Comments on: ICE & the Fort Dix Six; The ICE Princess Discovers “Morale”

By: longshanks

longshanks — Sat, 12 May 2007 19:58:54 +0000

It’s refreshing to see this discussion get focused on the real problems of ICE and away from the disgusting issue of “my legacy agency is better than your legacy agency”. There are deep problems in ICE and this forum is doing a great job of shining a light on those problmes.

By: steve ventry

steve ventry — Sat, 12 May 2007 12:25:45 +0000

Julie Myers, you are a ha-tey. I know you read this. If you ever get tired of that General guy…I know why you haven’t cut your hair. yeah, baby. Yeah!

By: steve ventry

steve ventry — Sat, 12 May 2007 12:11:48 +0000

Who came up with “I.C.E.”, anyway? That’s so corny. They should be something good, like “B.L.A.M.M.O.”.

By: FedUp

FedUp — Fri, 11 May 2007 13:26:16 +0000

On another note. Who cares wheather upper management is Legacy Customs or INS. It is obvious regarless where they came from they can’t do thier jobs! It’s not about which Legacy Agency screwed us up, it’s about the fact that we are screwed up. Hey I don’t care if the Asisstant Secretary was a former FBI Agent! If that person was doing the job I would follow him!As far as my cynicysim about DRO, it’s not that it won’t come but at the rate the agency runs that will be 10 years from now. I am just pointing out the in-effectiveness. We are barely doing things 4 years later that should have been done 4 years ago!
And as far as the Polo comment, I am just stating that we have much deeper issues than that, and yes you are right those little things make a difference. Believe it or not HQ has addressed some of the little things but hey still not working, clue? Actually code7 it is attitudes like yours that keep us divided and unable to stand up for ourselves. Talking about taking me out in to the woods and kicking my ass because I am self absorbed won’t solve the problem. So what I’m self absorbed. Hey you don’t have to like me but only together can we win like it or not. I respect your opinion so respect mine.

By: FedUp

FedUp — Fri, 11 May 2007 11:31:09 +0000

First off everybody is missing my point. I am not trying to bash DRO, I am not trying to bash legacy INS Agents, nor am I saying Legacy INS Agents didn’t investigate complex crime. Come on people what I am saying is look how big we are and how broad our autorities but yet we can’t get our act together! If OI, DRO, LINS, LUSCS had some direction maybe we could actually kick ass! Instead all I see is LINS vs LUSCS vs DRO. First problem is we need to be a team and obviously that is lacking!
First off to respond to a few people. Yes, I have helped DRO when there was only one detention officer available in the detention center and had no help in picking up a load. I even brought him back lunch after picking up the load because he couldn’t leave the center. My comments about DRO not helping is not a reflection on the workforce. It is a reflection of management. Just for the record those DRO officers that were sitting around watching us process aliens because they were specifically instructed not to because of internal fighting between OI and DRO. I will state for the record that every one of those DRO officers wanted to help and thought it was bullshit that they couldn’t. My point on bedspace was not because some lazy DRO guy didn’t want to do it. It was, in fact, because there was none. My point is that nobody in management cares nor do they do anything about it. They just let us continue to fight. They promise to pick up aliens when we have no bed space, etc. Oh and on the DRO wouldn’t come out. The actual reason they couldn’t is because it was on the weekend and they had run out of overtime funds and they were understaffed. My point exactly, nobody cares that DRO was understaffed in the office, the solution was Agents can go out and do it cause it doesn’t cost anything from our budget when 3 extra staff members could be hired for one Agent salary. As a matter of fact even as a LUSCS Agent I have considered jumping ship from OI to DRO because they actually tend to treat thier people better. As far as you catch em you clean em. I do for your information. If I am doing an investigation and take down a load of aliens, I clean them. The administrative processing I am talking about it the one alien stoped by the State Police that needs to picked up and processed. There is no investigation in that. Just like I said, you don’t send a detective to work traffic. Now if that detective does a traffic stop as a tool of an investigation of course he cleans the mess including writing the citation, but you don’t put the detective on the side of the road with a radar gun just because. It is usually becuase he is using that radar gun as a tool to further his investigation. It not that I am better tan you it’s that my Job Description IS DIFFERENT!
We used to experience the Agents think thier better syndrome in Legacy Customs with the Inspectors. Inspectors would think that we were arrogant assholes when we wouldn’t take a case. What these Inspectors failed to see was that the Federal Prosecuter would decline the case for whatever reason and we were the bearer of bad news. Many times I even fought with prosecuters over the phone to take a case because they had done an awesome job. Unfortunately, the only thing the Inspector heard was we aren’t prosecuting. Also, many Inspectors thought that all we were there for was to make demands and take credit. Truth is I was just doing my job. My job was different than the Inspectors and my demands were neccesary for the Investigation. We had two different functions. It wasn’t that I didn’t wan’t to prosecute, it wasn’t that I didn’t want to process the dope. It was that I myself had interviews and my paperwork also. I always told the Inspectors how awesome they were and to this day will take my hat off to them and I will never put myself above them, nor do I put myself above an IEA, Detention Officer, LINS Agent, etc….Some of my best friends work for DRO and hey I know that life may be better there but they have thier problems too. These problems aren’t Agents not wanting to do the work or DRO Officers not wanting to do the work it is poor management not even telling us what the work is!
Now the last poster had a point about demands way above DHS. Sad part is Immigration is a very misunderstood political issue. Many Congressmen don’t really understand the problem. They just get calls from constituants telling them they don’t like Juan in thier back yard. So what do they do they get outraged that nobody is going out to pick up Juan. Nobody educates them! Nobody educates the Public. Why do you think the FBI even though incompitent gets recognized as the elite of the elite. I’ll tell you why, because good or bad press thier in the press! People know what they do even if they fail and people are quickly educated as to why they failed. Sad part as when the people are educated they throw more money at the problem resulting in FBI getting more money! We can’t afford cars to pick up Juan and instead of somebody coming out in the press and showing the one car we do have that’s in the shop, they just stay quit and pretend there is no problem. Hey maybe if Joe Citizen was educated why we didn’t pick up Juan somebody would actually give us the resources to pick up Juan!
Lastly, I am getting tired of this 4 year degree thing! Yes I have a degree and I work with Agents that have degrees, have law degrees and have no degrees. Every single one of these is just as capable as I am to do the job. Problem is that nobody will tell us what the job is or how to do our job! Another thing I am tired of is all the in-fighting. We are just as self destructive as we are drowning. Maybe if we would all get together and fight the real problem like upper management maybe we could win. Any military person will tell you that keeping the emeny divided gives you an advantage! I may not like the Agent next to me because of personality issues, but you know what? He’s still my brother! When my ass is in a bind it’s my brother that’s gonna get me out wheather he likes me or not and I would do the same for him!
My issues is with upper management, DHS, congress and even the public! So quit taking apart every part of my post and acuse me of putting you down! You are still my brother regardless! Get off your ass and see that! Only then can we win!

By: Staypositive

Staypositive — Fri, 11 May 2007 09:27:03 +0000

I’m glad to see that the comments on this post are more positive and constructive than some earlier ones from last week. First of all, as a legacy INS Special Agent, I can tell you that USCS (something you already know) had a good reputation amongst the law enforcement community, including INS. In fact, I know a few INS agents who went over to become USCIS SA’s, primarily to get the GS-13 and do drug work. As INS agents, we knew that our reputation was not as highly considered, but that was primarily due to pre-conceived notions and certain media bias, and not based on fact. If you were to speak with prosecutors, agents and police officers that actually worked with INS agents, you would find a more positive impression. Unfortunately, some of these negative perceptions still exist with the public and are now associated with our LUSCS brethren with the ICE merger.
I think people should understand that LINS agents generally sympathize with the experience that LUSCS agents have had, with losing revenue streams, access to Customs Inspectors and the Air and Marine Operators as well as having to learn new skills. However, realistically, how much time is the average LUSCS agent spending on immigration work now? For the most part, the group structures remained the same. Unless you were assigned to a customs violation or immigration violation group outside of your previous experience, your duties by and large remained similar. It then boils down to the occasional duty call or assisting with a worksite/smuggling/fraud operation. This reflects a shift in national priorities. The fact is that DEA, FBI and a host of local law enforcement agencies do narcotics investigations (though in many circumstances, not as well as Customs did). Only ICE does criminal investigations of immigration law. Remember, this push is driven from the top (i.e. the administration), DHS is being asked to increase efforts in interior enforcement of immigration law without any additional resources. Without an increase, resources must be shifted. Hopefully, we will be getting those resources in the future to keep committed to both of the legacy missions of our agency. Until then, there will be occasional immigration work for the LUSCS agent to do.
As to the comments on this and other posts that LINS agents did not do complex investigations, many are misinformed. Pre-merger, roughly 25% of LINS Special Agents (not Immigration Enforcement Agents) worked administrative investigations of aliens who violated their status by breaking certain laws. The other agents worked alien smuggling, immigration benefit and document fraud, and employer investigations. And yes, these investigations involved money laundering, offshore bank accounts, international criminal organizations, Russian, Bulgarian and Asian organized crime, street gangs, corrupt government officials (both foreign and domestic), human trafficking and child prostitution to name a few. How do I know this? Because I led, conducted and participated in these sorts of investigations (and yes I, like most others, have a 4-year degree). Were there a lot of duty calls, arrests and administrative processing of aliens along the way? Yes, and it made it that much more challenging to do the job.
There are many things not in the control of agents that contribute to morale problems. One thing that isnít is how we treat and view one another. A mutual respect for the efforts, both past and present, of all our agents can help to make things better. In my opinion, this ship is being steered in this direction by necessities driven by those higher than ICE and DHS. All we can do now is make life livable on this ship while weíre still sailing, because we donít control the winds (i.e. public opinion, congressional pressure, media) and we certainly arenít doing the steering (i.e. the administration).
Stay positive, it canít hurt.

By: code7

code7 — Fri, 11 May 2007 07:15:59 +0000

Hey FedUp, when is the last time you offered to help DRO or gave them a “headsup” call you had x-amount of aliens and x-amount of juvies? I listened to two guys like you complain the whole time I was on detail about alien processing and now their office has completely moved alien processing over to DRO, so it’s happening despite your cynicism. You were quick to belittle my simple suggestions to improve morale because you are self-absorbed.
You make HQ a place people want to work and you get motivated people that want to reach out to the field and support them as well as improve the agency. DRO pays for a gym for their HQ personnel which translates to a healthier workforce. The little things add up.
But I know your type from my time in the Armed Forces, it wasn’t until the squad was ready to take you into the woods and beat you to an inch of you life that your poor attitude came around. There is simply no getting through to some guys that are chronically disrespectful.

By: DEPORTEM

DEPORTEM — Thu, 10 May 2007 19:36:22 +0000

That’s enough !!! I’ve tried to see the legacy customs point of view, but these guys are full of S**T.
All you do is cry that the chain of command is screwing you when the head of ICE’s IB is a LEGACY CUSTOMS agent. The head of ICE OPS is LEGACY CUSTOMS. There are NO LEGACY INS/DRO officers ANYWHERE IN THE CHAIN OF COMMAND, but DRO is the 500 LB gorilla in the room? Get off it. If the fish rots at the head, then maybe the once proud US Customs Service was already rotten when it came to ICE.
You complain about agents processing aliens??? If agents made the arrests then they should process the aliens. Ever heard of you catch it, you clean it? And before you say some crap about DRO not doing its job, oh wait, too late for that. Lets talk turkey here and look at some facts. DRO has removed more aliens at this point this year than it did at the same point last year. More aliens are being detained and removed than ever before and the numbers keep growing. You also complain that DRO isn’t getting more bedspace. Unless there’s a bottomless pit of funding, DRO CAN’T pay for more beds so maybe FEDUP can help the cause and put a few beds in his garage.
Here’s a little more for you. DRO HAS already picked up most of the duties IB was allegedly doing (CAP) and the numbers clearly show that DRO is identifying, apprehending and processing more CRIMINAL aliens than IB EVER DID.
By the way KCRAT, Maybe you shouldn’t process aliens because most processed by IB have to be REDONE correcttly by GS 5,7 and 9 IEAs. How is it that GS 1811 13 “Special Agents” can’t get it right?? After all, it’s obvious you think it’s a menial chore and should therefore be completed rather quickly by such highly trained “Special Agents”.
If IB is losing its authority or giving it away, then MAYBE these guys should go out and do something impressive, instead of sitting around crying about thier lot in life. When was the last time ICE IB made some waves and showed what they’re capable of?
Oh, before you get all huffy, I never said legacy INS should not have been disbanded and abolished. Everyone knows it was a dysfunctional agency with a bifucated chain of command.

By: John Cunningham

John Cunningham — Thu, 10 May 2007 14:32:55 +0000

Dam, disorder on the border.

By: kcrat

kcrat — Thu, 10 May 2007 12:20:07 +0000

DRO has the juice and we (Investigations) don’t. Our management is so very weak. They allow DRO to pick and choose what missions they will accomplish while we get stuck with the crap. Our management never says no to anybody and now we have become the “little bitches” to all. How in the world can DHS HQ allow their main investigative arm to become alien processing centers. We should never, ever, have to process an illegal alien. We should only be doing work that involves felony crimes not some civil administrative or midemeanor offense.