December 6, 2009, - 3:32 pm

Why is AirTran Lying About & Attacking Its Customers?: The Answers, Documents AirTran Won’t Provide

By Debbie Schlussel

Why is AirTran lying about its passengers?  And why would you believe the company that refuses to answer important questions or release documents to back up their claims?  The airline may face a lawsuit, which will finally uncover the proof that a dry run was conducted by 11 Muslim men, and it tried to force passengers to fly with them, anyway.

airtranlying

As readers know, on Thursday, I posted an e-mail written by Tedd J. Petruna, a NASA employee who was on AirTran Flight 297 from Atlanta to Houston on November 17th of this year.

He recounted in the e-mail–which he never intended to go public all around the internet–how 11 Middle Eastern men, likely Muslims, conducted what appeared to be a dry run.  He wrote the e-mail to dispute the lie AirTran told the press that the flight was canceled because a man refused to stop talking on his cell phone.  AirTran, by the way, has never released the name of that man.  (Gee, could it be because his name is Mohammed or Ahmed, and he isn’t  “a Spanish gentleman” as the airline claims?  Hey, Spanish, Muslim–“they all look alike,” right AirTran?)

Since then, I noted that Chaplain Dr. Keith A. Robinson has come forth to describe his experience as a passenger on that same flight, writing about it and giving an exclusive interview to nationally syndicated radio talk show host, Steve Gill.

And now, the long knives of AirTran public relations have come out.  AirTran told the Atlanta Urinal-Constipation, er . . . Journal-Constitution that Petruna was not on the flight (well, at least in this case, there’s no constipation, as the paper is full of crap).  And instantly, everyone believes AirTran, without seeing the official passenger manifest or any documentation whatsoever.  Everyone, except me and most of my readers (not the trolls who are now commenting).

Tedd Petruna tells me he was indeed on the flight and, afterward, wrote a long report for the airline about what happened on the flight.  He says he’s shocked that AirTran is saying the TSA officials were never there, that the airline has the guts to flat out deny what happened on that flight and in the aftermath.  There are plenty of records of his being on the flight and what happened, and he’s considering suing AirTran for lying about it and defaming him.  Petruna predicted he’d be attacked for telling the truth about what happened on Flight 297, and he was right.  But he told me that he never thought AirTran would lie and claim he wasn’t on the flight.

In my view, it’s not up to Tedd Petruna to prove  he was on the flight.  It’s AirTran’s move to prove he wasn’t.  Merely saying so (and lying) isn’t enough.

Since the AJC’s report of AirTran’s lie, er . . . “claim” that Petruna wasn’t on Flight 297 on November 17th, I’ve come under attack by mostly far-left blogs, like Daily Kos, Democratic Underground, Joshua Micah Marshall and his Talking Points Memo, and the like, and many of their blind follower trolls have posted attack comments on this site.  I find that extremely interesting, since this bunch is almost always anti-corporate America.  They never believe a single thing an American corporation says and always see the worst in them, including cover-ups (like this one).  But suddenly, when it will help lull us back into the pretense that Muslims are not a threat in America and aren’t constantly planning attacks on planes and elsewhere and testing the system, these far-lefties have put blind faith into the claims of AirTran, a corporation.

But I don’t put blind faith into it.  Sooner or later, crew members who left Flight 297 and refused to fly–and who had to be replaced–will come out and tell the truth about what happened on that flight.  Sooner or later, AirTran and the TSA will have to release documents detailing what happened on that flight, documents that will include Tedd Petruna’s report they asked him to write for them, and the agreement they forced him to sign agreeing not to speak about what happened to the media, while they “investigated” . . . and apparently while they engaged in character assassination of their customers.

But the fact is, you don’t cancel a flight, and a crew doesn’t refuse to fly a plane because a man refused to stop talking on his cell phone and was escorted off the plane.  That’s clearly not what happened on Flight 297.  Yet, that was the lie AirTran told the press.  And AirTran is consistent.  The airline is still lying.  And it’s story is constantly changing.  First, it was one man who wouldn’t get off his cellphone.  Now, it’s a whole group of “Spanish-speaking men.”  Uh-huh.  Sure.

Here are the questions and documents on which AirTran has yet to be forthcoming:

1)  A full passenger manifest for Flight 297 from November 17th:  I’d bet it will not only show that Tedd Petruna was on the flight, but also that at least 11 men with Middle-Eastern and/or Muslim names were on it, too.  I doubt there will be 11 “Spanish” names on the manifest.  If AirTran has privacy concerns about passenger’s names, the Airline certainly didn’t have any privacy concerns about releasing (and faking) Tedd Petruna’s itinerary without his premission.  Sorry, I don’t believe AirTran, and I’m not going to take it’s word that Petruna wasn’t on the flight.  I need to see the official manifest, with proof that it wasn’t doctored.

2)  The name of the passenger AirTran claims was the reason the flight was cancelled–the man who refused to stop talking on his cellphone.

3)  The names and contact information of all crew members of AirTran Flight 297 from November 17th, including the first crew that got off the plane and refused to fly.

4)  Why did AirTran cancel Flight 297 on November 17th, if it was just a problem of a man not talking on his cell phone?  Once he was escorted off the flight, why didn’t they fly?  AirTran officials were willing to suffer the cost of a canceled flight because a passenger wouldn’t get off his cell phone?  If you believe that, I have some land on the runway at Atlanta Hartsfield to sell you.

5)  Why did an entire flight crew, including the captain and co-pilot, get off the flight and refuse to fly, if it was merely a problem of a single passenger refusing to stop talking on his cellphone?  Why was the entire crew replaced?

Why would AirTran lie and resort to attacking its own passengers, its own customer base?  It’s all about money.  No-one wants to fly on an airline that tries to force its passengers to fly with terrorists, even after the crew has evacuated the plane and refuses to fly it.  No-one wants to fly on an airline that cares that little about the safety of its passengers.

And, now, no-one should want to fly on an airline that will go so far to cover it up–so far to pretend that a dry run or testing the system of some sort was not conducted on its flight by 11 Muslim passengers–that it will now attack its passengers and engage in the character assassination of its customers.

I certainly won’t.

***

By the way, Tedd Petruna admits that he is unsure of some details in his e-mail–and e-mail he never intended to be distributed throughout the internet, like that the men were Muslim as opposed to “Arabic.”  But how many men speaking Arabic, conducting a dry run of a hijacking are Christian Arabs?  In the old days, yes, there were Christian Arab terrorists, like George Habash of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, and others.  But today, they are either Muslims or working for them.  It was a fair assumption on Petruna’s part, and likely an accurate observation.

But we’ll never know for sure, until AirTran voluntarily releases the passenger manifest . . . or it comes out as part of discovery in a lawsuit, the latter of which is more likely to happen.

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270 Responses

I’ve twice tried to post the full 9 minute video interview and the posts dissappear. I have to disagree with Henry’s assessment. I thought the video was a little more damning and gave creedence to the story that this was far more than a cell phone issue. In fact, two of the Middle eastern men, the two that seemed to be causing the most trouble were apparently not let back on the airplane.

I’m sure another source for the video will be available but the full video is up on WSB’s site right now.

Go there, type Airtran 297 in their search box and you will find it.

Billy on December 7, 2009 at 6:31 pm

    Thanks Billy. After watching the video, some conclusions:

    1. This was no dry run.

    2. Emailers have embellished a tense incident, if they were even on the flight. (We know the Chaplain wasn’t on the flight during the incident; it is extremely difficult to believe that Petruna was. He swears to our two bloggers that he was, but we know he has a history of deceit now, so he is not to be believed.)

    3. Ms. Schlussel and Ms. Armstrong’s support of the emailers
    is troubling and disappointing.

    4. The blatant bigotry and hatred of fellow Americans displayed by a certain element of posters on this website is woefully distressing.

    Joel Miller on December 7, 2009 at 10:51 pm

Billy, nobody was taken off the plane.

cinesimon on December 7, 2009 at 6:37 pm

    cinesimon,

    Yes, they were. According to Mr. Brown, Two of the group, the two that appeared to be causing the most trouble were not re-boarded. In addition, there WAS an exodus of passengers who refused to continue on that flight. In addotion, Mr. Brown stated that despite his background in Law Enforcement and security and having flown for twenty years for business, he had never experienced anything aproaching that incident. In fact, he stated it was “Tension at the highest level”. He even prepared himself for intervening action should the need arise and rationalized that with fewer passengers, it would make it easier for him to deal with what ever entuality would follow.

    As I said, something happened and the truth is falling between Petruna’s obvious embellishment, which Brown addresses, and AirTran’s version.

    AirTran has some explaining to do.

    Billy on December 7, 2009 at 6:53 pm

      Billy: “according to mr Brown”.
      That really is how easily you guys accept conspiracy theories, isn’t it?

      cinesimon on December 7, 2009 at 7:35 pm

        Mr. Brown isn’t on trial but go ahead, give it your best shot, try to impeach his remarks.

        Billy on December 8, 2009 at 12:44 am

BWAHAHAHAAH. B. Brown was on WSB. He said it was probably not a dry run though he could not rule it out. He said there were some millin around with cellphones. Not one word confirming that Petruna did what he did. Brown’s own words “probably not the best citizens to fly”. Which is pretty much what i said about the group and Airtran without resorting to outright lies ala Petruna or hyperbole ala Laura Armstrong.

It is obvious Airtran clumsily handled this situation. Anfd it is obvious the group of passengers were idiots who I wouldn’t have minded seeing get kicked off. It is also obvious Petruna was a liar who probably passed by the lobby as the deplaned passengers were complaining(Remember, Petruna missed the original connection and couldn’t have been on the plane during the original boarding).

Ralph on December 7, 2009 at 6:40 pm

It’s very good entertainment though Clancy – if rather sad, and a strong indicator that these guys have already bean betaen by the terrorists – fear and delusion has them by the clangers, and seems to be informing their entire existence.
These guys really do seem to think they’re in the middle of an episode of 24, and they’re th diligen journalist that uncovers a massive conspiracy to allow attacks on America.
Liberals, the media, coporations, Obama o= f course! – police, TSA, FBI, everyone but two of the passengers on this particular flight(of course Petruna WAS on the flight, I am the person who doctored the manifest!!! It was MMEEE!) – we’re ALL involved in trying to allow more terrorist attacks on our country.
Because apparently we hate our country, and they – the only patriots in America – are the only ones who can stop the Muslims in time!

cinesimon on December 7, 2009 at 6:46 pm

Laura Armstrong is a two bit hack. Here is proof. Look at her comment “Call it what you will, but the man never intended that mail to go public. Not everyone is a skilled writer or trained watcher even, so I can excuse his slight exageration on two small points (the attire and the porn, which he told me another passenger mentioned after they de-planed).”

Once again you LIE. You very well know that is not the only stuff I was referring to. Even if you assume he never meant for it go public, why the hell would he LIE about confronting the terrorists? Why would he LIE about some big Texan havingt his back? It doesnt take a SKILLED writer to write the truth. Not to mention, why did he LIE that he was on the plane during the incident?

I saw the interview by Brown on WSB. As I have already conceded, Airtran has some explaining to do. But I wouldnt chalk it up to more than arrogant SOBs from whatever part of the world they are from. Maybe if you actually traveled, you would occasionally see this. Why didn’t Brown mention just one word in favor of the internet rumor? All he said was a Maybe about the suspicion something was fishy.

Brown is clearly a guy who seems like a very conservative ready to push a law enforcement agenda. his demeanor seemed ready to push the rumor if he could. But he didn’t. Because it did not happen. His account is more damning the other lady’s. Yet, even he could not say a word about a couple of Texan heroes taking matters into their own hands.

Ralph on December 7, 2009 at 6:52 pm

Lets set some trolls on fire.

TO TRULY LOVE AMERICA IS TO TRULY HATE ISLAM!!!
TO TRULY LOVE AMERICA IS TO TRULY HATE ISLAM!!!
TO TRULY LOVE AMERICA IS TO TRULY HATE ISLAM!!!
TO TRULY LOVE AMERICA IS TO TRULY HATE ISLAM!!!

CaliforniaScreaming on December 7, 2009 at 6:54 pm

    Cal Republic,

    Like anyone would care that a poster with the flag of an independent Californa had advice on what “loving America” means.

    If you’re a secessionist, then you don’t get to tell us patriots what loving America means. We know loving America means holding to our ideals, welcoming immigrants, and not believing cockamamie rumors on the internet. You doofus.

    ryanwc on December 7, 2009 at 7:07 pm

    TO TRULY LOVE AMERICA IS TO TEABAG YOUR NEIGHBOR. TO TRULY LOVE AMERICA IS TO TEABAG YOUR NEIGHBOR. TO TRULY LOVE AMERICA IS TO TEABAG YOUR NEIGHBOR. TO TRULY LOVE AMERICA IS TO TEABAG YOUR NEIGHBOR.

    TrollinforJesus on December 7, 2009 at 7:18 pm

    It’s rather obvious the troll here is you, kiddo…

    cinesimon on December 7, 2009 at 8:18 pm

Video links won’t post

According to Mr. Brown, Two of the group, the two that appeared to be causing the most trouble were not re-boarded. In addition, there WAS an exodus of passengers who refused to continue on that flight. In addotion, Mr. Brown stated that despite his background in Law Enforcement and security and having flown for twenty years for business, he had never experienced anything aproaching that incident. In fact, he stated it was “Tension at the highest level”. He even prepared himself for intervening action should the need arise and rationalized that with fewer passengers, it would make it easier for him to deal with what ever entuality would follow.

As I said, something happened and the truth is falling between Petruna’s obvious embellishment, which Brown addresses, and AirTran’s version.

AirTran has some explaining to do.

Billy on December 7, 2009 at 6:53 pm

Billy on December 7, 2009 at 6:56 pm

It’s pretty obvious what happened here. There was a guy who wouldn’t turn off his CAMERA, as the woman interviewed by the Atlanta Journal makes clear. He was traveling with a group of Latinos, as the AirTran account makes clear.

The chaplain was not on board when the incident occurred, and never heard them speaking. He does assert that the men were wearing normal clothes.

Petrunas’s flight from Akron only arrived after the incident happened. He was able to board the plane because it was late, but he wasn’t on at the time of the incident either.

So what has happened is somebody who didn’t really know what happened and couldn’t tell spoken Spanish from Arabic got off the flight, passed along a faulty account of the incident to both Petrunas and Robinson. Petrunas made up a grandiose story with himself at the center, and has now admitted that it didn’t really happen that way. Robinson in good faith thought he was helping confirm something, but he hadn’t actually seen anything.

ryanwc on December 7, 2009 at 7:02 pm

The only reporting Laura did accurately was quote that Brown guy. he pretty much says similar stuff to WSB. But Laura keeps exposing herself to be nothing more than a partisan shill that would make even FOX NEWS blush with her constant defense of Petruna and minimizing of lies that he said. If she actually stuck to interviewing Brown, then concentrate to see if other passengers actually shared his opinion of the problem passengers, then she may have had a good story. She stupidly overreaches with her inexplicable characterization of Petruna’s email details as mere slight exaggerations of two points and chalking the inaccuracies to his intention of wanting to keep it quiet. Explain to me this: why the hell did he not say that when the right wing sites were hailing his emal? He sure seemed to enjoy the public attention until the proper questions were asked of him, at which point, he retreated into the whole “i just want to remain private” excuse. Until then, his own buddy was giving up his private info. You think he would have done that were it not for Petruna’s consent?

And like i said, private or not, Petruna’s lies were inexcusable. I would be pissed if my buddy took an opinion made from a conversation he had in the airport with some passenger and extrapolated into some Jack Bauer like adventure on the flight?

Ralph on December 7, 2009 at 7:02 pm

I’m with Debbie. So many inconsistencies, so many changes in the MSM and AirTran stories. After the Cair involvement in the last “Shieks On A Plane” fiasco, ‘Everybody’ has to cover their butt. This ‘testing’ may finally work out for the ‘testers’. Then the MSM and their Leftie’s will blame GWB for not doing whatever it is They can’t control.

Hell they even blame Huck for letting the cop massacre guy walk 9 years ago. My story source is AV and say’s his contacts confirm, but will sure as hell not testify publicly. I posted the same story, with Lot’s of questions.

Truth is rare today since the Ten Commandments were forcibly removed from our lives, to be replaced with quasi-sharia law liberalism. What do you expect from a country that has the highest concentration of Lawyers per ca-pita, than the entire world. Hell they even run the country.

Blogengeezer on December 7, 2009 at 7:05 pm

    LOVE IT.
    You guys really still believe that somehow the Ten Comandments were forceably removed from your lives, despite being plastered all over the place?

    Your desperation to become victims only makes you look very sad, very bored, and very – twisted, I guess…

    cinesimon on December 7, 2009 at 7:53 pm

Could you please pull on my schlong?

haha on December 7, 2009 at 7:10 pm

Conservative schmucks are so desperate for the perks of power, they will say absolutely anything.
There’s no place for reality in the turgid conservative imagination.
Run with this story, Li’ Debbie! Run as fast as your legs will carry you! Yes! GOP, FTW!

labradog on December 7, 2009 at 7:25 pm

“Tension of hte highest order” is a purely a subjective opinion by a guy who is probably made of the same cloth as those who see danger in everything. I find it interesting that some non tough lady felt no danger on the same flight. But at least Brown did not lie. While I can be skeptical of his assessment of the situation and the people involved, I actually commend him for not making up lies to back up his assessment of the situation. He said what he thinks and he may truly believe it, and for all know, he may actually be correct on it. I have no way of telling until we can interview more than the two passengers with slightly diverging assessments of the situation.

But this is what we know for sure. Petruna lied , lied and lied some more in his email. Laura Armstrong ridiculously bypassed a possible interesting story by not focusing merely on Brown and finding other passengers, but she has to repeatedly defend a liar like Petruna.

As I said, no one really comes out of this looking good except for the two passengers with slightly diverging opinions.

Ralph on December 7, 2009 at 7:27 pm

    Ralph,

    Yes that’s true but it is somewhat LESS SUBJECTIVE when the individual making the assessment is used to tense situations by trade.

    I agree, and always have that Petruna did no favors except to bring this to light. Beyond that, I have no confidence in his story. Apparently neither does Mr. Brown. In fact he said there was no reason to embellish this story, the evnts themselves were of enough concern, it needed no embellishment.

    Hopefully, this interview will convince others to come foreward. This certainly is not the end of this.

    Someone better start explaing who the two were that wre not re-boarded and why.

    Also, I noticed Brown stating that a few oilots got on board to “deadhead”. I realize that pilots do that all the time. I wonder if in this case that may have been intentional should anything transpire. I also would like to think that in addition to those pilots, Air Marshalls were boarded to continue that flight. If they weren’t it would seem to be a gross vacancy of responsibilty given the circumstances.

    Billy on December 7, 2009 at 7:44 pm

      Billy you give this Brown chap a hell of a lot of credit.
      Have you ever heard of him before this ‘incident’?
      Have you seen his qualifications, know of his history? From anybody else but him?
      It looks to me that now Petruna has been discredited, you’ve simply decided to place your faith in another person with no proof he was there, and no credentials other than what and who he says he is – therefore, you’re again welcoming with open arms anything an anonymous person says, and you have no way of knowing he’s telling the truth.
      If this were a real issue, we would have heard from other passengers – and you can be sure that TSA or whomever would be bragging about busting a dry run.

      Unless you somehow believe there really is a massive conspiracy under way to allow more attacks.

      I’m sorry, but it remains glaringly obvious that this is just another wolf cry from a bunch of people the terrorists have already beaten.

      cinesimon on December 7, 2009 at 8:07 pm

        cinesimon,

        If you read my posts from DAY ONE forward, it will be evident that I had no faith in Petruna’s credibility. That is a big reason I have been on the fence waiting for the other shoe to drop. It now has with Brown. It’s time now to follow the steps and see where this leads. Obviously, AirTran has lied, so this story is not without an air of mystery as to why.

        I would think that contrary to another poster who belives it is good PR to keep things like this quiet, I’d be more inclinded to book a flight with an airline that at least had the decency to tell the truth when an obvious incident occurs.

        Brown’s Law enforcement and subsequent security background certainly, in theory would make him a better witness that a lay person and I think the interview bore that out. Additionally, his company is contracted through DHS so a certain amount of vetting had to have alraedy occured there.

        The point is, what Mr. Brown is stating is that AirTran is lying. I believe him. I think we need more people to come forward and drag the rest of the lying performers in this circus out of the woodwork. Unless of course you feel want to continue to trust PC driven security agenda from a company that has been proven to lie on more than one occasion.

        Billy on December 7, 2009 at 8:30 pm

          BROWN is the other shoe?
          Please.

          cinesimon on December 7, 2009 at 8:31 pm

LOL. Blaming Huckabee for paroling someone who turned out to be really bad? You mean like blaming Dukakis for Willie Horton? Seems to be SOP in American political circles.

How about get Mr. Brown to show proof of payment for a ticket on that flight. He’s the one making the claim, he should be putting up the proof!

Eric von Kleist on December 7, 2009 at 7:31 pm

Liberals and Muslims hate America because it was founded by Christian men. Wow America has lasted so long and is so prosperous. Islam represents everything that is opposite of freedom. America is freedom. Islam is repression.
Loving freedom is hating repression therefore loving American ideals is hating the repression of Islam.

Islam believes in a theocracy. I can’t believe liberals want an Islamic theocracy to spite other Americans. Immigrants are people not a religion. Religion is a faith based belief. Islam is a belief that has no connection to the foundations of our country. What inalienable right was directed from Islam? Did our founding fathers look to the Koran to inspire their belief in humanity? America at is concept was not enlightened by the Koran or Islam. The liberals hate our Constitution. The liberals want a communal government that takes away our individual rights. Liberals despise free speech, free thought, private property, right to arm ourselves and the pursuit of happiness. The common enemy of liberals and Muslims are the free Americans and the people who want to be free from government. The unholy alliance of Muslims and liberals have cast their die.

Love to ship off a few liberals to Iran, Somalia, Afghanistan and let them rail on the tolerance to imams and mullahs like they do conservatives, republicans or hell even Ralph Nader. I can see the beheadings of literal bleeding hearts crying as the sword strikes their necks. You cowards deserve to be in the same jail cells as militant Islamist fundamentalists. There would be one group standing and it wont be the ones with big mouths and no spines.

CaliforniaScreaming on December 7, 2009 at 8:04 pm

    What a childish, bigoted, utterly ignorant rant.
    Grow up.

    You’re fooling nobody, kiddo.

    cinesimon on December 7, 2009 at 8:09 pm

    So, CalScreaming, I take it you’d like to repeal the 1st Amendment, or maybe put a shiny little asterik next to the whole Freedom of Religion part?

    It is amazing to see how, well, *flexible* the more authoritarian wing of the Right Wing can be when it comes to the Constitution. Thought you guys revered that document?

    John Coltrane on December 8, 2009 at 12:40 pm

America was founded by some men who were not Christians, like…Thomas Jefferson, among others.

I find that when I learn a little better the truth of history, I better understand the reality of the present world. I recommend it highly.

Eric von Kleist on December 7, 2009 at 8:12 pm

Of course, if you want to make a hero of someone who admitted to assaulting an airline employee because he was mad, go ahead.

Eric von Kleist on December 7, 2009 at 8:13 pm

Oh, the inalienable right you mention springs not from Christianity, but from God (according to Jefferson.) Although the Constitution doesn’t mention God, but says that We, the people seek the blessings of …. Liberty.

Of course, that is just historical fact…

Eric von Kleist on December 7, 2009 at 8:16 pm

    Come on, Eeric – I’m sure you know better than that!
    The kid is obviously aware that this laughable ‘wolf cry'(as it so obviously is) of a story is, like many of their paranoid delusions, a dead duck.
    Therefore, the default position is to go postal and rant like the rapture is in the morning. After eggs and bacon, of course.

    I find it hilarious that they have chosen to use the founding fathers for their argument, when the founding fathers’ writings make it perfectly clear that they’re diests, and that christianity is not their driving force – creating a free and fair society is.

    These right wing ‘chistians’ have made it perfectly clear that they want America to be ruled by their religious values alone – the values that they have interpreted by their religion. Just the thing that the child above criticizes middle eastern countries for.

    And I find it exponentially hilarious(really!) when they accuse Muslims of living in a theocracies, when that is EXACTLY what they want for America – a christian one. They really do not see that the more extreme and agressive they become, the closer they are to becoming the christian Taliban.

    Of course the fact that outside of the middle east there are hundreds of millions of muslims living in democratic countries, and have no interest in sharia law goes WAY over their heads…!

    cinesimon on December 7, 2009 at 8:30 pm

“…the agreement they forced him to sign…”

How? Did the airline PR guys threaten to crush his testicles? ROTF…

Nancy Irving on December 7, 2009 at 8:26 pm

I’m a conservative, and my peepee gets hard when I think about the brown dirty mooslims humpin’ my fat, illiterate wife.

They make me watch!

EL HEFE on December 7, 2009 at 8:48 pm

Funny, I read the good Dr.’s account of the story, and he wasn’t even on the flight when the alleged incident occurred. So much for an eyewitness account.

LewScannon on December 7, 2009 at 9:01 pm

Has it occured to anybody that the reson for AirTran to play this down is the percied loss of revenue. Consider this. If AirTran HAD said there was a security issue with a group of middle easterners on one of their flights just DAYS before Thansgiving, one of, if not the most traveled holiday of the year, what would the impact be on the plans of those considering hopping on a plane for some old fashioned grandma’s turkey? Addiitionally, with the Christmas and New year’s holiday up there in terms of air travel, it may explain their continued denials and insincere assurances.

What would the financial impact be on AirTran, the airlines in general AND the economy this holiday season?

Perhaps they are simply more concerned with the bottom line than they are telling us the truth.

Billy on December 7, 2009 at 9:02 pm

I realize now why liberals love terrorists. They want the same thing. Destruction of the USA.

Gman on December 7, 2009 at 9:03 pm

    Yeah, that’s it Gman.
    Right on the mark, mister patriot. Mister macho of the century.
    It’s not that this story is so obviously a made up by a wannabe hero, and the only reason you paranoid nuts believe it’s true is because the terrorists have already beaten you – hence the constant fear you all obviously live by – no, it’s not that.
    Yes, indeed, you’re right: anyone who thinks this story is not credible is a liberal, and we all hate America.
    No need for evidence anymore: if you don’t believe this bizarre, unfounded conspiracy theory with piles of proof disproving the story and the word of two people saying it’s true – one person not even being on the flight, then you hate America.
    Pure and simple.
    The only people who love America, by default MUST agree with every paraoid conspiracy theory made up by any terrified, unimaginative wannabe hero. Period.
    If we don;’t believe any old story, no matter how obviously made up it is, you’re right: we hate America, and want to see it burn.

    UUUGGG UGG UHHRRRGG

    cinesimon on December 7, 2009 at 11:13 pm

      “UUUGGG UGG UHHRRRGG” Did you make a mess on your keyboard after saying that?

      sorrow01 on December 8, 2009 at 1:21 am

A few years ago, a college classmate of mine forwarded me an email written by an African American graduate student at our school. He claimed to have been mistreated by the owner of a local copy center, and the clear implication was that such treatment was a result of his race.

I was skeptical when I read the piece — while it wasn’t clear exactly what had happened, even by his own account the guy came across as a bit of a jerk who was spoiling for a fight. I told my friend (who’s Asian) and she said, “I could totally see the owner acting that way.” “Yeah,” I said, “but do you know that’s what actually happened in this particular case?”

And when I checked out the website of our school paper and saw that student groups were organizing protests outside of the copy center, I realized that, to the protesters, my question was irrelevant. Whether this guy was telling the truth, the fact that what he was saying COULD be true was enough for them.

I think that’s what’s going on here. I have no idea what actually happened on that plane, although I’m skeptical of Petruna’s account, for a couple reasons — one, it’s a lot harder to fake a passenger manifest than it is to lie about being on a plane, and two, what possible reason would terrorists have for conducting a “dry run” where they drew lots of attention to themselves before the plane had even taken off — but it’s clear that, for some people, the “inherent truth” illustrated by Petruna’s story means that he must be defended at all costs, details be damned.

Anyway, I don’t think it’s particularly important to spend a lot of time discussing this story now — the full details will eventually emerge, if they haven’t already — but I would urge everyone to ask themselves what they actually know to be true, as opposed to what they would like to be true.

Zorro for the Common Good on December 7, 2009 at 9:08 pm

I dunno. The thing that utterly convinced me was “infidel dog!” Cuz I know terra-ists really talk like that. I saw it in a movie.

Sheesh.

Sometimes the dumb is so painfully obvious, it’s hard to believe even a wingnut would credit it. But the proof is right here.

DrBB on December 7, 2009 at 10:19 pm

    “Sometimes the dumb is so painfully obvious, it’s hard to believe even a wingnut would credit it. But the proof is right here.”

    Since you are the cause, why don’t you leave so we won’t be polluted.

    Facts Life on December 7, 2009 at 10:23 pm

Debbie,
Another credible passenger, Brent c. Brown cooberated the story to Laura Armtrong. Try to talk to him. Many of us at Delta are very curious about this story.
Jason

Jason on December 7, 2009 at 10:25 pm

    ‘many of ut Delta’.
    Classic!
    But I’m at NORAD, and we’re laughing at anyone who thinks this is true!
    REALLY!

    cinesimon on December 7, 2009 at 10:52 pm

      cineson,

      Funny, but that the same mindset that got us into trouble the last time. hilarious.

      Billy on December 7, 2009 at 10:55 pm

        Billy the more you cry wolf, the more damage you do.
        Grow up.
        This is so obviously a fake story.
        Most reasonable people would expect some actual evidence – not hysterically invent a conspiracy theory on one person’s say-so.

        Alex Jones eat your heart out!

        cinesimon on December 7, 2009 at 11:19 pm

          How can anyone in their right mind say this is a fake story? It is seasoned with lies but we are beginning to get past the outer layers and into the meat of what actually happened. Explain to me why most of the passenfers got off that airplane. Explain to me why a profit driven/time critical US company decided to turn that flight into a liability. Expalin to me why the Captain, the pilot in command, decided he had a security threat on board. Explain to me why two middle eastern men who were creating havoc on board that flight out of a group of eleven middle easterners who, to a lesser extent, contributed to the chaos were not re-boarded. Expalin to me why the flight attendants were in tears. Explain to me why an ex law enforcement official and 20 year owner of a security firm that holds contracts with the Department of Homeland Security categorized this incident as “tension at the highest level” and “like nothing he has experienced before in 20 nyears of flying for business. Explain to me the impeachable qualities of Mr. Brown’s charachter and finally. explain to me how all of this doesn’t add up to being a story.

          Billy on December 7, 2009 at 11:34 pm

      If you are at NORAD, the Air Force really does have a prize in its midst. Is the concept of terrorists hijacking or doing a dry run with a plane a unique concept for you? It has been going on for decades. You might just try looking outside of the Daily Kos, Howard Zinn, and Noam Chomsky for your information about the world.

      sorrow01 on December 8, 2009 at 1:09 am

I have stayed out of this fray until now. I’m with Debbie and those who have supported her on this story. But what I have to report is to solve the mystery of why on this story and the three other previous posts have had so many comments that consists of people who want to believe that this story is false, including trolls and others who hate this website, DS, and her supporters, since–as several posters have pointed out–if this story isn’t true, then just relax, let the truth play itself out, and then watch the story go away. Of course, if this story is true–and I believe it is–, well then…. In turns out that the reason why at least most–if not all–of these trolls/haters have come here is because of the Daily Kos. See this link:

http://tinyurl.com/ykecs5z

After reading the article, I would skip to the final comment, which will give a clue on how I found out about this. It’s the best comment on the thread and it’s by Stewart III. If by the time this is read, there’s no comment by Stewart III, then it has been deleted.

JeffE on December 7, 2009 at 10:57 pm

fake conspiracy theory to be laughed at

stewart 111 on December 7, 2009 at 11:22 pm

How sure of this are you, stewart 111? I think that I’m on very solid ground in saying that this story has not fully played itself out yet. Are you so sure that this story is a “fake conspiracy theory to be laughed at” that you will refuse to accept delivery of any new information that conflicts with this worldview? Or are you open to at least the possibility that this story is real based on sny future information?

JeffE on December 7, 2009 at 11:44 pm

    Jeff — “I think that I’m on very solid ground in saying that this story has not fully played itself out yet.”

    What future information do you believe will be forthcoming, Jeff? The only thing I can think of is Petruna coming clean, admitting he wasn’t on the flight and admitting that he concocted a tall tale based on a questionable incident. But I doubt he’ll do that. He’s unhinged. Debbie Schlussel surely won’t be running any retractions, I can tell you that.

    AirTran’s story has been consistent throughout and they claim that the case is closed.

    Radical Islam remains a heinous threat, a fact which, for some reason or other, conservatives think liberals don’t realize. And the threat of radical Islam will continue to be trivialized by those who see evil in situations where there simply is none.

    Joel Miller on December 8, 2009 at 8:24 am

      Hi Joel:

      Joel — I’m sorry that I’m responding to you so late–been busy at work. I hope that you see this.

      In response to when I wrote — “I think that I’m on very solid ground in saying that this story has not fully played itself out yet.”

      Joel–“What future information do you believe will be forthcoming, Jeff? The only thing I can think of is Petruna coming clean, admitting he wasn’t on the flight and admitting that he concocted a tall tale based on a questionable incident.”

      First, on current information, there’s still Chaplan Dr. Keith A. Robinson whose story is more solid that Petruna’s.

      As for future information, AirTran still has to release the documents. There also are other passengers on the plane that might give their account(s) of what happened on the plane.

      Joel–“AirTran’s story has been consistent throughout and they claim that the case is closed.”

      There’s still the possibility that they are saying this to avoid a lawsuit.

      Joel–“Radical Islam remains a heinous threat, a fact which, for some reason or other, conservatives think liberals don’t realize. And the threat of radical Islam will continue to be trivialized by those who see evil in situations where there simply is none.”

      So you are saying that you are a liberal who recognizes the threat of Radical Islam. I’m glad to hear of it. Unfortunately, I haven’t seen too many do so, even though they should.

      JeffE on December 8, 2009 at 8:00 pm

What you’ve uncovered, Debbie, is incontrovertable proof of the very real plot by liberal bloggers and commercial airlines to stage another 9/11 or worse. We all know what the consequences could be. They must be stopped at any cost. ANY COST>

Doug Preston on December 8, 2009 at 1:29 am

By the way, the burden of proof is 100% on Petruna. He’s the one making the extraordinary claim. Therefore he’s the one who needs to pony up evidence. Like say, a scan of the boarding pass for the flight he says he was on?

If you come to me and say “the sky is green”, it’s not my responsibility to show that it’s blue.

It’s YOUR responsibility to PROVE it’s green.

Sean on December 8, 2009 at 3:50 am

I found Tedd’s facebook page (it’s pretty strange) and emailed him concerning the above entry (show us your boarding pass). He sent my a completely unhinged rant. The guy’s got a screw loose. Sorry Debbie.

Steve on December 8, 2009 at 5:13 am

That whole “I have my boarding pass” thing bothers me. Petruna missed flight 297 so of course he would still have his boarding pass — they didn’t take it from him because he didn’t board that flight. He would have been issued a second boarding pass for the next flight.

The fact that he claims to “have my boarding pass” for flight 297 would tend to indicate that he’s lying.

The Chaplain’s story is mostly hearsay, and if you read the statement attributed to him, he tends toward self-inflation and xenophobia — it seems that he’s just miffed that the airline staff didn’t recognize that since he is a Senior Chaplain people must let him “assist” in any given situation.

Eric von Kleist on December 8, 2009 at 6:38 am

I sincerely suggest that you see your physician and get your medications adjusted!

ottercliff on December 8, 2009 at 8:02 am

Your thoughts on the FAA dismissing the whole story, Debbie?

Are they in on the conspiracy too?

Cecil P. on December 8, 2009 at 8:12 am

    Cecil,

    The FAA has their own image to protect. They need to project the impression they have have everything under control.

    Billy on December 8, 2009 at 10:46 am

Just a quick question. If proof is being demanded of the airline, can’t we ask Mr. Petruna to provide the stub from his ticket, proof that he purchased a ticket for the flight he was allegedly on, or perhaps some kind of physical evidence from him that would back up his assertion that he was on the plane? It should be easier to get than a flight manifest, which would undoubtedly be decried as false since the supporters of Mr. Petruna are dead-set on the notion that the airline is involved in a cover-up.

Ms. Schlussel, since you support Mr. Petruna whole-heartedly I assume he must have shared with you such evidence. I can’t believe you would go forth publicly without vetting a source thoroughly considering your very public profile and work in the past. If he has shared a stub from his ticket, credit card receipts for the transaction, or some other evidence that supports his side of the story, please ask him if it would be alright for you to post it here. It would only lend credibility to his story and gain him support in the fight ahead. Thank you!

MantisBot on December 8, 2009 at 8:23 am

    Mantis Bot,

    Forget Petruna. Make believe he doesn’t even exist. He is irrelevant at this point in the story. All Petruna serves to do at this point is to allow the skeptics to focus on his version knowing full well it’s full of exaferations and outright lies.

    Move on, Petruna’s like a little kid with an over active imagination.

    Look at this story with a fresh set of eyes based on last night’s credible account by Brent C Brown on WSBTV Atlanta.

    With some edit’s, I’ll repost an excerpt of my earlier comment………….

    “Explain to me why most of the passengers got off that airplane. Explain to me why a profit driven/time critical US company decided to turn that flight into a liability. Profit into Loss. Expalin to me why the Captain, the pilot in command, decided he had a security threat on board. Explain to me why two middle eastern men who were creating havoc on board that flight out of a group of eleven middle easterners who, to a lesser extent, contributed to the chaos were not re-boarded. Expalin to me why the flight attendants were in tears. Explain to me why an ex law enforcement official and 20 year owner of a security firm that holds contracts with the Department of Homeland Security categorized this incident as “tension at the highest level” and “like nothing he has experienced before in 20 nyears of flying for business. Explain to me the impeachable qualities of Mr. Brown’s charachter and finally. explain to me how all of this doesn’t add up to being a viable, disturbing story.”

    Billy on December 8, 2009 at 9:05 am

“How can anyone in their right mind say this is a fake story? It is seasoned with lies but we are beginning to get past the outer layers and into the meat of what actually happened. Explain to me why most of the passenfers got off that airplane. Explain to me why a profit driven/time critical US company decided to turn that flight into a liability. Expalin to me why the Captain, the pilot in command, decided he had a security threat on board. Explain to me why two middle eastern men who were creating havoc on board that flight out of a group of eleven middle easterners who, to a lesser extent, contributed to the chaos were not re-boarded. Expalin to me why the flight attendants were in tears. Explain to me why an ex law enforcement official and 20 year owner of a security firm that holds contracts with the Department of Homeland Security categorized this incident as “tension at the highest level” and “like nothing he has experienced before in 20 nyears of flying for business. Explain to me the impeachable qualities of Mr. Brown’s charachter and finally. explain to me how all of this doesn’t add up to being a story.

Billy on December 7, 2009 at 11:34 pm”

Let’s check the questions one by one:

1. Most of the passengers stayed on the plane – according to reports that aren’t “seasoned with lies”, some 60 passengers stayed on and 12 chose to take a different flight.

2. AirTran delayed the flight because the captain came back to the gate – once that happened, the airline didn’t have any choice but to turn the flight into a “liability”.

3. The captain came back to the gate because one of his flight attendants and one of the passengers were disagreeing about the use of an electronic device. If the flight attendant tells the captain she has a problem, any captain would do the same.

4. The ethnicity of the gentlemen in question is in dispute – the lie-seasoned report has them as Middle-Eastern, but another witness says they were Latino (and the airline isn’t saying). Debbie snidely comments in one of her posts that we liberals are the ones to whom Middle-Easterners and Latinos all look alike, but the it could just as easily be said of the person who submitted the original account that you admit was “seasoned with lies”, as well as the good Reverend’s. Two of the group weren’t put back on that plane because it took off while the airline was still investigating the incident – but they did get on a later AirTran flight.

5. The flight attendants may have been in tears because their supervisor had dressed them down for over-reacting to a situation that caused a large flight delay and the need to replace the crew. Since none of the reports give a reason why, that seems to me to be as likely as them being overly upset about an incident that Petruna is now admitting wasn’t nearly as spectacular as his first lie-filled report stated.

6. I don’t know Mr. Brown’s credentials, but a guy who gets paid for security services would stand to gain additional business if the public were whipped into a panic and DHS/TSA needed to be seen doing something to address the perceived risk.

There are simple explanations for all your points. I don’t know if they’re correct or not, but there they are for your consideration. You should ask yourself, though – at what point does something “seasoned with lies” become, in your view, too “seasoned” to be believable?

Michael Sheridan on December 8, 2009 at 9:22 am

    M S,

    Based on your reply it isw doubtfull that you watched Brown’s interview and, if you did, I would encourage you to gto back and watch it again.

    Rebutting Your points

    1 Brown called it an exodus

    2 And your point is ? The fact is, the plane was turned around.

    3. The captain came back because of a “security issue”

    4. Brown tesitified they WERE middle eastern

    5. So it’s not plausible to you that the flight attendants may have been upset out of fear of what was transpiring?

    6. That is simplistic and foolish. Mr. Brown would have jeopordized his contract with DHS had he embellished or lied.

    Billy on December 8, 2009 at 9:50 am

I happen to KNOW what happened, because I live in Florida, and Florida is closer to Atlanta than Wasilla, Alaska is to Russia. I can see Atlanta from here!

Tom on December 8, 2009 at 9:42 am

And Billy, even if you trust every tiny thing Brown said, even he says outright in the interview that the unnamed guy(who we know is Petruna) didn’t need to embellish stuff. And he outright said that if Petruna walked down the aisle , he would have seen it since he was in Business Class near the Economy section. And not only did he not commit to saying he wasn’t sure it was a dry run, he actually went one step further and said it was UNLIKELY. He did say it was a security concern because of such tension. He did mention it was probably someone who lacks the capability to behave in a proper manner when pressed by the reporter to explain what was the idea behind the misbehavior. It is clear that the only thing Petruna got right was there was some kind of behavioral [problem with a few passengers and there was concern on part of the flight attendants. EVERYTHING ELSE PETRUNA SAID WAS A LIE EVEN IF YOU GO BY BROWN’S ACCOUNT. Laura Armstrong is an embarrassment to journalism when she still supports Petruna when by now, it is pretty obvious he made it all up based on one little fact he heard about second hand. If all Laura did was explore the Brown angle and said Petruna was a lying piece of shit who was trying to mislead his friends and relatives and didn’t discourage the spread of the email when his own buddy vouched for him foolishly(so much for his excuse that he did not want this to go national), Laura would have a decent story to explore further.

I personally would like to hear further from the other passenger quoted by the AJC and ask her why she did not notice the same exact thing Brown noticed(though both accounts are not as divergent as Petruna’s is from the others).

Ralph on December 8, 2009 at 10:38 am

    Ralph,

    For the umpteenth time I’ve said all along that Petruna was lying. More recently I’ve said forget about Petruna completly, the newly reported facts of the incident have moved way beyond that and warrant a fresh and continued look.

    Billy on December 8, 2009 at 11:02 am

So let me make sure I have this right:

The airline and the newspaper are lying because they’re not fessing up to the story that you believe and apparently “know” to be true, despite having any tangible evidence or first hand experience.

They’re lying.

You’re not.

Neither of you have any more or less proof than the other.

Got it.

Oh, and if Muslim men in traditional dress were doing a “dry run”, wouldn’t they be a bit smarter than to refuse to turn off their cell phone? Or if it was a dry run, don’t you think they’d refrain from running up and down the aisle.

Oh, sorry, you KNOW it to be true, so we don’t need things like proof or logic. Got it.

Jake on December 8, 2009 at 10:40 am

    Jake,

    The muslim men in traditional dress statement has already been discredited. All you do by repeating it is perpetuate a lie. Focus on the credible witnesses in this case and be a little more open minded to the fact that an incident happened serious enough to return to the gate and from there, eventually, you may “get it”.

    Billy on December 8, 2009 at 10:53 am

    “Oh, and if Muslim men in traditional dress were doing a “dry run”, wouldn’t they be a bit smarter than to refuse to turn off their cell phone? Or if it was a dry run, don’t you think they’d refrain from running up and down the aisle.”

    Jake,

    These men were smart. They acted out to see how the crew would react. Running up and down the aisles to flush out the Air Marshals. It was a recon, a probe if you will to test the security procedures, hence, dry run. The traditional dress was ingenious…ie racial profiling and lawsuit for anyone who dared to try and stop them. They hold all the Aces. Don’t be a defeatist.

    Spyglass on December 8, 2009 at 12:01 pm

One of these days you’ll see a sikh man in a turban texting his girlfriend, and finally have that opportunity to tackle a mooslim of your own!

JB on December 8, 2009 at 10:46 am

    JB _ Hey moron, Sikhs are NOT muslims.

    Jarhead on December 8, 2009 at 11:52 am

So the guy who wrote the lies that started this admits he made it up, but since it feeds into right wing xenophobia you really want to make it true even though you know it isn’t.
Terrorists don’t do “dry runs”. That’s a ridiculous thought to begin with.

Nobody on December 8, 2009 at 11:03 am

    So terrorists don’t photograph their targets or probe security procedures or plan for an attack in any organized manner? They just push it through without any prior planning huh? I wish you were right, it would be much easier to take them out.

    Spyglass on December 8, 2009 at 12:06 pm

“AirTran told the Atlanta Urinal-Constipation, er . . . Journal-Constitution”

Did you honestly write that? Aren’t you embarrassed? I mean, you are trying to be taken seriously, right?

“(well, at least in this case, there’s no constipation, as the paper is full of crap)”

If someone is constipated, aren’t they full of crap? Isn’t constipation a condition marked by a difficulty in moving one’s bowels? You can’t even get your little juvenile digs right!

Dave on December 8, 2009 at 11:09 am

Billy, I see you’re still one of the few left claiming this was still a terrorist dry run. Or at least, you refuse to concede that Tedd Petruna error-riddled lying racist letter was the genesis for all of this.

A simple question then: What would it take for you to put down your sword and admit the whole this is a big nothing? Seriously, what would you need to see or hear? Let me know and I will work towards that goal. You seem like a reasonable man, so let’s reason this out.

Also, to the poster who basically said “if it’s a lie, leave it alone and it will go away.” Um, actually, it won’t. There will still be a lrge percentage of right wing nuts who will believe this account as gospel.

Case in point? Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii.
-He has a birth certificate that the FBI and State Dept. would verify as authentic.
-The Sec of State in Hawaii states it is genuine.
-BOTH major newspapers in Honolulu [Advertiser and Star-Bulletin] published birth announcement in 1961.

And yet, almost half of Republicans either believe he is an undocumented immigrant or are not sure. HALF?!? Oh, also, it has spawned several men who wanted ot assasinate the President because he is an enemy of the state. Ridiculous. And EACH of you who push the LIE that Obama is not an American will have blood on your hands.

So don’t tell me to just ignore the lie. That’s like ignoring a bully. What you do, is walk right up to him and punch him square in the nose. And that’s why the commenters here ridiculing those of you who still believe this crap remain here amongst you. Such as myself

Henry on December 8, 2009 at 11:22 am

    Henry,

    I have never staed that I thought this was a “dry run”. In fact, I believe the term “dry run” is often mis-stated and over used. It’s an attempt to use cookie cutter, catch phrase terminology to categorize events that bear cam no resemblance to one another.

    In context, this didn’t have to have been a “dry run”. It may have been one of many concerted attempts to desensitize airline crews when incidints like this occur. Enough incidents like these would serve to lower the level concern and reactions of cabin and flight crews, eventually passing incidents like this off as “abnoxious passengers with language barriers”, which we seem to be already doing.

    However, as a poster in another thread pointed out days ago, they have already terrorized passengers. So, it’s possible if that was their intent, they succeeded.

    What do I need?

    I need to hear from the Captain, First Officer, cabin crew, Gate Agents and passengers. I also want to know who these people were especially the backgraunds of the two that were not re-boarded. If airlines can summarily divulge the information about an non-compliant unruly drunk on the way back from Vegas, then I would asssume thaey can offer up more information regarding an incident at this level.

    Billy on December 8, 2009 at 12:13 pm

Billy I should have been clearer. I was initially going to respond to your comment, but got caught up in responding to Laura’s comment. I should have named her earlier in my reply.

Ralph on December 8, 2009 at 11:31 am

So, then, Debbie was fooled by Tedd Petruna’s lies? Or did she repeat them knowing they were lies — is she in cahoots with him on spreading lies?

And why doesn’t she retract her support for his statement is she knows he did lie? Her comments about him exaggerating a little aren’t quite enough. She should issue a full scale retraction — if she’s interested in TRUTH.

Of course, if she is not interested in truth, she can go on disseminating and defending the lies of Mr. Petruna, such as the lie that he was even on that flight.

Why doesn’t Debbie revisit this and fess up that she was hornswaggled by Mr. Petruna? Embarrassed? Or is the publicity too good to resist.

Responsible journalists do that kind of thing when they find out they’ve put out bad information.

Eric von Kleist on December 8, 2009 at 11:39 am

Billy, that’s quite a list for you to expect; especially since the burden of proof that something more nefarious took place seems to be on you. I mean, seriously. Without Tedd Petruna’s original email this is a NON STORY. Am I right?

I imagine these guys on the plane were less than civil about the instructions form the flight attendant. I’ve seen some pretty obnoxious behavior when I travelled for business. Usually, this was out of Business Class, but whatever.

So you ask for all this evidence to squash what is already a debunked story [No full atire, no shouts of infidel dog, no burly Texan, no throwing anyone off the plane ["you WILL go now!"], no agents on board the plane, no double screened baggage and lastly [my favorite] no porno tapes. [Plus, no Tedd on the plane!]

So why are WE the ones who are expected to shoot this down? Seems counter intuitive. You seem to be the sanest one on here, so your reply carries more weight.

–Also, just indulge me because I’m curious. Do you believe Barack Obama is a citizen?

Henry on December 8, 2009 at 12:35 pm

    Thank you for your kind remarks. though I won’t be comfortable with your assigned title.

    The fact is, the INCIDENT is not debunked. Parts of the STORY were. There still remains, and in fact a growing body of evidence which supports more nefarious behavior than the airline will lead us to believe. I think it incumbant on us to get at the truth. Had we not been satisfied with the 93 WTC bombing investigative closure 9/11 may have been averted. Had we not been satisfied with the investigation of the Rabbi (Meir Kahane ?) in NY, the 93 WTC bombing itself may hay been averted ergo 9/11. As simplistic as it sounds, it really comes down to the tired “connect the dots” cliche. We cannot afford to miss them anymore. The cost of complacency is far too great.

    Billy on December 8, 2009 at 1:08 pm

Just saw this reported from the interview last night….

Brown told WSBTV that Tedd Petruna … is “living in a fantasy world.” (Petruna now has his own hash tag on Twitter.)

Got that? Brown says Petruna is living in a “fantasy world.”

Can we close this case now?

Henry on December 8, 2009 at 1:01 pm

    Henry,

    So you will give full faith and credit to Brown’s statement that Petruna is in a fantasy world and ignore his statements that there were middle eastern men aboard who went beyond non-compliant and that the tension was of the highest level and it was like nothing he experienced in 20 years? No, I don’t think it’s appropriate to close the case on this. Petruna yes, the case, no.

    Billy on December 8, 2009 at 1:13 pm

Billy, you very well know that Brown said VERY CLEARLY that it was unlikely a dry run and that he attributed it to ill mannered passengers who dont know how to behave. What we do know is there was a tense situation that was not right. Sure, Brown did not rule it out, but he did say “UNLIKELY”. Are we going to be paranoid based on every small probability? Tense moments can arise from unpleasant situations that have nothing to do with terrorism. This could have been one of those. Hell, if you ever traveled in europe, you will find that the term “ugly american” is unfair because there are ugly arabs who behave bad in groups and other nationalities too. I traveled on Emirates once and some of the Arabs were rude as hell. What’s not to say this wasn’t the same case here? Just a bunch of jerks with attitude? And if they were to plan a dry run, I would expect something better than that where they would conspicuously show up in groups that act like they know each other.

Ralph on December 8, 2009 at 1:25 pm

    Ralph,

    If I hear the term “dry run” one more time I think I’m going to puke. This was a security issue. It may or may not have had ominous alterior motives as it’s catalyst. We don’t knwo, but we HAVE TO find out.

    I had a middle eastern guy cut in front of me when I was in line at the bakery the other day. He was obnoxious. I didn’t pay much attention to it, after all, I didn’t think he was about to hijack the bagel tray. If he did, I’d think it’d more funny than anything else. Airplanes are not bagels, and hijacking one certainly isn’t funny, and yes. I would pay closer attention.

    Billy on December 8, 2009 at 1:37 pm

You know if terrorists really wanted to create havoc, there is nothing stopping a bunch of those crazies buying semis at gunshows and spraying ammo at people in crowded downtowns in many cities on the same day. Hell, that’s what they did in India. You can’t live life worrying about every freaking incident. Man up.

Ralph on December 8, 2009 at 1:34 pm

    Ralph,

    Or like Fort Hood perhaps?

    Billy on December 8, 2009 at 1:39 pm

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