April 21, 2006, - 6:57 pm

Islamic Imperialist Workout Comes to America: Your Gym is Now Allah’s Gym

By Debbie Schlussel
**** UPDATE: AMMERAH SAIDI, MUSLIM WOMAN PROTESTING THE GYM, DEFENDS ISLAMIC TERRORISTS, WON’T DENOUNCE HOMICIDE BOMBINGS, SAYS, “IF IT [AMERICA] FALLS TO ISLAM, SO BE IT.” (SEE COMMENTS.) ****
Americans must decide if we are going to willingly accept the imposition of others’ religious rules, or if we will stand up for our own freedoms while we still have them.
That is the debate at the center of America’s culture clash with Mid-Easterners who want to impose their Islamist mores on us–on our own shores. At least, it would be a debate, if we would not just immediately fold every time there is a challenge.
The latest example of the debate is Fitness USA gyms. The nationwide chain of gyms (headquartered in suburban Detroit) is the latest target of Islamic extremists who insist it impose separate workout days or a partition of the sexes.
But the name of the company is clearly “Fitness USA,” not “Allah’s Gym USA.” A Detroit Free Press article, written by resident Islamist reporter Niraj Warikoo, does not tell the whole story, but it is useful as background (if you can read between the lines).

fitnessusamuslimwomen.jpgjanefondasworkout.jpg

Time for Arrwa Mogalli, Ammerah Saidi to Find Hanoi Jane Useful

(Left Photo by DAVID P. GILKEY/Detroit Free Press)

While it is true that many Fitness USA gyms have separate workout days for men and women, not all do. The gym’s Lincoln Park facility has an expensive cardio area that it has chosen to make available to both sexes at all times. Muslim women who do not want to work out at Fitness USA’s Dearborn crowded facility are now demanding that nearby Lincoln Park use gender-specific workout days or impose a partition in the middle of the cardio area. It cannot be done and would prevent non-Muslims who want to work out every day from doing so to meet the Muslim women’s self-centered demands.
The Muslim women told Detroit’s local NBC affiliate newscast that if Fitness USA does NOT meet their demands, they will stage pickets in front of the gym. While Dearborn is a 30% Arab city (not 30% Muslim), Lincoln Park is much less so. Yet these women want to impose their will on the gym. They signed an agreement that did not provide for their stringent single-sex sequestration requirements. As an attorney who has represented gyms, I know well that there is a reason the gym has a contract (which the Muslim women apparently don’t think applies to them–they’re special).
There is a solution for the Muslim women, which they selfishly refuse to utilize. They can work out completely covered up (as a Muslim woman at my gym does) just as they are covered up when they walk in front of men on the street and elsewhere. But they don’t want to. The women showed a the local Detroit TV newscast that they prefer to wear their skimpy, immodest work-out clothes, which they do not want to wear in front of men. And, hey, they don’t want to get their hijab headscarves all sweaty. They would rather impose their will on the gym than discomfort themselves in the least.
Too bad. That’s not the way America works. This is a private business that has chosen its own rules, not Islam’s rules.
If there is such a large market for what these women want, then the free market will take care of it–perhaps they can open their own single-sex or partitioned gym. Or they can always rent an old Hanoi Jane Fonda video and work out (well, Fonda actually binged and purged and pretended to work out) at home.
But that’s not, unfortunately, what many American Muslims want. They want to impose their will on the rest of us. And therein lies the problem of which the gym story is just a microcosmic example. We can either be a free country or an Islamic one, not both. They want the latter.
Ready to wear your burqa to the gym and have the cardio room partitioned? Me neither. Tough luck for those who want it that way for all of us. For now.
**** UPDATE, 04/26/06Weakness USA: Dhimmi Gym Caves to Extremist Muslim Chicks

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82 Responses

Completely outlandish. I’m surprised the worms at CAIR aren’t hounding the Gym on behalf of these narcissists. Oh, that’s right….They’re too damn busy trying to wiggle out of the frivolous lawsuits the initiate.
OH, YES, CAIR IS VERY INVOLVED IN THIS AND IS DEFINITELY HOUNDING THE GYM ON THEIR BEHALF. READ THE FREE PRESS ARTICLE TO WHICH I LINKED.
DEBBIE SCHLUSSEL

DCWatson on April 21, 2006 at 8:39 pm

Debbie you seriously need to run for mayor of that city. Someone needs to set things straight out there and kick out the Ottoman menace before it’s too late.

KnightoftheImpaler on April 22, 2006 at 1:16 pm

…Debbie…has KnightoftheImpaler identified your destiny?
Here in Mississauga, Ontario we have Mayor Hazel who has been mayor forever, and once called a local Chritsian church “on the carpet” for being non-Christian!
EVERYBODY loves and RESPECTS her. She doesn’t mince her words…never felt the need toñ
IMAGINE if you were mayor of Detroit! WELL, that would be something!!

The Canadien on April 22, 2006 at 2:25 pm

Hey Muslim womenÖstart your own gyms.
I must apologize BUT your religion is a freakshow HIGHLIGHTED, PUNCTUATED by your SILLY GARB that alerts REASONABLE MINDS to your OBVIOUS OPPRESSION.
What the FAILURE of ISLAM will always be is thatÖit INSISTS on REVERSING GENESIS.
Man was made in the image of GodÖbut ISLAM insists on RECREATING God in the image of Mohammed, and THATÖIS NOT who HE has revealed Himself to be!
And therefore ISLAM is DOOMED to failure! And not because I say it.
BUT because, ISLAM is fighting AGAINST GOD.
I S L A M is fighting against God.
Did you HEAR that?
ISLAM continues to commit that UNFORGIVABLE SIN of TRYING to REVERSE GENESIS! And GOD takes that PERSONALLY!
SureÖthere may be a few victories here and there, BUT these will be short lived and ONLY serve the purpose of alerting and quickening the faithful AND THE PAGANS who will AGAIN rally against ISLAM~ If victories happenÖit is only because HE allowed them to happen.
I simply have to laugh at all the BLOGS that ACTUALLY BELIEVE Islam will overrun the world! Sorry folksÖit just isnít in the cards!
BUT SOMEÖare without HOPEÖand WITHOUT GOD~~
I am just sorry that I am so busy for the next three years because as an EVANGELICAL CATHOLICÖI see the ìfields of Islamî are ripe for the harvest and conversion to Catholicism, and I canít be a part of it right now.
SURPRISE BULLETIN: In the religious war against Islam in the pastÖhelp originated from Cluny, France. But THIS TIME, I believe it will be the EVANGELICAL CATHOLICS from Catholic America who will overturn the tide. So many of them converts from the Evangelical churches and saints alreadyÖONCE they turn their attention to CONVERTING the sons of IshmaelÖhello Rome and GOOD-BYE Mecca~
And in the clash against CATHOLICISMÖin that fight of CHRIST JESUS vs. MohammedÖ
JESUS will win everytime!
Make NO MISTAKE about it.
In the meantime, THE JEWS are the ìpet targetî of the ìGANGS and COWARDS of ISLAMî who are the ìNEW NAZISî by the wayÖand EVERY RESPONSIBLE GOVERNMENT needs to ensure the PROTECTION of the JEWISH PEOPLE against the MUSLIM ìHate and Murderî machine that is everywhere!
EUROPE is again falling back into its cowardice of the recent pastÖfearful of Islam this timeÖjust like it was Nazi Germany! Except for maybe Poland, or ItalyÖEUROPE again is trembling and ìwettingî itself, and canít rise to face the Muslim challenge!
Hopefully and prayerfully, POPE BENEDICT who has taken a special interest in Lapsi Europa can bring conversion and change in the same dramatic way he did when he was Pope John Paul IIís right hand manÖand help EUROPE find its CHRISTIAN soul.
ONE MAN or WOMAN canÖturn everything around.

The Canadien on April 22, 2006 at 2:28 pm

This latest demand upon America is yet another example of how INTOLERANT Islam and Muslims are. It illustrates further that Islam is NOT a religion of peace, as our spineless politicians and the LIBS love to parrot.
It reveals the mindset of these “people” – they come to a Judeo-Christian country and they want to impose Islam on all of us. Gee, you’d think that Islam required its mindless followers to obliterate every other religion on the face of the Earth through intimidation and force. Oh, wait a minute…I almost forgot…Islam DOES require its mindless followers to do just that!
These women have no real intention of working out. Their true goal is the incremental imposition of Sharia Law upon all of us (funny thing how, under Sharia Law, women are treated as pure shit – but…that’s Islam…and where there’s Islam, there’s nothing but pure acceptance of a belief invented by a demon-obsessed pedophile).
If these people can require a town to publicly broadcast their Muzlim call to prayer 5 times a day, and they have the money to build mosques all over the place, then they can certainly garner the will and the resources to build their own facility to cater to the Mozlum women’s need to workout. They don’t give a rat’s ass about “separate but equal” status as far as gyms go. Their demands are nothing but the incrementalization of their plan to turn America into a repressive Islamic theocracy, pure and simple.
I’d like to see what would happen if we demanded that Islamic countries (especially Saudi Arabia) allow Christians and Jews to openly worship in churches and temples.

Thee_Bruno on April 22, 2006 at 3:37 pm

Not that I’ve met them all, but I’ve never seen an attractive Muslim woman. I say three cheers for the hijab.

shleppy on April 22, 2006 at 8:40 pm

Nothing stops Muslims from setting up their own gyms.
That is what Orthodox Jews do.

len613 on April 22, 2006 at 10:00 pm

With all due respect, Miss Schlussel, you should be ashamed of yourself. As a Catholic and a Christian, it is still blatently obvious to me that your words are empty and filled with hate, and that your bias is so strong that you will never be able to see beyond your own small views. Which is why, in all likelihood, my post will never see the light of day. Let me tell you one thing, one of the “Muslim extremists” you have pictured happens to be a friend of mine, and excuse me, but I believe that phrase is usually associated with advocates of violence, namely terrorists, which the Muslim religion itself does NOT promote. If want of a safe place to exercise, free from the prying eyes of a bigoted public including the likes of you is “extreme”, then God help us, lady. I happen to know quite a few “hot-headed, red-blooded American women” who wouldn’t mind being able to exercise in a setting separate from men. It’s not only an issue of religion, but an issue of comfort. I’m truly sorry that your “self-centered” rants and cheer-me-ups even exist within view of the public eye for no other purpose than to bloat your ego. My friend is not an extremist, the Muslim population as a whole are not extremists. As with anyone else, they simply ask for a bit of respect which is not hard to give by any means, especially not coming from those of sound mind and heart. I know that they have my respect, in both religion and in the decision in this case. God bless you, Debbie Schlussel. You’ll need all the help you can get.

ofthemany on April 22, 2006 at 10:35 pm

‘ofthemany’ writes: “Let me tell you one thing, one of the “Muslim extremists” you have pictured happens to be a friend of mine, and excuse me, but I believe that phrase is usually associated with advocates of violence, namely terrorists, which the Muslim religion itself does NOT promote.”
How’s life being a dhimmi? And you are outrageously ignorant of islam to boot. Get yer head out of yer Bible and pick up a koran sometime. Then get back to me with that ‘islam is a religion of peace’ crap.

Rick on April 23, 2006 at 6:32 am

To ofthebrainless,
“…one of the “Muslim extremists” you have pictured happens to be a friend of mine..”
Point out which one. You can’t because you’re a lying fraud.
“…violence, namely terrorists, which the Muslim religion itself does NOT promote.”
Oh, really?! The Qur’ an is chock full of violence, deception, and murder as it instructs its followers to do to the Infidels.
“If want of a safe place to exercise, free from the prying eyes of a bigoted public including the likes of you is “extreme”, then God help us, lady.”
Don’t you really mean to say, “Allah help us”?
Besides, this has nothing to do with privacy or workouts – it has everything to do with imposing Sharia Law upon us one step at a time.
“…the Muslim population as a whole are not extremists.”
I’m still waiting to hear from all those “moderate” Mosloms to condemn all those “extremist” Mosloms who supposedly hijacked Islam and who constantly murder innocent people on a daily basis around the globe. Their silence is deafening.
“…they simply ask for a bit of respect which is not hard to give by any means…”
Why is that we have to respect Moslums, but Moslums never have any respect for the laws of the country in which they live? And I’m not just talking about the U.S. We see it in the U.K., France, The Netherlands, etc.
Why don’t you just come out and admit that you’re a Muslum? You’re like the typical caller to a talk radio show who claims to be a Republican, then proceeds to slam them.
You’re no Christian. You sound more like a propaganda sheet from CAIR-less.

Thee_Bruno on April 23, 2006 at 10:05 am

Rick,
How many Muslims have you met personally? Have you watched them pray? Listened to them speak about their religion? Don’t just go by what the media tells you. If you condemn Islam for violence, you should really read the Bible and tell me how peaceable we are.
Et tu Bruno?
I was baptised, made my first communion, was confirmed, and haven’t been to mass in three years. Believe me, I’m Catholic. And my friend would be Ammerah, the person at the forefront of the picture. Were she not my friend, the post would still stand.
“Don’t you really mean to say, “Allah help us”?”
Why wouldn’t I say Allah help us? You do know the worship the same God as we do, right?
“it has everything to do with imposing Sharia Law upon us one step at a time.”
And you would know this because you asked, right? I mean you must know for sure since you’re making such a bold, confident accusation.
“I’m still waiting to hear from all those “moderate” Mosloms to condemn all those “extremist” Mosloms who supposedly hijacked Islam and who constantly murder innocent people on a daily basis around the globe. Their silence is deafening.”
Do you honestly think the American media wants to hear from moderate Muslims? I happened upon one such case on the news a year or two back and they grilled the poor trying to get out of everything you’re saying about Islam. Why would anyone want to put themselves through that?
“Why is that we have to respect Moslums, but Moslums never have any respect for the laws of the country in which they live?”
Yes, because the Muslims of Indonesia, Pakistan, and India all live on self-made reservations, earn their money from human trafficing and spend their days in a pile of pejote. They must follow the laws if they live there or else they very well wouldn’t. Now you mention France who treat the Muslims as second class citizens, and made laws to strip away integral parts of their religion. Who is not respecting whose laws exactly?
“Why don’t you just come out and admit that you’re a Muslum? You’re like the typical caller to a talk radio show who claims to be a Republican, then proceeds to slam them.”
That would be because I’m not a Muslim. One who can’t fix on one proper spelling, probably knows… oh I’m sure tons, about the religion itself. Need I recite a Hail Mary? I don’t remember my Act of Contrition, sue me. And yes, registered Republican, but sense and sympathy have taught me better. Buy a dictionary, look them up, because you’re lacking in both. Else, give your bedside picture of Hitler a kiss and whisper a “Sieg Heil” with a flourish into his one-dimensional ear and live with the fact that ignorance like yours is killing people. Thanks for your time.

ofthemany on April 23, 2006 at 1:37 pm

ofthebrainless vomited:
“I was baptised, made my first communion, was confirmed…”
also,
“Why wouldn’t I say Allah help us? You do know the worship the same God as we do, right? ”
You’re no Christian. You’re a Moslem. If you were a Christian you would KNOW that the Muslum Allah is NOT the God of Judaism and Christianity. Allah is NOT the God of Abraham and the Father of Jesus – although the Moslems want to fool us into thinking so. And THAT is why I know you’re just a typically deceptive Muslum.
If Allah is the God of Jews and Christians, then answer this: How can Allah be the God of Jews and Christians when he, via Mohammad, said that Jesus is not the Son of God?
How can, at one time, God the Father (the true God of Revelation) say that He sent His only Son to Earth to save mankind only to reverse Himself and say the opposite 600 years later when Mohammad invented Allah? How can God be telling the truth about Jesus only to lie about it later when it suits the needs of a murdering lunatic called Mohammad when he invents a religion only to empower and enrich himself? You see, our TRUE God, unlike Allah, doesn’t lie in order to deceive anyone about who He is. Jews and Christians have the Freedom of Will to believe or not believe, to observe or not observe. You, on the other hand are forbidden to question ANYTHING about Islam. You either accept it or die. That’s SOME religion.
The God of the Jews and Christians is the God of REVELATION. God revealed Himself to Moses and to the rest of us through Jesus. Islam has no god of revelation. Allah did not reveal himself to anyone except what was conjured up in Mohammad’s sick mind.
You’re really an ass. A typical Moslem ass who can’t defend his faith in a religion that prescribes death and servitude for all those who don’t believe in Allah.
LMFAO!
“And you would know this because you asked, right? I mean you must know for sure since you’re making such a bold, confident accusation. ”
I know this because Islam is committed to total world domination. I know this because I understand what Islam is all about. I know this because I’ve read your Qur’ an. I’m also a student of history and I know all about the barbarian Moslum conquests throughout time and of the forced conversion of those who were conquered from Christianity and Judaism to Islam – hence the later Crusades.
“I happened upon one such case on the news a year or two back and they grilled the poor trying to get out of everything you’re saying about Islam. Why would anyone want to put themselves through that?”
Oh, really, Ahkmed?! What case was that?
“Yes, because the Muslims of Indonesia, Pakistan, and India all live on self-made reservations, earn their money from human trafficing and spend their days in a pile of pejote. They must follow the laws if they live there or else they very well wouldn’t. Now you mention France who treat the Muslims as second class citizens, and made laws to strip away integral parts of their religion. Who is not respecting whose laws exactly?”
Here we go again. You’re a typical Moslem blaming EVERYONE else for the plight of Moslems except Muzlems themselves. I can understand your anger, Ahkmed, but let’s face reality – any plight that Moslems have to endure is the fault of Moslems themselves. What else can you expect from a religion that forces its followers to exist in the 7th century?
Muslims “…earn their money from human trafficing…”
Finally…I’m glad to hear that a Muslim actually admits that other Moslems engage in modern-day slavery. It’s a start, Ahkmed.
“That would be because I’m not a Muslim.”
Yes you are, Ahkmed.
“Need I recite a Hail Mary? I don’t remember my Act of Contrition…”
Anyone can “google” it and post it here. Why don’t you instead post a copy of the prayer rug on the floor of your tenement apartment where you live?
“And yes, registered Republican, but sense and sympathy have taught me better.”
Are you saying that sense and sympathy have taught you to be a better and a more noble person than to be a Republican? Then why be a “registered Republican” in the first place? Why not switch to the “Islam-Loving” Democrat Party?
“Buy a dictionary, look them up, because you’re lacking in both.”
What?!
“Else, give your bedside picture of Hitler a kiss and whisper a “Sieg Heil” with a flourish into his one-dimensional ear and live with the fact that ignorance like yours is killing people.”
What?!
“Thanks for your time.”
No thanks for wasting my time.
BTW, the only Fascists who are alive today are;
1. LIBERALS,
2. Moslums.

Thee_Bruno on April 23, 2006 at 2:59 pm

thee-bruno(HATE BOY):typing away

danny on April 23, 2006 at 3:14 pm

Thank you for completely proving my point, Bruno. I appreciate it. Sincerely. And in case you don’t know, Facism is on the right side of the political spectrum, communism is on the left. :) And yes, you’re right, I could very easily google Catholicism, but why bother, Tammy Faye, when there are people like you preaching the Lord’s hate. I get all the religion I need right here. Muslims are looking for world domination? Now why would they want to do that? It’s not like they’re facing religious persecution by the Christians… oops. :) You see, Bruno, I’m not angry with you. In fact, I feel nothing but pity. Since you’re so fond of google, why don’t you try “Muslims for peace.” Your so-called silent sect is right there, buddy. But that’s not what you look for, is it? You look for bias, find flaw, to suit your own idea of the world. So Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet, I don’t happen to agree. That doesn’t mean we don’t worship the same God. Do Catholics and Protestants not worship the same God because we believe that purgatory exists and they don’t? No one ever questioned that. The Jews don’t believe Jesus was the Messiah either, do they not worship the same God? Your elaborate tale has plot holes, Bruno. Keep digging.

ofthemany on April 23, 2006 at 3:24 pm

Hi,
My name is Ammerah and I’m a card carrying Muslim extremist. Thanks Bruno for foiling my whole plan. You’ve exposed my Catholic-posing friend Jace for all he’s worth and my evil plot to take over the US has evaporated right before my eyes…that is if I could see with my eyes. It’s kinda hard with the burqa blocking out all visible light.
Are you happy now? Have I served your confirmation-bias well? Can you go to sleep well now knowing that you’ve correctly pigeon-holed every single Muslim in the world? I think that’s all any ignorant individual in the world needs–to be proven right in all their prejudices.
Now, my name is Ammerah MOHAMED Saidi and Jace is in fact my CATHOLIC, REPUBLICAN friend. Oops, there goes one Islamic stereotype…us Mozlooms can’t possibly speak to men! Us Mozlooms can’t possibly speak for that matter.
The facts of the current matter has nothing to do with Islam. The gym reneged on a verbal promise they made that both Muslim AND non-Muslim (yes, CHRISTIAN) women are fighting since our privacy and money has quickly gone to waste or disappeared. Oh man! There goes another stereotype! Muslims and Christians can NEVER work together since the pits of hell would burn both for unifying under One God–the former would be burned for being ignorant of Jesus and the latter for mingling with such blasphemous ignorance. Oh, but wait, Mozlooms DOOOO recognize Jesus and we actually value him so much that we couldn’t imagine that God would allow him to be killed and humiliated. Now there’s a top five Prophet if I’ve ever heard of one…and in ISLAM nonetheless! SHOCKER!
You know, I could say a lot more, but I think I’d just be wasting my breath…and I need to bite my tongue since I am of the weaker sex. Oh, and who said that? That’s right…a Christian THEOLOGIAN. I need to save my breath for my punishment when I give birth. Cause who labeled women as the punished sex? Oh that’s right…the BIBLE.
I’ve got to have dinner with my family. Yep, and another stereotype bites the dust. We have family values. Aww shucks.
AMMERAH,
IF THAT IS REALLY YOU, THE WOMAN FROM THE STORY ON FITNESS USA, I HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS FOR YOU:
1) WHAT IS YOUR VIEW OF HAMAS? WILL YOU CONDEMN IT AND ITS HOMICIDE BOMBINGS OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS? HOW ABOUT HEZBOLLAH, WHICH MURDERED HUNDREDS OF AMERICANS AND IS TRAINING INSURGENTS IN IRAQ?
2) DO YOU RECOGNIZE ISRAEL’S RIGHT TO EXIST?
3) DO YOU CONDEMN ANTI-SEMITISM (AGAINST JEWS)?
4) DO YOU BELIEVE AMERICA SHOULD REMAIN A SECULAR DEMOCRACY?
5) DO YOU BELIEVE A PRIVATE BUSINESS HAS THE RIGHT TO SET ITS OWN RULES AND NOT BE ENCROACHED UPON BY A SPECIFIC RELIGION?
WOULD LOVE TO GET YOUR FRANK AND HONEST ANSWERS TO THESE QUESTIONS.
DEBBIE SCHLUSSEL

Akhmed-ee on April 23, 2006 at 3:57 pm

AKHMED-ee; you trying to talk of religion in a moral context is a joke. alah.be praised

danny on April 23, 2006 at 4:22 pm

Danny,
In Philosophy, they call that the fallacy of Ignoring the Issue. Making a statement that goes around the main point with little to no proof. Why don’t you qualify that a bit for us.

ofthemany on April 23, 2006 at 4:28 pm

all you teach is hate of the west .go ahead ,after the next 9/11 you and your’s won’t want to be in public bragging about allah and the U.S.A. rights not given you. you won’t be at a gym (Mrs. Akhmed-ee) relaxing working out as a g-d fearing americsn,i bet you hate that term don’t you.I bet your kids are all messed up.

danny on April 23, 2006 at 4:36 pm

in philosophy you can call it any thing you want.But Allah,+ the folks that follow allah don’t care for a philosophy lesson any more.

danny on April 23, 2006 at 5:07 pm

Danny,
lol… I know I hate the term Americsn, cause poor grammar… really gets my goat. After the next 9/11? What are you talking about? Sounds like a bad case of paranoia to me. You do know that every will still have rights no matter what, don’t you? It’s provided for in the U.S. Constitution. I bet you really astound the academics. Anyway, Ammerah doesn’t have children. Muslims eat their young, don’t you know? Such horrrrible people.

ofthemany on April 23, 2006 at 5:14 pm

Fitness First is the biggest gym outfit in Uk, have outlets throughout Europe, Australia and FarEast, They have total bi-sex training – showers are different !
Here in Rochdale UK (30% Asian) the Council paid out £60,000 (US$80,000) for training course for Muslim women who didn’t speak English for their own gym time at the Local corporation Swimmming baths gym facilities.
If you want a Muslim women only gym, fine set it up.

ziz on April 23, 2006 at 5:38 pm

“The gym reneged on a verbal promise they made that both Muslim AND non-Muslim (yes, CHRISTIAN) women are fighting since our privacy and money has quickly gone to waste or disappeared.”
What promise was that? Why would a verbal promise that applies to the Dearborn location apply to Lincoln Park? Do you expect to go to any Fitness USA location in the US and have your verbal promise fulfilled?
FYI, always get it in writing.

Rupert on April 23, 2006 at 6:21 pm

Bush is wrong when he says we should fight them “over there” so we don’t have to fight them over here. Wrong again, W. We DO need to fight them over here, and it’s even more important than fighting them anywhere else.

KnightoftheImpaler on April 23, 2006 at 6:21 pm

Debbie,
It really is me, the very Ammerah from the article.
Now, I believe we can never judge a victim’s actions. And Palestinians are victims of Western Imperialism. This is a fact and every nation, when it begins to grow, wishes to spread its power. Deny this and you’re denying fact. Israelis are sitting on land that is occupied by the Palestinians. Ask yourself Debbie, if you were sitting at home, an army comes in, demands you move out, sends you to the streets and gives up your home that you’ve built to someone who was given *western* support to usurp your land. Develop even a shred of empathy and you’ll know that I can never judge a victim of abuse. I can say that it’s unfortunate that events have escalated to such a degree of violence, but there are humanitarian issues that are being blatantly ignored by the world and by propagandists like yourself. Innocent are dying everywhere and some are now resorting to violence. You’ll never understand why but the worlds’ apathy will continue to fuel their hate. So before we judge others, let’s judge how our own actions or inactions have allowed such atrocities.
Duh, Debbie, I condemn anti-semitism…I am semitic, You silly goose ;-)
America is a nation that will rise and fall like every other nation in history. If it falls to Islam, so be it. If it doesn’t, so be it. But, just like Rome, it’ll fall. Or do you not acknowledge the repetition of history?
And lastly, Fitness USA is not a private business. It is recognized by the MDCR and Michigan government as a place of public accommodation and it is susceptible to wills and wishes of its PAYING members, I being one. Now, Debbie, stop reading what you want and get the facts straight. This isn’t an Islamic issue; it’s an issue concerning several women, Muslim and non-Muslim who have united, against a business which promised one thing, took our money and then ran off with our funds. Any paying customer would do exactly what I’m doing. And to top it off, I’m being ballasted by groups of Christian women who also feel financially cheated by this PUBLIC business. And the MDCR agrees…so does the BBB….so does the Attorney General.
May ALLAH bless you Debbie.

Akhmed-ee on April 23, 2006 at 7:26 pm

Sorry to say this “Danny” but you have made a very bad mistake in your reasoning. Alienate the US, the ONLY friend Israel has, and that would be the end of Israel as we know it. (From Julie Myers thread)
Ziz, I hope I am wrong here but I think Europe itself (whose people’s blood courses through most of our veins here) is not much appreciated here either.
“ofthemany” and Akhmed-ee, I’ll deal with you on my own terms. What your people have done and are doing to mine in Europe will be exacted in due time. I will remember the “groomings” in Keighly.
“… you’ll know that I can never judge a victim of abuse.”
Remember your words Akhmed-ee, for I certainly will.

Paraclese on April 23, 2006 at 8:37 pm

“”ofthemany” and Akhmed-ee, I’ll deal with you on my own terms. What your people have done and are doing to mine in Europe will be exacted in due time. I will remember the “groomings” in Keighly.”
If you say “your” people meaning hers and mine both, Muslims and Christians, then by all means, wait. Wait until the seas turn red and the fires of hell consume us all. Hate begets hate. None of this will end until both sides see that.

ofthemany on April 23, 2006 at 9:04 pm

I appreciate Europe, unlike the neo-cons. But Europe, except Eastern Europe (where my family comes from) has already been overrun and is more or less on the verge of a civil war at this point. Pat Buchanan’s DEATH OF THE WEST made me want to go and slit my wrists (to quote LaShawn Barber, who obviously doesn’t share the leftist opinion that the book is racist) but that wouldn’t help the problem would it? The problem has gotten worse since the book came out and can only escalate from the way things are going.

KnightoftheImpaler on April 23, 2006 at 9:06 pm

AMMERAH,
You can remain as affectionate and blind as you want about ISLAM, YOUR RELIGION of ìhatred and murderî but the TRUTH remainsÖand is reported from ALL corners of the world. When YOUR BROTHERS arenít killing COPTSÖtheyíre MURDERING JEWS!
WHEN will YOU blow yourself up?
YOU could probably take out the OWNERS of the gym who ìbetrayedî you!
HAVE any of YOUR 4 year-old cousins been dressed up LATELYÖlike a suicide bomberÖJUST for LAUGHSÖjust for youíre MUSLIM FAMILY who SURELY finds gestures like these so humorous?
Are ANY of your BROTHERS going to shoot the POPE again?
Or threaten to kill PRESIDENT BUSHíS father?
Or run over some unsuspecting UNIVERSITY STUDENTS at a bus shelter?
YesÖyou MUSLIMSÖand your sense of humour is just a LAUGH RIOT~
And about JESUSÖMuslims not content with REVERSING GENESIS are now REVERSING the GOSPELñ
Muslims recognize JESUS? Since when?
Muslims see JESUS as a PROPHET.
CATHOLICS see JESUS as PROPHET, PRIEST and KING. And, of course, as the SON of GOD and the SECOND PERSON of the TRINITY.
You Muslims sure miss a lot when you read the GOSPELS. LOOK at what JESUS said about HimselfÖand not what Mohammed, or your local imam says. Try to think for yourself! JUST REMEMBER when you are reading the GospelsÖthey are reading you! And forcing you to choose FOR or AGAINSTÖthatís the beauty of Scripture~
Muslims CANíT UNDERSTAND why GOD would allow JESUS to be humiliated and die as foretold in the OLD TESTAMENT?
Well, hereís a storyÖ
ONCE there was a woman who was brought before the local town judge because she couldnít pay her $400 speeding ticket. She stood there, below the judge, who asked to pay her fineÖor she would have to pay her due in jail. She repeated that she could not pay the fine. Then the judge did an amazing thing. He stood up, removed his judgeís robe, and came around to the front of the judgeís bench.
Then the judge paid the fine for the woman!
WHY would he do such a thing?
Because the woman was his daughter~
HOW do you RECONCILE even ONE offense of man against the majesty of the All Holy God?
EVEN one sin is an offense against God and is punishable by spiritual death and SEPARATION from GOD.
Thatís why JESUSÖthe God-Man (or the Son of Man, as Jesus referred to Himself îtongue in cheekî) had to pay OUR due before God.
JESUS said, ìAs Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness (Num 21:9), EVEN SO the Son of Man will be lifted upÖ[on the cross] (John 3:14).
Jesus became OUR sacrificial lamb Who ushered in the New Covenant, foretold of in the Old Testament (Jeremiah 31:31) and mentioned ONLY ONCE in Old Testament.
And Jesus suffered HORRIBLY to show Godís great AVERSION to sin.
Did ISLAM think that God would ONLY talk to His People THROUGH PROPHETS only? Did you not think that God would not ONE DAY come IN PERSON?
Well THATíS who Jesus was!
After Jesus (the God-Man) APPEARED there was no need of further prophetsÖthe New Covenant had begun. What could ìa Mohammedî add to that?
ìMy thoughtsÖare not your thoughtsÖmy ways are not your waysÖ(Isaiah 55:8)î
A little hard for Simpsonís fansÖor some of the baseball-obsessed CROWD to understand.
And CERTAINLY beyond the Muslims who recreate everything from Mohammedís STRAY THOUGHTS and BABBLEÖI mean…of courseÖthe Koran.

The Canadien on April 23, 2006 at 9:53 pm

Akhmed-ee said, “If it falls to Islam, so be it. If it doesn’t, so be it.”
Here’s an old saying that is appropriate at this time for me, “America, Love it or Leave it!”
If this nation did fall to Islam, I’d love to see you demand your “rights”, jerk.
ofthemany…yeah, I *REALLY* believe you are a Republican.

The_Man on April 23, 2006 at 9:53 pm

“Israelis are sitting on land that is occupied by the Palestinians. Ask yourself Debbie, if you were sitting at home, an army comes in, demands you move out, sends you to the streets and gives up your home that you’ve built to someone who was given *western* support to usurp your land”
Hah! Israelis are victims of Palestinian occupation! They were there long before the Muslims, neh? Anyway, using that logic, all Copts, Syrian, and Chaldeans can demand that Muslims move back to the Arabian pennisula, because they unsurped Christian lands through Muslim imperialism, right?
Anyhoo, Fitness USA is not subject to your religious superstitions. You signed a contract, and your stuck with it. Again I ask, why should Lincoln Park, which has very few Muslims, or any California FUSA for that matter, be subject to your demands? Save on the 1500 and buy a Bowflex.
And Debbie, you look hot in a hijab.

Rupert on April 23, 2006 at 11:03 pm

Jace and Ammerah its Steven I just wanted to say damn good work

sjhernan on April 23, 2006 at 11:05 pm

For those who are not familiar, this concept in Islam, is known as DAWA: http://www.dawanet.com/

Alert on April 23, 2006 at 11:07 pm

But now for a longer comment ñ My name is Steven and I am Mexican American convert to Islam. I have known Ammerah for a number of years and for a woman who is supposed to be so ìoppressedî by her faith that she takes very seriously she certainly is very activity in the community.
When reading the article and the comments afterwards I saw a lot of misconceptions and fear so I am going to try and clear things up.
First off protesting a business decision you donít agree with is very American! Whether itís calling out companies that use shady business practices or a film or records that we find offensive. Having these women just accept this and keep quite seems very un-American and smacks off tyranny ñ remember the Boston Tea party which is now seen as a critical revolutionary moment was a protest against corporate decisions the colonist didnít agree with.
Either way my friends Muslim or whatever, and I know several who are involved with this action ñ spefically joined fitness because they wanted a womanís only gym and they are simply trying to get what they paid for. Women wanting a non meat market atmosphere to exercise hardly sounds like the Republic is in danger of collapse.
Now for a few other things;
Jace is not a Muslim but he is a good and loyal friend and that is more than enough in my book.
And remember folks you canít be a good Muslim without respecting and loving ALL the Prophets equally. I my Muslims friends forget this point sometimes and I remind them of it.
All suicide bombers are idiots and they are in complete contradiction of everything they claim to stand for. The Taliban, Al Qaeda and all those fools are no more representative of Islam than the KKK is of Christianity.
So when Muslims try to be active partners here we should embrace them not try to shout them down and insult them.
Again Ammerah and everyone else donít be discouraged keep up the fight
Best – Steven

sjhernan on April 23, 2006 at 11:54 pm

“spefically joined fitness because they wanted a womanís only gym and they are simply trying to get what they paid for. Women wanting a non meat market atmosphere to exercise hardly sounds like the Republic is in danger of collapse.”
Steven,
What does the the contract she *signed* say with regards to single sex workouts?

Rupert on April 24, 2006 at 12:13 am

Rupert,
The contract I signed says that the rules and regulations may change at the sole discretion of the supercenter. I have said over and over again that we are not saying that the business is in breach of contract. We are simply saying that they are; 1) not taking into consideration the huge Muslim demographic in this community when making business decisions, and I am talking huge and 2)they are taking back a tradition of gender privacy which was a selling point of theirs for 50 years. This has affected thousands of their consumers, Muslim, non-Muslim, male and female. We are merely asking them to uphold a tradition and not ignore their loyal PAYING customers’ wishes. There have been several responses to the local article of women of Christian background who also feel that they have been taken advantage of since they were verbally told that these gyms would remain gender specific. We even compromised and asked that they simply put up a divider between the co-ed and non-co-ed sections of the gyms. This would create a win-win situation. And as I’ve stated in my formal letter of complaint (which followed the company’s protocol for filing complaints), I am looking to earn their respect by respecting the rules and protocols of this country and their company. Even if you took Islam out of this equation, this would still be a huge consumer concern for any member of a business.
Thank you for your time.
And in regards to why I’m targeting Lincoln Park…it’s because I went to that specific gym and so did hundreds of women from the Dearborn area because the gym is bigger and nicer than the facility in Dearborn. The pool alone in Dearborn is half the size of the one in Lincoln Park and the lines for machines are half as long.
In regards to Islam and it’s imposing it’s beliefs on others, Allah has stated in the Holy Quran: There is no compulsion in religion. If you find anything that contradicts this, you are taking it out of context…PERIOD.
Islam = Peace
Ignorance only breeds hate. Come to me with an open-mind and in return you’ll receive the same.
AMMERAH,
ACTUALLY “ISLAM” DOES NOT MEAN “PEACE.” IT MEANS “SUBMISSION.” PLEASE LEARN ARABIC.
DEBBIE SCHLUSSEL

Akhmed-ee on April 24, 2006 at 12:36 am

Sooooooooooooo if this is a non-islam issue, why is it a problem after 50 years? That makes no sense to me.

Crimsonfisted on April 24, 2006 at 9:33 am

Akhmed-ee , “We are simply saying that they are; 1) not taking into consideration the huge Muslim demographic in this community when making business decisions, and I am talking huge and…”
Too bad, so sad. As Debbie said, “But the name of the company is clearly “Fitness USA,” not “Allah’s Gym USA.””
ofthemany said, “If want of a safe place to exercise, free from the prying eyes of a bigoted public..”
Wow! That’s a weird statement that says it all. Bigoted public? Now who is painting with a broad brush?
Frankly, I don’t believe a word ofthemany and Akhmed-ee have posted. The more you guys post the more clear your intentions are, which is to impose your beliefs on others.

Jeff_W on April 24, 2006 at 9:39 am

Steven,
You said, “All suicide bombers are idiots and they are in complete contradiction of everything they claim to stand for. The Taliban, Al Qaeda and all those fools are no more representative of Islam than the KKK is of Christianity.”
Everything al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah etc. stand for can be backed up on Islmaic grounds. Quoting Quranic text using sunnah and Hadith. Lets hear your argument based on Islamic text on why they are wrong!! The fact of the matter is you cant. You are an Islamic appalogist who thinks you represent a true religion of peace. I gurantee you anything you come up with based on Islamic grounds that you deem peaceful can be abbrogated by ismaic text that is violent.
Get a clue…

Avatar on April 24, 2006 at 11:37 am

Akhmed-ee,
you said, “In regards to Islam and it’s imposing it’s beliefs on others, Allah has stated in the Holy Quran: There is no compulsion in religion. If you find anything that contradicts this, you are taking it out of context…PERIOD”
What a typical appologist response…”out of context”.
Your Sura has been abbrogated…
The passage was overridden by ( sura 9:73: “O Prophet! Struggle against the unbelievers and hypocrites and be harsh with them”).
There are many others after your passge that abbrogates as well…
Abbrogation is a concept widely understood by all religions not just Islam, but is extremely important to islam becasue of the vast amounts of peaceful vs hatred passages throughout. Of course I’m sure you know this already, afterall, anyone who blanketly says anything that contraticts sura 2:256 which you quoted and says anything that conflicts this as “out of context” must know they have no leg to stand on Islmaic Grounds why something like Sura 9:73 is more true over sura 2:256. That’s why you use the “out of context” appologist excuse.
nice try…maybe you should study your own religion more, not just learning arabic as Debbis suggests…

Avatar on April 24, 2006 at 12:07 pm

Ahkmed-ee,
I’m not aware of the demographic at the Lincoln Park fitness USA, but Lincoln Park has few Muslims. So ‘this community’ your talking about must mean Dearborn, which has it’s own facility. If the majority of the members at the LP facility see it your way, then I’m satisfied(this isn’t clear). But if Muslims are coming from Dearborn into the LP factility and asking that their wishes be fulfilled in a community that isn’t theirs, then you are fighting a losing battle. Your time would be better spent getting the Dearborn facility upgraded or asking for your money back.
And as for Islam, the Quran does indeed have it’s tolerant parts as you’ve quoted. It also has plenty of ‘slay the unblievers wherever you may find them’. Islam does not mean peace. Salaam means peace, Islam means submission but surely you knew that and are simply lying.

Rupert on April 24, 2006 at 12:18 pm

Again – way too much venom and fear in these comments! Me and my friends are not being insulting there is no need for it. I and others have been challenged to call out extermists fools who twist Islam fortunatley I have already done this below is my take on the Abdul Rhaman case:
The Abdul Rahman case to me was nothing more than the clerics of Afghanistan in a desperate bid to show that they are still a force in a changing society. Unfortunately all they did was make Afghanistan, its new government and Islam look bad. Talk about misusing your faith to score political points! The following article is one amongst many that explained that
Let There Be No Compulsion in Religion| Sheikh S‚mÓ al-M‚jid|
One of the fundamental truths established by the sacred texts is that no one can be compelled to accept Islam. It is the duty of Muslims to establish the proof of Islam to the people so that truth can be made clear from falsehood. After that, whoever wishes to accept Islam may do so and whoever wishes to continue upon unbelief may do so. No one should be threatened or harmed in any way if he does not wish to accept Islam.
Among the many decisive pieces of evidence in this regard are the following:
Allah says: ìLet there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And Allah hears and knows all things.î [S?rah al-Baqarah: 256]
Allah says: ìIf it had been your Lordís will, all of the people on Earth would have believed. Would you then compel the people so to have them believe?î [S?rah Y?nus: 99]
Allah says: ìSo if they dispute with you, say ëI have submitted my whole self to Allah, and so have those who follow me.í And say to the People of the Scripture and to the unlearned: ëDo you also submit yourselves?í If they do, then they are on right guidance. But if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message. And in Allahís sight are all of His servants.î [S?rah ¬l `Imr‚n: 20]
Allah says: ìThe Messengerís duty is but to proclaim the Message.î [S?rah al-M‚íidah: 99]
It is important to note that these last two verses were revealed in Madinah. This is significant, since it shows that the ruling they gave was not just contingent on the Muslims being in Mecca in a state of weakness.
Some people might be wondering that if Islam indeed advocates such an approach, then what is all this we hear about jihad? How can we explain the warfare that the Prophet (peace be upon him) and his Companions waged against the pagans?
The answer to this is that jihad in Islamic Law can be waged for a number of reasons, but compelling people to accept Islam is simply not one of them.
The reason why jihad was first permitted in Islam was so the Muslims could defend themselves against persecution and expulsion from their homes.
Allah says: ìTo those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged ñ and verily Allah is Most Powerful for their aid ñ (They are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right ñ (for no cause) except that they say, ëOur Lord is Allahí. Did Allah not check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his cause, for truly Allah is full of strength and might.î [S?rah al-Hajj: 39-40]
Many of the earliest scholars mention that these were the first verses of the Qurí‚n that was revealed regarding jihad. Thereafter the following verses were revealed:
ìFight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And slay them wherever you catch them and drive them out from whence they drove you out, for oppression is worse than killing. But fight them not at the sacred mosque unless they fight you there. But if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. But if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression.î [S?rah al-Baqarah: 190-193]
From this point on, the scope of jihad was broadened from being purely for defense against direct attack to being inclusive of resistance against those who suppress the faith and deny people the freedom to choose their religion for themselves. This came later, because it is legislated for the Muslims only when they are capable of doing so. In times of weakness, Muslims may only fight against direct attack.
As for the spread of Islam, this is supposed to take place peacefully by disseminating the Message with the written and spoken word. There is no place for the use of weapons to compel people to accept Islam. Weapons can only be drawn against those who persecute and oppress others and prevent them from following their own consciences in matters of belief. The Muslims cannot just stand by while people are being denied the right to believe in Islam and their voices are being crushed. This is the meaning of Allahís words: ìAnd fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in Allah.î [S?rah al-Baqarah: 193]
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said in his letter to the Roman governor Heracles: ìI invite you to accept Islam. If you accept Islam, you will find safety. If you accept Islam, Allah will give you a double reward. However, if you turn away, upon you will be the sin of your subjects.î [SahÓh al-Bukh‚rÓ and SahÓh Muslim]
Once people have heard the Message without obstruction or hindrance and the proof has been established upon them, then the duty of the Muslims is done. Those who wish to believe are free to do so and those who prefer to disbelieve are likewise free to do so.
Even when the Muslims are compelled to fight and then, as a consequence, subdue the land, their duty thereafter is to establish Allahís law in the land and uphold justice for all people, Muslim and non-Muslim. It is not their right to coerce their subjects to accept Islam against their will. Non-Muslims under Muslim rule must be allowed to remain on their own faith and must be allowed to practice the rights of their faith, though they will be expected to respect the laws of the land.
Had the purpose of jihad been to force the unbelievers to accept Islam, the Prophet (peace be upon him) would never have commanded the Muslims to refrain from hostilities if the enemy relented. He would not have prohibited the killing of women and children. However, this is exactly what he did.
During a battle, the Prophet (peace be upon him) saw people gathered together. He dispatched a man to find out why they were gathered. The man returned and said: ìThey are gathered around a slain woman.î So Allahís Messenger (peace be upon him) said: ìShe should not have been attacked!î Kh‚lid b. al-WalÓd was leading the forces, so he dispatched a man to him saying: ìëTell Kh‚lid not to kill women or laborersî. [Sunan AbÓ D‚w?d]
Therefore, even in the heat of battle against a hostile enemy, the only people who may be attacked are those who are actually participating in the fighting.
Had the purpose of jihad been to force the unbelievers to accept Islam, the rightly guided Caliphs would not have prohibited the killing of priests and monks who refrained from fighting. However, this is exactly what they did. When the first Caliph, Ab? Bakr, sent an army to Syria to fight the aggressive Roman legions, he went out to give them words of encouragement. He said: ìYou are going to find a group of people who have devoted themselves to the worship of Allah (i.e. monks), so leave them to what they are doing.î
We have demonstrated that it is a principle in Islam that there is no compulsion in religion and we have discussed the objectives of jihad. Now, we shall turn our attentions to some texts that are often misunderstood.
One of these is the verse: ìBut when the forbidden months are past, then fight the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them and beleaguer them and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war). But if they repent and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them, for Allah is oft-forgiving, most merciful.î [S?rah al-Tawbah: 5]
Some people ñ especially some contemporary non-Muslim critics of Islam ñ have tried to claim that this verse abrogates the verse ìLet there be no compulsion in religion.î They argue that the generality of this statement implies that every unbeliever who refuses to accept Islam must be fought. They support their allegation by pointing out that this verse is one of the last verses to be revealed about fighting.
However, this verse in no way abrogates the principle in Islamic Law that there is no compulsion in religion. It may be general in wording, but its meaning is quite specific on account of other verses of the Qurí‚n that are connected with it as well as on account of a number of pertinent hadÓth. We will be discussing these texts shortly.
The people being referred to by this verse are the pagan Arabs who had been waging war against the Prophet (peace be upon him) and who had broken their covenant and treaties with him. This verse is not speaking about the other pagan Arabs who did not break their treaties and take up arms against the Muslims. It is also most definitely not speaking about the Jews or Christians, or, for that matter, the pagans who were living outside of Arabia.
If we look at the verses in S?rah al-Tawbah immediately before and after the one under discussion, the context of the verse becomes clear.
A few verses before the one we are discussing, Allah says: ìThere is a declaration of immunity from Allah and His Messenger to those of the pagans with whom you have contracted mutual alliances. Go then, for four months, to and fro throughout the land. But know that you cannot frustrate Allah that Allah will cover with shame those who reject Him.î [S?rah al-Tawbah: 1-2]
In these verses we see that the pagans were granted a four month amnesty with an indication that when the four months were over, fighting would resume. However, a following verse exempts some of them from the resumption of hostilities. It reads: ìExcept for those pagans with whom you have entered into a covenant and who then do not break their covenant at all nor aided anyone against you. So fulfill your engagements with them until the end of their term, for Allah loves the righteous.î [S?rah al-Tawbah: 4]
So when Allah says: ìBut when the forbidden months are past, then fight the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them and beleaguer them and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)î we must know that it is not general, since the verse above has qualified it to refer to the pagan Arabs who were actually at war with the Prophet (peace be upon him) and those who broke their covenants of peace.
This is further emphasized a few verses later where Allah says: ìWill you not fight people who broke their covenants and plotted to expel the Messenger and attacked you first?î [S?rah al-Tawbah: 13]
Ibn al-`ArabÓ, in his commentary on the Qurí‚n, writes: ìIt is clear from this that the meaning of this verse is to kill the pagans who are waging war against you.î [Ahk‚m al-Qurí‚n: (2/456)]
Allah also say right after the verse under discussion: ìHow can there be a covenant before Allah and His Messenger with the pagans except those with whom you have made a treaty near the Sacred Mosque? As long as they stand true to you, stand true to them, for Allah does love the righteous.î [S?rah al-Tawbah: 7]
Another misunderstood text is the hadÓth where the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: ìI have been commanded to fight the people until they bear witness that there is no God but Allah and that I am Allahís Messenger. If they do so, then there blood and their wealth are inviolable except in the dispensation of justice, and their affair is with Allah.î [SahÓh al-Bukh‚rÓ and SahÓh Muslim]
There can be no qualms about this hadÓthís authenticity, since it is recorded in both SahÓh al-Bukh‚rÓ and SahÓh Muslim. However, this hadÓth is also not to be taken generally, out of context, and in complete disregard to all the other textual evidence.
The term ìpeopleî here is not referring to all humanity. Ibn Taymiyah says: ìIt refers to fighting those who are waging war, whom Allah has permitted us to fight. It does not refer to those who have a covenant with us with whom Allah commands us to fulfill our covenant.î [Majm?` al-Fat‚w‚ (19/20)]
Islam commands the Muslims to be just with people of other faiths, whether they be Jews, Christians, or pagans. Islam calls us to treat them kindly and try to win their hearts as long as they do not take up arms against us. Allah says: ìAllah forbids you not with regard to those who neither fight against you for your faith nor drive you out of your homes from dealing kindly and justly with them, for Allah loves those who are just.î [S?rah al-Mumtahanah: 9-10]
Allah commands Muslims to respect their non-Muslim parents and to accompany them in this world in a good manner.
The Qurí‚n commands us to argue with them in the best manner. Allah says: ìArgue with the People of the Scripture in the best manner except those among them who act oppressively. Say: We believe in the revelation that has come down to us and in that which came down to you. Our God and your God is one, and it is to Him we submit ourselves as Muslims.î [S?rah al-`Ankab?t: 46]
We are ordered to uphold our covenants with the non-Muslims and not betray them or transgress against them. The Prophet (peace be upon him) gave a stern warning to us against killing a non-Muslim with whom we are at peace. He said: ìWhoever kills one with whom we have a covenant will not smell the scent of Paradise.î [SahÓh Muslim]
The faith of a Muslim is not acceptable unless he believes in all of the Prophets who were sent before (peace be upon them all). Allah says: ìO you who believe! Believe in Allah, His Messenger, the scripture that He revealed to His messenger and the scripture that he revealed before. Whoever disbelieves in Allah, His angels, His books, His Messengers, and the Last Day has gone far astray.î [S?rah al-Nis‚í]

sjhernan on April 24, 2006 at 2:31 pm

Here is another more to the point article:
Quran and Hadith on Religious Persecution
No compulsion in religion
This article has two sections. The first is a brief explanation of Quranic verses that are often mistaken as instructions to persecute Non-Muslims. The second section features verses from the Quran and Hadith that vehemently insist on religious tolerance and the idea of “no compulsion in religion.” God willing, Non-Muslims as well as our Muslim brothers and sisters who resort to violence, will take these verses into consideration.
Anti-Islamic people often use the following verses to justify the stereotype that Islam is a religion of violence and intolerance, which was spread by the sword. The explanations here were aided by Abdullah Yusuf Ali’s commentary on the Holy Quran.
Sura 8.12 “Remember thy lord has inspired the angels with the message. Give firmness to the believers and instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. Smite them above their necks and smite the fingertips of them.”
Sura 9.5 “When the sacred months have passed, kill the idolaters whereever you find them.”
Sura 47.4 “When you encounter the unbelievers, Strike off their heads. Untill you have made a wide slaughter among them tie up the remaining captives.”
Sura 8 is about a BATTLE – the Battle of Badr – not just some daily affair. A battles take two side to occur. Are you under the impression that while these ‘horrid’ Muslims were fighting, the enemies were simply standing there like good little peaceful men?
Sura 47 was revealed during the first year of Hijrah when the Muslims were under *threat of extinction* by invasion from Makkah.
Sura 9 is interesting. Non-Muslims almost invariably quote verse 5 but leave out verse 4 and 6. Why? Because verse 4 says, “But the treatires are not dissolved with those Pagans with whom you have entered into alliance and who have you subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided anyone against you. So fulfill your engagements with them to the end of their term: for God Loves the righteous.”
And verse 6 says, “If one among the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him so that he may hear the Word of God; and then escort him to where he can be secure.”
So basically what has been done above is:
1. The background to each sura was shown. One cannot take a verse revealed for a battle and insist it is if for the daily affairs of Muslims.
2. It was shown how Non-muslims who wish to attack Islam, conveniently leave out verses before and after their quoted verse. Above, I have shown only one of the many examples.
Section II
This long list of verses from the Holy Quran and the Traditions of Prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him) show that Islam at it’s core and at its source is a religion of peace. Terrorists who persecute innocent people because of their faith are not welcome – their use of Islam as a scapegoat, does not make Islam what they portray it to be.
2:256 There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing.
16:82 But if they turn away from you, (O Prophet remember that) your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message (entrusted to you).
6:107 Yet if God had so willed, they would not have ascribed Divinity to aught besides him; hence, We have not made you their keeper, nor are you (of your own choice) a guardian over them.
4:79, 80 (Say to everyone of them,) ‘Whatever good betides you is from God and whatever evil betides you is from your own self and that We have (O Prophet) sent you to mankind only as a messenger and all sufficing is God as witness. Whoso obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys God. And for those who turn away, We have not sent you as a keeper.”
11:28 (Noah to his people) He (Noah) said “O my people! think over it! If 1 act upon a clear direction from my Lord who has bestowed on me from Himself the Merciful talent of seeing the right way, a way which you cannot see for yourself, does it follow that we can force you to take the right path when you definitely decline to take it??
17:53, 54 And tell my servants that they should speak in a most kindly manner (unto those who do not share their beliefs). Verily, Satan is always ready to stir up discord between men; for verily; Satan is mans foe …. Hence, We have not sent you (Unto men O Prophet) with power to determine their Faith.
21:107 to 109 (O Prophet?) ‘We have not sent you except to be a mercy to all mankind:” Declare, “Verily, what is revealed to me is this, your God is the only One God, so is it not up to you to bow down to Him?’ But if they turn away then say, “I have delivered the Truth in a manner clear to one and all, and I know not whether the promised hour (of Judgment) is near or far.”
22:67 To every people have We appointed ceremonial rites (of prayer) which they observe; therefore, let them not wrangle over this matter with you, but bid them to turn to your Lord (since that is the main objective of religion). You indeed are rightly guided. But if they still dispute you in this matter, (then say,) `God best knows (the value of) what you do.”
88:21, 22; also see 24:54 And so, (O Prophet!) exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe.
48:28 He it is Who has sent forth His Messenger with the (task of spreading) Guidance and the Religion of Truth, to the end that tie make it prevail over every (false) religion, and none can bear witness to the Truth as God does.
36:16, 17 (Three Messengers to their people)Said (the Messengers), “Our Sustainer knows that we have indeed been sent unto you, but we are not bound to more than clearly deliver the Message entrusted to us.’
39:41 Assuredly, We have sent down the Book to you in right form for the good of man. Whoso guided himself by it does so to his own advantage, and whoso turns away from it does so at his own loss. You certainly are not their keeper.
42:6, 48 And whoso takes for patrons others besides God, over them does God keep a watch. Mark, you are not a keeper over them. But if they turn aside from you (do not get disheartened), for We have not sent you to be a keeper over them; your task is but to preach ….
64:12 Obey God then and obey the Messenger, but if you turn away (no blame shall attach to our Messenger), for the duty of Our Messenger is just to deliver the message.
67:25, 26 And they ask, “When shall the promise be fulfilled if you speak the Truth?” Say, “The knowledge of it is verily with God alone, and verily I am but a plain warner.”
60:8 Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.
60:9 Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.
The teachings of the Prophet on how you and I should treat our Non-Muslim friends and neighbours on a day to day basis as well as how to government should treat a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state.
“He who believes in God and the Last Day should honour his guest, should not harm his neighbour, should speak good or keep quiet.” (Bukhari, Muslim)
“Whoever hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state hurts me, and he who hurts me annoys God.” (Bukhari)
“He who hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state, I am his adversary, and I shall be his adversary on the Day of a Judgement.” (Bukhari)
“Beware on the Day of Judgement; I shall mysefl be complainant against him who wrongs a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state or lays on him a responsibility greater than he can bear or deprives him of anything that belongs to him.” (Al-Mawardi)
“Anyone who kills a Non-Muslim who had become our ally will not smell the fragrance of Paradise.” (Bukhari)

sjhernan on April 24, 2006 at 2:36 pm

Many people are turned off by the Islam = Submission but again we can’t let cultural differences and ignorance blind us.
We equate submission with dominion, opression etc.
But in fact Submission to God means loving God with your whole body mind and spirit – Another great Prophet named Jesus said that and its still true today.

sjhernan on April 24, 2006 at 2:44 pm

As a Jew, I can understand Ammerah’s religiously motivated modesty. Most Orthodox Jews have similar restrictions as far as mixing of the sexes is concerned,especially for school, swimming, exercize etc etc., but they don’t try to impose their mores on others in western societies. In regards to “I am semitic you silly goose”. These cute semantic tricks don’t work. Everybody knows what “anti-semitism” refers to. It is the irrational hatred of the Jewish people that led to the slaughter of 6 million Jews, including 1 and a half million children, just 60 years ago. Its victims included my grandmother and uncles and aunts as well as my wifes whole family. Today is “Yom Hashoah V’Hagvurah” on which their memory is commemorated in Israel. On April 18th the Islamic Thinkers Society held a rally in front of the Israeli Consulate in New York to celebrate the suicide bombing that took place the day before in Tel Aviv, where 9 innocent people were killed and many others horribly injured by a 16 year old member of ISLAMIC Jihad. The demonstators chanted “Isreali Zionist What do you say? The REAL Holocaust is on its way. The mushroom cloud is on its way. The real Holocaust is on its way. Israel won’t last long, Indeed Allah will REPEAT the Holocaust right on the soil of Israel. No wonder they call you the sons of apes and pigs because that’s what you are. Islam will dominate the world.” They can’t seem to make up their mind even in 2 lines of a chant , whether the Holocaust happened or not.That’s how illogical and stupid their thinking is.

Tim on April 24, 2006 at 4:21 pm

sjhernan,
I dont need to look any further in your response than the second paragraph in your first post to witness the dishonesty you share.
You said,
“The Abdul Rahman case to me was nothing more than the clerics of Afghanistan in a desperate bid to show that they are still a force in a changing society. Unfortunately all they did was make Afghanistan, its new government and Islam look bad. Talk about misusing your faith to score political points!”
Are you freaking kidding me?!!! You think that was for political purposes by the Taliban only?? Maybe you missed all the other calls for his death by muslims not only living in countries like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Iran, but also in European countries as well. I’ve seen protest signs in Enlgish calling for his death. Not nearly as many as say the Danish Cartoonist of course.
Although Karzai has said they allow freedom of religion as part of the consitution, they also above all else implement Sharia law! Which clearly states that Rhaman is an apostate. Karzai and his “Moderate” “anti-taliban” government were more concered with calling Rahman mentally ill to ease mulsim tensions on the reason for his release, rather that just telling muslims around the world something like, “We respect all religions here converts or not. Now join us in the 21st century…”. Then, the flew him out of the country for fear of him being killed. Not to some other Muslim country mind you where the taliban does not exist, but to Italy! You know, where the home of the Catholic church resides. If this was just a Taliban issue, why not move him to another muslim “friendly” country?
Rahman’s release from death was only done becasue of worldwide pressure and the Afghan’s ludicrous ploy to paint the guy as a mad man…simple converts from Islam who dont get the benfit of a known trial which can spread to worldwide awareness, are killed in the streets, no judge, no jury. This goes for the other unfortunate Dhimmis that live in Islamic countries who are not converrts but non muslims by birth.
Now I do realise you said “According to me” in your response, however, isnt this just the evidence we need to realize that you are kidding yourself on the “religion of peace and tollerance”? You come off as, “This is my opinion, but not necessarily truth and fact”.
On your second post, nice of you to copy and paste an article from the top of a google search to make your argument. I think its shows a lack knowledge about your religion. This says, I dont know the arguments, so i’ll paste an article I dont know much about to make the argument for me.
allow me to refute the first section…
This article is made for people who know NOTHING about the Quran…
It matters very little what suras lay before and after other intollerant violent suras and then talk about context being the issue. As you know but arent being honest about is that the Quran does not read like a book. you can not take passages before and after suras and talk about context. Each passage is in the eyes of muslims “perfect”. The way the quran reads is not put in any logical form for mainstream muslims to understand. That’s why hadith and Sunnah exists!
Which again leads to abrogation. Earlier in Mohammeds life, backed up by Hadith, Mohammed spoke of peace and tollerance towards infidels. Any passages that support this can lay before or after sura 9:5 quoted in the article above. Which matters very little, because like I said, its not a book. BUT THEN, Mohammed became a vengefull, warmonger and slayed the unbelivers whereever he found them. Again supported by Quran and of course the Hadith which is the narrative story of Mohammed in its chronological order.
As for the rest of the article that quotes passage after passage of what seems like peaceful and tollerant passage I ask you this…
Where oh where in the world is Islam practiced like that today?

Avatar on April 24, 2006 at 4:34 pm

What the heck.Anti-israel or not???

danny on April 24, 2006 at 4:34 pm

So suicide killing’s o.k.,right?fu..king arabs animals.

danny on April 24, 2006 at 4:41 pm

some arab animal’s here,telling me about -THE BILL OF RIGHTS.

danny on April 24, 2006 at 5:03 pm

And Ammerah, the the same virulent anti-semitism that motivated the Nazis is alive and well in most Islamic countries. The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a best seller all over the Islamic world. The Egyptian Gov. even had a TV series called “Horse Without a Rider” based on this forgery. ElManar of Hizballah and Iranian TV have frequent broadcasts based on the blood libel against the Jews which was discredited by Pope Innocent in the 12th century. Mabey you’ve seen the broadcasts in your house. As far as the simplistic formula about “we can never judge the Palestinian victim” And “the Israelis are sitting on Palestinian land.” In 1860 the majority of the inhabitants of Jerusalem were Jews according to a census done by the Ottoman Empire. 60% of the Jews living in Israel are refugees from Arab and Muslem lands. One third of the Jewish members of the Israeli Parliament are themslves or the children of refugees from Arab and Moslem lands. One fifth of the members of this body are Moslems.Israeli President Katsav and defence minister Mofaz are refugees from Iran. Most of the land on which Israel sits was purchased or originally owned by Jews. The 1 milion Jewish refugees from Arab and Moslem countries were the ones evicted from thir homes by the soldiers after their familes had lived in the Middlle-East since the time of the bible, long before the birth of your Prophet. And Amerah, if you read this please spare this monkey-pig your mealy mouthed blessings. TIM

Tim on April 24, 2006 at 5:31 pm

LMFAO!
ofthebrainless and Ammerah are your typical deceptive Moslims.
For the third time – Ask any priest or rabbi and he will tell you that the God of Jews and Christians is NOT allah (the alleged god of Moslums). For them to say otherwise would REQUIRE them to abandon their beliefs and become Moslems, pure and simple.
FYI, allah was named by Mohammad and taken from the pagan Arab “moon god” (prior to Islam, Arabs had MANY pagan gods, and the moon god was one of them).
Islam = Religion of Submission (submission NOT to the will of allah, but rather, submission to the will of Mohammad, since allah was his invention).
Here are some quotes from the so-called peaceful and merciful allah (quotes, btw, that were dictated to Mohammad’s secretary, since the prophet Mohammad was illiterate).
Qurían:9:5 ìFight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.î
Qurían:9:112 ìThe Believers fight in Allahís Cause, they slay and are slain, kill and are killed.î
Qurían:9:29 ìFight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.î
Qurían:8:39 ìFight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.î
Qurían:8:39 ìSo fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).î
Ishaq:587 ìOur onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace.î
Qurían:48:16 ìSay (Muhammad) to the wandering desert Arabs who lagged behind: ëYou shall be invited to fight against a people given to war with mighty prowess. You shall fight them until they surrender and submit. If you obey, Allah will grant you a reward, but if you turn back, as you did before, He will punish you with a grievous torture.î
Qurían:48:22 ìIf the unbelieving infidels fight against you, they will retreat. (Such has been) the practice (approved) of Allah in the past: no change will you find in the ways of Allah.î
Qurían:47:4 ìWhen you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allahís Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam.î
Qurían:5:94 ìBelievers, Allah will make a test for you in the form of a little game in which you reach out for your lances. Any who fails this test will have a grievous punishment.î
Ishaq:578 ìCrushing the heads of the infidels and splitting their skulls with sharp swords, we continually thrust and cut at the enemy. Blood gushed from their deep wounds as the battle wore them down. We conquered bearing the Prophetís fluttering war banner. Our cavalry was submerged in rising dust, and our spears quivered, but by us the Prophet gained victory.î
Tabari IX:25 ìBy Allah, I did not come to fight for nothing. I wanted a victory over Taíif so that I might obtain a slave girl from them and make her pregnant.î
Tabari IX:82 ìThe Messenger sent Khalid with an army of 400 to Harith [a South Arabian tribe] and ordered him to invite them to Islam for three days before he fought them. If they were to respond and submit, he was to teach them the Book of Allah, the Sunnah of His Prophet, and the requirements of Islam. If they should decline, then he was to fight them.î
Muslim:C42B20N4684 ìA desert Arab came to the Prophet and said: ëMessenger, one man fights for the spoils of war; another fights that he may be remembered, and one fights that he may see his (high) position (achieved as a result of his valor in fighting). Which of these is fighting in the Cause of Allah?í The Messenger of Allah said: ëWho fights so that the word of Allah is exalted is fighting in the Way of Allah.íî
Qurían:2:193 ìFight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief) and religion is only for Allah. But if they cease/desist, let there be no hostility except against infidel disbelievers.î
Qurían:4:78 ìWherever you are, death will find you, even if you are in towers strong and high! So what is wrong with these people, that they fail to understand these simple words?î
I have a lot more (in Mohammad’s own words and deeds) to show anyone who is still not convinced that Islam is NO Religion of Peace, and that Mohammad was NO peaceful prophet.
For anyone who wants more, please ask and I’ll post it.
Islam is a combination of paganism and twisted Bible stories. Muhammad, its ONLY prophet, created his Islam solely to satisfy his lust for power, sex, and to enrich himself with what he could steal and plunder with the help of his brain-dead followers. He was a liar, a deceiver, a murderer, a pedophile, and a thief. In short, he was a terrorist.

Thee_Bruno on April 24, 2006 at 5:40 pm

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