January 3, 2011, - 3:59 pm

No Tears for Egypt’s Coptic Christians

By Debbie Schlussel

Many readers have contacted me over the weekend about the Islamic terrorist bombing of Coptic Christian churches in Egypt.  And, sorry, but, as I’ve noted before, you’ll get no tears from me over the Copts.  Unlike morons and ignoramuses like Scamela Geller, the car loan fraud scamming (using Muslim straw buyers) multi-millionairess dilettante, I am educated and actually know a lot about the Copts . . . a lot about Copt anti-Semitism and pogroms that this group led against the Jews of Egypt.  I’ve addressed the topic before, and it’s unfortunate that I must re-visit it again because there are so many ignorant people.  And people never learn.

popeshenouda

Coptic Pope Shenouda III:

No Different Than the Most Extremist, Anti-Semitic Muslim Clerics

The bombing of the Copts, as well as many attacks on Copts in Egypt by Muslims over the years, are a great example of how Muslims cannot live in peace with Christians.  But they are also a great example of karma.  It’s a bitch, and over the weekend, the bitch was Muslim.  And what goes around definitely comes around in the case of the Copts. In the case of the Copts versus the Muslims, I view it as I did the Iran-Iraq war and the larger feud between Shi’ite and Sunni Muslims.  I wish it could go on forever and that both sides would lose.

The Coptic Pope Shenouda III continues to regularly deliver anti-Semitic sermons and calls Jews “Christ-killers.”  And, in July 2008, he told Egypt’s Al-Ahram newspaper:

Jews are a cursed people who have their hands indulged in the blood of Palestinians.

He also forbade all Copts from visiting Jerusalem as long as it “remains occupied,” meaning as long as there are Jews there.

But he is not the first to incite Coptic violence against Jews.  In fact, the Copts were not only extremely anti-Semitic (as they continue to be), but they often led the Muslims in pogroms against the Jews of Egypt.  There are almost no Jews left in Egypt, and the Copts joined the Muslims in calling for the Jews’ expulsion.  Many Jewish homes and property were taken not by Muslims, but by Copts.

As in the case of many Christian groups in the Middle East, the Copts sided with Muslims in their persecution of the Jews.  And they bet on the wrong side.  Now that bet is coming back to bite them in the ass.  And you’ll see no tears or sympathy from me.  The Coptic Church was one of the most anti-Semitic churches in the Middle East and the most anti-Israel.  It’s not new.  And it hasn’t changed.

For instance, Severus Ibn Al-Muqaffa, a layman who became a top Coptic Bishop (the Bishop of Al-Ashmunein) one of the revered figures in Coptic Church history, viciously attacked the Jews and Judaism in his writings. While he often grouped the Jews with Muslims, whom he also hated, he often singled the Jews out for even more extreme hatred. That was in the 900s. And while hatred of the Jews has lessened in many Christian churches in contemporary times, the hatred of Jews in the Coptic church remains strong to date. Most Copts will not openly denounce or disagree with Pope Shenouda’s anti-Semitic incitement.  Most of them support Muslim calls for Israel’s destruction.

And, therefore, I couldn’t care less about what the Muslims do to the Copts. Like I said, it’s about evil fighting evil. Let G-d sort it out. I refuse to pick a side in this pit bull fight.

When I wrote about this, last year, Joseph, a 78-year-old Egyptian Jew who was expelled from the country, wrote to congratulate me for getting it right, while so many ignorant Jews and Christians get it wrong because they are so desperate for even the most questionable allies against Muslims and Islam, they refuse to get a clue:

Dear Debbie!

I read your article about Muslims killing Copts in Egypt….as i was born in that country…78 years ago…and lived there 26 years…i know enough the attitude of Copts about Jews!

Copts were the one that introduced virulent antisemite in Egypt…. becoming more effective when Christians came to that country from Syria and Levanon

I dont pretend that Muslims were not antijews…but not so much as they are today!

Please excuse my english… I write much better in french…and in hebrew!

I wanted to congratulate you and to wish you all the best!

Continue!

You are a light for the Jews!

all the best

joseph

If you side with the Copts, it’s no different than siding with Muslims. It’s a “distinction” without a difference.

To those of you who blindly and eagerly seize the moment to cry over the Copts, I dare you to ask your Coptic friends why they embrace a Pope who espouses such vehement anti-Jewish hate.

But even more, I dare them to answer. There simply isn’t an answer. As they say in Latin, “Res Ipsa Loquitur.”

The thing speaks for itself.

And one more thing: the protests, today, by Egypt’s Copts, against the attacks, still embrace the Muslims. Check out what Copts were shouting, as they marched:

A Muslim and a Copt hand in hand to create a new dawn.

Yup, a “new” dawn, where both sides still hate the Jews and want Israel eliminated. Message received … at least by me.

When will the other blind supporters of the Copts, who tolerate their and their Pope’s anti-Semitism, wake up?

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105 Responses

Sorry to see you had to re-post it.

People never learn that someone on side aren’t saints… they’re just as bad or even worse than the other side.

The Copts get what they deserve. And Jews should not feel sorry for them in the least. What comes around goes around!

NormanF on January 3, 2011 at 4:20 pm

“But they are also a great example of karma. It’s a bitch.”

Recently, the ever critical of Israel Swedes got a wake up when an Islamic terrorist set off a bomb that killed only himself. Given their growing Muslim population, it’s likely to get worse. Given Sweden’s indifference to the harassment of Jews in Malmo – the mayor blaming the Jews because they won’t distance themselves from Israel – I find it hard to feel sympathy for them.

And in England, it’s reported that Lauren Booth, half-sister in law to Tony Blair, who shills for the “poor suffering” Palestinians as she shops in well-stocked stores in Gaza and recently converted to Islam, is now bankrupt.

Karma. Yeah, it’s a bitch.

Raymond in DC on January 3, 2011 at 4:21 pm

Yup… the biblical adage that those who hate Israel will suffer is being fulfilled to the latter.

Oh and its not karma. As a religious person, I believe this is G-d at work in the world.

NormanF on January 3, 2011 at 4:26 pm

Has Oprah had the Copts on her show yet?

Little Al on January 3, 2011 at 4:34 pm

Thanks Debbie. I had no idea about Coptic anti-semitism.

JD on January 3, 2011 at 4:37 pm

All the conservative Israel web blogs are pitching this horror so the tip jar goes kaching kaching. Imagine, only the liberals are thought to be hypocrites and disingenuous. hmm. Think again. Surprise, surprise, we see conservatives quite enjoy half truths equally as much.

Bottom line, if Christians were really our friends they would decry the rotten behavior by their Muslim ‘hosts.’ They would stand before the world and tell the truth. The best example was the Catholic Church at Christmas Eve placing a sign on an empty chair at midnight mass which read: “HIS EXCELLENCY YASSAR ARAFAT.” Imagine, calling a sponsor and incubator of terror against Jews being called “his excellency.” Worse, not one world leader (not even those leaders thought to be friends) spoke against that.

Soon a mosque will sit atop manger square. It is the plan you know. Most sadly most of the Christian world who should have been screaming against the Muslims have been busy as usual acting out their ‘innate’ antisemitism against the innocent. Now Jews are blinded by false friendship. And to think only the liberal ones are stupid and blindsided!!

Susan on January 3, 2011 at 4:40 pm

First of all this response is to Susan – this is terrible news with the death of many innocent people. Just because a people disagree or even hate another people, does not mean they should be slaughtered in this manner. How man Jews hate Palesitians, and Muslims in general – this doesn’t mean all of them should be gassed or executed. Susan I am a Christian and have many jewish friends whom I would not wish harm on. “Christians were really our friends they would decry the rotten behavior by their Muslim”. Are you kidding me – if you don’t like Christians so much why don’t you leave America then…..exactly thats what I thought.
What the Jews like you Susan need to understand is that we have a tolerance in Christianity for all sides, Muslims, Jews, etc…. Some Christians are anti-semitic and thats terrible – but if you have a problem with all of us – then please do not live in our lands.

As Sean R. and Dr. Savage always say

“A Country is defined by its BORDERS, LANGUAGE, AND CULTURE”

Our Culture is a Christian one, one where we will protect everyone – so please do not say that if we were really your friends we’d protect you. This country went to war and guarantees Israel protection. Remember that next time you spew your anti-Christian words.

I am certain Debbie doesn’t espouse the same hatred to Christians that you do, read her articles on Christmas etc…

Jason

Jason Hains on January 3, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    How man Jews hate Palesitians, and Muslims in general – this doesn’t mean all of them should be gassed or executed.

    Dear Mr. Hains: Don’t you mean “How MANY Jews,” you (sic) man?Considering the number of Moslems who are committed to wiping the Jews off the planet, it’s really astounding how FEW Jews hate Moslems in general and the now-so-called “Palestinians” in particular.

    Miranda Rose Smith on January 4, 2011 at 5:32 am

Debbie, I was reading the Washington Post’s website and they did a good job on reporting this incident in Egypt over the weekend, but the Wastington Post failed to mention that the “Coptic-Christians” are anti-semeitc towards jewish people. And they (Washington Post) failed to say is that one of the coptic pope mentioned that jews are “jesus killers” as Ms. Schlussel wrote in this article. This is one of the reasons why I look for the exact facts, and that’s why this is one of the few websites that I depend on for the entire facts & truth. The other websites do a fine job til a certain extent, but there sorta afraid to dodge some of the issues, because I think they don’t want to “offend” some of their readers, and that’s why politically correctness is killing us all.

“A nation is identified by it’s borders, language & culture!”

Sean R. on January 3, 2011 at 5:28 pm

    Why should the Washington Post have mentioned that the Copts are antisemetic? Why does everything have to revolve around the poor Jews who think that they are always persecuted.
    A large group on innocent people were slaughtered and all you can think of is antisemitism. Maybe if you people weren’t so obsessed with the past, there would be no antisemitism. The Jews are the leaders of the pack when it comes to just plain racism. Karma is just another way of saying ‘an eye for an eye’. Thats not very humane is it?

    E: Ah, the Copt and Coptophilic Anti-Semitism comes out in full force. Thanks for demonstrating and confirming what I wrote. DS

    Egyptophile on January 3, 2011 at 9:53 pm

      “The Jews are the leaders of the pack when it comes to just plain racism.”

      Is that why Israel took in the Jews from India, the Ethiopians and the Boat People?

      Miranda Rose Smith on January 4, 2011 at 5:37 am

      This is an issue the Western Church has tried to confront with mixed success in the past few decades. The Eastern Churches haven’t tried at all. I’m not singling out the Copts in this regard – the Eastern Orthodox Churches are no better in their hatred of the Jews and Israel than the Muslims. I don’t think its politically incorrect to point out the truth. And the morally debased situation in Eastern Christianity requires sunlight in order to bring about a positive change. Its Christians in your part of the world that have that problem to address and not the Jews. Facts are stubborn things.

      NormanF on January 4, 2011 at 1:59 pm

This is a sick way of thinking.

I hope most Jews are not as sick as you, but more humane.

Greetings from a Copt.

Aigyptos on January 3, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    I’d have more sympathy for you if you denounced your church’s anti-Semitism with as much passion as you denounce this site’s webmaster.

    You don’t want to see Islam is the problem. And until you do, the Copts will only continue to suffer. Blaming the Jews won’t change it.

    NormanF on January 3, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    I suggest that you address the question of sickness to Pope Shenouda III. You previously abandoned the Jews to their fate, and now you stand alone before the Muslims who you strengthened.

    Worry01 on January 3, 2011 at 8:13 pm

    There is nothing Christian about you. Quit defiling my name. Get lost and don’t the let the door etc.

    As goes Israel, so goes the World... on January 4, 2011 at 11:51 am

Jason stated:
“First of all this response is to Susan – this is terrible news with the death of many innocent people. Just because a people disagree or even hate another people, does not mean they should be slaughtered in this manner. ”

First of all Jason where did I allude that the terrible news of innocent people dying by terrorism means they deserved to be slaughtered?

Then you wrote:
“How man Jews hate Palesitians, and Muslims in general – this doesn’t mean all of them should be gassed or executed.” Who said this? Why are you insinuating things that are not true. Furthermore, the following statement sums up the underpinnings of innate Antisemitism.
“What the Jews like you Susan need to understand is that we have a tolerance in Christianity for all sides, Muslims, Jews, etc…. Some Christians are anti-semitic and thats terrible – but if you have a problem with all of us – then please do not live in our lands.”

Jason, I can live wherever I please. Understand?

Furthermore, I do not hate Christians, not even Christians who hate me. Nowhere within my comment did I say I hated Christians or Muslims. I simply spoke the truth. You think it is tolerance for placing an empty chair of a terrorist in a Catholic Church, so be it.

This I know for certain, the day that mosque is built atop Manger square the pain of it will be on your shoulders, not mine. I warned of it, the ‘tolerant’ ignored it. Remember this, Jews did not chase Christians from anywhere in ME the appeasers of the RoP did. They are the real devils here.
As for those who are chased, we Jews have had quite our share of running from those who accused us wrongly. We are going nowhere now. Thank you.

Susan on January 3, 2011 at 5:41 pm

Dear fellow Copt.

I was horribly saddened by the terrorist attack one minute after midnight. This does not mean I should or will overlook Antisemitism from Coptic Christians against my people.

In the end my fellow brother of the human race it is not the Jew who is the devil. Enough demonizing Jews. Demonize those who kill the innocent. Speak out against those who killed your people. Even if it kills you!!!
It is indeed in your hands to free the whole of the Middle East from the tyrannical rule which promotes and incubates terrorism against those who are not Muslim.

Susan on January 3, 2011 at 5:48 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4whNbsH3h8&feature=player_embedded

AT THE COPTIC CHURCH, MUSLIMS WALKING ON THE DEAD.

SAL on January 3, 2011 at 6:16 pm

Susan,

I wasn’t saying don’t live here. I was saying if you don’t like Christians, then don’t live in a Christian country. We are more than happy to host you, but the minute you begin bashing us – then leave since you become no better than the other America Haters who come here, like our freedom, buy our products but bash our country. Its Christianity that holds the best hope to you protect you and your people.

Jason Hains on January 3, 2011 at 6:49 pm

    Hey Dillweed,

    Columbus had a Jewish navigator. Jews fought in all of America’s wars, including the Revolutionary War. Jews were among the first graduates of West Point, and among the first winners of the Medal of Honor. Jews have been responsible for most medical discoveries in this country, and for many other achievements.

    Yes, this country is overwhelmingly Christian, but don’t you dare suggest that we Jews are merely visitors. We are citizens, as much as you are. I would bet more of my ancestors spilled blood for this country and accomplished more than yours ever did.

    Jonathan Grant on January 3, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    Dear Jason:

    it’s not a question of hating Christians. It’s, umm, let me explain it to you thusly…not many Jewish people would care if Mel Gibson was persecuted for his Christian beliefs, because he’s basically a Nazi. On the other hand, if Pastor Hagee was getting slammed, I would hope someone would stand up for him.

    The Copts are Jew killers. Most Christians are not. Capisce?

    Occam's Tool on January 3, 2011 at 9:10 pm

      I wrote the comments before reading about Debbie’s take on Pastor Hagee—I’m glad to see her views agree with mine because her antennae are more sensitive. Yes, precisiely like an attack on Hagee (bad) versus one on Gibson (Who cares?).

      Occam's Tool on January 3, 2011 at 9:13 pm

Rhymes, that’s assuming they really want freedom. The sad truth is a good many Christian Arabs are good dhimmi apologists for Islam. They know its bad for them but they assume their Arab identity will make the Muslim Arabs more sympathetic to them. It hasn’t worked out that way as we all know. And Debbie is right, when both sides are evil, one shouldn’t have to pick a side and I heartily second her sentiment both sides should lose.

NormanF on January 3, 2011 at 7:05 pm

The Jews have more in common with the American Christians, than the Coptics have with the American Christians. Coptic Arabs also cheered on 9/11.

Jonathan Grant on January 3, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    Jon, its a feud between two branches of the Egyptian Cosa Nostra crime family.

    Tell me why I should care who wins their fight? I don’t.

    NormanF on January 4, 2011 at 6:04 am

Very, very interesting. Thank you for the insight, Debbie.

Paulette Daniels on January 3, 2011 at 7:58 pm

It is indeed an example that co-existence with Muslims in a predominantly Muslim country is not a real possibility. However, the Copts foolishly think that pandering to Muslims,in areas such as anti-Semitism,will earn them toleration from Muslims. That is not the case, and never has been. Once the Jews or any other group is gone that is viewed by Muslims as an enemy, they will turn on other non-Muslim groups just as quickly. The Copts are looking at the same fate that Jews endured in the past in Muslim countries.

Worry01 on January 3, 2011 at 8:07 pm

That Coptic Pope has no business being an anti-semite. It’s easy to tell from his appearance that he may be of Jewish ancestry. Check out his hair! It looks just like Moe from the Three Stooges!

CornCoLeo on January 3, 2011 at 8:14 pm

This is good information for me to have. I had a suspicion that there might be massive anti-semitism in various Christian churches in the Middle East, but I had no information on that. It seems that Christians at this time are being exterminated in the middle east. I would wish that the anti-semitic ones would be able to learn how evil this kind of brutality towards other people is before they die.

Edward Ewert

Edward Ewert on January 3, 2011 at 8:27 pm

Question, if Pamela Gellar is against islamofascism like Debbie is, then why didn’t Ms. Gellar do her homework on who exactly the coptic-christians really are. As Debbie reported on this site on some occasions, but the coptic christians are anti-semites and no different from the islamist, left wing communist & socialist (about half of them are jewish descent, sad but true).

“A nation is identified by it’s borders, language & culture!”

SR: Because Scamela Geller isn’t against or for ANYTHING, other than if it will get her on television and garner her fame and attention and money, which is why she engaged in car loan fraud scams using Muslim straw buyers, which resulted in the murder of two people, including her one honest employee who was reporting on her fraud to police and one of the cops on the case. She’s a criminal and a total fraud and whore who wants attention. The only principle she’s ever held consistently is her belief in (bad) plastic surgery and filling her bank account no matter the cost (to others). DS

Sean R. on January 3, 2011 at 8:28 pm

Thank you for the rather frank exchange of views that we had via email. Let me say publicly what I said privately — my goal was not to validate the folks who attack Israel over the Liberty incident, nor to compare you personally to them. And let me publicly apologize for any inelegance in how I expressed myself that led to your understanding matters differently.

That said, let me again express my discomfort with the notion that anyone, even those who hold terribly wrong-headed views, “deserves” to be killed or wounded in a terrorist attack because of their race, ethnicity, or religion. Terrorism is wrong, no matter who it is directed at and no matter how contemptible we may find the beliefs and actions of the victims.

Perhaps the best analogy I can make is to abortion facilities and the abortionists who work there. As much as I reject and condemn abortion, I cannot say that the bombing of those offices or the killing of those individuals is somehow morally neutral or even acceptable — such deeds are still wrong and those who commit them still commit a grave evil, even though they target that which is also evil. The same holds true in the case of the bombing of this church, even if each and every one of the victims held to anti-Semitic views. There are no acceptable targets of terrorism, and there are no acts of terrorism that are not deserving of our condemnation.

Rhymes With Right on January 4, 2011 at 12:25 am

Debbie
This is not the only article you will ever have to repost in your lifetime, you will be reposting many others. You will be repeating yourself more than you ever care to, especially since you are a public figure.
Thank you for all that you do.

Patrick on January 4, 2011 at 1:46 am

Yeah this is exactly why I have mixed feelings about the growing Muslim menace in Europe and the UK. Oh boo hoo the poor Jew-hating Eurotrash who support the jihad against us, and it bites them back. Of course not all Europeans, and the children are innocent. The children have to pay for the folly of their elders, as it has always been, and so it will always be.

Frankly Debbie this is why I am indifferent to the growing jihadist threat against Jews in America, sorry but the apathy and could-care-less attitude about Israel and please-like-me-my-fellow-idiot-liberals zeitgeist of the majority of American Jews (80% of them voted for the Jew-hater Obama, you have no idea how he is hated here unless you are here in Israel). Of course not all the Jews, plenty are pro-Israel like Debbie but in general, they are pathetic and it’s scandalous. Nothing is ever learned.

It has gotten to the point where I would sympathise far more with middle America if they suffered a terrorist attack than if the liberal Jews and WASPs in New York (who have learned nothing from 9-11) with their idiot mayor Bloomberg who is so representative of dumbass NY Jews, suffered a terrorist attack. The NY Times is an anti-Semitic paper and as long as New York “Jews” continue to support it, well at best they are apathetic. And they have less excuse than non-Jews.

Notice how all the anti-Semites in America (the Left and the paleocons) try and pretend that the reason that Muslims hate you so much is America’s debatable support for Israel. So why do they hate the Copts so much? Don’t expect an honest answer from the anti-Semites on this one, any more than they can answer you why they hate women, Buddhists and Hindus and apostates so much.

Larry in Tel Aviv on January 4, 2011 at 1:56 am

    Oh my, Larry in Tel Aviv, sounds like you suffer from a clear
    case of “MY SH*T NEVER STINKS.”

    Next time you cry over Jerusalem remember the U.S. President who in his first campaign (13 years ago) made quite a significant and meaningful promise to conservative middle of the road Jews like myself. A promise I took to heart. A promise which elevated my heart. A promise which sits at the very center of my heart, which is Jerusalem. George Bush promised that in his first week of office he would sign the embassy act. You tell me Larry in TA to whom did Bush appease by not signing it in his 8 years in office other than the Arab/Muslim world?? Look in the mirror Larry in TA and tell me that.

    Tell me why George Bush like Obama traveled to the capitals of the ME and spoke of how Israel humiliates Palestinians by their occupation of them? For whom was he appeasing when he stated such things? Who did Bush ax the embassy act for? Tell me. To whom was he appeasing when he spoke of how Israel must not deny the Palestinians their “rightful homeland” while denying the very capital of Israel to whom he did not even send a flunky representative of his administration to the ceremonies of the Anniversary of the Reunification of Jerusalem?

    Who was Bush appeasing when he stated very clearly that the Palestinian homeland must be “contiguous, viable and not look like SWISS CHEESE?” Who was our president appeasing when he elevated a DENIER OF THE SHOAH to a MAN OF PEACE?

    Bush never missed a chance of throwing occupation in the face of Israel upon every world stage he spoke, yet when he came to visit Israel the most significant thing he could say was upon leaving, “take good care of Olmert.” (his ultra liberal puppet to whom that puppethood led to the appeasement of every arch enemy of Israel on the planet…including the Bush formulated quartet for peace composed of 3 arch enemies of Israel.)

    So when you throw around the terms liberal and self hating Jew in the most salacious of sentences possible, ask yourself why for the most part why the hierarchy of the Republican party was VOICELESS when Bush screwed Israel over?

    Sir, what Bush gave me for voting for him was a huge dent in my tax dollars for a people hell bent on the destruction of Israel. Matter of fact, post 9-11 sir, WAR ON TERROR, when the average Israeli had barely buried their dead following the worst intifada a ‘Republican’ president dumped an all time high $$ amount upon the PA to their leader a denier of the Shoah who was nothing more than incubator of terror. Then that said Republican president (known to be the BEST FRIEND OF ISRAEL) TOOK EVEN MORE OF my tax dollars to train the PA security forces who in plain view of the world marched to the nazi goose step.

    So here it is. You like to talk about all the lefty Jews who voted for Obama. While Bush was screwing Israel over the majority of Republican Jews in the hierarchy of the Republican party were silent…including those Jews who wrote for publications, prominent blogs and newspapers. My guess is Israel only means something to anyone ‘political’ when the the other guy is in power. Think about it.

    thanks.

    Susan on January 4, 2011 at 11:53 am

To those making the ignorant comments above accusing JEWS of hatred -this is simply NOT the case (and it is a discussion for another time why the real haters among us often seem to get the upper hand).

Muslim hate and violent acts speak for themselves. But so does anti-Semitic rhetoric and acts committed by other groups.

This article has helped me understand the very negative attitude toward me I’ve noticed from some Coptic Christian neighbors – right here in the USA! And I think we should also consider the possible influence of the background of such folks when they are public servants. As usual, thanks, Debbie

Cat K on January 4, 2011 at 3:02 am

I get what you’re saying, but @ the end of the day, I put Muslims right @ the bottom of the heap. Sure, I’d take the Jewish side over the Copts, Melkites, Greek Orthodox & other Christian denominations, but I wouldn’t be ok w/ any wins for the Muslim side like I would an Alien vs Predator scenario. Heck, I’d even support Communists against Muslims, if it came to that!

If Israel was hypothetically surrounded by a Coptic Egypt, Maronite Lebanon, Melkite Syria and Eastern Orthodox Jordan, do you think they’d still be as existentially threatened as they are by Muslims?

Infidel Pride on January 4, 2011 at 3:26 am

Wow you are on sick ass Jew.

L: Ah, the anti-Semites come out and show their true colors. They have no prob with Copts murdering Jews and preaching for more such murders. But when the Copts get that poetic justice in return, well . . . their lives are worth more. Thanks for demonstrating exactly the point I’m making. There’s nothing sick about not mourning your enemies’ and killers’ deaths. There’s something sick about those who expect me to. Something stupid and weak, too. And anti-Semitic. DS

lucifer on January 4, 2011 at 3:30 am

    You stay classy with those low class anti-Semitic comments of yours!

    Thanks for sharing with us what you think and bye!

    NormanF on January 4, 2011 at 5:55 am

Debbie,you cunt, disliking Jews does not warrant getting blown to pieces.

SF: You stay classy. Killing Jews and preaching for their death may be hazardous to your health . . . as the Copts are now learning. I don’t shed a single tear for them. Sorry. DS

systemic failure on January 4, 2011 at 4:09 am

    You’ve confirmed why I could care less about the Copts’ fate. You’re too steeped in Jew-hatred as they’re to acknowledge that that the losing side isn’t necessarily a force for good.

    And I’ll say it again: I wish both sides would lose.

    NormanF on January 4, 2011 at 5:59 am

    Hey SF, Nobody is wishing anybody gets blown to pieces except the Muslims who wish that Israel be exterminated and wiped off the face of the Earth.
    Just because one dislikes Jews does not mean that all Jews want you blown to pieces.
    That kind of death-wish is exclusively the Muslim way. Check your premise.
    Look at all the Liberal Jews who have their heads in sand and still think that Islam is a religion of Peace and that Muslims can be trusted not to betray them.

    Who cares? on January 4, 2011 at 8:53 am

    I don’t think Debbie is focusing so much on the act of bombing itself than on the fact that those who oppress and persecute now get a taste of what being oppressed and persecuted is like.

    Anorak on January 4, 2011 at 9:09 am

To lucifer & systemic failure: If you 2 living rebuttals to Darwin’s Theory have nothing worthwhile to add to this blog then by all means stay off of it. The Egyptian coptics are now learning what happens to those who intentionally make flawed choices in life. Debbie is just telling thr truth. If you can’t handle the truth, then please move over to the huffington post & interact with your fellow bigots.

Mark Tesla on January 4, 2011 at 5:11 am

Dear Debbie: Was there ever a more vicdious bunch of pogromchiking, Nazi-collaborating anti-Semites than the Ukrainians? Do you think they deserved to be starved to death by the millions in Stalin’s, may his name be erased, man-made famine?

MRS: Yes, there were more vicious groups, like the Copts. Regardless, I don’t shed a single tear for the Jew-killing Ukrainians who were killed or for the Copts. Sorry, I don’t cry for my enemies. That’s for wimps and leftists. Not for me. DS

Miranda Rose Smith on January 4, 2011 at 5:25 am

    Dear Debbie: Was there ever a more vicious bunch of pogromchiking, Nazi-collaborating anti-Semites than the Ukrainians? Do you think they deserved to be starved to death by the millions in Stalin’s, may his name be erased, man-made famine?

    Miranda Rose Smith on January 4, 2011 at 5:25 am

    Reply

    Miranda Rose Smith on January 4, 2011 at 5:35 am

It is not my instinct to take joy in the bombing of a church.

It is also not my instinct to believe that Christians are philo-Semitic. I think the United States of America is one of the few countries in the world were Christians are generally philo-Semitic. Even here in the USA, 1/5 to 1/4 of our society (which is largely Christian) routinely proves to be anti-Semitic according to public opinion polls.

Because most of us live in the United States, it’s our normal instinct to feel sympathy for Christians whose church is bombed by Muslims. We think Egyptian Copts are “just like us”. Well, they’re not!

It’s not like I wish them harm, but like Debbie, I’m not overflowing with sympathy for them. Moreover, if you think this is bad, wait until Hosni Mubarak kicks the bucket!

There is NO Santa Claus on January 4, 2011 at 9:11 am

I believe it was Julius Caesar who said, “DIVIDE AND CONQUER”, wasn’t it? In the movie “CONAN THE BARBARIAN”, Conan and the ARCHER whom he rescued had a scene in which each argued about WHO’S GOD WAS MORE POWERFUL. Well, do we see a pattern here? If one believes in a specific religion and someone else believes in another religion, so what! If a specific religion is based upon violence and persecution of other religions, yes, there is a problem that is self-evident…violence and physical harm by one against the other. Each of us has the individual right to believe as his conscience dictates – in light of morals, ethics, and just laws – but each individual does not have the right to impose, force, or punish another to accept a religious belief, thus, Islamic Jihadists are morally wrong. What I do not understand is why one religion disparages another? Is it for the saving of souls or for the savings of monetary donations or solely for power and control? And, if it matters to anyone, I am not a religious person and I am not anti-religious. Please have some faith in your fellow man and let him follow his personal beliefs unless it espouses violence and harms you or your fellow man. Read the U.S.Declaration of Independence and note “endowed by our creator…”. Focus your outrage against those who would deny the existence of and eliminate those inherent, unalienable Rights we, as sovereign individuals, possess because we exist and live and, in a religious context, were given by “G*D”.

Dennis on January 4, 2011 at 11:02 am

wow.. some people’s stupidity has indeed no limits, so dozens of people deserve to die, b/c their pope is supposedly not a fan of jews???
wake up and smell the coffee no one deserves to die and the world doesn’t revolve around the jews!

angel kiss on January 4, 2011 at 11:53 am

    angel kiss revealed her/himself:

    “wake up and smell the coffee no one deserves to die and the world doesn’t revolve around the jews!”

    And to top off all the antisemitic buzz words and antisemitic statements,Jew spelled in lower case, did you see that?

    BTW I would like to add that we see this affinity to once again blame Jews coming from Conservatives not only liberals. Lesson learned. I hope. Our Christian ‘friends’ part the ways when we appear to attack any Christian even when the ‘attack’ is honest and true. Remember the famous antisemite (most of our friends were silent about) who made a movie called Passion of Christ? That move once again and quite blatantly brought up the libel Jews killed Christ in not only the spoken statements within that movie but by portraying Jews in that film as dark, sinister and ugly. So when we spoke out against it we as Jews were attacked for daring to speak the truth. When the Pope’s minions claim Jews have no rights to Jerusalem and other famous misstatements our friends are silent then as well. Oh yes, as if only liberal mainstream Christianity is Anti Israel, anti Jewish. NOT!!!

    Rather than take sides Jews should learn while we do have some friends, we predominantly stand alone. We will go further for ourselves that way. As Jews we must act with caution. Bottom line Ms. Geller and some other conservative Jewish blogger’s (kaching kaching in the tip jar) are being used ditto liberal Jews as well. Self imposed blindness is pervasive on both sides of the isle. I have witnessed many Jewish conservative blogs saying nothing when attacked by the Catholic Church and others yet scream and yell when mainline Christian Churches real their antisemitic heads. Politics as usual,hypocritical and shameful. What a shame.

    Susan on January 4, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    You totally miss the point. These are the same people that side with the Muslims against the Jews. Indeed, these same people celebrated 9/11. Your anti-Semitism blinds you to the point that Debbie is making.

    Jonathan Grant on January 4, 2011 at 1:09 pm

      It would be great if Jews had only one enemy – this thread has reminded us there are more than a few to go around who don’t mind the Muslim program as long as its not directed against them. People need to wake the heck up!

      NormanF on January 4, 2011 at 1:53 pm

F*CK it..Let’s start WW3 and wipe out all these Mooses (who haven’t contributed shit to the human race except homicide bombers), progressives, liberals, scums who are anti-America or anti-Semite…The two cultures who have given more to the world are targeted by evil low lifes, yellow belly country betraying liberal cowards and politically correct b*tches. Give me a break. F*ck y’all!! And,yes, Angel Kiss, some people need to be killed. Learn the truth. There’s evil and it should be exterminated at all costs. History repeats itself and I’m afraid we’re heading the same path as 1939. Oh, yeah, one more thing: the world evolves around decent people, whether they be Jews, Americans, Australians, South Americans..It doesn’t matter as long as they’re decent. Other than that, sight alignment, sight picture – easy steady squeeze….

The Sarge on January 4, 2011 at 12:43 pm

i did not know the copts were jew haters…

good to know.

howardroark43 on January 4, 2011 at 7:52 pm

I almost forgot…the definition of “anti-Semitism” is “criticism of Jews”. Can’t have that.

My Posting Career on January 5, 2011 at 12:21 am

The real question is, “Who isn’t an antisemite?” amiright?

PRCalDude on January 5, 2011 at 12:43 am

So when Jewish neoconservatives like Natan Sharansky, Bernard Lewis, Bill Kristol, Podhertz, Wolfowitz, and the AIPAC crowd heavily influenced us into invading Iraq which led to the destruction of the million-strong Chaldean Christian community in Iraq, can we therefore sling the same bile at Jews generally for their involvement?

PRCalDude on January 5, 2011 at 12:46 am

“heavily influenced us into invading Iraq which led to the destruction of the million-strong Chaldean Christian community in Iraq, can we therefore sling the same bile at Jews generally for their involvement?”

My English is awful, so… sometimes I don’t know if it’s my fault for not being able to understand people’s points or if they are just plain stupid.
Copts took part in the killing and looting of jewish property in Egypt. Some say they were not only part, but were one of the most important and active parts…
And as far as I know assyrians are being slaughtered in Iraq by muslims. Maybe one of the two or three starving 85 years-old jewish widows are responsible too. (makes more sense than to blame Bernard Lewis and “neoconservatives”…

This statement is as stupid as blaming the COLLAPSE of the government of Rashid Ali in Iraq for the Farhud and not its pro-nazi stand and the jew hatred of iraqi muslims.

Don José Manuel Fernando Villareal de Assumpción Gomez Bolaños Smith on January 5, 2011 at 2:15 am

I used to know a few Coptic Egyptians who spewed such hatred against Jews that I asked them a couple of times if they were actually moslems. It seems that they were brought on the staple hate-joos diet that Indian and paki moslems are fed on before they start drinking the standard goat milk.

No tears from me too! I would usually be upset if a church was bombed, but not with coptic ones.

Anonymous Twit on January 5, 2011 at 2:16 am

Dear Debbie and all my fellow human beings that are reading and commenting on this article. Let me try to clarify the situation from my perspective as an Egyptian Moslem. Apparently, there is a big confusion and misunderstanding in what is being said on behalf of Moslems and Christians in this article and the comments too. Let me try to explain and please be patience as it might be a bit long. Out of my understanding of both Islam and Christianity, neither religions have any problem with Judaism or any other religion or belief. Moreover, they both admit that Judaism is a heavenly religion that they embrace it and its Prophet Mousses “may peace be upon him”. Saying this would raise a question of why then all this detesting and may be hatred that Jews feel from other religions and beliefs followers, and the answer is so simple. Muslims and Christians – specially Coptic – and other people around the world do not hate Jews, but they hate Israel and all what it represents. And here comes the real issue of mixing Israel with Judaism. in our point of view, Israel does not represent Judaism, Israel is a political machine that is hiding behind Judaism to occupy others’ land and slave its people. Not only Copts and Muslims hate what Israel represents, even some Jews do protest against Israel in the whole world. So let’s not mix a noble Godly message as Judaism with a monstrous abusive machine as in Israel.
Now comes this so called “Anti Semitism” accusation that is being thrown in our faces day and night every time we criticize Israel or denounce its anti-human crimes. To be frank with you, I don’t understand how come that we be Anti-Semitic while we are Semitic, it is well known that Arabs are exactly as Semitic as Jews. In reality, Israel is the Anti Semitic by its Occupation of the Arab Lands and by the killing it does every day in Palestine.
This does not mean that there aren’t some maniacs like Bin Laden or Zawhery or others that are killing innocent people in the name of Islam and/or other religions, but these are not considered men of God under any belief, not in Islam, nor in Christianity or Judaism or any other religion. Actually, all religions call these the “men of Satan”.
This is a point of view of an Egyptian Moslem that knows his religion very well and really loves all human beings and wishes them the best no matter their views or believes are. I really invite you Debbie to come to Egypt to see how people of all religions live together and both detest such coward actions against innocent civilians.

Sherif Sabry on January 5, 2011 at 8:37 am

Dear Debbie,
I am appalled by your generalizations that Copts are antisemtic. There may have been some inappropriate comments by the head of the Coptic Church. He has been always a controversial figure. Myself as a Coptic Christain, I do not hate Jews or even Muslims. I actually love Jews whom I consider my spiritual ancestors as I read the Old Testament and realize that the Children of Israel where chosen and entrusted by God. I believe that eliminating all kinds of “Hate Speech” is paramount to a better future. My heart weeps for all kinds of injustices in the world. I believe in the right of Israel to exist and be respected by her neighours. I believe that Muslims should reform their religion as to eliminate all kinds of bigotry and false delusional superiority. I hope that you re-think your statement and consider remember the Biblical command not to hate an Egyptian because you were a guest on his land.
Peace.

Emad Eskander on January 5, 2011 at 11:10 am

To the “Sherif”: I don’t have a problem with faith or God, but I take issue with their enforcement.

To me, Islam is no better or no worse than X-tianity, Judaism, Hinduism, paganism, etc. But the leadership, the trusteeship of your faith leaves a lot to be desired. Like all other faiths, Islam is about political power of one group of people over others, hence the concept of a “chosen people” as evidenced by the predominant language in the main scriptures (Hebrew/Aramaic for Judaism; Latin/Greek for X-tianity; Arabic for Islam; Sanskrit for Hinduism, Buddhism; etc).

So it’s interesting to note that in spite of the triumphalism indicated in their respective scriptures, most faiths have embraced transparency, tolerance and progress. Islam, for some reason, appears somehow trapped in a holding pattern considering its obvious fragmentation into different sects, schools, trains of thought. So while one would see “Jihad” as a internal, spiritual, metaphysical struggle, another one would see it as a purely external, primal, physical war. From personal experiences, the loudest sects get the most ink, and they’re all screaming for the latter rather than the former.

Yes – “organised religion” is about RACE. The only reason that X-tianity seems to get the upper hand is that its original custodian, Emperor Theodosius I, wanted to unite the disparate peoples that made up his empire, finding a breakaway Jewish sect and adding a few flourishes to satisfy the pagans. Voila! You have the Catholic (“Universal”) Church – itself not a saint when it comes to racial intolerance, but at least the implied universality of Christianity’s application eventually allowed the Renaissance, the Enlightenment, discovery and colonization.

Islam, OTOH, appears to imply the triumph of one group of people over another.

Strangely enough, Judaism preaches the same thing. The only difference is that in Judaism, the triumph comes in form of faith in God and the keeping of his covenants, and that if anyone were to raise a sword against them, there would be a sevenfold retribution.

Islam from my standpoint, is a little more proactive. As per the Qur’an, Whitey can’t be a Muslim, Darkies can’t be Muslim and don’t get anyone started on the Jews. The only people who can be true Muslims are those of “das Volk”, and only these people. And since Islam means “submission”, these believers had to look up to their respective trustees who would control what they could be allowed see, hear, do. And somehow, the trustees tend to target the most malleable, marginalized and desperate, which is why amongst Arab X-tians and Jews there would be more intellectuals, hence making them easy targets for oppression and murder.

Which is why there I am not surprised by the attitudes by some Arab X-tians vis-a-vis the Jews: they don’t want to appear to be “race-traitors” (or “Rasse-Verraeter”).

Which is why the Copts would probably want to blame the Jews for the bombing even though they were long targeted by the Muslim majority. They don’t want to look bad in front of their neighbours.

Enough of my bloviating. It took over 2000-5000 years to ensure that we can all get along. What’s another thou-or-two?

The Reverend Jacques on January 5, 2011 at 12:07 pm

Dear Rev. Jacques,
Although this reply was not directed towards my previous message. I just want to say that the Copts did not, will not blame any one for their miseries other than the ideologies of Islam and its promise of the 72 virigins in “Paradise”. I repeat that Islam needs to be reformed. That does not mean that as a Coptic Christian I hate or dislike muslims who are after all human beings and they were blessed by God Jehovah being the descendents of Ismail, son of Hagar and Abraham. ( Please review Genesis 16) As of what is claimed that the Copts are blaming the Jews, this is totally ridiculous. I agree that there was some inappropriate comments by the Pope of Alexandria in the past (nothing recently), but remember that he is overall a “Dhimmi” and acts under the concept of “Dhimmitude”, trying subconsciously to please his masters, the muslim Arab occupiers of Egypt. He is also a failed political man. Politics were actually imposed on him. If you do not understand what I am talking about, I urge you to read the book of Mark Duire ” The Third Choice”.
Peace.

Emad on January 5, 2011 at 4:38 pm

Thanks, Debbie, for this information on anti-semitism among Copt Christians. I was not aware of this fact. As you say, as well, many Middle East Christian groups sided with Muslims in their hate for Jews. #1. This explains to me why many Christians have been removed from Middle East countries. They were on the wrong side. #2. Among all those Copt Christians, surely there are some brave believers who would stand for Israel, as I have befriended one. #3. Like Rahab the Harlot in the Old Testament who proved her availability to God for his service, maybe you should look beyond Pamela Geller’s checkered past and address her with more respect as she may have also proved her availability to God to be used by him in our time.

Raymond on January 5, 2011 at 10:25 pm

Debbie, you are way off base here. As an Orthodox Christian, I have missed the rabid anti-semitism you talk of. I read the actual quotes attributed to Pope Shenouda III, and don’t see anti-semitism, rather I see a non-sugar coated response to some questions. The Roman Catholic Church did not apologize for their role in anti-semitism, but the actions of a few in their religious capacity within The Church. Eastern Orthodoxy is generally very cognizant wrt its very strong Jewish heritage. The Divine Liturgy of most Orthodox Churches is steeped in Jewish worship practices.
If you read a more detailed history of Jewry in Egypt, you might see that not many Egyptian Jews supported Israel, as a practical matter. In fact, the Jewish disapora from Egypt was not towards Israel, but largely elsewhere.
Blood libel….Lordy. I could make a more convincing argument that the Roman Empire was responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus. Clearly, Pope Shenouda III can hit a lot of folks buttons, but the arguments being raised against him are as old as they are nonsence.

Rick on January 6, 2011 at 9:35 pm

To all contributing to this blog:
1- Copts have never been involved in discrimination agiant Jews. No single fact the writer can come up with that would support her case. Pope Shenouda’s words were taken out of context, that same way opprtunistic people and secret service agents in dicatatorship states would do to convict an innocent. the author should observe, if she’s objective, that all quotes she came up with were published in Muslim run media and the pope in such comments was adressing jews in the days of Jesus Christ.To all Chrsitian, those were the culprits in crucifying Jesus.
2- Copts, like all Christians, would put tolerance and forgiveness high in their moral values. theyu would never, for example, show such lack of compassion and ruhtlessness towards Jews suffering persecution in any country
3- The only people in the middle east who whould support the Haulocost are Copts! Take a look at many Coptic webistes
4- Copts in Egypt are suffering from waves of systematic persecution for centuries, starting from 650 AD. Waves are sometimes high or low!
5- “Judge not, that thee would not be judged”

Joe on January 8, 2011 at 5:23 am

WOW!
The world is on fire and all you can do is hand around the blame, be petty little bitches and check, if there is some more (self-)pity to be had by invoking the good old “Eye-for-an-eye” or “Serves them right!”
Pathetic…

alipius on January 9, 2011 at 6:03 pm

I am a copt.

The actions of the italian copts is not a reflection of all copts.

In sydney the Jews and Copts stand in 100% solidarity.

Please Forgive these ignorant people.

God Bless the Jews and state of Israel.

I 100% support the copts and stand in solidarity with them and the Jewish community in sydney can attest to that.

Assad on January 10, 2011 at 8:07 pm

You words are an example of an ignorant talking crap thinking he/she is smart.

A- Are you God or were you connected to what happened to that Church bec so far no one claimed responsibility ( the quada affiliate retracted on that) and the investigation is still on. Yet, we have you claiming its an “Islamic” attack, whatever that means.

B- Egyptian Christians, like most of us Egyptians be it Muslims or non-Muslims have made a correct decision never to support occupation. The gov can have its treaty, some business ppl choose money over principles thats fine but we the ppl MOSTLY do not normalise relations with an occupying force who still thinks its above others and still refuses to give the inhabitants of Palestine (Christians and Muslims) their rights. We appreciate Pope Shenouda’s decision and we appreciate that Christians in Egypt are making a tough choice since Palestine is their destination for pilgrimage while for Muslims its the second after Mecca and Medina.
C- Our societies have always been multi-faith. Our countries were not founded on religions, unlike the man-made Israel. The creation of Israel affected the religious diversity in our region another aspect of what he had to suffer bec of the selfish choices of Western powers in supporting such inhumane installation. Having said that, we remain far more tolerant to others than you will ever be. Also, the majority of Muslims are against any attacks on religious minorities and it was normal citizens of Egypt who made the call for protection of churches and show of solidarity with our fellow citizens. The West cant and wont protect them unless there is a benefit to gain and you should be ashamed looking at how US invasion put minorities in Iraq under direct threat and turned Iraq into an unsafe field for all including Muslims, all for the sake of maintaining control over it and its resources.
D- What did the US do during WWII with its citizens from Japanese origins? Locked them up. Egyptian Jews were also affected by the Zionist movement some did more than just agreeing and was involved in espionage and “terrorist” attacks in their own country and for all of you please read on the Lavon Affair scandal. True, not all Arab Jews were unfaithful to their countries but some among them were and many others started selling off their properties and fleeing the country early one and others remained but lived in states that were shocked to find out that in the middle of their struggle for independence from Colonial powers, they are betrayed by fellow citizens who chose Zionism over their own countries. True official decisions were not proper but throwing this all on us is unfair. Better look at the result of encouraging and allowing a faith based country to be made on top of the lives and future of Palestinians.
To the so-called “copt” who supports Israel, its ppl like you who are actually part of the problem, used any thing to flee the country, think others are not Egyptian enough and think that Israel that didnt care for Palestinian Christians will protect you!! They dnt help minorities w/o a price.
To all others including this blogger talking about things they dnt knw, either say smthng good or hold your peace.

Egygirl on January 11, 2011 at 6:11 am

You will be lucky if you never see the day when you realize that you have turned into your worst enemy. You have become what you despise the most.

Natasha on January 12, 2011 at 2:19 pm

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