April 28, 2011, - 8:11 pm

Lara Logan, Liar/Sexist: Denies Knowing Muslims Abuse Women; Says Gang Rape is How Men WorldWide (Not Muslims) Treat Women

By Debbie Schlussel

**** SCROLL DOWN FOR UPDATE ****

Wow.  Lara Logan is either an huge liar or an incredible moron.  I vote, Frickin’ Fraud. She’s turning her rape at the hands of Muslims into a politically correct, sexist, worldwide attack on “men” worldwide, claiming this is how all men treat women, including American and Western men. She says her rape “reaffirms the oppressive role of men in society.” Yup, Lara Logan’s rape by Muslims is a sign that all men around the world are rapists. Uh-huh.

islamiccrescent.jpg

Alhamdillullah [Praise allah], Islam Fan Lara Logan Whitewashes Islam, Muslim Gang Rapists, Muslim Treatment of Women

In her first official interview about her sexual assault in Egypt at the hands of the “moderate,” “liberal” Muslim “democrats” over whom she endlessly cheered and gushed on TV, Lara Logan says she didn’t know about “Egyptian” (yet another euphemism for “Muslim”) abuse of women, and she still won’t even utter the words Muslim or Islam. She then says of 200-300 men in Tahrir Square who gang-raped her,

They raped me with their hands.

She says it lasted for 40 minutes.  Hmmm . . . raped for 40 minutes by a few hundred Muslims, and she just didn’t have the guts to tell us who did it, or to tell the world about it, then, when it mattered.  Instead, she and her fellow mainstream media reporters, along with many mindless, stupid conservatives, cheered on these people as “liberals,” as “moderates,” as “democrats,” as preferred to U.S. ally and stable leader Hosni Mubarak.

And, Lara, as the execrable Dr. Phil would ask, “Howz that workin’ for ya?”  Not to mention, how is it working for non-Muslims, for the U.S., for the West, for Israel, for the Middle East.  Not good in any respect.

And as for her lie that she didn’t know about “Egyptian” abuse of women, if she’s that utterly ignorant, she had no business being a reporter there.  This woman has covered the Middle East for years.  She knows very well about Muslim abuse of women.  She’s lying through her teeth.  A Frickin’ Fraud.

Sorry, but responsible rape victims call out their rapists.  Lara Logan won’t.  Again, she won’t mention the I (Islam) or M (Muslim) words–they aren’t mentioned once in the interview.  That’s because she’s a phony, no better than your average cowardly rape victim who allows the rapist to do it again.  She’s much worse, though, because she presented her gang rapists as liberal democrats to the world and never bothered to correct the record.  Not even now, well after the fact.  And she continues to lie to allow her gang rapists to gang rape again.

Um, there is no nebulous “they” who raped here with their hands.  It’s Muslims who raped her with their hands.  She has a microphone, a bully pulpit, and a responsibility to say so.  But she won’t.  She’s not a rape victim I’ll feel sorry about.  She’s a fraud.  Anyone who claims they didn’t know that Muslims abuse women is either blind, deaf, and dumb or living on another planet.  And she’s none of these.  She knew, but she’s politically correct . . . and so she lies.  It’s the same stuff I read on t-shirts of thugs and schmucks in the Detroit ghetto:  Bros Over Hos.  In Logan’s case it’s Islamic Bros Over Hos.  Her political correctness trumps calling out rapists.  Yup, she’s a ho, all right . . . for Islam.  Whoring out her integrity to protect Muslim gang rapists.

The real victims here are the dummies around America who watched her cheerleading reports about her gang rapists and never saw her make a correction.

The world attacked me when I called Lara Logan out for cheering on savage Muslims as liberal democrats and then getting a taste of the “liberation” over which she gushed.  But I was right then.  And I’m right now.  This interview with her–in which political correctness and pan-Muslims lies trump even her own rape story–says it in spades.

Yes, several hundred Muslims raped her with their hands. But she rapes the minds of billions around the world with her politically correct lies and attempts to cover up the fact that this is Islam–that this is how Muslims treat women.

Apparently, the only group of people in the world you’re allowed to identify as rapists are White Christian Duke Lacrosse players who never raped anyone.

More from this phony, who will never once mention Islam or Muslims, despite the fact that a few hundred of these savage believers in allah raped her for nearly an hour:

Lara Logan thought she was going to die in Tahrir Square when she was sexually assaulted by a mob on the night that Hosni Mubarak’s government fell in Cairo.

Ms. Logan, a CBS News correspondent, was in the square preparing a report for “60 Minutes” on Feb. 11 when the celebratory mood suddenly turned threatening. She was ripped away from her producer and bodyguard by a group of men who tore at her clothes and groped and beat her body. “For an extended period of time, they raped me with their hands,” Ms. Logan said in an interview with The New York Times. She estimated that the attack lasted for about 40 minutes and involved 200 to 300 men.

Anyone here believe that Muslims ripped her clothes off but only raped her with their hands and not their penises? If so, I have a few Middle Eastern deserts and wadis to sell you. She’s lying. Because she’s an absolute fraud who will lie to you and say anything to protect Islam, rather than tell the truth about her own rape.

Ms. Logan, who returned to work this month, is expected to speak at length about the assault on the CBS News program “60 Minutes” on Sunday night. . . .

Jeff Fager, the chairman of CBS News and the executive producer of “60 Minutes,” said that the forthcoming segment about the assault on Ms. Logan would raise awareness of the issue. “There’s a code of silence about it that I think is in Lara’s interest and in our interest to break,” he said.

PUH-LEEZE. Logan, CBS, and Fager aren’t breaking a code of silence. They’re maintaining it in the name of political correctness about Islam.

The assault happened the day that Ms. Logan returned to Cairo. . . . “The city was on fire with celebration” over Mr. Mubarak’s exit, she said, comparing it to a Super Bowl party.

Uh-huh. Muslim savages who gang rape are “just like” good old American sports fans at a Super Bowl party. You keep telling yourself that, Lara. The problem is that she keeps telling this to the world and won’t tell the truth.

As the cameraman, Richard Butler, was swapping out a battery, Egyptian colleagues who were accompanying the camera crew heard men nearby talking about wanting to take Ms. Logan’s pants off. She said: “Our local people with us said, ‘We’ve gotta get out of here.’ That was literally the moment the mob set on me.”

Mr. Butler, Ms. Logan’s producer, Max McClellan, and two locally hired drivers were “helpless,” Mr. Fager said, “because the mob was just so powerful.” A bodyguard who had been hired to accompany the team was able to stay with Ms. Logan for a brief period of time.

“For Max,” the producer, “to see the bodyguard come out of the pile without her, that was one of the worst parts,” Mr. Fager said. He said Ms. Logan “described how her hand was sore for days after — and the she realized it was from holding on so tight” to the bodyguard’s hand.

“My clothes were torn to pieces,” Ms. Logan said.

She declined to go into more detail about the assault but said: “What really struck me was how merciless they were. They really enjoyed my pain and suffering. It incited them to more violence.”

Uh, yeah, but who is the “they” who were merciless and enjoyed her pain? We know who it is: Muslims. But she won’t say, because she’s–in the end–a pathetic, lying rape victim eager to protect her gang rapists for political reasons.

Is a person who covered war in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other Muslim nations for several years that stupid–that dense!–that she is suddenly “struck” by the mercilessness of Muslims and their joy at the pain of their victims, particularly Western and female victims? Then, she’s a clueless morons. And I don’t buy it, even if she was a swimsuit model and whore who slept around and broke up marriages in the war zone. She knows what Muslims are about. She just doesn’t have the guts to say so. Sorry, but this fraud-ette ain’t a rape victim. She’s a propagandist whose body was temporarily taken for the Muslim Brotherhood’s cause and who is now willingly, deliberately giving her mind and voice to protect them, too. A frickin’ liar with Cairo Syndrome (the Stockholm moniker needs to be changed).

Ms. Logan said she decided almost immediately that she would speak out about sexual violence both on behalf of other journalists and on behalf of “millions of voiceless women who are subjected to attacks like this and worse.”

Well, they are still voiceless because this new “voice” on their behalf won’t tell the truth about Islam and the Muslim identity of her gang rapists.

Oh, and here’s the big lie:

Before the assault, Ms. Logan said, she did not know about the levels of harassment and abuse that women in Egypt and other countries regularly experienced. “I would have paid more attention to it if I had had any sense of it,” she said. “When women are harassed and subjected to this in society, they’re denied an equal place in that society. Public spaces don’t belong to them. Men control it. It reaffirms the oppressive role of men in the society.

Uh, NO. Not “men.” MUSLIM men. This isn’t about men around the world, but this fraud, Lara Logan, is trying to turn what savage Muslim men did to her into something she can project onto Western men and men everywhere else . . . as if they behave the same as Muslim men. She knows better. But, again, she’s a fraud. A liar. A phony.

After the “60 Minutes” segment is broadcast, though, she does not intend to give other interviews on the subject. “I don’t want this to define me,” she said.

The rape will define Logan. And her political correctness to defend her Muslim gang rapists will define everything she does, as it did her undeserved gushing over the Egyptian Muslim savages in Tahrir Square.

Among the letters she received, she said, was one from a woman who lives in Canada who was raped in the back of a taxi cab in Cairo in early February, amid the protests there. “That poor woman had to go into the airport begging people to help her,” Ms. Logan recalled. When she returned home, “her family told her not to talk about it.”

And now that poor woman is being raped again by Lara Logan’s denial, just like her family’s. Don’t talk about it . . . at least, don’t talk about the Muslims involved.

On Sundays’ “60 Minutes,” you can be sure about one thing: there will be no truth about Lara Logan’s “40 Minutes.”

**** UPDATE: Reader S writes,

Debbie… Just read your article regarding Lara Logan. I happen to think that Lara logan is both a propagandist for the Muslim brotherhood as well as a rape victim. I do not believe that the two are necessarily mutually exclusive.

What I’m sure that we both agree on however, is that she is reprehensible for not confirming to the world (as many media outlets have reported) that those Muslims who assaulted her repeatedly shouted ‘JEW! JEW! JEW!’ during the attack. I don’t expect her to address that issue on 60 minutes either.

AMEN.

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217 Responses

“Have you fools acknowledge that in Sudan that black christians are being tormented by guess who, islamist, it’s a fact! I remember a few years ago, some muslim guys beheaded a little christian girl in the Philipines or Malaysia, they did that to her because of her religion (she was a christian). Do the two of you know that muslims oppress gay people in their countries?”

Wow, all I can say is you must come from an extremely uneducated background to think that there are people out there that don’t know Muslims oppress gays. I would assume everyone knows that, but then again, I am highly educated and well informed. I guess if you come from a culture of illiterate high school drop outs, you actually might be aware of people so uneducated that they don’t know gays are oppressed by Muslim societies and feel you actually would need to inform them because they might not know.

Seriously, how stupid are your friends that you think you’d actually need to make a point of telling anyone that Muslims oppress gays, or kill Christians? That’s like me saying “Did you know George Washington is the first president of the United States.”

But this article’s entire point is that this isn’t a problem about how women are treated by men all over the world, it’s specifically a problem amongst Muslims. That is a lie, just like you lied in saying that Christian men don’t rape women, only Muslim men do. South Africa has one of the highest rape rates in the world. Gang rape especially is widespread and a huge problem. A woman in South Africa is more likely to be raped than to learn how to read. Yet only 1.5% of their population is Muslim, and the majority of rapists in South Africa are not Muslims.

Yes you are evil by saying these rapes did not happen. What else do you expect me to think of someone who says the ten year old I mer who got pregnant after being gang raped by 15 Christian men and then tossed in the street by her Christian parents and thrown out of the town walls by her Christian community, though luckily rescured by Partners in Health charity workers, does not exist?

S. C. on April 29, 2011 at 1:05 pm

Kevin Morrow, you really are a pathetic POS, the men who physically attacked Ms. Logan where “MUSLIMS”, it’s a fact! Obviously you weren’t here the first time when DS posted a topic similar to this one over two months ago.

Fact is KM, that the majority of the population in Egypt are muslims, that’s a fact. There is a small percentage of christians, jews, etc. in Egypt (As I’ve said, everybody from all religions, races, ethnicities, etc. commit crimes against humanity, I’m not denying it), and also KM, have you ever heard of the Copitc-Christians (DS has also pointed out that half of the Coptics are anti-semites and their pope preached anti-semitic jew hatred in their church a number of years ago), there church was blown up on New Years day by islamist fundamentals, and I also bet your going to say that it wasn’t muslims who killed the coptics in Egypt on 1/1/11!

“A nation is defined by it’s borders, langguage & culture!”

Sean R. on April 29, 2011 at 1:09 pm

Hmmm, 200 men, many with long beards, shouting, “Jew, Jew,” and screaming “allah akbar” in Cairo, Egypt, where over 90% of the populace is Muslim.

To even make the claim that some may be Christian, in a land where Christians and Muslims don’t mix, because the Christians are murdered by Muslims, shows you are: a) Retarded; b) a Muslim, c) probably a gay liberal; or d) all of the above.

Jonathan E. Grant on April 29, 2011 at 1:10 pm

Sean, as always I am proud that you get it. Mazel tov! When the real trouble hits, you’ll be on the good side.

Dopes like Kevin have to obfuscate and act like DS is saying “the only men who ever rape in the whole wide world are Moooooooslims”. He has to see it as such because he does NOT have the balls (or brains) to take on the subject like a man…as DS does.

As for the others like him, just remember…

1) Being Liberal means NEVER having to say you are sorry.

2) Liberals NEVER apologize (or fine-tune) their arguements when they are proven wrong.

3) Liberals prove that they believe “PCness uber alles”. That’s mental defection.

4) Liberals will NEVER be able to wrap their minds around the mathematic equation of “what policy saves more lives than takes more lives”, ala Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Yes, the frauds are only into LOOKING as if they are doing good than actually doing good.

At this point in the game (10 years after 9/11) you either get it or don’t. These Liberal pukes won’t get it. I’m glad you do though.

Skunky on April 29, 2011 at 1:14 pm

You know what SC, I’m of Jamaican descent, and when a Jamaican person get’s upset, he or she says “Lord have mercy”, that’s what I have to say to SC, lord have mercy! First off, I’m NOT some illiterate fool, secondly, I’m well educated, third, I have a college degree to back it up, and fourth, I happen to live in the real world, and that makes me a “realist”! I hope that I don’t date a girl like you SC, if I ever dated a woman like you, I’ll regrett dating somebody like your dumbass.

SC, as I’ve told your stupid ass in my previous post, when men from “non-muslim” religions rape another woman they don’t stone the lady to death like what they do in islam, why the f**k is your stupid ass denying that? And what happend to that girl you mentioned is terrible SC, I’m not denying it. But SC, did those christian people stone that girl to death becuase she was “gang raped by 15 Christian men” as you claimed? No, of course not, had she been a muslim, she wouldn’t be alive right now SC, that’s a PROVEN FACT!

“A nation is defined by it’s borders, language & culture!”

Sean R. on April 29, 2011 at 1:22 pm

Skunky, thanks, your the type of woman that I prefer over women like SC who’s just plain old moronic and talking out of her ass. Skunky, you heard of this quote, “hell is a place where you can’t reason”, debating with morons like KM and SC, you just can’t reason with windbags like these two jackasses. Hell Skunky, I give Norman Blizter more repsect than KM and SC, and JG, I think Kevin and SC are all of the above, a) Retarded, b) Muslim, c) gay liberal, d) all of the above, my answer is D, all of the above!

“A nation is defined by it’s borders, language & culture!”

Sean R. on April 29, 2011 at 1:28 pm

Dear me, she can’t evn tell the truth when she’s allegedly trying to. That’s the definition of a Journalist to me.

Occam's Tool on April 29, 2011 at 1:30 pm

Debbie,

gotta disagree with you. There’s no reason she couldn’t be a fraudulent moron. I don’t think the two necessarily counter each other.

Occam's Tool on April 29, 2011 at 1:34 pm

“SC, as I’ve told your stupid ass in my previous post, when men from “non-muslim” religions rape another woman they don’t stone the lady to death like what they do in islam, why the f**k is your stupid ass denying that? And what happend to that girl you mentioned is terrible SC, I’m not denying it. But SC, did those christian people stone that girl to death becuase she was “gang raped by 15 Christian men” as you claimed? No, of course not, had she been a muslim, she wouldn’t be alive right now SC, that’s a PROVEN FACT!”

I agree with you. It is far more dangerous for women in Muslim countries. Women in Haiti are not stoned to death or forced to commit suicide by village elders for being raped. What’s more, women are killed for doing things like going to school, or wanting to leave abusive husbands. I read about a case in which a foreign aid worker was workign in a Muslim country and was dressed in a head to toe covering. She fell down, and when she did so, it revealed her leg. She was then beaten mericilessly by police for no other reason than she felld own, and accidentally, her long covering showed her bare skin. It is far more dangerous for a woman in most Muslim countries. That’s why I have not done foreign aid work in Muslim countries, because it is so much more dangerous for me there.

But you said “You say Christian men do not rape women in africa, asia, etc. That is not true. Your friends the Muslims do.” That is a lie, and you are a liar for saying it. You DID deny it and now you are lying AGAIN by saying you did not type the words anyone can see you did in fact type.

S. C. on April 29, 2011 at 1:36 pm

Okay. You guys have a link to what you’re referring to? I’d be glad to read it. The bottom line is that until I see something in print that proves the identity of the attackers as Muslim, I will not be able to conclude anything other than that you’re just assuming out of ignorance and sheer racist bigotry. So, show me a link…give me something to read. If you’d like to link me to DS’s earlier story, then that’s fine, as long as it quotes information from a reputable news-gathering source (meaning not just some blogger sitting in his basement hyperlinking rumors passing as fact, but an actual news organization like WSJ or Washington Post or even Fox News).

Kevin Morrow on April 29, 2011 at 1:37 pm

By the way, what you are doing is called “moving the goal post.” It is what people often do when they are caught lying. You said only Muslims, not Christians, participate in rape culture. I said that this was a lie. Rather than man up and admit that you were wrong, you now “move the goalpost” while saying “well Christians don’t stone rape victims!” which is true, and I never claimed otherwise. If you had said, initially, “Christians may gang rape women and throw them out of their communities for being gang raped, but at least they don’t execute them!” Then I would have said, “You are right, Sean! Women are treated even worse in places like in rural Bangladesh, where recently a 14 year old was whipped to death for being raped. But you didn’t say that. You lied, and now you won’t even admit to the lie. Instead you try and change the subject because you are too much of a coward to even admit to your own lie.

S. C. on April 29, 2011 at 1:41 pm

And as for our little Kevin, we can say three things about him. First, he is male (leftists aren’t men). Might his biological sex reduced his opportunity to notice real rape in Muslim countries? Second, Kevin can bloviate but he cannot reason carefully. How else can one explain his immediate acceptance of a ridiculously low rape rate in Egypt as compared with the US. Can one believe anything from someone who flaunts a report positing that the prevalance of rape in the US is three hundred times greater than that of Egypt? Kevin also thinks there is a “Palestine,” but that’s par for the course. Third, evidently he’s a missionary. If so, might it be that the Muslims he has met are a bit different from the usual, i.e, because they want to convert to Christianity? This assumes, of course, that Kevin is honest, which is something I do not believe.

skzion on April 29, 2011 at 1:42 pm

Ok SC, I’ll give you some credit, and thank for agreeing what I wrote in my last post to you, atleast you where honest and said that you didn’t go to islamic countries and do foreign aid work, it is risky for women in general, your 100% correct on that SC, so guess what SC, “politics makes strange bedfellows”!

Now as for your last paragraph, I made a little error, my problem is that I think and type too quick, christian men in africa, asia at times do commit crimes like that by sexaully assualting women, but guess what, when those women are raped by those christian males, the community don’t resort to stoning them to death and beat them with a “cane-stick” like what they do in islam. The perpertrators in those societies go to jail for doing stuff like that, and the woman who were sexaully assualted are left alone and not killed for being raped.

Kevin Morrow, go through Ms. Schlussel’s archives on a topic similar to this one and you’ll find out that the culprits who did this horrible thing to Ms. Logan happend to be muslim males. The reason why your in such denial is because Logan didn’t mention the men who touched her, she equated men like me and you Kevin to those savages who raped her, she is a phony.

“A nation is defined by it’s borders, language & culture!”

Sean R. on April 29, 2011 at 1:51 pm

Oh, I forgot. There is definitely a Palestine. I’ve been in it a large handful of times, even lived there for a little while. Pretty much all of the people, except for one, dissed me or otherwise were unhappy at the fact that I was American. No one dissed me or bothered me for being a Christian.

Kevin Morrow on April 29, 2011 at 1:52 pm

You know, if S.C. and Kevin got together and mated (assuming one of them is a man), their offspring would be idiots.

Jonathan E. Grant on April 29, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    Jon, thank heaven there are only two seminar e-mailers on this thread!

    Its kinda hard to defend Saint Logan.

    She’s neither a saint or a true victim.

    But the Left needs its martyrs.

    NormanF on April 29, 2011 at 2:26 pm

Yep, it’s very interesting that this leftist dirtbag refused to mention in her interview that the Muslim savages who raped her shouted, “Yehud! Yehud!”

That is, they raped her because they thought she was a Jew.

You hear that? Raped on suspicion of being Jewish.

I don’t feel sorry one bit for this leftist dirtbag. How many more rapes does she need to endure before she stops preaching to us about the “religion of peace”?

Also, numerous journalists in Cairo were threatened with decapitation by the “peaceful,” “moderate” and “liberal” “freedom fighters.” Did she mention that? NO.

Shame on you, Lara Liar Logan. And what the hell does she mean – raped “with their hands”? Yeah, right.

She is a man-hater, an America-hater, and probably a Jew-hatier (since she refuses to point out that she was attacked on suspicion of being Jewish, lest this fact arouse sympathy for the “evil Zionist settlers” her newspaper loves to lambaste).

Mike on April 29, 2011 at 2:20 pm

All right. I just read three of Debbie’s blog posts on from February on the rape story. The only information I got from them was that the attackers were chanting “Jew! Jew!” as they were doing their dirty work, and some Egyptian soldiers earlier in the day accused Logan of being an Israeli spy. Did I miss a post where there was more information on the attackers’ identities? That is not proof that they were Muslims. I’m still left with suppositions based on fragmentary evidence.

Kevin Morrow on April 29, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    Says you!

    Muslim anti-Semitism is a matter of documented record.

    You just don’t care to see it.

    NormanF on April 29, 2011 at 2:28 pm

KM,

Your stubborn insistence on ignoring obvious demographics to the point of lunacy plus ignoring many other sources of proof that any rational human being would accept, classifies you as a typical robot brained Leftist that only believes what their crooked heart desires.

Your actions are typical of a useful idiot that serves the Muslim cause. Enjoy your dhimmi days while you still can.

Facts Life on April 29, 2011 at 2:30 pm

There are Christians in Muslim countries that don’t have a sterling record on anti-Semitism either. That is why I don’t consider it inevitable that the attackers HAD to be Muslims, just because they shouted anti-semitic statements. The bottom line here, folks, is that you people are vicious racists who persist in believing the worst of a whole class of people without proof that your beliefs are correct. This is the kind of dangerously bigoted, racist and alarmist thinking that gets us into unnecessary wars, like the war in Iraq.

Kevin Morrow on April 29, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    Kevin Morrow accuses posters here of racism. Egyptians are, overwhelmingly, either of Arab extraction, and therefore Semites, or else they are Coptic, the modern descendants of the original, indigenous Egyptians of antiquity. In either case, they are Caucasian. And as to Islam, how is racism relevant? There are black Muslims in Africa, Indo-European Muslims ranging from India and Pakistan to Turkey, Russia the Caucasus, and the Balkans, and there are Muslims – Uighurs – in Xinjiang, in western China, who are indistinguishable in appearance to the non-Muslim Han, who also inhabit the region. The same is true of the Muslims in the Philippines, Thailand, Malaysia, etc. So what race is Islam, now?

    commonsense on April 29, 2011 at 3:33 pm

You know what guys, when I was alot younger in my early twenties about 10 years ago, I was a naive “Middle of the Road” person who wasn’t into politics at the time. But when the islamist attacked us on 9/11/01 I started to become somewhat invovled in politics and I became a “conservative” at that point, but I still wasn’t too interested in politics.

By around the 2004 election, I became alot more into politics because during the course of that year, I was disgusted how the MSM, the Democrat party and the left wingers treated George Bush Jr., I said to myself, why is the media all over Bush’s case? They didn’t do this Bill Clinton for 8 years, then I started to listen to AM Talk Radio shows and the host explained that the left wing MSM is biased and are in a relationship with the DNC (which are all facts). Kevin Morrow, dude, I used to be like you 10 years ago at this time, completely naive, gullible, and living in my own world instead of the real world. KM, you STILL have to acknowledge the fact that the majority of the populace in Egypt are “muslims”, and those men who raped Logan were islamist men!

“A nation is defined by it’s borders, language & culture!”

Sean R. on April 29, 2011 at 2:46 pm

OMG, Kevin Morrow, you clearly don’t know what the hell your talking about. First off dumbass, islam is NOT a race, it’s a religion (some folks here call it a cult) so how the f**k are we being racist? There are white muslims, black muslims, hispanic muslims, asian muslims, arabic muslims, east indian muslims, etc. And your the one who’s the racist here Kevin, none of us, I repeat, none of us put race and skin color into this debate, your the one who’s throwing the race card around you schmuck! Your just being a typical dhimmi imbecile and not knowing the fact that is was muslim men who touched Lara Logan inappropriately!

“A nation is defined by it’s borders, language & culture!”

Sean R. on April 29, 2011 at 2:54 pm

KM,

It’s people like you that are blinded by your PC attitude that refuse to see the obvious truth of Islamist evil and would leave us defenseless against their evil plans. You only see evil in those that want the truth and not Leftist Utopia platitudes.

The Iraq war was a partial mistake. Bush should have left Saddam in power to control the Islamists. Right now we have an Islamist democracy that will join all our enemies against us.

I don’t see your pal Obama doing anything to change this.

Facts Life on April 29, 2011 at 2:55 pm

Sean: Yes, the majority of the populace in Egypt is Muslim, absolutely yes. But no, you still haven’t given me proof that would hold up in a court of law. That’s really what all this is about: DS and all of you are trying to use this situation as an excuse to try and condemn the entire Islamic world of barbarism and evil. That is why I refuse to give in. The sole intent of Debbie’s post is to damn the Islamic world. It is hate speech. Period. If you were to insert “Jew” every time Debbie says “Muslim” in this and other posts like it, we would all freak out and read her the riot act for anti-semitism. Maybe the intention to do physical harm is not there as with classical anti-semitism, but the hatred, fear and willful ignorance sure is.

Also, it is not that I deny that there is evil in the Islamic world. I don’t. I just don’t believe that there nothing BUT evil in the Islamic world. Muslims in the Middle East are better than we are at distinguishing between the behavior of some (particularly our government and our armed forces) from the character of all. THEY don’t hate us like some of us hate THEM.

Kevin Morrow on April 29, 2011 at 3:01 pm

Sean: Yeah, I know: “racist” is not quite the right term, but there’s no equivalent term to denote someone who hates based on religion. Technically, we could use the term anti-semite, because Arabs are Semites, but not then, not all Muslims are Arabs, and also everybody associates the term with hating Jews. There’s no equivalent term. Maybe just “bigot” will have to do.

Kevin Morrow on April 29, 2011 at 3:32 pm

The Muslims were just capturing slave girls and raping them like their Qur’an tells them to. Nothing inconsistent with the Qur’an here. And Lara responded just like the Qur’an wanted her too! Good Job Lara! “their right hand possesses” you now.

Bruce on April 29, 2011 at 3:56 pm

Kevin,
Let me guess, you have never opened and read the Quran have you? Why don’t you do so, beginning at the back and reading towards the middle (relevant because it superseded the earlier portion). You will see once you do that this “religion” is based on evil and is not on par with the other world religions in terms of content. If you will learn about shariah you will learn that entire system of life is also evil. Let’s educate ourselves people before it is too late.

CJ on April 29, 2011 at 4:03 pm

i would cut her a wee bit of slack right now seeing that she was gang raped by hundreds of crazed muslim animals and is lucky to still be alive.
i’m sure it will take quite some time to diffuse her man-rage defense mechanism.

howard roark on April 29, 2011 at 4:07 pm

CJ: you would be guessing incorrectly. I haven’t read the whole thing, sure, but I’ve read parts of it. The problem with talking about what the Kur’an teaches is that it is internally inconsistent, in my opinion. It teaches violence and war against non-Muslims. It also teaches peace with non-Muslims. Really rather confusing, if you ask me. The hadiths add another layer of traditions on top of that that sometimes seem at variance with the Kur’an. This is why, although it’s important to know what the Kur’an teaches, it is less important than learning what Muslims actually believe. Keep in mind that a lot of Muslims don’t even read the Kur’an. Some can’t read the Kur’an, because they believe that non-Arabic translations are not the “true” Kur’an. If you speak Indonesian and don’t understand any more Arabic than your morning prayers, then you have a problem, although I’m sure that many non-Arabic speaking Muslims are practical enough to seek out Kur’an translations in the vernacular. The entire system of life is not evil, unless you consider giving to the poor is evil, or that acknowledging the greatness of a single Creator God is evil. I would agree that it is not a fully true religion in the sense that Christianity is a true religion. But Islam is not utterly evil. There are seeds of evil in it that evil people can and do exploit, but that would not include your average Muslim in the street.

Kevin Morrow on April 29, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    it isn’t important to understand what the koran teaches beyond a brief overview. it is important to observe muslim behavior to have all of the useful and practical knowledge you’ll need.

    it’s that simple.

    howard roark on April 29, 2011 at 4:16 pm

      By the fruits you will know them…

      Lady in Northern Virginia on April 29, 2011 at 4:18 pm

        the fruits and the nuts…

        howard roark on April 29, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    Kevin Morrow:
    You are absolutely correct that the Koran is internally inconsistent, as it was purportedly “revealed” in stages, over about twenty years, to Muhammed. The earliest chapters, or suras, date from the Meccan period, when Muhammed had few followers; these verses advocate (albeit grudgingly at times)peaceful co-existence with the non-Muslim majority. The last suras date from the Medinan period, when Muhammed had many followers and was politically and militarily powerful. These late chapters call for eternal, open-ended warfare against unbelievers, and their utter subjugation. Muslim scholars, jurists, and clerics have attempted to resolve this dualistic problem by citing a verse found in the Koran which states, in effect, that Allah can change his mind if he so chooses and replace a Koranic passage with another that is “better.” This led to the formulation of “naskh,” or the Policy of Abrogation. Older passages – the Meccan ones – are, according to those who specialize in Koranic interpretation, either cancelled altogether or radically re-interpreted to be consonant with the later Medinan passages. So the earlier passages, with their relatively tolerant message, are considered to be superseded by the later ones, which advocate warfare, subjugation, humiliation, and yes – even murder of those who resist the Muslims’ demand for Submission to Allah.

    commonsense on April 29, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    Kevin, would you please stop saying that Christian men rape women? This is untrue. If a man rapes someone, he is not Christian by definition. I am defining a Christian as a person who regularly attends church and follows the teachings of Christ. There is nothing in the written teachings of Christ as recorded in the gospels that says that a woman should be raped (or stoned to death, or killed for being raped).
    Now I am saying this as an agnostic who has read the Bible, so I have no Christian barrow to push. The new testament as its name implies, is about the teachings of Christ and a few others such as James and Paul. Nothing in their words say that to be a Christian you rape.
    Now however, on the other hand, the Koran, Hadith etc, clearly state that Mohammed approved of rape and advocated it to be done to conquered women (after killing their husbands for good measure).
    However, if you really want to find out about Islam, you need to do a bit of study. I don’t think you want to do that study, or you wouldn’t be nit picking about whether the men who raped this reporter, may or may not have been Muslims. There have been plenty of independent reports in other sources that say this is what happened.
    You obviously have friends who are Muslim, and you don’t want to believe the worst about them. To do them justice, they are trapped in a system whereby they cannot get out or they are killed, as apostasy is not allowed.
    But the point is, their cult distinctly says that they should be doing all sorts of horrible things to other people in order to be proper muslims. They get points for it in their heaven. The ones who are doing the outlandish things are in fact the good muslims!
    On the question of this Lara person, she would be in a state of disbelief that this has happened to her. Rape victims do not recover in a few months.
    It has also been public and so she cannot and will not escape the tag which will define her all her life.
    In addition, as apparently a leftist leaning person who would have a political axe to grind, she would not be able to accept that her concepts are wrong. Hence her hedging.
    There is another reason she may be afraid to speak out. That is that anyone who criticises islam or muslims then has a fatwa placed against them which can mean death. As a reporter out in the field, she does not have the luxury of being able to hide away from this.
    I commend the writer of this blog for bringing out the two faced hypocracy of the left and of Lara. I for one would like to know how a woman who is being raped for 40 minutes by hundreds of men, knows exactly what happened to her. She would have been off her brain with fear. With men on top of her holding her down and beating her, how would she know what was shoved into her. There is obviously a narrative that is being fed to everyone to try to downplay it.

    CM on April 30, 2011 at 7:26 pm

“While Ms. Logan, CBS’s chief foreign affairs correspondent, said she would definitely return to Afghanistan and other conflict zones, she said she had decided — for the moment — not to report from the Middle Eastern countries where protests were widespread.”

Middle Eastern countries with the exception of Israel are muslim majority countries. Is Lara Logan an anti-muslim bigot for deciding not to report from the Middle East “for the moment” or is she a realist noticing that muslim men in conflict zones will probably gang rape her and it wasn’t fun.

I’m not sure why she feels safe in Afghanistan unless she embeds with troops there. Perhaps she has to go to Afghanistan to be still considered CBS’s chief foreign affairs correspondent.

Lady in Northern Virginia on April 29, 2011 at 4:14 pm

Kevin Morrow – It has become apparent to me after reading so many of your posts that you are seriously struggling with this subject. You started off with a large litany of counter arguments but those have been whittled down to one lone, weak argument that you have not been given any proof that would hold up in a court of law.

You claim you are a Christian. No one, I mean NO ONE can be a true Christian unless through the absolute belief that Christ lived, died on the cross, and rose again on the 3rd day. What court on earth has proven this Kevin? What court on earth will ever prove this? Yet you believe in Christ. I assume you believe this to the point that you would suffer and die for that belief.

And it seems this debate has severely run off course. It was about Lara Logan not being totally forthright about what happened to her in Egypt and at the hands (no pun intended) of those who brutalized her and that they were in fact a mob of rabid muslim men. Yes, we have to go on faith here. And a whole lot of common sense. I will not believe for one second that there was even so much as a handful of Coptic Christian men in that rabid mob! Why on earth have you so vociferously argued your point that we can’t prove they were all muslim men? As a Christian, why on earth are you trying so hard to make us all believe that in our modern times a mob of 200-300 Christian men would do such a horrific thing to a woman in a public square? As a Christian man, had you been in the midsts of that mob and within feet of Lara Logan on that day, what would you have done on her behalf, Kevin?

Kairn on April 29, 2011 at 4:42 pm

Kairns: I see what you’re saying to a point. Yes, you’re right, I would (hopefully, God willing) suffer and die for my belief in Christ, even though I had never laid eyes on the One in Whom I believe. But that’s because I have seen other proofs: namely the character of Jesus expressing itself through the lives of other Christians, as well as the fact that the Christian moral system makes an awful lot of sense. So even there, I don’t believe blindly. And also, I had the testimony of many people to consider before committing myself to that belief system. Again, I emphasize, I did not and do not believe in anything on blind faith, and when I do, it’s because I’m either too lazy to check things out or don’t have the time or both.

I’ve also learned over time that there are many people that bear the name of Christian who are not Christians at all. Christianity is not merely an intellectual worldview that one argues for and defends. It is a living expression of a restored relationship with the Creator of the universe destroyed through human rebellion. Just because you call yourself a Christian doesn’t mean you are one, and doesn’t mean that you have the restraining influence of God’s Spirit living in you. Even if you are, that doesn’t guarantee that you will be obedient to the voice of the Spirit in your conscience. I’ve seen true Christians do and say stuff that would make your hair stand on end.

In a sense, we have wandered far from what Debbie defined as the main point, but I would submit that Lara’s behavior after the rape is NOT the main point. The main point is that Debbie is upset with Lara Logan, because Logan refuses to validate Debbie’s narrative, which demands that all people everywhere must condemn Islam as an evil, barbaric religion. If they don’t then, like Logan (thinks Debbie), they must be apologists for Islamists, willing dupes and useful idiots for the demonic forces of Islamic barbarism.

My central point was and is that you cannot use this incident to justify the condemnation of an entire people group that constitutes 1/5 of the world’s population.

Another way of saying this is that the problem is not Islam: the problem is human evil, and that is something we all are influenced by to one degree or another. WE have a rape problem in the US too. WE have had our issues in the not-too-distant past with violence (the Indian Wars, slavery, the violence of the civil rights era). We Americans hardly have the moral superiority to cast thunderbolts at other people, especially when you consider that we have caused more deaths through our various wars in the last decade than probably all the terrorist attacks in that period combined.

I’m not saying we ignore the evildoing of others, or that we must not protest such things. I’m saying that if or when we do, we do so with humility, knowing that we Americans, both as a nation and as individuals, have brought a lot of pain and suffering to each other and to the citizens of other nations. think we have the moral obligation to call out the evil behavior of others, but we haven’t the right to screech and point fingers at other people’s cultures and judge them as thoroughly rotten and bad through and through.

For instance, it’s one thing to say, as would be justified, that the Syrian government is an evil government that represses its own people and contributes to the destabilization of neighboring countries, which includes logistical and other support for terrorist organizations. There’s plenty of well-documented proof of arbitrary arrest and torture of citizens, arms shipments to Hizballah, stuff like that.

It’s another thing to say (and to say vaguely without backup information at that) that all Muslim countries are evil, evil, evil and there’s nothing good in them.

If we do, we better be sure that the facts justify this sweeping judgement. As it is, the “facts” people have proffered on this thread to justify their shocking bigotry have been pretty weak.

Also, I believe as a Christian that God has created every people group for a special purpose, that God has deposited slivers of His character in every people group on Earth, with the intention that we all reflect various aspects of His glorious character. Obviously, as fallen human beings, all people groups on the planet do this poorly. That includes us Americans no less than anyone else. This is why, though, I have a difficult time writing large segments of the world population as irredeemably lost. To me, that says that God cannot do anything with “those people” and that they’re good only for being thrown away. I don’t buy that. If Nazis can get religion (and some of them have), so can Muslims, not because I have a fuzzy, empty-headed trust in my fellow man, but because I trust in God to do miracles. Apparently, I am in the minority on that one on this thread.

Anyway, there you. That’s where I’m coming from.

Kevin Morrow on April 29, 2011 at 6:19 pm

Kevin,

The problem with talking about what the Kur’an teaches is that it is internally inconsistent, in my opinion.

Who cares about your opinion of the Qur’an. I want the opinion of Islamic religious authorities, scholars, and Muhammad. for that I go to the Qur’an which says Muslims can have sex with as many slave girls as their right hand possesses!

It teaches violence and war against non-Muslims. It also teaches peace with non-Muslims.

Whaaa? Where is this peace??? As long as you pay a dhimmi tax based on your religious outlook?!? What about the “idolaters” who have only two choices? Convert or Die?

But no, what you said is again wrong. The Qur’an does not teach peace with non muslims. It teaches taqiyya toward non Muslims, which is as “peaceful” as Islam gets. There are around 114 verses that could be said to teach tolerance and “peace with non Muslims,” but the problem is that EVERY SINGLE ONE of these verses was abrogated (naskh, S. 2.106) by S. 9.5. Besides, most of the so called “peaceful” verses are directed toward the believer and presuppose Islamic faith. Funny stuff, eh?

You see the problem is that you don’t know anything about Islam. You don’t know that Muhammad’s “peaceful” ministry in Mecca completely failed and his violent, cut throat Yathrib ministry, which succeeded through intimidation and slaughter, abrogates anything “peaceful” said in Mecca.

This is why, although it’s important to know what the Kur’an teaches, it is less important than learning what Muslims actually believe.

Such ignorance is belittling. “what Muslims actually believe” IS “what the Kur’an teaches.” I could give a hoot about what some p.c. western Muslim tells you; they are more western then Muslim anyway. I want to know the CORE FUNDEMENTAL teachings of Islam as found in the Qur’an and sunnah, and there is very little “variance” in that, especially towards the unbelievers. There is no disagreement as to how non Muslims should be treated, besides things like…should Muslims hit the unbeliever on the face or the neck when they pay jizya?..should Muslims stone or burn homosexuals? Interesting “variants.”

Some can’t read the Kur’an, because they believe that non-Arabic translations are not the “true” Kur’an.

Please stop. Almost every line of what you write is wrong. According the QUR’AN, CLEAR ARABIC TOUNGE IS THE WAY TO READ AND UNDERSTAND THE QUR’AN cf. S. 13.37, etc.. So even if Muslims wanted to read the Qur’an in a different language, their Qur’an tells them to read it in Arabic! Islamic scholars exegete these ayat correctly stating that one can ONLY read the Qur’an in Arabic.

The entire system of life is not evil, unless you consider giving to the poor is evil, or that acknowledging the greatness of a single Creator God is evil.

No, of course not the entire system, just the central nerve is evil. Muslims do not believe in the God of the Bible. The pagan name “Allah” existed before Muhammad was born, and was worshipped by pagans in conjunction with other deities, by tribes such as the Quraysh, the tribe Muhammad was born into. Oh wait, I think the Quraysh specifically worshipped Hubal, on second thought. No matter, Adonai is our Elohim!

I would agree that it is not a fully true religion in the sense that Christianity is a true religion.

And check out your bias there. Not that I disagree, but I wonder what Jews would say to that…hmmm. Inconsistency is the sign of a failed argument.

Bruce on April 29, 2011 at 6:56 pm

Kevin Morrow,

I appreciate where you are coming from Kevin. I really do. I believe you to be a good person who is trying to do good in the name of Jesus.

I believe you misinterpret what Debbie tries so hard to get across. It is Islam that is first and foremost at issue here. She is disgusted with Lara Logan for not telling the truth about ‘Islam’ and what it has inspired its adherents to do for the last 1400 years. This is an incredibly cruel and vicious ideology. How can you deny that? Or soften that? Or add perfume to that to make it smell better?

When a mob of 200-300 muslims are in the process of tearing some poor infidel woman apart or rampaging thru Christian communities in Ethiopia and Nigeria, how on earth does any rational person not link the two together – muslim/islam islam/muslim?!! The rest of the world, informed by these horrific news reports and pictures, is completely justified in connecting the dots.

Many, many murderous horrors have come about at the hands of muslims in the name of Islam to non-muslim communities around the world for the last 1400 years. These horrors have visited upon countless numbers of naive people who wanted to believe that islam and muslims were not inherently dangerous. They paid for this mistake with their lives. I honestly can’t understand why you are struggling with this fact.

As a Christian, it is commendable for you to wade into the thick of muslim communities in order to convert even one to Christianity. But I believe you have gone all sappy over your task at hand. Lara Logan has gone all sappy over muslims too. George Bush shamefully did the same thing after 9/11 and I will never forgive him for that!

The warnings from Debbie about muslims/islam is deadly serious. This ideology means serious business for the whole planet! Even if every single Christian on this planet converted one muslim, humanity would still be in deep doo fending off this evil scourge that never rests.

There is nothing wrong with acknowledging and obviously disliking an enemy force that ascribes to an ideology that mandates you either join them or you die (and usually not in a very nice fashion). To go all sappy over such a threat is sure madness! Would that Americans had all ascribed to your thinking about focusing on that little spark of goodness in the Nazi’s and the Japanese during WWII, half of the north America would now be speaking Japanese and the other German!

Enemies and evil come in varied guises Kevin, and one needs to be sober and even a bit brutal at times to fight against it. Or else be annihilated by it. G-d helps those who help themselves.

Kairn on April 29, 2011 at 8:12 pm

    I appreciate your response, Kairn. Thanks for the kind words. But here’s where we are differing: you apparently think that Islam=Islamic terrorist ideology. I think that Islamic terrorism is a small subset of Islam. If you were to reframe your understanding of Islam to accommodate this difference I’m proposing between standard Islam and Islamic terrorism, then we would actually agree. So no, I don’t think I’m going sappy at all, by that definition. That definition also doesn’t prohibit recognizing TRUE threats as threats. It also values the ability to distinguish true threats from false ones, and that the inability to do so foments non-defensive wars of aggression a la Iraq.

    Remember the fable of the Boy Who Cried Wolf.

    If we jump up and down with alarm at every imagined threat, which later turns out to be nothing, then people will start to ignore you. When the REAL threat comes along, you’re screwed, because spent so much time hyping false threats that now, nobody pays attention to you or takes you seriously.

    Even when they SHOULD.

    Think about it…

    Kevin Morrow on April 29, 2011 at 8:39 pm

      O-Kay. Here is where you are going wrong. You assume that there are two islams. There is not. islam divides the world up into two areas – islam and the rest. The rest is all of us who have yet to be conquered. It is a muslim’s duty to convert or kill anyone not muslim.
      There is no “peaceful islam” versus “radical islam”. This is a story put up and swallowed by ignorant apologists. By the way, in the Koran it is acceptable to lie to the non believer in order to conquer them. While a muslim group is not in the majority, the Koran advises them to lie low. After they have the numbers, then they can reveal their true selves.
      Which is why you cannot believe that any of them in the West who are currently peaceful, will remain so. Just go and look at Dearborn in the US.
      The life of a muslim is governed by the religious leader at his mosque. When the leader says “riot and kill” then that is what happens.
      It is no coincidence that we continuously see riots happening on Fridays after they all come out of the mosque.
      Now again, the individuals are stuck in a system, whereby they cannot leave. If they do, they are killed. Their families are killed if they do not denounce them. In Europe there are now organisations to help the apostates hide.
      So I am sorry for the muslims who are stuck, but I am sorrier for their victims.
      However, in the case of Lara, I am both sorry for her rape, but annoyed with her for being such a gullible fool of a woman who risked the lives of all the men in her crew, by inserting herself into a rioting muslim mob in a muslim country.
      They were lucky that the mob did not also turn on them.
      Her actions since just confirm what a fool she is. However, it seems to me that qualifications for being a leftist reporter or supporter IS that you are a fool.

      CM on April 30, 2011 at 8:02 pm

Moral relativists and multiculturalists often say, “Who are we to judge?”
If we DO NOT JUDGE, then it is impossible for good and evil, love and hate, right and wrong to exist.
We MUST JUDGE to know good from evil, love from hate, and right from wrong.

If islamic allah allows and requires the acts below per koran, and if satan agrees with islamic allah, there is no difference between Islamic allah and satan.

If islamic allah and satan disagree on the acts below, then satan is saying beheading, rape, torture etc. are bad, while islamic allah says they’re good.

Political correctness (PC) has turned well-intentioned but misguided language usage into a death sentence. Words are chosen for their specific meaning to convey a particular message. PC has required parties to infer meaning from words unspoken and has eliminated one of human’s greatest strengths – language. Language without meaning is useless. Evil is not good, and wrong is not right.

Islam is the perfect religion (Koran 5:3), forbidden to be doubted (Koran 2:2), the original Koran is in heaven with Allah (Koran 85:21-22), by Allah (10:37) only in Arabic (43:3), transmitted through angel Gabriel over a period of a quarter-century (23 years) to the illiterate Mohammed (7:157).

Muslims are the noblest of humans (Koran 3:110) while we non-Muslims are diseased (2:10), evil (2:99), deaf dumb and blind (2:171), can’t be our friends (3:28), are our enemies (4:101), losers (5:53), pigs and apes (5:60), evil (5:59), worst beasts (8:55), filthy (9:28), perverts (9:30), and the vilest of creatures (98:6).

Truth should never be hate speech even if it is hateful. For protected groups unencumbered by PC, should we not believe Muslims when they call us, per their Koran: diseased (2:10), evil (2:99), deaf dumb and blind (2:171), can’t be our friends (3:28), are our enemies (4:101), losers (5:53), pigs and apes (5:60), evil (5:59), worst beasts (8:55), filthy (9:28), perverts (9:30), and the vilest of creatures (98:6)?

If we are not to believe Muslims’ words, should we not believe their actions against us? Muslims are allowed or required to do the following against us non-Muslims (Infidels) per Mohammed, Koran, Hadith, and Sira: Pre-Pubescent Child Rape (65:4), Sex Slaves (4:24), Rape (24:13), Amputation and Crucifixion (5:33), Beheading (8:12, 47:4), Wives Beating (4:34) and Wives Raping (2:223), Theft and Robbery (entire Chapter 8 of Koran called Booty), Extortion (9:29), Lying (3:28, 5:51), Stoning to Death for Adultery (Sahih Muslim 17.4206), Mohammed also said “Whoever changes his Islamic religion, then kill him.” (Bukhari Volume 9, Number 85, Number 57).., and Mo said“I have been made victorious through terror.” (Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220).
Muslims MUST terrorize non-Muslims. (Koran 8:12, 8:59-60) etc.

Should we not examine Mohammed, an “excellent example of conduct” for Muslims (Koran 33:21) when as a 54-year old man (Mohammed) he raped a 9-year old girl (Aisha)? Should we not look closely at Mohammed who helped behead hundreds of captive Jews in one day in 628 A.D. in Medina, Saudi Arabia, including young boys for the capital offense of having public hairs?

Mohammed ordered followers to drink Camel Urine as Medicine (Bukhari Volume 8, Book 82, Number 794). This is the same passage BTW where Mohammed ordered peoples hands and legs cut off, and then their eyes be branded with heated pieces of iron.

Should we ignore Islam because it calls itself a religion, even though it allows activities that the FBI says are felonies?

/Jew Lover, censored and banned at Harvard for telling inconvenient truths.
http://crazyislam.typepad.com/home/harvard/

Jew Lover on April 29, 2011 at 8:26 pm

Bruce: No, you shouldn’t care about my opinion of the Kur’an, or the opinion of Islamic scholars. What you should care about is the opinion of the Kur’an among rank and file Muslims.

Think like an anthropologist for a bit.

What you seem to be suggesting is that all Muslims, at least in the Muslim world, all believe everything the Kur’an and the sunnah teaches. This is wrong. It ignores the reality that adherents of Islam live in dozens of countries spanning pretty much every continent in the world. This means that Islam had to adapt to potentially hundreds, maybe thousands of local cultures. You REALLY think that 1.6 billion people spread across 57 countries, speaking 60 different languages really all believe the Kur’an unthinkingly without dissent or complaint to an equal degree, and all without a central religious authority (like the papacy) to enforce doctrinal conformity?

The other problem with this assertion is that there is great disagreement in the Muslim community worldwide about the correct interpretation of the Kur’an. Just for starters, there is the Sunni/Shiite split, and then you have all kinds of other wierd and interesting offshoots like the Sufis, the Ismailis and the Wahhabis, etc., that have their own special emphases. Then there are the different schools of Islamic jurisprudence (Maliki, Hanafi, Hanbali, etc.) that emphasize different combinations of the Kur’an with different collections of hadiths as the authority for faith and practice. And then there are local and regional practices not strictly sanctioned by the Kur’an, like the whole deal with Muslim “saints” in the Gulf and the Levant, or the combination of Islam with elements of pre-Islamic animism in parts of West Africa and the Pacific basin. There are differing levels of practice of things like public modesty (in Saudi, a woman does not go outside pretty much covered head to toe, and if she does, she is liable to be set upon by the morals police; in Jerusalem, a woman can walk in public without a head covering, in short sleeves and not be bothered). I even know a Palestinian Muslim who lives in the West Bank and is an agnostic. Turkey is an officially secular country. Who’dve thought that would ever happen in the Islamic world?

Just for the heck of it, read this to get an idea of the diversity within the different regions of the Islamic world:

http://s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/50Religion/TurksAndIslam.htm

How many Christians do YOU know believe everything in the Bible? I don’t know many. It may be a sad commentary on the state of religion in this country, but I think this is very common worldwide. People are, well, human. People believe what they want to believe. Some people admittedly let others tell them what to believe. Others do not. Muslims are no different. Yes, Muslims are HUMAN, JUST LIKE US! They have the same emotions, the same intellect, they bleed when cut just like we do. If, as you say, Muslims believe everything that the Kur’an teaches, and if, as you say, the Kur’an preaches war and violence against the kuffaar, then why in Muslim countries haven’t Muslims rounded all Jews and Christians up and put them in concentration camps long ago?

The bottom line: not all Muslims believe or practice everything the Kur’an teaches and they don’t believe and practice these things the same way. Not by a long shot! The lens through which I filter all this is that old saying: geography is destiny, meaning one’s location in the world and one’s physical environment is the most powerful shaper of culture there is, perhaps even more than religion.

Also, if you want to find out about the core fundamentals of the Kur’an and the Sunnah, you’ll have to decide: who decides what constitutes the Sunnah? Which collection of hadiths? Classical Islam associates the Sunnah with the hadiths. Later generations of Islam have a diversity of ideas on this issue. Shiites also include the sayings of the 12 imams. Sunnis don’t. Things are not so cut and dried as they may seem at first.

As for what Islam has to say about peace versus violence:
There’s lots of verses all over the map. I’m sure you’ve seen all the bloodthirsty ones, so here’s one of the ones on the other side of the coin: Chapter 5, Verse 32: “[I]f anyone slew a person—unless it be for murder or spreading mischief in the land—it would be as if he slew the whole people. And if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people.” Etc., etc. There’s lot of that in there. Yeah, maybe this section is the part that was all abrogated. Maybe a lot of Muslims don’t really care all that much and cherry pick things like a lot of Christians do.

Here’s an example of what I mean by giving more importance to what Muslims actually believe as opposed to what you think the Kur’an teaches.

I was in East Jerusalem last November staying in a youth hostel in the Muslim Quarter. I got to know the hostel owner, Saad, who was a Muslim from Hebron, and one day, I had a long conversation with him. In my journal, I wrote about him: “He believes that what Jews, Christians and Muslims teach is the same, with the exception of our teaching about Jesus being God…He doesn’t at all hate Jews, wishes them well…[he talks at length about the trouble that the Israelis impose on Palestinians, like the difficulty in getting identification papers renewed by hostile, uncooperative Israeli government bureaucrats and the harassment he faces at checkpoints...] But Saad seems content for them to cause him trouble. It didn’t bother him, because he knows that God cares for him, and what the Israelis do doesn’t matter.” Etc.

If you were to follow your logic to the letter, we should not have been able to have a peaceful, respectful conversation like this. But we did, because Saad differentiates himself from those who are, as he says, “conservative,” i.e., Islamist in outlook.

Not all Muslims are the same. Not all Muslims are fire-breathing Islamists. Get…that…out…of…your…head!

Kevin Morrow on April 29, 2011 at 8:31 pm

Kevin Morrow,

Oh, Kevin. You are trying so hard. I give up. You asked me to think about it. I’ve been thinking about ‘it’ and studying ‘it’ and paying attention to ‘it’ pretty solidly since 9/11. I am a Christian, but I do not share the same take on islam/muslim as you do. I never, ever will. You want to believe these seeming nice and friendly muslims so badly.

Please read this incident that Debbie related recently:

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/35989/lunch-in-tul-karem-x2-two-pro-palestinian-dumbasses-murdered-by-palestinians/

How will you ever know that one of these ‘nice’ muslims you believe is your friend will do this to you some day? Until the knife appears and your head is pulled back. It will be too late then, won’t it?

You are either not a very well-versed Christian or you are something else. My discussion with you has come to an end.

If you are truly what you purported yourself to be here, I wish you well. I’m not holding out much hope you will be converting too many more muslims. In fact, I fear you will either be converting to islam soon or you will be having a very bad lunch at Tul Karem some day.

Kairn on April 29, 2011 at 9:12 pm

    Kevin is either a Muslim convert, or he’s always been a Muslim who chooses to use an infidel moniker. He’s spewing his taqiyya all over here. As the staunch Irishman Conor Cruise O’Brien wrote in the London Times back in 1989: “Muslim society looks profoundly repulsive…. It looks profoundly repulsive because it is repulsive…. A Westerner who claims to admire Muslim society, whilst still adhering to Western values, is either a hypocrite or an ignoramus or a bit of both. At the heart of the matter is the Muslim family, an abominable institution.” Of course, as a Muslim he will lie about his death-embracing cult. And that is because he doesn’t want infidels to discover the truth. We know that hate-peddling mullahs, clerics and ayatollahs throughout the Muslim world call for the murder of infidels in fiery sermons and issue fatwas aimed at bringing this about. Only Islam has evil hate preachers like this. They’re not holy men. They’re the embodiment of evil. And the Koran does tell Muslims to murder and oppress infidels. That is commanded throughout Sura 9. All the so-called ‘peaceful verses’ have been abrogated out of meaning through the principle of naskh. They’re only there to mislead gullible infidels. As Churchill told us: “The religion of Islam above all others was founded upon the sword … Moreover it provides incentives to slaughter, and in three continents has produced fighting breeds of men – filled with a wild and merciless fanaticism.” He was right, as were so many others of his ilk, like William Gladstone, John Wesley, Hilaire Belloc, Bishop Fulton J. Sheen, Theodore Roosevelt and so many others who were not contaminated by political correctness and multiculturalist mush. And Lara Logan has discovered the hard way the baying mob mentality of that vile cult. Whether she learns or not is anyone’s guess. I hope she does, because nobody deserves what she went through.

    SpiritOf1683 on April 30, 2011 at 4:28 am

Schlussel, You are a lame excuse for a human being. As a Muslim sympathizer, why don’t you go to the mideast and shout, “I’m Jewish! Rape me!” Then, you can take your broken body home and tell us all about your enlightening experience. Just think of how compelling and detailed your blog post will be.

Jack Powers on April 29, 2011 at 9:27 pm

The gang rape of Ms. Logan by moslems is the perfect example of islamic depravity and barbarity.
muslims are ALLOWED to rape women because islamic allah says so in koran. See Jew Lover’s comment above.

If Ms. Logan believes that all men are alike, and that moslem men are no different than non-muslim men, I wonder what her ideal country to live in would be.
I seriously doubt it would be an islamic one.

/OT – This POTUS BC and eligibility issue has me perplexed, consider:

Chris Martin (English, lead vocalist of band Cold Play) is married to American actress Gwyneth Paltrow. Their daughter, Apple Blythe Alison Martin, was born on 14 May 2004 in London. Their second child, Moses Bruce Anthony Martin, was born on 8 April 2006 in New York City.

What’s the answer folks, when an American woman is married to an Englishman regarding childrens’ eligibility for president?
a. both son and daughter are eligible to be president because of an American mother.
b. neither son nor daughter is eligible to be president because of an English father.
c. Daughter Apple (born in London) is ineligible from being president, but son Moses (born in NYC) is eligible.

Even more interesting, consider this:
A Saudi Arabian devout Muslim male marries an American woman and woman has children born in U.S. while Muslim husband remains in Saudi Arabia.
Does this preclude them from being eligible to be POTUS?

Jew Lover on April 29, 2011 at 10:15 pm

wondering if the National Enquirer got another one right. They were right about the Edward’s affair.

“Logan is at the center of a bitter divorce between Joe and Kimberly Burkett. Joe Burkett is a U.S. State Department contractor who was in Baghdad alongside Logan, which is reportedly where the affair began.”

figured you knew… but wondering if this is B.S. or not.
I’m not saying it is true

Noah David Simon on April 29, 2011 at 10:51 pm

Kairn: I am very sad that, being a brother, you are giving ear to this hateful bigoted woman. She is obviously a scarred, wounded person who is lashing out at all targets within easy reach. I read the post you mentioned, and I find it chilling that Debbie just can’t resist mocking the deaths of the people she was reporting about. She really needs help, and you really shouldn’t listen to such a person. Remember what Jesus said: “Take what you listen to. By your standard of measure it will be measured to you; and more will be given you besides. For whoever has, to him more shall be given; and whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him.”

Some other things to think about. Maybe you and I won’t see eye to eye on this issue, but we both (hopefully) respect the authority of scripture. Consider this: “Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom. But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth. This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic. For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing. But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy. And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.” Ask yourself: are the voices you’re listening to voices of peace, gentleness, reasonableness, mercy and goodness? Reading all the hate that both Debbie and the others on this thread have been spewing, I think not. I think your soul has been poisoned by fear and anger, bro, and that worries me. Where have you seen it written that you must hate your enemy? Not in OUR bible. Love doesn’t mean being stupid or naive, it means being for someone’s best interests, even if they don’t deserve it or want it. If Jesus didn’t die on the cross for people like the Muslims, then who? Were we not all enemies when Jesus died for us? Do you no longer believe in God’s ability to save Muslims from the fire ( as He is doing every day, whether you realize it or not)? Are you really putting your trust in the ways of men to fight this perceived threat?

You don’t have to answer these questions to me. It’d be better if you thought about this offline. Maybe you have been thinking about this stuff for ten years, but maybe you need to rethink some things. Who among us never needs to sit back and take stock of ourselves from time to time?

Food for thought…

Kevin Morrow on April 29, 2011 at 11:40 pm

Kevin Morrow:

You cite a passage of the Koran that you deem peace-promoting, namely 5:32: “[I]f anyone slew a person—unless it be for murder or spreading mischief in the land—it would be as if he slew the whole people. And if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people.” But you fail to cite that which comes immediately afterward, which prescribes the punishment for anyone who “spreads disorder (or mischief) in the land(fitna),” by opposing Muhammed, the punishments being crucifixion, amputation of arms or legs, or expulsion. 5:32 refers to what was laid down for the Children of Israel, citing a Hebrew source, but the concluding passage, which you omitted, constitutes a clear threat to the Jews of Medina and elsewhere. In short, the passage in the Koran which you quote, incompletely, is, simply put, a warning to the Jews: Do not get in Muhammed’s way…or else. Your omission of the passage that immediately follows the passage you cite serves to distort the actual meaning of 5:32, disguising its menacing intent.
I have insufficient time to comment on the many other errors you have committed in your post in question. With all due respect, you have much to learn about Islam.

commonsense on April 29, 2011 at 11:50 pm

Any large group of undisciplined men (like muslims) can quickly spiral out of control. There’s a reason why rape and pillage are linked together. Seems common amoung mobs (like this), merceneries, armies that view others as beneath their people(like the muslims view “dhimmi”), and armies raised from a civilian population that aren’t given proper training (again disipline).

You’ve gotten a lot of comments (was that the point?) because you’ve stated, without showing why, that this happened because they are muslims. In addition to being muslims they all had brown skin and black hair but it would be laughable to say that that led to this rape. There are reasons that being muslims lead to this, 7th centuary ethic, low view of non muslims, belief that paradise gratifies the sexual appetites, persecution is worst than slaughter or in this case unbelief is worst than rape, a low view of women.

Sleep now. Must sleep.zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

sg on April 30, 2011 at 4:24 am

Kevin Morrow,

First off, I am your sister in Christ. Not your bro. I am a fully mature woman who can think for herself and makes judgements accordingly. I am very secure in my standing with G-d. I have no patience for people who try to convince me they know more about G-d, Jesus and the Bible than they do. We are each on our own arc of discovery. I believe my arc of discovery has a longer time line than does yours.

Secondly, what you said about Debbie here on her own website was very wrong and shamefully unChristian. I believe you owe her an apology. After that, you should stay away from her website if what she says bothers you so much. It is your prerogative to pray for her (in a nice way).

Thirdly, Debbie is Jewish. She is not compelled to follow the teachings of Jesus. She suffers no fools. And had this not been her Sabbath, I am sure she would have had a few choice rejoinders for you in this comment thread in regards to your naive take on the issue of muslims and islam.

G-d bless my friend.

Kairn on April 30, 2011 at 4:45 am

Skunky, I’m glad you notice the difference between me and that imposter who had the audacity to copy my screen name and try so damn hard to impersonate me. Skunky, if you notice earlier this week the same crap happend on this site, it was on the “Ayn Rand” thread, and that SOB posted at 11:05 pm that night, and I was off my computer at that time. And I was off my computer at 1AM this morning, in my bed trying to sleep.

To that putz who impersonated me I have one thing to say to you, why don’t face all of us with your real name and stop using my name or something elses name and impersonating them or me. And I don’t have NOTHING against Jonathan Grant, I sorta consider the dude a friend of mines via the internet, along with Skunky, NormanF, Infidel Pride, CS, and the other regulars who I can’t quite remember right now. To the imposter, DS can trace your IP address and she’ll find out that who you really are, and if you keep this BS up, one day Debbie will expose you and on this site, embarrass you and give out your email address on these threads if you keep impersonating me or any poster on this site!

“A nation is defined by it’s borders, language & culture!”

Sean R. on April 30, 2011 at 12:40 pm

By the way, the Koran is arranged with the longest verses at the front, to the shorter ones at the end. This makes it hard for the average reader to tell which verses were written first. This is important, because in Islam, the later verses trump and cancel out the earlier ones. It is stated that God can change his mind.
In his early years, Mohammed wrote “softer” verses about love etc. However, later he became a war lord waging war on everyone not muslim. Then he wrote about killing the infidels and so on and essentially the Koran is his art of war book.
There is no conflict therefor about verses. The later ones are the ones to be followed.
A good site for information on this is the religion of peace dot com which updates daily on the atrocities committed around the world by muslims. Since 9/11 there have been over 17,000 attacks on others in the name of islam.

CM on April 30, 2011 at 7:38 pm

i love reading your blog..its so ridiculously ignorant and dumb!!! haha

sarah on April 30, 2011 at 11:32 pm

    Nothing could be more ignorant and dumb than Sarah, though.

    SpiritOf1683 on May 1, 2011 at 2:48 am

he talks at length about the trouble that the Israelis impose on Palestinians, like the difficulty in getting identification papers renewed by hostile, uncooperative Israeli government bureaucrats and the harassment he faces at checkpoints…]

Aaaaaah diddums. Those Paleonazi scrimshankers should thank their lucky stars the Israelis aren’t like the Chinese, otherwise they’d have been wiped off the face of the earth 30 ore more years ago. You couldn’t have imagined the Chinese putting up with rockets being fired at their kindergartens for decades without wiping out those who do it.

SpiritOf1683 on May 1, 2011 at 2:54 am

he talks at length about the trouble that the Israelis impose on Palestinians, like the difficulty in getting identification papers renewed by hostile, uncooperative Israeli government bureaucrats and the harassment he faces at checkpoints…]

Does he want to hear about the problems I’VE run into with Israeli bureauocracy? He faces “harassment” at checkpoints because Israeli soldiers are, quite justifiably. worried that he’s on his way to murder some Jews.

Those Paleonazi scrimshankers should thank their lucky stars the Israelis aren’t like the Chinese, otherwise they’d have been wiped off the face of the earth 30 or more years ago. You couldn’t have imagined the Chinese putting up with rockets being fired at their kindergartens for decades without wiping out those who do it.

SpiritOf1683 on May 1, 2011 at 2:54 am

Reply

Or that they aren’t dealing with their fellow ARABS. The now-so-called “Palestinians” are historically, culturally and linguistically ARABS, and if they pulled 1/2048th of what they pull on the Israelis on their fellow Arabs, they’d all be dead. Ever hear of Hama? Ever hear of Black September?

If the ARAB states had spent 1/4096th of what they’ve spent on wars and propaganda against Israel on helping the now-so-called “Palestinian” refugees, who at one time were always referred to as what they were and are, the ARAB refugees, the now-so-called “Palestinian” refugees would all be riding around in Cadillacs now.

Miranda Rose Smith on May 1, 2011 at 3:10 am

I’ve certainly heard of Hama and Black September. The current Syrian President’s father certainly didn’t mess about. He killed at least 20,000 Palestinians. But the Left doesn’t want to know that.

SpiritOf1683 on May 1, 2011 at 3:19 am

    I’ve certainly heard of Hama and Black September. The current Syrian President’s father certainly didn’t mess about. He killed at least 20,000 Palestinians. But the Left doesn’t want to know that.

    SpiritOf1683 on May 1, 2011 at 3:19 am

    Reply

    They were Syrians, somewhere in between 10,000 and 50,000 Syrians.

    Miranda Rose Smith on May 1, 2011 at 4:00 am

Deuteronomy 25:11-12 NASB
“If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity.”

Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

(Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)

“When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive’s garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion.”

Shad on May 1, 2011 at 4:43 am

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