March 23, 2009, - 1:40 pm

VIDEO – Real March Madness: The NCAA Grinch that Stole John 3:16

By Debbie Schlussel
As most readers know, I am a religious Jew, and therefore, I do not believe in the Christian Bible a/k/a “The New Testament.” I only believe in the Jewish Bible a/k/a “The Old Testament.”
Still, I am a tremendous defender of religious Christians and respect their rights to practice their faith. And that’s why it’s disappointing to note that a security guard snatched and tore a fan’s “John 3:16” sign at the NCAA Basketball Tournament Midwest Region game between Siena and Ohio State. The sign wasn’t bothering anyone, and I’ve seen far more offensive signs (and, for the record, this sign doesn’t offend me) at NCAA March Madness games.
It starts at 14 seconds in, when the fan briefly lowers his sign and the security dude swoops in:

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45 Responses

I wonder if it was an Islamist holding up a sign with a quote from the Koran, if security would have been as pro-active. We’ve been brought up in an America brainwashed into believing the greatest to our freedom are people who believe in the Bible. Deal with the Sunday people first! That’s March Madness at the NCAA!

NormanF on March 23, 2009 at 2:16 pm

That is so wrong. People have been carrying that sign at sports events for years, and no one ever had it snatched away. Fire that security guard and have his boss rethink their policy.

mplumb on March 23, 2009 at 3:16 pm

If I was a ticket paying fan and the person in front of me kept raising a sign (any sign) that obstructed my view, I’d be pissed. Maybe they had a general policy against signs.

Rick on March 23, 2009 at 3:43 pm

You can bet an Obama sign would not have been torn up like that.

Tempus Fugit on March 23, 2009 at 4:12 pm

Only one word can describe this…
DIS-FREAKING-GUSTING!
And Tempus, an ALLAH sign would not be torn up either. DAMN ISLAMOFASCISTS!

NEPatriot on March 23, 2009 at 5:17 pm

OK, Debbie, are you amazing or what? First, I love your honesty–and I know where you are coming from. You are an orthodox Jew, but you don’t believe in shutting down us “proselytizing Christians” who really believe that Jesus is the actual Messiah!
Secondly, I appreciate your stand on this John 3:16 sign, which if looked up, reads, in context:
3:14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life. 16″For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
In the spirit of Isaiah 49:6–he is Savior to both Jews and Gentiles!
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2049:1-7%20;&version=31;

BB on March 23, 2009 at 7:23 pm

i cant see this video because _ ” This video is not available in your country or domain ” but i have a “nice” xianit-amerikanit-choice to see “Siena Cheerleaders on CBS”….
I say; – assume the worst, you’ll NEVER BE DISAPPOINTED!!.
http://mkiaharieh.blogspot.com/
from a distant sfaradi qaraim
best regards from portugal
B”I
JM

I. Mendes on March 23, 2009 at 8:01 pm

First of all I dont know if I would have held back my rage but I probably would have to be restrained. He is not only suppressing free-speech and religion but he also is a THIEF!! That is such a punk thing to do. So everyone else can have signs, but if it is something not worthy of the eye of security then it will be snatched. Code Stink are always holding up signs in Congressional hearings. Even though I don’t agree with their signs they should have the right to protest or put up whatever. I am tired of society where people say they cherish free speech but when someone practices free speech they want to shut it down.

californiascreaming on March 23, 2009 at 8:58 pm

You know, I can’t even get worked up over this, other than to pray for the security guy who probably thought he was doing the right thing. He was, according to the system of this world. But he wasn’t according to the Word of G-d. And that Word also foretold that in the latter days men would grow more and more wicked. I tell you, friends, even little gestures like this show how desperate the devil is and how close we are to the end of days.

MLMOON on March 23, 2009 at 11:24 pm

In the spirit of Isaiah 49:6–he is Savior to both Jews and Gentiles!
Posted by: BB at March 23, 2009 07:23 PM
——————————————–
No, BB. The Isaiah of real history would have been sickened at the thought of gentiles worshipping anything material as a divine being, let alone someone from the Nation of Israel.
ìCease yea of man that has breath in his nostrils, for of what worth is he.î – Isaiah 2:22
Come, BB. Let’s get biblical:
http://outreachjudaism.org/biblical.html

Shy Guy on March 24, 2009 at 3:21 am

I went to the NCAA Regional Finals at Ford Field last year. The information provided to us with our tickets stated that signs “deemed inappropiate” would be confiscated.
I could honestly care less if someone has a John 3:16 sign, as long as they aren’t waving the sign all over the place during gameplay who gives a flying BLEEEEP.

trewsdetroit on March 24, 2009 at 7:20 am

Jesus happened to be speaking to another religious Jew, Nicodemus. Nicodemus would go on to accept Jesus as the promised Messiah that God and the prophets spoke of. He came for the Jews who rejected Him and salvation was opened up for the Gentiles. Why do you think God allowed the temple to be destroyed and the Jews scattered? How are your sins atoned for if you can’t sacrifice? Jesus was the ultimate Passover Lamb who took all sins upon Him. Read Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53, among others.

Blayne on March 24, 2009 at 7:35 am

Blayne, Shabtai Zvi was a false Jewish messiah who converted to Islam. Why do you think any observant Jew would be impressed by some nobody named Nicodemus?
If you want to play Temple destruction theory games, please explain when and how the Jews rejected Jesus before the destruction of the First Temple hundreds of years prior to the destruction of the Second Temple? You can’t. Please explain why the Romans were able to conquer Israel and make its people suffer tremendously way before Jesus was even a smile on his mother’s face? You can’t. But that’s what you get when you don’t know your Jewish history.
Psalm 22? You can’t read Hebrew. One of the oldest missionary booboos on the books:
http://jewsforjudaism.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=76&Itemid=211
No Temple? No sacrifices? Learn:
http://jewsforjudaism.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=342&Itemid=228
And so it was during the iterim between the 1st Temple’s destruction and the 2nd Temple’s dedication. But again, you haven’t been taught elementary Jewish history nor theology to understand that a dead Jew on a stick is meaningless.
Isaiah 53? Oh please!
http://outreachjudaism.org/sin.html
Everything, every last “scripture proof” which they taught you is a sham. Bring ’em on!
(Debbie, sorry to get into this. I am just replying to those Christians who begin shoving their idol worship in our faces).

Shy Guy on March 24, 2009 at 9:02 am

That’s all right Shy Guy. One day you will bow before Jesus as Lord. I just hope and pray it’s done on this side of eternity. Any time Israel turned their back on God, there were consequences. The betrayal of their Messiah was the last one.

Blayne on March 24, 2009 at 9:18 am

You can believe in what you want. But don’t pretend it has any foundations anywhere in the Torah, Prophets and Scriptures. That is all.

Shy Guy on March 24, 2009 at 9:29 am

You’re wrong Shy Guy, but we’ll just agree to disagree. But that is a very dangerous propostion for you, my friend.

Blayne on March 24, 2009 at 9:31 am

And thanks for not being able to rebut my prior post nor acknowledge the consequences of you theological and historical falacies.
Just remember: The truth will set you free!
🙂

Shy Guy on March 24, 2009 at 9:31 am

Yeh. I’m wrong. Because you say so. Yeh.

Shy Guy on March 24, 2009 at 9:32 am

I bet guys like Blayne and BB get so excited whenever Debbie posts anything pro-Christian. “Here’s our chance! She’s breaking! She’ll see the light of Christ any day now!”
I know you’re well-intentioned, but seriously, Jews just want to be left alone. If there’s one lesson to be learned from the past 3,000 years of Jewish history to apply to your daily life, that is it.
You are the reason the average American Jew does not trust Christians. Every sentence of telling us how Jesus is king of the Jews (not to mention vague threats like “that is a very dangerous proposition for you, my friend”) is another reminder of the inquisition. Keep your mouths shut and pray for our conversion in private, would you?

LibertarianBulbasaur on March 24, 2009 at 10:22 am

My only take on this, other than my previous post is this thought to ponder.
I, personally, think that religion is evil.
How else can you explain the countless lives that have been unjustly taken throughout the centuries in the name of whatever faith you believe in?
Whether it was the Crusades, The Inquisition, killed because you chose not to believe in the faith of the ruling king etc…
It is just one huge joke people, which is why our constitution is so great. We all can freely practice, or not practice, in whatever faith you like.

trewsdetroit on March 24, 2009 at 10:27 am

How else can you explain the countless lives that have been unjustly taken throughout the centuries in the name of whatever faith you believe in?
Whether it was the Crusades, The Inquisition, killed because you chose not to believe in the faith of the ruling king etc…
Posted by: trewsdetroit at March 24, 2009 10:27 AM
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What religion ignited WWI and WWII?
Speaking of WWII, what did Nazi anti-reliogionist philosophy do to a certain people?
What religion did all the communist leaders of the last century, men who were some of the greatest butchers of history, what religion did they adhere to?
And not to knock the brutality of the Crusades but their main goal was nothing that wouldn’t have been expected from a world full of atheists. Go learn some history.

Shy Guy on March 24, 2009 at 11:08 am

I’m not disputing the atrocities of two World Wars at all.
Basically the jist of your arguement is that killing is ok as long as it is done with people that are acting behind religion.
Killing is killing no matter what way you try to spin it. Evil is evil no matter if there is religion tied to it or not.

trewsdetroit on March 24, 2009 at 12:23 pm

Basically the jist of your arguement is that killing is ok as long as it is done with people that are acting behind religion.
Posted by: trewsdetroit at March 24, 2009 12:23 PM
————————————————
You have a very warped analytical ability. I said no such thing.
I was responding to your claim that religion is the root behind history’s major wars. That may prove to be true as a majority statistical percentage but it is not the only root and it is often only an excuse behind political and power ploys.
The 100s of millions of murdered victims of non-religious despots and their regimes in the last century alone disprove your misleading claim.

Shy Guy on March 24, 2009 at 12:38 pm

Shy GuyÖyou need to forgive our Evangelical friend. Christians are indeed called to evangelize the world, but it shouldn’t look like this. The Apostle Paul used a much different approach when speaking to his fellow Jews, hopefully BB will reflect on that, looking forward.
LibertarianBulbasaur, “here’s our chance” remark, was quite astute. Chillingly accurate.
You both need to live your Jewish faith, since that is your destiny. Oh, and Debbie and others included.
But for those who are called, our destiny must be different.
I kind of like the fact that Jesus, God the Son (not God the Father or God the Holy Spirit, that distinction is important) entered into human history. The God-Man lived amongst His creation. How could anyone be judged, had not God proven Himself in the very same realm, with the very same limitations.
Yes, Catholics needed something more and that more is Jesus.
Jesus calls us to a higher morality and complete theology.
There ain’t no Real Presence in Protestantism, Evangelicalism or Judaism.
Let’s be honest here, Jesus has an eloquence and example that none have approached since.
Modern Judaism itself is an evolution and reaction to the success of Jesus and His Church.
And Jesus’ timely prophesies have all come true, as expected. Temple destruction, dispersion, conversion of the pagans, growth of the Church, resistance and evil of the world to Christians, unbroken apostolic succession, etc etc.
Unlike BB, I won’t say you are condemned. And I could care less if you are ever converted. At the end of time, God will judge each according to the grace that person was given during his/her lifetime.
I have no idea how God has approached you.
And Shy Guy, all those links you posted. A very quick and definite “no sale” for me ~

The Canadien on March 24, 2009 at 9:40 pm

===========================================
Shy Guy, you need to forgive our Evangelical friend.
——————————————-
No. I don’t.
===========================================
Christians are indeed called to evangelize the world, but it shouldn’t look like this. The Apostle Paul used a much different approach when speaking to his fellow Jews
——————————————-
Yes. Paul connived people into think he was one of them when he was out to lure them away from their heritage.
“And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. And this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.”
– 1 Corinthians 9:20-23
Nothing has changed. Same ol’ ol’.
==============================================
There ain’t no Real Presence in Protestantism, Evangelicalism or Judaism.
———————————————-
Vis a vis Judaism, you speak in complete ignorance.
==============================================
Let’s be honest here, Jesus has an eloquence and example that none have approached since.
———————————————-
Eloquence? No lack of arrogance and viciousness:
“And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.”
– Mark 6:11
“And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever. And his disciples heard it.”
– Mark 11:14
“For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.”
– Matthew 10:35-36
“And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
– Matthew 13:42
“If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.”
– Luke 14:26
Enough humbug. I can’t bother reading further.
==============================================
Modern Judaism itself is an evolution and reaction to the success of Jesus and His Church.
———————————————-
Christian wishful thinking revisionism. So much of what you Christians have is plagiarized from us Jews, not the other way around.
Unless you were referring to “Reform” Judaism. That comes close to Christianity in many ways. You may have it.
===============================================
And Jesus’ timely prophesies have all come true, as expected. Temple destruction, dispersion, conversion of the pagans, growth of the Church, resistance and evil of the world to Christians, unbroken apostolic succession, etc etc.
———————————————–
I am too tired to go through the NT KJV again to point out everything that didn’t come true. You can look them up yourself:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&num=100&q=%2Bjesus+%2Bunfulfilled+%2Bprophecies
Nor do I have the time to point out that the Jews knew that the destruction of the Temple and Jerusalem were imminent.
================================================
I have no idea how God has approached you.
————————————————
At Sinai.
================================================
And Shy Guy, all those links you posted. A very quick and definite “no sale” for me
————————————————
I wasn’t selling. I was rejecting your pagan belief’s faulty and mislabeled wares, which were shoved in my face and offered to me.
“Whoso is wise, let him understand these things, whoso is prudent, let him know them. For the ways of the LORD are right, and the just do walk in them; but transgressors do stumble therein.”
– Hosea 14:10

Shy Guy on March 25, 2009 at 2:45 am

Give it up Christians. Shy Guy and the vast majority of his fellow Jews ignored God’s prophets (and even killed them), ignored their Messiah, ignored Paul, and will ignore God’s adopted children now (the Christians). They are a stiff necked people.

Blayne on March 25, 2009 at 7:41 am

It worked – thank G-d!

Shy Guy on March 25, 2009 at 8:43 am

================================================
ignored their Messiah
Posted by: Blayne at March 25, 2009 07:41 AM
————————————————
Could not leave ignored.
We did no such thing:
http://jewsforjudaism.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=374&Itemid=234
================================================
They are a stiff necked people.
————————————————
That’s right. It is the trait that got us through the torments and suffering of 2000 years of Christian oppression, able to survive to return back to Eretz Hakodesh, the Land of Israel.
Smoke on your pipe and put that in!
“O LORD, Thou hast seen my wrong; judge Thou my cause. Thou hast seen all their vengeance and all their devices against me. Thou hast heard their taunt, O LORD, and all their devices against me; The lips of those that rose up against me, and their muttering against me all the day. Behold Thou their sitting down, and their rising up; I am their song. Thou wilt render unto them a recompense, O LORD, according to the work of their hands. Thou wilt give them hardness of heart, Thy curse unto them. Thou wilt pursue them in anger, and destroy them from under the heavens of the LORD.”
– Lamentations 3:59-66

Shy Guy on March 25, 2009 at 9:53 am

Thanks, Deborah, for the kind words toward us Christians.
I really enjoy your blog, and I hope it does not degenerate as other so called “conservative” blogs have in the past.
Mats from Portugal
God bless

Mats on March 26, 2009 at 9:39 am

Isaiah 52:13 See, my servant will act wisely;
he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted.
14 Just as there were many who were appalled at him his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man and his form marred beyond human likenessó
15 so will he sprinkle many nations, and kings will shut their mouths because of him. For what they were not told, they will see, and what they have not heard, they will understand.
53:1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
And who can speak of his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.
11 After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

BB on March 26, 2009 at 8:39 pm

Saying a lie over and over doesn’t make it true. I already responded to BB’s clutching to the Christian straw of Isaiah 53.
Here it is again and – remember – “the truth will set you free”!
Who is Godís Suffering Servant? The Rabbinic interpretation of Isaiah 53:
http://outreachjudaism.org/sin.html

Shy Guy on March 27, 2009 at 12:30 am

Outreach Judaism also has a page with MP3 lectures which can be listened to, including a 2 part series on Isaiah 53 and the “suffering servant.” Those can be found here:
http://www.outreachjudaism.org/biblical.html
I thank you, BB, for giving me the excuse to bring up these matters. Keep up the good work!

Shy Guy on March 27, 2009 at 12:34 am

CHRISTIANS boycott any event that tries to suppress your John 3:16 message. Break them financially. But don’t do it for me, do it for Jesus! Don’t let some obese mall cop, with only his Grade 10, dictate acceptability.
Shy GuyÖWhile Rabbi Singer makes a valiant attempt at tackling the “new exodus”, Jews leaving Judaism, and the”errors” of Christian exegesis, the rabbi’s Scriptural arguments will work better with Evangelicals and Protestants, than with Catholics.
Protestants embrace the Jewish OT canon, but Catholics do not. Our Catholic Old Testament includes seven additional books.
Protestants do however embrace our Catholic canon of the New Testament. Martin Luther attempted to throw out several New Testament books much to the horror of his followers, and other Protestant reformers. Luther eventually put them back, but not before some Bibles were printed with the “Luther” canon.
Protestants and Evangelicals do a lot of leaning. On other authoritative bodies. Whether Jewish or Catholic.
Catholics don’t. Like the Jews we have an Oral and Written Tradition. The Prots’ have only the written. That Bible in their hands. And therefore their theology is often muddled and superficial. Their arguments for what they believe, oft simple and oft contradictory.
I commend the rabbi for continually making a strong effort at being respectful to other religions but his “points” assume that everyone, even all Jews, will accept his interpretations of the Old Testament. Clever. But, lacking.
There is a duality of Scripture. If Scripture only recounted ancient historical Israel with no eye to the future, or the presentÖwhat value would it have? It would just be like a regional novel, entertaining, but with no real power to move, or to motivate, or to guide. But the Bible was always meant to speak to the pagans, and not just to the Chosen. Our God is a generous God.
But how do I judge a religion?
Why it’s quite easy.
By morality! And theology!!
Does your religion allow divorce? Multiple wives?? Was it like that in the Garden of Eden? Garbage.
Does your religion allow abortion? Your religion is evil, and morally bankrupt. And garbage.
Does your religion allow euthanasia? Once again, your religionÖevil, and garbage.
Does your religion allow condoms? I don’t see any condoms hanging in the Garden. Evil invention of Modern man who hates children because they infringe on his recreation. In the Bible children ARE ONLY described as a blessing! Get away from me you secular humanist scum! You are the demons that walk the earth.
Did your religion begin with Luther, Zwingali, Joseph Smith, Mary Eddy Baker and not Jesus and the Apostles? Garbage.
Does your religion lack a central organizing body? Does your religion have less organization than the US Marine Corp, without a proper hierarchy, and a consummate leader for all to see, and approach? Like David or Moses or the Pope linked to Peter? My God doesn’t work in chaos. Your religion is garbage.
Do you think in-vitro fertilization is okay? God, the Great One, created a natural way from the beginning, to join with Him, in the transmission of life. And for all time. Get out of my sight, you mankind idolators.
Do you value your family above the Lord God? Are you closer to them, or your spouse, than to Him?? When was the last time you prayed to God? Really prayed. Your devotion is worthless. Get out of my sight, heathen dog.
Does your religion approve of terrorism, or totalitarian rule to achieve its’ ends? Then your religion is really hatred and murder, and from the Evil One. Do you Communists think anything you can now say, or do, will redeem the horror you brought into this world? And you Muslim insurrectionists, even the pagans see what you are, quite clearly. And your evil manipulating. You have earned their hatred.
Does your religion have devotees who renounce all, to draw closer to God? No? Then your religion is kinda’ ordinary, ain’t it ~
I could go on.

The Canadien on March 27, 2009 at 4:17 am

Shy Guy,
Aren’t you the same guy who was attacking Jindal because you thought he was making room for “creationism” to be taught?
Secondly, if you are the one, do you believe in what Exodus 20:11 says, since you apear to be a devout religious Jew?

Mats on March 27, 2009 at 6:16 am

==================================================
I commend the rabbi for continually making a strong effort at being respectful to other religions but his “points” assume that everyone, even all Jews, will accept his interpretations of the Old Testament.
————————————————–
But they are not his interpretations. They are the original commentaries, before Christianity twisted them.
It is Christianity that has the burden of proving that these verses refer to someone who in concept was abhorent to Isaiah just as he would have been to Moses. Christianity is forced to take a chapter out of context, out of style and out of original Hebrew words in order to shape and mold its interpretations.
The classic comparison of Christianity’s toying with TANACH verses is to one who shoots and arrow at a tree and then paints a bullseye around it.
==================================================
There is a duality of Scripture.
————————————————–
No. Not always. There can be but this is not an overall rule to apply to every verse.
==================================================
If Scripture only recounted ancient historical Israel with no eye to the future, or the presentÔø?what value would it have?
————————————————–
I have no idea what you base such assumptions upon. The TANACH is full of prophecy, up to the end of days.
==================================================
It would just be like a regional novel, entertaining, but with no real power to move, or to motivate, or to guide.
————————————————–
And if that was what G-d commanded of mankind, what would you do about it? Rebel? The point is academic but do you really want to go down this avenue.
==================================================
But the Bible was always meant to speak to the pagans, and not just to the Chosen. Our God is a generous God.
————————————————–
Have you put on Tefilin today? I thought not.
What are the Torah laws of slander against one another or returning a lost article belonging to someone else? You don’t know.
==================================================
But how do I judge a religion?
Why it’s quite easy.
By morality! And theology!!
Does your religion…….
Does your religion…….
Does your religion…….
Does your religion…….
Does your religion…….
Does your religion…….
Does your religion…….
Does your religion…….
————————————————–
We judge a religion by its historical truth – not by approving the morals we “suppose” are moral.
What did G-d say is moral?
What did G-d teach as correct?
What does G-d want us to do?
Judaism believes that G-d knows best:
http://www.aish.com/torahportion/kolyaakov/God_Knows_Best.asp
The moment you begin saying “I think” and “I want” and “I believe” and “I hope”, you are touching the foundation stone of Avodah Zarah – incorrectly translated as “idol worship.”
==================================================
I could go on.
————————————————–
So it seems.

Shy Guy on March 27, 2009 at 6:18 am

==================================================
Shy Guy,
Aren’t you the same guy who was attacking Jindal because you thought he was making room for “creationism” to be taught?
————————————————–
No. The only time I have commented in writing on Jindal anywhere is in this sentence.
==================================================
Secondly, if you are the one, do you believe in what Exodus 20:11 says, since you apear to be a devout religious Jew?
————————————————–
I’m not the one. For everyone’s reference, Exodus 20:11 is the 5th of the Ten Commandments:
“Honour thy father and thy mother, that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.”
Why do you question my belief in this Mitzvah (obligatory commandment) more than in any of the other 612 Mitzvot?
I can’t wait to find out.

Shy Guy on March 27, 2009 at 6:24 am

Hey, Mats, speaking of the 10 Commandments, how do you excuse yourself on the 2nd?
“You shall have no other gods before Me” (Exodus 20:3 and Deuteronomy 5:7).
G-d declares: “I am the first, and I am the last, and beside Me there is no god” (Isaiah 44:6).
Surely, a belief in “god the father,” “god the son,” and “god the holy spirit” does not satisfy G-d’s command even when one claims that these three distinct personages are really a tri-unity.
Even to make Jesus into “a god” but not G-d Himself denies G-d’s declaration that He alone is G-d. Such a belief creates a dualistic system of shared divinity unrelated to the teachings of the Torah, Prophets and Scriptures.

Shy Guy on March 27, 2009 at 6:35 am

***** I’m not the one. For everyone’s reference, Exodus 20:11 is the 5th of the Ten Commandments:
“Honour thy father and thy mother, that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.”*******
Actually, Exodus 20:11 says:
11For IN SIX DAYS the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
******* Why do you question my belief in this Mitzvah (obligatory commandment) more than in any of the other 612 Mitzvot? *******
I don’t.
***** Hey, Mats, speaking of the 10 Commandments, how do you excuse yourself on the 2nd? *****
I don’t either
***** “You shall have no other gods before Me” (Exodus 20:3 and Deuteronomy 5:7). *****
I don’t have other gods besides the God of Genesis 1.
****** G-d declares: “I am the first, and I am the last, and beside Me there is no god” (Isaiah 44:6). Surely, a belief in “god the father,” “god the son,” and “god the holy spirit” does not satisfy G-d’s command ******
Wait a minute. “God’s command”, or your definition of Who God is?
***** Even to make Jesus into “a god” but not G-d Himself denies G-d’s declaration that He alone is G-d. ******
But we don’t make Jesus “into a god” anymore than Gideon made the Angel of the LORD “into a god” in Judges 6:12-23
***** Such a belief creates a dualistic system of shared divinity unrelated to the teachings of the Torah, Prophets and Scriptures. *****
You mean, unrelated to YOUR understanding of the TaNaKh.

Mats on March 27, 2009 at 9:26 am

Getting ready for the Sabbath here in Jerusalem. Last post of the day.
==================================================
Actually, Exodus 20:11 says:
11For IN SIX DAYS the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
————————————————–
That’s Genesis. Not Exodus.
No problem. My answer is still yes, of course I believe it and practice it, too.
At least now I comprehend what Jindal had to do with this.
==================================================
Wait a minute. “God’s command”, or your definition of Who God is?
————————————————–
And entire nation of an estimated 3 million Jews understood clearly at the revelation at Sinai that G-d is not and never will be physical in form. No one changed any definitions or understandings until over 1000 years after the Sinai revelation, when masses of pagans took on a completely unhistorical defintion of the Torah’s definition of the Creator of the Universe, in violation of the 2nd of the 10 Commandments.
==================================================
But we don’t make Jesus “into a god” anymore than Gideon made the Angel of the LORD “into a god” in Judges 6:12-23
————————————————-
I have no idea what you want from Judges 6.
So then, Jesus was an angel, not a human? And you are worshipping an angel? Gideon didn’t.
I’m sure you’ll clarify but I have no more time.
=================================================
You mean, unrelated to YOUR understanding of the TaNaKh.
————————————————-
No. Once again, unrelated to history. There was no such concept as a Jesus, a virgin Mary, a cross, the word “christ” – nada – zippo – gernicht – none of it existed in all of the history of Judaism until…………
Until……. Christianity decided to find self-justification in it’s paganism by twisting verses in the Tanach, mistranslating words – usually out of laughable ignorance, and so so many times removing verses out of their context and precedents as to be a mockery once revealed.
But that doesn’t bother you because you really are afraid of the consequences of the truth being revealed to you. It is hard to esape the lies of 2000 years. Good luck to you, nevertheless. Seek and ye shall find.
And, Debbie, Shabbat Shalom. Sorry for this diversion.

Shy Guy on March 27, 2009 at 9:51 am

Shy Guy,
JESUS said, “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life.”
MORALITY is a part of that WayÖShy Guy. For all eternity. In the beginning and in the end. God DOES NOT change!
Condoms are a form of ONANISM. Reason things out to their proper and FULL conclusionó
Don’t be a Protestant.
Where are the rabbis worldwide who are condemning the evil of abortion? Where are they?? Are you saying abortion is virtuous?
Anybody who comes to me claiming his religion is the right one, historical truth and such, but has irrelevant morality, or an uninspired one, is going to get some damn good kicks to the shins.
And when he is bent over comforting himself he is then going to get some damn good kicks to the ass.
Get outta’ here with that garbage!!!
JESUS returns us to that original morality; no concessions this time. Bye, bye Deuteronomy.
And you’re right, God knows best.
So that is why in the New Testament narratives of the “Transfiguration of Jesus” on Mount Tabor, Jesus becomes radiant and proceeds to speak with Moses and Elijah, the two preeminent figures of Judaism. Jesus’ gathering with, and conversation with these two lofty personages, who represent the Law and the Prophets respectively, symbolize that Jesus has now fulfilled the “the law and the prophets”.
Also the prophesy of Malachi 4 is fulfilled at this point, (appearance of Elijah first before the arrival of the Messiah) although only Peter, James and John, the inner three, witness the MIRACULOUS event and not the general public of Israel. The three disciples are directed to keep “the event” to themselves.
Before all present, Jesus is identified as “Son” by God.
But Shy Guy if you won’t at least explore all the evidence that demands a verdict, the weighty New Testament on your own, but listen only to quips from Rabbi SingerÖwell that’s somewhat insular and timid, don’t ya’ think?
If these and other events happened, and you can’t for sure say they didn’tÖdon’t err with the wrong conclusion.
Our Catholic Oral Tradition begins with Jesus and later the Apostles who disclose the meaning and reveal the fulfillment of so many obscure Old Testament passages, by both Jesus and the Church. Jesus fulfills numerous, literally hundreds of Old Testament passages, by his own life and death.
During his life with the disciples, Jesus links it all together for the disciples who don’t readily see it.
The abbreviated version of this type of encounter with Jesus occurs on the Road to Emmaus (Luke 24:13-35) with other minor followers of Jesus.
From an on-line Protestant Bible:
[13] Now that same day two of them were going to a village called Emmaus, about seven miles from Jerusalem. [14] They were talking with each other about everything that had happened. [15] As they talked and discussed these things with each other, Jesus himself came up and walked along with them; [16] but they were kept from recognizing him.
[17] He asked them, “What are you discussing together as you walk along?”
They stood still, their faces downcast. [18] One of them, named Cleopas, asked him, “Are you only a visitor to Jerusalem and do not know the things that have happened there in these days?”
[19] “What things?” he asked.
“About Jesus of Nazareth,” they replied. “He was a prophet, powerful in word and deed before God and all the people. [20] The chief priests and our rulers handed him over to be sentenced to death, and they crucified him; [21] but we had hoped that he was the one who was going to redeem Israel. And what is more, it is the third day since all this took place. [22] In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning [23] but didn’t find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive. [24] Then some of our companions went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but him they did not see.”
[25] He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! [26] Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” [27] And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.
[28] As they approached the village to which they were going, Jesus acted as if he were going farther. [29] But they urged him strongly, “Stay with us, for it is nearly evening; the day is almost over.” So he went in to stay with them.
[30] When he was at the table with them, he took bread, gave thanks, broke it and began to give it to them. [31] Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight. [32] They asked each other, “Were not our hearts burning within us while he talked with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”.
History continues, you knowÖ

The Canadien on March 27, 2009 at 9:55 am

==================================================
JESUS said, “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life.”
————————————————–
Who cares what a mediocre, arrogant and heretical leaning dead Jew from 2000 years ago said?!
Rather, you should be paying careful attention to what the Prophet Isaiah said hundreds of years prior:
“Thus saith the LORD, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer the LORD of hosts: I am the first, and I am the last, and beside Me there is no God.”
– Isaiah 44:6
Take a hint. You’ve been had.
==================================================
MORALITY is a part of that WayÔø?Shy Guy. For all eternity.
————————————————–
You obviously did not understand what I posted above. I suggest you read what I said again.
==================================================
God DOES NOT change!
————————————————–
Isaiah 44:6, above, is laughing at you – for your hypocrisy.
==================================================
Where are the rabbis worldwide who are condemning the evil of abortion? Where are they??
————————————————–
I hear and read them plenty. It’s not my fault you are ignorant on current events, Jewish law, rabbis, Jewish community organizations and charities that work against unlawful abortion.
=================================================
Are you saying abortion is virtuous?
————————————————-
Until you brought up the subject, I never mentioned abortion. Back to reading comprehension 101 you go.
==================================================
Anybody who comes to me claiming his religion is the right one, historical truth and such, but has irrelevant morality, or an uninspired one, is going to get some damn good kicks to the shins.
————————————————–
And you keep pontificating against something no one said here.
==================================================
JESUS returns us to that original morality; no concessions this time. Bye, bye Deuteronomy.
————————————————–
But you just said and I quote you verbatim:
“God DOES NOT change!”
So, Deuteronomy (why pick on Deuteronomy?) was a mistake because some dead Jew on a stick said so?
Uh huh.
The rest of your post, mostly consisting of NT fables, is of no interest to me because Jesus is a non-starter. It is circular reasoning to attempt to prove the validity of your claims by siting texts viewed as ficticious in the first place.
And you have long ago lost the battle of trying to weasel out any proof to your religion’s claims from the Tanach, in which G-d had laid down the prohibition of such idolotrous worship long before, as well as the prohibition of false prophecy, precisely as the NT testifies Jesus was.
No wonder you’re so quick to do away with Deuteronomy. Hot potato!
You bark against Rabbi Tovia Singer but there’s no bite. Just empty quips of “I’m right because Jesus said so.”
You should be terribly bothered as long as your religion continues to lay even the slightest claim to legitimacy from the Torah. Nothing you have posted passes the test.
But remember: the truth will set you free!!! Even that half a sentence of your faith is beyond your grasp.
🙂

Shy Guy on March 29, 2009 at 1:34 am

Oops. I skipped one last point. Your claim that Malachi 4’s stating that Elijah’s coming before the messiah was fullfilled.
First, ain’t it funneh that such a historical event, so desparately sought by the entire Jewish nation for hundreds and hundreds of years before any Jesus of yours was around, is not registered by historians anywhere else in any ancient writings? Not by Jews. Not by Romans. Nobody. Hint. Hint.
Second of all, Elijah does not appear in the New Testament, but Christian apologists like yourself claim that John the Baptist came “in the spirit” of Elijah, even though John the Baptist explicitly denied this (John 1:19-21).
Besides, John certainly didn’t reconcile families, and the prophecy of Malachi 3:23-24 seems to be pretty plain that Elijah himself will appear – not someone similar or in the same spirit as he.
But your biggest concern should be verse 22, right before the above 2 verses. It is the introduction to the arrival of Elijah, in good hour:
“Remember ye the law of Moses My servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, even statutes and ordinances. ”
Any more straws you wish to clutch at? Grasp the truth. It will set you free. For now, you are falling, no matter how tight you shut your eyes.

Shy Guy on March 29, 2009 at 1:59 am

Shy GuyÖ
Jesus is hardly mediocre. Ghandi modeled his spirituality after him. Billions of lives have been forever altered because this man came into the world. Show some realism. Rabbi Singer is mediocre in proper contrast. And are you even significant?
We know how Aaron thought he was equivalent to Moses.
Jesus found fault with various Jewish sects at the time of his arrival. Sadducees, Pharisees, the Essene etc. All because each group polarized around an issue or some other rigid rendering of biblical texts. You claim to be able to offer a proper understanding of the OT but Jesus countered by saying you religious don’t know anything! You can’t read the texts at all! A superficial reading of the text. Historical or moral renderings only.
In my New Testament there is a parable about the Good Samaritan. I’m sure you’ve heard of it. Your average Protestant or Evangelical would tell you that parable is about hypocrisy and appearances and finally extending proper human kindness. Erroneous. At a secondary level, yes. But the parable is really about Jesus. How the Law is not enough for mankind. The priest, and a Levite who pass the half dead man do so because really they can bring no spiritual assistance to the man. The Law only condemns. And sacrifices are an interim The half-dead man can only be redeemed by the work of Jesus. When Jesus returns, after winning Redemption for mankindÖhe will finish the work he started by sending the Holy Spirit.
And Jesus is everywhere in the Old Testament.
The text in Genesis says quite clearly,
Genesis 1:26
“”Then God said, ìLet Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea Öî
Genesis 3:22
“Then the Lord God said, ìBehold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever,”
Genesis 11:7
ìCome, let Us go down and there confuse their languageÖ
How can God be an us?
By being a Trinity.
The Father is not the Son, and both are not the Spirit. Three Persons, one God. And that revelation is still a mystery because it seems to be contradictory.
God used a series of SIX covenants with His people, throughout salvation history, to draw His people into His realm of sonship. Starting with Adam (marital), Noah (household), Abraham (tribal), Moses (national), David (national kingdom), and ending with the New Covenant established through Jesus Christ (international kingdom) which is maintained by the Catholic Church.
And may I remind you that if Jesus hadn’t brought Christians the Good News, it would be the duty of all people to become Jewish.
The Catholic Catechism understands and declares the special status of the Jewish people throughout salvation history. The Muslims are recognized as a large religious body that believes in God, and that is about it. Catholics owe them nothing. But we owe everything to the Jews.
But we have also grown into our own. We continue to take the Final Covenant everywhere we can to follow God’s command to do, in both Testaments.

The Canadien on March 30, 2009 at 4:00 pm

======================================================
Jesus is hardly mediocre. Ghandi modeled his spirituality after him.
——————————————————
Some Ghandi quotes:
“If there ever could be a justifiable war in the name of and for humanity, a war against Germany, to prevent the wanton persecution of a whole race, would be completely justified. But I do not believe in any war. A discussion of the pros and cons of such a war is therefore outside my horizon or province.”
– Letter in Harijan (1938)
“The cry for the national home for the Jews does not make much appeal to me. The sanction for it is sought in the Bible and the tenacity with which the Jews have hankered after return to Palestine. Why should they not, like other peoples of the earth, make that country their home where they are born and where they earn their livelihood?”
– Gandhi’s Collected Works, Vol 74 (1938)
“Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French. It is wrong and in-human to impose the Jews on the Arabs.”
– Gandhi’s Collected Works, Vol 74 (1938)
“Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest.”
– Gandhi, An Autobiography, p. 446 (Beacon Press paperback edition)
“I do not consider Hitler to be as bad as he is depicted. He is showing an ability that is amazing and seems to be gaining his victories without much bloodshed.”
– Statement in May of 1940; for proper context it should be noted that at this time the battles of World War II were just beginning, with Germany’s blitzkrieg indeed swift and relatively bloodless compared to the trench battles of the First World War, and the persecution of the Jews in the eyes of the world was limited to lowered civil rights, concentration camps and ghettos. Just a few years before even so notable an opponent to Hitler (and Gandhi himself) as Winston Churchill, in his book Great Contemporaries (1937) had declared: “One may dislike HitlerÔø?s system and yet admire his patriotic achievement. If our country were defeated, I hope we should find a champion as admirable to restore our courage and lead us back to our place among the nations.”
“I appeal for cessation of hostilities … because war is bad in essence. You want to kill Nazism. Your soldiers are doing the same work of destruction as the Germans. The only difference is that perhaps yours are not as thorough as the Germans … I venture to present you with a nobler and a braver way, worthy of the bravest soldiers. I want you to fight Nazism without arms or … with non-violent arms. I would like you to lay down the arms you have as being useless for saving you or humanity. You will invite Herr Hitler and Signor Mussolini to take what they want of the countries you call your possessions. Let them take possession of your beautiful island, with your many beautiful buildings. You will give all these but neither your souls, nor your minds. If these gentlemen choose to occupy your homes, you will vacate them. If they do not give you free passage out, you will allow yourself, man, woman and child, to be slaughtered, but you will refuse to owe allegiance to them … I am telling His Excellency the Viceroy that my services are at the disposal of His Majesty’s Government, should they consider them of any practical use in advancing the object of my appeal.”
– “To Every Briton” (1940)
But the one which tops them all is:
“Hitler killed five million Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butcher’s knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs. As it is, they succumbed anyway in their millions.”
– The Life of Mahatma Gandhi, Louis Fischer. The quote is in the the context of Gandhi’s argument to his biographer that collective suicide would have been a heroic response that would have “aroused the world and the people of Germany to Hitler’s violence”.
As far as I’m concerned, both of your cult heros can enjoy hell together for eternity.
=====================================================
Billions of lives have been forever altered because this man came into the world.
—————————————————–
I never argued that Jesus was a detriment to the pagan world. To quote Jewish born prime minister of Britain, Benjamin D’Israeli:
“Yes, I am a Jew, and when the ancestors of the right honorable gentleman were brutal savages in an unknown island, mine were priests in the temple of Solomon.”
– Reply to a taunt by Daniel O’Connell
=====================================================
Show some realism. Rabbi Singer is mediocre in proper contrast.
—————————————————–
Yet you can’t come up with any rational, factual based argument against him. In effect, Rabbi Singer is proving to be a greater Torah scholar than Jesus. Frankly, it’s almost child’s play.
=====================================================
And are you even significant?
—————————————————–
In my belief system, every human being is like an entire world. It depends what the world is doing. But if you insist on pursuing this path, look in the mirror.
=====================================================
We know how Aaron thought he was equivalent to Moses.
—————————————————–
Who is “we”? What does this have to do with the mortgage rates in China?
=====================================================
Jesus found fault with various Jewish sects at the time of his arrival. Sadducees, Pharisees, the Essene etc. All because each group polarized around an issue or some other rigid rendering of biblical texts.
—————————————————–
So? Like, wow, a critic!
=====================================================
You claim to be able to offer a proper understanding of the OT but Jesus countered by saying you religious don’t know anything!
—————————————————–
No wonder most everyone at the time thought him insignificant. History has lots of folks like this – no lack of them being Jewish in origin.
====================================================
You can’t read the texts at all!
—————————————————-
How’s your Hebrew? Biblical? Modern?
I thought so.
====================================================
A superficial reading of the text. Historical or moral renderings only.
—————————————————-
Remember, you asked for this. Here we go.
====================================================
In my New Testament there is a parable about the Good Samaritan. I’m sure you’ve heard of it. Your average Protestant or Evangelical would tell you that parable is about hypocrisy and appearances and finally extending proper human kindness. Erroneous. At a secondary level, yes. But the parable is really about Jesus. How the Law is not enough for mankind. The priest, and a Levite who pass the half dead man do so because really they can bring no spiritual assistance to the man. The Law only condemns. And sacrifices are an interim The half-dead man can only be redeemed by the work of Jesus. When Jesus returns, after winning Redemption for mankindÔø?he will finish the work he started by sending the Holy Spirit.
—————————————————-
Once again, you are trying to convince someone about the truth of Jesus through a claim based on the books that define your own religion. Jesus is the truth because a disciple of his said so. Can I do the same with Mohamed, please.
Back to the drawing board……………….
============================================
And Jesus is everywhere in the Old Testament.
The text in Genesis says quite clearly,
Genesis 1:26
“”Then God said, Ôø?Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea Ôø?Ôø?
——————————————–
Nope. No Jesus there. Not even the letter “J” in the whole verse.
For your problem with “let us”, in the plural, see:
http://jewsforjudaism.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=164&Itemid=211
============================================
Genesis 3:22
“Then the Lord God said, Ôø?Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever,”
Genesis 11:7
Ôø?Come, let Us go down and there confuse their languageÔø?
How can God be an us?
By being a Trinity.
——————————————–
I’ll ad a different link for these 2 verses, just in case you haven’t caught on yet from the link above:
http://www.outreachjudaism.org/genesis1-26.html
And here’s the laughable historic background of what led up to the concoction of a trinity doctrine:
http://www2.xlibris.com/BOOKSTORE/book_excerpt.asp?bookid=30157
I’m glad you guys got it down pat – after a few hundred years.
============================================
So, according to you, G-d
The Father is not the Son, and both are not the Spirit. Three Persons, one God. And that revelation is still a mystery because it seems to be contradictory.
——————————————–
It is jibberish, based on historic pagan beliefs which went over well in converting such people 2000 years ago. It has zero historic validity in Torah verses and in Israel’s national and prophetic history. In short, it is a sham.
============================================
God used a series of SIX covenants with His people, throughout salvation history, to draw His people into His realm of sonship. Starting with Adam (marital), Noah (household), Abraham (tribal), Moses (national), David (national kingdom), and ending with the New Covenant established through Jesus Christ (international kingdom) which is maintained by the Catholic Church.
——————————————–
This is all very nice and dandy, this talk about covenants. But the last one you listed isn’t. And to save you some time, read:
http://jewsforjudaism.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=85&Itemid=211
============================================
And may I remind you that if Jesus hadn’t brought Christians the Good News, it would be the duty of all people to become Jewish.
——————————————–
So in effect, since Jesus was a heretical Jew and a false messiah, he steered humanity away from the truth of the G-d of the Universe. That must hurt in the next world.
BTW, the Torah does not teach that the entire world must or will become Jewish. You can choose to be a completely righteous non-Jew by obeying the Noahide Laws:
http://www.hasidicuniversity.org/index.php?page=hu_theocracy/th_toc.htm
(I have no connection with the site. I just googled it and use the above page link for reference).
Right now, you’ve been goofing off on Law #1.
============================================
The Catholic Catechism understands and declares the special status of the Jewish people throughout salvation history. The Muslims are recognized as a large religious body that believes in God, and that is about it. Catholics owe them nothing. But we owe everything to the Jews.
——————————————–
That’s very nice and sweet and I’m glad some things can work out toward a mutual toleration. Here’s a smiley: 🙂
============================================
But we have also grown into our own. We continue to take the Final Covenant everywhere we can to follow God’s command to do, in both Testaments.
——————————————–
Time cures all ills:
“Thus saith the LORD of hosts: In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold, out of all the languages of the nations, shall even take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying: We will go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.'”
– Zechariah 8:23
See you then! But – so help me – I ain’t wearing no skirt!

Shy Guy on March 31, 2009 at 1:10 am

I just want to add one response to these words of yours:
==================================================
Jesus found fault with various Jewish sects at the time of his arrival. Sadducees, Pharisees, the Essene etc. All because each group polarized around an issue or some other rigid rendering of biblical texts.
————————————————–
“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
– Matthew 7:1-2
What hypocrisy!
BTW, the verses’ teaching is complete nonsense.

Shy Guy on March 31, 2009 at 2:20 am

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