May 30, 2012, - 12:59 pm

Poles Were Complicit in Holocaust: Outrage Over Obama “Gaffe” is Fraudulent, Ignorant

By Debbie Schlussel

Barack Obama has done enough legitimately bad things that we don’t need to manufacture phony outrage over things he does that really aren’t so bad. Such is the case with the feigned shock and fake moralizing over his comments, yesterday, about German Nazi death camps in Poland being a Polish death camp. Here’s a tip for Poland and ignoramuses in the lumpenconservatariat who now engage in revisionist history: Poles murdered millions of Jews, they maintained several death camps, and they wiped out almost all of both sides of my family, as well as those in hundreds of thousands of other Jewish families. This wasn’t just the Nazis. It was tens of thousands of eager Poles and more. Obama made no gaffe here. Poland’s willing executioners took their significant place among Hitler’s willing executioners.


Poland’s Warsaw Ghetto Existed Because of Polish Complicity

swastika.jpg

Two Things That Weren’t Exactly Mutually Exclusive

There is a reason why Poland was so easily occupied by the Germans. Yeah, I know–they were “just taking orders.” Just taking orders when they helped round up Jews and helped man gas chambers. As if Nazis from Germany did this alone! Polish police all too happily worked with the SS to round up Jews. Polish police all too easily took their place in helping run and operate the death camps. Facts are stubborn things. But, sadly, not as stubborn as morons and blind partisans.

I had to laugh when I read this:

Poland’s Prime Minister Donald Tusk said Wednesday Obama’s words had hurt all Poles and he expected more from Washington than just “regret”.

Are you kidding? Someone needs to remind Mr. Tusk that his people were the ones doing the hurting and the turning over to the Nazis and the mass murder of at least half of the six million Jews killed in the Holocaust, some of them from my family. You are “hurt” by calling Nazi death camps, “Polish”???? Um, where were they? Who helped operate them and round up and turn in the camps’ Jewish occupants, soon to be turned into ash and fumes?


There is a reason that President Obama, yesterday, awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom posthumously to Jan Karski, the former Polish underground officer who provided early eyewitness accounts of Nazi Germany’s genocide of European Jews. And that’s because Karski was unlike most of his fellow Poles, who hated Jews just as the Nazis did and proudly turned them over to the Nazis and/or participated in the mass murderous Judenrein. Even in the Polish underground, hatred of Jews was legion. My great-uncle was in the Polish underground, until they slit his throat while he was sleeping because, one day, the head of the Polish underground demanded a cleansing of its Jews, too.

My paternal grandmother had eleven brothers and sisters. Only one brother survived the Holocaust after the Poles murdered the rest along with her parents, after Poles seized their farm. (Grandma Marilyn was brought to the U.S. before the Holocaust began.) My maternal grandmother had only one surviving sister and brother, out of ten siblings. All the rest–and her parents–were murdered by the Poles. My maternal grandfather’s entire family was wiped out by the Poles. Grandpa Isaac’s father was mayor of the town and owned a hardware store. He hid in the haystacks of a Pole who owed him money and had bought tools on credit, but my grandfather escaped and was ultimately rounded up to the camps, after he heard the Pole tell neighbors he was going to trade my grandfather to the Nazis for a bottle of whisky.

My family and the millions of Jews wiped out in Poland never identified as Polish because the Poles never treated them that way. They were subject to centuries of pogroms and extreme anti-Semitism by the country in which they lived, before they were ultimately rounded up to the camps and mass-murdered with Polish cooperation. They were treated as subhuman all along the way, never as fellow “Polish.” So it’s beyond hilarious now to hear that the Poles are “hurt” by Obama’s description of a German Nazi death camp as “Polish.” As if there weren’t any Polish ones or as if the Poles had zero part in the Holocaust they all too eagerly participated in. Read the 93 pages of “Bystanders, Blackmailers, and Perpetrators: Polish Complicity During the Holocaust” for just a taste of what the Poles wrought on the Jews.

Yes, it is laughable that the Poles, Rush Limbaugh, self-hating Jew Matt Drudge, and a gazillion Republicans and incredibly obtuse and ignorant members of the lumpenconservatariat–most of them no different from the Obamabots in their lack of intelligence, knowledge, and common sense and decency–are incensed over this “gaffe” that really ain’t a gaffe at all. It’s intellectual dishonesty to insist that these death camps on Polish soil were not at all Polish and merely “German Nazi.” Here’s a list of the Polish ones–did they not exist? Did they exist in Poland only because the Germans did this and the Polish had no part? Only a liar or a moron would make these claims. The White House should have made no apology to Poland. These major death camps existed in Poland for a reason: Polish complicity in the Holocaust and willing cooperation with the Nazis.

* Auschwitz

* Belzec

* Chelmno

* Gross-Rosen

* Majdanek

* Plaszow

* Sobibor

* Stutthof

* Treblinka

Keep these names in your mind when you read this quote:

Poland’s government keenly watches the global media for descriptions of former Nazi German death camps as “Polish” because it says the term — even if used simply as a geographical indicator — can give the impression that Poland bore responsibility for Nazi Germany’s World War II genocide.

Although located in Poland, Auschwitz for example was set up and run entirely by German dictator Adolf Hitler’s occupying forces from 1940 to 1945.

Huh? The Poles were not just forced into this by the Nazis. They were active participants, many of them gleeful and eager to murder Jews. To call these camps Polish is no “gaffe.” Poland DOES bear responsibility for the Nazi genocide of Jews.

It’s just fact. And it’s denial and fraud for Poland and others to argue otherwise.

Yes, there were a few righteous gentile Poles who saved Jews. A very tiny few. The majority were all too happy for the Judenrein, especially in the way it took place.

That was the real Poland during World War II. Anyone who says otherwise is a fraud.

And if you wonder why so many Jews are liberal and won’t vote Republican, BS, like the absurd denial that Nazi Death Camps were Polish, certainly doesn’t help in endearing Jews to the GOP.

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2,079 Responses

Some history lessons required, I suppose.

Adam on June 6, 2012 at 6:47 pm

Comparing Polish and Nazi Heraldic is a little bit strange and ignorant, Polish Heraldic was been used many hundred years before Germans turn back Swastika to national symbol. For secondary, Poland has a numerous resistance organisations, created by scouts, ex-soldiers ( for example: Armia Krajowa, Narodowe Si?y Zbrojne), judes (uprising in Warsaw Ghetto)or normal citizens.

Michal Piechowiak on June 6, 2012 at 6:49 pm

You’ve got tobee kidding me????? what are u writing???? total bullshit!!!!

Agnieszka on June 6, 2012 at 6:50 pm

WTC was american terrorist attack. That’s exactly this kind of insult to Pole. Get back to the playground and get a history lesson, because you REALLY need one. My great grandfather helped Jews, risked his life to help them during WWII and I won’t let you say that Polish murdered Jews because it is a filthy lie. This is the worst article I’ve EVER read in my whole life. It reminds me of Hitler’s or Stalin’s propaganda. This is the only comparison that I can make. You’re a real IGNORANT.

Krzysiek on June 6, 2012 at 6:51 pm

How bout’ you write a new article titled: Americans Were Complicit in Virtually wiping out the whole native population on their own continent? Accusing is easy, ain’t it?

Mike from Poland on June 6, 2012 at 6:52 pm

Dear Madam,

You’ve just written total bullshit. Congrats.

Regards,
Wac?aw

Wac?aw on June 6, 2012 at 6:53 pm

What i don’t like about jews is that they are so ungrateful

w4co on June 6, 2012 at 6:53 pm

@NormanF

Maybe you don’t know it, but in Poland before IIWW Polish, Jewish, Ukrainian, Belarussian and other nations lived together peacefully. There were Jewish districts in some Polish cities just like Chinese had their Chinatowns in American metropolies – but it wasn’t a rule. There wasn’t any Jewish ghettos in Poland before Nazi-Soviet invasion in 1939. First ghettos were build by Germans after fall of the Polish State.

The truth about Polish collaboration with Germans during WWII is that it never happened. Poland was the only country in entire Europe which was occupied by Germany and never established collaborationist government (French, Norwegians, and others did). Instead of that Poles established underground state in opposition to German occupation, run the strongest and the best organised resistance in entire Europe – about 380 000 soldiers in 1943. Polish underground state issued also sentences for traitors who cooperated with German occupant – the only possible sentece was death penalty. Nevertheless these underground organisations couldn’t exist without support of the entire nation. The spirit of fight against Germans was so widespread that even teens and kids wanted to kick them out from our home. For example: uncle of my father shoot german soldier when he was only 7 years old; look at little soldiers of Warsaw upraising – they have even their monument here in Warsaw.

Jewish weren’t the only people condemned by Germans for extinction. Jews, Poles, Gypsies, Czech, Russians, Belarussians were killed in Death Camps as well. And these camps were never run by Polish! The only reason why death camps were placed on Polish soil is that about 50% of Jewish population in Europe lived there. And as you know they didn’t leave Poland before the WWII while German Jews did.

Poland occupied by Germany was also the only country where helping Jewish people was prohibited under the threat of death. And once again you may be suprised of the fact that Poles saved more Jewish than any other European nation did – check the Yad Vashem Institute from Israel. As far as I remember Polish citizens were honoured more than 2500 times with the medal “Righteous among Nations”. But many heroes who helped Jewish famillies under the threat of being killed by Germans remain unknown.

You may heard a lot about so-called “Polish anti-semitism”, “Polish death camps” and Polish collaboration with Nazis. Consider it once again, becouse you might not heard everything that is worth to know. All we want is not to put on good front. We want only the truth – some disgraceful things like giving out Jewish to Germans also happened. But you should know that it wasn’t common among Polish people, and much more Poles fought agains Nazism and Communism, helped Jews and perished with them in death camps!

Adam on June 6, 2012 at 6:54 pm

Mr Hitler was a bad, because he was too soft for jews

k on June 6, 2012 at 6:55 pm

yea, she realy dont….

DebbieDoNotKnowNothing on June 6, 2012 at 6:57 pm

It is rude, primitive and stupid. The author is such a blonde she should become a stand up comedian.
PS: With this kind of german surname I am pretty sure a loving grandpa of an author was murdering polish citizens of jewish and polish ethnicality. So there is no surprise grand daughter is so much trying to clean his name and flush this dirt to somebody else…

Mark on June 6, 2012 at 6:59 pm

I can’t believe what you are writing here. Go back to school please… or maybe better use internet and read some articules before publishing anything.

You know nothing about Poland and our history. When we were dying in the streets fighting against nazist you were just watching war like TV show or something. You can’t imagine what was happening in my country so stop writing bullshit about Poland.

Back to school on June 6, 2012 at 7:00 pm

Get some history lessons, please. Than you are free to tell facts to the people, because you haven’t done your homework correctly. Seriously, you just don’t get it. Poles never were against Jews, additionally there was in fact a lot of people, who help Jews massively escape from holocaust camps. They risk their life and you are now telling that Poles are criminals? Please… In fact, being against Jews is shame in Poland. Actually a lot of victims of death camps was Poles’ friends, sometimes members of family, their partner (wife/husband). Take it on logic. Do you want your family and friends died? Of course no! So as long as you are ignorant and low-educated person, please, do not take any public appointment on this subject. This text was so pathetic.

Peter. on June 6, 2012 at 7:00 pm

i hope u go to hell for this bitch

fk off on June 6, 2012 at 7:01 pm

Is this some kind of provocation?
I do not believe, that anyone can be that stupid to write such things…
Just to sum up a few FACTS:
First of all, in 1939 Poland was invaded by Germany (a.k.a. the 3rd Reich) and was not a free country anymore. The legitimate government was evacuated abroad (first to France and then to UK) and later set up large conspirational structures with conspirational courts which chased any known case of collaboration with the Germans. There were some Poles, who blackmailed Jews, who were hiding from the Germans outside the gettos, to denounce them. However, such crimes were punished by the conspirational law with death. Therefore, one cannot say that POLAND is to blame for the holocaust.
Lets not forget the tousands of Poles who hid Jews from the Germans and those who were killed by the Germans because of that.
Moreover, Auschwitz-Birkenau was a huge compound consisting of Auschwitz, concentration camp for the Germany’s political enemies (mainly Poles, but also Gypsy and Soviets) were placed to work, and Birkenau – an extermination camp where mostly, but not only, Jews were put in gas chambers and afterwards cremated.

I keep wondering why these things are mixed up so easily? Maybe in a few years there will be people who will believe that it was Poland that started the WW2, not the Germany and that Poles killed more Jews than the Germans. I believe it is the plan of Germany’s propaganda to stop calling Germany the WWII initiator. It is worth mentioning that earlier it was said that the WWII was started by Hitler and “hitlerists”. The current version say that it was the “nazis” (whoever they are) and in the end who knows (the Soviets used the term “fascists” for this)…

Some kind of provocation? on June 6, 2012 at 7:03 pm

Stupid women without any hostorical knowlege. ZERO.

werfik on June 6, 2012 at 7:03 pm

ty jebana kurwo, p?o? razem z hitlerem w piekle

efff on June 6, 2012 at 7:04 pm

Fuck you ugly lying bitch.

spao on June 6, 2012 at 7:04 pm

Fuck you bitch!!!

paolowks on June 6, 2012 at 7:10 pm

You know, dear Ms. Szlusel, three of my Jewish friends called you are a hopeless idiot, the fourth one believes you are an utter moron. Personally, I disagree with them; I am convinced you are a paranoid schizophrenic and as such you should not be discriminated against or made fun of. Please, just get some help before it’s too late.

SwietnyLew on June 6, 2012 at 7:11 pm

bitch i hope you get ovaries cancer so you want make any more children that polute the earth, just die you would do a big favour to the world

daniel on June 6, 2012 at 7:12 pm

ty jebana szmato co, do rana mi ssa?a? go!

tydziwko on June 6, 2012 at 7:13 pm

Go back to school Debbie…

Members of Poland’s Jewish community — including the country’s Chief Rabbi Michael Schudrich — said in a statement that: “We expect President Barack Obama to personally correct his words.”

Marek Dzierzak on June 6, 2012 at 7:17 pm

i hope u go to hell for this bitch!!!!

szmato on June 6, 2012 at 7:17 pm

How dare anyone write such things about Country, which was one of the biggest victims of WWII!? Say it to my grandparents, who saw our Country burning, their families shooting and neighbours dying and who rebuilt our cities from nothing with their own hands – just say it them right in the face! I am destructed.

Magdalena on June 6, 2012 at 7:20 pm

I can’t believe it. It is a website of some totally ignorant “journalist” or it is a provocation of some kind.

nme on June 6, 2012 at 7:22 pm

Co to jest? Autor tego jest tak prymitywny ?e szok. Moim zdaniem powinna by? z tego gruba afera!

Pawe? on June 6, 2012 at 7:25 pm

Are u stupid or what? STFU ! go to school lamao

mike on June 6, 2012 at 7:27 pm

My Grandfather was fighting in Warsaw Rising in 1944 arm to arm with many Jewish people. People in that times saw things that you can’t even imagine in your warm, big house. They were fighting for their families, for their country, for honor. But most of all, you should be grateful them because these people become soldiers so you can write things like this. War destroys human mind, it’s so brutal that you can’t tell what you might done in situation where your kids are shooted one by one to force you to tell where Jewish people are hiding. And many of them – wich can be impossible to you – didn’t tell that. Now they are in heaven and they can’t fight for their rights, but we have to remember and respect them.
Poland was the only country in Europe where Jews were tolerated and respect. For example, in France(please, read about vishy government) and Germany people were thinking that Jews are dirty and has many deasease’s (like rats).
I could be writing forever arguments but the conclusion is simple: you are a typical blonde that speaks about things that you don’t know. You’re just dumb. You insult many great people who were and are smartest than you ever probably will be. I think you’re family which died in WWII feel ashamed for you.
At the end I can only recommend to you historical books by Norman Davies. There’s the truth.

Konrad on June 6, 2012 at 7:30 pm

Karny Kutas dla Pani publicystki. Ca?a Polska ?le Ci chuje. JAk mo?na by? tak nieinteligentnym i mówi? o historii Polski i II Wojnie ?wiatowej skoro w USA nie ucz? tego … Wystarczy zrobi? sonda? w?ród nastolatków i zapyta? si? czy wiedza gdzie le?y Polska…

Zero profesjonalizmu. Po prostu sko?czona “kobieta wyzwolona”.

Rzeczpospolita Polska (RP) on June 6, 2012 at 7:32 pm

she’s blonde…

KYZ on June 6, 2012 at 7:35 pm

LOL, Jason Alexander (Jewish) had already exposed your insanity on Howard Stern (Jewish), give it a rest Deb and stop spreading Anti-Semitism to push your agenda for personal gain. You are embarrassing all Jews.

SwietnyLew on June 6, 2012 at 7:46 pm

Idiot or just ill will?
1. For helping Jews – a bullet in the head.
2. Storing a Jews – a bullet in the head.
3.The issuing of the Jews (szmalcownictwo)- Polish underground state punished by death.
4. It the Polish state underground created Jewish resistance movement.

Tomasz on June 6, 2012 at 7:54 pm

Deb, The color of your blond hair has more truth in it…

SwietnyLew on June 6, 2012 at 7:55 pm

You are one arrogant and ignorant woman. I hope someone punches you in the head for the crap you publish. this is disgraceful.

DebbieLies on June 6, 2012 at 7:56 pm

My grandfather told me a story that during the second Total War it was some sport – killing Jews, especially Debbie Schlussel family. Each Sunday after mass they started race to kill Jews. Who killed the most won. Of course they had to ask Germans and other Nazis for permission and pay a lot of gold because it was mostly forbidden, but to get polish help in building camps for Jews from Germany, France, Italy and other western countries they often agreed. MISTAKE. ERROR. FALSE. It was completely different but who cares. A lot of Americans who are “good” educated only in american history and must firstly think where were “polish camps”: in Iraq or in RPA will believe in every lovely Debbie’s word. So I should also don;t care. But when I think that they weren’t Jews, they were Poles who were Jews and they were part of our nation- they were good friends of my family, they were good part of our community and they were killed by Germans and other Nazis I must say NO. Debbie schlussel- you are almost right, but maybe only 0,01% Poles took part in this dealings. I think, your next article will be about Jews who took part in building camps. Why? Who was working under coercion of Germans and Nazis- Poles and Jews from Poland and other countries. And don’t forget writing about Smok Wawelski. I don’t know why. Just because. Maybe because in your article are a lot of bizarre things.

Tyuril on June 6, 2012 at 7:57 pm

Who are you to tell? You are only a bitch to get some fame from your controvensial comments, get a life and start a honest job. Arer you really that desperate to get on the first pages of newspapers? When will the hatred end? All you want to do is start a war to draw attention from the real problems, its all in the big concerns that all of people to start a discussion like this, you attention whore! Get real people you are not free, concerns got you by the balls and its your duty to play nice or you will lose all you hold dear… I hope this world will burn in hell on december 21. I wish you all good luck and i hope i will meet my all real friends in heaven sooner or later!!

Tiger on June 6, 2012 at 7:57 pm

I would write you what I think about you and about your course for thinking, and also proved that what you are saying was ill lies dropped in your feather-brain, but as see I was already helped. so that hopefully of you… A ?eby ci?!

Dr.Natural on June 6, 2012 at 10:55 pm

eutru

yhjkhj on June 6, 2012 at 11:32 pm

To the Polish trolls:

For the record I agree with Debbie’s article, but that’s not my point. My point is that I want to know why you are doing what you are doing? What do you trolls think you are accomplishing by doing this?

I do know that you hate what Debbie wrote here–I get that. But as of this writing there are 1,987 comments–with this comment that I’m typing to make #1,988. Within the first 209 comments and the first page, part of the second page, and part of this page, we had a good discussion going. But then on Monday the comments jumped up to 1,002 comments. I scanned those 800 comments, with some responding substantively to what Debbie wrote while others just call Debbie names. The result is that the second group drowns the first group out. Now as I’ve said we are now at 1,984 comments and counting and as for those 900+ comments, I haven’t even bothered reading them except for what are currently on this page. And it’s not just me–even someone who doesn’t have a life doesn’t have time to read the comments–let alone someone who does. Now one thing that all of you have in common is that none of you like Debbie having said here that the Poles were accomplishes with the Nazis in the Holocaust. Beyond that the comments are divided into the following groups:

1) Respond to the article by saying that the Poles were victims too, and helped the Jews out as well.

2) Calling Debbie names without adding anything substantive at all.

3) Respond to the article with anti-Semitic comments/propaganda.

Okay, and so what is this supposed to accomplish? Is it to try to convince either Debbie and/or her regular readers that she is wrong in what she wrote? If so, well then, those in the second group need to go away because you guys will never accomplish this with that tatic. If anything, you will only convince people that she is right. To the people in the third group, you are even worse than the second group. The reason is that given that Debbie has charged that the Poles collaborated with the Nazis in the Holocaust, responding to this by making anti-Semitic propaganda are making Debbie’s point for her, because anyone who is capable of making anti-Semitic comments is also capable/would have been capable of collaborating with the Nazis.

As for the first group, here is your chance to show whether or not you really want to prove that you are serious in arguing that as many or more Poles helped the Jews out than collaborated with the Nazis in the Holocaust. Condemn the people in the other two groups as they are underming your efforts. Call upon Debbie to delete the comments from each of the other two groups in order to leave your your comments so that someone can give you an intelligent response. Otherwise, you are no better than the other two groups and would also be adding evidence that Debbie is correct.

Or is your objective is not to convince anyone of anything, but instead is to shut Debbie’s website down for her daring to hurt your tender feelings? This evidenced by some comments that calls Debbie a “troll” on her own website(!) You guys don’t know what a troll is. An owner of a blog/website by definition can’t be a troll. A troll is someone who visits a website that they don’t like and makes a comment only for the purpose of generating a reaction without adding anything to the discussion. In any case, you will fail in your objective as there is nothing that you can do about this website. But you are succeeding in making a$$es of yourselves–well, that’s assuming that you even get noticed.

JeffE on June 6, 2012 at 11:39 pm

Debbie’s grandpa died in one of those camps.

He was drunk and fell off the watchtower.

kafka on June 7, 2012 at 12:27 am

Just little more historical fact: in nowadays jews try to act as if they had a trademark on the word concentration camp or holocaust..
You are generating bare money from it, by making people believe that only Jews were killed in these camps… plz don’t forget to mention all the other nations that died in these camps. And if you would know a little about history, you should know that also polish ppl died in a large amount in these camps.
Many comments on this site state you a dumb person – I don’t agree:
I accuse you in intentionally telling lies to make a country bleed for things it had never done, people who were risking their life’s to safe even your shitty ancestors who now are spreading lies not giving a fuck on history.

Just one more question: what do you say about the Jews that worked for the 3rd Reich to save their asses? And its proven that also these people had existed, how do you call them?

You are just disgusting…

tourist on June 7, 2012 at 1:22 am

Just now I read an interesting stoy about how it was Poland who started II World War attacing USRR and Germany, how present Russia is still an empire and Germany and England have it worse then it was in USRR. But you know what? The Autor had a decency to call it a FICTION!
The text above has about the same amount of facts that that story but said author is famous for his fantasy books and you are just displaying your incredible ignorance. I suggest you read more (or more likely start reading at all) about Jews in Poland during 2WW and THEN start writing about it. Or just maybe switch to conspiracy novels? I have a feeling you have a natural talent for it… But sure as hell you’re not fit to be a journalist if you can’t separate your sick imagination from truth.
And I believe you owe Poland a big fat apology. Poles were exterminated by Germans too, Poles wee hiding Jewes oftenly paying for it with their own lives, polish underground army assisted Jews in Warsaw ghetto uprising… For what I know Jews owe a lot more to Poles then Poles could ever owe to Jews. And I’m sorry about what happened to your family but not only you lost someone then, my grandfathers family was killed in Auschwitz too and you don’t see me going to press bitching about how the mean Jews surely killed them. JEWS WEREN’T THE ONLY ONES, POLES WERE KILLED THEN TOO – YOU DON’T GET TO PIN IT DOWN ON US!

Sael on June 7, 2012 at 1:35 am

Omg,,, you are so stupid. Go to school.

Poland.

Marcin Kesalaz on June 7, 2012 at 12:38 pm

67 years have passed, and this is the kind of gratefulness we get for helping in such grave moments in history.

In every nation you’ll find good and bad people and you know it! Are all Jews noble, wonderful and truthful – No (hello!). Were all Poles noble at that time? No. but how dare you judge us all based on the few that obviously weren’t true patriots?
You probably think all Germans were Nazis during the war including Einstein – which is not true and I hope you know it.
Have you not had history lessons at school? I suggest you do a little reading – actually I suggest reading a lot more historical books before writing “gems” like this one.

It’s a pity that some people try from time to time to bend history for their personal benefits but the history defends itself very well against that.

Have a nice day.

polishpatriot on June 7, 2012 at 12:59 pm

Go back to school.

Greg on June 7, 2012 at 1:48 pm

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