April 6, 2009, - 11:56 am

Obama to Muslim Turkey: America is NOT a “Christian Nation”; Forgets Turkish History and Current Developments; But Statements No More Pandering Than Bush’s

By Debbie Schlussel
**** SCROLL DOWN FOR UPDATE ****
Hmmm . . . I guess Christmas and New Year’s Day should be crossed off the federal holiday schedule.
After all, according to the speech Barack Hussein Obama (and he’s now using the middle name in Europe–you know, the one we weren’t allowed to use) gave in Islamic Turkey, America isn’t a Christian nation, anymore.

Obama said “one of the great strengths of the United States” is that it does not consider itself “a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation. We consider ourselves a nation of citizens who are bound by ideals and a set of values. I think modern Turkey was founded with a similar set of principles.”

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Although Muslim Mustafa Kemal Ataturk made Turkey far more secular than the Islamic Ottoman Empire whence it came, it’s a Muslim country. There’s a reason the Turkish flag is emblazoned with a giant crescent over a smaller star–the symbol of Islam. And it’s getting more and more so, as Islamists continue to overtake it.
So, it’s ironic that as Obama claims we are no longer a Christian nation, he compares us to one that is fast returning to an Islamic caliphate.
And Obama contradicted himself. On the one hand, he described Turkey as “a predominantly Muslim nation” and America as “a predominantly Christian nation.” Then, he went on to say that America is not a Christian nation and that Turkey is, somehow–as it moves to more and more radicalism–a secular nation that is “a Western nation.” PUH-LEEZE. Turkey is moving ever away from the West as fast as it can.
For a Harvard grad, Barack Obama sure is an ignoramus. And a dangerous ignoramus at that.
**** UPDATE: A number of readers and other conservatives are upset with Barack Hussein Obama for saying, “We are not at war with Islam,” and making other pandering statements to the Islamic world.
Yup, the statements are disgusting. But you know what? They were just as disgusting–no, more so–for the last eight years when Republican President George W. Bush said them, even after Muslims murdered 3,000 Americans on U.S. soil. And when Presidential candidate George W. Bush said these statements as he outpandered then-candidate Al Gore to get the Islamic nod from extremist Muslim groups in Dearbornistan, made up of open Hezbollah and HAMAS supporters.
And where were all of you then? Where were you, indeed.
Of course, we are at war with Islam. But more importantly, Islam is at war with us. It has always been at war with us. For centuries. And it always will be.
And until one of our leaders recognizes that–and a Republican President and now a Democrat fail to see this–we are doomed. And then, we will be doomed anyway. Because it is already too late.
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Barack Obama Panders to Islam with Turkish PM Tayyip Erdogan

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21 Responses

Indeed, we will be doomed anyway.
And the reason is that the American people is one of the dumbest people on earth.
Especially the voters who -in their majority- are shallow, ignorant and idiots.
On the other hand, the douche bags of Washington D.C. don’t give a damn about America.
And why should they?
They just want power and to have and keep power, they do whatever it takes to please the idiots who selected them. And it doesn’t matter if their decisions are patriotic or not.
So you got idiots pleasing idiots.
If we really care and love America, we would have learned from others’ mistakes, like of Europe’s for example.
But no, as I said, we are a nation of morons who -no surprise- are destined to self-destruction.
We chose to please the idiot voters, the world and the terrorists.
This is the fate and the path we chose, even our enemies couldn’t dream of a better way to destroy us.

Independent Conservative on April 6, 2009 at 12:46 pm

ìFor a Harvard grad, Barack Obama sure is an ignoramus. And a dangerous ignoramus at that.î
I agree. Iím amazed at how many people continue to tout Obamaís intelligence and eloquence. He has ALWAYS struck me as a dunce. I also find it amazing how many people are still not aware of how dangerous this president is to America.

Rocky on April 6, 2009 at 12:47 pm

Has anyone done any research on what the Founding Fathers thought about islam? From the little bit I found, it looked as though they were dumb about this from the beginning.
[R: ACTUALLY, THEY SAW MUSLIMS FOR THE BARBARIAN PIRATE SAVAGES THAT THEY WERE FORCED TO ENCOUNTER. OH, AND ALSO SLAVE TRADERS. DS]

rickster on April 6, 2009 at 12:56 pm

Re: About Harvard Grad Obama.
He got his undergraduate degree at Columbia the same place as Meghan McCain. ‘Nuff said. I used to be in awe of Ivy League grads. After the past decade with GWBush, Obama, and Wall Street so called “geniuses”, I no longer look with that group with distinction. More or less just well placed children from wealthy families. Granted there are smart people there but there is no guarantee that degree produces talent.
KING HUSSEIN COBRAMA is just a snake-charming scumbag who has yet to be tested and wants to disarm America while letting Islam get nukes.

californiascreaming on April 6, 2009 at 1:12 pm

Rickster, on the contrary!
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%2Bislam+%2B%22founding+fathers%22
Suggested reading:
Victory in Tripoli: How America’s War with the Barbary Pirates Established the U.S. Navy and Shaped a Nation, by Joshua E. London
http://www.amazon.com/Victory-Tripoli-Americas-Barbary-Established/dp/0471444154/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1239038255&sr=8-1

Shy Guy on April 6, 2009 at 1:18 pm

A Black Muslim “politician” who hates Christianity, and who ,not-so-secretly,hates America – WHO KNEW? Us Right-Wing so-called “paranoids”,that’s who, the one who have NOT been fooled by this TRAITOR these last 4 years.

OldSchoolW on April 6, 2009 at 1:23 pm

[Of course, we are at war with Islam. But more importantly, Islam is at war with us.]
The problem is that only the second sentence is correct. Islam is at war with us. Unfortunately, and we will wind up paying a very heavy price for this, the fact is that we are not at war with Islam.
Rickster commented and Debbie responded about the founding fathers and Islam. I recommend everyone read this link (or even better Google “Barbary Pirates”). I would paste the entry here but it is way too long:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War

i_am_me on April 6, 2009 at 2:18 pm

Obama has diferent speeches for diferent people. To the Jews he says one thing. TO the “christians” he says another. To his muslim masters he says another. Jimmy Carter must be laughing so hard and thinking “Whew! In four years no one will remember how awful I was!”

Mats on April 6, 2009 at 2:43 pm

Two little salient facts for Deb and her audience of “If I can’t find it within 20 seconds on Wikipedia or Lexus/Nexus, it’s not worth searching for” crowd, I’ll take your Pepsi Challenge.
First, Debbie, you don’t have to be Juan Cole (waiting for you to reflexively dismiss the name on sight) to know that Ataturk was NOT a Muslim. Both Lord Kinross and Andrew Mango indicate that the man was an agnostic, if not an atheist. As a matter of fact, Garrett Ward Shelton wrote a book a few years ago that directly COMPARES Thomas Jefferson with Ataturk.
Second, as you know, Israel considers Turkey to be its “only” friend in the Middle East, I would venture partially due to them both possessing a cultural superiority-complex over Arabs. Oh, put those must be those self-loathing non-Jew Jews, right?
Truth is Debbie-your blog is hardly a matter of informed opinion, but reads like something out of Der Stuermer, only directed at a different descendent of Shem.
[SS: HATE TO BREAK IT TO YOU, BUT ATATURK WAS ALWAYS A MUSLIM. HE MAY NOT HAVE BELIEVED IN RELIGION AND MAY HAVE BEEN SECULAR, BUT HE WAS A MUSLIM. THAT SAID, HE WAS THE GOOD KIND, THE SECULAR KIND WHO TRIED TO THROW HIS COUNTRY OFF THE EVIL PATH OF A CALIPHATE.
REALITY CHECK: ISRAEL CONSIDERED TURKEY TO BE ITS FRIEND, PAST TENSE. LOOK AT RECENT NEWS EVENTS. THE HONEYMOON IS OVER.
OH, AND ONE OTHER THING/NEWSFLASH: WIKIPEDIA AIN’T THE MOST RELIABLE SOURCE ON THE PLANET. DS]

seersagesavant on April 6, 2009 at 3:13 pm

P.S. In reference to the “Savage Barbarians” listed above by Dear Ole Deb. I thought that some of this lemming lot might like to see THIS:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan-American_Treaty_of_Friendship
Since most of Debbie’s partisans like their info in small, easy-to-chew bites, it’s okay, it’s Wikipedia.

seersagesavant on April 6, 2009 at 3:33 pm

Sigh, I am so sick of politicians-I just want to scream at them

mindy1 on April 6, 2009 at 4:10 pm

The salient point being “Turkey is moving ever away from the West as fast as it can.”
SeerSageSavant: Here are a few for you that are not small bites from Wikipedia (p.s. – just how big does your ego need to be to dub yourself a seer, a sage and/or a savant?)
Dixon, Jeffrey C. British Journal of Sociology; Dec2008, Vol. 59 Issue 4, p681-708, 28p
“I find that people in Turkey support democracy to the same extent as people in EU member and candidate states, but people in Turkey are more supportive of religious and authoritarian rule and are less tolerant of minorities.”
Donmez, Rasim Ozgur. Totalitarian Movements & Political Religions; Dec2008, Vol. 9 Issue 4, p551-573, 23p
“Turkey has witnessed a mushrooming of ultranationalist vigilante organisations in the public sphere in the early twenty-first century, which promotes a view of the relation of Islam to the state and ethnic nation distinct from that of Islamicist groups. Such organisations can be seen as totalitarian movements whose tactics of terrorising society in order to take over the state are reminiscent of the paramilitarism of the Weimer Republic. The aim of this study is to understand why and how these ultranationalist groups have emerged. It analyses the discourses and actions of the principal groups, and argues that the U.S. military intervention in Iraq, coinciding with the accession process to the EU and the election victory of the Justice and Development Party (AKP), has undermined the hegemony of the state elite and nationalist circles in the political and economic spheres. The increased visibility of Kurdish nationalists in the public sphere, the spate of terrorist attacks by the Kurdish separatist PKK, and the AKP’s strict neo-liberal policies, profoundly unacceptable to the state elite and nationalist circles, have created an ideal habitat for the emergence of such vigilante organisations, which have a strong tradition in the history of modern Turkey.”
Shively, Kim. Anthropological Quarterly; Summer2008, Vol. 81 Issue 3, p683-711, 29p
“In the Turkish case, this dichotomization most obviously acts to polarize the political field, to create a good “us” vs. a bad ” them.” By homogenizing and objectifying ” Islamism” to include anyone that objects to the state’s definition of religion, the Kemalist establishment solidifies its own political position as protectors of the modern laicist state. These guardians–especially the military and the judicial system–can then act as the deployers of legitimate violence against the so-called threats posed by this ” Islamist” monolith.
For pious Muslims the Turkish state’s conception of religion as essentially cognitive, private, and pushed into the shadowy “corners” of society is in direct opposition to Muslim history and belief. For them, the Turkish Kemalist establishment has bought into imperialist doctrine, thereby jettisoning genuine Islam in the name of modernity. Many pious Muslims who see themselves as the true practitioners reject Turkish doctrine that violates their understandings of religion, and they break Turkish state law in order to fulfill the laws of God. Women wear the headscarf in public institutions or people establish unauthorized Koran courses in their neighborhoods. They attempt to bring their understanding of religion out of the hidden corners of society to make space for themselves in the public sphere.”

Kalifornia Kafir on April 6, 2009 at 4:21 pm

@Kalifornia Kafir-Dixon and Donmez are both obliquely speaking of Pan-Turanianism, or revanchist Turkish Nationalism, i.e. The “Grey Wolves.” They are NATIONALIST or “Volkisch” if you want to make the 3rd Reich connection. They are most decidedly non-islamist any more that the Nazi party reflected state-sponsored “positive Christianity.”
Oh, and I didn’t realize Debbie’s ” ATATURK WAS ALWAYS A MUSLIM. HE MAY NOT HAVE BELIEVED IN RELIGION AND MAY HAVE BEEN SECULAR, BUT HE WAS A MUSLIM” is some of the most ludicrous crap I’ve ever heard. Was Benjamin Disraeli still a Jew after he converted? The notion that religion is “blood deep” and encoded sounds like something from Houston Stewart Chamberlain.
Props though, somebody at least brought some citations to their argument, for once. However tangentially related it was.

seersagesavant on April 6, 2009 at 4:42 pm

No need to worry, Fareed Zakaria, one of Obama’s favorite authors, assures us on CNN that being Muslim is “incidental” to the identity of the Turks. The world views Turkey as a Muslim country, Zakaria says, while Turks see their country as a modern democracy.
It is impossible that the editor of Newsweek doesn’t know that Turkey elected an Islamist government that has been actively chipping away at secular life in Turkey.
That means that Zakaria is another Muslim deceiver, more dangerous to Americans that the guys with the beards and the guns, because of his moderate demeanor and purported expertise on the Muslim world, people in power look to him for information about Islamic issues.

4infidels on April 6, 2009 at 10:50 pm

Debbie is right. By Muslim standards Ataturk was a civilized man. That isn’t true of the Muslim World today. He wanted a tolerant, enlightened and advanced country. To do that, he had to abolish the Caliphate, exile the Sultan and introduce the Latin alphabet, Western dress and European culture to Turkey. And he separated Islam from the state. All of those reforms are being undone by his Islamist successors. Islam is not compatible with freedom or tolerance. And the Turks will realize that too late. The moron Obama doesn’t really understand what Islam is all about.

NormanF on April 6, 2009 at 10:56 pm

I think you are a little flip with the remark that Bush said the same thing. Bush meant that we could live with the “Religion” of islam and the peaceful people who practised it. But to say that Obama’s message was the same is Bush’s is naieve or disingenuous at best. Obama stated that he was one of them in more ways than one and only an agenda driven person would equate the two statements.

Rudy Yarbrough on April 6, 2009 at 11:31 pm

Was Benjamin Disraeli still a Jew after he converted?
Posted by: seersagesavant at April 6, 2009 04:42 PM
=================================================
According to Jewish law, yes. Absolutely.
What’s the matter? It didn’t say so on Wikipedia so you assumed it couldn’t be?

Shy Guy on April 7, 2009 at 2:35 am

-@Shy Guy
Apparently, the idea of a rhetorical question is foreign to you (or sarcasm for that matter.)
Let’s make this country simple: is someone a member of a religion “simply” and “forever and anon” just because they were born into it. As theologically and anthropologically defined, religion is a “belief” system, when one no longer “believes,” ergo, they can no longer be considered to be an adherent of that system. For example, in the Shinto religion, the Japanese are a type of “chosen people” who were made in the primordial ooze of the young Earth. (No, that’s not Wikipedia, that’s Fr. John Saliba, one of my Jesuit profs) So, when a Japanese either became Buddhist or Christian after the Portugese, regardless of “Shinto law,” they were no longer Shinto.

seersagesavant on April 7, 2009 at 12:18 pm

Judaism is not Shintoism. If you didn’t like my prior answer, lump it.

Shy Guy on April 7, 2009 at 3:36 pm

Obama said. “The United States has been enriched by Muslim Americans. Many other Americans have Muslims in their family, or have lived in a Muslim-majority country — I know, because I am one of them.”
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/04/06/obama-arrives-turkey-strengthen-ties/

Johnny V on April 8, 2009 at 6:53 pm

Christians are always at war with Muslims, read scripture from the Bible, people. Who do you think the Babylonians are? What concerns me is Obama is answering his fate for the end for not stating HIS personal faith. I can understand him not wanting to offend other religious beliefs, I can. However, you CANNOT please everyone and at some point a choice has to be made. JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY!

Tina on August 3, 2010 at 4:36 pm

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