December 14, 2012, - 4:17 pm

On the CT School Shooting: Just Remember, Israeli Schools Are Protected With GUNS

By Debbie Schlussel

Many readers and friends have asked my reaction to today’s shooting and murder of 26 people (including 20 children who were students) at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut. My first response is sorrow and condolences for the families of the victims. My second response is: how long will it take for gun-grabbing opportunists to predictably step on these shattered lives and call for more gun control? And the answer to that is the usual–not long at all.

sandyhookelementary

guncontrol
How Many Sandy Hook Elementary School Kids Might Have Been Saved If A Teacher Had a Gun?

A Michigan law that is working its way through the legislature to allow Concealed Pistol License (CPL) holders to bring guns into schools (with a few hours of additional training by the CPL holder) may now be held up because gun-grabbers will use this tragic incident as an argument against it. And, essentially, they will compare innocent, law-abiding, trained gun owners to this crazy person who shot up the kids today.

But schools need more guns in the hands of law-abiding adults, not less. In Israel, there are armed security guards at schools. And despite the fact that Israel is surrounded by those who would destroy it, despite the fact that there are rocket and other terrorist attacks against Israelis every single day, the kids at Israeli schools are very safe. The only times when they’ve been killed is when there were no guns around, as with the Merkaz HaRav Yeshivah, where students were shot up and murdered by two Islamic terrorists in 2008. (They were finally stopped by guns.)

In fact, because schools are guarded by armed guards in Israel, students at schools there have a much greater chance of being attacked and/or killed in a bus bomb on the way to or from school than when they are in their classrooms. And while in their classrooms, the greatest threat is a HAMAS rocket, not a crazy armed gunman like the one at Sandy Hook Elementary today.


Despite that, those of us who support a strong Second Amendment and the right to keep and bear arms are constantly mocked by the left, especially those on the left who live in gated communities and have fancy alarm systems, armed bodyguards, and other security. They mock people like Rep. Frank Lasee of Wisconsin who, in 2006, introduced legislation in Wisconsin to arm teachers.

“To make our schools safe for our students to learn, all options should be on the table,” he said. “Israel and Thailand have well-trained teachers carrying weapons and keeping their children safe from harm. It can work in Wisconsin.”

In Thailand, where officials have been waging a bloody fight with Muslim separatists for the last two years, some teachers carry weapons for self defense as they are viewed as part of the government. In Israel, teachers are not allowed to carry weapons in the school, but security guards at the entrances are armed.

The fact remains that law abiding citizens with guns stop malefactors with guns, unless, as with today’s shooter, the gunman commits suicide. Remember how Islamic terrorist Nidal Malik Hasan was stopped from taking more than 13 lives at Fort Hood? Others with guns on the base shot him. How many lives might have been saved today if a teacher had a gun? How many lives might have been saved at Virginia Tech because a student had a gun?

As I’ve noted before on this site, my late grandfather, Isaac Engel, a Holocaust survivor, owned a gun and concealed and carried it illegally to work to protect himself, because–in those days–only powerful and connected people were legally granted conceal and carry permits. But he needed a gun to survive at his business, which was located in a bad neighborhood near Detroit. Pulling out his gun when he was confronted by criminals saved his life several times, and he recounted to me how Jews were not allowed to own guns in Nazi Europe (and in many other places). Both he and my father told me about the many Jewish partisans who killed Nazis and saved Jewish lives because they stole guns and used them (just as in the movie, “Defiance” (read my review)). He felt that owning and carrying around a gun was not only a way to protect himself and provide for his family, but also a giant “F- You” to the Nazis and others who kept him from doing so and had wiped out most of his family (and tried but failed to wipe him out).

The best gun control is to have a gun. It’s the only thing that will stop someone else from killing you.

If you want to infringe upon my Second Amendment rights, it means you want to take my First and latter Amendment rights, too.

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164 Responses

I agree with you. It would also be good to requite gun owners to periodically certify their ability to use their fire arm. Some people still think that practicing and weapon cleaning are optional aspects of gun ownership.

I am certain that many of these monsters depend upon their victims being unarmed or otherwise helpless. The mall and school shooters might not have been as excited about appoaching such targets if there were some actual deterrent. I doubt that their fantasies included being dropped by a vigilant mall guard or taacher before they could do too much harm. These shooters are uliimately cowards. Their choice of victims demonstrates that.

Worry01 on December 14, 2012 at 5:39 pm

    Its none of your business to determine if I am qualified to use my firearm. A right guaranteed in the Constitution is all I need.

    FrenchKiss on December 14, 2012 at 6:49 pm

      For one thing, was I talking to you? Also, do you advocate poor firearm maintenance and little or no training? That is a good way to get a misfire and/or hit an innocent bystander. The police are not going to accept the “its none of your business” response if the shooter just fires wildly. A firearm is no protection if you cannot use it properly. Finally, I can say what I wish as long as it meets the website guidelines established by the site owner.

      Worry01 on December 14, 2012 at 9:27 pm

      Actually, it is my business and concern should you have a pistol that you carry in public. You could be one of those who gets a license, gets a gun, and think you are safe and protected, thinking that your 200 rounds a year at the range shooting a paper target make you (and me) safe. I don’t want to be on the other side of the criminal in public when you are threatened and decide to shoot the attacker, you will lose 50% of your motor skills right off the bat, and if you are not as good a shot as you think you are, you may end up killing me or a loved one or some other innocent bystander.

      People who carry pistols should be required to quarterly qualifying via IDPA or ISPA competitions along with some basic knowledge of laws and the consequences of brandishing, and using the firearm to defend oneself.

      Paul Patrioto on December 15, 2012 at 2:25 pm

        “People who carry pistols should be required to quarterly qualifying via IDPA or ISPA competitions along with some basic knowledge of laws and the consequences of brandishing, and using the firearm to defend oneself.”

        -Paul the Patriot

        Um, Paul, liberals such as yourself should be required to defend their blather quarterly on this site. If they fail to convince, they should be denied their First Amendment rights. Agree?

        skzion on December 15, 2012 at 8:28 pm

      FrenchK-

      Its none of your business to determine if I am qualified to use my firearm. A right guaranteed in the Constitution is all I need.

      You can, by your actions, forfeit a right. I see no reason that rights guaranteed by the second amendment should be immune from that general rule.

      Larry S. on December 16, 2012 at 10:42 am

    Only guns stop guns. The bigger tragedy is the potential failure of legislation permitting trained armed persons on campus. I would add that El Al arms her pilots so there aren’t hijackings, too.

    I have a sinking feeling that Nidal Malik Hasan is getting off. They are working the case, the NOBAMA crowd is looking for a way to let off… I am sick.

    As goes ... on December 14, 2012 at 11:31 pm

I’m sad this happened again. It’s so heartbreaking. Just when you think it can’t get worse,it does.

Ghostwriter on December 14, 2012 at 5:40 pm

The left-wing teachers unions have a lot of responsibility for these situations. Of course teachers are very threatened by the disintegration of schools and the student population. But their unions support the Democrats and oppose the Second Amendment. They are not serving their members very well, nor are they helping the students they claim to be so concerned about.

Little Al on December 14, 2012 at 6:02 pm

I am waiting for someone in MSM to blame either the Tea Party or Rush Limbaugh.

jm on December 14, 2012 at 6:12 pm

As I think Charleston Heston once put it, ‘Without the Second Amendment, there is no way one could protect the First’

Infidel on December 14, 2012 at 6:24 pm

    Yes, and without excersizing the 1st Amendment, via speaking out towards legislators, senators, congress, government, etc. we will most assuredly lose our 2nd Amendment.

    Liberty loving Americans need to start turning off American idol, and reduce texting time, and get more involved in legislation to protect what freedoms we still have by sending a loud and clear message to our “leaders” that the Constituiton IS still relevant and needs to be protected and defended.

    Paul Patrioto on December 15, 2012 at 2:50 pm

Every school in America should be required to create a security plan. Metal detectors. Bullet proof glass. At least one armed employee on staff. Locked doors. Cameras.

Question: how did a psychopath acquire all those guns? Isn’t mental illness part of the background check? Or is that a HIPAA violation?

adam on December 14, 2012 at 6:32 pm

    If you can believe the news media on this story, he stole them from the registered owner-his late Mother. Late, because he killed her.

    JeffT on December 14, 2012 at 9:52 pm

    They were his mother’s guns and she had legal permits to carry them even tho she knew her son was severely disturbed. This is the first mass murder I can remember where the neighbors and friends all said that the kid was “weird” and seriously disturbed. They are blaming Asperger’s for his unnatural insensitivity to physical pain and while that is a symptom, it is also a symptom of psychopathy.
    Why on earth does a mother who knows her son is disturbed get permits for TWO high power weapons and then not only leave them where he can find them but there are reports that she took him to the range and taught him to shoot!!!!!!!!!!

    Italkit on December 15, 2012 at 11:59 am

      Now THAT is an interesting question, Italkit.

      skzion on December 15, 2012 at 1:52 pm

I cannot fathom the horror of this situation being experienced by parents, the surviving children, law enforcement, teachers, and so many more, BUT before those who are in authority begin a process that, in the future, will create a future of increased exposure to mass murderers no matter who they may be, PLEASE READ AND RATIONALLY THINK.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/episodes/beslan-seige-of-school-1/introduction/246/

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/chechnya-beslan.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/beslan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csr9TPGPoxs

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18559_162-668127.html

To all…please offer a prayer, a good thought, a rational perspective, and much empathy for those directly affected by this unspeakable action of mindless slaughter…G*d help them.

Dennis

Dennis on December 14, 2012 at 6:36 pm

If you want better gun control…use two hands.

ebayer on December 14, 2012 at 6:44 pm

Those were my thoughts exactly, Debbie. In Israel, the shooter would have been taken out before he was able to kill 27 people.

Karen on December 14, 2012 at 6:47 pm

    Israel has extremely strict gun-control laws. Members of the military are exempt, of course. Then again, most people in Israel have been in the military–so they know and fully understand the reason to use guns.

    Jerry on December 15, 2012 at 12:46 pm

Free men own guns. Slaves do not.
An armed society is a polite society.
Jews with guns will never be put in ovens.

FrenchKiss on December 14, 2012 at 6:51 pm

I’ve said it a few times when discussing security – the U.S. could learn a lot from the Israeli’s.

Road Warrior on December 14, 2012 at 7:10 pm

Thank you very much! Gun owners cannot be held liable for some psycho who wants to shoot up a school or mall. The Second Amendment was established to protect us, and we cannot let the leftists take it away so they can destroy us.

Mark E. on December 14, 2012 at 7:17 pm

Have you ever noticed that there are never any of these shooting rampages at gun and rifle ranges?

Jarhead on December 14, 2012 at 7:24 pm

The “gun free zones” Congress imposed upon schools killed those kids in CT.

Law-abiding people are not allowed to carry a concealed weapon within 300 feet of a school – to protect themselves or others.

But sociopaths and criminals have never been and will never be deterred by ANY law to commit mass murder. An armed society is a free society – and a polite one.

The government has no business disarming our families when it cannot protect our kids from being slaughtered by the bad guys. I should be able to enter my school armed so I can be able to protect myself and others when the police won’t always be around to catch the bad guys.

Its only common sense – sadly lacking in America these days.

NormanF on December 14, 2012 at 7:38 pm

This atrocity has exploded on Twitter. And man, it’s bringing out the maudlin fakers and the low-information Liberal know-nothings in spades. It’s making me sick…I can barely stand it.

Bonzer W., are you here? And if so you can also attest to the dopiness. I follow a few celebs (and of course most if not all are Liberal know-nothings) and I have some from Australia crapping on how they hope the NRA will “wake up”. It’s a test of my patience. First off, the monster was NOT old enough to own a fire arm and I doubt he was a NRA member. Then you have slimy Limey Poms like Piers Morgan (who I do NOT follow) screaming about USA gun control. The monster was NOT licensed to own a fire arm and he massacred many innocents who also were not armed. But in LiberalLand the bete noire is not enough gun control.

And really, it’s getting out of hand how many ignorant dumb so-called Conservatives there are on twitter. I am getting sick of them being so dumb. My breaking point is when the so-called Conservatives are bleating about how sincere the Obama-Putin fake cry was. Really? After 4 arduous years of his machinations? We are in DEEP, fried sh**.

We gotta wake up and fight these cretins on their level. The last thing I wanna do is politicize this atrocity but if we don’t fight back against the know-nothing Libs we are gonna get steam-rolled by their duplicitous propaganda and grandstanding. We have to fight these idiot usurpers more brutally than they do. It’s getting pathetic!!!

Worry, I like your NEW avatar!

Skunky on December 14, 2012 at 8:21 pm

    Skunky,

    I loved your post. Much like Debbie you have a way of breaking it down. Losers like Pier Morgan and Andrea Mitchel just don’t get it. It also figures that so-called conservatives actually thought that Odumbo’s fake tears were genuine. What a bunch of retards.

    Ken b on December 14, 2012 at 10:33 pm

      Thank you Ken B & right back @ ya. I can always count on the truth and a hearty laugh from your posts.

      Thank goodness that DS is more manly (in her stances) than wimpyfied American men these days. We’d be so lost if not for the few strong voices of truth.

      That orange, cry-baby, bar-borned Boehner is NOT doing a Republican response tomorrow to Obama-Putin’s maudlin, lie-crammed (un)Presidential radio address. I do NOT see that as “classy”. I see it as dumb, dopey & retarded AND LOSING!

      ANYONE who doesn’t think Obama-Putin is NOT gonna run (like he stole something) with this political football is on queerstreet! I am thoroughly disgusted by not only the wussiness of the GOP but their out-right prostration to the evil Donks. It’s unbelievable to me!!

      Hey men of America, grow an effing quartet! You’re gonna need TWO SETS because Democratic duplicity is winning ugly these days at you’re letting it happen!!!

      Skunky on December 14, 2012 at 10:47 pm

    All of the anti gun liberals are packing heat. Or, they have armed security.

    Hypocrites!!

    As goes... So goes... on December 14, 2012 at 11:38 pm

    You would be correct about Obama’s fake “crocodile tears” over this rampage. He is a certified sociopath with no real empathy over individuals, no remorse, no scruples, and essentially no morals, with an “ends justify the means” mentality. (On that front, those that advocate the GOP wimps capitulate to him over the “fiscal cliff” issue would be actually emboldening him to go even further the next time in his base extremism, as this is no ordinary politician whatsoever, but someone far worse – one wonders, if he weren’t President, whether he would commit something as dastardly as, if not more so than, the psycho who murdered those innocent children.)

    ConcernedPatriot on December 15, 2012 at 2:04 am

      Thank You CP. You’re seeing it exactly CORRECT.

      When some know-nothing “Conservative” tweeted that he thought those croc tears were genuine I tweeted that the fake tears where Obama-Putin’s tears of joy…because he knows he now has fresh ground to do what he can to usurp our 2nd Amendment rights. AND he will!!

      It’s pretty sad when we have to tell so-called “Conservatives” to pull their shorts up during this dark time. The Donks are cretins and will use an atrocity to gain political ground. It’s time for REAL Conservatives to man up (grow a quartet) and fight for what is right and fight these idiot totalitarians tooth & nail!

      Skunky on December 15, 2012 at 10:03 am

      Never let a crisis go to waste.

      skzion on December 15, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    Worry, you’re not trying to tell us anything with that avatar, are you?

    skzion on December 15, 2012 at 10:02 am

There is a portion of the population, a growing portion thanks to government-schooling, that honestly think gun-control legislation will solve these problems.

Critical thinking, thanks acutely to that government-schooling, is in short supply. It never occurs to them that there are already thousands of regulations on the books regarding guns. That there are already laws against murdering people. Laws against possessing firearms in and around schools. Yet none of these laws mattered to an individual intent on harming others. Interesting that. Criminals don’t care about laws.

The power-grabbing tyrants on the left use this growing class of Ignorati as political dupes to aid and abet them in their goals of taking away the only teeth citizens have to keep the tyrants at bay.

Days like this make me feel sad. Mostly that there are very few real men to stand up for the only Bill of Rights amendment that counts.

PitandPen on December 14, 2012 at 8:51 pm

    P&P I can attest to your post.

    Back in the 90’s the FIRST Liberal thing I threw overboard was my take on guns & gun control. It was the FIRST. I didn’t give up on the rest until after 9/11.

    I read a common sense article on how Liberals viewed guns and gun control and it opened my eyes like nothing else. I felt so stupid after reading the article because it was so self evident.

    Your post rings more true than you know.

    Skunky on December 14, 2012 at 9:33 pm

    P n P for the state of education in the western world and the far left influence we have ,Hegel,Kant and now Gramsci to blame. Up here in Canada a teacher was fired for handing out a zero for unfinished assignments against school policy. He was fired. There was an uproar over it. They changed policy. He now works at a private school teaching advanced physics.

    Schools should be held accountable for their finished product, the minds of our children. So many professors could never make it in the real world and stand insulated and sheltered from reality. They need to re-instate academic excellence and a return to analytical critical thinking. Universities need to give degrees that are worth having.

    Canadian Steve on December 15, 2012 at 5:48 am

I am a CHL holder, retired Fed. I do not want the president, congress, state gov’t to overreact to this tragedy and make gun ownership illegal. That said, I do not see the need for AK’s and the like in everyday citizens’ hands. Those types of weapons are for warfare, not home protection, hunting, recreation. A glock 9mm, 1916 mdl .45 cal, 30.06, and shotgun work nicely for that. If I’ve ruffled some gun nuts’ feathers, so be it.

WilliamMunny on December 14, 2012 at 8:52 pm

    William, I have read that so-called assault weapons are effectively impossible to define. Anyway, if they are so available, why should only criminals have access to them?

    skzion on December 15, 2012 at 1:56 pm

The shattered lives of all the innocents involved will never be the same. I didn’t realize that Israel had this problem sorted out already as well as they do. Why the hell can’t this country wake up to the real world. Opportunists just make me want to vomit.
It should be required for at least, each schools Principal, to be trained and armed if not all school staff willing to do it. These things are preventable.
There’s a statistic that’s been made public lately. The time and murdered innocents, of mass killings when stopped by the police and private citizens. The private citizen who just goes about their business to work, school, recreation, are much faster in stopping armed crazy people. Cops try to be there asap, but it’s just not possible to be everywhere all the time. It’s no coincidence that the most dangerous cities in the U.S. are the ones with the strictest gun control. So barbaric.

samurai on December 14, 2012 at 9:38 pm

Debbie, I noticed how the crowd that are asking for more ” gun control” really mean gun BAN. These leftist vultures from Michael moore and his fellow scavenger the hyenas in Congress and Media immediately keep asking “when will it stop”? I answer when you start going after your friends in the media (movies, magazines, video games) that produce trash (which Debbie I can not say I envy your movie critic post) and you have nut jobs getting inpiration from those works of modern culture.

Funny how the 1st Amendment fools will do everything possible to get rid of the 2nd Amendment yet these fools wrap themselves on the Constitution and claim their civil rights are being violated. Seems you can’t have both ways, if you claim to care about the 1st Amendment, then you can not say get rid of the 2nd. That shows that you really do not care about freedom but just pick and choose what you want from the Constitution like a chinese fast food menu.

Michael Savage, radio talk show host, has brought up this subject and also in the past in reference to other shooters. Thats is the subject of the prescription drugs that are being dispensed like a PEZ toy for anything from having a bad day at work to having a shouting match with the spouse. I think if the media were doing their job thats where they need to look besides the mental history.

Yes guns are awful when used in evil ways like this especially against school children but the gun is just the symptom not the cause of whats wrong with out society and there is just not cause like the guns.

Mario on December 14, 2012 at 10:44 pm

Thank you again Debbie, for cutting straight through the bullcrap.

Jack on December 15, 2012 at 12:15 am

Do not forget the Ma:alot Massacres in Israel, when 22 chlidren were killed, and loads more were injured, by Arafat:s terrorists. These were not some random shooting by a crazed person, but a planned killing of kids. No wonder Israel has armed security guards in its schools

Bexter on December 15, 2012 at 12:38 am

    Yes, Israel’s approach makes sense: first you endanger Jewish life by protecting Muslims and giving them Jewish land; then you put a band-aid on this by deploying armed guards everywhere. Add to this a level of domestic spying to control the Jews and prevent the Muz from going TOO far.

    Yes, Israel is a model society.

    skzion on December 15, 2012 at 10:18 am

      So lets kill them all or expell them all! Right?

      Frenchkiss on December 15, 2012 at 9:15 pm

        Right!

        skzion on December 16, 2012 at 8:07 pm

As was spotlighted in that “Mass Murderers Agree” illustration within the start of this article, gun control is always the first refuge of tyrants. (We also see nowadays in places like Hugo Chavez’s Venezuela, where countries where the people are unarmed are made to fear their governments, and with good reason.) Indeed, from what my understanding is, the Nazi gun control laws set up under Hitler may well have been the basis for what the U.S. has been proposing ever since the late 1960’s.

And as far as so-called “public opinion polls” that purport to show significant (over 50%) support for so-called “gun control” (read: nullification of the Second Amendment), I can guarantee you that if those brain-dead zombies (which essentially constitute the percentage that voted for Obama) were to be asked on other matters they’d support more control (i.e. left-wing) over all media and other forms of infringements on the First Amendment – as if the entire Bill of Rights were suddenly subjected to the rules of “majoritarian” whims, i.e. mob rule.

And yes, isn’t it interesting that whenever carnages like this happen, no-one but the likes of Savage, Mark Levin et al. (and this would also include Debbie who raises the point from time to time) bring up the issue on the mindless, gratuitous violence (to say nothing of the promotion of promiscuous sex, etc.) served up by Hollywood in movies, TV et al. (But then, the news media is now very much intertwined with the entertainment industry – as we see with CBS and Paramount, NBC and Universal, ABC and Disney, CNN and Warner Bros., Fox News and 20th Century-Fox, et al.) As well as what Savage has brought up about the role various prescription (and some over-the-counter) drugs play.

ConcernedPatriot on December 15, 2012 at 1:59 am

    I’m glad you mentioned media. One thing I heard on the news last night was that the perpetrator was a HUGE fan of video games. When I heard about the tragic event one of my first thoughts, especially since the perp was a relatively young man, was, “I wonder how many hours a day this kid spent playing video/computer games like “Call of Duty” or some such games where the objective is to commit mass murder.

    We hear so much about gun control, and yet nobody seems to want to do anything about the “entertainment” elements of our society who desensitize children to the realities of violence, making it look oh-so-glamourous.

    I’m sure that more will come out regarding the boy’s beef with his mother that led him to kill her, what, if any, meds he was on and what his psychological problems were, why he hadn’t seen some members of his family in a couple of YEARS, and why, after killing his mother, he felt it necessary to go to the school and kill a bunch of little kids. But the fact that he was dressed in para-military garb (not something you usually see Goth kids wearing) makes me think “video games.”

    Of course, the lefties will jump all over gun control, but G-d forbid we ban violent movies and other entertainment media.

    DG in GA on December 15, 2012 at 7:40 am

      Well you see, DG: 1st amendment GOOD, 2nd amendment BAD.

      skzion on December 15, 2012 at 10:21 am

His tears tend to be selective: http://www.politico.com/story/2012/12/connecticut-school-shooting-obamas-tears-85111.html

Worry01 on December 15, 2012 at 2:17 am

The comments about security at Israeli schools are spot on. There are those in America who continue to take our freedoms for granted and who will continue to take freedom from us.

AL on December 15, 2012 at 3:07 am

Wow! This website and all the comments just shows how truly ignorant hicks American’s are!
This is going to continue until American’s learn that gun control works! Look at Australia for a great example. And dont start saying “but my freedoms is being taken away” or you need protection from terrorists.
The United States of Israel also doesn’t have or had any real threats from arab terrorists, 9/11 was orchestrated by the American Government.

Australia on December 15, 2012 at 4:47 am

    That’s right, Australia! Start your first comment here with a “wow.”

    skzion on December 15, 2012 at 10:31 am

Australia
You are even more socialist than Canada is(was! We finally got the gun registry killed). Gun control does not work, there are more illegal guns in the hands of real criminals than ever before. Legal gun owners in Canada are treated like they are all wing nuts.

Canadian Steve on December 15, 2012 at 6:28 am

right on debbie

and here comes the left to
cheaply politicize
a great tragedy

they will dishonor the victims
by wailing for
gun control/people control

forget your freedoms and rights
their agenda trumps reason

did you see obama’s phony tears

i say phony because there
weren’t any

he forgot to put onion juice
on his finger

prestigio on December 15, 2012 at 8:02 am

It’s not okay to call for more gun control in the wake of this tragedy, but it’s perfectly acceptable to advocate for less gun control?

Alana on December 15, 2012 at 8:20 am

    this country was founded
    with the notion that
    individual human rights are superior
    to any rights of the state

    moreover
    all lawful prerogatives of gov’t are
    derived solely from the consent
    of the governed and subject to revocation therefrom

    human beings do not require the
    existence of gov’t

    it’s vice versa

    prestigio on December 15, 2012 at 8:54 am

    YES Alana, because if you actually READ DS’ column you would understand how the 2nd Amendment would make us safer, as well as trying to stop the counterproductive gun BANNING (which is what dopes like you want, after all).

    Yep…a short post (by Alana) looong on emotions and hand-wringing but short on facts and understanding of the law and rights (and regulations). It’s dumb in LiberalLand!!!

    Skunky on December 15, 2012 at 11:49 am

when you can’t answer
with reason
you drag out the
argumentum ad hominem

which isn’t an argument at all
but a cheap attempt to silence
the opposition who are
winning the argument

prestigio on December 15, 2012 at 9:02 am

Some additional notes:

1. I noted Beslan because this school was in the Soviet Sphere i.e. no guns for citizens with which they could defend themselves. The result was devastating for the kids.

2. Australia has a very unique past, geographical location, and a specialized immigration policy. Research more…

3. Mark Scott, RIP, who was a well-known Talk Radio voice in Detroit had thought about a restriction i.e. Only OMNI DIRECTIONAL WEAPONS – no restrictions about type.

4. In the 1960s I attended a High School that had a Shooting Range in its basement. Rifle Club members carried their rifles on the DSR Public busses! THERE WERE NO INCIDENTS.

5. WEAPON OWNERSHIP was understood to be an Individual’s Right – hunting, sport shooting, duels, criminal protection – but the PRIMARY REASON WAS TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM GOVERNMENT ENSLAVEMENT.

6. I recommend http://www.jpfo.org and its Library of Books for sale…..learn the real reasons for gun control.

PRAY FOR THE KIDS & PARENTS. BE SAFE.

Dennis on December 15, 2012 at 9:07 am

Wyoming Senator Alan Simpson was once asked in an interview what his opinion of gun control was and he answered: “Where I come from, gun control is how steady you hold your rifle.”

Rochelle on December 15, 2012 at 12:03 pm

One story eh? There is tons of stories like this involving this swines in Poland kiling ,torture and bestiality from Polish Jews on Polish citizens after II WW,thats why Iam so eager to go whenever to take a dump on their tomb/graves

jew and ugly on December 15, 2012 at 12:33 am

AH, SEE! I SAID IT YESTERDAY, UGLY IS ONE OF THE POLACKS.

Italkit on December 15, 2012 at 12:03 pm

    Yep Italkit…gotta give you props. You did indeed! Well done!

    Skunky on December 15, 2012 at 12:15 pm

      Thanks, Skunky. I also mentioned a few days ago that I didn’t think Ms. Saldanha committed suicide and now I see that Debbie is thinking along those lines.

      Italkit on December 15, 2012 at 1:17 pm

If a member of the staff at the school had been packing, there may of been less mayhem.

Rochelle on December 15, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    Exactly, Rochelle!

    I don’t walk my dog wo my 38. We will decide the legalities later. Meanwhile, I will protect my dog.

    How much more should parents do for their child?

    As goes, so goes ... on December 15, 2012 at 11:06 pm

Ugly is the right handle, just leave the Jews out of it and replace with either libtard or Mooslim. Truth in media is still important. Accuracy counts.
To anybody else that feels sick about this latest horrible action, I recommend taking a day away from your normal activities. I’m not even getting out of my PJ’s today. Music, phone calls to loved ones, and people I haven’t talked to in a while. Picking up a book or audio book I’ve been meaning to get to as well. Some bright lighting in a room will assist getting away from the horrible world we’ve seen unfold.

samurai on December 15, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    He is just trying to hijack this thread for his anti-semitic rant. His persuasive powers are on a par with his overall intelligence.

    Worry01 on December 15, 2012 at 1:20 pm

Debbie’s entire argument is undermined by the fact that the Newport shooter used guns that were owned for the purpose of saving innocents lives / deterring violence.

Guns purchased to increase safety wound up taking over 20 lives.

Besides, extending her argument, one could argue that if the children were all armed, the shooter would have been less likely to be able to kill as many as he did. But I doubt Debbie would endorse 5 yr olds carrying guns. Why is that ? Because Debbie knows that guns have a power far beyond that of a knife, scissors, or a baseball bat. This is why we don’t allow 6 yr olds to carry guns, but we do allow them to carry a baseball bat or have scissors in their backpack.

Carson on December 15, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    Carson, how could an argument be undercut by a single cherry-picked example?

    Gun control with teeth increases crime, in general. The matter has been studied scientifically via before-and-after studies in several areas. So GC is bad policy in addition to being unconstitutional.

    Now go away.

    skzion on December 15, 2012 at 2:24 pm

      Past gun control legislation would not have even stopped the shooter. He acquired those firearms by murder and theft. Gun limits, extensive background checks, and holding periods would not of impacted the shooter in the least, since he never legally acquired the firearms to begin with.

      Adam Lanza did try to purchase a rifle in a gun shop not long before he went on a rampage: http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-sandy-hook-gunman-tried-to-buy-rifile-days-before-20121215,0,5913090.story

      Lanza did not want to wait the fourteen days for the holding period. The main point is that Lanza was not deterred by such a regulation. Also, criminals normally do not purchase guns in the normal way, since many of them are convicted felons who cannot legally own firearms in most states. Possession of a firearm while on probation usually entails a trip right back to prison, and new charges being brought.

      Worry01 on December 15, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    Hey Caca I bet if you and your loved ones were ever in a situation similar to the school shooting you would WISH WITH ALL YOUR MIGHT for a gun to get out of it!!!!!!

    It’s just like the death penalty. NO ONE (US STATES) should have the right to take a life right????????? Except when SOMEONE IN YOUR LIFE IS MURDERED AND KILLED!!!!!!!! Watch “Investigation Discovery” channel for one week to see what EVIL CAN DO!!

    You “DO GOODERS are ALL ALIKE with your CHILD LIKE THINKING which always ends up being KIND to the CRUEL and CRUEL to the KIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    StinkyBird on December 16, 2012 at 12:43 am

I would say that the real problem was very poor security at that school. One armed security guard would have cut the body count down substantially.

Also, the firearms were legally acquired by the shooter’s mother. Her son blew her face off to acquire them. It was an act of murder and theft. No law currently under discussion would have covered this. Of course the real agenda is not gun control, but confiscation through mandatory buyback programs. The statements being made by gun control advocates are purposely vague, since the opposition would be on to their game at once otherwise.

Worry01 on December 15, 2012 at 3:40 pm

Actually, Debbie has her facts incorrect. Israeli’s started the armed school guards policy following the Maalot Massacre. That did not deter or prevent the Mercav Ha raz shooting.

Carson on December 15, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    Carson, are you a troll? Those who come here, blab, and then ignore responses could certainly be categorized as such.

    How about doing a search for scholarly literature on the effects of gun control? You will find that I accurately summarized it. If you find otherwise, I will engage your points.

    skzion on December 15, 2012 at 8:36 pm

    Caca, you don’t actually think that Debbie thinks children should carry a gun? You can’t be that naïve??????????? How about the ADULTS at the school. Would that work??

    Hey Caca, I bet if you and your loved ones were ever in a situation similar to the school shooting you would WISH WITH ALL YOUR MIGHT for a gun to get out of it!!!!!!

    It’s just like the death penalty. NO ONE (US STATES) should have the right to take a life right????????? Except when SOMEONE IN YOUR LIFE IS MURDERED AND KILLED!!!!!!!! Watch “Investigation Discovery” channel for one week to see what EVIL CAN DO!!

    You “DO GOODERS are ALL ALIKE with your CHILD LIKE THINKING which always ends up being KIND to the CRUEL and CRUEL to the KIND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    StinkyBird on December 16, 2012 at 12:56 am

Carson, the Merkaz haRav’s massacre has been limited by a guy that shot the criminal right after the 8th victim. Not perfect, but it still saved lives.

Yerushalmi on December 15, 2012 at 6:56 pm

    Yerushalmi, correct me if I am wrong, but as I recall, the institution in question hired Bnei Amalek to work there.

    If I am right, then how can this possibly be justified?

    skzion on December 15, 2012 at 8:39 pm

Well, you know the Donks do win with their gradual and patient false propaganda that permeates the barren minds of peeps like “Carson”. (And it shouldn’t be that way)

Carson, really, is that all you got?

It’s high-time REAL Conservatives slam and break the arguments of these frauds. This is one issue where the Constitution is clear and Conservatives should be able to shut down the neutered arguments of the evil and simple-minded Donks.

Skunky on December 15, 2012 at 7:21 pm

    You know, Skunky, your insults are a pleasure to read. :)

    skzion on December 15, 2012 at 8:45 pm

      Skunky
      You have a beautiful mind. Time and again you nail the real issues discussed with the hammer of logic and reason. You have my utmost respect.

      Canadian Steve on December 15, 2012 at 9:11 pm

        Thank you Skzion & Canadian Steve. I feel we have the facts on our side and we must do all we can to break the mental-cased Liberal argument. It’s all mostly lies and/or overwrought emotion and I have no patience for it anymore. Because I used to be a Lib who believed in the lies (I was low-information) and I value the TRUTH and we are in deep trouble with 4 more years of Obama-Putin.

        And I have much to learn myself and I love learning from others. The more we know the more we can save this country and our freedoms.

        Skunky on December 15, 2012 at 10:52 pm

If I had the money, I would offer to put your blog on a full page in the WSJ or NYT. Your analysis and commentary are 100% correct and need to heard, instead of the nonsense spewed forth on the major TV news.

Mike L on December 15, 2012 at 7:31 pm

I own guns, always have. I am not a gun nut. I don’t have gun bumper stickers on my car. I really don’t care whether guns even exist or not, but they do. My guns have never jumped into my hands and forced me to rob a convenience store or shoot someone. I’m not a member of the NRA. I don’t care if the NRA exists or not. Actually, in my opinion, they whine and play the victim too much. Personally, I don’t think many or most people should be allowed to own guns, have children, drive motorized vehicles or drink alcohol. I really believe that they’re just too damned stupid and simian. But, that’s just me. I think we should do everything possible to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, the mentally ill, illegal aliens and Muslims, but I don’t believe in the abolition of gun ownership. I think our schools and other public places where unarmed helpless people congregate should be protected by highly trained, gun-toting warriors of some sort. I don’t know who that is yet. I’m thinking about it. I think the community of men (remember them?) might have to get together and rotate through the schools as volunteer protectors. You know a few dads a day, take off work one day a month for the protection of your children. A school with a few hundred dads could find enough to do this. They could be trained by police and or military types. They would be armed and would have powers of confrontation, arrest, detention and use of deadly force. Note that I said “highly trained”, that means even better than the cops. A gun, in and of itself, means nothing and guarantees nothing. But, a gun in the hand of a highly trained, committed individual protecting his children would stop most or all of these atrocities. We’ve gotta wake up sometime, it might as well start now. Now, this goes for everyone … learn to protect yourselves in armed and unarmed combat. The crazies are, the Muslims are. If you’re not, you’re choosing to be a victim.

Pray Hard on December 15, 2012 at 8:11 pm

@Carson-is their something that you can not comprehend. This maniac shooter would get a gun no matter what law was in place. About letting children bring in scissors and bats to school, obviously in your area its allowed but here where I live those are considered weapons and are not allowed unless written agreement is in place and direct supervision. After school sports provide their bats.

The ownership of a gun is allowed in the Constitution. I can take your agruement and say those shoot em up, zombie 1st shooter games can cause a nut to be desensitize to refer to his fellow humans as just cogs in a game. Watching movies glorifying violence make think they are movie stars being watch by millions. The over prescription of psychiatric drugs is also something no media outlet is investigating, why? Maybe because of the amount of lobbying money that goes into politicians to keep them out the loop.

So you want guns ban then lets start with violent movies, video games, and comic books. Lets also start really cutting the flow off the psychiatric drugs being given out for any little hang up in life.

Mario on December 15, 2012 at 8:47 pm

Great article, Debbie, so true!! I agreee with you 100%!

Dave on December 16, 2012 at 2:59 am

Debbie, there are so many good comments here that require no elaboration, that’s why you really should add a “like” button so we can affirm them.

Italkit on December 16, 2012 at 3:50 am

The problem herein lies with the fact that Americans, specifically lefties, don’t want to address the taboo issue of mental illness. A lot of parents refuse to acknowledge that their kids are stricken with some level of a mental disorder. The longer mental illness is left untreated, the more psychiatric behavior and feelings will fester eventually leading to deadly activities. Guns don’t need to be controlled; people’s psychiatric illnesses do. We need to improve mental health care. Certain people should not be allowed to roam the streets. They need to be locked up in an insane asylum instead and most of them are unfortunately not. Demanding that we impose stricter gun control policies is a typical way for lefties to ignore the real issues that we need to deal with. They sooner take their outrage on guns rather than on the psychopaths that use them to kill the innocent. Guns can’t kill on their own. People kill. And if they can’t have access to firearms, they will look for other ways to kill. Most gun-owners spend more time cleaning their guns than they do shooting them. Parents need to live up to their responsibilities and seek psychiatric attention and treatment for their mentally deranged children. For people who claim to be open-minded and intellectual, these lefties can sometimes come off as being dumb-asses with the things they say. They don’t know what they are talking about.

Challah Maidel on December 16, 2012 at 4:42 am

    Challah Maidel I hope everyone here reads your post. It was fabulous and I couldn’t agree more. Thank you!

    Skunky on December 16, 2012 at 11:18 am

Was there an armed guard at the Mercaz Harav yeshiva? The article assumes there was not. However, Israel began the program of armed citizen guards in the schools after the Maalot massacre in the 1970s.

Davis on December 16, 2012 at 8:01 am

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDQQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D1qLePhm-xGs&ei=J7_NUIu7C6z8iQKIooCIBg&usg=AFQjCNFf5VN3x5lVk5LiPTpmH7UphziiyQ

I know it is not the same, but this violin piece by Itzhak Perlman hits home the sadness of this tragic event.

Canadian Steve on December 16, 2012 at 8:41 am

I want the right to defend myself with a weapon. Moreover, I will fight to protect my 2nd amendment rights which, as I understand them, prevent government from forbidding me from having a weapon to defend myself.

That said, I believe the second amendment guarantees my right to have weapons needed for self-defense. It does not, as I see it, give me the right to have a weapon of mass destruction. Now I do not know exactly where the line between weapons necessary to preserve my right to defend myself and weapons that do not primarily serve that purpose should be drawn, but I do think the distinction must be made.

I have very little confidence that this mass murderer in Connecticut had a reasonable defensive need for the weapons he used in Sand Hook Elementary. Certainly self-defense was not his primary concern. We need to take a good look in this country at what weapons reasonably serve the need for self-defense, and what ones should be prohibited to the general public. We also may need to consider how to identify people who, by their actions, may have forfeited their second amendment rights.

We as a society did a very poor job of protecting the legitimate interests of the children at Sandy Hook Elementary.

Larry S. on December 16, 2012 at 10:38 am

    Larry S., I think Skzion said it best (and most pithy!) when he previously stated why should people who are legal owners be at a disadvantage to the criminals that can ILLEGALLY obtain any weapon they want?

    I’m not falling for any Liberal or PC bent on this argument.

    The Left will take and twist and gain ground on ANYTHING they can use. It’s time for REAL Conservatives to nip their BS in the bud NOW. Obama-Putin has 4 more years. There is NO time to give any quarter to ANY Liberal argument. That needs to be discarded and Conservatives better start fighting like Warriors starting YESTERDAY!

    Skunky on December 16, 2012 at 11:46 am

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