June 11, 2013, - 8:58 am

Snowden No Hero – Should Be Prosecuted Like Manning; Partisan Hypocrites: Despite Denials, Limbaugh Others Supported More Invasive Bush NSA Wiretapping

By Debbie Schlussel

Edward Snowden, the private contractor, who violated his top secret security clearance and gave away secrets of government data mining to detect terrorists, should be prosecuted. Make no mistake. He is NOT a hero. He’s merely an arrogant, misguided egomaniac. And he’s no different than Bradley Manning, the soldier who gave away secrets to Julian Assange, for them to be publicized to the world. Many conservatives rightly called for Manning’s prosecution. Why do they hypocritically now make excuses for Snowden?

edwardsnowdenbradleymanning

Edward Snowden, Bradley Manning: Same Difference & Both Should be Prosecuted

On Friday, I heard a caller tell Rush Limbaugh that “we all–including you–supported this” under Bush. Limbaugh disagreed, claiming that right after 9/11, he said on the air that he hoped the terrorist attacks wouldn’t be used by the government to take away our rights. He then claimed he was always against this. But Limbaugh’s memory is selective. In fact, when a group of Arab Muslims (including HAMAS CAIR), left-wingers (including Greenpeace and the late Christopher Hitchens), the ACLU, and libertarian-”conservatives” on the right filed a federal lawsuit in Detroit in January 2006 to stop Bush NSA telephone wiretapping, Limbaugh supported the Bush wiretaps and supportively read my article on the plaintiffs and participants on the air. Those wiretaps were far more invasive than the the Snowden-revealed program of mining phone numbers and e-mails for patterns. And Limbaugh and most on the right supported the wiretaps without warrants. Now, they are upset over a program that is far more constitutional. There is nothing that violates any right to privacy here because conversations and e-mails are not being recorded, unless and until there is probable cause.

It was laughable, yesterday, when Limbaugh read, with approval, a British newspaper’s differentiation of Snowden from Manning because Snowden is “smart” and “has a girlfriend” and “a life.” Huh? He’s an arrogant 29-year-old with a girlfriend who is an “acrobatic dancer” (one step above stripper, but still complete with pole). These are silly “distinctions” without a difference to what he did: jeopardize national security and break the law. But let’s say she was a ballroom dancer and they lived in a mansion. So what? We’re now judging a guy’s violation of national security based on class and snobbery? Really? A soldier–Manning–is “not credible,” but a pencil-necked, egomaniacal Millennial who hides in Hong Kong is? A soldier who disclosed national security secrets is to be condemned because he disclosed secrets because he is gay (at that time, Don’t Ask Don’t Tell was still in place), but a contractor–who took over $100,000 in annual pay (and–newsflash!–cashed the checks, because he’s such a “principled guy”) is not to be condemned for breaking the law and informing Islamic terrorists what we are doing? Thanks, Rush. Good to know you’re a snob. But both of these cretins should be prosecuted, just like you and other conservatives (such as FOX News’ Michelle Fraudkin) were calling for the leaker of information regarding the far more invasive Bush NSA wiretaps in 2005 to the New York Times to be prosecuted.






This conceited Gen Y geek, Snowden, said he disclosed the information–and put Islamic terrorists on alert–because he wanted “the public to decide.” Um, I don’t need the public to decide every aspect of national security. I don’t need people who watch “Keeping Up with the Kardashians” and “Teen Mom” and “Two and a Half Men” to have a vote in what we do to keep America safe. I don’t even want the pro-Trayvon Martin/New Black Panthers/Islam Rich Lowry and his National Review reader-idiots to have a say. National security is national security, and the masses don’t get a vote on what we do to keep America safe. America is not a democracy. It’s a republic. And we don’t have–thank G-d–a Ross Perot fantasy of national rule by computer vote on everything we do. The country would cease to exist if we did it that way. There’s a reason that what Snowden had is called “top SECRET” security clearance. It’s supposed to be a secret. The public has no right “to decide.”

I had to laugh, again, over a headline atop this morning’s Drudge Report, about how Democrats love government surveillance when it’s Obama, instead of Bush, doing the surveilling. Well, you can also say the same of the reverse, since most Republicans and conservatives supported far more invasive surveillance when the opposite was true, but now they are shocked–shocked!–that the government is looking at their phone records. And that’s the thing about demagogical partisans. There are no shortage of them on every side of the ideological divide. I’m not looking to partisans for protecting the country. I’m looking to principles. If you supported government surveillance in 2006, you should support it in 2013. If your support depends on what letter comes after the name of the President doing the data collection, you are a fraud and a hypocrite and not to be taken seriously. I’m interested in what keeps us safe.

Is the data mining of every phone call and e-mail excessive and overkill? Perhaps. But that’s only if they were listening in–China-style–to each call and reading each e-mail. That would be unconstitutional, but it’s not what’s happening here. In fact, what’s happening here is that data is collected and algorithms are run to look for patterns. That’s effective, and it’s necessary in our day and age with the technology we have. People need to catch up. This isn’t listening in on Ma and Pa Kettle’s analog landline telephone calls. We’re not in those days anymore.

Yes, with all this they didn’t get the Tsarnaev Bros. No system is perfect, and we even ignored the Russian warnings on Tamerlan Tsarnaev (but if the government had started tapping his phone conversations then, the ACLU, Rand Paul, and HAMAS CAIR would be all over that with lawsuits). I don’t trust the Obama administration, and the IRS scandal is appalling. We should be skeptical when government uses information to hurt people whose viewpoints they don’t like. But that’s not what’s going on here. There’s no evidence of that. There’s only the self-appointed saving–and we don’t need to be saved–by some loser high school drop-out contractor who managed to finagle his way to a $122,000 per year job and top secret security clearance, when he clearly wasn’t to be trusted at all.

For years, I’ve written on this site about the problems with the Tea Party embracing anti-Semitic, whack job libertarian politicos like Ron Paul and his son Rand. And I wondered how long it would be before the success of the Tea Party would lead to crazies like the Paulistinians ultimately reaching the pinnacle of leadership in the conservative movement, where they were once the pinnacle of pin-up boys for America’s fringe neo-Nazis. Well, it wasn’t long at all, sadly.

The crazy black helicopter crowd now rules the roost (and continues to ally with the crazy ACLU/terrorist lobby left and HAMAS CAIR on this). Rand Paul, who has Presidential stars in his eyes, says he will file a lawsuit all the way to the Supreme Court. Well, good luck with that Rand and the Paulistinians. Remember the NSA wiretap lawsuit of 2006, I wrote about above? In 2007, those wiretaps were held constitutional, and those included surveillance of actual conversations. This is just about mining of meta-data and mega-data. Not unconstitional, you libertarian “legal scholars.” Yup, gotta love the Paulistinian crowd. Always responding with “the Constitution” to every single question, and yet they really don’t know much about constitutional law, since there’s nothing illegal going on here.

A week or so after the Boston Marathon bombings, Rand Paul wrote a letter to the editor of the Wall Street Journal, in which he prayed for the constitutional rights of the “Arab American boys,” the Tsarnaevs (here’s a tip, Rand: they’re not Arabs, they’re Chechens). That’s who he is concerned with. Not you. Not your rights, not your safety. The rights of terrorists. Islamic terrorists. Their rights above your ultimate constitutional right: to life.

He chooses them. NOT you. And all of those who now condemn data mining when, in 2006, they supported NSA surveillance (at least the Pauls were consistent in their whackjobism from then to now) you are partisan frauds and grandstanders who don’t stand for a thing. You are no different at all from the Obamabots.

And you won’t keep me safe. If there is another terrorist attack, and there will be, the blood will be on your hypocritical hands.

While Rand Paul continues to empower himself and grandstand here, he’s also empowering Islamic terrorists (as is his new buddy, Edward Snowden–who will soon have an “acrobatic dancer girlfriend” in prison).

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101 Responses

This is just one of the many reasons why Debbie is far superior to the rest. She will follow and report the truth no matter where it takes her. She will not be influenced at all by possible ideological binds even if it were to cost her professionally.

I_AM_ME on June 11, 2013 at 9:09 am

No evidence Rand Paul has any great support. His support of immigration bill dooms his chances, and his stance on NSA shows him to be an Islamo-lover, just like Herr Ron.

A: I wish you were right. But he is now extremely popular on the right, whereas his dad was rightly seen as a crackpot. The Paulistinians are now mainstream in the GOP. DS

Adam on June 11, 2013 at 9:15 am

    Yup.

    All the crackpot libertarian notions are mainstream now in the GOP. None of them have anything to do with conservatism – not that there is anything like a genuine conservative intellectual movement in evidence these days.

    NormanF on June 11, 2013 at 9:51 am

This is why I read this site.
As much as it pains me to give credit to the regime. Points well made.

samurai on June 11, 2013 at 9:28 am

    I read this site because, I have not the access and resources to get beneath mere surface reports, . . .

    PhillipGaley on June 11, 2013 at 9:57 am

Yup – many on the Right embrace betrayal and treason if it hurts a President they hate. They don’t love our country; they’re blind partisan hypocrites more concerned with scoring political points than they are with working to keep America safe. The Constitution isn’t concerned with the political philosophy of the government of the day; its concerned with dividing powers and making sure no single person can abuse them. And that’s not what’s been going on in this case. Violating our national security isn’t a partisan hatchet job; its a matter of our survival as a country. But we can’t see the Right here putting the country’s national interests above its own narrow partisan political needs. And it wonders why its not being taken seriously.

Go figure.

NormanF on June 11, 2013 at 9:47 am

    Norman F. wrote: “Yup – many on the Right embrace betrayal and treason if it hurts a President they hate….”

    Yup Norman. If I were a German, I would have embraced the White Rose traitors and the Oskar Schilder traitor and other German traitors and low lifes. You and Ms. Schlussel are the real patriots.

    S. Klein on June 11, 2013 at 4:50 pm

      correction: Oskar Schindler

      S. Klein on June 11, 2013 at 4:53 pm

The war on Islamic terrorism and Al-Qaeda is over Debbie.
If you don’t believe me ask Obama.
So who do you think these invasive systems are designed to keep an eye on?

“There is nothing that violates any right to privacy here because conversations and e-mails are not being recorded, unless and until there is probable cause.”
- Ha ha, if you believe that Obama droid press release summary then I have some icebergs from the North Pole to sell you.
Chuckles…

Nothing’s keeping you safe except your misguided belief in the bi-partisan objectives of this administration’s political maneuverings and the sooner you realize that the safer you’ll be.

You’re almost certainly right about Edward Snowden but that’s about it.
He’s probably working in concert with the Chinese government.
“I would laugh if my heart was not so heavy… about my poor Lisl”

L.A.zrus on June 11, 2013 at 9:48 am

Yes, Snowden might kid a lotta folks but, he doesn’t kid me, . . .

PhillipGaley on June 11, 2013 at 9:59 am

This is how conservatives kill themselves. In France before the Second World War, conservatives adopted a defeatist line towards Germany. What generated this attitude among them were center-left coalitions that formed governments in France. Leon Blum, a major socialist parliamentarian, caused this loathing to reach the point where reactionaries actually sought subordination to or defeat by the Third Reich over the continuation of the government of the day. This stance undermined France’s ability to defend itself against invasion of Germany in May 1940.

Worry01 on June 11, 2013 at 10:02 am

How does a dropout geek like this get top secret clearence to begin with? and how many more like him have the same clearence? Its just wrong to have big brother watching everything we do for the sake of keeping us safe. In reality,the nsa is just security theater or else the would have done something usefull with the e-mails it read, like actually stopping the boston bombers before the fact. They were warned about these guys and still looked the other way so how usefull is the nsa? If you people r willing to sacrifice privacy for the sake of security, you deserve neither.

who knows? on June 11, 2013 at 10:04 am

Great article and 100 percent right-thanks!

WTP on June 11, 2013 at 10:07 am

Unless you’ve read something I haven’t read, Debbie, I’ve not read about any truly national security information that has been leaked by Snowden that endangers any of us. Essentially, the same information had been leaked by NSA whistle blowers previously, which was ignored by the mainstream media until this Snowden guy came along. Nobody in the mainstream media seemed to care until they recently learned of the government’s spying on reporters.

I think far more energy should be directed at punishing members of the Obama administration who leaked classified information left and right about the supposed Bin Laden capture and kill, effectively putting a target on the head of every member of the elite Seal Team 6. About a couple dozen of them were targeted and killed by the Taliban in the weeks after those disclosures. Why was Leon Panetta, John Brennan and others permitted to leak classified information, or disinformation as the case may be, to prop up Barry’s cred, including information shared with the makers of “Zero Dark Thirty.” Real American heroes died because of Barry’s vanity. That should be investigated and prosecuted.

How about the FBI consultant who was sharing with Shia Labeouf more than five years ago classified information about NSA’s intelligence gathering capabilities during the making of “Eagle Eye?” Nothing to see there?

Also, has it occurred to you that if the government’s surveillance is as extensive as disclosed, it would have been impossible for the government to miss any plot by the Tsarnaev brothers to carry out the bombings in Boston?

Firstly, the Tsarnaev family came to the U.S. with the help of their uncle, Ruslan Tsarni, who gained his U.S. citizenship through marriage to the daughter of Graham Fuller, a top CIA official with whom Tsarni once lived. Fuller concocted Iran-Contra and has been at the forefront in advocating the exploitation of radical Islamists in Central Asia to destabilize Russia and China. He seems to fancy a new Ottoman Empire.

Secondly, the Tsarnaev brothers were already on the radar screen after both the FBI and CIA received warnings from the Russians, and the FBI admitted that the FBI had interviewed and met with the brothers on several occasions prior to the Boston bombings–only after their mother outed their involvement with her sons.

Finally, there are two possibilities given the extent of NSA’s surveillance activities for missing this one. Our government knew of the Tsarnaev brothers’ plans and intentions in Boston and allowed them to play out. Or our government wanted to give the impression these two individuals were responsible for an attack carried out by someone else. Take your pick, either way it’s not pretty.

Don’t direct your anger at Snowden. Some of us are sick and tired of being played by our government in a deliberate effort to strip us of our civil liberties. If this is the type of government we wanted, then we’re not much better than the form of government offered by the Nazis. Oh wait, I’m forgetting, our government brought a lot of those guys over here under new identities following the end of the war under Operation Paperclip and integrated them into the top levels of our government so we could learn from them. No wonder we find ourselves where we are today. Ike must have been on to something when he warned us about that creepy military industrial complex.

Gary Welsh on June 11, 2013 at 10:10 am

@worry01
There’s nothing defeatist about realizing that Obama has other priorities besides National Security and defending against Islamic extremism.

France actually is an interesting example. They built up massive defences along the Marginot Line but in the end they were totally useless because the Germans bypassed them.
The silly dopes thought their defensive systems would save them no matter how out to lunch their politicians were.

L.A.zrus on June 11, 2013 at 10:11 am

I appreciated your article on Snowden. The man is indeed pure vermin. If he had had a genuine concern about what was going on at the NSA, he could have approached Congress or the inspector general’s office as a whistle blower. By going to Hong Kong, he clearly had no interest beyond his own self-aggrandizement. I left a link to a Guardian article that reveals a Russian offer of asylum to the man. Hong Kong would be a good place to go if Mr. Snowden wished to defect to Russia. The Chinese government is no friend of the United States, so it would probably turn a blind eye to this lovely man transiting to Russia through their country.

Worry01 on June 11, 2013 at 10:12 am

Of course the only issue Debbie forgot to mention is that what constitutes “probable cause” is becoming increasingly elastic and probably includes the same list of usual suspects that the IRS employs for tax exemption status.

L.A.zrus on June 11, 2013 at 10:16 am

Don’t kid yourself Debbie. The Hollyweird crowd love Manning too. But just like Manning, I’d love to know HOW THIS GUY GOT A CLEARANCE! High school dropout, went to tech school, and got hired by Booz Allen Hamilton (a HUGE defense contractor)? And awarded a Top Secret clearance? Given what he was working on, he probably also had the added SCI deisgnator, where TS-SCI means Special Compartmentalized Information, where you’re not supposed to know everything! And like Manning, he somehow got his hands on LOTS OF COMPARTMENTS! Thanks guys, way to hire and supervise some really sketchy dudes and entrust them with out national security.

SM: Amen. I wondered how he got TS clearance until I read that a million Americans have it. No way they scrutinized all of these people adequately. Booz Allen also has gazillions in Homeland Security contracts. DS

Sean M on June 11, 2013 at 10:17 am

    How this guy get a clearance? Our last two Democratic presidents (including the current one) would never have received one if not for elections and that goes for a lot of people they brought in.

    I_AM_ME on June 11, 2013 at 12:31 pm

I also noted a parallel with French conservatives in the 1930′s. They became defeatist simply because they could not dislodge a center-left government of the day. A conservative should never put their loathing of a government before its preservation. That is not patriotism. It is simple treachery.

Worry01 on June 11, 2013 at 10:18 am

    I so agree with your statement that it is not patriotic to put loathing of government before its preservation, and that partisanship has trumped national interest for many conservatives. How did we ever get to this point? Would people find it more palatable to be more like the French with the Nazis? In other words, the most important thing is to get out from under the current party in power than be concerned whether the country goes down the tubes. I like your analogy to FDR and how everyone came together to defend the country, no matter how much they disliked that president. I don’t consider this an invasion of privacy issue as much as a potential invasion of our country issue.

    Jackie101 on June 11, 2013 at 1:01 pm

So why should Americans support more invasive scrutiny now that the war on terror is over?

Hmm, I’m waitng…
Crickets chirping…

L.A.zrus on June 11, 2013 at 10:20 am

@worry01
The Obama administration and the government agencies are perfectly capable of preserving themselves, it’s the rest of schlubs that have to worry.

Obama’s already conceded the war on terror or weren’t you paying attention?
So if anybody is defeatist it’s them.

L.A.zrus on June 11, 2013 at 10:30 am

The way Rand Paul and his ilk run interference for Islamo-terrorists (including this particular instance) is no different from, say, New York City politicians (including every current Democrat candidate for Mayor), the New York “Civil Liberties”[sic] Union, Center for “Constitutional”[sic] Rights, et al., running interference for drug dealers, gangbangers, etc. – oh yes, and Islamo-terrorists, too – by their attacking the NYPD’s “stop-and-frisk” and counter-terror surveillance programs. I would not be surprised if at least some of the opponents of the former initiative had some connection, in some way (whether direct or peripheral), to Obama associate (and noted cop-hater) Van Jones, who had implemented in Oakland, CA (using vidcams or other such equipment to harass police doing their job) what the NYCLU is now advocating to defang the police from stopping gang violence and foiling terror plots.

ConcernedPatriot on June 11, 2013 at 10:33 am

No matter what screw up or scandal permeates the Obama administration I can always count on Debbie to remind me that the conservatives aren’t really much better.

L: Facts are stubborn things. Do you deny that the Bush administration wiretapped phone conversations of Americans (as opposed to this, which is merely data gathering), and were you whining about that and in favor of the Arabs, Muslims, and others they listened in on? Or do you just ignore it and say it doesn’t matter because Bush was a “conservative” (he wasn’t)? Clearly the latter, because I can always count on blind, foolish partisans like you with your predictable hypocrisy. You are NO different than the Obamabot hypocrites on the left. Exactly the same, in fact. Sorry, but I prefer principles over parties and personalities. If you are only about whether there’s an R or D after the name of the perpetrator, then I have no use for you and you are dangerous to the country. DS

L.A.zrus on June 11, 2013 at 10:35 am

Anybody remember why the Patriot act was passed in the first place?
Seems Obama has announced the rationale for that is over.

Crickets still chirping….

L.A.zrus on June 11, 2013 at 10:39 am

Rush Limbaugh was in the tank for the Bush administration for having his brother wash away his oxycodone/ doctor shopping scandal, so of course he turned a blind eye to malfeasance. Snowden is obviously looking for attention otherwise its no way he would’ve come forward knowing the risk of apprehencion.

LORD KOETEUS on June 11, 2013 at 10:40 am

I disagree with you on this one Debbie. Snowden’s whisleblowing did not give terrorists information they hadn’t known. It’s the American public, the low-information voter, who finally got it through their sick skulls that they are being watched. And for that, we have to thank Snowden.

Also, what Snowden revealed is the abuses of the system that had been set up to track terrorists but is now used to trip Americans for political purposes.

If Snowden has revealed any particular details that are truly new to terrorists or other spy organizations, I might’ve missed it. If so, tell us what it is.

Florida on June 11, 2013 at 10:44 am

You don’t know do you?
That’s why Obama runs circles around you dopes.
Anybody can do it.

Anyway lets dig up some more dirt on Rush Limbaugh. That’ll make us feel better.

L.A.zrus on June 11, 2013 at 10:44 am

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/11/booz-allen-snowden-fired/2411231/

He was finally fired.

Worry01 on June 11, 2013 at 10:48 am

This is an interesting angle to the story: http://www.federaltimes.com/article/20130610/DEPARTMENTS/306100010/1001

Worry01 on June 11, 2013 at 11:07 am

@Worry01
Sort of like shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted.

L.A.zrus on June 11, 2013 at 11:09 am

Yeah us gosh darn partisan hypocrites just continue to fail to realize that all that’s needed is greater government intrusiveness.
That’ll keep us safe.
Supervised by an administration that didn’t keep ambassador Stevens safe in Benghazi but let’s just forget about that shall we.

Islamic terrorism is defeated according to el presidente but lets just act like he doesn’t mean what he says.
What does that have to do with anything anyway?

We know what he means better than he does.

L.A.zrus on June 11, 2013 at 11:24 am

While ,he needs to be dealt with IF , he gives any specific plans as far as operations go in a given region. But it is a good thing that he exposed that the Fed Gov is spying on us as they are. Not that it wasn’t suspected already. But the gov and media ( which all of a sudden is concerned ) are trying to deflect away what the gov is doing to us. This is based on what I know, I don’t know everything about it, though, as most don’t.

William on June 11, 2013 at 11:25 am

Thank you Debbie for this reasoned and sane analysis. Criticizing the drone strikes was bad enough, now we have “conservatives” defending an outright traitor. They are playing politics with national security and it is revolting. I don’t recognize what passes for conservatism these days. Reason has gone out the window. The only thing that matters is opposing Obama for the sake of opposing him.

Laura on June 11, 2013 at 11:41 am

Patriotism is only real when it is hard. When you believe in a man and his party, it is an easy and feel good experience. For example, FDR was generally loathed by the Republican Party. However, when our country was attacked at Pearl Harbor, almost all of them rallied to the defense of their country. They did not question the motivations of FDR when the danger to our nation was so obvious. I fear that partisanship has trumped national interest in the minds of too many conservatives. It does not give off a good aura, and the general public senses this.

Worry01 on June 11, 2013 at 11:43 am

This knucklehead (Snowed-in) violated a ton of the laws and regulations within the “National Industrial Program Operations Manual (NISPOM)” and it’s many addendums. Whom is/was his Facilities Security Officer (FSO) and Assistant Security Officer(s) (ASO)? Who signed off on his SF-86 [if I remember correctly]? (reference dssDOTgov site). He’s 29 years old, and held a TSSCI clearance? He has ZERO history prior to being employed- 10 years prior he was just 19- a fricken student. Who were/are his references??…beerbong salesman? a professor?? Daf Punk?? Old Bradley has the same questions; where is/was his FSO and ASO?? How did he “manage” to bring in an outside thumb-drive et al etc.? How did/does an E-2/3 have “complete” access to the SIPER net??? 700,000+ classified documents/files?
While I DO support the “system,” I do NOT trust it’s administration at all times. That is to say, whether “right” or “left,” sometimes there is only 1 degree of seperation in each. At times, it is as if the “Ministry of Peace” and the “Ministry of Love” are symbiotic and synergistic. …but ol’ Boehner was all quiet when the IRS scandal broke-out regarding the “TEA Party”? (there’s that “1 degree” thing…

Sick_Boy on June 11, 2013 at 11:47 am

Totally disagree with you on this Deb.

Obama has expanded this program exponentially and is using it to find political “enemies”.
This program under Obama is about controlling U.S. citizens,not doing anything about terrorism.
Obama has spent hundreds of billions of dollars expanding this program and yet,the guy in New York city with the big car bomb was busted by concerned citizens not this big invasive program.
The Boston bombers weren’t caught beforehand.
Nidal Hasan wasn’t stopped beforehand.
How many examples have you personally provided on your own website of the FBI and DHS not bothering to deport,arrest or otherwise scrutinize KNOWN terrorists or terrorist sympathizers?
But you’re going to now say,”Oh this is a good program that we should have and expand because it will catch terrorists?
And I love how you provide justification of why you approve of this program because “that data is collected and algorithms are run to look for patterns. That’s effective, and it’s necessary in our day and age with the technology we have”.
Bullcrap.
Yes the technology is there,but they’re NOT using it against the people they’re supposed to be using it on.
That’s the difference that completely eludes you.

You’re going to sit there and tell me that the same government that is using the TSA against it’s own people
That won’t try Nidal Hasan and won’t call what he did an act of terrorism
That is colluding with the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Qaeda in the Middle East
Who won’t deport anyone
Is going to now suddenly use this incredibly intrusive tool for the protection of the country?
Puh-lease.

E: WRONG. Obama did not “expand” the program. If you listen to this schmuck, Snowden, he admits Bush did all the same stuff but he was hoping for his hero, Obama, to be different and to stop it. So, did you speak out against Bush, when he actually wiretapped Americans’ phone conversations? Nope. Do you have any evidence Obama has used these phone algorithms to “find political ‘enemies,” as you claim? Nope. Even Snowden didn’t say that. And here’s a tip: Obama has nothing to do with the Courts of Military Justice, which are screwing up the Hasan trial. Can you point to any proof otherwise? Nope. As you know, I’ve written about many cases of the government NOT deporting Islamic terrorists or arresting them–under Bush AND Obama. Not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in China or this arrogant jerk violating national security. Nice try, but no cigar. I don’t like Obama, but I don’t need to make up BS to bolster my case or attack Obama for doing what I defended Bush for doing (and so did you). DS

ebayer on June 11, 2013 at 11:56 am

I completely agree with you Debbie. When I heard what the NSA was doing I thought it sounded like a good thing and doesn’t compare at all to the real Obama scandals going on. A LOT of conservatives are wrapped up in wacko conspiracy theories – Bildeberg, the “UN building mass concentration camps in the US” theories, etc. So many Americans are so easily duped and misled.

David on June 11, 2013 at 12:01 pm

@Worry01
If you really think Obama is the modern day equivalent of FDR then you’re beyond help. Kiss your ass good-bye.
If you aren’t voting for him you should be.

Yes, it’s only real if it hurts isn’t it?
I can only imagine how much more real our patriotism would be if Obama himself leaked information to lets say the Russians for example or promised them more flexibility.
We’d just have to thank Obama for making us the most patriotic nation on earth then wouldn’t we?
Wacko bird.

@Laura
There’s nothing Snowden could do to undermine national security like Obama’s undermined national security but you don’t care.
If that’s reason then lets have crazy.

L.A.zrus on June 11, 2013 at 12:03 pm

@ebayer
I agree with you but Debs is unshakeable on this trust me.
If Syria invades Israel with weapons sold to them by America we’ll get a lecture on how McCain set up the deal for them.
Trust me.

L: Funny, how you’ve never ever commented on this site before, until this entry. Sounds like you are someone I previously banned (like Status Monkey). And I guess John McCain’s (and many other Republicans’) support for the Syrian Al-Qaeda fanatics and the Muslim Brotherhood doesn’t exist in your warped world. Thanks for the tip that you are in partisan denial no matter what. DS

L.A.zrus on June 11, 2013 at 12:09 pm

I plead the fifth.

Anyway McCain’s support for Al-Qaeda does exist in my world. What’s warped is that you won’t acknowledge it’s part of a “bi-partisan” effort.

Another thing that’s warped is that you think labelling me partisan is a substitute for having an argument.

L: Wow, someone needs eyeglasses here, and it ain’t me. I’ve criticized Obama repeatedly on this site, but I’m not going to be a fraud like you and the many predictable others and whine about a program I supported under Bush, just b/c Obama is now doing it. Yes, YOU are the partisan. I’m the one who HAS acknowledged the bi-partisan nature of many of the problems. Time for you to wake up and face the music. By the way, Bush wrote an op-ed in the Wall St. Journal that we must support all these “democratic” Muslim rebels b/c it’s a continuation of his Arab democracy program in Iraq and Gaza and Lebanon. And that’s worked out so well, right? Where was your criticism of that? Bush and the Republicans pretend they are for national security and they are the “counterterrorism party,” so they must be held to that standard. Obama has openly said he supports Islam, so why do you expect otherwise from him, but support the GOP whenever they do the same exact thing? Oh, yeah, b/c you are a blind hypocrite. The nerve of me for actually expecting conservatives to act conservative! You only expect the professed libs to be conservative, and only morons do that. DS

L.A.zrus on June 11, 2013 at 12:18 pm

The current administrations monitoring has nothing to do with protecting us against terrorist attacks but everything to do with fishing out his political enemies.

If they focused on likely enemies such as Islamists, the monitoring would make sense. However, they totally ignored 2 explicit warnings about the Tzarnaevs.

FoL: Bush ignored repeated warnings about 9/11. He refused to even allow ICE and INS agents to look at Zaccarias Moussaoui’s hard drive, which would have uncovered the 9/11 plot, because he didn’t want to violate Muslims’ and Arabs’ civil liberties. After 9/11, he set up a special division of the Justice Dept to go after people like me for saying things against Muslims online and successfully prosecuted several people for that–using their First Amendment rights. And he was the one who started this program and did illegal wire taps of actual phone conversations without a warrant. Did you complain that he did not focus on enemies, like Muslims? Nope. You can’t even use the word. Instead, you use the fictional BS PC word, “Islamists,” pretending that Muslims and Islam are not the problem. Why is that? Because you are a partisan, just like so many predictable others. Try principles over politics. DS

Facts of Life on June 11, 2013 at 12:22 pm

McCain has been setting up deals with Al-Qaeda in Syria but the only reason he can do that is because prez Bami is in so deep with the Muslim brotherhood he’s giving them a tax break.

L.A.zrus on June 11, 2013 at 12:23 pm

Data mining is evidence gathering absent a crime. The hype of these “magic” algorithms that can point out future bad guys that we can follow around and capture BEFORE they commit a crime is laughable. Debbie admitted that we missed the Tsarnaev brothers despite having them pointed out by the Russians and interviewed by the FBI. I believe the true purpose of this database comes into play AFTER a terrorist attack takes place and all telephone numbers/emails associated with the perpetrators can be run to identify other possible members and co-conspirators as quickly as possible so the cells can be quickly dismantled. The “magic math will keep us safe” story is just a sales job quickly concocted to justify this program that Snowden arrogantly exposed. The government never admits that it is pretty helpless in protecting us from those that want to do us harm, but they sure can round them up AFTER the fact! Unfortunately, someone has to first be a bloody and torn victim before the government can “save” us from a followup attack. Saving us from a deadly second attack from the same cell is what I believe the purpose of this database truly serves which Snowden removed all doubt about concerning its existence.

Mike on June 11, 2013 at 12:34 pm

“We wish in our country that morality may be substituted for egotism, probity for false honor, principles for usages, duties for good manners, the empire of reason for the tyranny of fashion, a contempt of vice for a contempt of misfortune, pride for insolence, magnanimity for vanity, the love of glory for the love of money, good people for good company, merit for intrigue, genius for wit, truth for tinsel show, the attractions of happiness for the ennui of sensuality, the grandeur of man for the littleness of the great, a people magnanimous, powerful, happy, for a people amiable, frivolous and miserable; in a word, all the virtues and miracles of a Republic…..”

M. Robespierre (1794)

Worry01 on June 11, 2013 at 12:40 pm

The point about Muslimphilia is very important. I agree with your points about the program, and that it is important to our security. But at the same time, the bipartisan glorification of Muslim behavior which clearly undermines our security detracts from the credibility of the program and those who defend it. Likewise, the penetration of governmental bodies by Muslims who threaten our security also undermines the credibility of the program’s defenders, as does the bipartisan glorification of the new immigration-monstrosity bill.

While I defend the PRISM program, it would have more credibility of the behavior of the Republicans and Democrats in other respects were more consistent with our national security as well.

Little Al on June 11, 2013 at 12:42 pm

Debbie,

I think that you’ve got me pegged wrong. I fully believe that Bush was extremely bad and protected the Muslims. He redacted references to them in the 9/11 report and he allowed all the Bin Ladins to fly out of the country when all other flights were stopped.

It was very symbolic when Bush and Clinton spoke at the 9/11/10 memorial at the Islamic Crescent memorial in Pennsylvania and did not even mention Muslims. All the evil things that you indicated that Bush did are true. Bush killed his phony war on terror himself.

However, this administration has been extreme in its blatant and illegal attacks on political opponents and the gathering of all this sensitive data requires a level of trust that is not present.

Who do you believe is looking at the data to protect us? The famous but incompetent people, Homeland insecurity?

What do you think is the solution?

Facts of Life on June 11, 2013 at 12:47 pm

The Snowden to Manning comparisons is a bit over-the-top in the usual Debbie style, but she has a great point. There was nothing unconstitutional about the NSA surveillance. Disclosing that information was irresponsible and compromised our security.

Igor on June 11, 2013 at 1:07 pm

Okayyyyyyyy, let’s have a review here. As someone who VOTED FOR BUSH but DID HAVE HIS CELL PHONE TAPPED in mid-2002 or ’03, I can give a little perspective here. I CANNOT explain many details of the phone tapping, except I am SURE it was because a now deceased relative had the exact same name as a famous terror suspect. I cannot give any more information than that, because it would set me or others up for identity theft, since giving full names, birth dates, etc., on the internet is risky business.

I had suspected something was wrong for two weeks, because whenever I put my cell phone to my ear, PRIOR to punching in any numbers or using it for any reason, I would hear noises, even things that sounded like clipped voices. One night, in a very quiet room at a friend’s apartment, I put my phone to my ear and heard men talking. I exclaimed “oh, shit,” then clapped my hand over my mouth. One of the men then told everybody to shut up.

I ran to the next room to tell my friends and also told them I didn’t really care because of that relative’s name. I figured they were cross referencing everyone related to anyone who had the same name as that terrorist. Since I am not a criminal, and do not discuss things on the phone that would be of a prosecutorial nature, I was not that worried. While I didn’t necessarily LIKE what was going on, no criminal, not much worry, unless the government was going to trump up a case on me. That CAN happen, as it did in Nazi Germany and the old Soviet Union.

The following day I changed my cell phone number. I also had an apartment in Queens at the time. If any of my other activities or land line were being monitored, I never discovered those things. Something had evidently gone wrong with their tapping equipment as regards my cell phone, which allowed me to hear them as well.

So, the review:

(i) Jesus rightfully said that God is not the author of confusion. If this thread and what is going on in the world is not evidence of a lot of confusion, you are either not alive or not paying attention if you are.;
(ii) I have been calling both parties Demmicans and Republicrats since early 1996, LONG before I heard of Mike Savage who claims he’s been saying it since 1994. At any rate, if you think we have a two party system, and that anyone in Washington believes they are actually our employees, rather than the elite rulers they behave like, you are either not alive, or not paying attention.;
(iii) I voted for Dubya holding my nose, because as a friend and I discussed during the summer of 2000, I did NOT want The Great StainMaker’s vice president becoming Commander-In-Chief. I likened the presidential candidate scene as being akin to the heavyweight division after the departure of Ali, Frazier and a couple others, not really much to choose from.;

While I do not share Debbie’s seeming total disdain for certain famous “conservative” figures, I trust her far more. I have only been reading this web site for a little over five months, but have to admit, Debbie has put me wise to some little details which count for a lot. If we believe in the adage of “follow the money,” then we must be suspect of certain prominent figures and politicians.

Debbie does not have a national listening audience of 8, 10, or 23 million, doesn’t even have a show anymore. Debbie is not a household word, and has seemingly been marginalized, as I don’t know of any major TV appearances by her in several years. Unless Debbie is getting tens of millions of secret dollars to pound a certain drum, I’m going to continue to give her the benefit of the doubt above anyone else.

Although I do believe that many others say and teach things of value, we can not forget that being beholden to certain special interests makes their stance on some issues suspect. While someone may have the ability to give wonderful lessons on citizenship or the constitution, making me feel as though I were in a classroom listening to their show, I’ll go with Debbie when she says beware of their position on certain issues or people they favor.

For the record, I do DESPIIIIIISE The Community Organizer-In-Chief. I DO believe his “presidency” is illegitimate, that he is a plant, a puppet of George Soros and Co., a left wing doctrinaire. I DO believe he is here for the express purpose of finishing the destruction of what Bob Grant has rightfully referred to for so long as “this once great republic.”

I DO believe that the two billion hollow point rounds and 2,700 light armored tanks are for us on this web site, and those like us. I DO believe Rush when he says The Golfer-In-Chief will tolerate NO opposition and seek to suppress everyone and everything that gets in his way. I DO believe that the suggestion of a nationalized youthful militia spoken of by The Vacationer-In-Chief on the campaign trail prior to his first term is something akin to the Hitler Youth corps.

BUT, my CELL PHONE, was tapped by the Bush administration, a decade ago, a man I voted for. And while I know why, and while it was sort of “okay” with me, we must take a breath, and keep perspective. SATAN, is the only one benefiting here people, and THAT is the salient point. The TRUE No. 1 enemy of the ENTIRE human race is causing all kinds of distractions and unseemly alliances, all for HIS purpose. As Mike Savage likes to say, there are people who like to create distractions, watch what this hand is doing, while the other, . . .

puts the knife in your back. And AGAIN, I quote the words that grow ever wiser by the day, from the late Jimmy Hoffa.

“Sooner or later, everybody does business with everybody.”

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on June 11, 2013 at 1:25 pm

    Nice piece, Debbie.

    Alfredo, I’ll send you one of my aluminum foil hats. They work wonders. I am digging up Hoffa bones all over my yard and it may be a while before I get it in the mail.

    Visteo on June 11, 2013 at 2:07 pm

      Heyyyyy Visteo, das eh goo’ won, meng, joo berry fawny guy. Bah don’ joo worry bou’ sen’ me no hat, because I go’ won wheng I joosed to wash Captain Video wees Ralph Kramden goo’ boddy Ed Norton.

      Alfredo from Puerto Rico on June 11, 2013 at 9:09 pm

Ask yourself this: If this all-powerful spying method works so well to protect us why didn’t it stop the Tsarnaev brothers, Nidal Hassan, Benghazi? The NSA spying complex is an overly powerful tool! It has an enormous potential but its goodness and badness are wholly dependent on its wielder. This government, the current wielder of the tool, has already proven they will use any and all tools at their disposal to crush whoever THEY consider to be THEIR enemies (Tea partiers, pro-lifers, anyone). What would make us think they won’t use it against us? What would make us think the next government will be any more virtuous than this one? Why would we be so willing to give away our most precious possession, our freedom, to get the illusion of a safety that doesn’t exist?

Froggey 1 on June 11, 2013 at 1:46 pm

just collecting data on all americans with out a warrant whether they look at it or not is still a violation of the fourth amendment.bongo collected phone,credit card and e-mails information on millions of us.why?

bruce on June 11, 2013 at 1:46 pm

Data-mining is looking at seemingly random data – like chatter, to find identifiable patterns. Wouldn’t you like to know what Islamic terrorists are up to?

The partisan hypocrites on the Right oppose the program entirely for partisan reasons and not because its an abuse of government power. They’re opposed to anything that keeps us safe because Obama might benefit politically from it.

Here’s a tip: the Constitution isn’t a suicide pact. For example, learning what the Tsarnaev brothers were up to would have saved innocent American lives. Rand Paul says that’s a violation of their “constitutional rights.” He’s more concerned with protecting their liberties than with protecting the life and limb of the American people.

He says “no” to data mining on account of them. I say “yes” to it because I believe our national security and the safety of fellow Americans comes first! This should be an easy call to make. Why isn’t it for those on the Right that have decided that a President can’t keep us from danger because he has the wrong party letter beside his name?

This is not a defense of Obama – there’s a lot on which he can be legitimately criticized including his love of Islam but to say he’s wrong on everything he’s currently running, including a program began under Bush – which conservatives of the time supported, is hypocrisy of the highest order. Our country needs as Debbie wrote people with principles – not people for whom the party label comes first.

NormanF on June 11, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    I agree with you completely. Conservatives are making fools of themselves.

    Laura on June 11, 2013 at 4:12 pm

Debbie,
They are lying to you again. EVERYTHING is recorded and scanned by computer for key words. Selected converations are pulled for review/translation by human security people. ALL electronic media is handled this way, both foreign and domestic: Telephone, cellphone fax, skype, E-mail, texting, facbook, chatgroups, all internet servers, etc etc. The NSA has been doing this for many many years, so this is really nothing new.

Paul on June 11, 2013 at 1:55 pm

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