November 6, 2013, - 1:58 pm

Animal Rights Anti-Horsemeat Coalition Wins Again: Jihad Against Eating Horse

By Debbie Schlussel

The jihad against horse meat continues with the same fervor as the Muslim jihad against pigs and Mohammed cartoons. And now it’s clogging our federal courts for no legitimate reason.

horsemeat

I like and have ridden horses. I don’t eat horse meat and never would even if I could because it isn’t kosher and the idea is absolutely disgusting and stomach-turning to me. But there is absolutely no reason whatsoever why Americans should be barred from slaughtering horses for the purpose of consumption, just because the idea of it repels me and others. There are no sacred cows. And there aren’t any sacred horses, either. And, by the way, I’ve owned horsehair boots and belts. And I don’t think twice about it. Animals–all of them–were made to serve man. Anyone who believes otherwise is an animal rights crazy. It’s one thing to torture animals. I’m against that as any decent human is. It’s entirely another to slaughter them for food.

I’ve written about this before. But, now, the fight against horse meat is front and center in federal court in New Mexico. Last week, Federal Judge Christina Armijo threw out a lawsuit filed by the Humane Society to halt inspection of horses for slaughter. The suit was an attempt to block the slaughter of horses for meat and consumption purposes. But, this week, the Humane Society got a Federal Appeals Court to issue a restraining order, preventing plants in Missouri and New Mexico from proceeding with the inspections and slaughter.










In 2006, Congress prevented the slaughter of horses for meat by banning the U.S. Department of Agriculture from inspecting horse slaughter plants. But in 2011, Congress omitted that language from the USDA funding bill, and animal rights activists and horse lovers have been fighting the slaughter of horses for meat ever since, through ridiculous litigation.

Why is a horse any different from a chicken whose wings you eat at a restaurant or that turkey you might be eating on Thanksgiving? Why is it any different from a cow from which that steak you might have eaten emanates? Why is it different from the salmon or tuna you eat? It isn’t. Horses are not special.

Yes, I get that people who ride horses love them like a member of the family. I get that America has a history of humanizing horses, such as “Mr. Ed” and so on. And perhaps it goes back to the American history of Western movies and Western culture in which horses play a big part. But horses aren’t any different from any other animal that humans consume. I wouldn’t eat it, but I believe in your freedom to do so.

And I believe in the freedom of American businessmen to open horse slaughtering plants and creating jobs for Americans (hopefully not illegal aliens, but they’ll likely work at those plants, too). America exports almost 160,000 horses a year to Mexico and other locations for slaughter. Those are American jobs going to Mexican and other foreign slaughterhouses and meat packing joints. It is intellectually dishonest to say, “No, we won’t allow the slaughter of horses here because we find it despicable,” but then ship those horses elsewhere where they will be slaughtered. America has an excess of wild horses roaming around without enough food. It is only logical to slaughter some of them for meat purposes, rather than allow them to starve to death (which is far less humane).

I’m not a veterinarian, but I highly doubt that horses get diseases or present health risks that aren’t present in any other kind of animal meat that we do allow to be slaughtered and processed here. The lawsuit by the Humane Society pretends otherwise–that horses are a higher life form or different life form from all other animals. They aren’t.

Unfortunately, horse lovers and animal rights activists are so rabidly against the idea of slaughtering horses, that there is no reasoning with them.

Their opposition to the slaughter of horses for meat is irrational. It’s ridiculous. And it’s time we allowed the slaughter of horses in America for food.

Anything less is a victory for the animal rights nuts.

The opposition to horse slaughter isn’t a sign of civilization. It’s a sign of idiots and their hysterics running the show.

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118 Responses

They’ve temporarily blocked the humane slaughter of these horses but only temporarily. In the mean time these horses will suffer because they will not be cared for and may not be well fed. This causes the horses to suffer and the slaughter house to lose money and possibly jobs. The article ridiculously states that cows stand still to be slaughtered and horses do not. Thus it is okay to slaughter cows. Cows do not stand still, no animal stands still for this! The humane society should be honest in their statements.

Karen on November 6, 2013 at 3:03 pm

Deb:

You know what I always say: “It’s always the stinkin’ money.”

I’d bet there are megabucks lobbying contributions backing “the animal rights crazies” from the swine, poultry, fish, and beef producers. They don’t want competition.

There is NO Santa Claus on November 6, 2013 at 3:15 pm

Wilbur, I’m saved!

There’s always the glue factory, Ed.

Jonathan e. Grant on November 6, 2013 at 3:18 pm

Horses are especially tasty encrusted with peanuts.

skzion on November 6, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    sk: Would the crusading get out of my lane nutters appreciate the humor of your comment?—They would not! And those not knowing a horse from a donkey would consider your comment quite brayzin!

    lee of the lower case "l" on November 6, 2013 at 7:25 pm

    “crushed peanuts”

    LOL! I read it twice before I finally got it.

    DS_ROCKS! on November 6, 2013 at 7:57 pm

Great piece Debbie, I do agree with just about everything you wrote in this article that you published here, now since I’m like you DS of not eating horsemeat, but at the sametime, if anyone in this country wants to eat horsemeat, that is their right to do so, rather us being collectivists and depriving them from not eating what they like.

Even though I’m against the slaughter of horses for meat, I do at the very same recognize that plants that slaughter’s livestock for foods for business purposes to create and increase jobs, etc. In that regard, I am a capitalist, rather than a collectivist communist or socialist. As I’ve said at the beginning of my comment, that I personally am NOT going to eat horsemeat, I’d rather starve or find something else to eat.

“A nation is defined by its borders, language & culture!”

Sean R. on November 6, 2013 at 4:05 pm

I guess horses are more sacred than Jews to some of these people.

Little Al on November 6, 2013 at 4:06 pm

The slaughter house side should take on some Native Americans (Indian in the old days !!) as business partners. Apache, I should think. Then they should go after the animal nuts for trying to interfere with the native American’s historical and traditional rights.

RA2216 on November 6, 2013 at 4:10 pm

Hey, no way am I going to knowingly eat Trigger. Nor Fido nor Felix, either. That’s just too close to home.

On the belief that animals are here on Earth “to serve man,” I am reminded of the classic Twilight Zone episode, in which intellectually advanced aliens from another planet come to Earth to show them how to vastly improve their lives with amazing technological innovations undreamed of here. They even have a book called “To Serve Man,” written in their own language, that purportedly describes the ways in which the aliens can “serve man.”

With the shoe on the other foot, would the fact that the aliens are more advanced than us justify the end here?

Although the full original episode is currently available on YouTube–and it’s one of the best of the series–here is a clip of the chilling denouement. The power of the scene comes from Lloyd Bochner’s great acting, one of the underrated talents who worked in TV in days gone past (along with the TZ music). To get the full impact, you have to watch the whole episode, if you haven’t already seen it. There’s also a funny clip of Bochner at the end, “reprising” his role in one of the Naked Gun movies. But this short clip will give the idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIufLRpJYnI

Ralph Adamo on November 6, 2013 at 4:14 pm

    The are CANNIBALS among us – always have been.

    Anyone one remember SOYLENT GREEN?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IKVj4l5GU4

    Dennis on November 6, 2013 at 4:47 pm

    “To Serve Man” is based on a silly, obvious pun. It was parodied on of “The Simpsons” “Treehouse of Horror” episodes. You want a great “Twilight Zone” episode? Try “The Trouble with Templeton;” “The Big Tall Wish;” “In Praise of Pip;” “The Changing of the Guard;” “Spur of the Moment.”

    Miranda Rose Smith on November 7, 2013 at 6:07 am

      It was parodied on one of “The Simpsons” “Treehouse of Horror” episodes.

      Miranda Rose Smith on November 7, 2013 at 7:28 am

“Why is a horse any different from a chicken whose wings you eat at a restaurant or that turkey you might be eating on Thanksgiving? Why is it any different from a cow from which that steak you might have eaten emanates? Why is it different from the salmon or tuna you eat? It isn’t. Horses are not special.”

I agree 100% with the above, but if it’s not qualified, it leads to actions that are insidious: namely, eating of dogs and exotics.

Dogs and humans have had a symbiotic relationship for 50,000 to 100,00o years and dogs were directly responsible for our ascent as a dominant species. The fact that some Asian cultures that eat dog meat could not think of a better use for them other than foe food does not diminish dogs’ status, but rather the Asians’.

Secondly, the use of exotics such as big cats, elephants, rhinos, etc. for the idiotic practice of consuming the horns or penises as a virility-enhancing medicine again has the same implication for the predominantly Asian cultures that use them for these purposes.

As civilized human beings, we have a responsibility to not turn a blind eye to the decimation of entire species for these inane reasons simply because some cultures are too stupid or indifferent.

Likewise, dogs, who helped us to come out of caves and be able to establish permanent civilizations because of agriculture and livestock (guarding us against vermin and protecting herds, respectively) should be afforded special status even above the vital roles they fulfilled in recent history such as protecting our homes and families, search and rescue, and all working and companion capacities.

Eating a dog or a ground tiger penis is not the same as, say, eating a chicken or a horse.

DS_ROCKS! on November 6, 2013 at 4:15 pm

    That’s right DS_Rocks.

    I work with animals and I have seen over the years how they are not, sometimes as people say (they don’t have a soul or anthropomorphizing them is not truthful) and they love and are sweet and are grateful and sensitive.

    I have also seen that as animals, RESPECT must be given to their nature. When I get out of my animal awareness mode, I have made stupid mistakes and have gotten bit. It’s always important to remember they are animals by nature and not humans.

    But I am not just gonna side with dogs. There are many other animals that fall into that example as well. Depends on the animals and the bond and the person handling them.

    American horses are in crisis and if people care they’ll look for good charities to help now. They need the help now more than ever and as Karen stated above, even without the ban they still suffer.

    Ralph, I love that episode of Twilight Zone. That’s one of the best ever!

    Skunky on November 6, 2013 at 5:31 pm

      skunky: I’m a little biased toward dogs having my life and limb saved by two on different occasions when one alerted us to a fire that had started in the kitchen waste basket in the middle of the night and another one stepping in front of me to protect me from a savage pitbull that was charging me, respectively.

      The fact that muslims view dogs and especially black dogs as haram (or whatever their moonbat prophet mandated) also makes them extra special to me.

      When I was a young idealist I used to have mixed feelings about eating animals until I read Ben Franklin’s autobiography where he described his epiphany on the subject while working on a fishing boat and found smaller fishes in the stomachs of bugger fishes. He felt that it showed that God was okay with eating animals, although he never did eat any meat other than fish.

      i sort of extrapolated the same ideal, only going one step further and considering all predatory animals in the wild and therefore am okay with eating all meats, but I do stick to almost exclusively kosher beef and Foster Farms chicken because I feel they’re killed more humanely (Foster Farms out here in California got a Humane Society endorsement which I applaud.)

      P.S. Watched the last Oz flick, “Lantana”, and thought it was superb. Kept me engaged every moment, but did again let me down at the very end. It was more of a showcase for brilliant Aussie acting rather than a plotted script IMO. Reminded me of a “Magnolia” style except that one had the silly frogs sort of tying everyone together.

      I also recognized Barbra Hershey’s husband, “Casanova Frankenstein” from “Mystery Men” but it took for about half the movie to figure out where I’d seen him.

      DS_ROCKS! on November 6, 2013 at 7:56 pm

        That’s lovely, DSR! There is nothing better than a man who loves his dogs. (You would hate that China video/pictures but even thou’ I didn’t have the emotional currency that day I was so angry I sent the message out. Now it’s haunting me as things like that are wont to do).

        I have saved a few pets so I know the opposite feeling. Nothing gives me more joy than saving a pet close to death or helping them get over illnesses and maladies.

        Eating meat is a truly personal choice. It was nagging me so I chose to stop and I wondered why I waited so long. The food I eat is better tasting than the carnivorous meals I used to have. It’s so far removed from the slaughterhouse I never blame people for choosing to indulge. It’s ok, biblically too. When I only ate chicken & turkey I loved getting kosher brands…I felt better about it. But now I abstain 100% and am happy with it.

        (I am so pleased you liked “Lantana”. I have movie cred with you now! :D Did you know that a lantana is a thick, thorny bush that is found in Australia (hence, the title)? I was blown away when I found out Anthony LaPaglia was Australian! I always thought he was an Italian Yank. When he spoke I knew he was ridgy-didge Aussie as his accent was superb! The actor who played the cuckold husband has lots of range too. He plays the dork hubby in the hilarious Oz series “Kath & Kim” (one of my favs…). So glad you liked it. Now watch the Croatian film “The Trap”. That is one of my fav films EVER! :D )

        Skunky on November 6, 2013 at 8:19 pm

A disproportionate amount of these SciFi episodes from the 50s were initiated by pro-Commie leftists, getting in their digs against the United States. For a few years they couldn’t do directly like they are doing today, so they utilized Westerns like High Noon, various films noir, and, not least, science fiction — aliens of one kind or another teaching the evil capitalists and red baiters how to do better.

Little Al on November 6, 2013 at 4:21 pm

Ethically speaking, I see no difference in eating a horse (which provided the much needed transportation that helped the human side of the earth expand, explore and fight more efficiently) or a dog. I agree about the exotics tho.

If you have spent any time eating at the street food stalls you will find all over SE Asia, its very likely you have eaten, dog, probably rat, possibly monkey, and many other things one mostly don’t want to think about. After all rattle snake tastes just like chicken. lol

RA2216 on November 6, 2013 at 4:54 pm

    “rattle snake tastes just like chicken.”

    It actually tastes nothing like chicken. It tastes slightly fishy, more akin to frog’s legs.

    DS_ROCKS! on November 6, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    “Ethically speaking, I see no difference in eating a horse …or a dog.”

    Sure. Lots of people feel the same way. It just means you’re among the Asian mindset that I referenced in my post.

    It reminds me of the ’70s poster that they used to sell in those mall shops:

    “Eat sh*t – 50,000,000,000 flies can’t be wrong.”

    DS_ROCKS! on November 6, 2013 at 5:33 pm

To conclude that such episodes as “To Serve Man” and the Twilight Zone series and other sci-fi classics of that era, e.g., “The Day The Earth Stood Still,” “Invasion of the Body Snatchers,” and “Incredible Shrinking Man” are works of Communists and anti-American is over the top and off-base. Yes, of course, they have “messages” within them, and trhat’s why they resonated so strongly with the American public at the time of their release. But those messages weren’t communist ones.

The message of “To Serve Man” is that man is not necessarily the center of the Universe. The writer of the original short story on which the episode was based was written by Damon Knight, and he was a master story craftsman, and there’s no evidence of any pro-communist stance in hi writings, no matter how far you want to stretch things.

And Rod Serling, the creator of The Twilight Zone, although a liberal (as that term was used in the 1950s and 1960s), was far from a communist. And being anti-totalitarian does not make you a communist. If I were to encapsulate Serling’s philosphy that enfuses his works, I’d use his own words: “the ultimate obscenity is not caring, not doing something about what you feel, not feeling! Just drawing back and drawing in; becoming narcissistic.” That theme is evident in “To Serve Man,” were the idea is presented that man is not necessarily the center of the Universe.

And that theme, by the way, is important today, and would resonate strongly with the public if presented today in an interesting and exciting format. In fact, two fine movies from yesteryear, “Incredible Shrinking Man” and “Fantastic Voyage” would be hugely successful if remade today (with today’s better generation special effects).

That idea has not escaped Hollywood, and, it turns out, there are plans to remake “Incredible Shrinking Man.” Richard Matheson, who wrote the original has been engaged to write the remake. I predict that it will be a hit.

Matheson is one of the great sci-fi writers of all time, and like his late friend, author Ray Bradbury, he’s created sci-fi, futuristic masterworks that resonate with the public. Yes, they contain “messages” and themes about our current life right here and now, and that’s why they click so well. But to say that those message are pro-communist or anti-American is more than a stretch.

Ralph Adamo on November 6, 2013 at 5:02 pm

    Correction: Richard Matheson, sadly died earlier this year. His son, who was working with him on the new screenplay, will probably finish it.

    Ralph Adamo on November 6, 2013 at 5:12 pm

    Actually, Rod Serling was very much an anti-communist. Does anyone remember the episode of The Twilight Zone where Peter Falk played a character akin to Fidel Castro? Even had the beard and the cigar.

    People, do not confuse classical liberalism with communism. That is what some people did in the early 1950′s, and it destroyed the anti-communist movement. In fact, Rod Serling even had an episode about that, too, where people were falsely accusing each other of being aliens because the power in the community was randomly going off and on. Meanwhile the aliens (who were controlling the power) stood on a hill and said to each other, “We don’t have destroy them. They will destroy each other.”

    However, if anyone wants to skin and eat one of today’s liberals, who are communists, go ahead. You have my blessings. Just don’t tell PETA or the Humane Society.

    Jonathan E. Grant on November 6, 2013 at 8:26 pm

      Actually, Rod Serling was very much an anti-communist. Does anyone remember the episode of The Twilight Zone where Peter Falk played a character akin to Fidel Castro? Even had the beard and the cigar.

      You bet I do!!!!It makes its anti-Communist, and anti-romanticizing Communists point with a sledgehammer.

      Miranda Rose Smith on November 7, 2013 at 9:50 am

        It makes its anti-Communist, and anti-romantacizing Communists, point with a sledgehammer. Forgot the second comma. Sorry.

        Miranda Rose Smith on November 7, 2013 at 9:53 am

    Perhaps they weren’t communist. That is a stretch. LIBERAL yes.

    The series that just completed UNDER THE DOME is very definitely a leftist radical mudslinging story aimed at the Bush presidency. No, I’m not making that up. Look it up. Stephen King said that the EVIL one in the show is Bush, and he goes on to explain the comparisons of the other actors to his assinine liberal views. I could not watch the show again after I learned that – directly from his mouth.

    The old shows were trying to convey a message. These new shows are only out to denigrate certain people or belief systems.

    mariahwwa on November 7, 2013 at 3:14 am

Remember what Louis Mayer said:

“If I want to send a message, I’ll go to Western Union.”

The emphasis on ‘ordinary people’ rather than heroes, and rather than casting the rich in a sympathetic light, was a tactic used by Communists. Not everyone who did this was a Communist, but they encouraged and supported this approach, and had a lot of influence.

Why weren’t there more movies about how we in the United States went to other planets to help others? Why was it always aliens coming here to help or educate us? Duuuhhhh

You also have to improve your reading comprehension. I said ‘a disproportionate amount’. That does not mean every single ‘work’. But why were there so many science fiction dramatizations about how we learned from others, rather than movies about how we aided victims of left-wing totalitarianism throughout the world” It was subtle, but that is the most effective kind of propaganda. It apparently resonates half a century later.

Little Al on November 6, 2013 at 5:16 pm

I’m an animal rights crazy. I would never eat horses and I think it’s an individual’s right to chose to eat meat or not. I prefer not to and I enjoy it, but that is for each individual to decide.

Horses are not slaughtered humanely. I am against Americans eating horses (we really don’t…Mexicans love to, thou’…) but I don’t have much power in the matter. Truth is there is no easy answer for American horses. They suffer with the slaughter ban (overpopulated and they die of agonizing hunger and thirst) and they suffer to be consumed for meat (anal probed to move them to be slaughtered and beaten to death…horses are sensitive animals…). I am against animal cruelty, I don’t have much patience for Vegans (although I do admire them from abstaining) and it’s difficult (an annoying) to be a vegan. It’s their personalities I detest most and I see many as I go to many vegan/vegetarian joints these days.

Personally, I can’t bear animal cruelty. That’s just me. I am not asking anyone else to forgo their diet desires for my sensitivity. I am not so hard on the matter because the slaughterhouse experience is so far removed from the plate (and I don’t fault people for that…I do like the taste of meat but have decided not to indulge for MY personal reasons!).

This is Libtarded as I get because Libtards do not corner the market on animal sensitivity. You either have it or don’t and I have it. I was more hardline when I was Liberal (which is embarrassing to think about…), but I believe in freedom of choice and believe in the biblical reason to consume meat but I don’t want to anymore.

And I saw a story (with brutal pictures) this week that is haunting me about a group of Chinese men beating to death 2 dogs (they were big and looked like Chow-Chows) because they walked into their city. I don’t want to be like the heartless Chinese.

Many Conservatives love animals and we are not embarrassed by it. I will never be. Ever.

(If you think about the animals that ARE consumed in USA they are not predators like a lion…horses, cows, chickens and pigs don’t take down other animals to eat…this, personally put it in perspective for ME. I believe in the freedom of choice so if it’s not for you, it’s not for you. Many people are outraged by the horse slaughter and they are meat eaters.)

Skunky on November 6, 2013 at 5:17 pm

This can be looked at inductively as well as deductively. We know the mindset of those making movies and ‘art’ of various kinds today. Does anyone really think that the people doing this type of work 50-60 years ago were that different from those today? Because of the times, these elitists could not show vomiting, masturbation, glorification of Islam or Communism, so these poor, alienated people used the more indirect means available to them. It is a testament to the strength of their brainwashing, and the obfuscation of the media that it is necessary to even have to remind people of these things today.

Little Al on November 6, 2013 at 5:21 pm

All this talk about eating horse is making me hungry for McDonalds.

CornCoLeo on November 6, 2013 at 5:37 pm

You don’t name any specifics, Little Al, but you nonetheless have no problem getting out the broad tar brush. I’ve name several of the classics of the era. And insofar as politics is concerned, the 1956 film version of “Invasion of the Body Snatchers” was interpreted by some critics at the time and even today as an anti-Communist allegory. But I believe that horror novelist Dean Koontz best summed up the film’s enduring appeal in the book “They’re Here…Invasion of the Body Snatchers: A Tribute”:

“Many of us spend the evening hours online, staring at a screen rather than at human faces, communicating without the profound nuances of human voices and facial expressions, seeking sympathy and tenderness without the need to touch. All the while, through our bones creeps the persistent feeling that we are losing our humanity. No wonder we still respond to Don Siegel’s Invasion of the Body Snatchers so powerfully, even more than forty years after its initial release.”

And Louis B. Mayer was a great businessman, but he was no expert on stories and writing craftsmanship. But any good fiction writer will tell you that of course a good story has a message. The best writers, though, don’t hit you over the head with it.

Ralph Adamo on November 6, 2013 at 5:45 pm

Invasion of the Body Snatchers is kind of like a Rohrsarch test. There are multiple, multiple interpretations, and Koontz’s is just one of them. I’m not going to waste time and space going over all of them, but they are numerous.

Mayer might not have been such an expert, but Irving Thalberg was, and in spite of occasional skirmishes, he shared Mayer’s basic philosophies and political outlook.

Messages? I’d rather see a pro-American message than the predominant garbage we’ve been subjected to, almost non-stop for so many decades. We could use a few more movies like Gone With the Wind, or Ninotchka today. At least before the 60s, there was some countervailing influence.

And your imagery? Using a broad tar brush? Of course I was speaking in general terms. It is hard not to do that when making brief comments on a blog like this. I thought left-wing penetration of Hollywood and TV (where a lot of the Commies went after being kicked out of Hollywood in the postwar period) would be obvious to most readers of this site.

But for those who might want to learn a little more about left-wing influence in Hollywood during the 30s and 40s, and how it was combatted, it is worth reading the new book by Donald T Critchlow (the biographer of Phyllis Schlafly), entitled When Hollywood was Right.

Little Al on November 6, 2013 at 6:22 pm

This isn’t about horses, but I read Ralph’s message about Richard Matheson passing away. I’m sorry to hear about his death. He was a wonderful writer. He helped write the original screenplay along with Jeff Rice for the TV movie ‘The Night Stalker’ starring Darrin Mcgavin and Simon Oakland. It was a great movie along with the TV series that followed.

Peter on November 6, 2013 at 6:42 pm

Thank God someone with some common sense, I have never heard of you but this popped into my Google Alert and I’m thankful I paid attention.

I talk to people everyday about this issue and the majority, once informed believe exactly like you do. These Animal Rights Zealots try to BS folks into believing they are the majority

Thanks again

Dave Duquette on November 6, 2013 at 7:17 pm

Unfortunately, the animal rights zealots have been the squeaky wheel getting the oil. Thank you for helping bring common sense and pragmatism into the mainstream, Ms. Schlussel!!

Anna on November 6, 2013 at 7:26 pm

Both Ralph Adamo & Little Al have provided reading and reading worthy comments.

May neither of them ever wish the other “To the Cornfield”.

lee of the lower case "l" on November 6, 2013 at 7:29 pm

    Make that “… reading and re-reading…

    lee of the lower case "l" on November 6, 2013 at 7:34 pm

    Ha-ha, Lee. Nicely put. You obviously know your TZ.

    Ralph Adamo on November 6, 2013 at 10:04 pm

    Vickory Eckoff is in NO way a truth teller. She lies just like her would be boyfriend Wayne Pacelle. She is aligned with the EWA which is an even bigger bunch of hacks.

    Dave Duquette on November 6, 2013 at 8:22 pm

      Tsk Tsk Tsk Dave, “Vickery lies and John Holland is a hack.” Dave you couldn’t even begin to fathom and or duplicate the level of intelligence and work required to accurately report on this issue the way Vickery has, nor conduct the studies and peer reviewed papers that John Holland has and that EWA has sponsored and participated with.

      Jo-Claire Corcoran on November 6, 2013 at 10:30 pm

I am hungry now. ;)

Worry01 on November 6, 2013 at 8:15 pm

“Wilbur, why are you cutting away my loins?”

“Well Ed, I have some very important Japanese clients coming over for dinner tonight and I do not want to disappoint them.”

Okay, here is another one.

A man stops at a farmer’s fence and sees a three legged pig. He asks the farmer, “What happened to your pig?”

The farmer answers, “Well, it’s like this. I was plowing the fields, and I hit a rut and my tractor toppled over on me. Timothy, my pig, came running up, saw my predicament, and started digging me out with his front legs. He then grabbed me by the collar, and pulled me out from under the tractor. He saw I was bleeding badly, so hethen went into the house, and dialed 9-1-1.”

The man at the fence then asked, “Wow, but why does he only have three legs?”

The farmer, looking indignant said, “Well, heck, that pig saved my life! You don’t eat an animal like that all at once.”

Jonathan E. Grant on November 6, 2013 at 8:31 pm

I like it when people are scared. They begin the name calling. Must be terrible to live that scared. Of course, all the fear mongering that goes along with it.

Mike on November 6, 2013 at 8:40 pm

So what is the difference? Well for one, we don’t raise horses for food in this country under the food safety standards we raise food animals. As such we medicate our horses differently than animals raised for food.

The US horses which go to slaughter are sport performance horses, race horses, family pets, etc., but not food. I have three OTTBs in my barn, all three have had bute, one just yesterday because she got injured and the vet gave her injections of both bute and banamine. Both of which are banned from use in ANY animal intended for human consumption. He also prescribed nitro furazone, which is also banned from use in animals intended for human consumption.

Bute is amongst the most commonly prescribed medications for horses in this country. It’s banned from any animal intended for human consumption because it’s not safe for those humans consuming. Oh and the half life of bute…. and “withdrawal rates” only works for performance issues, but not consumption. Bute’s metabolites actually continue to increase after consumption, even though the bute it’self decreases in the blood stream, the metabolites are then stored in the kidneys and in the muscle tissue, it is a re-uptake drug which means at time of injury or stress the metabolites will leak back into the muscle tissues around old injuries etc.

Now I’m still waiting for someone in the beef industry to explain to me how it’s ok to slaughter an animal not raised as food for human consumption, while the rest of the animals raised with the intention of human consumption must be raised under strict food safety regulations.

Jo-Claire Corcoran on November 6, 2013 at 9:19 pm

Horses are starving to death in New Mexico because the owners can’t afford to feed them. They are literally giving horses away but few can afford to take care of them. The state has a staggering unemployment rate, businesses are moving out, and many residents are forced to look elsewhere for work. I think it “passed” Mississippi for being the poorest state in the nation. My home is zoned for horses and there is only one home in the subdivision with horses anymore. I am working in Arizona and sending money home to keep the family afloat. I have a little Pigmy goat, fortunately he doesn’t eat much hay, it’s over $10 a bale.

Doug on November 6, 2013 at 9:22 pm

Looks like the “United Horseturds” and at least one of their fearless leaders have made their way here.
Just the mention of horse slaughter can lure them, salivating, out of their bat cave.

KMG on November 6, 2013 at 10:08 pm

We do not want the proposed horse slaughter plants to open. Horses being shipped for slaughter are not required to have health certificates. This means all types of diseases from out of state horses could enter from another state without a good traceable source.
Furthermore, there are over 100 equine drugs that we (the collective horse owners) give our horses that make them unfit for human consumption. The USDA has no business getting mixed up in this.
Additionally, this plant would cost U.S. taxpayers $400,000.00 per year for the USDA inspections, and the meat would be shipped overseas.
Also, horse owners would be worried about horse thieves stealing horses in the surrounding area for slaughter, especially in this economy.
What’s more, toxic waste from these plants could contaminate the entire areas.
Additionally, breeders with stallions could have their business suppressed as people with mares would not want to send them to a breeder near a slaughter house for fear of theft and disease.
Finally, slaughter plants want the healthy horses and never the old or sick horses. These are horses that could benefit the community as therapy horses for children and veterans, or as police mounts.

morgansinkc on November 6, 2013 at 10:24 pm

Please sign the petition to Ban Equine Slaughter in Gallatin, Missouri, and share:

http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/ban-horse-slaughter-in

morgansinkc on November 6, 2013 at 10:25 pm

    morgansinc, what wine should I serve with horse?

    skzion on November 7, 2013 at 10:49 am

Nope not animal right crazy. I am against horse slaughter. And it isn’t tying the courts for no good reason. There’s a reason why the last three slaughter houses were finally shut down–2006/07.

Not once in your piece did I see a mention of the drugs that horses are exposed too almost on a daily basis. Worming meds–minimum 6 months quarantine BEFORE you can slaughter. Bute–permanently bans the horse from slaughter. Why? Because way back in the 40′s Pheynolbutazone was actually prescribed for humans with severe arthritis. Until they found out the really nasty side effects–like aplastic anemia, other cancers, kidney, liver failure. Bute doesn’t have a safe exposure. One teeny tiny drop exposes you leaving you open for those nasty side effects. There are approximately 135 drugs given to horses that create all kinds of quarantines if not banning them from the food chain. All those drugs are CLEARLY labeled right there on the box. NOT FOR ANIMALS INTENDED FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION.

Shall we talk about talk about race horse trainers that give their horses cobra venom? That’s right Patrick Biacone was suspended for a year for even having a syringe full of the stuff in his tack room. Then there other trainers who “don’t know what the drugs do, they just like to give them” (Rick Dutrow of Big Brown fame), others milkshake their horses.

Don’t bother telling me how Big Brown won’t ever be slaughtered because he won the Kentucky Derby. Ferdinand won the Derby and Japan didn’t hesitate to slaughter him.

Poor writing here. Not one bit of science to back up your claim.

Margaret on November 6, 2013 at 10:57 pm

It is difficult to read an article like this and the pro-horse comments that accompany it. Without doubt, the author and many of the commenters have no idea what they are talking about.

Ms. Schlussel says she would never eat horse meat and then advocates for others to do so. Well, Ms. Schlussel it is wise to know about which you speak. I am not an animal rightist, but I am an animal advocate who cares about the animals who you admit have been put into our care.

Horse slaughter is the most brutal and cruel procedure that could ever be used against an animal in our care. There are others like the stabbing of Dolphins by the Japanese, the boiling alive of dogs in Korea, the skinning alive of cats, dogs, and wildlife for fur in China, or even the bombing, steel trapping, drowning and other forms of killing of our US wildlife by our very own USDA/Wildlife Services.

It is difficult to figure out which is more gruesome and vicious, but horse slaughter wins for me. Why? Because horses are highly sensitive, intelligent, and sentient prey animals who have been domesticated to serve Man. They are fearful, flight prone and high spirited animals. A horse who is harmed by a human such as by horse tripping or rodeos or round ups takes years to restore any trust in humans.

On the other hand, there is no animal that is more loving, familial, perceptive, graceful, elegant and sacredly connected to the Almighty, as the Native Americans understand, than the horse.

The relationships between horses and their loving human companions is equal to that between dogs and cats and people. No companion animal should ever be betrayed by humans. They do not deserve mistreatment and certainly not slaughter.

Horses cannot be slaughtered humanely because of their temperament, flight response to danger, sensitivity, and intelligence. They know long before they are electrically prodded and stabbed forward into the kill chutes where they are headed, and they freak flailing their heads and making it impossible to drive a four-inch captive bolt into their heads stunning them. One shot is all that is allowed by the Humane Slaughter Act, but skulls found outside horse slaughter facilities have had as many as twenty holes in them. There is extensive evidence that many horses are gutted while conscious. This is torture and there is no other way to describe it. Don’t take my word for it – go to Youtube and look at the gross videos. If you have any sense of decency, you will be revolted.

Slaughter of any animal is crude and horrible. For evidence watch “If Slaughter Houses had Glass Walls, We would All Be Vegetarians” narrated by Paul McCartney.

Aside from the many drugs and chemicals given to horses which are not allowed to be given to animals to be consumed, these frightened horses are filled with Adrenalin and Cortisol, both of which are extremely harmful when consumed in the meat. Even the placid cows produce beef which is supposed to be examined for Adrenalin, because of the potential to be there in excess amounts.

So even if you have no morality or ethics toward our lovely companion animal, the horse, logically you should for your own mental and physical well being be dead set against consumption of horse meat.

Elaine Brown on November 6, 2013 at 11:18 pm

As usual you pro slaughterphiles get the facts wrong. Congress did not shut down slaughter down in 2005 it was by state laws that were enforced. There are not the large numbers of abandoned and starving horses. On and on, horse slaughter is not euthanasia Horses are fight or flight animals and in a slaughter situation there isn’t soft music playing and a quiet stall as you administer an injection to calm the animal before you inject the deadly drugs to euthanize it. There is brutality! There are underpaid workers that are trying to drive animals with prods and sticks. Horses that can hear the screams and smell the blood of other horses! They can’t restrain the horse in a squeeze chute or neck holds they would thrash and kick and could break their necks. And as you know when you try to put anything towards a horse’s face especially a terrified horse, they won’t hold their head still. Undercover videos and even 100′s of pictures taken at USDA inspected plants show

horrible scenes. Look them up on the internet. Studies done at previous slaughter plants have shown multiple punctures in skulls 4-5 even 10 or more. Temple Grandin the so called slaughter expert watched one of these videos with one draft horse hit 11 times before it would go down and was still alive when they hoisted it by the back leg to slit it’s throat. She said that the extra hits were insurance. When they turned the sound up on the video they could hear the killer saying “eh you’re not dead yet”? The people in these slaughter plants are under pressure to keep the line moving, go! go! go! There is no such thing as humane horse Euthanasia. Transport to Canada and Mexico has always been legal in fact they were doing it when the plants were open and since they closed. $laughter $ue says they would eliminate the long horrible ride for the horses by having a plant closer. Now she wants to take horses from the Yakima and Navajo tribes? They are over 1,000 miles away! You say horses are to serve man well that is more than can be said about you. Another worthless piece of journalism.

Curt Lukens on November 7, 2013 at 12:22 am

I am appalled at the irrational and illogical premise upon which this argument is based. While I personally feel that equine slaughter is immoral, that does not form the basis of my stance against it. What does is the knowledge that any equine slaughter facility is an ecological and economic disaster for the surrounding communities (e.g., http://www.kaufmanzoning.net). It is also costly to the public because the blood of horses, which contains antibiotics, does not break down and decompose; therefore, disposal of the remains poses a significant health hazard and a very real threat to the local water supply. Equine slaughter facilities do not create jobs, and they do not address the supposed “unwanted” horse population (created solely by overbreeding by those who know they can dump their excess at auctions). In addition, it has been well documented that the incidence of horse theft greatly increases when slaughter facilities are in operation. There is no US market and little overseas market for horse meat, and consistently, when polled, over 80% of all Americans are vehemently opposed to equine slaughter. There are numerous and substantial reasons why equine slaughter is only a losing proposition, and your pitiful piece of “journalism” misses the boat, misses the pier, and misses the entire coastline.

Ted Peeplover on November 7, 2013 at 1:19 am

    Peepi sez “the blood of horses, which contains antibiotics, does not break down and decompose . . . “

    This is the extent of the nonsense we get from the animal rights nuts. You think cattle don’t have even more antibiotics in them? How about human beings? Could anyone be stupid enough to think that antibiotic residue never itself breaks down?

    skzion on November 7, 2013 at 6:07 pm

My comment is directed towards Dave Duquette. Dave, you accuse Vickory Eckoff and Wayne Pacelle of being liars? May I remind you when you yourself told quite a tall tale on OPB. On air, when you were saying that bute was safe for human consumption you said that dairyman used bute in dairy cattle all the time and it was OK. That was a whopper of a lie you said on air. Don’t call others a liar when your slate isn’t exactly clean. Just so you don’t try and repeat that misinformation again on this thread should it come up, I will copy and post a refresher for you.****”The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is issuing an order prohibiting the extralabel use of phenylbutazone animal and human drugs in female dairy cattle 20 months of age or older. FDA is issuing this order based on evidence that extralabel use of phenylbutazone in these dairy cattle will likely cause an adverse event in humans. The Agency finds that such extralabel use presents a risk to the public health for the purposes of the Animal Medicinal Drug Use Clarification Act of 1994 (AMDUCA).”

Meredith Taylor on November 7, 2013 at 1:25 am

    Meredith sez:

    “****”The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is issuing an order prohibiting the extralabel use of phenylbutazone . . . in female dairy cattle 20 months of age or older . . . extralabel use . . . . extralabel use presents a risk to the public health for the purposes of the Animal Medicinal Drug Use Clarification Act of 1994 (AMDUCA).”

    This does not mean that this drug cannot be used, but it cannot be used except for what is it “labeled” for. And, it has many other specifics. What it does not say is that a dose or two sometime in the animal’s life is going to make the animal toxic.

    skzion on November 7, 2013 at 6:11 pm

      Bute is banned in food animals by the FDA, EU and CFIA. What that means is one dose in the animal’s lifetime and they are banned from entering the food chain. Banned means banned.

      vicki on November 8, 2013 at 12:57 am

Ok, here’s my take.

NO HUMAN CONSUMPTION!

I can see where they are needed – for those old, sick, physically incapacitated horses.

But I can tell you from my own experience and you said ‘I have ridden horses’, that gives you ZERO right to talk about this issue. It does not affect you.

If the killer buyers only bought the horses mentioned above, I, personally, would not be against it.

On a personal note, again….my horses will never, ever, ever go for slaughter. All my horses have died of either old age or something happened. They were not sent to the glue factory, alive or dead, they are buried here.

These animals give you decades of love and fun, and to think someone would just send them away is appalling to me.

But it’s not the slaughter itself that repulses me. It’s the conditions within the slaughter houses. I watched a video the other day of a man who was a past buyer/slaughterhouse manager who did a DEPOSITION (legal – so not photoshopped crap) about what he did and what happened within the slaughter houses. I couldn’t finish watching it. I got physically ill.

It’s no secret that they gouge the eyes out of horses that get unruly in the hopes that it will calm them down. REALLY? How stupid is that.

Killer buyers buy horses that 4-H kids could use as project horses when they can’t afford to pay $5000 or more for a horse.

So here’s the issue: If we have them, no human consumption, waiting periods (many horses are stolen and killed before the owner even knows they are gone – many horse owners are weekend riders – they don’t know they are missing until the weekend). Photos should be taken of every horse sent to slaughter. AT least there would be a record. HUMANE way to kill them…it is NOT humane and for you to say so is ignorant.

I’m not PETA, I just want things done right.

HOWEVER, these animals are family members. Some of us would choose them over certain family members. If that’s cold, so be it. Animals don’t turn on you, people do, even family.

And the mere thought of anyone eating a family pet is repulsive…..dog, cat, and in my case, horse.

But people who have not OWNED horses should have no say in this. They have no concept of what it is like to own a horse.

It’s like hunting. I’m an avid shooter, NRA range officer, instructor. But I couldn’t KILL any animal unless my life depended on it. I don’t condemn others for doing it, it’s necessary to control over population. But I don’t like poachers, or those who hunt for skins.

Sorry got kind of long, but I’m very passionate about this. In summary: if it has to be here, strict controls as listed above, no human consumption (we give horses medicines that it says cannot be in animals for human consumption – its right on the labels), and there needs to be a way that the slippery slope to thinking our PETS are ok needs to be stopped in its tracks.

mariahwwa on November 7, 2013 at 3:27 am

    “But people who have not OWNED horses should have no say in this. They have no concept of what it is like to own a horse.”

    Marijuana, we are supposed to care about your opinion because … ?

    skzion on November 7, 2013 at 6:17 pm

I like and have ridden horses. I don’t eat horse meat and never would even if I could because it isn’t kosher and the idea is absolutely disgusting and stomach-turning to me.

Why? Horsemeat is triefe, but I’d eat it if I were, G-d forbid, starving.

Miranda Rose Smith on November 7, 2013 at 5:43 am

    Miranda, you have boiled all the discussions down to the most salient point: “Why? Horsemeat is triefe, but I’d eat it if I were, G-d forbid, starving.”

    ONE SECOND AFTER by William H. Forstchen will open the eyes of those who are living in Disney Land or have become the Eloi.

    Dennis on November 7, 2013 at 7:51 am

      Thanks.

      Miranda Rose Smith on November 7, 2013 at 9:56 am

    Miranda,

    Author is WILLIAM R. FORSTCHEN…..MY ERROR.

    Dennis on November 7, 2013 at 8:00 am

Wow.
When labelling and name calling are included in an article you know it is going to be a whooper.
You can disagree with someones POV,but why prove yourself to just be mouthing the words that have been fed to you without researching the facts before hand.

Rachael on November 7, 2013 at 8:22 am

Thanks for a well written article addressing the truth of the subject at hand.

Andie Guess on November 7, 2013 at 8:27 am

While visiting some relatives in Italy a few years ago, we were treated to a dinner out.
The main item on the menu was HORSE !!!
This was at the height of the Mad Cow scare and horses were not prone to the disease so eating horse because very popular in Europe.

The meat was breaded and grilled and was quite tasty…sweeter than beef, more lean and a little darker but quite good.
If I didn’t know ahead of time that it was not cow meat, I would not have suspected it.

The aversion to eating horse is simply cultural because of the heavy reliance on horses as a means of transportation and beasts of burden during the formation of this country.
Yes, and also as pets…..

Shootist on November 7, 2013 at 8:51 am

Hunger and availability will soon determine what meat we eat. This issue will be mooted by desperation. Today, there is growing cannibalism in Syria. I’m sure it’s not because they suddenly got a taste for human flesh. They are starving.

http://shoebat.com/2013/11/04/new-cases-cannibalism-muslim-syria/

Pete on November 7, 2013 at 9:28 am

    So we will soon approve cannibalism,because that is what some people in other countries do?

    Rachael on November 7, 2013 at 10:40 am

Even when our Patriots were starving at Valley Forge , they DID NOT EAT THE HORSES.

General Washington( according to his papers) did NOT allow the slaughter of horses for food.

On a personal note, I have owned horses and cared for them for many years. I would no sooner eat horse than I would eat my cats or my dogs because I will not eat my pets. Nor would I eat my grandson’s mice and gerbils.

When in France on several occasions, I saw horse( Cheval) on the menu. It was the main dish at a banquet I attended at the Cadre Noire…that is the French Riding School at Samur.

Horse meat cooked smells just like HORSE SWEAT!!! For a person like me who has cared for the animal and washed it off MANY TIMES, after a long, hot and dusty rides across the byways and fields, I could not possibly eat any food that smells like HORSE SWEAT with a hint of Horse PI$$ !

It is just ME AGAIN on November 7, 2013 at 10:18 am

What is triefe? Does that mean cloven hoof? Maybe not as I don’t think horses have that. I don’t know.

USA is better. We are not China (or France or Italy). The Chinese will eat anything and they are brutal to animals (in my opinion). I’m not a China fan at all.

I think the people who are against the slaughter have added valuable info on how horse slaughter is NOT humane. Try to watch a video. I can’t but I know the deal by now (as I have in the past).

A good point was brought up. Would we eat certain things if starving? You’ll never know until it happens to you. I know I would prolly eat cow, pig or chicken (and any other animal I have ever eaten…only one missing is turkey…) but other animals and people? I hope like hell I would not but know enough not to say a definitive. (A man recently had to eat his dog (who saved him) because he was lost and had no other nourishment…I viewed that as horrible and I know I am being unfair, but it’s emotional I 100% admit. I’m not being fair to the man).

People should decide for themselves if they eat meat or not. I’m putting my $$ where my mouth is and choose not to. Some people who are vegetarian are only for health reasons and don’t care about the animal aspect of it. Some people are sensitive when it comes to animals (this cannot be switched on or off…you either are or are NOT). Some people are sociopaths (so they don’t care about animals OR people at all!!) and some are not. Some people will not care about horse slaughter because they are not animal lovers (wackos if you must…) and some people care because they are animal lovers.

I’m open about my choice and facts go a long way for me. Many here who are against the slaughter have added info on the slaughter and medications and regulations that many who are pro slaughter (for lack of better pithy phrase…) had no clue about. I hope it doesn’t get like the peanut thread because that was long on insanity (and selfishness) and short on facts and common sense.

Skunky on November 7, 2013 at 11:02 am

    Oh yeah, some people care about the religious aspect about God creating animals to serve man’s purpose and others like atheists and agnostics would pooh-pooh that valid point.

    Skunky on November 7, 2013 at 11:10 am

Okay. Horses are not food. The FDA classifies horses as “companion animals like dogs and cats, not raised for slaughter”, “NON FOOD ANIMALS”, and refers to them as “pets”. I am an American. We don’t eat our pets in this country. Based on the argument that we should slaughter our horses simply because there is an overseas market in some non-American cultures, you can rest assured that dogs are next – that is, if you allow horse slaughter to set precedent.

The predatory horsemeat industry has been linked to criminal organizations and illegal activities. The European horsemeat scandal should be a wake-up call to all Americans under the delusion that the USDA keeps our food safe. Drug-laden horsemeat is carcinogenic. I find it ironic to be labeled an “animal rights terrorist” because I see nothing good about horse slaughter, by those who promote exporting toxic meat to our allies overseas, a form of “bio-terrorism”.

Greeder Dave Duquette has the distinction of spreading more lies about horses and horse slaughter than anyone else in the country – with the exception of Slaughterhouse Sue Wallis. Another irony: that he shouts “liar” at those who catch him in his own lies. Nevertheless, according to some of the ignorant comments on this ill-written diatribe, he has succeeded in at least fooling some of the fools some of the time.

Janna on November 7, 2013 at 11:26 am

Who the hell is Dave Duquette????? He keeps being mentioned & I don’t know who he is….

Skunky on November 7, 2013 at 11:36 am

Wait a minute here…..

To ALL of you womb rejected pieces of human inconvenience who are calling the likes of me, a firm and avid supporter of animals and their rights, crazy, may the demise of your family be at slaughter.

I am a retired American Soldier. A veteran of Iraq. A man of both Patriotic and Family values. A Republican – not hyphenated. An intellectual who would challenge Shakespeare and the biography of Hamlet.

I am giggling my ass off as I read through some of these posts. You go from commenting on your pathetic and illiterate comprehension and suddenly the conversation becomes “the difference between liberalism and communism”. Thus the reason for the weakness and failures of the Republican party. Whiners of “I am Tea Party” or “I am Conservative”.

Back to the original issue. Animals have more purpose and character than humans. There alignment with the environment is more in line with nature than most humans. What should be slaughtered are muslims, deviant and anti American and two legged trashcans.

Debbie you have actually lost a supporter. Your moral andcethical choices sre welk hidden and deformed. Your pathetic wisdom and tunnel worshipping flagrants are no different than that piece of shit Obama…

Singleshot on November 7, 2013 at 11:47 am

    Singleshot, you’re acting like the peanut nutters.

    You’re gonna give up all the good reporting and teaching DS does because you disagree? I know it’s an emotional issue and I disagree with her on this one but I am not leaving.

    Your job is to be able to disagree on facts and not emotions. I’m an animal lover like you but I refuse to let emotion over rule a disagreement.

    There have been others on our side who have made more cogent, truthful and learned points than you have. You’ll be losing more due to your emotional tantrum than gaining anything.

    Skunky on November 7, 2013 at 12:26 pm

      Singleshot sez:

      “[He is an] intellectual who would challenge Shakespeare and the biography of Hamlet.”

      Good grief, that isn’t even grammatical (he would challenge … the biography of Hamlet?).

      Adios one-shot. You’re a moron.

      skzion on November 7, 2013 at 6:25 pm

Having seen a magnificent performance of the traveling Montreal-based Cavalia show, “Odysseo,” I cannot in good conscience countenance the killing and eating of horses. These beautiful animals deserve an exalted place in our society.

Say no to horsemeat!

Seek on November 7, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    Seek, I have seen the billboards for that show you mentioned. They were beautiful and caught my artistic eye. I can only imagine what the show must be like…

    Skunky on November 7, 2013 at 3:30 pm

giddyup, horse… right into my belly.

hey, why isn’t horsemeat kosher?

kirche61 on November 7, 2013 at 1:00 pm

I oppose the killing of whales and dolphins, dogs and elephants, all of which exhibit higher intelligence than most people I know. At least these animals don’t vote for the Democrats.

Jonathan E. Grant on November 7, 2013 at 1:01 pm

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