A requirement before marrying these predatory scum should be for all of these dumb broads to watch the movie, "Not Without My Daughter". Not that it would help much because these desperate women are brain-dead, however, there should at least be impediments put in place before these barbarians are allowed access into MY country.

I believe in instant attraction but not in instant love. Chatting online for a few weeks to a month, and then flying off to meet, only to become love struck smacks more of Hollywood than reality. It is a desperate fantasy that is being played and preyed upon by the unscruplous for their own agenda. As for how to control it, that's a good question. Even if a cooling off period where to be implemented where if the marriage went south within a year or two the person would lose citizenship and be deported were enacted, how would you enforce it. As people just disappear all the time who don't want to be found. As to the My Space statement about being more accepted in Canada or Europe. That is probably true I am sad to say.
One curious thing I did see on the Visa Journey sight (and here the name says it all: where is the LOVE) was a woman named "gimygirl" who used a Darwin Fish as her symbol. Natural Selection and Islam are both at extreme ends of each other, and not even remotely compatible.

Darwin was right. At least partially. Get these stupid twits outa my genepool.

Thee Bruno, I rarely agree with you (or at least think you take a view I might expouse to it's most extremist end), but this time I say "Right On". "Not Without My Daughter" was an excellent movie and should be required watching for these gullible nitwits.

It's a Meshuggenah Nation, Debbie. These unstable, low expectation-having women are beyond desperate if they're willing to travel to the armpit of the world (Morocco) to find their under-nourished husband.

There are evolutionary patterns that women follow when they get married. Foreign men and lonely American girls w/DSL may be a tough nut to crack.

In case you missed it, VisaJourney members have significant others from all over the world. Whether our SOs are from Europe or Egypt, whether we met online or studying abroad, the members come together for the common purpose of bringing our loved ones to the United States. Those of us with Middle East/North African SOs are but a small minority out of the overall population of tens of thousands who apply for marriage based visas each year. If you read the board, it's full of american women and men who have met their canadian/german/russian/chinese/british/moroccan/peruvian/insert random nationality here SO on the internet.

Posting snippy comments and making assumptions about the women who post on the board are exactly what I worried about when I posted the link to your blog in the thread. Thankfully, we have to deal with this kind of prejudice only on occasion in the real world.

I am a veteran member of visajourney.com. Rahma has brought this thread to our attention - http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18822

I would like to make a few points. I'd also like to make it clear that I speak only for myself.

1. In my years as a member of visajourney.com, I have read of more visa fraud come from Caucasian men who travel to the Phillipine islands or Vietnam to find younger, waifier, women, than from any other single destination.

2. In recent months, the U.S. consular post in Morocco has tightened down its procedures quite a bit. One must take care not to read too much, or too little, into this. The State Dept is clearly aware of fraudulent applications being filed at this consulate. That is why these security measures have been put in the place. However, this is not something that is by any means unique to Morocco. Other consulates are still much more difficult to get visas from, for example Ho Chi Minh City, Manila, Lagos, etc. The amount of fraud in these posts dwarfs anything we've seen happen in Morocco.

A little perspective, please.

3. One last point. This is important. Let's assume you're right about most of these men using these women. Why therefore jump to the further conclusion that these guys are all crazy jihadis? Why not jump to the more obvious (and simpler) conclusion that they want a better life and are using these girls as a means of achieving that?

Your tactic of immediately assuming these men are terrorists is very revealing. Your agenda is clear.

ps. I wonder what kind of legal grounds you are treading on by posting their photos on your blog without their permission and captioning them in a manner that subjects them to mock and ridicule. I will find out. Stay tuned, sweety.

I think that you have gone one step too far with this post. One thing is expressing your personal opinions about topics that may "spark your very limited and narrowminded interest" and yet another thing is what you have done with this post. You have no right to pass judgment, make uneducated assumptions and tarnish the image or reputation of innocent individuals whom you do not know. This is an outrageous and hurtful move on your side and I am not sure what is it that you want to accomplish. I know that we live in a free country and freedom of speech is one of our most basic rights but please do not abuse same to feed some hurtful mission of yours. You have no right to post pictures or profiles of these women?that is simply wrong?who are you to judge as to people?s decision of how they want to run their private lives that have no affect on you whatsoever?You should educate yourself a little more as to what Visa Journey is all about and who are the participants, but I think you should just stay away from VJ altogether as you are not capable of seeing the truth?It is very easy to criticize what is different and what you don?t understand but not on the expense innocent people that have not caused you any harm?Please be very careful as to how you talk about these woman as clearly you have no clue what they are all about?Just relax and direct your petty commentaries in a different direction as I think that you are doing more harm then good?

Although there are cases where women and men are used by foreign men and women to obtain a green card, it?s appalling to see that someone who claims to have knowledge and common sense making such a post. Your article is racist, has no facts in which to base itself on, and furthermore it?s prejudicial, and disrespectful towards the thousands of people who just happen to have met their loved ones in a country other than their own.

I assure you the proportion of people who marry an USC to get a green card is inexistent compared to those that marry foreigners and have a successful relationship. According to you, ALL that live in Asia and the Middle East are automatically terrorists, liars, and are just decieving american women. You should know your facts before making such assumption.

The error of a teenager cannot be taken as a rule for others, that all women meet their future husbands through the internet and get married after knowing them for a short time and without truly knowing each other.

This article and following comments just prove how close minded people are. If you had read about the process to bring a foreigner to marry an american you?d know there are strict security checks, document requirements and other precautions to prevent ?fake? marriages from taking place.

Lastly, it?s unnaceptable that you?d use couples who already go through so much, to be treated like liars and fooled women, and post their pictures to support your racist comments.

In regards to you and some of the posters blindly following after you, my new name here says it all. You speak about the 'nitwits' on VisaJourney, and the 'barbarians' they're bringing over. I have some crow here especially for you to go with that massive stereotype you're trying to feed us for lunch. Do you know any of these people? Of course you don't, but you feel free to write whatever comes to your tiny mind about them while you sit behind the security of your little desk there. How very brave of you, and how grateful we are that you're here to spread the word about these nitwits and barbarians, and further promote racism in the United States. I applaud you. [/hugeamountsofsarcasm]I, for one, would much rather have the people you speak of, and whose pictures you display in MY country than I would have the likes of racist people like you. You make me ill, and I hope those that read this blog are able to think for themselves and see the lack of YOUR ability for real cognition,and instead see your hateful remarks for what they are. BTW, NO I did not desperately 'find' MY husband in any of the places you refer to in your article before you jump to THAT conclusion, and, as you felt it appropriate to comment on some of the ladies 'looks', I wish to add that there are many women far more beautiful than yourself on VisaJourney.com. Come and have a look; I hope you won't feel too inferior.

Your information regarding my "marriage" and location is erroneous. I am not currently married and the city listed in my personal information was for a local service, not my city of residence. This isn't where the errors in this article end, but I personally feel that the opinions stated here are nothing more then that--opinion, not fact. I find what you say offensive, and that's my right to state as much as it your's. I have lived in Egypt. I know the truths about the culture. I am happy with my choice of future husband for my own reasons, none of which are in alignment with the opinion you stated. You have chosen to use my personal information without my permission. I find the ethics behind that to be lacking and should be a testament to the validity of what you print here. I really have no use for bigotry and I will not be returning. But because you are such a true blue American I would like to remind you of the words of our own Declaration of Independence, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness." I have the right to mine and do not appreciate your defamations. May I also remind you that this is a nation founded by immigrants and that very few of those reading this or posting here can claim a "pure american lineage". Our families all ultimately came from somewhere else. I realize that it is quite socially fashionable these days to lamblast the people of the middle east, but it's bigotry nonetheless and our own declaration stood against it. It's a shame human beings revel in causing others pain. I regret ever happening on this forum. It's a sad commentary on a certain mentality in this country.

I would tread carefully if I were you. What you have just done is accuse specific individuals of visa fraud, which is a serious crime with serious punishment, including bars from entering the United States. I would suggest that, unless you have specific facts to back up those claims, that you keep your suspicions to yourself. Same as if I walked out of my office right now and called someone a rapist, because he looked a certain way. We just don't do that in polite society, and you should be ashamed of yourself. This is not to say that fraud does not occur, but that is up to the US Immigration to decide, not someone who looked at a web site for 5 minutes and now thinks she knows everything.

mercuryroad....resident jokester on visajourney

You have insulted good people in your hate laced tirade. These are my brothers and sisters that have gone on a journey that people from the outside cannot understand. We only seek love and our right to be happy.

Many people like you enter our lives and give us a million reasons why things would not work...but all of us on that site only need believe in the one reason why it will work.

We come from all parts of the world and come together in our imperfect community and manage to coexist, something I wish the rest of the world could learn as well.

This process is difficult enough and they do not need any additional pain.

I hope whatever torments your heart will be lifted and that you do the right thing and post a retraction and apologize for this abuse.

I also hope you do not call yourself a Christian or practice any other religion, because you have embarassed yourself and your God on this day.

Via con dios senora. I wish you the best on your journey, and hopefully you can do the same for us.

I agree with the other posters. As someone who says you have attained a law degree, you should be fully aware of your accusations. Moreover, as someone who has attended law school you should be aware of the numerous fallacies you have committed within this article. "These vulnerable women, desperate for attention, are extremely gullible and easily agreeable to a quickie marriage. They are just some of those born to P.T. Barnum's predicted birthrate of suckers". This is a AD HOMINEM, you have personally attacked these women. How can you call yourself a columnist? You are not worthy of the degree you hold. Of all the terrorists that have attacked the US how many of them were married to US citizens?! POST HOC; ERGO PROPTER HOC. Causal Fallacy incase you don't know any latin.
Stop trying to sleep your way to fame. Your ignorant article is a testament to the racist and stereotypical views of so many Amerians.
You are a prime example of yellow journalism. I recommend you issue an apology before your site is taken down for false accusation and unethical writing. (I'm sure you're aware of the rules of your ISP).

It's worth mentioning that not everyone at visajourney met their fiancees online. It is a wonderful site with information regarding all sorts of family based immigration. But thank you for the attention...theres no such thing as bad publicity.

National Security? Give me a break. You're worried about sullying the country with more Arab Muslims whose ideals and religion repulse you.

Just to enlighten you, because obviously you only took the time to glance at the website long enough to get enough flimsy info for your blog and grab some photos to use without permission, it is not an easy process to get a marriage or fiance visa to the U.S. You must go through a long applications process, paying hundreds of dollars in fees, getting police reports, having security checks run upon the foreign national (during ALL stages of the process),having medical examinations taken, biometrics taken, financial reports scrutinized, and going through consular interviews.
At all points, you must prove you have a valid relationship. There is no "quickie" in any of this process.

What would you do if you met a man in Israel, fell in love, and wanted to marry him? Would you somehow feel you are more entitled to getting your husband here than someone with a husband from Morocco? From reading your blog, I think you would feel that way. You have some strange sense of entitlement which pervades all of your posts. Who are you to state that someone is desperate because her husband comes from the Middle East?

For you to presume to know about the process and all about the statistics of those going through the process is not only ill-advised, but downright stupid. You are a racist, and it's people like you who flame the religious war that's been going on between Muslims and Jews for centuries. There are Muslims who do it, too; you're their Jewish counterpart. (see there? just by reading this site for 5 minutes, I assume you are Jewish.) All of the Jewish people I know personally are intelligent, kind, and tolerant, and it shocked me to see this hatred coming from you.

Personally, I'm marrying my fiance who is from the ME/North Africa. I'm not older than he is, I've never been married, I have no children, and I have plenty of American men to choose from. I just happened to fall in love with him. We've been together for five years, so no "quickie" marriage. He's Muslim, I'm Christian, and guess what? A Jewish man is performing our ceremony.

Most women who travel to the middle east are drawn in by these men who will eventually use them in the long run. They dont see it now but most do have a motive to come to the US and leave these women. There are several threads on this Visa Journey website detailing of women having the same thing happen to them...being used and abandoned. These women claim never forseeing it happening but in all honesty the writing Im sure was on the wall. Im sure not all men from there should be catergorized this way but sure most are using these naive starry eyed women.

I find it shocking that someone can snoop around on another website - seemingly to find information to substantiate her narrow and biased views. If I were any of the person's whose privacy has been violated I would sue you. To me, you are the worst kind of scum - a hate-mongerer, with a narrow and insular view of the world at large. Not everyone wants to go to the USA... I certainly do not; unfortunately my fiance's mother does not keep well otherwise nothing in the world would induce me to live in a country which is innundated with red-necks and ignorant, un-educated twats like you.

"Most women who travel to the middle east are drawn in by these men who will eventually use them in the long run." Chicka

Please site your source...it sounds like you have done extensive research on the subject.

Does fraud happen, sure. It happens in a variety of countries and situations. To categorize an entire group because of your biased perception of what they represent is entirely un-American.

To all the Visa Journey losers: Get a life! And try to use your brains if you can. Have you checked the profiles of terrorists or terrorist supporters? Most of them are married to stupid (usually white) American or European women. They need an easy entry into the west to islamize the rest of the people.

And No! It is not racist to criticize a marriage where one is a white and the other an Arab. If you had brains, you'd look deeper into the situation. You don't need to be a MENSA member to figure it out. Unfortunately, the be-tolerant-of-other-cultures rubbish you learn in American high schools trivialises the dangers of multi-cultural societies and lowers your IQ (probably everyone on Visa Journey has IQ < 1)

Chicka you still have not named your sources. Where are these profiles of all of these white wives you speak of?

You're speaking on emotion and not intelligence.

Islamize the rest of the world? Wow...and you speak about our IQ level.

You have a debate without merit and ideas without evidence. I'd say your argument is over don't you?

Really, you are embarassing yourself.

Uhh you misread the line. I didn't say what you are referring to, ITisTRUE is the one who said that.

My apologies Chicka!

I messed it up because my IQ is .25

I've long wondered about some of the couples on VJ and when seeing the breakup of middle-eastern/American relationships I have to ask myself what the real impetus behind the relationship was to start with.

And yes, VJ is just ripe for the pickens...all one has to do is read a lot of the timelines either in signatures or linked automatically in the profiles to ascertain how to go about getting yourself to the states via a single/gullible woman with low self-esteem who doesn't know how to value herself unless she has a man. Some of the horror stories one reads on VJ and sites just like it, raise the hair on the back of my neck.

However, to be fair, it's not just the Islamic/Muslim relationships that that have visa fraud issues, there are a lot of former eastern block nations where visa and immigration fraud runs rampant.

But you'll never see it addressed on VJ in the manner in which it should be, as evidenced by all the comments above.

Want to learn how to find an easy ride to the USA? Visa Journey

Want to learn the fast and easy way to defraud the system? Visa Journey

Want free legal advice that is anything but legal posted by people who play arm-chair immigration attorney? Visa Journey

And to the folks on VJ who are horrified or shocked at the statements posted on this blog. You get what you pay for when you post piccies on the net along with all kinds of personal information that is better kept to yourselves.

Ms. Schussel isn't to blame, you are.

Gumby

VJ is not an internet dating service nor does it claim to be. I don't understand the comment about ripe for the pickens in that regard.

Your lack of knowledge and understanding of the process is evident by your claims of easy entry into this country. You are making broad based generalizations that have no factual basis or merit.

Please clarify what is easy about this process. I would certainly like to know, having gone through it myself.

"You get what you pay for when you post piccies on the net along with all kinds of personal information that is better kept to yourselves. "

Any real journalist would not do such a thing. Any real journalist would interview those people or at a minimum do their homeword and present factual information.

This is not journalism....this is the spread of fear and hate. This kind of racism must be met by those of us who dare to believe in what this country is supposed to be about.

Are there horror stories....you bet. I hear horror stories about marriage all the time. Nothing is perfect and there will be instances. That however, yields no right to generalize an entire group. That is a flagrant violation to what an ethical journalist should do.

Debbie, consider this a way for you to get rid of Oprah! :)

Grumby, say what you will.

But I will be sitting here laughing my ass off when she gets hit with a lawsuit.

Since you seem to know who to blame, are you going to be the one "Ms. Schussel" crawls to, no less on her knees when her career spirals downward?

Please.

I think the last thing VJ wants or needs right now is any attention, be it the victim or victimizer, I know of a certain attorney that would be all too willing to lead the calvary charge to bring the site down. A lawsuit would only bring attention to the site and show it for what it is, a haven for UPL!

Tsk tsk tsk chilren' this could be the start of the end.

For the rest of you, get your panties out of a bunch. You run the risk of your relationship being criticized when you post it for all the world to see on the web. Oh and Merc...I do know the process, backwards and forwards, I too have been through it. Read between the lines dumbass.

Lawsuit, ha! She'll remove the pictures and references to timelines and that will be that. Hell, there's more copyright infringement on VJ than anywhere else I've seen. And at least Ms. Schussel has the decency to link back.

The chance of this going to court is nill. Too many people are far too paranoid about Muslims and those practicing Islam finding refuge in our country and far too many people are going to agree with her. The outcry will be over how many are immigrating to the US after seemingly knowing these women for such a short period of time. Rome was not built in a day and neither were long lasting relationships that stand the test of time. The outcry will not be over some silly perceived slight but over how many men get away with this kind of crap.

GUMBY:
WHAT IS "UPL"?
DEBBIE SCHLUSSEL

Debbie pissed off the arabs,debbie pissed off the arabs.Na na na na na na

Quite frankly, your ignorance is astounding. If you choose to broadcast such deporable propaganda, you should at least have the courtesy to fully research your issue.

Perhaps it did not occur to you that these women like something in these men; that rather than them being the "suckers", you are in fact the sucker for settling for simply what is on your doorstep rather than taking advantage of the wonderful, rich diversity that lays at your fingertips. It is this kind of narrowmindedness which kept the country racially segregated. I think it is sad that you are unable to overcome your xenophobia.

As for VisaJourney, I hardly think that a quick flick around the site is going to provide you with the information from which you can write such an article. If you take the time to look around the site, you will find it to be a place of open support and one of the most tolerant places on the internet. I find it slightly amusing that by choosing to debase the site, you have proven yourself to be against legalised immigration, racial tolerance and diversity (remember, this is "the great American melting pot) and against the very principles on which this country was founded.

Your biased opinions show you very clearly to be a disgrace to your profession, along with your UNAUTHORISED use of personal information information to further your own (sadly misguided) political agenda.

Gumby I can read between the lines. I can also see the lines and see that they have been crossed in this hate text.

I'm unimpressed and unphased by your name calling. I have been known to be a dumb@ss sometimes, but who hasn't.

Your anger towards me is an admission of your own lack of intelligence and ability to carry on a debate.

In fact, I think you should stop hiding behind your cowardice and reveal your screen name.

I have shown mine and have nothing to hide.

Danny -

She didn't piss off Arabs....she pissed off Americans. Americans that believe in something Ms. Schlussel clearly does not understand.

Merc you are wasting your time trying to reason with a pack of rabid hate-mongerers. These are the kind of people who in days of yore would have set fire to women calling them witches. These are fearful, narrow-minded, ignorant, inherently stupid red-necks. They are a waste of time trying to reason with - too dumb to understand. Sub-normal cretins is the way I see them...

it is a sad state...when a person can jusde people//couples based on principles of bigotry and a personal agenda... you should be ashaned debbie.but i doubt that you have the capacity to feel anything but hatered towards anyone that does not fit your ideal vision of america.almaty

Debbie,

UPL is the Unathorized/Unlicensed Practise of Law.

Sites like Visa Journey, British Expats, Immigrate2US et al are havens for UPL and the "netarios" who frequent them that have little better to do than advise those seeking information on the procedure to immigrate a loved one to the US.

C'mon Gumby....reveal yourself.

Now you are lecturing a lawyer about law.....very full of yourself aren't you?

Looking at the structure of this thread it would seem that a straw-man argument has been set up with calls of Ad-Hominem attacks and the charge of racism, when the only real Ad-Hominem attacks are levied against Ms. Schlussel. The blog as I read it was about the concern of less than scrupulous individuals who can and do exploit the system and fellow human beings to achieve personal ends that could result in issues of national security. That a twenty-five year old man wishes to marry a sixteen year old girl should be of concern to any rational thinking person. That the person in question is a Palestinian should be brought to the table and examined as it is largely those of Islamic-Arab descent that are committing acts of terrorism against the west. That the system has the potential to be used and abused should also be examined in light of these quickie relationships and marriages as they fall outside of the norm of most unions which take place over years and not weeks. How do you as the person involved in the affair know if you are being used or not as the heart will often lie for the euphoria of love.
That Visa Journey is plugged into the public domain makes it open to criticisms of all types, and I have yet to see any kind of slander or bigotry from the host of this site. what I do see are hurt feelings from members of Visa Journey who have mounted a spam campaign going by the thread above. Willingly or not.
To Visa Journey members posting here I can only say your voice is weakened when you stray from the argument and throw out charges of racism and hate mongering in light of the facts.
Maybe it is time you look at your own actions, and the actions and intentions of your beaus, and ask yourself if any of what has been said here can be applied to your situation.

oh come on now Canadian Infidel, those women she openly mocks did not agree to be part of an article. She is certainly free to say what she wants, but a respected journalist/blogger sticks to facts and does not prey on people to get a point across.

Had the point been put across without the venom, I'd say there would be nothing to really complain about. People are going to disagree in life, and that's fine. But you don't need to put someone down to make yourself look better.

Posted by: Canadian Infidel at June 22, 2006 08:47 PM

"...and I have yet to see any kind of slander or bigotry from the host of this site."

Did you read the article or did you just read the comments and decided to put in your 2 cents worth?

To Visa Journey members posting here I can only say your voice is weakened when you stray from the argument and throw out charges of racism and hate mongering in light of the facts.

The implied message above was that these girls listed on Visa Journey have no self esteem and need a man for validation....a man they could not get in the U.S. Their relationship is put into question based on the fact that the men are from the M/E.

That's racism, bigotry and hatred. The reason the pictures were posted were to try to illustrate that somehow these women are not attractive and could not possibly be with these men, thus making the relationship illegitamate and also implying these women are naive and stupid.

Tell me that's not racism and hate mongering. There are men out there that would do this, and they come from many countries.

The fact as you would put it is that these women from VJ were singled out without consent or an interview.

That's lopsided journalism at it's worse and the sole purpose was to propagate a racist agenda against immigrants from the M/E.

Americans should be appalled by this behavior and reject the notion that love is not possible between an American woman and a Middle Eastern man and that all Middle Eastern men are terrorists in waiting.

That is the implication of this hate speech. The message diverted from the real tradgedy and the real issue. The author exposed herself and her personal beliefs.....and we found her to be a hate preacher.

Those are the facts. Ms. Schlussel needs to divert her eyes from the "white light" that has blinded her perception. Judgement should be reserved for individuals, not groups of people.

ummmmmmmmmmmmm Sofyan isnt palestinian....lol....assumptions much?

UMMMMMMMMMMMMM, HE'S JORDANIAN, WHICH MEANS HE'S ALMOST CERTAINLY PALESTINIAN, AS UPWARDS OF 75% OF ALL JORDANIANS ARE, IN FACT, PALESTINIANS............LOL..........KNOWLEDGE MUCH.
DEBBIE SCHLUSSEL

I dont see the VJ site as a supportive and tolerant place. I see cliques going on and constant arguing with lock threads and who can gain the most blue boxes with hearts.

One can read about a lot of these women's families own apprehension about marrying these Arab men on VJ. So these women struggle with not only outsiders but their own family concerns. There are valid reasons to be scrutinizing these relationships. You can ask most people their view of these relationships and they will tell these women to be heedful.

This is what happens when we raise our daughters to be unpatriotic whores

This is seriously laughable at best. Having just waded through most of a 13 page thread on VJ devoted to bashing, flaming, slamming and generally calling Debbie every nasty name in the book, those freaky folks at VJ have once again proven how petty they really are. Lash out when you feel you've been lashed out at, sure, that's mature.

Nothing is going to happen. VJ doesn't need to involve itself in a law suit because the whole tenuous house of cards that site rests on will come tumbling down. I think there are two people, Arijit and Fishdude who are intelligent enough to realize that and have commented along those lines.

So what, she basically said you are unattractive women who have such little self esteem that you COULD easily be taken advantage of by some unscrupulous man from the middle east who is trying to get into the US. She did not however state that this IS the case, nor did she state she had proof that ANY visa fraud was going on. Therein lies the rub. Aint a damn thing you can do about any of this except ask her to remove the photos from the blog and the timeline items. Everything else is just her opinion and litigating against an opinion is like pissing in the wind.

Calm down and get some perspective and get over it. I think the "offended" women are more upset about being called undesirable and zaftig than anything else.

Well Gumby, I think you've just revealed yourself to be a disgruntled ex-VJ member who didn't manage to get enough hearts to join the "clique". Not that there is one. People with a common experience and understanding, yes. The kind of experience that breeds a certain level of intimacy, yes. A clique? No. VJ is a supportive place, or you would not be seeing the backlash that is going on right now.

To comment on the self esteem of women that she has never even spoken to is honestly risible. It's also unfair. A practising attorney this blogger may be, but a pyschiatrist she ain't. To put thoughts into the minds of your readers is one thing, but when you drag into it people who are innocent and misrepresent them and their relationships you may not have crossed a legal line, but you have crossed the lines of human decency.

Gumby, for you to say that the offended women have nothing more to be upset about than being called undesirable and zaftig is being obnoxious and short-sighted. It's not a good reflection on your character, and does nothing to boost your credibility in this argument. I believe that you're far smarter than to think that's the only issue involved here, and you're doing yourself a disservice by resorting to this.

Why is this article not on the mail-order bride phenomenon? Why not pick up on Russian brides, or Philipinas? Why assume that only Middle Eastern men are marrying USCs for the green card? I'm British; maybe I married my husband for a green card, and hey, I could be a football hooligan. This whole piece smacks of fear of the ME, based on the narrow-mindedness and ignorance which led the author to write it.

This "article" is a piece of sensationalist junk, and ought to be seen as such. That's what most so-called "journalism" is in the United States of America, and it's a sad indictment of the citizens of this country when so many of them take as verbatum a pie-in-the-sky potshot at people who did nothing wrong.

"and since she decided to slap my picture right on top...I must add i think i am a hell of alot more desirable than her ogre ass.....anyone else agree?"

dollface41601: Since you asked, I should disagree. You may be beautiful by Arab standards, but you ARE UGLY anywhere else... No wonder you had to look so far away for your Prince Charming! You might do us a favor and change your ID (dollface) to something more appropriate (for example: crapface).

Gumby

What's laughable is that you are obviously a member of that site and have been for quite some time now. That irony is a little hard to swallow.

The only reason to be a member of that site for that long is if you derived value from it.

Yet, you are on here throwing flames....quite convieniently I may add as you refuse to reveal your identity.

At least Ms. Schlussel gave us that courtesy.

You call us freaky folks yet you are one. Show some courage and reveal who you are if you feel so strongly about this issue.

"dollface41601: Since you asked, I should disagree. You may be beautiful by Arab standards, but you ARE UGLY anywhere else... No wonder you had to look so far away for your Prince Charming! You might do us a favor and change your ID (dollface) to something more appropriate (for example: crapface)."

Quite a lovely following you have here Ms. Schlussel....lovely indeed.

You must be proud of your like minded following and the wisdom and understanding they provide to the world.

This fan of yours is evidence of your fall. I would reconsider my fan base and do some thinking about what types of people you are attracting to your word.

MrsM: How many Russian, Filipina or British mail-order imports do you find are potential terrorists or terrorist supporters? Do a reality check -- most of them (including the silent majority from the mid-east) ARE Arabs or of Arab origin.

I am not going to insult you as a person Debbie, but it is very unbecoming to post an article containing half-truths and some flat out false information. Obviously you have upset some couples, whose lives you know nothing about besides reading a few sentences about them. You are only using them as examples because of where their husband or fiance is from. You do not know the true stories of each of the couples you posted about. You are using them as way to make yourself look well researched.

It would be appropriate in such a matter to apologize for posting content that is not truthful. YOu don't need to apologize for your opinions on the overall subject, but you DO need to apologize to the couples you have hurt because you have posted very horrible things about them.

An opinion is how we each truly feel, and every one is entitled to an opinion. You are entitled to believe that certain men scam certain women, but it is down right dirty to use real people who you know nothing about, to "prove" your point. Which in essence only proves your point to those who also know NOTHING about the couples you posted about besides the lies you have told them. For people who really know, they cannot believe what they are reading.
The truth in the article: yes these women are marrying men from certain countries, and you don't like it!
The false in it: That they have all only met once and just say yes to marriage without thinking, and the manner in which their relationships have taken place. You know nothing about each couple you mentioned besides their visa process that you listed! You don't know how they came to that point.

I'd ask the fans of Debbie, please decipher the truth from the lies in the article, which was not well researched. I'm not telling you to hate Debbie or stop liking her. If you agree with her opinions on the subject, then that's your right. And it's also my right to disagree. But there is a line that is crossed when false info comes into play to only hurt people.

mercuryroad: Reality is sometimes hard to swallow. And it gets buried under political correctness.

No, I am not talking about dollface's appearance. Look beyond face value and go for the real base! I'm referring to the ACTUAL situation where Arabs hook low-IQ American women who refuse to use their brains and endanger not only themselves, but their country!!

Throw in a few sweet I-love-you-to-death sentences, get your green card into the US and proceed to the next level -- is this modus operandi so hard for you to infer?

No I am not Matthew Udall. Nice try tho.

I see that stupidity abounds once more on VJ. Trying to verify Debbies age so she can be phoned and harrassed? Talk about fodder for a lawsuit, and openly admitting your intention. Dumbass.

And as far as Stephen Palick, the 'former' owner of VJ. He is still very much the man behind the scenes at VJ. If you dont believe me why dont you ask Sassycat, Bopeep, Gemmacat, Flyergirl, Darb, and Rubywine all about that. Why do you think none of them post anymore when at one time they all ruled the site right along with Steve. Still do. They all helped Steve keep up the facade of the site being run/owned by someone else in order to protect Steve from Mr. Udall. Quite the clique they had going at one time.

I seem to recall it was two of the group mentioned above that were the ones responsible for banning Mr. Udall. Kinda makes you wonder why they dropped off the face of the earth all of a sudden.

So if you think Steve wants something as silly as this to go to court, think again. Steve would be shown for the fake he is, and I might add, probably get in trouble for giving out users IP addresses to his little buddies as well.

Just something to chew on kiddies while your readying your tar and feathers for Debbie.

"mercuryroad: Reality is sometimes hard to swallow. And it gets buried under political correctness.

No, I am not talking about dollface's appearance. Look beyond face value and go for the real base! I'm referring to the ACTUAL situation where Arabs hook low-IQ American women who refuse to use their brains and endanger not only themselves, but their country!!"

Certainly you have an odd way of expressing yourself because you stated she was good looking by Arab standards but ugly in the U.S. I'm confused as to how that comment was directed at her IQ (which you have no way of knowing) rather than her appearance.

You are basically saying that anyone American woman that marries an Arab man is ugly and has no IQ. Yet, if they married an American white man that would be ok.

That is a racist comment and there's nothing politically correct driving my statement. There can be no rebuttal nor excuse for such a remark about someone you do not know.

"No I am not Matthew Udall. Nice try tho."

Still dodging the question at hand I see. Really that states everything that needs to be known about you. You were given ample opportunity to stand up as a man and defend your position by identifying yourself. Instead you have chosen a cowardly path and choose to shoot your verbal bullets at our backs from the shadows.

Those are cowardly acts indeed and speak to the true nature of your character. Why would anyone listen to what you have to say when you are villifying the very people that you commiserate with so frequently. By any definition, that is a traitor.

You have quite an extensive knowledge about the site and are clearly a member, thus deriving value from the site yet you come on here to deface it.

What exactly is your agenda and why do you lurk in the shadows?

What possible gain do you have in that?

I am going to be very naive for a moment...but it's worth a try! :)

Debbie,
can you please take down the photos above of the couples you had found online at the site visajourney and the specific info about them. Make your point some other way, not by using misleading info about these couples who are now very hurt.

Please be "the better person" and do this. I am asking this simply. It doesn't hurt to just ask, right?

"Please be "the better person" and do this. I am asking this simply. It doesn't hurt to just ask, right? "

Any good person of faith would honor such a request.

Please Debbie, make your point another way. I implore your sense of humanity to not be this cruel.

"Certainly you have an odd way of expressing yourself because you stated she was good looking by Arab standards but ugly in the U.S. I'm confused as to how that comment was directed at her IQ (which you have no way of knowing) rather than her appearance."

If you cannot comprehend what I posted, I won't blame you for it. You figure out the reason yourself!

"You are basically saying that anyone American woman that marries an Arab man is ugly and has no IQ. Yet, if they married an American white man that would be ok."

You need to take a 101 lesson in Logic at the nearest community college. Your argument is lousy.

"That is a racist comment and there's nothing politically correct driving my statement."

What was racist in that? Isn't that a pattern we have observed in all these people?

"There can be no rebuttal nor excuse for such a remark about someone you do not know."

You do not have to know someone personally to deduce certain facts about him/her. Do you have to know any of the terrorists or terrorist supporters to figure that they are dangerous to this country?

"Your argument is lousy."

I agree...it's yours precisely. It is not hard to deduce your theory from the information provided. You may wish to back pedal at this point but your observations were quite clear.

"You do not have to know someone personally to deduce certain facts about him/her. Do you have to know any of the terrorists or terrorist supporters to figure that they are dangerous to this country?"

I'm glad you find yourself to be qualified as a judge and jury. Even in a court of law circumstantial evidence is not enough to convict so why do you feel so compelled to do it here?

You cannot ascertain from the information given, which some of it was false by the way, that these women from VJ are marrying terrorists.

I suspect if you were in their situation, you would see things very differently. Or would you never be involved with an Arab woman?

Where is Ms. Schlussel? Her absence in this discussion is deafening. There are clear objections to her points and I would think she would offer a rebuttal of some sort to further explain her position and actions regarding this matter.

Also, there were a few pleas to remove the pictures from the victims who did not wish to be a part of this and have expressed a simple request to have the pictures removed.

What kind of vengeful person would leave them up after such a simple request? I sincerely hope this is not an issue of pride.

Those request are not unreasonable Ms. Schlussel. If it were you, you would want them removed also. It would be a gracious act to see them removed. Why must we beg?

anonymous twit....you have a lot of nerve...all these people who made comments about me, why dont you slap a picture of you on here and let us all judge you by 2 false statements and a picture...This was a horrible move on your part Debbie, you know nothing of me, or my husband....the "Story of my life" on Visajourney is a mere outline of my immigration process to let fellow VJ'ers know what they might encounter if they are going thru the same process.. I am a bright women, with a huge future ahead of me, and you have no place putting my story out in front of the world for scrutiny.....and maybe you should look further into the immigration process....all immigrants go there HARDCORE background checks, and they continue for a long time here in the United States...The embassy just doesnt hand a friggin visa over to any person.....Know your stuff before u post lady! Your assumptions of my husband and I are very wrong...your facts arent even straight...How did u just assume my husband was palestinian, and how do you presume to think we dont know one another...What my timeline failed to tell you was we have known eachother a long time....I have travelled to jordan numerous times, and actually lived in Jordan, under the care of my husband and his family for a year! Your a sorry writer..and a very sad women....To make up lies to draw attention to your "fan club" was low

Traitor? Mighty strong words there Merc when you don't even know me or anything about me. Again, I'm not Mr. Udall, but I am one of the few who thought he contributed to VJ and was run off and tarred and feathered by the very same brush you're all using to tar and feather Debbie with.

My point is this. You're all crying foul and demanding that Steve (Ewok, Wookie and how ever many other id's he has) do something. Well kids, Steve isn't stupid, he knows that should he get into this cockup it could very well shut the site down, for good and heaven forbid that should happen. Because we all know that nothing bad ever happens on VJ. Frankly that's dogs bollocks. Bad things do happen and people do get led astray by erroneous advice given out there.

All Steve can do is demand the photos be removed from Debbies blog as well as the timeline info that was pinched. She stated her opinion and there is nothing defamatory or libelous in doing so, therefore there is no grounds for a law suit.

Villifying the very people I commiserate with? Oh please, get over yourself. I stopped "commiserating" with that tribe of lunatics when people like Sassycat and Bopeep, Junaid, and the whole lot started villifying someone who was simply trying to keep innocents from being given misinformation on a website. There never was any "handover". It was all a huge facade Stephen Palick put on to keep Matthew Udall from trying to shut the site down. And in doing so, people who were moderating the site (and who still are), Sassycat, Bopeep, Gemmacat, Flyergirl and the rest, were all accessories to his deception and helped him scapegoat his way out of any true responsibility.

And while your all out there having a hissy fit over Debbie's OPINION and making horses asses out of yourselves, why don't you ask Steve about all those IP addresses he's given to the other moderators so they can go and see who is who. And ask him about all the "pm snooping" they do. Reading everyone's pms and laughing about it in their little hidden moderator forums.

If there is no UPL on the site, then why is Steve hiding who he is? If he hasn't done anything wrong, then why all the deception? And that kiddies is why you'll never see anything of your silly suggestions about a law suit. Because Steve knows it would blow his whole house of cards to smithereens.

Well not to mention you have no grounds for a law suit. And you've probably just increased Debbies site hits tenfold at least.

You all look pretty stupid and immature having a fit about what you perceive as wrong, yet your all lowering yourselves to her level with your snide comments and threats to call and harrass her. If anyone has grounds for a lawsuit, its Debbie.

"ummmmmmmmmmmmm Sofyan isnt palestinian....lol....assumptions much?

UMMMMMMMMMMMMM, HE'S JORDANIAN, WHICH MEANS HE'S ALMOST CERTAINLY PALESTINIAN, AS UPWARDS OF 75% OF ALL JORDANIANS ARE, IN FACT, PALESTINIANS............LOL..........KNOWLEDGE MUCH.
DEBBIE SCHLUSSEL"

woooooow You are so naive...do u know anything of middle eastern people....yes 60% of people LIVING in jordan are palestinian....that doesnt disregard the people living there who didnt immigrate there....but my husband was born and raised there, as were his parents, decents of their jordanian parents, who were decents of their jordanian parents...and so on....your sooo dumb....wait, go live there for a year, learn my husbands ancestry since your soooo concerned ....then you might have the right to make judgements, until then....Go to hell

Gumby,
If Steve is indeed the site owner and moderator of visajourney still, I believe the members would rejoice instead of be mad. It would be a great thing.

Not all are lowering themselves to her level (so by saying that all are lowering themselves down to her level, you'd agree she got down and dirty?).

I have no idea why you would wish to divulge your wealth of info on this website. I have a feeling most visajourney members would not be bothered with the information you are divulging. If Steve was still in charge, it'd sound like good news.

Why you are defending the article so staunchly, is another mystery we may not find out about.

All I can do is to nicely ask Debbie to take down the pictures.

This is a message from my Moroccan husband in response to this outrage:

Look,I am a Muslim and I treat my wife the best possible way....I prey 5 times a day ...before I pray I wash my body completely including my a&^ (5 times a day) and I am sure that my a$% is cleaner then your mouth...It is difficult to understand these things but believe me that this is the only truth...I hope that you will do some thinking on this subject...I think that your post is a sign of desperation and a cry for some attention...from a proud moroccan - JAMAL

Gumby,

I mentioned nothing of a law suit on VJ or on this forum. A simple request has been made to remove these photos per the request of the girls. I do not feel that to be unreasonable. Others can have their opinions and they are entitled so please do not group those thoughts in with mine.

You know far too much not to be active on VJ so please do not insult my intelligence by implying you have not been on there for over a year. How exactly did you find this thread then? The information you have could not be gleaned in 5 minutes, which means you either are an active poster or you lurk. The purpose of which is still unknown and you dodged that question as well.

For someone with such strong opinions, I wonder why you fear giving out your true identity. Surely if your beliefs are as firm as you state, you would have no problem with people knowing who they came from.

The traitor comment stands. You frequent VJ on some basis and have now attacked it in a different forum. The people that post on there could very well be your friends for all we know. But we don't know do we? The reason is that you will not reveal yourself. So please, help me understand how you are not a traitor. Your actions seem to indicate as much.

I don't know the owner nor do I have any tangible information proving the existance of the alligations against Steve. I would like to see your evidence as well to substantiate your claim. I think that is fair and within reason.

What is your fear in revealing your identity?

Spud -

I'm defending her right to express her OPINION. You all seem to forget that this is her OPINION! No where has she stated that she has evidence that the people mentioned are committing any kind of immigration fraud. It's her OPINION that women in the US with low self esteem who are often times overweight are most often those who middle eastern men prey upon when trying to gain entry into the US. Not a damn thing wrong with stating that.

And who in their right mind marries someone after only chatting with them on the internet? I mean really, come on. There is nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade and that's what Debbie has done and it's all she's done.

It's you folks who have turned this into the world cup of pissing matches and it will be you folks who are to blame should anything happen to Visa Journey.

Bully for Steve if he's to be welcomed out of the shadows and can do away with all the foney ID's and be honest about why he did what he did. Why the lies though about handing the site over if he didn't do anything wrong? Why can't you type the phrase "My advice to you" if there's nothing wrong with it, implied or otherwise?

I can't see him jumping up and filing a lawsuit over an OPINION.

And why is it so wrong for an American woman to be concerned over how many men from middle eastern countries which are predominantly Islamic and Muslim, many of which are radicals, why is it so wrong for her to be concerned over these men pouring over our borders. Look at JennPrincess' post. Kinda brings Debbie's point home all the more.

ella74ny:

"Look,I am a Muslim and I treat my wife the best possible way....I prey 5 times a day"

Does your Moroccan husband prey 5 times a day on myspace.com too?

Merc

I fail to see the importance in who I am or am not. But I’m not Mr. Udall. Don’t know how many times I can state that before going blue in the face.

Why don’t you contact any one of the people I’ve mentioned above, they all know the whole story and one especially is easy enough to find.

Sassycat= Marleene Shaw
Bopeep = Aubrey Watters
Gemmacat = Christina Allan
Flyergirl = Tam Shiebental
Rubywine= Pauline Buzwell
Darb = Claudette Smith
Ewok/Wookie/Steve/jamienluv/kewl= Stephen Palik

Aubrey is easy enough to find, well she was for me anyhow. She writes books and is a DJ in Portland Maine who just had a baby. Sibsie, another former VJ moderator was the one who told me that it was Aubrey who was the one who banned Mr. Udall from the site and that the other women above took part in harassing and haranguing him.

Why are they still helping Steve hide who he really is and keep up the huge charade? If UPL isn’t bad or isn’t happening on VJ then why the huge farce?

Again, this is why nothing will come of your cries to flog Debbie in a court of law. It would likely bring VJ down and well it should be. And those people responsible for alienating an lawyer who was only trying to help those genuinely seeking to immigrate to the US should be the ones who face litigation. And I’ll do whatever I can to help.

Gumby,

You are diverting this argument from the real issue. The issue was not with her opinion but rather with her representation of the facts and the deplorable nature in which information regarding our sisters misused and represented on this forum.

We simply ask that these photos are removed.

As for your beef with the prior owner of VJ, I don't know what to tell you. The environment there today is one of support. It is not a perfect family and we have our fights, but we manage to get through it and carry on. Your past beef should remain just that....in the past.

Even bringing up that argument is a shameless attempt to divert attention away from the real issue. The photos should be removed and your identity (for your own credibility sake) should be revealed.

Your agenda regarding VJ really has no place here nor in this discussion.

Ms. Schlussel can have her opinion as she is entitled. However, it is respectfully requested that this is not done at the expense of unknowing victims. All we ask is for the photos to be removed.

As I've stated....this is not an unreasonable request and any good person of faith would comply.

"Does your Moroccan husband prey 5 times a day on myspace.com too?"

There is no purpose in such a comment other than to incite anger. Inciting anger is a tactic of terrorists. I find it ironic that you choose to use terrorism tactics on this board yet profess your hatred for it.

Gumby, if you are not Udall you should try to stop sounding like him. It is clear you know VJ very well, so you must be very familiar with Udall's posts and his style. Do the exact opposite and pull it off long enough and maybe.. just maybe.. I will believe you are not Matt Udall.

"I fail to see the importance in who I am or am not."

If it was not important to you then you would reveal your identity. Since you have not, that implies you have something to hide. People that have something to hide should not ask for trust. Your stories and accusations would be given credibility if you would identify yourself. Otherwise, how could any kind of discussion really take place.

You come to us with accusations and no evidence and try to steer this forum into something it is not supposed to be. Do you object to having the pictures removed from this site?

Merc you and I obviously don't speak the same language. Yes there were statements about legal action. There's a thread in the site discussion area and Ewok is looking into it. I stated that this would never fly and he'd do little more than request to have the pictures and timeline info removed because he doens't want to find himself in a huge legal battle where everything comes out in the open.

But that's not all that you guys on VJ did. You're sitting there, a lynch mob at the ready (and boy VJ sure is good at that) just chomping at the bit to tear apart Debbie for her opinion. You say what she did was low? Well is it not just as low to post pictures of her that mock her and then make defamatory statements about her and to ice the cake, publicly state that your (not you but charlesnessa) is looking into her age, etc in order to see if he has her phone number and then call her and give her crap about this? That kiddies is malicious intent and can be prosecuted where as you can't litigate Debbie for an opinion.

And I have every right to state what I've stated and have backed it up. Who I am is of no importance. If your so riled up about protecting VJ then why not know the truth about who runs it and why and why not take some responsibility for protecting yourselfs from UPL. Because when push comes to shove, aint Steve or no one else running that site gonna protect you.

"And those people responsible for alienating an lawyer who was only trying to help those genuinely seeking to immigrate to the US should be the ones who face litigation. And I’ll do whatever I can to help."

Finally the truth comes out. Was it that hard? How long has it been, really? Isn't it time to let this go and allow the people of that forum to live in peace. You don't see anyone complaining.

It is disgusting that your motivation for posting was solely for the purpose of vengenence against VJ. I just don't understand the depth of your beef and why you insist on lurking on the site and carrying out these actions. Surely there must be a better outlet for your energy than this.

This issue is about photos on this site and the misuse thereof.

The photos should be removed. For the sake of the women involved I hope you agree. The request is reasonable given the circumstances.

"There is no purpose in such a comment other than to incite anger."

Was I "inciting anger" here? Maybe you're right.... I forgot that they are very short-tempered out there (maybe its the desert heat). Silly me, how could I forget their violent reactions to the cartoons and other trivial issues?

Oh man you had to bring up the cartoons. Touche, what can I say?

"Merc you and I obviously don't speak the same language"

Finally we agree.....my intent is to get these photos removed for my sisters. Your intent is to profess your hatred of VJ and it's prior owners over some beef about a lawyer that got ejected a very long time ago.

We are speaking a different language.

I'm not here to defend actions taken back on VJ for things that are posted. I am only asking for photos to be removed. Simple request really that has nothing to do with Steve or the past VJ regime.

You're the only one that keeps bringing that up. I'm defending these girls and their honor. You are taking that as defending VJ.

We can debate that separately, but for now I'd like you to join me in asking Debbie to take these pictures down.

Do I object to having pictures removed from this blog? No, not in principle. She posted images that were copyrighted on another message board and she cut and pasted without permission of the board. Big deal. I see far too much of that on VJ as it is. I can’t even count the number of times I’ve seen information posted with no credit given to who ever authored it or the website it was pulled from.

So Debbie removes the pictures and timeline info (and really, how stupid is that to post that info publicly anywhere. People on VJ will never learn). And her words are still there. Her statements are still there. Her opinion will still remain the same.

I don’t see why anyone gets so upset unless there’s some truth in her words? If it makes these women think twice then that can’t possibly be a bad thing now can it. All one has to do is go and read JenPrincess’ thread and that’s reason enough to reevaluate the relationship. And that’s not a bad thing to do in a time when all these radicals have a – to quote someone on VJ- serious “hate on” for Americans.

Or would you rather we open our borders to anyone and everyone? Why not scrutinize these men and these relationships as thoroughly as possible so as to avoid another 9/11?

And for the love of god I am not Mr. Udall. I am just someone who was very sorry to see him run off the site the way he was and even sorrier to see all too much misinformation being posted on a website that’s supposed to be devoted to education and information. But apparently some folks out there fancy themselves lawyers and immigration experts

"apparently some folks out there fancy themselves lawyers and immigration experts"

OK....I'm seriously trying to understand why you are so upset with VJ.

From what I gather so far.....you were friends (I guess?) with the lawyer that was booted. You thought he gave good advice and was trying to help people. OK...fair enough.

Now you believe that people are on the site attempting to be lawyers and immigration experts.

OK that means you are visiting the site. Do you have an example (again, I'm trying to understand this better) of where this is happening or who is doing it?

"I don’t see why anyone gets so upset unless there’s some truth in her words?"

BTW - I'm upset because these are good people and my friends. I have no ties or affiliations to anything in the Middle East. My only interest is in the people that are on the board and their well being. The reason for getting upset was the unauthorized posting of photos with those terribly insulting captions. She can say what she wants but take the pics off.

You said you have been through this process....where is your SO from? Wouldn't you be upset if you were in this position?

merc, don't ask for examples of UPL. VJ and britishexpats.com are full of them.

Actually, britishexpats.com is a much worse offender in that regard.

"merc, don't ask for examples of UPL"

why? like I said....I'm trying to understand the outrage here....that's all

You have to admit, gumby is pretty p/o. There has to be some good reason for that.

I'm not an unreasonable person. Proof of the claim is fair in my opinion.

merc, it detracts from what you're trying to accomplish. The pictures. The pictures. UPL can wait.

"merc, it detracts from what you're trying to accomplish. The pictures. The pictures. UPL can wait"

Agreed, but it seems Ms. Schlussel has no intention thus far. Certainly there has been plenty of time to remove these pictures. I think that really speaks volumes about a person's character to be honest.

Please Ms. Schlussel, remove the photos.

Maybe someone should post about this on Kos? They'd love to beat up on a wingnut like debbie.

Left wing, right wing.....I think all reasonable people would agree this was wrong. There is an opportunity to do some correction and at least make a gesture by taking these photos down.

Put yourself in her shoes. Why would you, after all this?

I notice that none of those "VJ" women who married and immigrated their men on K-1 visas, which provides a 2 year "conditional" visa, have yet reached their 2 year date for the filing of the removal of conditions. This (with some exceptions) requires both husband and wife to file together; if application is approved, husband is awarded his permanent green card.

CIS could probably staff a dedicated phone line to take all the bewildered phone calls from US citizen spouses whose suddenly departed spouse decided to leave, or whose attitude and personality changed dramatically after the 2 yr date, followed by arguments, fights, departure or divorce following a seemingly idyllic relationship. Or the angry calls from spouses whose pride has been hurt, who believe the authorities can just rush right in and deport their wandering hubby, only to find it's too late; papers were filed and approved; spuse is here permanently, thanks.

To be fair, I am not only speaking solely of Middle Eastern men, though marrying a citizen is an easier and faster way for any intending genuine immigrant or fraudster with no other way to enter the US - happens just as frequently with other nationalities, a few more frequently than others, where there are virtual industries catering to poor, desperate, would-be immigrants and are made aware the ticket to the US can be fast-tracked though a quickie courtship and marriage, much of it lacking any serious personal interaction before the marriage to a US citizen, and bank on the US citizens almost certain naivite.

Nor are scenarios like these the rule rather than the exception, but the fact is, there are people out there who know how to play the game, and are people who teach others how to play the game to obtain a coveted and prized US green card, and play it well, no matter the harm to the naive citizen spouse. These unpleasant scenarios happen, just watch out.

"Put yourself in her shoes. Why would you, after all this?"

Anyone that professes to be a person of faith is obligated by the duty to do right. To do otherwise is to insult your religion and mock it's meaning in your own life.

That is my feeling on this matter. Call it what you will.

Merc you do love to hear yourself talk, don’t you?

I get it, you’re out to protect the little women on VJ who can’t protect themselves who’ve been called fat and unattractive and due to their low self esteem are targets for unsavory type men from the middle east. I get it already.

Ok so, Debbie takes the photos down, then what? Still going to circle the wagons and throw a rope over the old oak tree? What will satisfy you?

It’s really been interesting to see you all turn on one another out there. Quite the cat-fight going on.

I don’t have a hate-on for VJ. I do have problems with the site and many others like it being used to give advice when those proffering the advice are neither educated or or authorized to give it. And whom are these people you ask? Good lord man, are you blind? All you have to do is read posts from some of VJ’s more prolific posters, Arijit/Agent Smith, Diadromous Mermaid, Meauxna, Yodrak, Auusiewench, etc to see for yourself how these folks give case-specific advice in some of the most complicated scenarios. And it’s the same over at British Expats. At least, as I stated before they weren’t able to run off Mr. Udall and Mr. Folinksy from British Expats.

Sassycat, Bopeep and Gemmacat were also notorious for playing “armchair lawyers”. It’s a good thing those women don’t post anymore. They were a danger to the community, not to mention made other people feel left out and not part of said community. And their still at it. All you have to do is read Bopeeps blog and does she go on about how they still get together. http://www.ameribritbaby.blogspot.com And if she posts another picture of her fat baby I’ll just kill myself. That child is neither cute, pretty or even remotely attractive and her mom needs to realize that. Some babies just aren’t pretty. Hopefully she’ll be smart to make up for being such an obese child. But then if she’s like her mom, there’s really no hope for her.

Hey, that’s a good example. People need to be careful about posting their pictures on the web be it babies or couples. It opens you up to scrutiny and comments, be they negative or positive. I think this is a lesson learned on all sides.

"Merc you do love to hear yourself talk, don?t you? "

You can beat me up, I don't mind at all. Although, please keep in mind that you are enabling the continuation of this conversation to a great extent so it goes both ways.

"etc to see for yourself how these folks give case-specific advice in some of the most complicated scenarios."

I can't tell you how many times those people have said to contact an immigration attorney so I'm not sure that is totally fair.

What is your problem with people offering a description of their experience with immigration. I asked a lot of stupid noob type questions in the beginning. How is any of this harming individuals and if it is happening then why doesn't anyone hear about it?

I think your claim on VJ is a little off. I heard stories about those old days and people are very careful to say "contact and immigration attorney". It happens all the time.

Were you burned by someone? Is that why you get so angry about people giving advice?

"Were you burned by someone? Is that why you get so angry about people giving advice?"

No. VJ makes it less likely people will need the services of charlatans like him. You know which attorneys end up with practices based solely on immigration law? The ones that graduate at the bottom of their classes. The scum at the bottle of the attorney pool.

Really? And where are your statistics to back up your statement about attorneys who graduate at the bottom of their class practising immigration law?

That's quite the generalization you've got going.

It's all good though. People can just go on posting on sites like VJ, British Expats and the rest about what exactly to do to get someone into the country and years from now we'll still be dealing with terrorists and extremists from radical Islamic nations wanting to tear down our country and destroy all we hold dear.

And this is just an assumption on my part, but I believe Mr. Udall is based in California and I doubt he wants to take immigration aid websites down because they detract from his business. He's in the land of the illegals after all, I'm sure he's got plenty to keep him busy. But I bet he and many others like him tire of having to clean up the mess left behind by people who took the advice they got on VJ or other websites and it caused problems, delays, RFE's and the like.

"But I bet he and many others like him tire of having to clean up the mess left behind by people who took the advice they got on VJ or other websites and it caused problems, delays, RFE's and the like. "

Wouldn't that create more business for him? That argument is a little suspect, you'd have to admit.

So....your beef with VJ and other sites is that it enables terrorists to get into the country? What if those people used a lawyer instead of VJ? Are lawyers screening their clients to deter terrorism? I think that argument is suspect as well.

Your beef lies elswhere because those reasons quite frankly do not make sense to me.

It's a shame you still do not wish to identify yourself.

If nothing else we have proven that you cannot possibly be a lawyer. You'd probably be happy if VJ was shut down....the question is why? I believe that is still unanswered. You must have something to gain in that scenario or you have a geniune dislike for the people involved. Hmmm....two sites though? That's a pretty big beef you've got going there.

One question:

You said you know this system inside and out. I take it that means you went through this process. Did you use an immigration attorney?

You chicks are a dime a dozen. If you're not throwing Bibles at people or picketing abortion clinics or funerals of fallen soldiers shouting they deserve to die, then you're sitting on your lazy backsides searching the internet for people you don't have any clue about to attack, and it's normally because of some miserable aspect of your own personal lives. What's the matter, Deb? Did you realize the man you gave a lap dance too one night and who rescued you from your life of misery only married you to cook his dinner while he clicks his remote control or tells you he's out playing cards with Joe when really he's letting little Candy girl do exactly what you did for him before he gave your pitiful self a ring? ....Or, did you meet your better half at a KKK rally? ...Or, maybe even in the front pew of a church while you were raising your hands to the heavens and speaking in tongues? Did he say to himself, "Now there is a gullible one. I can marry her, slap her around a few times, get her to wash my clothes, pop out my babies, maybe even mow my lawn, and I can keep on doing what I'm doing right now."
Not that it's any business of yours, but I have known my fiance for 3 years, for 1 year before I went to meet him, and then divorced the sorry American I was married to for too many years. If it was possible, after he's here and we're married long past the time you're into your third divorce, I'd send you a sympathy card, but then , that would make me just like you, and since I'm not, this will be the only time you ever hear from me. Instead of judging others you don't know, keep an eye on your kids while their sneaking around smoking dope or doing things they swear to you they never do and you're buying it all. You have your own life. Try to live it. We'll be happy with ours whether you like it or not. I would say that most American men I have met are not worthy of me, and believe me I could have had my choices, but that would be judging all by just a handful of jerks and that's what you do. I searched myself and found my decent and honorable man. He didn't search and find me. The small percentage of Muslim extremists who search to meet American women are so small it's laughable and certainly not worthy of the time in a blog, just as the small percentage of idiots like you are laughable, but I was certainly happy to take these 2 minutes with my coffee here before I forget all about you and tell you I feel so very sorry for you. Have a nice life, if you can. Ciao.

"oh come on now Canadian Infidel, those women she openly mocks did not agree to be part of an article. She is certainly free to say what she wants, but a respected journalist/blogger sticks to facts and does not prey on people to get a point across."

But these people are a part of the article because they are members of Visa Journey and represent just what the point of the opinion piece was about. And is showing pictures and time lines mocking? No, visuals add to the story to make it more comprehensible. Now if you mean the word zaftig, whats wrong with it? It means pleasantly plump, juicy, a well developed figure, or carrying your extra weight well. Is the word used improperly? Looking at some of the pictures I would say no, and it is clarified that many, not all of these woman are zaftig. Are the facts wrong? Well, I have seen no real clarification on that matter in the above thread, just anger and hurt feelings for having pictures and personal experiences used without the persons permission. But permission is not needed as you have openly posted to the public domain, and false credit or misrepresentation of the pictures and time lines has not been taken for they all correspond with the information posted on the Visa Journey web site.

'...and I have yet to see any kind of slander or bigotry from the host of this site.'

"Did you read the article or did you just read the comments and decided to put in your 2 cents worth?"

I read it. I think it is you would have not, or read it in the throws of hysteria. They say the truth hurts, could this be an instance?

I have to say that this blog just makes me laugh and mad at the same time. It is people like you that are making our country more racist than it is right now. So you know any men from these countries? I seriously doubt it by the comments you make. You are an attorney? Obvious not a very good one to not know the copyright laws eh? You can go off about american women and arab men till you are blue in the face. Now regarding this girl, does she not have parents to realise she was off to the middle east? Someone needs to take some responsiblity in this matter which is NOT the happily married women with our wonderful arab men.

mercuryLoad;debbie pissed off the religion of hate na na na na na na.

Whatever side of this argumnet your on, everyone should admit that Debbie does bring up sone points that are based in fact.There are people who r defrauding women to get here. Everyone should take that with a grain of salt and instead of thinking its not your relationship, look thru with impartial eyes.

The pictures and insults, are not cool tho,at all.

hrmmmmmmm0123: muslim hate ...muslim's got to be watched in every aspect .Their love of allah's teachings of death to all non-muslims is all that matters.Fuck your (p c) coolness, the security and lives of all non- muslims depends on watching and SHOWING what arab men are up to.expose all their actions,save your cool,it's lucky Debbie S. is around. Killing american's 9/11 is only the start for them.Try and cool your way around of that.

Yeah danny! You sure showed them!

CAN YOU PLEASE TAKE DOWN MY INFORMATION, PICTURES, AND THE FALSE FACTS YOU PUT UP ABOUT MY HUSBAND AND MYSELF.

Danny don't be like a hyper poodle yipping at everyone just because you feel cornered. It is true there are foreigners who are using women for greencards.It's true that not all do. How long is a piece of string?

You need to stop coming across so fanatical...after all, nothing is really ever black and white. What to do then, with all the American Muslims? What do you propose? hrmmm??? Or is your problem only with foreign Muslims? Got news for you, the problem of terrorism has no real face, it could be anyone, including home grown American terrorists of any race or religion.

Stop swinging in the dark and try a little perspective, please.

hrmmmmo12:When dealing with muslim hate you CANNOT BE TO FANATICAL.Perspective my fu..ing ass.Black + white, hate is hate and they hate big time.Pull that head out of the sand.Next will be a dirty bomb or just as horrible.What a fool.What a fu..ing fool.

Wow, your comments actually are terrifying.

So you didn't answer me...what do you propose be done with American Muslims? And what do you mean by 'cannot be too fanatical'??

Yes, hate is hate as you've displayed perfectly. But please answer the questions.

TO ALL :This is not the first nor will it be the last time debbie s. exposes your muslim actions.Cu- sa-muck

Funnily enough, I'm not a Muslim, nor is my fiancee. I did not meet my fiancee over the internet, and neither one of us come from a Middle Eastern backround. So stop confusing the issue here.

Now this is the third time I'm asking you....these questions are culled straight from your posts here. Your refusal to answer is embarrassing. But here is your last chance to stand behind your words.

If all Muslims are dangerous, what do you propose we do with American-born Muslims? what do you mean when you say you can 'never be too fanatical' when it comes to dealing with Muslim hate (which according to you all Muslims have)? Are you saying that you promote hate crimes on the Muslim community? What are you really saying here?

Here is your opportunity to speak your opinion with a captive audience. I am listening. No bs no insults....stand on the platform of your ideas. You are free to say and write whatever you want, but shouldn't you be able to back up your comments and opinions with substance? Don't resort to throwing out emotion-based insults. It degrades the validity of your argument.

na na na na na na. Blow me.

that's class right there, lol

nevermind! :)

Whoever you are. You're significant enough to prompt a response from me. Regarding VJ. First of all, Agent, yes - 18 years with the feds. Complicated senerios? On who's terms? Yours? (I laugh, you're quite simple right?) Support your issue better...1) legal issues are NOT exclusive to lawyers (grow up and be a Citizen of OUR country)...2) Aussiewench gets her info from ME (and I have more legal experience with U. S. Immigrations laws, procedures and protocal than YOU and 89% of lawyers and Immigration officers)...3) It's always easy to critize, makes nice tabloid sales, but you don't know half the story (do you?). Anyway, nice to see you looking at the VJ site...scrutiny is an American priviledge, excercise it with vigor AND CARE.
DJ Smith
Special Agent
DOHS - Retired

Good to see you Bond! :) Thumbs up... :) M.

It never ceases to amaze me how people can claim they are intelligent and educated, yet blatently contradict these claims in their actions when it comes to "hot button" issues.

This thread is a perfect example of this. We start with Debbie offering a very strong, even somewhat venomous opinion regarding a group of women, their relationships, and a website.

She describes these women as "on the more zaftig side--difficult to attract American men's attention", " vulnerable women, desperate for attention, are extremely gullible" and "They are just some of those born to P.T. Barnum's predicted birthrate of suckers". Yet..she's never met these women, spoken to them, or had any contact with them, she does not know them or anything about them..aside from the extremely limited information she included above.

How does one conclude this then form an intellegent opinion about someone they know nothing about..based solely on the extremely limited information seen above? Logic and reason would make that impossible, there is insufficient data to base any valid conclusion on. It's impossible to form an intelligent opinion about an issue if one does not have valid information, facts, and knowledge..ie; an intelligent opinion is an educated opinion. In this situation there is not sufficent information to form an intelligent opinion.

They say opinions are like a--holes, everyone has one, but that's not entirely true. Often people borrow the opinions of others, and claim them as their own...note this portion of a post on here by Canadian Infidel "One curious thing I did see on the Visa Journey sight (and here the name says it all: where is the LOVE) was a woman named "gimygirl" who used a Darwin Fish as her symbol. Natural Selection and Islam are both at extreme ends of each other, and not even remotely compatible". Canadian was obviously assuming Debbies reference using visajourney as an example of this statement: "there are websites for the specific purpose of Muslim men from terror-host nations meeting and marrying American women" was a valid, given fact and never considered any other possibility...thus her confusion over gimygirl's Darwin fish..she ASSUMED..but gimygirls SO isn't muslim..or arab..he's a Br