....I'm not too sure I'd want to tackle a guy whose holding/using a 'Rambo-knife'.....unless I had a baseball bat.....or a Desert Eagle. A bus is a confined environment, and this animal was already stabbing/hacking away at the passenger. The passenger was probably already beyond help after the 2nd or 3rd stab. The guy was described as 'calm', but no physical description is given. The screaming, the blood, the panic......I can't fault the passengers for this one.

I normally agree with you on most things but on this you are wrong. The knife that was used would have put the victim beyond help by the third stabbing.
By the time the other passengers knew what was happening the guy was beyond help. The only thing to do is to get everyone of the bus and contained the killer.

The vermin Liberals have turned most people into sheeple. We are disarmed and the predators are armed. No wonder no one did anything to stop this maniac. Liberalism is a mental disorder. They should lock them up with their precious murdering anti-social mental cases.

Deb, I love your site and come here every day.
However.....Richard Reid did not possess a knife. He was a much easier target to take down. I'm not sure the same could be said were he brandishing a 'Rambo knife'. I also would not consider any of these bus passengers as 'scaredy-cats'. The story states that he came after the passengers while brandishing the knife. And despite that, they did not flee. They blocked his escape. (Yes, they fled the bus, but they made sure he didn't get away.)

Google 'Rambo knife' and take a look at what appears.

On the other hand, that man who stomped that little boy to death a few weeks ago should have been beaten to death. That task should have been easy, as he had no weapon.

To be fair it could happen anywhere, but probably even more so in America, Jr.

After all, they have so much of the Frenchy influence, and WE KNOW how zee French surennders at the drop of a hat and hope America does their dirty work.

Then, what a stupid country that sends us losers like Pam Anderson, Celine Dion, Michael J. Fox, and Bryan Adams among others and ends every single sentence with "Eh?"

Debbie I think you're absolutely right on this one - how is it that the passengers cannot carry a concealed gun, but can carry what sounds like a machete? Maybe the bus driver should've been armed...if passengers knew their bus drivers were armed, wouldn't they be less prone to acts of violence?

Debbie,

I struggled with the same thing early this morning. I am familiar with the weapon used and it is damn formidable. However, a quick thinking American probably would have smashed this cat on the head with something strong enough to crush his skull a bit. I agree with FIVEOFNINE, that poor boy was in grave trouble after the first stab wound, but at least his body would have retained its human dignity. As to the barbarian, nothing said about who/what/or where regarding him. Considering the Canadian psychology, I just have to assume he's a muslim affiliated nut-job. Sorry, I now suspect them all for everything, especially since just about every vicious murder can be traced to them. By the way, anyone heard that they got Aymin Zawahiri?

Debbie:

It has already happened in America, more than once. When I worked in NYC (during the 70s and 80s) it happed on several occasions. Once, a man waited in an ally and jumped out to ask passersby for money. Those that gave were allowed to pass. Those that refused where knifed to death and dragged into the alley. Some pedestrians saw what was happening and either crossed the street or paid up. Dozens paid up while others stood across the street and watched. My memory isn't perfect but I think he killed four or more before police were called.

[FL: YES, AND THERE'S THE RAPE/MURDER OF KITTY GENOVESE. BUT I'M TALKING ABOUT TODAY, NOT THEN. WOULD IT BE DIFFERENT, OR WORSE? DS]

Pussies!!!! On the bus and posting here. "I'm scared of someone with a knife..." COWARDS!!!!

There are lots of ways to take a knife away. How about some MEN stepping up, you know, like more than one? How about throwing a blanket over him? How about a tire iron? Bussess do hae them. Canadians=pussies.

Pussies. I couldn't agree more.

http://freemendo.typepad.com/undaunted/2008/08/exact-change-pl.html

Reminds me of the murders at McGill University, where a French Muslim murdered all those nurses after removing the men from the area. The men milled around outside the murder scene, not helping. A nation of emasculates.

Debbie - they did a study about this and when there's a group of people around a potential victim, it tends to diffuse their sense of moral responsibility. No one feels they have to respond. By contrast if there's just one decent person around, only one - the odds are good he will act because there's no one else to serve as an alibi for inaction. There's something about crowds that makes it easy for criminals to get with away with a crime with impunity and that prevents individuals from doing the right thing. The Kitty Genovese case and that of Tim McLean will not be the last nor the first such situations where large numbers of people stand by and do nothing.

As for a gun, I highly recommend you get one! You should be armed, Debbie and its great equalizer. You might never need it but you can be thankful when you do since crimes don't always happen in what people like to think of as "bad" areas. A bus, for example, is the first place people don't think of being a murder scene. So forearmed is forewarned.

Debbie - in the 1960s people still had traditional values. That's the world I was born into. So it might have been possible to write off what happened to Kitty Genovese as an aberration. I don't think we can take comfort today since society has changed so dramatically. Its like people no longer know what right and wrong means. That's why I'm not really shocked this happened.

Man up, people. This isn't going to stroll away into the sunset.

Well the first two posts are either earth worshipping libs or Canadians. I guess if the guy is wounded we should just allow the bastard to enjoy his human remains lunch. I am also going to assume that everyone on the bus and the first two posters are NOT card carrying concealed weapon permit holders. Translated, that makes them all sheeple for the next maniac with a $10 knife their personal executioner. On the other hand me and my Glock 27 40 caliber pistol will be writing a statement at the police station and going out for a stiff tequila with friends to celebrate planting a homicidal maniac.
On the other hand in Israel a maniac attacks a bus with a forklift and when the po po are standing there in shock a young man comes forward and blows his brains out.
Also when a partner of mine is attacked by an inmate I am the gentleman that acts to subdue the attacker, immediately.

Well…interesting replies.

THIS STORY should become the “poster child” for allowing Canadians to carry concealed weaponry.

This lunatic could easily have turned on the other passengers as well! Sheer luck, that he didn’t. How could they have stopped that? By returning fire from concealed weaponry!!!

The trucker had the right idea, he was the hero here, but psychotics can be difficult to contain. A handgun would have brought quick resolution to the matter.

A nation that allows bones from aircrash victims to remain in a farmer’s field (Flight 621) for thirty-eight years…produces cops that don’t understand the affront to human decency and thereby allow a perp to consume the flesh of his victim while they stood down, and watched.

Was there somehow more entertainment in allowing the freak to manifest his illness entirely? Those officers certainly disgraced the proud RCMP tradition.

There are many brave Canadians my American friends…just none that happened to be at that scene.

Guitar guy should sell a guitar and go buy a nice compact glock. That guitar ain't doing much for your families safety or your masculinity at this point.
Don't bring a knife to a gun fight.

Yea, what samurai said. The Canadien, too, eh.

My, my, my first of all Debbie you paint everybody in Canada as socialists. May I remind you that our current Prime Minister is a Conservative.
Second, it's easy to sound so brave when you're outside looking in. I'm sure all of you "bashers" would have been right in there shooting the crap out of this guy if you were there.
Jeff_W why don't you go play hide and go "F" yourself. There are more losers in the entertainment business from the USA than from Canada you pantload "eh"!

[TFH: CANADIANS USE THE WORD "CONSERVATIVE" VERY LIBERALLY. CANADA'S "CONSERVATIVES" ARE LIKE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS COMPARED TO THE AMERICAN DEFINITION OF CONSERVATIVE. THE REST OF THE CANADIAN POLITICAL PARTIES ARE LIKE SOCIALISTS. DS]

I'm with The Canadien... lots of brave Canucks, God bless them, everyone.

Methinks we have a few people on this thread who have a Dylan Avery mentality. ("The hijackers had boxcutters? Measly little boxcutters...? HAHAHAHAHA!!!! I woulda kicked their asses and laughed at them!")
I'm neither a lib nor a Canadian, nor a card-carrier.
And Samurai, your glock would've been useless had you been sleeping next to that guy. And forget the glock for a moment...what would you have done?How would you have nailed this guy (sans Glock)?
Crowbar? Tire iron?
From where?
You'd have to get off the bus to get access to them.
You're on a crowded bus....people begin screaming (and you don't know why)....it's a madhouse in a confined space.....what do you do?
A guitar is made of solid maple and ash.....makes a real good club.....the guitar's case would also do damage...

But I don't rely on my guitar to define my masculinity, Samurai....
...but if you need your Glock to reinforce yours.....welllll....

....and let's try a 'what if' news blurb:
"The passengers had blocked the assailant inside the bus, but let him out (before the Police arrived) so they could beat him to death. However, several of the passengers were seriously maimed before the Police could subdue him. Three passengers lost a limb, and two received life-threatening injuries when their arteries were severed."

Better?

Wow. Amazing how you can judge others that are in the midst of a horrific, unthinkable crime all from the comfort of your laptop. Debbie, isn't a more apt definition of a coward someone who can't even spell out the word God? What exactly is G-d? How brave of you to ask G-d to bless them, all the while degrading Canada and stereotyping it's citizens. Based on past facts you would most likely be the first to cry "anti-semitism" if someone "stereotyped" you a whiny, ignorant Jew.

But yes, it is apprarent from your picture that you haven't run from a knife.

Dear retard (Posted by: JPCG at August 1, 2008 05:46 PM)

Being an errant ignoramus, like yourself, does have its drawbacks. Observant Jews don't spell the G-word because, according to tradition, if the G-word is on an object that can be destroyed, then its equivalent to destroying the Lord. Its a sign of respect numbnuts.

Also, Debbie is right, Canadian are diffident feckless creatures. They certainly lack a backbone as evidenced by this incident. Oh, and its not bigotry to make fun of a nationality you schmuck, since nationalites comprise diverse ethnicities. Its apparent from YOUR post, that you would run from a knife. Which just proves my point. Canadians are pussies.

Guitar guy, and thejcpg or whatever your face is. I haven't had the pleasure of combat with a knife wielding maniac but I work in a prison everyday and use my hands or objects in defense of myself and others, believe it or not. I have never ran FROM an attack and have the scars to prove it, idiots. Not from my laptop do I feel better. I feel satisfaction after a fight by smoking a cigar outside the unit with a fellow warrior that just assisted in keeping some would be convict from hurting a nurse or other officer. Guitar guy and Jcpg go f--k your cowardly selves and thanks for the Molson and the cheap oil. I would recommend checking out Commando Krav Maga on youtube or google. That may help you understand the world we live in today at least MY world you limp wristed sissies. Without the Glock I would possibly still have seen the attack brewing from the beginning. Possibly an unresolved argument from their smoke break. Maybe the guy goes into his luggage for something with a little extra gusto. Little things give away attackers intentions to a trained observer, like myself, you pansy. A piece of luggage or a large handbag could be employed to nail a guy in the head from behind or the side. A ball point pen to the neck. Judging from the police response the rest of Canada's response in being heroic, you people are in fact quite like the french with the surrender or surrender motto.

Why blame the passengers? By the time they could register what was happening, the victim was surely dead. He was not beheaded until some time after already being killed. If you want to brand a group of cowards, how about the police? The CNN story said there was a stand-off of several hours before he was captured after breaking a window and attempting to climb out. What were the dozens of armed cops doing for several hours? Probably, hiding behind their cars waiting for him to come out. The passengers were more proactive than the police.

I know there are some bad dudes from Canada. George St. Pierre, David Louasou. But you pansies know who you are. A lot of UFC fighters come from up north. You guys need some guns though.

Posted by: softwaregurus
[Oh, and its not bigotry to make fun of a nationality you schmuck, since nationalites comprise diverse ethnicities.]

You stupid twit, softwaregurus! Go look up the word 'bigotry' if you know how to read.

To all Canadian readers, I'm sorry you have to read such crap. I'm embarrassed that so many conservative Americans are very stupid, arrogant, and bigoted. Hopefully come this year's election, good Americans will prevail.

Retard? ignoramus? Thanks for the Molson? No comment. By the way I'm a US citizen, but I do love Canada. And I think the definition of bigotry is your exact wording above?
I agree with pokermik, blaming the passengers is absurd. Not one of us here (except Samurai of course) can honestly say how we would react, being asleep not even withstanding. Where is the anger toward the guy who actually did this? This hatred of Canada is so unfounded and ridiculous. And my apologies for the G-d ignorance, I didn't realize they didn't spell it. When I'm wrong, I'm wrong.
I too can't fathom why the police didn't do something sooner. Perhaps they knew the victim was already dead? I actually feel sorry for the passengers. I can't imagine witnessing something like that.

Isn't it ironic that the most judgemental comments come from a country where crime is so high? It doesn't surprise me that a bunch of Americans have nothing but rude,judgemental things to say. None of you were there...so who are you to judge? You people disgust me...you have reinforced why I will NEVER step on American soil. Do you know why you all react with this 'If I were there, I would have charged the guy attitude?' Because you are so used to violence in your country that you have to be ready to jump into action. Funny thing is if this had happened to you guys, we would be shocked and absolutely mortified and our deepest sympathies would go out to everyone affected by this horrific crime....what do you guys do? Judge and make rude remarks. No wonder you guys are the target of so many others. Ever since I have gone online time and time again I have witnessed you Americans tear others apart. Is it any wonder that your country is in the state that it is in? Oh well, as the saying goes....You reap what you sow.

Isn't it ironic that the most judgemental comments come from a country where crime is so high? It doesn't surprise me that a bunch of Americans have nothing but rude,judgemental things to say. None of you were there...so who are you to judge? You people disgust me...you have reinforced why I will NEVER step on American soil. Do you know why you all react with this 'If I were there, I would have charged the guy attitude?' Because you are so used to violence in your country that you have to be ready to jump into action. Funny thing is if this had happened to you guys, we would be shocked and absolutely mortified and our deepest sympathies would go out to everyone affected by this horrific crime....what do you guys do? Judge and make rude remarks. No wonder you guys are the target of so many others. You reap what you sow.

DEAR DEBBIE:

JUDGE NOT....LEST YE BE JUDGED!

Diana 43: Our country is violent unfortunately. But with practice makes perfect in some things. Pardon us if we don't cry over your lack of patronage to our country. The country that is responsible for keeping you safe. Yeah, without us you'd probably have been swallowed up by Russia by now. Or the Japanese back when they were hoping to take Alaska back about 60 years ago.
I haven't been to Toronto soley because I happen to know that gun violence is a problem there. Didn't used to be but it is now. If I can't take my gun for self defense purposes I usually don't go. Therefore I will only go when I go to Niagara Falls again. I won't go to Windsor though. A lot of drunk disorderly Americans roaming the streets with the Canadian drunks.:) That place is a zoo on the weekend. Your country is ok but Utopia it ain't.

IIRC, the passenger directly in front of the victim was ex military. Initially he asked another passenger to help him stop the attack - only to watch him turn without responding and fleeing with the remaining passengers . A small child was handed over seats to other passengers for evacuation.
In those circumstances, and being unarmed, I don't know what more you could expect of that one passenger. But at least one passenger is on record as wanting to try.
I'm far more upset with the police not taking this attacker out with a bullet. They witnessed part of the mutilation. The police had every reason to shot him on site.
Tim McLean, rest in peace son. Prayers go out to his family and friends.

Debbie, I like your site and agree with most of what you have to say. Having said that, you do have a tendency to paint all of Canada with the same excrement colored brush. While I do understand the negativity to Canada what with all of it's USA bashing. I'm Canadian and am almost going nuts listening to some of my fellow countrymen and their bullcrap statements about the great USA. Please don't follow my dopey countrymen/women's examples. Realize that we are not all like that. Just like you are not all like George Bush (who I would have voted for twice. A choice I would have then lived to regret. Although what were the other choices really).

Your liberals make me want to puke, but I don't blame any other Americans but the liberals themselves.

Now about that little beheading thing. What a bunch of bull being thrown around here. Of course if someone had a gun with him, he'd have jumped at the chance to put a few into this guy. That kind of opportunity doesn't come by very often. Unfortunately carrying a handgun here in Canada will get you tossed in jail. We don't all agree with it, but for now that is the law.

On a bus crowded with screaming women (maybe a few men as well) and some children, coming up a very narrow aisle on some guy swinging a 6 or 8 inch blade is a recipe for disaster, for you. Why throw your own life away to save a dead man? My family needs me alive more than they need a dead failed hero.

The police I suspect would be prosecuted if they simply shot the killer. That is definitely a problem here in Canada. Shooting that maniac should have been a priority. We are what our governments make us I suppose. Yes a bunch of my fellow Canadians voted our liberals in for years. Many of us voted otherwise, but that's democracy. Hopefully obama won't get elected, but what if he does? Will that make all of America suddenly stupid and butt licking? Of course not.

We will need each other before all this islamism is over with.

That was a lot of typing. I need a nap.

Guys, be honest with yourselves, don't be idiots.

These people were on a travel bus. The passengers included moms, kids, elderly, etc. Maybe 5 or 6 "able bodied" men capable of challenging the attacker scattered throughout the bus. It was getting late in the evening and darkness was setting in. Most of the passengers were sleeping, dozing off, listening to music or watching a movie with their headphones. One psycho path at the very back of the bus stabs a sleeping passenger in the neck with a "Rambo knife", the scream the people heard was that poor kids last breath, the first strike would have been a fatal wound, even if it was the only strike. The only people who knew what was going on would have been the 3 or 4 rows at the back, someone starts screaming "stop the bus, everybody off the bus". Dazed and confused people heed the warning without knowing what is going on at the back of the bus. I don't know the exact dimensions of a greyhound, but I would guess it is about 60 feet long with a 3 foot center aisle. Anyone in this situation who says they would have helped, yeah ok, so you would have awaken from your slumber and jumped over 15 bus seats or bulldozed 20 passengers cramming the aisle moving in the opposite direction to get to the back of the bus to investigate a scene in which you only knew that "someone" has a knife and then proceed to "Chuck Norris" the Rambo knife wielding attacker and saved the effing day huh? I think you guys play to many video games.

Only a couple of people on that bus would have had the first hand knowledge of what was happening in real time, it was not a case of 37 hockey players standing in a circle scratching their balls and watching someone get murdered and decapitated. The BRAVE CANADIAN men made sure that the women, children and elderly were off the bus and safe. Then they decided to go back on the bus with crowbars to see if they could help the victim. They made sure that the attacker never got away.

Oh and another thing about guns, say if this attacker had a gun at the back of the bus with 36 sleeping or non attention paying passengers. I GUARANTEE that I could have emptied 3 clips before anyone of you would have been able to fire a single round back at me, yes sir, if this happened in the US of A, it would have been more like 12 dead and 15 wounded. Guns in a dark, confusing and confined area would not have made this situation very pretty. Remember Virginia tech?, Columbine?, random employees freaking out at work? Hmmmmm, so lets bash Canada eh?

Read http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080801.DEATH01/TPStory/National

It provides an account in much greater detail. Apparently one of the passengers did in fact attempt to help, but another man who he approached fled. Moreover, it seems that McLean died rather quickly given that he was stabbed repeatedly in the throat. Read it and let me know whether you still think your article is entirely accurate. Just so you know, I actually agreed with you until I found the Globe and Mail article.

Quote: From http://www.theglobeandmail.com/
Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day called yesterday's incident horrific and said his heart goes to the family of the victim. However, he played down the possibility of enacting tough security measures in Canada's bus terminals, similar to what exists in airports. End Quote.

This is unexceptable.
These busses have outside storage for harmful cargo.
It should be the same as airlines for any public transportation.
These attacks will now happen world wide as they see it's easy to do randomly with little disturbance to them.

The attackers know they can no longer use aircraft, but use trains, busses, ships, to carry on and transport the deadliest of weapons.

Whether they are Muslims, or what ever, they will need to do their crap by smaller means which makes them easier to stop.

This bus attack watched by Police could have been tear-gassed-to low level gun shots to subdue the attacker from more humility of the victim.

If it was their child on the buss, they would of opened fire non-stop. I want to see this fkg animals face and where he came from, and what his whole life history was about, and where he's been.

This is not the first time he's done this. You just don't wake up on Meth, and decide to mutilate a human being. Paranoid Yes, but incapable of this level of attack without a lot of practice.

I'll bet any amount, there is a trail uncovered of death.

If security is done as airlines, then bus driver's should be armed. They are out there in the middle of the night, in the middle of no where, when the only on duty cop is sucking down donuts, and is afraid to pull out pepper spray in fear of being sued. Let alone a gun.

Better wake up God Dammit, it's not 1956.
Our FKg pansy azz governments let these scum bastards in here from the early 80's

All you have to know is when the one with the Gun says Get the Fk Down, only the Attacker with weapon will be standing as the primary target. This is standard CIA hit. The attacker doesn't need to answer any questions to any court. We will know enough answers even when he's dead.

Will Have Gun, Will Travel, trained by Armed Forces to never miss by single bullet.

To prove my point of PANZY AZZ.
Look at all the innocent victims of high speed chases, never fired on by several Squads in pursuit.
They could remove all the air in all tires with-in the first 100 feet, just to start with.
But No, they let the Azz Hole drive head-on into a loved one.
The Cops love the instant anxiety attack of the chase.

I ended one such chase with my own vehicle before they could possibly do it again.
This was a Tragic Loss, now take action.
It doesn't matter what you believe, it's all about common sense.

For Reference: Your site was noticed at CNN.com.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/08/01/canada.beheading/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

I was also horrified that some official praised the passengers as "brave" and for not letting the guy kill anyone else!! Like one is okay?

Yes, he had a weapon, but couldn't someone at least have tried?

Don't be surprised if multi-millionaire "man of the people",and Marxist coward,Michael Moore says the same racist things about this, that he spewed about the 9/11 victims; that if the passengers had been Black, they all would have overpowered the terrorists.

The West keeps importing barbarians from primitive societies and then they express shock when these savages commit all kinds of evil acts.

Debbie, I, too, was very disturbed when I read that no one tried to immobilize the maniac, but after reading various accounts of the atmosphere on the bus, I realize that everyone did what they could. Yes, maybe if Rambo had been sitting in the seat directly across from the maniac, and had been awake and aware, and had a weapon of some sort, this could have turned out differently. As it was, there were circumstances that conspired against the passengers. I am not going to judge them. I wasn't there. I feel terrible for the ex-military guy who wanted to help, but was abandoned by the other male whom he asked for assistance. He will likely be haunted by feelings of responsibility and failure (and he shouldn't be -- I hope he will find peace of mind). I also think that the three men who reboarded the bus with tire irons are heroes. They went in to see if the victim could be saved.

If anyone is to blame (in addition to the maniac, obviously) it is those who created Canadian laws that stifle citizens from using violence to quell violence. The maniac should have been slaughtered at the first opportunity, but anyone who tried that would have been prosecuted, most likely. And THAT is what I would hold Canada in low regard for, though to be fair, our own country is becoming pussified and wussified by our laws, too.

In Israel, of course, this would never go down this way. There would usually be a few men or women with guns around and the attacker would be dead in a New York minute. Even without guns, there would be well trained young veterans to jump the guy. Canadians don't pack heat. Too bad.

I'm with Debbie. After the V-Tech shooting, I decided if I ever ended up teaching in a class room, it would be my duty to my students to carry a gun. Get strapped Americans.

Debbie,
Its not fair to brand Canadians as cowards because a few frightened passengers fled a bus as a madman rampaged. And please don't mix English Canadians with the french element that exists in this country.
In fact when WWII broke out many thousands of English volunteered for military duty and a lot of french Canadians ran and hid in the woods to avoid service. These Quebec people were cowards then and largely still are today.
Canada is a socialist country but that does not automatically make us all cowards.

Revolting. They basically locked the killer inside so he could behead his victim in peace.

Reverse the situation:

Psychotic WHITE man beheads an Asian man,on a bus full of Asians =
IMMEDIATE national news,on the CBC,CBS,ABC,NBC,MSLSD,CNN,every disgrace that we're told is a "major" newspaper,and onnnn and onnnnnnnnn, with endless Leftist/Marxisr preachings about Intolerance and Racism,because a White Man did it.

Psychotic ASIAN man does same thing on bus full of Whites =
brief mentions at best,then quickly tossed down Memory Hole and burned, never happened.

This is how people react when there is no sense of "community". No one feels that this is their neighborhood, their town, or their country anymore. If Westerners settled it, it belongs to EVERYBODY.

Um.. if Canadians carried guns, the killer would have had one, and he would have shot the victim as well as everybody else on the bus. The gun argument only works if only some of the people (namely the good guys) have guns.

When I first heard about this story, my first thought was "why didn't anyone step in to help?"

Obviously, this is a tragedy. Yet to paint all Canadians with the same brush, and make this an American vs Canadian debate is grotesque and insensitive. It's a "what if" scenario. You know, kind of like "they may have weapons of mass destruction". "Americans would have saved him". Why, because they have guns. After reading the play by play scenario that occured,there may have been merely nano seconds to save the dying man.

All we can do is send our thoughts and condolences to the family, friends, and witnesses. These people need support, and not to be further second guessed by their actions or inaction. There are three sides to every story, and unless you were there in the immediacy of the situation, you cannot possibly know what you would do, or how you would do it.

Uh, Richard Reid didn't go on a Air France flight to Boston. He took an American Airlines flight to Miami. It was diverted to Boston for an emergency landing.
Also, the author of this article should be ashamed of themselves. Such blatant hypocrisy is absolutely unacceptable in the media. You say how you think the people that ran away are cowards and should be put it jail, WHILE YOU SAY THAT YOU WOULD DO THE SAME. How dare you criticize these people when you are no better.

Also, you note how its acceptable for you to run, since you are a female. That is a blatantly sexist remark. To say that men are simply objects to do all of your dirty work is disgusting. The only reason people are reading your site is because this article is so blatantly foolish.

It would've made a GREAT YouTube

Debbie, Thank you for honoring the life of Tim McLean. I felt very sorry that his life was tragically and horrifically ended by this brutal murder. I read the accounts of the incident and was truly sickened. Mr. McLean's friends described McLean as "A Very Happy and Loving person" As a Mom I think it is such a Tragic Heartbreak to lose a young, happy, and loving Soul and Son this way. We Are Not Free! We Are Not Brave! We, in North America, are a Nation of Gawkers...

Debbie,

Having lived over 60 years in the United States now, I see the world digressing, where barbarians are among us again. Thanks to the Muslims for reintroducing the world to beheadings. I'm licensed to carry a handgun and eventually, if this violence doesn't stop, we'll have to go back to wild west days where we just shoot to kill.

Bottom line: this did not have to happen.

http://freemendo.typepad.com/undaunted/2008/08/exact-change-pl.html

After the Va Tech murders we learned that all of the young strong males jumped from the windows in one classroom while the elderly Holocaust survivor held the door and gave his life to save them. I kept saying to my children, where were the men? I ask that question again, Where were the men? Are they all in the military? I remember Shugar and Gordon who gave their lives in Somalia, not knowing if there was anyone alive to save, then there was the the first Navy Seal to die in Iraq ,he threw himself on a grenade to save the men beside him. This isn't about Canadians or Americans, the US has more than enough wimps and cry babies, just listening to the far left is proof of that. When did cowardice become the hallmark of contemporary manhood?

I agree, grammasusan. And VA Tech didn't have to happen either.

http://freemendo.typepad.com/undaunted/2007/08/give-me-back-my.html

I am outraged at the comments on here from you dumb *ssed Americans. If this incident would have taken place in America, there would be a totally different spin on it. For you pple to say that you Yankee doodles would have acted any different it a load of crap. For the poster who said the passengers should have beat the killer with a tire iron, where did you get the tire iron from? Do you carry one when traveling on the bus? It's really easy for everyone out there to say what they would have done or what the passengers should have done when they weren't actually there. Who knows how we would actually act is such a situation and it disgusts me for you to say that we Canadians are pussies. Just because you're all a bunch of freaks who think you're big and strong by carrying a gun, yet you guys are dumber than sticks. I bet you didn't even know we supply you greedy pigs with over 70% of the oil you use? If you were awaken from sleep to find someone hacking apart someone else on the bus, I doubt any of you would think about anything other than running for your life. You shouldn't be so critical because this could easily have happened in the good ol USA. And you'd all be running scared too. How many times have we seen someone on the street being assaulted and you Yankees keep walking by, turning a blind eye? Did you stop to help? I doubt it. America is famous for this. I rencently saw on American tv a man get hit by a car, no one called 911, no one went into the street to help, cars just drove around. Even the mayor of the town was outraged. So how hypocritical of you to say you'd have tried to stop this horrific attack if the majority of you pple don't even stop it on the street.

Your lame comments only solidify the fact that you Americans are nothing but a bunch of self-centered, ignorant, hypocrits.

Hey CanadianTraderGirl:

Your un-called for rage just proves what I've witnessed in countless other Canadians: your childish jealousy of Americans. You guys have an inferiority complex about us and you pretty much have for the past few decades. From whining about how we supposedly look down on you to going to foreign countries with your maple leaf on your back packs (Which always amuses me because most foreigners don't even know what the hell that maple leaf means. But they DO know the ol' Stars and Stripes, though) you show how childish you are and how inferior your feel. Dudes, if you want to be great like America then get up and DO SOMETHING to show your greatness and stop complaining about Americans (who are clearly the cool kids in class). I mean, it's been like, 100 years since you gave us Superman. You can't coast on that forever. I have nothing against Canadians, and I think you're good neighbors, but you guys have got to stop whining and do something creative and inventive already.

P.S.

You guys also SERIOUSLY need a new government. What a mess! And ya'll complain about our government. Canada is about *this* far from being a Communist state, but the Muslims might get you first.

CanadianTraderGirl; it is possible to know what you're going to do in a situation like this. People all over the world train for it every day.

I think Canada is full of fine people, no more or less courageous than any of us down here. And, yes, we can be very arrogant.

If the attack had occurred on a bus in the USA, who's to say Yankees on that bus wouldn't have acted the same way? There are more than enough examples of cowardly Americans who have acted just as the Canucks on that bus did. So we are faced with the reality of the Can-Am pussy, in all his or her glory.

Speaking for myself, I believe the lack of action had nothing to do with anyone being Canadian or not being American. What came to pass did so because of fear, which knows neither nationality nor gender.

The people on the bus were not prepared and so fear ruled, it seems. But America is bigger than Canada so it's just logic, a simple statistical probability, that there are more people in America who would have done nothing than there are Canadians who did nothing.

Best wishes to you.

I think this particular crime could not have been prevented.

The attacker might have chosen his victim to be someone he could "handle", I think. The victim was smaller and weaker than he was. He probably sized up his victim during the cigarette break. Sitting on the outer seat, he could easily corner his victim, suppose he tried to escape. But there was no chance to do that. All the seats around them blocked both the view and again the escape route for the victim had he the chance or the capacity to move. The attacker, it seems, stroke him fatally right away on the right spot - on the neck. Again, giving him practically no chance to survive.

Self preservation is the first reaction of anybody capable of carrying it out. The victim had no chance to do that. However, by fleeing, all the other passengers did just that. They can't be blamed for it. If someone were to interfere, it should had to be a person capable of both self-preservation and combative action at the same time right away - without notice. Unfortunatelly, given the circumstances, there was no such a person among those random passengers present on that particular bus at the given time.

My deepest sympathy to Tim McLean's family and friends. This animal will burn in hell some day. Sooner the better. This animal targetted him.

Defense against a knife is extremely dangerous. Going unarmed against a knife-wielding animal means you are guaranteed to get cut. The only thing you can do is to try and minimize it. A belt or bag strap are good to wrap the arm or trap the knife if you have the room, but very tough in a confined space like this.

Personally, I have trained in wrestling, jujitsu, kenpo karate, and currently mixed martial arts for a total of 15 years. I have done knife drills with rubber knives and magic markers to simulate where you would have been cut. I am not sure that I would have been able to fight my way out of poor Tim's predicament. Especially, giving up a few free stabs.

Iron Wolf is correct. I've trained for 7 yrs in jujitsu and would be very reluctant to take on a maniac wielding a "rambo knife". Had one of the passengers tried they would most likely been killed or injured. Even a trained individual would need a weapon against a knife such as a club, chair, or other striking object. Had one been available I'd like to think I would have tried but certainly not bare hands against a knife.

In this case at least the passengers held the door closed to prevent his escape. That's pretty much all you can expect out of untrained individuals.

Remember, in 1982 or so Islamic terrorists detained 4 navy SEALS and killed one of them. The bad guys had guns. The SEALS, despite their world class training could not take down the bad guys nor did they try.

Why didn't the hundreds of students at VA tech jump the shooter while he was reloading? They were scare shitless civilians and simply ran for their lives.

On 9/11 an Iraeli security officer or former soldier was killed by the hijackers on one of the planes. He was not able to defend himself either.

These examples make the thing that the passengers did on the aborted flight all the more remarkable.

"If I were in that situation, I'd probably run, too. But that's because I'm a woman, and I'm tiny. .... perhaps I'd try to kick him in the cojones to temporarily neutralize him. I don't know. "

Well, if you don't know how you'd act in that siutation, as nobody probably would know until it happened, you have no right to judge. It's the height of hypocrisy, condemning people for not behaving as you think they should but giving yourself an exemption.

Oh, and please don't use the whole 'tiny, female' thing as an excuse. I'm a tiny female also and I'd prefer to say that I ran because I was shit scared, rather than imply I'd be taking him down if I was a bit, well, bigger, and uh, male...but you know, otherwise, I'd so be there.

I guess for the most part all you people are just real life heros here on the internet, with your guns, and tough attitude, its too bad there was no high speed internet or fiber optics on that bus you could have helped. Say, with that war going on overseas, are your guns and tough attitudes working out there? Oh and there was some innocent children killed when a plane flew into a home yesterday, why couldnt you save them? Neighbours must have been wussies too for not diverting that plane away.

Point here is, religion, race, and views aside, it was a horrific act, perhaps some may have taken steps to assist in the disabling of the suspect in question, and some didnt, when we approach fear, some may think of their family, children, parents, and some think of the innocent person(s) being victimized, in this case the 3 men in question retracted when fear approached, not lessening their "manlyness" or determination, instead of rude remarks, why dont we think of this:

If they didnt hold that door shut, how many passengers, including the children would have been harmed or killed.

In another view, Tim perhaps deserves prase, the prase that he was unfortunetly, and tragically murdered and then retranted upon, yet by keeping that suspects mind off the people who escaped, he in himself became a hero of sort, much like the 3 men including bus driver.

There is alot of views to this, yet if anyone of you people we're a suspect in any given case, the appreciation for law, and conduct would be in your favor. We often forget if someone is breaking in our homes who we turn to, when a car goes off the road, who we turn to, and when our loved ones are harmed, or disappear, who we turn to. Prase a police officier, praise the soles of the people who witnessed these tragic incidents, together as one they need to move forward and not one of you are helping in that with these remarks.

My heart goes out to the family of Mr. Mclean, nothing means more to me then my family, to the witnesses I wish them the best of success in recovery, and to the suspect, I can only say you committed a horrible act, and personally though my views and bias to following the law, you should be hell for what you did, and I can only wish that you are haunted each and every day of your life for what you did, g-d forgave our sins, but him as my witness I know you shall never ever receive forgiveness from anyone, you truly are the devil.

The simple truth is that knife attacks are defensible without years of training in any martial art.

There is a group of expert instructors who train cops in various "extra" disciplines that police academies won't teach. Among these experts at "Street Survival" are martial arts experts, self-defense instructors for some major US police departments. Years back, these experts tried all the many ways to defend against a knife attack unarmed and found the way I've described at my blog to be the best inasmuch as it was the simple to learn and remember and so very effective.

You can't go to their seminars or buy their books unless you're a cop so there's no reason anyone who's not a cop would know this.

Of course, one who tries any defense against a knife attack will probably be nicked or cut. But it doesn't take a hero to engage in battle with bad-guys. It takes someone who wants to go home to his or her family and friends.

An awful lot of bravado on here, much of it of the "me an my gun would take that guy out" sort. Works great in movies. But in real life, many of us don't carry guns and don't want to, which means in a situation like the bus massacre, you're talking about hand-to-hand combat. And unless you're some outdoorsy type, you probably won't have a survival knife handy, either. So, unarmed against a screaming, bloody, knife-wielding maniac in the confined space of a bus with panicking passengers all around. ... I think that bus driver did the right thing in getting everyone off and locking the doors. That was his duty, and he did it. As for charging Freddy Krueger ... speaking as someone who actually has charged into situations like that, the above factors would give me pause. At the end of the day, if I didn't have any family members with me to worry about protecting, I'd probably be dumb enough to do it. But note I said "dumb," and I'm 6'8" and could probably kick the butts of most of the people spouting off here. I don't blame the passengers. The cops, however, had no excuse for standing around.

Yea; nothin' but empty bravado here, from waaaay too many movies.

I felt compelled to sign up soley to respond to this because it's such a idiotic thing to say. I'm sure if you were on that bus you would have tried and tackle him? No, you would have expected the biggest men on the bus to try and take away the 8 inch knife he was flailing. This post was in poor taste and you should feel like an idiot

Who should feel like an idiot?

I'm going to guess you're talking to me.

I've written what you read here and at my blog exactly because, though I was not there, I have been trained in what to do in situations like that. Moreover, I have been in situations like that. So, I do know precisely what I would have done and I described it very clearly in my blog.

I would not have tried to tackle him. I would not have expected the big guys to handle the attacker because big means nothing.

Training and will to win means everything.

If you're calling me an idiot because in your opinion your training counterfeits mine, then list your training and experience here and prove me wrong on a tactic-by-tactic basis, not by throwing ad hominem around.

"conterfeits" how about "contradicts"

Contradicts is probably a better word in that sentence.

Thanks for signing in, . Now you can comment. (sign out)