August 1, 2007, - 3:16 pm

OUTRAGE: Vital Immigration Functions OUTSOURCED! PLUS, ICE Princess, Now the Queen: Agents Ordered to Demure to Royalty

Question for all Americans: Do you think that private contractors should have the job of monitoring and facilitating the deportation of illegal aliens? Would you trust a private company that is trying to make the biggest buck off the least amount of expenses to monitor aliens and, when the time comes, help make sure they’re outta here?

Don’t Dare Address the Holy ICE Queen

(Queen Julie of the Crony House of Myers by David Lunde)

Well, that’s what Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) is doing with important Detention and Removal Operations (DRO) jobs, and it’s kinda scary. With all undue respect to incompetent , if he can’t get the job done, he should step down . . . not farm out vital national security functions to private contractors who will do little background checks–if any–on whom they hire to monitor and help dump aliens out of the country. They’re farming these tasks out for the ENTIRE country. Not a good sign. I mean, what are we paying ICE and its DRO division for?
Oh, and BTW, they aren’t asking for U.S. Citizens for this job. HUH?! This guy Torres has so much stuff with extra-marital girlfriend juggling, that he’s endangering America and taking trained, qualified agents (of which he is not) out of the mix for vital immigration enforcement tasks.
Here’s the info I received from a very concerned retired ICE Supervisor in the know:

Hello Debbie, I don’t know if you have seen this as of yet. It sounds like to me that my old employer Homeland Security is farming out it’s responsibilities to a civilian agency. The job description paragraph is basically what ICE and Detention and Removal are suppose to be doing now. I guess by doing this if something goes wrong Homeland Security has someone else to blame.

Here’s the contractor ad, farming out what you pay taxes for Trained ICE Agents to do:

Military Professional Resources Incorporated (MPRI)
MPRI is recruiting for a contract with DHS/ICE for Detention and Removal Full Service Case Management:
Electronic Monitoring/Alternative to Detention Initiative:
Incumbent will provide support to the EM/ATD initiative by monitoring the activities of illegal aliens released from Federal Custody and pending deportation from the United States. Such monitoring will include physical placement of monitoring devices (ankle bracelets), review of surveillance of aliens, home visits to ensure compliance with release conditions set by federal agencies, case management updates in automated systems, and facilitation in the obtaining of travel documents for aliens for their eventual removal and deportation.
MPRI is competing for a contract with a major federal government agency and is seeking former/retired federal, state and/or local law enforcement officers who would be interested in supporting an Electronic Monitoring/Alternative to Detention initiative for a major federal government agency. This will be a full time position and will become available in 26 major cities (list is provided below.) Salary will be determined upon award of contract and is negotiable dependent on experience and qualifications. Familiarization with immigration procedures and processes a plus but not required. Knowledge of foreign languages a plus but not required. Incumbent will be trained in detention procedures and processes concerning electronic surveillance and home monitoring devices (i.e., electronic ankle bracelets, etc.). Must have reliable transportation and be willing to work odd hours/shift work.
If you are interested please visit our website at and click on the CAREER tab and the drop down menu will have the Individual Information Form (IIF). On the IIF please indicate Job Id XXXX in the “positions of interest” portion. Also, please send an updated copy of your resume to Lee Manriquez at or to Mike Morrell at , 571-227-6930.
Field Office Listing
AOR = Area of Responsibility
Atlanta, GA Baltimore, MD
Boston, MA Buffalo, NY
AOR: CT, ME, MA, NH, RI, VT AOR: Upstate NY
Chicago, IL Dallas, TX
Denver, CO Detroit, MI
El Paso, TX Houston, TX
AOR: Southwest TX, NM AOR: Southeast TX
Los Angeles, CA Miami, FL
AOR: Central CA AOR: FL, Puerto Rico, U.S. VI
Newark, NJ New Orleans, LA
New York, NY
AOR: The five boroughs (counties of NYC) and the following counties:
Westchester, Putnam, Dutchess, Ulster, Rockland, Nassau and Suffolk
Philadelphia, PA Phoenix, AZ
Salt Lake City, UT San Antonio, TX
AOR: UT, ID, MT, NV AOR: Central South TX
San Diego, CA San Francisco, CA
AOR: Southern CA AOR: Northern CA, HI, Guam
Seattle, WA St. Paul, MN
Washington (Fairfax, VA)
AOR: DC and VA

Meanwhile, totally oblivious and clueless to the happenings and irresponsible relinquishment of important immigration enforcement functions by her top minions, the ICE Princess, er . . . ICE Queen World Tour. And I’ve gotten quite a few reports from the field on that, too. Apparently, on July 24th, ICE Chieftess spoke to a San Diego national convention of ICE agents involved in Computer Forensics. The day before, agents tell me they were admonished not to approach The ICE Princess in the hallway or anywhere and not to address her. In other words, stay away from the Holy Queen. But all hail her.

All Hail The ICE Queen

(ICE Queen by David Lunde)

I mean, who does she think she is–Queen Elizabeth?! Well, apparently, when you are a crony, your uncle was a General, and your husband was your bosses chief of staff among many other positions in King George’s Castle, apparently you are royalty . . . or like to think you are. The only thing missing is a lady in waiting. Oh wait, she has that, too–ICE Director of Investigations Marcy Forman-Friedman a/k/a . While addressing her subjects–but making careful not to have any meaningful conversation with them–she was completely out of breath while promising the sun, moon, and the stars, all while everyone knows it’s T Minus 5 Months at the most with this woman, what with a recess appointment and a Senatorial hold on her gazillionth re-nomination.
(On a related note, to those agents who’ve sent me missives from the various stops on the , I haven’t forgotten about you. Waiting for more reports from other stops on the non-Immigration Enforcement waste of money designed to denounce me (because all the illegal aliens have been rounded up and there are no problems with immigration enforcement other than me, apparently).)
G-d save this sinking nation.

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38 Responses

A better moniker for Julie would be the Ice Queen from Narnia. If DRO is going to outsource their jobs, they’re still behind Citizenship and Immigration Services. CIS and INS before that has employed thousands of contract employees to receive and input all the Immigration applications that people send in. We’re talking hundreds of millions of dollars worth of jobs here! And that contractor subcontracts out the jobs even further down. These contract employees open the mail, process the checks, get the INS files and everything else dealing with adjudications short of adjudicating itself. But that’s probably the next step.

rivfedup on August 1, 2007 at 6:59 pm

So there is life after ICE for EVS?

J Leyn on August 1, 2007 at 8:37 pm

You must have an ego the size of the state of Michigan. You talk about the ” Peppermint Patty Anti-Schlussel Task Force World Tour”. That’s so funny. It’s all about you, right?
You couldn’t be more wrong. I told you in my very first post on this site (June first, I believe, if you want to read it again) that there was no such effort, but because you won’t let the truth get in the way of your huge ego driven mantra, you continue to spread lies.
You continue to take shots, and maybe you are a qualifed judge of all things goverment, but let me ask you a few questions, if I might.
How many employees are you responsible for?
What’s the largest budget that you have been responsible for administering?
How many times have you testified on the Hill, or met with and briefed senior leaders of the Senate, Congress or the White House?
How many memorial services have you attended, where you were the senior government official, with the responsibility of handing the American flag to the widow of an officer, who made the ultimate sacrifice for his country?
How many federal law enforcement agencies have you directed, from infancy?
I don’t really expect an answer.
It’s real easy to be the critic. I believe a U.S. President once said something about that, right?
It’s a lot tougher doing the job, and if you were really interested in truth and honor, you’d acknowledge it.

EverVigilantSheepdog on August 1, 2007 at 9:16 pm

EVS, Julie Myers’ job is to make sure her agency is protecting America’s borders for our national security. She is not doing that; rather, it is clear she is in way over her head. Meanwhile ICE refuses to secure our border and deport illegal aliens.
BTW, with this Minneapolis bridge collapse in mind, is ICE monitoring all the illegals working as construction workers on bridges? We have no idea who is crossing the southern border and you yourself stated a couple of months ago that ICE has better things to do than rounding up and deporting illegals. So how do we know that illegal construction workers are not sabotaging our bridges? The point is Americans can’t feel safe if ICE refuses to secure our border and deport illegals, and this ultimately comes down to Julie Myers’ not doing her job. We have no idea who (jihadists posing as Mexicans and taking jobs as construction workers, etc.) is crossing our borders.

Gabe on August 1, 2007 at 10:10 pm

WOW David Lunde – great pics!! LOL

CarpeDiem on August 1, 2007 at 10:48 pm

I believe I heard about an ICE case down in Jackson, MS where ICE arrested a number (can’t remember how many) illegal aliens, including the owner of a construction company that was working on state & federal bridge projects in MS, LA, and AR.
ICE is doing more than you know, but again, we aren’t as big as the threat. Believe that was Tarrasco Steel, if you want to google it.
Tell your congressmen and senators to beef up ICE commensurate with the threat, like they keep doing for Border Patrol, and maybe we can do more.
ICE isn’t on the “Border” per se, that’s Border Patrol’s turf.
We respond, and investigate smuggling cases, but the responsibility for keeping the aliens out in the first damn place isn’t ours (thank GOD).
Anyone that thinks ICE isn’t enforcing the law, and/or deporting illegals is getting their news from a bad source.
The agents in my AOR are working critical infrastructure cases (just like what you mentioned) every day, with the intent of bringing federal criminal cases against the violators.
I’d also say again, political appointees come and go, but those of us that have been doing this for years and years, have to do the best with the hand we are dealt.
My comments in the above post referred to the Director of Investigations, a career government employee, not Assistant Secretary Julie Myers.
Hope this helps clear this issue up for you.

EverVigilantSheepdog on August 1, 2007 at 10:51 pm

Posted by the Ever Schizophrenic Lap Dawg…”I believe I heard about an ICE case down in Jackson, MS where ICE arrested a number (can’t remember how many) illegal aliens, including the owner of a construction company that was working on state & federal bridge projects in MS, LA, and AR.”
ROTFLOL, YOU BELIEVE???? You would think a Gulfport agent, even a moron like you, would know that for sure. There are like a dozen agents in the entire state of Mississippi? Can’t you get out on a mental disability? Why wait to be humiliated by OPR?

J Leyn on August 1, 2007 at 11:16 pm

J Leyn,
Now, now. Don’t you consider yourself to be fortunate to be enlightened by ‘he who must be ignored?’ There are those who feel the need to comment on each and every other’s post to show how impotent, er, I mean important they think they are. Self-validation is critical to SOME people and, unfortunately, this Blog is the only forum where SOME people get the attention they starve for in real life. You can tell by the ’round the clock posts that there is no other life for SOME people. It’s really sad, J Leyn, when you stop to ponder it.

q2thecore on August 1, 2007 at 11:52 pm

I can’t wait till Jorge “ROP” Arbusto leaves office.
How could things get worse?

feralcat9 on August 2, 2007 at 12:42 am

Talking about outsourcing, talking about TREASON, talking about enslaving America to the Saudis, the sponsors of international Islamic terrorism, read the following:
Tuesday, July 31, 2007
Saudis buy major supplier to U.S. military
Saudi Arabia has acquired a Massachusetts firm that is a leading supplier to the U.S. military.
The state-owned Saudi Basic Industries Corp. has purchased GE Plastics from General Electric for $11.6 billion. Based in Pittsfield, Mass., GE Plastics, with 11,000 employees, develops and manufactures plastic polymers, composites and polycarbonates used in U.S. military platforms, including fighter-jets, submarines and engines.
“SABIC’s intention is to grow globally,” SABIC chief executive officer Mohamed Al Mady said.
In May 2007, SABIC announced the acquisition of GE Plastics, regarded as the largest transaction ever completed in the United States by a Gulf Cooperation Council state, Middle East Newsline reported. Seventy percent of SABIC, which employees 17,000 people, is owned by the Saudi government, with Middle East investors accounting for the rest of the company.
SABIC, established in 1976, bested the U.S.-based Apollo Management and the Dutch firm Bassell for the acquisition of GE Plastics. The Saudi company offered $11.6 billion for GE Plastics.
The purchase of GE Plastics must be approved by the Committee on Foreign Investments in the U.S, aligned with the Treasury Department. In March 2006, CFIUS enabled the purchase of Britain’s Peninsular and Oriental Steam Navigation Co., which operates the six major U.S. ports, by the United Arab Emirates.
Congress protested the sale of P&O on grounds of national security, and the UAE’s Dubai Ports World backed out of the deal. DP World, however, succeeded in its bid to acquire Britain’s Doncasters Group Ltd., a manufacturer of precision aircraft engine parts for the U.S. military.
Executives said GE Plastics maintains contracts with the U.S. Defense Department, Homeland Security Department and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, or NASA. Congress has not raised objections to the SABIC purchase.
Copyright Ôø? 2007 East West Services, Inc. All rights reserved.
World is a publication of East West Services, Inc.

Independent Conservative on August 2, 2007 at 2:41 am

Knuckleheads (you know who you are),
I’m getting tired of repeating myself. If you know who I am, let’s have it. You are wasting everyone’s time.
“There are those who feel the need to comment on each and every other’s post to show how impotent, er, I mean important they think they are.”
Haven’t seen you miss the opportunity to respond, so I’m guessing you are referring to yourself as well?
Lame, really lame,

EverVigilantSheepdog on August 2, 2007 at 6:01 am

Have you heard the one about, Ray “Aw Shucks” Parmer, he goes to this conference a couple of weeks ago and threatens all the agents that if they to go to DRO, to be “jailers and bus drivers” they won’t be able to come back to OI!!! Unless of course, you are an agent who left to go the FDA, after you complained to everyone that you hated doing immigration work, didn’t want to do shift work and refused to go on details. BTW I believe she was overseas with “Aw Shucks” and hadn’t done any type of case since she retuned. Oh yea, I amost forgot there won’t be any 13s brought into HQ, per Marcy, unless of course you are a friend of “Aw Shucks” (FAS).
How about this one, “Aw Shucks” and “Peppermint Patty” go to a town hall meeting and both of them caution agents about leaving OI and then begin to apologize for the agents having to do administrative immigration work, no joke, a good friend of mine was in the room.
And this one, “Aw Shucks” and a few of his homeboys are sitting around berating legacy INS agents and complaining about being forced to promote them for parity sake.
Let’s see one DAD going to Commerce, ASAC going to Commerce and countless others leaving the sinking ship….all because they have to do immigration enforcement, I think not…maybe someone should look at the management of this agency.
I’m sure some of it positioning for retirement, so they can land that 200k a year job with some Fortune 500 company and we all know you can get that if you have a customs background, especially in financial.

ficedup on August 2, 2007 at 6:08 am

Hey EVS,
I guess you watch PTI? Knucklehead, Later Matt.

ficedup on August 2, 2007 at 6:12 am

You clearly don’t know squat about Ray Parmer, or you wouldn’t be taking shots at him, for no good reason.
If you had the ability to ask anyone in HQS, particularly those in the senior executive positions, what influence Ray has had since returning to the CAB, you’d hear an entirely different story. But of course, your sources aren’t able to relate any of this, due to their place in the food chain. It’s too bad.
ICE/OI is not going to become INS Lite, where when you tire of one place, or one job (say as a Special Agent) you move to a totally different job series (inspector), and then jump back on down the road. Contrary to what you may believe, criminal investigators have (or should have) special skill sets that DRO and CBP Officers don’t.
Conducting complex CRIMINAL investigations, up to and including prosecuting these cases takes experience, knowledge and skill. You aren’t developing and sharpening these skills while supervising the removal of aliens. It’s that simple. You may not understand this, but it is the way it is.
I’m not demeaning DRO in any way. I have all the respect in the world for those guys. They have an important job to do, and we couldn’t do our job without them. I know that Ray Parmer wasn’t disrespecting them either, but Knuckleheads will always find something to bitch and complain about.
ficedup, are you saying you are Matt, or do you still think I’m Matt? Your written communication skills leave a lot to be desired.

EverVigilantSheepdog on August 2, 2007 at 6:54 am

If you can document the
…The day before, agents tell me they were admonished not to approach The ICE Princess in the hallway or anywhere and not to address her….
you have a violation of federal law and an actionable offense against the supervisor(s) who ordered that.

laneh on August 2, 2007 at 8:19 am

You have to supplement an agency that isnt doing its job (never did) with private companies and local police.Cities are being taken over by illegals and these guys are off on weekends (I guess crime doesnt occur on the weekends) so lets give them an upgrade because THEY claim to be doing one hell of a job, and lets pay more taxes to hire more cops to do INS work that they obviously cant do. What an embarrassment.

slayer72 on August 2, 2007 at 10:42 am

“How about this one, “Aw Shucks” and “Peppermint Patty” go to a town hall meeting and both of them caution agents about leaving OI and then begin to apologize for the agents having to do administrative immigration work, no joke, a good friend of mine was in the room.”
Good for them! Somebody better apologize for this admin crap!!! The sooner DRO takes over ALL of the admin junk the better!

ICEcube on August 2, 2007 at 6:40 pm

“…The day before, agents tell me they were admonished not to approach The ICE Princess in the hallway or anywhere and not to address her….”
Man, as much as i hate to say it…you got it wrong here, Debbie. I was at that conference, and i can assure you that we were not advised to stay away from her. If anything, we were told to be mindful of our comments (as every FEDERAL AGENT should when in public) when walking around the hotel, as we were told she would be staying there. I also participated in a Q&A with her…and about 150 Special Agents…she answered every question (to the best of her ability, i believe), and in fact she stayed until there were no more questions from the crowd…She even took a few questions outside, after her comments. In my opinion, she seemed down to earth and not any at all like the Photoshopped image of a queen that she is portrayed here on the site..I think you have it wrong, here Debbie…Now, as much as I know this site, let the ad hominem attacks of “suckass” and “brownnoser” begin..

CapitalistPig on August 2, 2007 at 7:22 pm

I noticed you only chose to address the easiest question I posed to you. I don’t blame you for not trying to answer the others, so lets just consider them rhetorical, OK?
You actually believe that Director Forman is “touring the country” to talk about you? All I can say about that is you need some new sources. Your site has been a topic discussed far and wide through ICE, because of many of the outlandish claims you made (which many employees who are living in the past, and wish they could turn back the time) believed. “ICE is losing all of it’s authorities” or whatever it was you said. I’m not going to take the time to go back through the archives to quote you exactly, because you know what you said.
It’s just wrong Debbie, and you are either getting bad information, or running with the first tidbit of juicy info you get, because it feeds the pleasure senses of the coconuts that worship you.
In this post you wrote:
I don’t work in Southern Resident Agent in Charge Office in Mississippi. Do you even read my posts? I’ve only said this probably a dozen times. You think you know who I am, but you really don’t have a clue.
I also don’t spend the day on here. I do log on regularly, as I told you before, I’m virtually a singular voice, discussing things near and dear to me, with all the naysayers that lurk here. Five or six of them can post in a day you see, and it doesn’t look like any one of them are on here much.
And because you are concerned about it, I do really get all my work accomplished at the same time. It’s called multi-tasking…and I’m pretty damn good at it. 🙂
And then, you have to end with:
Does it make you feel better to insult people, and call them names?
If you will check my posts, you will find (maybe surprisingly) that I have always addressed you respectfully, and every other contributor, up to the time they take shots at me.
And even when I fire back, I do my best to control what I say, and keep my comments on the high road. I’ve never once initiated one of these little skirmishes that so many of your readers delight in, but I’m damn sure not going to turn the other cheek.
As I told you in my initial post, June 1, 2007, it’s clear you are obsessed with gaining national recognition: “Look at me, I’m on FOX News” “Look, I’m on CNN”. There is nothing wrong with that.
Is it your childish little name calling skills that they are looking for? Do they ever ask you about those?
No, they call on you for your passionate views on illegal immigration, and you present yourself pretty well. I just think the silly names are just that, silly names. It sure makes your “coconut” base happy though.
Careful brother. It’s a minefield in here for anyone taking the opposing view. LOL

EverVigilantSheepdog on August 2, 2007 at 8:05 pm

this whole agency is the dumps right now. all sac offices, especially la’s, is filled with managers on the customs and ins side that don’t know crap and that got their jobs because of the good ol boy network on both sides!

rivfedup on August 2, 2007 at 8:28 pm

LA may be “the dumps” (and I’m not willing to concede that, as I don’t know that much about LA), but please don’t paint us all with that broad brush. All SAC offices are NOT filled with managers that “don’t know crap”.
Making broad sweeping statements like that are factually inaccurate, and misleading.
We’ve got some pretty talented people in the leadership positions within my AOR, and I know many of the other sup’s around the country, and can say the same about them.
Is there an exception here and there? Certainly. It’s like anywhere; some people get promoted for the wrong reasons, and/or promoted beyond their potential.
It’s still a damn good job, regardless of what the “sky is falling crowd says”. We have hundreds, probably thousands of people lining up to take our place, when the vacancy becomes available.
Work Safe,

EverVigilantSheepdog on August 2, 2007 at 8:42 pm

WOW, EVS is actually telling us that he is paid to spend the entire workday trolling the the DS blog! EVS, tell us what complicated investigations are you working in southern Misissippi?
OPR and DHS need to be flooded with letters concerning EVS waste, fraud and abuse. To quote John from Cincinnati, “The end is near.”

J Leyn on August 2, 2007 at 10:11 pm

EVS, you may be “on the inside” compared to most of us but you are clearly blind to what is going on in your bloated agency, the formerly disgraced INS now-DHS. First of all, you have a pinhead dual citizen (Israel is his birthplace) for a Director who is nothing but a mouthpiece for His Idiocy, Bush. Most importantly, your agency has had chance after chance to arrest illegal aliens on the spot without even knocking on or breaking down doors–take the many marches of thousands of illegal aliens last year. 100,000 at one such march, right? Think of the opportunities to nip the Invasion fr. Mexico in the bud, and your org.–funded by us and working FOR WE THE PEOPLE did absolutely nothing at His Idiocy’s directive, no doubt. How about the USA vs Mexico soccer matches held here in the U.S.? Ever think about carding every illegal in the stadium? And how about raiding His Idiocies’ corporate friends, MacDonald’s and Burger King not to mention car washes, nursing homes, hotels, restaurants all over the U.S.? Think of the untold millions of illegals ICE could nab.
Shut your fricking moth and do your job, you idiot!

levotb on August 2, 2007 at 10:21 pm

EVS is just following orders–do not upset the illegal aliens. They might get scared and then won’t report crimes. Of course, they are the ones committing the crimes so I wouldn’t think they would report them anyhow.

lexi on August 3, 2007 at 12:06 am

You don’t understand at all, and because of your tone, and outright insults, I’ll not bother trying to educate you.
“take the many marches of thousands of illegal aliens last year. 100,000 at one such march, right?”
Spoken like a true couch potato expert, who’s never faced the real world. Everybody is an expert when it isn’t you in the arena.
I’ll start listening to you, “Shut your fricking moth and do your job, you idiot!” when hell freezes over. I’m the “idiot”? HA. You’ve demonstrated through your words who the idiot posting is. Have a wonderful day.
What the hell are you talking about? Just chiming in, to be heard in this little group-think exercise we have going on here? Baaaaaaaaa
If you guys wern’t so pitiful, you be funny. Guess you must attack anytime someone disagrees with your icon, DS.
Sad, sad, sad,

EverVigilantSheepdog on August 3, 2007 at 3:52 am

EVS< This is your brain on crack.
Over/Under on EVS being exposed- 30 days
Over/Under on EVS being deICED- 90 days
Mercury in the fish?

J Leyn on August 3, 2007 at 8:44 am

I don?t want to get too deep into this, but EVS as usual is wrong. The genesis for the tour was based on perceived morale problems, some of which were manifesting in the form of rumors about ICEs future. So, as many of these rumors spread (if not started) on this page, and most had an element of truth, the anti-rumor tour was launched mainly in response. A tour like this by ICE leadership could, would, and should have happened anyway. However the timing and content of the tour did have to do with the DS site. And EVS, if you know the Director as well as you claim, you know she is familiar with this site and the tone (if not specifics) of the content.
As to the AS Myers, by all appearances and exchanges with agents I?ve heard about or witnessed, she is well meaning and thoughtful. It is just plainly obvious she is in well over her head. This shouldn?t absolve her of responsibility, as she never should have sought or accepted a position for which she was not qualified. Especially with all that is at stake.
This silly policy of telling agents that if they leave for other agencies (but especially DRO) they can?t return is just stupid. I agree it should not be a platform for someone to leave for DRO and come back at a higher grade. But if people want to come back as field agents, we need all the qualified help we can get. Who would you rather higher as a new agent: someone from Secret Service with no ICE experience, someone from Commerce with no ICE experience, someone from the street with no LEO experience, or a former ICE Special Agent that left for DRO and found the grass is not always greener? I know what my answer would be. Of course I am not spiteful and petty by nature, qualities which are common in backstabbing careerists that make it to the top of ICE.
That is our leadership: unqualified, spiteful and petty. While no organization is perfect, and those at the top in any organization typically want and maneuver to be there as much as they are qualified, we need a change and it can?t come soon enough. It would only be an incremental improvement, but I don?t believe those now in charge would even employ any new resources (if they ever come) in a way that would greatly help.
Hey levotb- “Ever think about carding every illegal in the stadium?” Ever think about the 4th amendment and the Constitution, things like probable cause? Ever think about stopping U.S. citizens who are ethnic Mexicans as they walk in to a stadium? What would be your probable cause? They were brown? The rounding people up at the pro-illegal immigrant rallies would have been a great idea too I guess. Why not? I mean, probably only half of those people were citizens and legal residents, I am sure they wouldn?t have minded being stopped and detained along with the illegals until we figured it all out. I think you and that other genius, Slayer72, should be the new ICE Assistant Secretary and Director. Make sure to supply us with the brown shirts and jack-boots while you are at it.

Staypositive on August 3, 2007 at 12:45 pm

It is very easy for someone who does not work for the government, much less for a law enforcement agency, to wonder why ICE isn’t rounding every illegal up and just shipping them back to their homeland. The number one reason in my opinion is manpower, I don’t think the people that pay the taxes in this country really want to pay the taxes that would be required for ICE to hire the number of agents and support personnel that would be required to take on such a herculean task.
Also, the same people that are castigating ICE for not doing it’s job, would be the same ones who would castigate us if we arrested someone they know and we did it without probable cause, etc.
Look at what happened with the bridge collapse in Minnesota, we have a crumbling infrasturcture in this country that could take billions to repair or replace, but don’t raise my taxes is the mantra of most in this country. Just as it takes money to run your household and keep your house in repair, it takes money to operate the government and keep the public places in this country in repair.
To the ones who come here illegally, you broke the law the minute you stepped onto the United States soil. It doesn’t matter what the reason was that you are coming here, you are here illegally and if you get caught, taken into custody and eventually deported, then you have no to blame but yourself. To the ones who are overstays, you are also here illegally and you know it.
I still wonder how many would be so sympathetic to the illegal population, if their identity was sold to one, two, three may be many illegals who need their social security number so that they could get a job. People who have their identity stolen tell horror stories of trying to straighten the mess out that they find themselves in for years. Guess what, the illegals who purchased someone elses identity in order to gain employment in this country have now broken another law.
As to the other issue discussed in Debbie’s blog and among the various responses, yes ICE has it’s problems, we are a brand new agency with legacies that were good and not so good sometimes. I’ll have my job to do, no matter who is the Assistant Secretary or Director of Investigations. I think we will all have to agree to disagree on how well each of the SAC offices throughtout the county is operating. Number 1 reason is that most of us has only worked in one maybe two of the SAC offices since the merger so how would anyone know how all of the other SAC offices are operating, rumors, talking to other agents? If there is any agent who believes all of the rumors floating around, then you are way too naive to be an agent. I don’t know of but two rumors that I have heard in the past year that has come true. Talking to other agents in other offices will get you a litany of responses on how that office is operating, whether or not they like management and on and on and on. All of us who aren’t agents, know that agents are the worst gossips anyway. For those agents who actually don’t gossip, my apologies.
So, while we all debating on whether or not the management of ICE is competant or not, each and every day we come to work and hopefully do the best job that we can. I’ve always felt that if I wasn’t qualified for the job, I shouldn’t apply for it and I haven’t. I also know that if I had someone who could have helped me be head of any agency even though I may not be qualified, I don’t know if I would have turned that help down. I would almost bet that any of the others who are commenting here would not turn down being the head of an agency either.
To all the agents in ICE, we are what we are and even though none of you may like what has happened with the break up of our legacy agencies and the merger, we still have jobs to do. Personally, to those who are legacy Customs agents, what the “h” is the difference in looking for someone who is running a smuggling ring bring illegals vs a smuggling ring who is bringing drugs into the country, smuggling is smuggling.
It’s Friday night and I hope everyone has a great weekend and before we complain too much about our jobs, we should think of our men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan and what they are going thru each and every day. We don’t have to wonder if each and every step we might take, would get our legs blown off, lose our eyesight, or even worse die.

NotAnAgent on August 3, 2007 at 6:03 pm

I appreciate your opinion, but on a number of points you are, I’m afraid, wrong. Marcy Forman and Ray Parmer doing townhall meetings was & is an attempt to put to rest the vicious rumors, but to characterize it as all about DS, is just wrong.
I’ve said it before, I’m sure someone in Marcy’s inner circle, will tell her when DS goes off on yet another tangent, with a piece of uncorroborated information. But it’s more for amusement than anything.
Marcy and Ray understand how harmful false rumors, when unchecked, can be. I applaud them for visiting with the rank and file, as often as their schedules will allow them. They take all questions, even encouraging the timid to speak up.
I don’t see anything wrong with this.
Would you rather have the truth from the director, or BS from some poser/coward like J.Leyn, Qtothecone, or littlesquirt? I’d rather speak to the director, and ask her questions that concern me and my career.
I also take exception to your characterization of our leadership. There has been some of that in the past, certainly in legacy Customs, and I imagine in legacy INS as well. I don’t see the signs of that nearly like in the old days.
“Unqualified” ?
Who sir or Maam would you promote to the Director, should you be king for a day?
If you are familliar with the myriad of problems (read disasters) that befell ICE/OI in the early days, you’d realize that some pretty damn impressive work has gone on. Not to DS standards of course, but impressive none the less.
Again, I’m not saying it’s perfect, but there are some hard working folks, working their ass off up there, only to be poked at and ridiculed by alleged employees on this blog. Not very respectful, but I guess that’s the way it is these days.
I appreciate you explaining to levotb how the “cow eats the cabbage” LOL Saved me even more energy.
Would everyone that would like to work for, or supervise NotAnAgent please raise their hand???
S, you are the man, or WoMan. Keep up the good work.

EverVigilantSheepdog on August 3, 2007 at 8:09 pm

I’ve been around way too long and have a very little time to go in this particular sandbox to want to be a supervisor. However, thanks for the kind words. I just call them as I see them.
EVS asked someone who would they appoint as AS or Directors of ICE if they were king for the day. As far as I’m concerned, if I were king or queen for the day, I would fire the president, the vice-president and Rove as my first royal act. However, there is a problem with my doing that first, I’m not totally sure who I would appoint in their place. I know who I wouldn’t appoint.
We can discuss the appointment of the Assistant Secretaries we have had heading ICE since it’s inception, however, we have to remember that the President sends the nomination to the Senate for confirmation so ultimately he should be held accountable for who he appoints. Frankly you who voted for him, not once but twice, can take partial blame as to who he nominates. Since I didn’t vote for him either time my conscience is clear. Now I’m not saying we might be better if the Democratic candidate had gotten elected, as it seems to be the trend not to put someone with law enforcement experience as head of federal law enforcement agencies. I also had many other reasons for not voting for the republican candidate or platform.
It’s been 3 1/2 years since the merger and yes I felt that the Customs managers who were in the SAC and DSAC positions could have taken greater advantage of the knowledge of the INS managers once the 2 offices were merged. However, I can only go by what I observed since I make it a habit to stay out of the area where the SAC, DSACs and ASACs have their offices.
We can sit in our respective offices and be miserable about the merger and what we now have to do in our jobs as a result of the merger, or we can try to find it to be a positive experience and make the best of each and every day. To me it takes a special person to go into law enforcement, at any level, and whether you are investigating violations of Customs or Immigration laws, you are still making this country a better place for your efforts. Whether it’s keeping drugs off the streets, preventing the smuggling of humans, keeping defective products out of the country, preventing the smuggling of munitions and defense items from being smuggled out of the country, rounding up gang members who are in the country illegally, find child pornographers, preventing the smuggling of cash in and out of the country, etc., you are making a difference in the lives of many people each and every day and for that we in ICE have the right to be proud of what we are doing as an agency. Yes we are going to have our detractors, but I don’t see any of them lining up to work in law enforcement. It’s very easy to point the blame, but it’s not so easy to be part of the solution many times.
If every citizen of this country would write to their elected representatives in Congress, as well as the President, and tell them their feelings about the immigration as well as any other isseu that they feel is not being addressed, then maybe they would do as their consituents wanted instead of the companies and the like who can hire lobbyists.
As I’ve said before all citizens have to right to take the government to task for not doing their job, however, as I also said I don’t think the citizenry of this country really want to pay the taxes it would require to find every person who is in this country illegally and then take the steps required by law to finally deport them to the country from which they came. So yes ICE as an agency isn’t perfect, but we are the newest law enforcment agency in the federal government and considering the growing pains we have had and are still having, we are doing a pretty damn good job.

NotAnAgent on August 4, 2007 at 3:45 pm

Maybe if your agency had done their job in the past, we citizens would not be paying Billions of dollars in Taxes to support the Illegals that are here.
Think about that one for a minute.
Are you trying to tell us there are no Illegals working at Tyson Foods or Cargil?
How are those investigations coming?
Your own statistics show that arrests and prosecutions have steadily declined since El Presidente took office, even lower than HillBilly’s performance.
How many companies CEO’s have been prosecuted for knowingly hiring Illegals?
In case you have not listened to the TV or seen the polls lately, the American people are writing and calling their Congressman telling them they want our laws enforced.
As far as our infra structure like bridges are concerned and raising taxes to repair them.
BS-In California alone over 1 billion a year has been diverted from gasoline taxes to fund free health care for Illegals.
The problem with our Government and many who work within, is they worry more about the criminals rights than the citizens.
Yeah we taxpayers are fed up and want our laws enforced not excuses and finger pointing.
If I were king for a day, I would clean house.
First on my list, would be Chertoff, Meyers, EVS and any other political appointee or suckass.

ScottyDog on August 4, 2007 at 9:13 pm

As usual, your post was right on target, across the board.
You Sir, or either a Moron, or an Idiot, which is it? I know these are offensive words, but I also know you mean to piss people off when you post, and guess what, you suceeded today.
You come on this board, throwing rocks, and you’ve never walked a minute in the shoes of the fine agents that make up ICE.
Stat’s have gone down my ass!! I wonder where you get your statistics, Debbie Schlussel Blog?
You are so wrong, but you’ll never get it, because you’d rather just criticize those of us in the arena.
If you’d read NotAnAgent’s original post, I think he said he was legacy U.S. Customs.
It wasn’t his fault, smart guy, that illegal immigration is where it is. It isn’t Legacy Immigration Special Agent’s fault either – It’s the FAILED BORDER PATROL strategy of “hold the line” and all that nonsense. Sit on the X, and don’t move. Stupidity personified.
Educate yourself Scotty, then come back and talk to us.

EverVigilantSheepdog on August 4, 2007 at 10:14 pm

Our problem today is out of hand due to the Amnesty legislation twenty years ago. The paradox of the immigration enforcement issue is that nine out of ten new greencard holders are going to vote Democratic and nine out of ten Republicans are going to benefit from undercutting labor standards by rewarding illegal entry into the United States.
Until Americans put less time into Britney Spears (and her underwear habits) and more time into holding their law makers more accountable, the middle-class will continually be eroded from the top and bottom until we are simply a nation of rich and poor like all the other fingerpointing dust buckets like Mexico and Iraq.

code7 on August 5, 2007 at 3:24 pm

As I have said in the past, perception is everything. The public perceives that ICE is not doing it’s job, however, when we go out and do a workforce enforcement raid and after it’s all over and we have arrested the ones who are here illegally and the ones who have stolen someones identity. It’s always “how could you”, you’ve separated children from their parents.
I know I’m going to get lambasted for this statement, however, I’m making it anyway. No one made them have the children that they have while they are here illegally. Just like no one makes someone who is on welfare have more children. While I feel sorry for the children, I don’t feel sorry for the parents, who knowing they were here illegally, chose to have a family and put the children at risk if they were arrested and eventually deported.
People, including myself, make choices in life and when it is all said and done we have to take the responsibility for the choices we have made if they turn out to be the wrong ones.
I can understand people wanting to have a better life, however, apply to come here legally, wait your turn and however, great this country is we cannot have the whole world coming to this country to live.
To those who come here from other countries, assimilate yourselves, learn the language, yes you can have your heritage, but you are living in the United States now. We would like to preserve our heritage and culture also. Yes my family came here from another country prior to the American Revolution and I’m proud that my ancestors fought in the American Revolution, that is my heritage.
Just like a lot of us in ICE, I sat here and read Debbie’s blog and the various responses but until you are working for this agency called, ICE, then you will never really know what is going on with regard to what we are investigating and if we are planning more workforce enforcement raids, etc. As it has been said many times here, illegal immigration is not the only violation of law that we are charged with enforcing.
It is so easy to sit on our couch and point the finger of blame. If we all look deep down inside ourselves, we have all done it a time or two. How many times did we find ourselves not knowing the whole story when we pointed that finger of blame. Just like it’s easy, after the play is made, to say the coach shouldn’t have made that call, it’s just as easy to sit there and say ICE isn’t doing it’s job. I have been an employee of the federal government for over 25 years and have worked in 4 different agencies and 2 different divisions of one of those agencies. Having worked with many types of people, I have always felt that we all were working for the betterment of the people of this country. Yes, it may not seem to the average citizen that we aren’t at the present time, however, the illegal immigration problem did not happen overnight and it isn’t going to get solved overnight.
If the average citizen asked 10 of their friends and coworkers how they felt about the illegal immigration problem we are currently facing in this country, I wonder if any 2 would have the same opinion. It’s like anything else, everyone has their own opinion and it’s hard to find a common ground to come up with a solution.
I don’t think Debbie would find anyone who works for ICE, disagree with her on the issue of better screening of all who want to come to this country to work or visit.
So on some issues we will all have to agree to disagree and guess what, that is okay because in the United States of America that is allowed.

NotAnAgent on August 5, 2007 at 4:13 pm

How do you know what my motives are for posting on this forum? Are you now channeling the thoughts and motives of people that post on Debbbie Schlussel’s forum?
I am retired law enforcement and you are wrong that I do not know what I am talking about. I walked the walk and was seriously injured during the arrest of a criminal that was attempting to kill my partner. I am currently on a Medical retirement from injuries sustained in the line of duty and saved the life of my partner that is permanently disabled as the result of the incident.
I used to work with guyslike you that were nothing but ass kissing sycophants of suits that were trying to climb the ladder using the Peter Principle. You are a legend in you own mind Sir.
The statistics I referred to come directly from the website and show that worksite arrests had fallen by a factor of some 97 percent since 1997.
and this
Under the Bush administration however worksite arrests fell to 159 in 2004 with the princely total of three notices of intent to fine served on employers.Thus worksite arrests under President Bush have fallen from Clintonian levels by something like 97 per cent even though 9/11 occurred in the meantime.
Here are some more statistics that are not in dispute with links:
In 1999, 417 employers received fines for employing illegal aliens,a number that dropped to three by 2004. Since its 2003 creation, ICE’s overall strategy in regards to worksite sanctions has shifted from a fine-based approach to a criminal approach which pursues prosecutions.However this approach has predominantly targeted the illegal alien worker rather than his or her employer.
2007 GAO testimony estimated that 12 million illegal immigrants currently are in the US, an estimate shared by the Pew Hispanic Center. ICE handles most of the apprehensions that take place away from the border. However despite the rising number of illegal immigrants within the nation,the number of deportable illegal aliens located away from the border has declined significantly during the Bush Administration.
Apprehensions Away from the Border are Declining: The number of deportable aliens located by ICE through investigations (predominantly away from borders) has declined by 12% from an average of 124,131 per year between fiscal years 1996 and 2000 to an average of 109,794 between fiscal years 2001 and 2005 (102,034 in 2005).
This means it would take approximately 109 years to locate and deport the existing population of illegal aliens under the Bush Administration’s current rate of enforcement, even if not a single new illegal immigrant entered the country.
Even in cases where Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) has evidence implicating employers,the agency tends to back off if the employer pleads ignorance or fights the fine. That’s why of the 3,064 workforce investigations closed last year, fines were imposed in just 3 (three!) of them, one out of one thousand. . By contrast, fines were imposed in about 11 percent of closed investigations in 1997.
Notices of intent to fine employers:
1997: 865
1999: 417
2000: 178
2001: 100
2003: 162
2004: 3
ICE has not yet developed outcome goals and measures for the worksite enforcement program, making it difficult for ICE and Congress to assess program performance and determine resource levels for the program.
You Stated; It’s the FAILED BORDER PATROL strategy of “hold the line” and all that nonsense. Sit on the X, and don’t move. Stupidity personified.
This is just more finger pointing by a cubicle warrior that blames another agency for your own short comings. That is a strawman that will not hunt.
I never blamed NotAnAgent personally for the dismal performance of ICE, I argued that ICE does not seem to investigate and prosecute employers repeatedly as documented by the GAO and other researchers even when you have the evidence. I am sure that decision was not made at his level but by the appointees who refuse to enforce our laws.
Maybe you should educate yourself about your own agency EVA. Stop trying to be a sycophant to the ICE Queen and Pepperment Patty.
BTW- NotAnAgent seems to be a hard working agent that cares about his job, I just disagree with some of his comments.

ScottyDog on August 5, 2007 at 7:52 pm

I just have one question. When is ICE gonna go get that church rat in Chicago (Elvira Arellano) and deport her ass?

DeportThemNow on August 5, 2007 at 9:38 pm

ScottyDog is right abut the downturn in the administrative investigation and sanctions of employers. In 1999 INS moved away from doing these cases as a strategic decision, and asked us to focus on egregious criminal violations of employers. I, like many, thought it was a mistake and that illegal immigration would spike if there was no longer a true employer sanctions component. It did.
What the stats don’t show, and people fail to remember, is that after 9/11, the public, Congress and the Executive branch were all asking anytime a worksite case was done, “Why are they arresting wokrers when they should be going after terrorists?”. So it became an even lower priority. Most worksite enforcement units around the country were tasked with helping to register all of these nonimmigrant visitors and students from countries like Libya, Pakistan, etc. and deporting those that violated their visas. Also, we hit quite a few airports, military installations and govenrment facilities all around the U.S. where illegal aliens were working in 2002. You didn’t see many fines becasue those employers weren’t always violators. It was just good policy to identify ANY illegal alien that was working in a sensitive location where ID’s had to be vetted. You are right in that worksite enforcement, without a national security nexus, became a low priority.
Today there is as much investigative effort in worksite as ever, it is just focused on the criminal end. There is a design in place to eventually to start fining employers too. The administration is finally being serious about the issue. Too little and too late and clearly motivated out of a political interest to pass that obscenity of an amnesty bill, either now or in the future. However, the resouces are now on it. Maybe you didn’t notice, but almost half our agency was mobilized last December to execute warrnts on Swift plants, one of the biggets meat processors in the world. We’ve also had a lot of successful smaller and mid-size cases that haven’t gotten the media attention nationally. Will this continue after a bill is passed or with a new administration? I don’t think so, but I hope so.
EVS – I never said the Director wasn’t qualified, I was referring to the AS, who doesn’t even meet the requirements set out by Congress in terms of management and law enforcement experience. Not to mention being totally lost and steering our efforts to try and keep her job, rather than do the right thing.
The Director is more than qualified enough, I just don’t believe she’s demostrated the right leadership, and possesses a temperment that is not conducive to success. Plenty of people have been run out of ICE, and not just departed because they couldn’t have the Director’s position. There are ways to marginialize someone so that their efforts are wasted, and they then move on to other pastures. There are also ways to value people and keep them engaged, even if they can’t move up or even laterally. The Director has failed here consistently, both with top managers and the rank and file.
I’m sure the Director has a core group (very small) of supporters who do believe in her. But every legacy Customs employee in your demographic (I’m guessing from your posts late forties to mid fifties) who was in a position or mood to speak candidly can barely withhold their disgust of the Director. I know the feeling, we had more than our share of such “leaders” in the INS, and thank God none of them became a DAS or Director. So you’re one of the few who has had a positive experience with this Director. Congratulations in belonging to such a select group, however, that group isn’t likely to grow larger anytime soon.
As for what I would do if King for a day, I’d have a list of a half-dozen candidates, former Customs and INS (and I’m sure you’d know most the names if you were at HQ when you said you were) who I think would do a better job in most respects. In other respects any Director’s hands are tied with resources we have to work with. Short of that, I’d have to say Slayer72 for my Director, because, not only does he have all the answers, he could show us where the illegals are outside the Home Depot.

Staypositive on August 6, 2007 at 1:14 am

One can also visualize how those customers would stay bonded for life to their respective banks,
as would their succeeding generations. Currently,we can see a lot of wholesale flashlights with very lower price in the Chinese market.

If a review goes ahead, it may result in a tribunal appeal.

sert test org on September 12, 2013 at 12:31 am

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