August 29, 2007, - 12:51 pm

Rudy & The “Serpenthead”: Meet Giuliani’s “Catch & Release” Immigration Team; Question for ICE Agents

Several readers sent me Rudy Giuliani’s disconcerting pro-Michael “Serpenthead” Chertoff comments quoted in yesterday’s Detroit Newsistan. But those readers apparently are new or haven’t been reading this site very closely. This isn’t news. Just a repeat of old bad news. I –a while ago–about how Chertoff worked for Giuliani when he was U.S. Attorney in Manhattan and how he praised Chertoff with a full vote of confidence. Bad news on so many levels.
Anyway, here’s the quote from yesterday:

Sadly, Rudy Likes Chertoff, Cerda, Other DHS/ICE Failures

Republican presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani suggested Monday before a fundraiser here that President Bush might want to look to Michael Chertoff, whom Giuliani once hired, when seeking a replacement for embattled outgoing Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. . . .
It is now critical, Giuliani said, that Bush appoint “a really great attorney general” who has the trust of Republicans and Democrats.
“I believe that the attorney general is one of the two or three most demanding jobs in U.S. government,” Giuliani said. “Everything we do now involves very difficult legal questions.”
Giuliani was U.S. attorney in New York in the 1980s when he hired Chertoff as an assistant, and Chertoff led several high profile organized crime cases. Chertoff is now U.S. secretary of the Department of Homeland Security.

Also, as some of you know, Giuliani recently announced his “Immigration Team.” And unfortunately, it’s made up of also-rans who got Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) into the sinking mess in which it currently finds itself. Here’s what a very wise source who ranked very high in ICE had to say about this team. I can’t agree more, given that these are his “Immigration Policy Advisors”:

Giuliani announced the formation of his immigration advisory team, consisting of among others Robert Bonner (former Commissioner at CBP), Stu Verdevey (former policy honcho at DHS) and Victor Cerda (former head of ICE/Detention & Removal Operations).
While I think Bonner did some good things at Customs/CBP, I have to wonder – aren’t these some of the architects of the failed immigration enforcement policies that got us where we are today? What will that mean in terms of the advice they give Rudy and the policies he pursues as a result? What role might they play in a Guiliani Administration? . . . This is a sad comment on his approach to what I believe to be the most pressing social and law enforcement issue we’re presented with in this country today – more of the same.
Cerda was John Torres’ predecessor. Actually, if I recall correctly when ICE was formed there was initially someone else in charge of DRO and Cerda was counsel to Mike Garcia. Then Cerda was moved over to DRO where he remained until he left ICE and the govt., and then Torres came in. Which means that Cerda was a part of the “catch and release” policy ICE/DRO was following (along with Border Patrol) during that period.

I have heard good things about Bonner, too (when he headed the old U.S. Customs Service).
But the larger picture here isn’t good news. Just what we need . . . if “we” are terrorists and criminals trying for the easiest way into America and the ability to stay here.
Question for ICE Agents: If you worked for or with either Bonner or Cerda, what did you think of them? Please tell us, by commenting on this entry.

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49 Responses

As you know, Mr. Bonner was the Commissioner for the former USCS. He actually came to the office I worked in and talked with us and not at us. He asked for opinions and ideas from the field. Sadly, he wasn’t around long enough to effect anything because of the DHS debacle.
He was the boss for CBP as you point out. If you look at CBP and compare it to ICE, CBP won hands down. Mr. Bonner knew how to play the game when compared to Michael Garcia. Look at what CBP has compared to ICE; CBP has all the air assets, all the boats and seems to be doing quite well financially. What they don’t have is DRO; is that logical? In fact, it almost seems as though ICE answers to CBP instead of CBP answering to the largest investigative agency in DHS.
I think a majority of legacy USCS agents wanted Mr. Bonner instead of Garcia who didn’t have the clout or political capabilities that Mr. Bonner has.
I for one would rather have Mr. Bonner as the Secretary or Assistant Secretary of ICE to straighten some of the issues out.
Mr. Bonner seems to know what it takes to run an investigative agency and the uniform side.
Just my thoughts…

mgofca on August 29, 2007 at 3:51 pm

This article raises a great question that should be examined. Who is really responsible for the disaster that is ICE/DRO/CBP? Who should be held to blame for making ICE an agency that goes after chicken pluckers and ignores many criminal violations? I don’t think this was Bonner’s great plan. In fact it is my understanding that he wanted Customs 1811s in CBP to focus on importation violations and to let ICE focus on Immigration cases. There are many serious cases being ignored while ICE is picking up the chicken pluckers. Whose decision is this? Do these marching orders come from Marcy Foreman, the ICE princess or higher up? My best guess is that the emphasis is on creating enough havoc to get a flawed immigration law passed, but I’d like to know the real story.

longshanks on August 29, 2007 at 5:10 pm

When the jobs dry-up illegal immigration will too. Rudy is the guy who invented the perp walk and that’s what you have to do: Make it a felony, tip the media to be there and bust the top guys instead of the flunkies. First time one of the CEOs of the Chickenpluckers Cartel is led out of corporate headquarters in cuffs with a raincoat over his head, that’s the day the illegals start heading back to Mexico.

John West on August 29, 2007 at 5:28 pm

Ms. Schlussel …
I would like to echo the sentiments of “mgofca” and “longshanks” here.
I was a legacy USCS Inspector under Bonner; I met with him a number of times prior to my selection as an agent. I found him to be warm, intelligent and sincere – qualities that we are currently sorely lacking in DHS and ICE.
Furthermore, I think Bonner hit it “on the head” at the SAC conference in 2003, when it was floated that CBP take back ICE agents – Bonner is alleged to have infamously stated “I’ll take them back … the Customs-trained ones, that is.” You see, Bonner understood that many of the legacy INS investigators were ill-trained, one-dimensional agents, geared towards simple, administrative arrests and removals, as compared to complex, long-term investigations.
I am in absolute agreement with “longshanks” that, while we are now chasing illegals around pork plants and chicken farms, MANY, IMPORTANT investigations (read: money laundering, weapons trafficking, kiddie porn and drugs, to name a few) are being relegated to irrelevance.
A crime and an abomination of the highest order. Quick, someone pour me a single malt scotch and light me a pre-Castro Cohiba – this is going to be a long 15 years !!!

4EVERCUSTOMS on August 29, 2007 at 5:32 pm

Commissioner Bonner was the best commissioner I had (out of 4) during my Customs career. He is a man of integrity, forsight and well respected, he was very much a leader. He would have done a better job as the DHS secretary than Ridge or Chertoff. He was against the separation of Special Agents and Inspectors for the obvious reasons. The Bush administration committed an injustice to the nation by destroying a perfectly professional and respected investigative body (US Customs Service) and createing a laughable agency like ICE. In fact, I’m not sure that they even knew that Customs had a vast investigative responsibility. Rudy would do well in following any advice Mr. Bonner gives. Victor Cerda however, needs to a lot more experience. His opinion would have no value as far as I am concerned. I remember targetting drug smugglers, money launderers, arms/munitions/technology dealers, large scale commercial fraud violators and child porn and sexual exploiters. Now those talented agents are raiding chicken farms and packing plants and slaughterhouses. Sad, very sad.

11bravo on August 29, 2007 at 5:32 pm

Perhaps the problem is how the megabureaucracy of DHS is structured. Perhaps this organizational nightmare should be broken into its functional components which could then be re-integrated into other agencies where they would fit.
Since the country is at war, DOD should probably assume some of its functions.

chsw on August 29, 2007 at 6:26 pm

I think it’s a great mistake to low-ball “chasing illegals around pork plants and chicken farms,” illegals whose cumulative effect on our society dwarfs money laundering, weapons trafficking, kiddie porn and drugs, by any metric you want to use. My two cents…

John West on August 29, 2007 at 7:00 pm

Does anyone know when the U.S. Customs Service was created?

SouthernICE1811 on August 29, 2007 at 8:37 pm

1789, July 31st, if i am correct….Back on topic, however, my opinion is that most interior offices have had Immigration rammed down their throats, while here on the border, we generally can work old USCS work.
…Chasing dope, money, and guns is still being done, gents, you just have to resolve to living in near third world conditions along the border…You take the good with the bad, I guess…

CapitalistPig on August 29, 2007 at 8:48 pm

One thing positive about Cerda was that he saw through the B-S. He made sure two incompetent DRO managers from Los Angeles did not get promoted. The former Deputy FOD in Los Angeles (N.B.) tried several times to get the FOD job and Cerda blew her out of the water in her oral interview. She thought because Cerda was hispanic that he would take care of her (she is hispanic as well) but instead he could smell her incompetence a mile away. Now with the new LA DRO Jimmy Hayes, she has been put to pasture. Rumor has it she will be one of the first to be mandated to HQ, in the very near future. atimron eyb-hub
LA DRO you know what I am talking about, so speak up.

ICE4EVER on August 29, 2007 at 11:22 pm

Can 4EVERCUSTOMS even once take a break from slamming legacy INS investigators:
“You see, Bonner understood that many of the legacy INS investigators were ill-trained, one-dimensional agents, geared towards simple, administrative arrests and removals, as compared to complex, long-term investigations.”
Well, he understood wrongly, as do you. And please, aside from the occasional TDY to participate in a chicken-plucker round up, how many hours do you loose to worksite investigations? The facts are, that aside from the VERY ocasional worksite operation, most units continue with their normal work, whether it be human smuggling or contraband smuggling, etc.
Back on topic – Giuliani will be well served by Bonner, who will give him honest opinions based on his experience and judgements, not political bent. That is valuable advice. He was not involved in developing immigration enforcment policy outside of the Border Patrol, whose role is fairly well defined. Cerda is another worthless political animal who could add nothing of value. I don’t know about the former DHS policy honcho, but I think the disjointed results speak for themselves.

Staypositive on August 29, 2007 at 11:22 pm

This picture of Cerda looks like Jar Jar Binks from the first “Star Wars” prequel episode.

CornCoLeo on August 30, 2007 at 12:14 am

Bonner was solid. He is a former U.S. District Court Judge, former Administer of DEA and former Commissioner of Customs. Bonner was also a very successful private attorney and doesn’t need a government job to feed his family and send his kids to college like Chertoff, Meyers el al. Bonner would make an excellent DHS secretary. Bonner was run off by BUSH because he believed CBP should retain its series 1811 criminal investigators. Bonner is also on record saying that ICE/CBP will definitely be reorganized after the next election, no matter which party wins. Bonner has told a number of people that the present ICE/CBP structure makes no sense.
ICE now has “agents” in both DRO and OI who are fighting for power and jurisdiction. NOBODY knows who does what even after the recent lame protocol memo which is as clear as mud. There is an announcement on USA JOBS for series 1811 criminal investigators under the ICE Office of Intelligence! So THREE different components of ICE which report up THREE completely different chains of command that will be operating independently in the same area! They are all as ICE AGENTS and the state and locals as well as the general public has no idea who does what. Hell, the agents themselves have no clue and neither do the FODS, SACS and what ever the hell Intel chiefs are called. There is a huge power struggle going on between Field Operations and the Border Patrol over at CBP.
Will the insanity ever stop? Yes, but not until after the next election. ICE was DOA but that doesn’t stop Julie Meyers from continuing to muck it up more than even the most cynical could have ever imagined.

FingerEleven on August 30, 2007 at 12:20 am

Readers can discuss Rudy, ICE, Chertoff, Customs till cows come home. But only one presidential candidate has a clear and consistent record against illegal immigration. That candidate is Tom Tancredo, R-CO: With Tom Tancedo, America cannot go wrong.

Alert on August 30, 2007 at 4:48 am

Will you ever stop whining and pining for the “old days”, some of you LC agents are really unbelievable, it’s been over 4 years and still you don’t get it, do you. The American people, who you work for, don’t give a damn about drug cases, money laundering or phony Oakley sunglasses they care about illegal immigration. They have DEA to do drugs and FBI to do money laundering and they expect ICE to focus on illegal aliens and what they are doing to the country.
I’ve heard all the BS about “long term complex criminal investigations”, the reality is most of you didn’t do them but like to think you did.
And after all those years of chasing the dopers would did you acomplish, Did you stop the flow of drugs into the US?, Did you stop money laundering?, all you did was put a few people in jail and seized some assets BFD. The drugs still pour into the country and billions of dollars are still being laundered. You did it because of the adrellaine and it’s sexy do to UC work and pretend to be Crockett and Tubbs.
Grow up and listen to the people you that pay your salary and do what is expected of you or go somwhere else, in the words of JPC, “if they don’t like it they can leave”. BTW he started his federal career in the United States Border Patrol.

ficedup on August 30, 2007 at 6:10 am

“And after all those years of chasing the dopers would did you acomplish, Did you stop the flow of drugs into the US?, Did you stop money laundering?, all you did was put a few people in jail and seized some assets BFD. The drugs still pour into the country and billions of dollars are still being laundered. You did it because of the adrellaine and it’s sexy do to UC work and pretend to be Crockett and Tubbs.” -ficedup
Yo right. Now we (ICE agents) pretending to be plain clothes Border Patrol agents, rounding up Guats and driving up the price of fried chicken and Mickey D’s. We’re a bunch of fucktards who make administrative arrests. We spend our days processing voluntary returns who will volunteer to come back to the USA the very next day. OH YEAH, ICE is big improvement over Customs OI!

FingerEleven on August 30, 2007 at 8:54 am

We put people in jail (and kept them there), we kept tons of dope off the streets, we seized millions upon millions of dollars. What did INS do? Did you keep illegal aliens off the street? No! Did you put them in jail (and kept them there)? No, you went to the PD and put them on buses and sent them back only to see them again the next week. What dent did you make to brag about? We are at this point because you made no difference! They had to get competent people and force them to do what you have failed to do prior to ICE.

11bravo on August 30, 2007 at 10:14 am

Why is it an “Immigration” team?
Why not a “Protect the Homeland from Terrorists and Criminals” team?
Debbie: What are Rudy and his team’s opinion on the immigration “reform/amnesty” proposals?

CallofDuty on August 30, 2007 at 12:44 pm

Bonner is alleged to have infamously stated, as compared to complex………..long-term investigations.
Alleged by whom? You? 4Never since you are such a hotshot, I will sleep well tonight knowing that you have used your superior “complex” investigative ability to solve all the worlds and DHS’ problems. I was an 1811 with both INS and Customs. I left INS not because of the ability and training of the agents. I would take a former BPA with a few years real world experience over a frat boy with a FLETC certificate any day. We are never going to be a better agency as long as we keep airing our laundry in public and tearing each other down. As with any Govt organization you have your doers and your complainers. 4Never what are you? I hear FBI is still hiring, and of course the dreaded private sector. If it’s so bad go.

IwithaCandE on August 30, 2007 at 11:39 pm

“IwithaCand E”…
You can spell – congratulations.
Alleged because I wasn’t there, but I spoke directly to people who were, and I cross-checked and verified with others who were there; I believe it was said, and that Bonner meant it.
As for your “frat boy” comment, yeah, I’m a frat boy – from the old Hard Knocks U: worked, raised a family AND finished my college degree at night (from a New York City school, not some on-line degree). Therefore, I don’t want to hear any of your bullshit.
I was an Immigration Inspector, a Customs Inspector and a legacy Customs/ICE agent – so what? I have maybe not the same, but different and equally valid, experience as the BPA you speak of.
Doers and complainers – you got it real wrong, my friend, beacause I’m both. Just because I’m busting my ass 10, 12 and 14 hour days, 5 and 6 days a week to make a difference, doesn’t mean I’m going to sit idly by and turn a blind eye to REAL problemes with this agency. By pointing out FACTS, MAYBE, just MAYBE, someone at the top will listen and start righting this sinking ship – no, I don’t think raiding pork plants and chicken farms cut it when there are child pornographers, terrorists, weapons traffickers and drug dealers out on the street sowing havoc and fear in our neighborhoods, because we failed at the border.
As for the FBI, fuck ’em. They don’t want a 40-something white male with REAL experience who will tell them what they don’t want to hear about how fucked up their agency and investigative style is. All they want are robots who will expound the “party line” and tell them how wonderful and great they are. Yeah, right.
And, as for the private sector, I’ll make my money there too, after I’m damn good and ready and I’m drawing a nice pension and health benefits from this abortion of an agency. I’m not going to throw away almost 20 years of government service just because the government fucked up.
Have a nice day.

4EVERCUSTOMS on August 31, 2007 at 7:33 am

The kool-aid drinking morons like EVS always tell those who don’t agree with their delusional thinking to leave the service. That is there only solution since they don’t have the imagination or intelligence to find realistic solutions to real problems. Self centered ass kissing suck ups are the lowest form of life. If the intelligent, clear thinking employees leave, the agency becomes more useless. Marcy’s and ICE/OI’s biggest downfall, was all the minions and yes men that surrounded the Director in HQ and in SAC offices. Nobody was willing to tell the emperor that she had no clothes on. ICE Morons (EVS and others) lied about what was happening in the field so they could get into Marcy’s good graces and either get promoted or stay promoted. Now even most of them see the writing on the wall and are leaving in droves. ICE will end up paying the ultimate price as a result of these serious violations of Management 101. The country will be better off in the long run as this abortion was doomed from day one.

FingerEleven on August 31, 2007 at 9:06 am

Greetings 4Never,
I wasn’t there, but I know people who were. I know people who dined with Elvis last night. That does not make it true and I cross-checked and verified with others who were there. My opinion is that a career government guy like Bonner is a lot smarter than to publicly disparage an entire group of people with one broad stroke.
Before I continue baiting you, I would like to say that Bonner being selected to lead ICE would be a big step in the right direction. (Better yet lead DHS) We also need to be reunited with CPB.
I have to admit I should not have assumed you were a Frat Boy. I myself did attend an accredited 4 year university for my undergrad degree. (Paid for by Uncle S in exchange for a few years sweating for my country) I did graduate from an accredited university night program for my masters. The assumption about you being a Frat Boy was a mistake. However, the way you look down on people it just seemed to fit.
Doers and complainers ñ I personally havenít had to go to any of these large scale worksite operations. In my office only three types of agents get sent.
1. New Guys/Girls – We know you are not one of these based on your previous post.
2. Volunteers ñ Since you look down on such work, we know you are not one of these.
3. Useless Agents – Maybe you donít think so, but if you keep getting sent??????
As for the FBI, !@#$ ’em. ÖÖÖÖ investigative style is. Were you not the guy writing in a couple of months ago, hoping that the rumor of FBI taking all the former USCS 1811ís (with 4 year degrees) into its ranks was going to happen? Thank God that never happened because the Quantico Club would have found a way to get rid of all of us none believers.
I am not a Kool-Aid drinker, we have problems. The merger was a mistake. However, I believe it has gone too far. Unfortunately, I donít believe we can go back. That only leaves us one place for us to go. In order to move this beast forward everyone is going to have to do there part. The managers are going to have to stand up for us as an agency, and support the guys in the field. The agents are going to have to stop whining and disparaging each other, and get on with making solid cases. I myself am part of the problem; I am at about the same point in my career as 4Never. I have not taken the 14 test, and have no desire to move to management. I liked making ìcomplexî cases with INS, I liked making ìcomplexî cases with USCS and now I like making ìcomplexî cases with ICE. Doesnít that word ìcomplexî make you feel better 4Never?
As bad as things are, show me another job where I make over 100 and get 26 days off a year. In response to the previous poster, he is right, telling people to go if they donít like it is wrong. We should be saying, if you don’t like it do what you can to make it better.
ìSlurpî sorry I needed another shot of rocking raspberry. Just kidding, I do believe this.

IwithaCandE on August 31, 2007 at 11:43 am

“IwithaCandE” …
If we can get past your play on my “non d’plume”, I think we can reach some common ground here.
We agree about Bonner.
Thank you for your sincerity re. the “Frat Boy” comment.
Re. worksite ops, I was selected for one (the Iowa op), and a family member took ill before deployment. Even so, if ordered, I was ready to fulfill my obligations and have other family members fill in my stead.
The FBI – yeah, I dislike them. However, if it was true they were going to absorb us, I’d rather be the pisser than the pissed-on; you know and I know they have the juice and get the $$$, even when they screw up royally.
We both agree the merger was a mistake, and we can never go back to what was. However, I believe that, while busting my ass, I can still call a spade a spade and call people to task when they are screwing up, like senior DHS and ICE managers in Washington are doing now.
Complex? Yep, love the word. That’s why they pay me GS-13 pay. The taxpayers don’t pay me to round up a simple EWI or 1326(A) -they can pay anyone GS-7 pay for that. No, people want the criminals who mastermind complex criminal enterprises off the streets and in jail and, until my last breath, I intend to give the people what they pay me for ($ 105K a year for me).
Finally, I’m not going anywhere anytime soon – I’m going to do my job and do it very well, even with all the chaos around me and diminishing resources. However, I’m not going to let anyone off the hook by simply lying down quietly and permitting a mediocre mission and management become the new standard of excellence by which we are judged.
Have a great Labor Day weeekend.

4EVERCUSTOMS on August 31, 2007 at 5:22 pm

ICE, Bonner, Bush, Customs, whatever…they can stop illegal immigration any time they want to. Are you people kidding? During the first Mexican March on May 1, 2006, the Dallas Morning News had a photo of 300,000 illegals marching through downtown, I guess in Chicago, with a freakin DIAGRAM of where the illegals would be in Dallas until noon, then they would march down this or that street till they got to whatever city park, and so on.
After “Say-No-To-Gringo” Day 2006 on May 2nd, I was actually leaving Laredo and the Border guys had us lined up as usual, and asked me, “Are you a US citizen, is anybody travelling with you?”. I said, “Why, are you looking for illegal aliens?” He said, “Illegal aliens, illegal drugs, whatever you’ve got.” I said, “Because IT’S ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE NEWSPAPER, 300,000 ILLEGAL ALIENS MARCHING, ETC!”…
He said, “They don’t let us go into the cities.” Ha, WHAT A BIG JOKE. Who cares who runs ICE??

steve ventry on August 31, 2007 at 8:01 pm

Good Evening 4Never,
You are right, I agree with much of what you have written. Where we differ is how we view the agents from legacy INS and legacy Customs. I think that I can offer a unique perspective having been an 1811 in both. I have maintained strong friendships with the agents that I worked with in INS. Let me clue you in on a few facts to which you may not be aware. INS agents did work complex cases mostly smuggling and fraud type cases. Not everyone, but then again how is a controlled delivery a complex investigation? Is a petition investigation a criminal case? Every agency has their dead weight. INS had it share just like USCS, DEA, and FBI.
Where my ire with you really arises is when you post stuff like “You see, Bonner understood that many of the legacy INS investigators were ill-trained, one-dimensional agents, geared towards simple, administrative arrests and removals, as compared to complex, long-term investigations. You just took a big crap on many a good 1811 (including me) who has spent countless hours away from their families trying to do the right thing. Be honest, the whole comment you attributed to Bonner unless you were there was at best hearsay, at worst slander.
ICE at its inception was a mistake. However, if the potential of this agency is ever realized we will be a force to be reckoned with. Do you think that DEA and the FBI may have figured this out and this is why they are constantly trying to take our authority? Think about it, who are the majority of drug smugglers? Who are the majority of money launderers? As for terrorism, 99% of all terrorism prosecutions are for immigration violations. Why not utilize the financial expertise of legacy Customs agents to go after the criminal organizations that smuggle aliens to the US. Many of these organizations are every bit as sophisticated as drug smuggling organizations. In some cases more so.
The other fact is the American taxpayer right now cares more about immigration than almost any other issue. Thank-you Steve. Our role in the day to day admin cases appears to be shifting to DRO as per the recent joint OI/DRO memo. I think that this is what we are all hoping for. Still I will believe it when I see it.
Have a good holiday, and stop tearing down your fellow 1811s.

IwithaCandE on August 31, 2007 at 10:30 pm

I’ll ignore your continuing play on my screen name, and get straight to business.
Yes, we agree on many things, but we will not agree 100% on all things.
Re. Bonner, he’s a smart man. If he did make such a comment, he must have had his reasons. Regarding my repetition of the alleged statement as heresay, please remember that we indict people in the United States by grand jury based on hearsay – it doesn’t mean that it’s not true.
Regarding my previous comment about Bonner understanding that MANY of the legacy INS agents being geared towards geared towards simple, administrative arrests and removals, as compared to complex, long-term investigations, you repeated what I said: MANY, NOT ALL. I never said that there were not some some very good legacy INS investigators who did very good work; I am well aware of the fine work done by former ASU, OCDETF and JTTF agents, who were all, by the way, GS-13 graded agents because of the COMPLEX nature of the investigations that they worked. I assume you are one of these “hard chargers”, and I appreciate your efforts and sacrifices you have made.
I won’t argue with you re. petiton investigations – my office doesn’t dedicate a lot of manpower to these issues, anyway. However, re. controlled deliveries, they are but a tool in the FURTHERANCE of what might become a complex investigation; I can tell you that two of my cases that started with controlled deliveries ended up as grand jury investigations with various other tools utilized and superceding indictments and asset forfeiture as more suspects and dirty money were identified. I agree that we should use more of these tools regarding human trafficking and widescale document fraud cases, instead of raiding chicken farms and slaughterhouses, which I hope DRO will take over more of.
Finally, I don’t trash anyone – I complement where warranted and admonish when I feel the facts warrant same. If I slack off, I hope someone brings it to my attention; however, if I, like you(and I have no reason to doubt otherwise), are out busting our asses and making the sacrifices required to do our jobs, then I’m going to call people on it, and make no apologies for doing so.
In all sincereness, my apologies if I offended YOU, and thank you for your service. If others feel offended, and the shoe fits because they are slackers, well, so be it.

4EVERCUSTOMS on September 1, 2007 at 8:32 pm

First off from a L-INS sgent who has done both a ton of admin work and alot of criminal work (Re-entry, doc fraud ect.) as well. The people of the US care about immigration now, for them it is the #1 security issue facing this country, above drugs, money laundering, IPR violations ect. I am not putting down the importance of these Customs offenses or their need to be investigated, but let’s face it in a post 9/11 world immigration is the enforcement nexus for everything. Yes, that includes “lowly” admin work. First off I feel that the recent policy to have DRO do more of the admin work is a step in the right direction and good policy. However, my agreement is not because I look down on admin work. On the contrary, I think DRO should get a ton of resources, more than OI in some cases, DOs, IEAs, vehicles, jurisdiction, equipment ect. as the work that they are doing is as important, if not more, that the work that OI is doing. Anyone reading the newspapers or with a cursory knowledge of the news would read of the carnage and devastation, and death, wreaked on American citizens thru illegals driving while intoxicated, the murder of a 15 yo girl in Portland OR by 2 illegals, the murders in Newark, and would realize that the greiving relatives of these people sure would have appreciated some “lowly” admin work while their relatives were alive. Maybe their relatives would be alive now. As OI does more and more Customs work, DRO will become the real force to be reckoned with in ICE, good for them their work is extremely important. I’ve worked with their FUGOPs DOs before and there is an esprit de corps, swagger, and pride in knowing that the work you do is protecting your country. Beleive me, there is absolutely no interest on their part in coming to OI, they like where they are at, good for them. Lastly, I like being an 1811 and doing investigations and I feel I do a good job and give the job my all. But I posted to put some perspective on the “admin bashing” that I see on a regular basis here. Many of the horror stories I mentioned above involved “simple illegals” or as some have put it “Central and South American Chicken pluckers and meat cutters.” The relatives really don’t care that we want to do complex investigations and not “lowly” admin work. It’s about what’s good for your country, not what’s good for you. We should have pride in OI, but don’t disparage DRO for the “lowly admin work they do.” The chicken plucker you deport today could save a life in the future.

futureboy on September 1, 2007 at 9:16 pm

I have not disparaged DRO or the work they do. All I have said is that the taxpayers need not pay a Special Agent a GS-13 salary to do what a GS-7 can do for less. What they pay me and others like me for is to dismantle the complex criminal enterprises that threaten the critical infrastructure of the United States – not only do I say it, IT’S IN THE JOB DESCRIPTION – READ IT !!! IT”S WHAT’S REQUIRED TO GET PAID AT THE LEVEL WE DO.
Yes, I am aware of the horror stories regarding the evil that illegal aliens do, and the importance of removing them. However, what I fear is that, in neglecting drug trafficking, money laundering, weapons trafficking and child porn (among other things), in lieu of the “flavor of the moment” (read: immigration), we are simply ignoring issues that will come back and bite us in the rear as a nation when this whole issue of immigration evaporates, either because we have deported all who need deporting, or because the politics of the moment demands an end to it (the more likely scenario, especially if the Dems get into power in ’08).
In conclusion, as I have often said on this site -BOTH MISSIONS, IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS, SHOULD BE EQUALLY IMPORTANT, AND FUNDED AND STAFFED EQUALLY WELL. It is an abomination that we are trying to combine two different missions that need to be approached differently by giving the missions short shrift by combining agencies and budgets, so that both missions are being addressed equally UNWELL.

4EVERCUSTOMS on September 1, 2007 at 10:15 pm

Worksite enforcement would not have prevented the murders you discussed in your post. I don’t think anyone disputes the work of putting criminal aliens in jail. But it doesn’t take complex criminal investigations to locate criminal aliens. Don’t mistake what is currently newsworthy for what the American people want. For the most part people are concerned about their pocketbooks. If illegals are taking money out of their wallets it is a concern. Failing American businesses also hurt our economy and traditional Customs cases are geared toward protecting American business. The final result is that we have to find a way to handle both missions. I think we ALL agree that ICE, as it’s currently structured, can’t do it.

longshanks on September 1, 2007 at 10:25 pm

4Never and FB,
Productive dialog,
4Never you are ruining my fun. After reading your previous posts I was hoping that you were one of those guys who believed all the smoke people blew up your ass about Customs being the premier LEA in the world. I was hoping to mock you and cause that vein in your head to pop with rage and frustration. Unfortunately, you seem to be on to me or more reasonable than the shallow generalities you have posted in the past would seem to indicate. Iím still holding out hope for Finger Licker, but he seems to be locked in a death struggle with EVS. The way they are going there are aneurisms popping all over the place.
Any way, one small factual error to point out from your previous post. ASU agents were only GS-12. Most of the cases actually prosecuted by JTTF were simple single issue fraud type investigations. I donít want to run them down because they were and are among the hardest working agents we have. My personal opinion is that if you have not been the affiant on a T3 or other equally complex type of case you do not deserve your 13. The 13s for all agencies should still be competitive. There are many legacy Customs agents that I have worked with that would not qualify. As an agency we should all be striving to work more T3 cases in all of our program areas.
Futureboy brings up many good points. I am not the type of agent who likes doing CAP work, but as a taxpayer with children, I believe it is a good use of limited government resources. The Predator Arrests were defiantly the right thing to do. After all these were people with convictions for hurting children. In other words they are among the same group of lowlife scum that likes to look at CP. The INS/ICE/DRO agents who do work strictly admin Title 8 cases should be applauded. Despite the misinformation out there most of these admin arrests occur on the street and in the homes of the criminal aliens. Letís face it, an aggravated felon does not make a distinction between being arrested on criminal charges or admin charges. All he knows is that he is being deprived of his liberty. I applaud those that work these cases, partly because I do not wish to do them. 4Never not unlike controlled deliveries, Title 8 admin arrests can be a tool in initiating and/or furthering a larger criminal investigation. By the way, running around on the gang/criminal alien sweeps is a fun diversion.
4Never if you wish to continue pointing out the issues and problems with ICE, thatís your prerogative. However, when you disparage your fellow 1811s in a public forum you disparage yourself. The taxpayers who read this site will not distinguish between legacy this or legacy that.
Finally I hope the admin cases continue to move to DRO. If they keep hiring at the rate they are now, they will be far better equipped to handle the volume of these cases. I also believe that the IEA position should top out at GS-11.
My two cents.

IwithaCandE on September 1, 2007 at 11:22 pm

Longshanks is that a vein I hear streaching in your forehead?

IwithaCandE on September 1, 2007 at 11:26 pm

I want to thank IwithaCandE for making his points in a calm, reasonable and humorous manner. I couldn’t agree with him more on his definition of complexities faced by investigators of all stripes. I also know a couple of folks who were 1811’s in both agencies, and they share your opinions. I’ve posted before that I came on this site because of the thrashing legacy INS agents were taking, and to bring to light that the new immigration enforcment actions were not really taking that much time away from the traditional units. I still think that is true. In my SAC I’ve continued to see great Customs cases AND great Immigration cases. Might there be more of the former if not for the merger? Possibly, but I’ve heard the nationwide stats aren’t that far off overall.
Another thing to remember, is that ICE is still the only agency with authority to prosecute most criminal and administrative provisions of immigration law. The fact is, that the FBI, DEA, Commerce, FDA as well as many locals can prosecute under many of the authorities of legacy Customs. Department of State and Labor can do some immigration fraud, and FBI can prosecute for traficking, but most immigration enforcment falls back to us. So if we have shifted 10-15% of Customs’ previous resources to combat immigration crimes, given the light of today’s threats, I don’t think that is unreasonable.
I understand that some agents have no interest in spending 10-15% of their time on immigration enforcmeent, particularly if it is involving administrative arrests in support of another agent’s case. I know a couple of guys (who were very good investigators) that left because they didn’t want tot do ANY immigration work. BTW, the grass isn’t always greener apparentley, because they’re not that happy where they are now.
Look, we’ve got f’ed up management, especially at the top. We’ve got a cast of jokers waiting in the wings after this adminstration leaves with its circus clowns, especially 2 of the 3 that Rduy is considering. But as much as 4EVER wishes it, we’re not going back, or breaking up. And I think some people don’t yet understand; the ultimate goal is for DRO to take over ALL admin call-outs and criminal alien cases. This will leave us with only having to administratively arrest aliens associated with criminal worksite case, fraud cases, smuggling loads etc. Each of which provides an opportunity to develop a witness to support, further or develop a complex case. There will still be miserable days and nights at worksites and processing aliens into the early morning after a van load stop, but it will be in support of a criminal case. Unless, of course, it is an admin arrest of an alien from a special interest country (CEU work), but who will argue with doing that?
Legacy INS agents worked just as hard as anyone. Maybe 25% of an average office of sepcial agents was dedicated to doing soley adminstrative work in arresting criminal aliens. That meant the other 75% of the agents WERE doing criminal investigations that could be every bit as complex as those of other agencies. Hopefully we can get away from bashing each other, there’s no point to it, or truth.
On another note, the Finger/EVS death match has got to be the funniest thing I’ve read on the net in months. Still LMAO.

Staypositive on September 2, 2007 at 12:51 am

An aside question not directly on the topic of this column of Debbie’s (not that we stick to the topic anyway)
– CBP runs “prosecution units” to deal with simple/routine immigration violations (federal criminal cases) at the border and POE. (Very good use of resources) They had a pilot program to do the same with the simple/routine drug interdictions – which would free up 1811 agents to spend more time and effort on complex investigations. As opposed to working port duty….
Does anyone know what happened with that?

CallofDuty on September 2, 2007 at 8:10 am

Thank you IwithaCandE and Staypositive for saying what I have been saying all along, this continual bashing each other in a public forum only diminishes the good work, a lot of the employess of our organization, are doing.
To FingerEleven you took pot shots at me on another one of Debbies columns and never responded so I assume you agree with everything I said in my rebuttal. Also, I hope you don’t think that only agent’s can have opinions about what is going on in ICE and how one should act in a public forum. However, from reading your posts I only hope you don’t turn up to be from the office that I work in. You might have some good ideas, but you don’t know how to express them in a public forum. Hopefully you represent ICE in a better manner while doing your job day after day.
TO 4EverCustoms I also was a legacy Customs employee but you need to get over comparing everything to the way it was in Customs. September 11 made this a whole new ball game and things will never go back to the way they were. Now I agree that they should have never separated the agents from the inspectional force and maybe one day that will change. Fortunately for us who work for the Customs Service, our mission was never at the whims of Congress and the President like INS’s was. Of course, we did have VonRaab and his zero tolerance policy, what a headache that turned out to be. So you need to accept that this is a new day and new agency and go out there and make the best cases that you can, no matter what the violation is. Personally, I don’t see where the agents in the SAC office that I work for are not working all of the various types of violations that fall under our purvue now.
To EVS and FingerEleven, I have to agree with Staypositive, I haven’t had such a good laugh in a long time and I needed to laugh after the last 2 weeks at work and for what I have facing me in the next month. Remember this is a public forum though and whatever you say to each other is read by the public.
To all of the posters that are employees of ICE, I wonder what a casual reader of Debbie’s columns think about the people of ICE after reading some of your posts. Think about that before you write, sometimes it’s better to be left unsaid if you look like a fool proving your point.
I hope everyone’s favorite college team won yesterday, I know mine did.

NotAnAgent on September 2, 2007 at 12:42 pm

My veins were close to shutting down entirely up to a month ago when I found the escape hatch and retired. Life is sooooo much better away from the disaster that is ICE. I still feel the need to throw in my two cents worth. Even though I might have a slightly outdated outlook. I just think that all agencies need to have a clear and understandable mission. ICE can’t do both the immigration and Customs missions the way they need to be done. Hopefully there will be some type of reorg that will solve the problems. Finally I would set the odds at 60/40 against EVS identifying finger11.

longshanks on September 2, 2007 at 6:34 pm

You are allowed the use of the, “payback is a bitch,” because it is. I had to restrain myself when I posted the other day and asked if he was one of the agents who couldn’t investigate his way out of a paper bag and almost used different terminology.
I wonder how his life in the office will be on Tuesday if and when the administrative personnel in his office reads that he said he got the biggest laugh when I posted that the agents needed the administrative staff when they wanted that new car, needed help with seized property matter, etc.
In my reply to him, I wrote that sometimes one needs to not say anything or else they end up looking like a fool. Oh well, I’m not an agent so I don’t know anything according to him. Who has the last laugh now, I wonder.
I’m way past the time that an agent impresses me by just being a special agent. So don’t worry he didn’t impress me at all.
All I initially wanted was for the public discourse about ICE to be in a civil manner so the public reading our replies to Debbie’s columns would have respect for the employees of ICE and their ideas.
So EVS you are right paybacks are a bitch and sometimes the most deserving of people get their payback where everyone can see it.
Have a good holiday everyone and remember this is a job, an important one, but just a job and there is always someone waiting in the wings that can do the job better than any of us think we are doing the job.

NotAnAgent on September 2, 2007 at 8:26 pm

Anyone that doesn’t respect and treat their administrative staff well, is a fool in this man’s opinion.
Ya’ll make it all work for us, and while there would be no need for admin folks if there weren’t agents, it is also true that agents couldn’t do their jobs near as well, if they had to do all the many things that you folks do, and do well.
I appreciate you, even if the Coconuts don’t.
Take care,

EverVigilantSheepdog on September 2, 2007 at 9:37 pm

Mr. Barnette, Sir …
I’ve gained new respect for ICE management today. A GS-15 who actually has the balls to out himself on this forum is all right with me.
G-d bless, and take it easy in the “Big Easy”.

4EVERCUSTOMS on September 2, 2007 at 11:04 pm

Thank You Sir.
While you and I have disagreed on a number of issues here, we’ve always generally taken the high road, and I appreciate that.
At the end of the day, you and I have shared experiences and most likely, mutual friends who have been watching our backs, while we watch theirs, over the many years we’ve been carrying the U.S. Customs and now ICE Special Agent badge and credentials.
We’ve walked shoulder to shoulder, and back to back, and that’s what made Customs the place to be, and it’s what one day, will make ICE the place to be. (My glass is always half-full. LOL)
We have learned to disagree, without becoming disagreeable. The smell in our offices, and on this blog would be much sweeter if some other folks could learn this skill.
Work safe my friend,
Kyle E. Barnette
DSAC/New Orleans

EverVigilantSheepdog on September 3, 2007 at 6:08 am

It’s strange that FingerEleven or whatever he wants to call himself is strangely quite all of a sudden. I’ve been thinking some more about what has been revealed about that person and I hope he is more truthful in person than he has been on this site, however, I doubt it as a leopard doesn’t change his spots as I always say.
One day don’t be surprised if I don’t either call you or write you an email introducing myself to you. I know you took a lot of heat from the various posters with the position you took, but as I said before, a manager is going to have a different perspective on things than the street agent or other employees in the office. That doesn’t make either opinion wrong, just different.
I have to say that I don’t get into what is going on as to the politics in the office where I work
and that is my choice.
To Debbie
If FingerEleven or whatever he wants to call himself is the one you have been getting all of your information from, you might want to really think about trusting your sources. Ask any agent about how trusting a source can be or not be.
I have said time and time again that yes the public, to include you, have a right to expect their government to do what is right for this country. However, agencies operate at the whim of Congress and the President, so if all of the country isn’t happy about what is happening with the illegal immigration problem look back at what has transpired thru the years.
I just said we, who were legacy Customs, were fortunate in that we knew what our mission was and we were allowed to do that mission day after day. Unfortunately, if you talk to any of the legacy Immigration people, they weren’t so lucky. Today it might be expedite everything without a thorough check on a persons background and tomorrow you do workforce enforcement. They never had a clear mission year after year. So before you keep blaming the employess look to Washington to blame for the problems we are facing today.
To all of the employess of ICE, the flavor of the month right now is immigration and that is something we have to live with. Personally, I don’t see that changing anytime soon with what is happening in the world today. If I was a citizen of this country and given what happend in the past, I would want the immigration issue to be front and center with the government.
I hope everyone is having a safe holiday and remembers our military who is sacrificing a whole lot more than we ever will in the fight for freedom.

NotAnAgent on September 3, 2007 at 11:39 am

“I’ve never seen a more fucked-up agency in my life,” the source says. “If I had a Tomahawk missile to fire up ICE’s ass, I’d do it.”
To find out more details on the legacy EVS left behind as Acting SAC/Phoenix read the following PhoenixNewTimes article. Of course his reward was a paid transfer to New Orleans. Yet he lives 100 miles West of New Orleans in his hometown and he commutes round trip daily while text messaging on his blackberry. Now doubt he takes time out to try and rat out those who dare call him out. Good luck with all that big fella. IF FingerEleven goes down, EVS is going down with him! BTW, thats a “mother in law bet”.

FingerEleven on September 3, 2007 at 3:40 pm

I don’t know either EVS or FingeEleven, but I do think it is time to take this discussion, which has gotten way too personal, to another forum. This has gotten way past commenting on Debbies’ columns and into personal discussions/attacks. I do think EVS will agree with me, but I don’t think FingerEleven has the sense to know that this is not the proper forum for this type of discussion.
To FingerEleven, before you talk about my pithy comments (to quote you) again, if you can’t take it on the chin like a man when you are called out for what you are saying then don’t dish it out. You started it with your vulgar comments and name calling and to me this doesn’t say much for you. I guess you don’t care what the public thinks of you, I just hope they don’t think all the employees of ICE are like you or think like you. I know you will disagree with my opinion and that’s okay but you had better watch it with the name calling and nasty comments if you plan to send any my way.
I read the articles you are alluding to and I had read them in the past and guess what I really don’t think EVS/Kyle had much to do with the tone of the office when he was an ASAC since the tone of any office starts at the top not with middle management. Also, do you really think he could have done much to change that office in the 4 months he was acting SAC? I don’t know how many SACs and acting SACs you have worked for, but I don’t know of many that are acting SACs that will change the way an office is if they are only going to be there a short length of time.
I’m so glad that FingerEleven didn’t end up being from the SAC office where I work. The administrative people in the office where I work would have had your you know what in a sling over your comments about them. I wonder how the administrative people are going to treat you tomorrow when everyone gets to work? Should be interesting.

NotAnAgent on September 3, 2007 at 5:11 pm

“I don’t know either EVS or FingeEleven, but I do think it is time to take this discussion, which has gotten way too personal, to another forum. This has gotten way past commenting on Debbies’ columns and into personal discussions/attacks. I do think EVS will agree with me, but I don’t think FingerEleven has the sense to know that this is not the proper forum for this type of discussion.” NotAnAgent
Don’t know what forum you have been reading but EVS challenged the entire forum to ID him. EVS got out of line by posting the photograph of someone who by his own admission is currently employed as an ICE agent. Poor Judgment is Kyle’s most consistent trait. Barnette is Chief Operating Officer (Deputy Special Agent in Charge) over how many states? EVS is the one who doesn’t have the sense to know what is proper. Apparently NotAnAgent is of the same ilk.

FingerEleven on September 3, 2007 at 6:47 pm

In hindsight, you are right, FingerEleven, he shouldn’t have posted the link to your picture. However, you do have your picture out there for the world to see if they were so inclined to google all of the names of the posters on this site. I don’t think it would take a rocket scientist to figure out you were an agent if they queried that particular name and got your photo based on the contents of your post.
You, FingerEleven, who wishes to remain anonymous as an agent, might want to think again about where you post your photo online. Especially if you are going to use that screen name in other venues that might identify you as an agent.
The paragraph you cited in your recent post that is attributable to me was only saying that, both of you need to take this discussion to another venue.
However, I do hold you accountable for the content of your posts where you disparage the other agents, as well as all of the other employees, of this agency. I don’t think you have won many friends among the employees of ICE who read Debbie’s columns.

NotAnAgent on September 3, 2007 at 7:10 pm

This is rare for me, but I am at a loss for words, here.
The level of civility regarding participation on this site appears to be plummeting by the moment. Yes, we have had spirited disagreements, rooted in facts (even if misguided, but in good faith), but we now appear to be engaging in personal attacks, vendettas and agendas of revenge.
Yes, the taxpayers are watching, and I can think about much better policy debates (e.g. leadership, enforcement priorities, budget, IT systems, etc.) we could be having on this site in an attempt to improve on our strengths, vet our weaknesses and better our standing. To that end, if I have engaged in the kind of personal attacks (not to be confused with spirited debate) that have lowered our collective esteem, I truly and sincerely apologize – it is not beyond me to admit where and when I am wrong, and make amends for it.
G-d bless.

4EVERCUSTOMS on September 3, 2007 at 8:45 pm

I agree with NotAnAgent and 4Never (sorry can’t let it go) This has gone way to far. However, I cannot resist asking Finger one question.
Your response to EVS’s post was to divert attention back to him. You did not try to dispute his allegations. That makes me think that what he wrote was on target. So as your peer I’m asking you, is it the truth?
If so explain yourself.

IwithaCandE on September 3, 2007 at 10:05 pm

Not that you would take any advice from me (a lowly legacy INS guy), but this would be the time to look around, see the depth of the hole, and quit digging. Let it go, disappear, and perhaps this will all just go away. Keep fighting and insulting well respected members of management (and whether you like him or not, Mr. Barnette is well respected by both those he works for and those who work for him), and things can only get worse for you.
For everyone else out there, I echo 4EVERCUSTOMS
points. There are lots of legitimate issues out there to debate. We can debate those without insulting each other individually or collectively based on our legacy history. It may or may not lead to improvements in ICE, but it has a much better chance of working than attacking each other all day long.

SouthernICE1811 on September 3, 2007 at 11:30 pm

I’m glad to hear 4EVER is putting down the hatchet. In the old INS, we had good agents, but troubled management. Especially in that we had non-law enforcement types often in our chain of command, sometimes as close as a third-level supervisory capacity. Even though our management ranks are now dominated by former Customs, at least our 3rd level and higher supervisors are all law enforcement, right up until you get to the Princess. The old INS structure was f-ed up, but now you are all getting a taste of what it was like for your operations to be under the influence of changing political winds. Today it is worksite, when the next adminstration comes in, you can bet it will be something else. The lack of past direction can’t be pinned on INS agents anymore than 4EVER is responsible for the worksite enforcement push of today. That’s why it is difficult to hear and read of us branded as mainly incompetents only capable of working single issue cases, particularly when you and your colleagues have slaved long hours on complex investigations over the years.
As to the possible outing of an agent on this forum, with the fingering of the Finger, I am dissapppointed. I think EVS could have ID’d him without linking to a photo. And further, EVS has posted under his real name on at least one other site and has preached the company line there and here, so other than the silliness of his effort, he is not an agency critic. His exposure here would have no ill effect on his career, particularly becasue he has explictly backed top ICE management. However, the Finger is a critic, and EVS stating that he would send this information to OPR for review reminds me of the schoolyard bully who would pick a fight, then after trading blows run off and tell the teacher. In any event, aside from being an obnoxious jerk, Finger hasn’t done anything that will warrant an internal adverse action, even if an investigation is conducted. What would they get him for? Use of a government computer during duty hours to post? EVS and many others have done the same on this site and elsewhere. That being said, knowing the vindictiveness with which ICE upper management operates, Finger’s career is going nowhere.
And as for owning what one has written, I would like to remind EVS of some of his initial comments on this site when he opined on EEO matters. It will make for excellent fodder should anyone file against him, even if the charges are not that solid. Then again, being cited for discriminatory practices does not appear to be a bar for reaching top ICE management.
As for the public perception on this debate, I think most know that people on all sides wouldn’t be griping if they didn’t care. I don’t have any doubt that EVS, 4EVER and Finger all care about the mission and its potential success, just about how we get there, who leads us, and the methods used by our leadership.

Staypositive on September 4, 2007 at 12:32 am

For the record, I didn’t post the photograph on the internet, but merely directed you to it. I’ve worked undercover a lot in my career, and if I still was, or thought I might be in the future, my picture would never be put out there for all to see. Common sense though, ain’t always that common.
My point on referring my post to OPR and the SAC/Dallas was simply to advise the SAC what kind of “character” he had under his supervision, and as for OPR, I’m thinking using the kind of language “he” used, and describing the leadership of this agency (present company excluded) in the “colorfull” manner he was, might be something they would be interested in.
I know of people getting time off for doing this in person and/or in writing, and I wouldn’t want to know about a violation, without making OPR aware of it.
The computer use isn’t a problem (and I’ve stated that numerous times) in my opinion, unless of course the gambling web sites that were linked, were being accessed from the government computer. I’m not, repeat NOT suggesting that this is the case, but we all know what we can and can’t use the g computer for.
Also, I’m comfortable with everything I’ve said, and to suggest that I’ve said anything that would be construed as offensive to anyone, based on race, sex, etc…is ludicrous.
Someone, and it might have even been you, posted a comment about my use of the word “coconut” implying that it was a well known racist term on the southwest border.
I know this to be inaccurate though, because as I’ve stated earlier, I worked on the southwest border from 1997 – 2003 and I never once heard it, and nobody I know, from Arizona to Texas has ever heard it used as a racial slur. Might be offending some real coconuts, but that’s about all.
Have a great weekend,

EverVigilantSheepdog on September 7, 2007 at 4:34 pm

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