January 2, 2007, - 9:55 am

On Muslim Immigration: Congressman Goode Responds

By Debbie Schlussel
Congressman Virgil Goode (R-VA) has come under intense attack the last couple of weeks over a response to his constituents regarding Muslim immigration to America.
His letter was in response to an avalanche of e-mails he received from constituents upset over Muslim Rep.-Elect Keith Ellison’s plan to use the Koran to be sworn into Congress. While I think the Koran issue is a red herring (it makes no difference on what he swears his oath of office; Islam’s principle of taqiyyah–”deception of Infidels”–reigns supreme regardless of which religious book he uses), I agree with Rep. Goode’s assessment of the Islamic immigration problem, which I’ve written about for some time.

virgilgoode.jpgislamiccrescent.jpg

Rep. Virgil Goode Takes a Brave Stand to Preserve America

The question is simple: Do we want to become like France, where there are riots and over 200 cars burning per day, where at least 14 police officers are violently injured every day, where multiple Jews are harassed, kidnapped, and even tortured to death on a regular basis? All of these things are perpetrated at the hands of one group: Muslims. France does not have a handle on its Islamic immigration, and it is too late. The country does not even know for certain how much of its population is Islamic–it could be as high as 1/3 or 20 million French.
There is no reason, as Congressman Goode correctly asserts, for America to continue with “diversity visas.” Our country is very diverse already, probably more so than any other nation on earth. We do not need to reward certain individuals, merely because they share the faith of the 19 hijackers, with entry into our country. It is one of the worst forms of affirmative action imaginable. And it will kill us. (One can only imagine “diversity visas” in the 1940s for the Nazis who perpetrated the Holocaust, instead of their victims.)
Today, Rep. Goode responds in USA Today. The last two paragraphs of his op-ed are particularly good and on point, so I post them here:

Immigration is arguably the most important issue facing the country today. At least 12 million immigrants are here illegally. And diversity visas, a program initiated in 1990 to grant visas to people from countries that had low U.S. immigration at that time, are bringing in 50,000 a year from various parts of the world, including the Middle East.
Let us remember that we were not attacked by a nation on 9/11; we were attacked by extremists who acted in the name of the Islamic religion. I believe that if we do not stop illegal immigration totally, reduce legal immigration and end diversity visas, we are leaving ourselves vulnerable to infiltration by those who want to mold the United States into the image of their religion, rather than working within the Judeo-Christian principles that have made us a beacon for freedom-loving persons around the world.

Here, here. In 2002, I asked, “Will America become La Prochaine (The Next) France?” Likely, it will, only not as fast or visible to you or even your children. But it will happen in a near future generation. . . unless we take heed of those like Congressman Goode and myself who’ve forewarned the nation. His stand is courageous, not racist (and, by the way, Islam is NOT a race). And I am glad he hasn’t backed down. If there were more like him and Tom Tancredo in Congress, we’d be safer as a nation.
Leaders of CAIR and other Islamic groups that purport to represent America’s Muslims openly state that they want this to become a Muslim nation with an Islamic president and the Koran as our Constitution.
Why shouldn’t we believe them?

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33 Responses

I’ll add Congressman Virgil Goode (R-VA) to my “Tancredo List.”

Independent Conservative on January 2, 2007 at 10:11 am

>(One can only imagine “diversity visas” in the 1940s for the Nazis who perpetrated the Holocaust, instead of their victims.)<
John Loftus, a special investigator for the Justice Department found that 1/2 of the Nazi war criminals who entered the U.S. were on the CIA payroll. They entered with the complete cooperation and assistance of the State Department.
There is little left to imagine. What you need to imagine (I doubt I have to encourage you too much.) is that the Muslim immigration you’re witnessing is being allowed for reasons analagous to those which brought Nazi war criminals into the United States.
TINSC:
I FIGURED SOMEONE WOULD BRING THIS UP. BUT IT’S HARDLY THE SAME THING. DID WE BRING IN 50,000 NAZIS A YEAR INTO THE U.S.? NOT EVEN CLOSE. DO ANY OF THE 50,000 A YEAR WE BRING IN NOW–IN THE NAME OF DIVERSITY–HAVE IMPORTANT KNOWLEDGE OF WEAPONRY OR OUR ENEMIES (AS SOME OF THESE NAZIS DID OF MISSILES OR SOVIETS)? NO.
I’M NOT DEFENDING BRINGING ANY NAZIS HERE. THEY SHOULD HAVE ALL BEEN EXECUTED. BUT THAT’S HARDLY THE SAME AS THIS. AND JOHN LOFTUS HAS ZERO CREDIBILITY. HE’S A FRAUD, CONSPIRACY THEORIST, AND COMPLETE PHONY. WHILE I’M TOLD HE DID SOME GOOD WORK ON THIS ISSUE, HE BECAME A TOTAL NUT, AND IS A COMPLETE FRAUD. DETAILS OF MY PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE OF THIS GUY’S FRAUD HERE:
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2006/02/i_will_not_be_t.html
DEBBIE SCHLUSSEL

There is NO Santa Claus on January 2, 2007 at 10:42 am

While Congressman Goode has annoyed terror supporting groups like ADC and CAIR, he has definitely proven himself to be a true American patriot. And a hero to me!
ADC retards, slow down on the usage of the word ‘racist’ on your lousy website. To you idiots, everything is racist and islamophobic. What Congressman Goode said was totally true and you know it. And, there is nothing ‘racist’ about his statements. Racism has to do with a race, not a religion. Somebody has to teach you English before you start putting out stupid news posts or alerts!
Anyway, did anyone tune in to Washington DC’s 105.1 yesterday around 5pm EST? Brigette Gabriel was on and she was POWERFUL as usual!

anonymous twit on January 2, 2007 at 11:00 am

TSA: press release : Jihad sensitivity training
http://www.tsa.gov/press/releases/2006/press_release_12282006.shtm
CAIR Welcomes TSA Hajj Sensitivity Training
TEST TEST:
IF YOU BOTHERED TO READ THIS SITE, INSTEAD OF CONSTANTLY POSTING LINKS TO THINGS THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE POST AT HAND (WHICH WILL VERY SOON GET YOU BANNED), YOU’D NOTE THAT I WROTE ABOUT THIS A WEEK AGO–BEFORE EVERYONE ELSE.
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2006/12/absurd_to_the_n.html
WHY DON’T YOU ACTUALLY READ THIS SITE, AND POST MY LINKS ON SOMEONE ELSE’S SITE, INSTEAD OF SOMETHING I WROTE ABOUT A WEEK AGO?
DEBBIE SCHLUSSEL

Test Test on January 2, 2007 at 11:13 am

The reason CAIR-less, ADC, and the other assorted “moderate muzlums” get their panties in a bind over this issue is because they KNOW it’s true. They KNOW unfettered immigration by the barbaric muzlum hordes is bad for America and good for islam. Therefore, we must enact those changes that Congressman Goode calls for.

Thee_Bruno on January 2, 2007 at 11:33 am

I think Goode is courageous (and I sent him a check to prove it). But, let’s face it, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Dems push for MORE Muslim immigration rather than less.
Also, as we’ve seen in Europe (read Bawer’s book), and I assume is true here too, the Muslims parents will bring in a villager from the home country to marry the US-born child. So, instead of one couple producing 3 children, you now have 2 couples producing 6, and so on.
It has a huge multiplier effect.

sonomaca on January 2, 2007 at 1:02 pm

BTW: who will take Michigan as the first Muslim-majority state? Or, perhaps Minnesota. Other candidates: Maine and Massachusetts.
I’ll put my money on Maine, where towns like Lewistan and Portland are undergoing rapid Islamification (where the local Somalis openly brag about their 4 wives and 35 or 40 children, all on welfare, of course).

sonomaca on January 2, 2007 at 1:07 pm

Oh, and of course, Ohio, where Columbus is turning into a mini-Modadishu.
My theory is that any Dem-leaning state in the upper Midwest or Northeast is vulnerable because the Dems are trying to stem the tide of electoral vote/congressional seat loss with each coming census. That’s why you see lots of Muslim settlement in these states.

sonomaca on January 2, 2007 at 1:20 pm

DS–”The question is simple: Do we want to become like France, where there are riots and over 200 cars burning per day, where at least 14 police officers are violently injured every day, where multiple Jews are harassed, kidnapped, and even tortured to death on a regular basis? All of these things are perpetrated at the hands of one group: Muslims.”
That is absolutley the point. AMEN! It’s not that we don’t have open hearts to immigrants (legal immigrants)–it is that we can’t open our hearts/borders to EVERYTHING and EVERYBODY–namely those who would use our freedoms to undermine and destroy us. The muslims generally do not make good citizens–(would be too long to give all the reasons here–and yes, there are exceptions–but not many).
I have contacted Goode’s office and registered my support for his NOT BACKING DOWN to the CAIR’s and the rest of the whiners. I also contacted Joe Knollenberg, my Congressman, to let him know I support the stand Goode is taking–to urge him to stand up and be counted on this also regarding pending immigration legislation and US policy.
islam and western style democracy are 100%antithetical and will no more mix than oil and water. Tell me, you who may disagree, where is there even one functioning democracy in a predominately islamic nation where the citizens have a fraction of the freedoms we enjoy? It has never worked because of the kind of “persons” islam produces–they are submitted muslims first pushing “sharia law”–human rights do not matter in islam. It is “submit” or lose your head, or your hand or your foot or both.
Let’s all get off our rear ends and make 2007 the year of the “Goode News.” That means saying no to illegal immigrants and no to the “muslimification” of our country.

BB on January 2, 2007 at 1:23 pm

There is hope for America’s muzlums and this country, after all. After watching the latest speech by al-Qaeda leader and close associate of bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, in this video, I no longer feel that America is doomed to fall into the 7th century abyss.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_S74ZDa2EA&NR
There is hope!

Thee_Bruno on January 2, 2007 at 1:37 pm

“Also, as we’ve seen in Europe (read Bawer’s book), and I assume is true here too, the Muslims parents will bring in a villager from the home country to marry the US-born child. So, instead of one couple producing 3 children, you now have 2 couples producing 6, and so on.
It has a huge multiplier effect.”
Too true, Sonomaca, and more. I haven’t read the book you mention, but I have done a lot of studying. Though not 100%, many of the problems Europe faces are from the 1st, 2nd or even 3rd Generation whatevers (French, Brits, Germans, etc) spawned by Muslim immigrant parents.
I’ll tell you right off the bat, though, that I’m not against immigration. I spent months getting my wife a visa to come to the US legally, and I’m all in favor of other people coming to the US legally and becoming productive Americans. However, I am dead set AGAINST immigration of any sort without assimilation. THAT is the problem that’s happened in Europe, and it’s a problem with our minority groups in the US … any sub-identifier that qualifies the national identifier (i.e. Muslim American, Mexican American, Italian American, African American, Jewish American, etc for us here in the US) is divisive and precludes the unity of purpose that our nation and the nations of Europe need right now – especially in the face of some rather extreme unity from our enemies.
Especially dangerous are the non-assimilated immigrants and the non-assimilated children of immigrants. THESE are the ones that caused the riots in France, the London bombings, the terrorist cells in Germany and Luxembourgh and Spain and Austria and Denmark and so forth … as well as causing our own nation to both polarize along ethnic and political lines (as politicians try to gain the “ethnic” or “minority” votes) and serve as a terrorist/extremist safe-haven and support base.
But, back to the “original” point on diversity visas … they should definitely be scrapped. Although it still has problems, Australia’s visa/immigration process seems to make much more sense to me – a point-based system based on skills, abilities and knowledge (as well as current finances) to try and ensure that immigrants are able to both assimilate into Australian society and be productive members of that society without going on public support. This seems a lot more sensible than our “luck of the draw” visa lottery or our bleeding heart diversity visas.

ComicTragedy on January 2, 2007 at 1:51 pm

“Tell me, you who may disagree, where is there even one functioning democracy in a predominately islamic nation where the citizens have a fraction of the freedoms we enjoy?”
BB – though I’ll agree with you for the most part, there is (well, was) one exception. Turkey.
They’ve had a problem with a growing fundamentalist population for the past couple of years, but for most of the 20th century they were a working secular nation with a Muslim population. Not quite all the freedoms we had here in the US (then again, most of Europe didn’t have ‘em, either), but they at least approached our bar …

ComicTragedy on January 2, 2007 at 1:56 pm

It is good to see Virgil Goode is on the same side of the fence as Tom Tancredo . Recall Congresswoman Ginny Brown-Waite (http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=23298_Florida_Congresswoman_Condemns_CAIR_Pressure_Tactics&only) is also a brave member of Congress willing to openly speak out. It’s a slow start but a very welcome addition for the new year!

justamomof4 on January 2, 2007 at 2:27 pm

Comic Tragedy–
Do you seriously put forth TURKEY as an “one functioning democracy in a predominately islamic nation where the citizens have a fraction of the freedoms we enjoy?”
Let’s see here–Turkey was about 20% Christian at the turn of the 20th century. It is now less than half of one percent Christian with the main reason being …..tada….. the Armenian genocide which slaughtered millions of Christians in the early 1900′s-and yet the Turks as a nation will not admit to this their own holocaust.
FREEDOMS…let’s see, last I checked you cannot even own a Bible or share the Christian faith in Turkey–yes that’s real islamic freedom–uhuh. In legal matters, non-muslims have very little rights when facing muslims–check it out. These things have been this way since I can ever recall. After the fall of Constantinople, it was renamed Istanbul–and the mulims have made a real point to prove to the Christians they are conquerors–oh and they do too.
It was sickening to watch the Pope Benedict going around in Turkey recently–visiting Attaturk’s tomb (architect of the genocide) and praying toward Mecca in a mosque–all the while playing dhimmi (a conquered suck-up) to the muslims. He added insult to injury by openly promoting that Turkey should be granted admission to the EU. (Ratzinger and Ehud Ohlmert use the same playbook–suck up to the enemies who would kill you). Some champion of the Christian faith there– Of course the assassination attempt of the previous pope came from a Turk and so forth.
So my friend, do you have another nomination?

BB on January 2, 2007 at 3:59 pm

I would still beg to differ on Turkey. Yes, they have problems – everyone realizes this. And yes, you’re right in that they have committed genocide … as have a number of other nations that currently practice democracy, including the US. They are not as religiously intolerant as you seem to make out, though. You can own bibles, and you can share Christian faith in Turkey – religious services are limited to places of worship, but some (not all) religious minorities are protected by the Lausanne Treaty. (I will admit that its not put into practice to its fullest, but its a start.) In any case, religious freedom is not the only freedom I would speak of.
Turks drink. And I don’t mean one or two hide in their living rooms and sneak a sip of beer, I mean Turks drink. I worked for 4 1/2 months with the Turkish Army at their post in Bosnia, and their shoppette was filled with nothing but alcohol and cigarettes. Also, my wife and I went to Istanbul in 2005, and it is true that a lot of cafe’s and restaurants didn’t serve alcohol – but a lot of them did, and not just for foreigners. Muslims have the option to practice their religious aversion to alcohol, but don’t have to … and it’s much easier to find a beer in Istanbul than it is to find a pork chop in Jerusalem (I looked when I was there in 1987).
Turks have significant sexual freedom. The women in Turkey do not all wear burqas and hijabs – they dress in some pretty good fashion. Women gained the right to vote in 1934 – relatively soon after they did in the US (officially ratified in August 1920) – and maintain it to this day … again, a freedom you don’t find in many (if not most) Muslim nations. Also Turks are pretty openly sexual – both men and women, though the men tend to be more dominant. Again, going back to my time working with them, though their shoppette didn’t sell porn, they all loved buying it from the Americans – and they did so openly. They didn’t have to hide it from their superiors, there were no religious police running around to ensure they followed sharia law, etc.
There are other freedoms in Turkey that you don’t find in most (or any) other Muslim nations, but those are the big ones I can think of.
Anyway, in a way you’re right, in that Turkey doesn’t have a long history of democracy and freedom. Germany doesn’t either, nor does the US (we may have had “democracy,” but we were far from equally free until the early to mid-20th century). Turkey’s democracy functions better than that of the the Ukraine, Democratic Republic of the Congo, China, Columbia, etc. We can and should study the past so we don’t repeat it – which where the historic knowledge of Turkey’s actions is applicable – but what we have to work with is the present and the future.
Turkey’s democracy does function – far better than much of the world. Though they don’t have all the freedoms we enjoy, and those they do have are not necessarily to the same extent as we enjoy them, they have infinitely more freedoms than any other Muslim nation. That may be like saying I’d rather get shot in the leg instead of bludgeoned to death with a club, but at least you can survive and work with a shot leg.
(Also, from what I understand, the Pope went to Turkey primarily to try and enact a reconciliation with the Orthodox Christian Church – which is led out of Turkey as much as it’s led at all. His activities with the Muslims got much more media coverage, but I believe his goal was to try and mend the rift between Eastern Orthodox Christianity and the Catholic Church.)

ComicTragedy on January 2, 2007 at 5:12 pm

“I FIGURED SOMEONE WOULD BRING THIS UP. BUT IT’S HARDLY THE SAME THING. DID WE BRING IN 50,000 NAZIS A YEAR INTO THE U.S.?”
No. Nor are we bringing in 50,000 terrorists a year into the US. We are bringing in people and families from the Middle East who want a better life for their children.
As for Virgil Goode’s original letter, it is deeply flawed in its logic:
“The Muslim Representative from Minnesota was elected by the voters of that district and if American citizens don’t wake up and adopt the Virgil Goode position on immigration there will likely be many more Muslims elected to office and demanding the use of the Koran.”
The first Muslim elected to congress, Keith Ellison is an American-born patriot who converted to Islam from Roman Catholicism. And what if more Muslims were elected to office? That’s for Americans to decide. Goode’s opposition to Muslim immigration is not based on patriotism, terrorism, or racism but “creedism”.
WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! THE THOUSANDS OF MUSLIMS WHO COME TO OUR COUNTRY EACH YEAR MOSTLY DO SUPPORT TERRORISM. GET A CLUE. THE THOUSANDS WHO CAME HERE FROM LEBANON, THIS SUMMER ALONE, SUPPORT HEZBOLLAH, ETC., ETC., ETC.
AS FOR ELLISON, HE WAS FARRAKHAN’S CHIEF ORGANIZER OF THE MILLION MAN MARCH AT WHICH RACISM AND BIGOTRY AGAINST EVERY NON-BLACK GROUP WAS SPEWED. YOU CALL THAT A PATRIOT?! INCREDIBLE. INCREDIBLY IDIOTIC.
DEBBIE SCHLUSSEL

Norman Blitzer on January 2, 2007 at 7:17 pm

I happened to read the above column-which was kind of a surprise-since I thought this was sorta
between Minnesota rep. elect Keith(the bum)Ellison(who thankfully left Detroit,as,even Detroit didn’t deserve that punk- and The Detroit Lions,)-and radio talk show host,lecturer,etc.,Dennis Prager(who’s sorta my main man);former New York mayor Ed Koch embarrassed himself on Prager’s show a week or so ago.Some people are traumatized
by anyone simply pointing out that there is only one Judeo-Christian country in the world,and it was Ellison who “started it” by announcing that he was doing his symbolic swearing in on “the bible” of choice by all(99%?)terrorists.The punk should at least move to Europe.

jaywilton on January 2, 2007 at 7:43 pm

Debbie,
Thousands upon thousands of Muslim immigrants are already here, but they aren’t committing or supporting thousands of terrorist acts. As for the Lebanese, not only Muslims but Christians too began supporting Hezbollah as a result of the bombing of Lebanon by Israel.(I’m not giving an opinion on this particular matter here so don’t assume anything about my views.)
“AS FOR ELLISON, HE WAS FARRAKHAN’S CHIEF ORGANIZER OF THE MILLION MAN MARCH AT WHICH RACISM AND BIGOTRY AGAINST EVERY NON-BLACK GROUP WAS SPEWED.YOU CALL THAT A PATRIOT?!”
To the best of my recollection, every minute of the MMM was broadcast live on CNN, and I don’t remember any bigotry being spewed. I think conservative columnist Armstrong Williams attended the event and he had nothing but positive things to say about it. But Debbie if you know of any instances of racism and bigotry being spewed at the MMM please let us know what that was.
And anyway, that was 10 years ago. Keith Ellison is certainly a patriot now despite your immature name-calling.

Norman Blitzer on January 2, 2007 at 10:54 pm

sonomaca-
Bawer’s book is what first made me aware of the magnitude of this threat. After reading it, I wondered if the US was different than Europe, in that some (hopefully the majority of) muslim immigrants here are assimilating into our culture, would that be the difference? Or is there no difference?
I am very pleased with the Goode controversy because it may wake up a few more people, and agree with most of what he said, but I believe he has a marketing problem. The way he worded his original letter was a swipe at all muslims and we do have muslims that love our country and it’s freedoms (I work with one, there’s gotta be more). I believe he could have executed better and wished he did. Why give the people who don’t “get it” anything to spout off about? In my opinion, people with the right ideas (“bigoted” politicians like Goode, Spencer & Fitzgerald, Schlussel, Malkin to name a few) need more slick and effective marketing, especially against a better funded PC mainstream media. Where are all the patriots with the money?

JBarsimson on January 3, 2007 at 12:04 am

ComicTragedy posts:
“You can own bibles, and you can share Christian faith in Turkey – religious services are limited to places of worship, but some (not all) religious minorities are protected by the Lausanne Treaty. (I will admit that its not put into practice to its fullest, but its a start.) In any case, religious freedom is not the only freedom I would speak of.”
BB–HELLO? YOU CALL KILLING ALMOST ALL THE CHRISTIANS IN THE COUNTRY (FROM 22% DOWN TO LESS THAN A HALF PERCENT) AND GIVING THEM SECOND CLASS STATUS FREEDOM? YEAH THAT’S A START ALRIGHT–ONLY A FEW LEFT TO KILL. MUSLIM CONVERTS TO CHRISTIANITY FACE DEATH. YOU MUST BE A TURKISH APOLOGIST–YOU REALLY ARE A COMIC AND A TRAGEDY. THERE IS NO MUSLIM DEMOCRACY WITH RELIGIOUS FREEDOM. IT DOESN’T EXIST. WAKE UP!

BB on January 3, 2007 at 12:59 am

comic-tragedy you sound like a walking rooting section for turkey. I think the issue under discussion here is: do we want these un-assimilatable throwbacks to the 7th century in our country gaming the system to milk our resources, subvert our culture and overthrow our democratic institutions?
Despite what you may think you saw during your short visit to Turkey, the Turks have been responsible for some of the most cruel, sadistic, brutal genocides against religious minorities in all history. The headcount is in the multimillions, and they have not changed. What has changed is their ability to “smokescreen” their atrocities from world view as they did in the 1920′s.
I think I speak for 80-90 percent of Americans when I say NO we do not want these throwbacks in the US and politicians, public officials, bureaucrats responsible for importing them should be called to account.
As for the appeal Turkey may have for you and others, my question would be: why did you come back? Why not stay?

joesixpack31 on January 3, 2007 at 1:39 am

You bring up a good point:
The question is simple: Do we want to become like France, where there are riots and over 200 cars burning per day, where at least 14 police officers are violently injured every day, where multiple Jews are harassed, kidnapped, and even tortured to death on a regular basis? All of these things are perpetrated at the hands of one group: Muslims. France does not have a handle on its Islamic immigration, and it is too late. The country does not even know for certain how much of its population is Islamic–it could be as high as 1/3 or 20 million French.
That’s why guns must always remain legal. Yes, I know the lefties want to ban guns but guess what, FEMA, under the Bush administration were going into homes in Louisiana after Katrina, taking guns away from not ony abandoned homes but from law-abiding citizens whose homes were not damaged. Subtle, yes. Surprising no. But guess what:
Your comments:
The question is simple: Do we want to become like France, where there are riots and over 200 cars burning per day, where at least 14 police officers are violently injured every day, where multiple Jews are harassed, kidnapped, and even tortured to death on a regular basis?
They aren’t allowed to have guns. And if we can carry guns, what terrorist would go up against a well-armed militia?

KOAJaps on January 3, 2007 at 5:44 am

Any Muslim group of individual who wished could come out, right here and right now, in this blog, and say:
“I don’t want the US to be an Islmaic republic under Sharia law. I love the United States, and support its founding documents. I believe Muslims and non-Muslims, men and women, Christians and Jews enjoy rights. I support American power abroad, and the goals of US foreign policy. CAIR and these other so-called civil rights organizations are treasonous, and do not speak for me.”
Don’t hold you breath.
BTW: Bush admin has reverted to its old CAIR-loving ways, while Dems like Boxer, Durban, and Schumer at least have a clue.
Am I still supposed to be a Republican when Bush wants to impose the largest tax increase in American history (via payroll tax), has the TSA in bed with CAIR, wants to sell Israel down the river, has been playing footsies with the Europeans on Iran for years now, nominates people like Murphy for the Federal bench, and runs ICE and Homeland Security in ways which seem to undermine national security (which we know about thanks to Debbie and her little birds in government).

sonomaca on January 3, 2007 at 9:58 am

BB – Actually, I don’t like Turkey or Turks – they freaked me out on a personal level when I worked with them, and they treated me like I had “American Dollars – Get ‘Em While You Can” tattooed on my forehead when I was in Istanbul. Also, many of their past actions have been inexcusable, and no matter how far they progress these actions will taint them. But the question was not whether you or I like Turkey or not, whether Turkey is/has been a “good” country or whether you or I agree with Turkey’s actions and policies, but whether it is a functioning democracy with a fraction of the freedoms we enjoy.
Turkey does not have all the freedoms we enjoy in the US, and it is more religiously repressive than the US (though less repressive than most Muslim countries). However, they do have other freedoms that are not common or present in most other Muslim nations, that are similar to – though not equal to – those of the west. Like it or not, it fits the bill for a functioning democracy with a fraction (key word – fraction, not all) of the freedoms we enjoy. (An intelligent reply would be appreciated … insulting me, while satisfying, doesn’t exactly change any opinions.)
Joesixpack31 – I’m not disputing that Turkey has committed terrible actions in the past, and I’m not saying its some sort of Eden on Earth now. I am trying to say that its a functioning democracy with better than average freedoms for a Muslim nation.
I am also not saying I want these (or any other) people to come into the US willy-nilly … if you look at my other post in this thread (before getting sidetracked with Turkey), I am dead set against unassimilated minorities and immigrants.
To all – I am not a “walking rooting section for Turkey” – I just dislike it when people close their eyes and minds to facts in order to push forward assumption and opinion as truth. If there are facts to prove me wrong, tell me of them, let me research them on my own and I’m open to changing my opinion, but it irks me when someone is so focused on one issue or one opinion that he’s completely closed off to anything else and becomes angry and/or insults you if you don’t agree with him.
Now, can we move this discussion OFF this thread? I thought this thread was supposed to be in response to Goode’s words and actions, not about Turkey and it’s freedom or repression. If someone wants to go on a rant about me or my statements, fine – do it somewhere else and provide the link, and I’ll be happy to respond there.

ComicTragedy on January 3, 2007 at 1:10 pm

Better yet – I finally found a use for my damned MySpace account … and moved the above conversation there. Instead of posting here and wasting space on this thread, go to this and make whatever comments you want …
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=69082887&blogID=213023572&MyToken=86020785-eedf-4dbd-b6ba-236d374f5967

ComicTragedy on January 3, 2007 at 1:51 pm

To the ComicTragedy:
Res ipsa loquitur–The thing speaks for itself–Turkey–no matter how you attempt to perfume the pig–is still a GENOCIDAL CESSPOOL OF ISLAMIC FILTH–not a free society that we can pretend otherwise–(read above if you are still lost). FACE REALITY–stop apologizing for them. We’re not buying it.

BB on January 3, 2007 at 5:15 pm

BB – In other words, don’t confuse you with the facts, you’ve already made up your mind.

ComicTragedy on January 3, 2007 at 6:13 pm

yep, you are right–I’m moving to Turkey now. Thanks for showing me the light bro.

BB on January 3, 2007 at 8:00 pm

Hi Debbie -
You are obviously a sharp person. Some of your views are a bit too “Ann Coulterish” pour moi, but, boy, do I agree with you on the Muslim problem. I’ve been saying for years that freely allowing Muslim immigration into this country is very bad policy. Understanding Islam “by the book,” i.e., the Koran, reveals that it is the most anti-human, misogynistic ideology pervasive today – and “moderate” Muslims do almost nothing to ameliorate the situation. If Americans don’t wake up, we WILL turn into the mess that it France today.
Acharya S
http://www.TruthBeKnown.com

Acharya S on January 4, 2007 at 9:20 pm

Acharya S, or should I say D Murdock, I’m very surprised to see you here! While your comments on Moslems definitely make sense on this page, you are a well-established Christian-hater and Jew-hater.
I remember reading your article about “Judaism – 4000 years of massacring neighbors”. You accused the Israeli army of “murdering innocent Arabs” plus a whole lot of other nonsense.
Moslems are not the only problem for you, its Christians and Jews as well, D. Murdoch.

anonymous twit on January 4, 2007 at 11:58 pm

I disagree with the bashing of Turkey, that is going on here. On a personel level, the Turkish Moslems, that I have had the privalege of knowing, were all tolerant and decent people. They all expressed their fear about the growing religious fanaticism, especially among the youth. Up until about 5 years ago Turkey had a close military and cultural relationship with the USA and Israel. The Turkish military was the force most responsible for keeping Turkey in the pro-Western, pro-Democracy column. See Daniel Pipes on this. When the earthquake struck Turkey about 8 years ago, the Israeli rescue teams were first on the scene and saved many lives. The Turkish newspapers respoded with headlines saying ” Thank You” in Hebrew. The right wing-religious newspapers in Israel, pointed to the mutual tolerence between secular and religious Moslems in Turkey as a model to be emulated in Israel. Turkey held military exercizes and Naval manouvers with the US Fleet. Since that time things have deteriorated, the radical Islamists have taken over with hatred directed against the US, and production of anti-US, anti Smitic films like Kurtlar Vadissi. When the Jews were expelled from Spain in 1492, by Ferdinand and Isabella, they were welcomed by the Turkish King.

Tim on January 8, 2007 at 1:52 pm

Turkey was a more faithful ally of the US against the Soviets as well as against radical Arab states such as Syria then neighboring Christian Greece which supported our enemies. Unfortunately all that has changed. As far as the charges of genocide against the Turks go, please see Gunter Lewy’s article “The First Genocide of the 20th Century?” in Commentary Magazine of Dec. 2005, for a completely diferent take on this.

Tim on January 8, 2007 at 2:13 pm

This message is in response to the character assassination above. It is so typical of fanatics to distract from the issue at hand by making personal attacks – and here we go again.
It is claimed – and allowed to stand by the site owner – that I am a “Christian-hater” and “Jew-hater.” This type of smear reveals a very poor intellect. Where have I ever said that I “hate Christians?” Where have I ever said that I “hate Jews?”
I do not hate human beings, and I have never expressed as much. I sincerely dislike dishonest, hateful and divisiveness mentalities and attitudes that pass themselves off as “religion” or any other such ideology. Any other assertion, including such heinous ad homs that I “hate” other human beings, is fallacious and libelous.
Back to the subject at hand, I’ve been tackling ALL injurious and deleterious ideologies, including what is clearly bad and evil within religion. It does not matter what the ideology is, be it religious or not, whether Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu or other, I will criticize it if it is harmful and hateful towards human beings, including men, women and children.
That suffering is the bottom line. All the rest, including petty and malicious gossip as above, is distraction from these important issues.
Acharya S
http://www.truthbeknown.com
http://tbknews.blogspot.com

Acharya S on May 9, 2007 at 9:24 pm

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