May 30, 2012, - 12:59 pm

Poles Were Complicit in Holocaust: Outrage Over Obama “Gaffe” is Fraudulent, Ignorant

By Debbie Schlussel

Barack Obama has done enough legitimately bad things that we don’t need to manufacture phony outrage over things he does that really aren’t so bad. Such is the case with the feigned shock and fake moralizing over his comments, yesterday, about German Nazi death camps in Poland being a Polish death camp. Here’s a tip for Poland and ignoramuses in the lumpenconservatariat who now engage in revisionist history: Poles murdered millions of Jews, they maintained several death camps, and they wiped out almost all of both sides of my family, as well as those in hundreds of thousands of other Jewish families. This wasn’t just the Nazis. It was tens of thousands of eager Poles and more. Obama made no gaffe here. Poland’s willing executioners took their significant place among Hitler’s willing executioners.


Poland’s Warsaw Ghetto Existed Because of Polish Complicity

swastika.jpg

Two Things That Weren’t Exactly Mutually Exclusive

There is a reason why Poland was so easily occupied by the Germans. Yeah, I know–they were “just taking orders.” Just taking orders when they helped round up Jews and helped man gas chambers. As if Nazis from Germany did this alone! Polish police all too happily worked with the SS to round up Jews. Polish police all too easily took their place in helping run and operate the death camps. Facts are stubborn things. But, sadly, not as stubborn as morons and blind partisans.

I had to laugh when I read this:

Poland’s Prime Minister Donald Tusk said Wednesday Obama’s words had hurt all Poles and he expected more from Washington than just “regret”.

Are you kidding? Someone needs to remind Mr. Tusk that his people were the ones doing the hurting and the turning over to the Nazis and the mass murder of at least half of the six million Jews killed in the Holocaust, some of them from my family. You are “hurt” by calling Nazi death camps, “Polish”???? Um, where were they? Who helped operate them and round up and turn in the camps’ Jewish occupants, soon to be turned into ash and fumes?


There is a reason that President Obama, yesterday, awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom posthumously to Jan Karski, the former Polish underground officer who provided early eyewitness accounts of Nazi Germany’s genocide of European Jews. And that’s because Karski was unlike most of his fellow Poles, who hated Jews just as the Nazis did and proudly turned them over to the Nazis and/or participated in the mass murderous Judenrein. Even in the Polish underground, hatred of Jews was legion. My great-uncle was in the Polish underground, until they slit his throat while he was sleeping because, one day, the head of the Polish underground demanded a cleansing of its Jews, too.

My paternal grandmother had eleven brothers and sisters. Only one brother survived the Holocaust after the Poles murdered the rest along with her parents, after Poles seized their farm. (Grandma Marilyn was brought to the U.S. before the Holocaust began.) My maternal grandmother had only one surviving sister and brother, out of ten siblings. All the rest–and her parents–were murdered by the Poles. My maternal grandfather’s entire family was wiped out by the Poles. Grandpa Isaac’s father was mayor of the town and owned a hardware store. He hid in the haystacks of a Pole who owed him money and had bought tools on credit, but my grandfather escaped and was ultimately rounded up to the camps, after he heard the Pole tell neighbors he was going to trade my grandfather to the Nazis for a bottle of whisky.

My family and the millions of Jews wiped out in Poland never identified as Polish because the Poles never treated them that way. They were subject to centuries of pogroms and extreme anti-Semitism by the country in which they lived, before they were ultimately rounded up to the camps and mass-murdered with Polish cooperation. They were treated as subhuman all along the way, never as fellow “Polish.” So it’s beyond hilarious now to hear that the Poles are “hurt” by Obama’s description of a German Nazi death camp as “Polish.” As if there weren’t any Polish ones or as if the Poles had zero part in the Holocaust they all too eagerly participated in. Read the 93 pages of “Bystanders, Blackmailers, and Perpetrators: Polish Complicity During the Holocaust” for just a taste of what the Poles wrought on the Jews.

Yes, it is laughable that the Poles, Rush Limbaugh, self-hating Jew Matt Drudge, and a gazillion Republicans and incredibly obtuse and ignorant members of the lumpenconservatariat–most of them no different from the Obamabots in their lack of intelligence, knowledge, and common sense and decency–are incensed over this “gaffe” that really ain’t a gaffe at all. It’s intellectual dishonesty to insist that these death camps on Polish soil were not at all Polish and merely “German Nazi.” Here’s a list of the Polish ones–did they not exist? Did they exist in Poland only because the Germans did this and the Polish had no part? Only a liar or a moron would make these claims. The White House should have made no apology to Poland. These major death camps existed in Poland for a reason: Polish complicity in the Holocaust and willing cooperation with the Nazis.

* Auschwitz

* Belzec

* Chelmno

* Gross-Rosen

* Majdanek

* Plaszow

* Sobibor

* Stutthof

* Treblinka

Keep these names in your mind when you read this quote:

Poland’s government keenly watches the global media for descriptions of former Nazi German death camps as “Polish” because it says the term — even if used simply as a geographical indicator — can give the impression that Poland bore responsibility for Nazi Germany’s World War II genocide.

Although located in Poland, Auschwitz for example was set up and run entirely by German dictator Adolf Hitler’s occupying forces from 1940 to 1945.

Huh? The Poles were not just forced into this by the Nazis. They were active participants, many of them gleeful and eager to murder Jews. To call these camps Polish is no “gaffe.” Poland DOES bear responsibility for the Nazi genocide of Jews.

It’s just fact. And it’s denial and fraud for Poland and others to argue otherwise.

Yes, there were a few righteous gentile Poles who saved Jews. A very tiny few. The majority were all too happy for the Judenrein, especially in the way it took place.

That was the real Poland during World War II. Anyone who says otherwise is a fraud.

And if you wonder why so many Jews are liberal and won’t vote Republican, BS, like the absurd denial that Nazi Death Camps were Polish, certainly doesn’t help in endearing Jews to the GOP.

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2,077 Responses

…. if you wonder why so many Jews are liberal and won’t vote Republican ….

Wonder no more. It is because they are not Jewish at all, but are Neo-Darwinist atheistic totalitarians of Jewish descent! Are no more “Jewish,” that is, than Richard Dawkins is “Christian.

Brian Richard Allen on February 27, 2015 at 9:35 am

You should speak to the children of the families who hid Jews under their kitchen tables during WWII and who subjected their families to instantaneous execution if discovered. Please stop perpetuating hate and ignorance.

http://www.phi966.org/polish-americans-find-help-in-war-on-holocaust-ignorance.html

Lidia Goldsmith on March 28, 2015 at 9:42 am

You call Debbie stupid.

Let’s see: widespread Polish anti-Semitism, the Jewish ghettos, helping the Germans build and run the camps, turning Jews over to the Germans and helping to kill them, I guess all that escapes your notice.

Debbie writes about things that are the opposite of the conventional wisdom. It may make her controversial but it doesn’t make her stupid!

Debbie is quite knowledgeable about history and you need to think before you write. What is she – chopped liver? No, she is 100% accurate including on the way people should have addressed this issue instead of all ganging up on Obama.

Even a President who gets its mostly wrong gets it right once in awhile. That was her point.

NormanF on May 30, 2012 at 2:23 pm

Just for the record My father was Jewish and survived World War II thanks to one polish family, who are my Grandparents now. My Father real parents got murdered by Nazis. This Polish family raised him like their own son, he grow up in Poland and I was born in Poland and this Polish family loves me now like my real grandparents. They are still alive. It’s just sad that no one remembers people like that.

IH: Actually, we do remember people like that. But we remember the big picture that you choose to ignore in favor of one anecdote. Had you bothered to read what I wrote above, you’d know that these righteous Polish were few and far between and very rare among the vast majority of 35 million Poles who were mostly Jew-haters and Nazi accessories. There is a reason that half of the Holocaust’s 6 million victims were Polish Jews: that many of the Holocaust’s willing participants and executioners were Poles who hated Jews. DS

ivona hofses on May 30, 2012 at 2:35 pm

Over 5 million Poles were killed in WW2, the highest percentage in any country. At least half were not Jewish. While some of them might not have been angels, it does not reflect well on you to try to belittle their contribution to the war.

C J Walters on May 30, 2012 at 4:13 pm

Have no idea where from you get your information, but population of Poland before the II WW wasn’t 35 000 000 people. 24 000 000 were Poles, 3 500 000 Jewish… And 1 000 000 others

K: WRONG. Poland had 35 million people in 1939 and 24 million in 1946. http://www.country-studies.com/poland/population.html
Facts are stubborn things. Have no idea where you got your info. And, far more important, I don’t care. I deal in facts, not the fantasies of Polish apologists like you. DS

karo on May 30, 2012 at 5:09 pm

Maybe they were few and far between because they would have been killed too if discovered. How many Jewish families (or any differing group) would have risked their own lives and their children’s lives to save other people?

mary michaels on May 31, 2012 at 9:46 am

No one remembers the “good” Poles because they were so few and far between. The fact is that the Germans were much smarter and more efficient than the Poles. The end goals were the same.

lexi on May 31, 2012 at 10:36 am

I just cannot read what you put in there. You are so ignorant, you do not even to read all of those comments based on facts!! You just making yourself up some ideas which has no cover at all!! As my fried typed above, that even there was DEATH PENALTY for hiding Jews!!! another thing is that your thinking is not based on any historic facts. Obviously, everywhere you will find some racist but making it general for all poles is just at least stupid. Last thing is that Obama should not have Nobel at the beginning of his cadence!! He started war with Libya and going for more!!! It shows how you Americans are ignorant and corrupt in the highest positions in hierarchy (and not only as your example can show it)!!

Adam on June 5, 2012 at 7:46 am

If Poles hated Jews so dearly why there were so many Jews living on the territory of Poland between the great wars? It was actually 10% of the whole population! The highest percentage among all European countries and as far as I remember the highest absolute number. The answer is: because Poland was for centuries the most tolerant and friendly country for them. Why were there so many death camps built in Poland?
a)because the concentration of Jews was the highest there.
b) because Poland is in the middle of Europe (cheapest cost of transportation to get the Nazi all-european extermination plan going)
Also:
-there was a death penalty imposed on Poles by Germans for helping a Jew. Even though the most Righteous among the Nations designated by Israel are Poles.
Germany invaded Poland in 1939 and as a result of this invasion, 5.5m Poles died (including 2.5 million Polish Jews)- -so not only Jews died in Poland during WWII…
-There was ZERO concentration camps nor forcibly organized ghettos for Jews before Poland was invaded by Germans. ZERO!
So check your premises and cut the BS anyone.

timo on June 5, 2012 at 7:28 pm

on and on:

1) what nation helped Jews at most according to Yad Vashem?: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Righteous_among_the_Nations_by_country

2) why Poland was THE ONLY ONE contry during WWII, in which you were sentenced to death for helping Jews????

stupid ignorants…

uncool_ben on June 6, 2012 at 5:15 am

Ivona Hofses, you should be extradited to Poland and face a trial for offending my country and 38 000 000 Polish people, you lier. 3 millions of Poles died and 3 millions of Jews. Do you see the proportion? Who collaborated with Germans? Those 3 mln murdered people, many in death camps? I reported your post to a court. Your IP is known to the hosting company. You will pay for your lies!

Pawel33 on June 6, 2012 at 7:28 am

It is funny DS how you just neglected the witness while you were basing your dirty soup knowledge on what your late grandfather had heard. I agree with NormanF you do not miss education at all! You know facts very well but cover them in mist. You are just “smart” and well supported being approaching personal disaster.

kjm on June 6, 2012 at 7:29 am

Do you have a kind of document, figures to prove it? Or it is your sick imagination? The words cost nothing.. Have you ever been to PL, speaking with survived people? Have you ever seen terror in Poles eyes fighting with nazi? Are you able to understand it? You are worth as much as nazi themselves..

yaro on June 6, 2012 at 7:51 am

“There is a reason that half of the Holocaust’s 6 million victims were Polish Jews”

Of course there is – those death camps were located (surprise!) in Poland.
If they were located in US, vast majority of Jews (hipotetically) killed there would be American Jews. It’s that simple.

Konrad on June 6, 2012 at 8:07 am

DS – By saying that majority Poles during WWII were Jew-haters, and in other post claiming that you deal in facts; please give us that: the facts – what is that number you call ‘vast majority’, 60%? maybe 80%? or 20 million?
Give us that fact please and let us know where you got from.
And, just out of curiosity, do you think Americans are Jew-haters too? Since there are so many Jews living here in US nowadyas… There were so many living in Poland during WWII….

MT on June 6, 2012 at 8:52 am

Polulation of Poland was not 35 million before the war.

For each Polish who denounced Jews during the war (in total 3000 cases), there was about 100 who helped Jews (in total 300,000 confirmed cases).

3 million Poles was killed in concentration camps by Nazi Germany.

These are facts for ignorant people.

Kristof on June 6, 2012 at 10:39 am

What Debbie is doing here she is provoking to get more clicks in her ”Blog” she is like Sarah Silverman in JOurnalism, she onl’y gets shock laughs.

No back to Poland.
This is outrageoues, if Poland was so bad for the Jews, why Poland had the biggest Jewish Population in Europe, if i remeber correctly, Jews run away from ”civilizaed” West EU to Poland becuase they were given the same rights at ethinc poles? Poland never surrender to Nazi, Poland created the only gov. aid movement aiding Jews – ZEGOTA, penalty for helping Jews in POland was death penalty, Poland nr.1 in Yad Vashem, Irena Sendler, Witold Pilecki, Karski and many others did something americans never did, yes, pelase tell me, what USA did to help Jews in NAzi Occupied Europe? Hmmm? Don’t you think D-DAY was bit to late, they could at least bomb the rails tracks to Auschwitz, but know, let them die so we can create Israel, Debbie, i am sorry, you are so wrong, to much Zionism?

Adam Goldbaum from Poland on June 6, 2012 at 11:09 am

Debbie, I see you’re 43 by now. No worries, there’s still enough time for you to start learning before externalizing your ignorant and primitive thoughts again.
Let’s start the lesson now. You know, the faster, the better.
Firstly, You claim:
“I deal in facts, not the fantasies of Polish apologists like you”
So let’s have a look on what You write – I will only take under considiration 3 random things, cause to comment on all your nonsense would take a book to wirte:
1) “Poles murdered millions of Jews, they maintained several death camps, and they wiped out (…) hundreds of thousands of Jewish families” – ignorance, NOT a fact. Any reliable historical source to prove it? None. Cause they don’t exist.
2) “There is a reason why Poland was so easily occupied by the Germans. Yeah, I know–they were “just taking orders.” Just taking orders when they helped round up Jews and helped man gas chambers.” – ignorance, NOT a fact. Actually, Your statement is quite funny for anyone known with history. I will provide you with facts in a moment.
3) “Someone needs to remind Mr. Tusk that his people were the ones doing the hurting and the turning over to the Nazis and the mass murder of at least half of the six million Jews killed in the Holocaust” – ignorance, NOT a fact. Again – any reliable scientifical source to support this thought? No, cause such don’t exist.

So now – to get you familiar with facts.
1) In the occupied Europe ones who killed the Jews, were Germans. Nazi Germans, precisely. Any other Jew-Killer during WW2 was either a collaborator, or an exception. By that I mean, that there were cases in which the Jews killed the Jews(!) during Holocaust. Under the first national category above You could place any other nation of the WW2 occupied Europe, but they’re such a minority, You can’t even say that one nation was more anti-semitic then the other.
As a matter of fact there were, as I said earlier, exceptions. One of which happened in the village of Jedwabne located in current east parts of Poland, where they burnt their Jewish neighbours in the barn. Sad, but true. Nevertheless those were exceptions.
2) Well, as I said your statement was funny there, but considering how much the Poles and Poland suffered during WW2, one would stop laughing.
Around 6 milion(actually the number could be higher, but let’s skip that important notion) Polish citizens were killed due to war. Around half of them were Jewish, many of which claimed themselves to be assimilated and thus Polish. Plenty of Poles were killed in concentration and death camps(both Nazi and Soviet), as they were destined to be killed. Of course, you had to bear in mind that being Jewish in a concetration/death camp meant you were most likely to die, while being Polish “just” meant that you were very likely to die. Ridiculous it seems, doesn’t it? But such was the reality of WW2…
Poland was the only(not 100% sure if the only) country in Europe in which for hiding Jews, you would receive a death penalty. In addition, your family was very likely to be killed too. Doesn’t absolve people, why denounced hiding(if they were hiding, they had to be helped by someone, a Pole precisely) Jews? No, it doesn’t. But it certainly explains why some of Poles were to scared to help.
Finally, Home Army in occupied Poland was the biggest and most effective underground organisation in Europe created to fight the Nazis. Warsaw Uprising(VIII – X 1944) was the biggest fight that occupied Europe gave the Germans. It received virtually no help from the Allies(even though Home Army was in fact an Allied army). As a matter of fact occupation of Poland was the toughest Nazis received, even though, again, Allies didn’t help Poles that much and it was under the most harsh conditions in Europe.
3) Absurd. To understand that, read what I’ve read above again.

These ARE FACTS. Before I end though, I need to make one further, sad notion. Reading your other posts on this blog I realize that your vision of morality is a very primitive one. Well, I suppose I have a very interesting fact for You. It happens that after the WW2 Jews participated in killing or imprisioning thousands(and more) of polish soldiers(many of which were heroes) fighting against Nazi Germany and Sovier Russia during WW2. Your primitive morality should be appeased with that.
My morality isn’t, because killing is killing and evil is evil. Killing and being evil to people is never right, under no circumstances.

BB on June 6, 2012 at 11:53 am

“Had you bothered to read what I wrote above, you’d know that these righteous Polish were few and far between”

Debbie, tsk tsk: With this comment you reveal much about yourself: 1) you consider yourself an authority on the issue, 2) you are not courteous but cocky 3) you assumed the reader did not read the artice and in fact imposed a hierarchy upon yourself over the reader: Do you also consider yourself an elitist? These are the skills that you need to work on isolating to become a better journalist.

Otto on June 6, 2012 at 12:20 pm

Another one, who doesnt know nothing about history! Come here to Poland, ask combatants who are still alive! There is no more stupid country than USA! Your education level is far behind European, especcialy Polish! I would punch you in your ugly face!
For Poland!

Bart on June 6, 2012 at 12:30 pm

Can you tell us the percentage of “Holocaust’s willing participants and executioners who were Poles”? Or is it just a “common wisdom” among the American Jewish diaspora?
How many percent of Polish population were “participants and executioners”…..0.1%, 0.0001% or 0.00000001% ?
Or perhaps you confused Poles with Germans? I understand, all these European people are so similar, no?

ella on June 6, 2012 at 2:26 pm

Vast majority? What are you talking about? Fortunately, there have been people making records about what was going on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C5%82adys%C5%82aw_Bartoszewski
This man is Auchwitz survivor himself. He studied history for years and has written numerous books on what situation was like. You may say: yeah, he is Polish, he knows nothing. But check thease books out. There are no opinions there, just raw data. And they are the proof that what you’re saying is not true. Just read books, look at facts and you’ll surely change your mind.

Ok, there have been, there still are anti-Jews in Poland. Situation is never black or white. There are always shades of grey. But, do these people count? They’re a little minority of stupid fags that should never have been born.

Polish building camps? For what? For dying there? You must be kidding. This a pure joke.

Finally, look at the structure of Polish society before IIWW. High percent of Jewish people lived in Poland. This is the reason why so many Polish Jews died in Holocaust: Nazis killed Jews and because many Jews lived in Poland, therefore many Polish Jews died. You don’t have to be a genius to prove that.

Krzysiek on June 6, 2012 at 7:07 pm

5 million poles? Sounds like a little bit of justice to me.

As Goes... on May 30, 2012 at 4:59 pm

Notice that Jew hater CJ, who never misses an opportunity to defend Islam, now weighs in against Jews in a new contact. The one constant its that this filth is always against Jews.

skzion on May 30, 2012 at 11:43 pm

Do you mean collaboration when you say contribution? Poland pursued an idiotic foreign policy for years. It was even happy to take a slice of the Czechoslovak carcass from Adolf Hitler’s hand in 1938. It is only when the Third Reich came to collect the bill(Versailles Treaty cessions of former German territory to Poland after World War I)that Poland finally balked. It had yawned over the plight of Austria and Czechoslovakia, which should have been a warning to it. In the end, the Polish government had betrayed its own people in its dealings with Germany. Those fancy men in top hats fled long before Warsaw had even fallen. Some Poles did serve honorably abroad in the R.A.F. and other services. However, the ones who remained behind all too often chose to go beyond what it was necessary to do simply to survive. Those people were collaborators.

Who staffed Germany’s Generalgouvernement für die besetzten polnischen Gebiete? This was Poland’s new government formed out of the rump of the old Polish state? Could the Germans have done a thing without a Polish speaking bureaucracy? This government lasted from 1939-1945, and was only terminated when the Soviets got around to shutting it down. The Polish Resistance, much like the French version, was more useful as Allied war propaganda than as an actual opposing force. There were indeed acts of heroism that could be tied to resistance, but they were more of a sore than a wound to the occupiers.

That is reality C.J. Debbie is not denigrating those who actually did do the right thing, but the all too many who did not a thing or even truckled to their new masters. It is akin to how many anti-Nazi Germans appeared out of no where(after burning their Waffen S.S.uniforms). Heinrich Himmler tried this little gambit in a Sgt-Major’s uniform, but his tidy paperwork gave the game away. The point is that many people try to pretend to be things that they were not during a war or in the aftermath of the fall of a bad regime. This is motivated by self-preservation, or more rarely actual feelings of guilt.

Worry01 on May 31, 2012 at 2:57 am

Debbie Schlussel if Poland is as terribly anti-semitic as you say it is, WHY were Jews so dumb to live in Poland for ONE THOUSAND YEARS????

Honest to God if Poland is as hostile to Jews as you accuse Poland of (of course you IGNORE all the horrible things Polish Jews collaborating with the Soviets did to Poles) Jews have to be complete idiots or insane to CHOOSE to live in Poland for ONE THOUSAND YEARS!!

Why did MOST Jews CHOOSE to live in Poland? on July 2, 2012 at 8:41 pm

I hope you aren’t Jewish, only some stupid troll.

karo on May 30, 2012 at 5:03 pm

Debbie Schlusel …. here is one for you >>>
In 1920s, a jew travels from his small polish shtetl to warsaw . When he returns , he tells his frienda of the WONDERS he has seen :
” i met a jew who had grown up in yeshiva and knew larger section of Talmud by heart.I meta jew who was an atheist. I met a jew who own a larger clothing store with many employees , AND I met a jew whowas an arden communist”

” So what’s so strange? ” friend asked . Warsaw is a big City. There must be a million Jews there.”

” Your don’t understand ” the man unswers.

” It was the same JEW ”

P.S. Where were American Jewelry,,,,,, why they refused to help Europiean Jews ? bros ! ha ? /
Keep on blamin people that had to make a choice……survive or DEATH ! got it maddammmmm ! D.Sch . Anty-Polonizm become you :_(((( . what a shame , > you took it OUT OF CONTECST. Why don’t you prezent the WHOLE PICTURE , so people can drow it’s own conclussins without you IMPOUSING YOUR VIEW on THEM … TALK ABOUT JEWS COLABORATIN WITH HITLER , JEWS THAT SERVED IN STALINS RED ARMY { 40 % OF JEWS DID }, TALK ABOT HOW THEY SLOTERED POLISH PEOPLE ……

D. SCH . ! , ONECE > PLEASE ONCE …OWN IT ! ;- have guts ;-

sorry about MY MISSPELS ,

MAYA WIERTEL on June 5, 2012 at 10:13 am

Karo,

If that was addressed to me, what has it got to do with anything?

C J Walters on May 30, 2012 at 5:12 pm

Hey Karo

You’re a punk fool if you don’t realized that blood will be required of you for the murder of others. Plus, you make up numbers to boost your propaganda.

I can only hope blood of Poles was demanded by God for these acts of murder… Judgment Day is coming for all sins.

As Goes... on May 30, 2012 at 5:35 pm

CJ Walters – of course not. It was addressed to “as goes”.

karo on May 30, 2012 at 5:13 pm

Karo

You’re a Pollock Apologists. That’s just plain pathetic.

As Goes... on May 30, 2012 at 5:41 pm

Ok, my mistake. Right, Poland in ’39 had 35 millions.

BUT about the rest I’m right –
Poland was after over 100 yrs of partition, so NOT ALL residents of Poland were actually Poles.

24 millions – Polish
over 3 mln – Jewish
almost 1 mln – Germans
almost 7 mln – Ukrainian/Belarusian/Russian

karo on May 30, 2012 at 6:22 pm

http://www.country-studies.com/poland/population.html…. no way what a great source, who wrote that? you now…
little advice to DS: sometimes for an article you have to read few BOOKS(come on- at least one, I know you can do this). Then your readers will think that you know something about what you write :)
Besides It’s sad that you try, but really you expose your own wickness. You know nothing about this case and just doing controversy noise about it but new information: it’s just not enough to be a great journalist/columnist. Your way of doing your job is embarrassing.

monica on June 6, 2012 at 3:18 am

A little pre-war Polish History is in order. Poland gave the democratic Weimar Republic the cold shoulder from 1919-1933. Roughly after Adolf Hitler came to power, Poland happily signed the German–Polish Non-Aggression Pact of 1934. The effect of this treaty, which Adolf Hitler knew all too well, was to implicitly repudiate previous security arrangements with France and Great Britain. This bit of Polish shortsightedness allowed the Third Reich to reoccupy and militarize the Rhineland, annex Austria, and finally dismember Czechoslovakia. The ironic thing is Poland happily took a piece of formerly Czechoslovakian territory as a little gift from Hitler in 1938. Adolf Hitler did this in order to strip away the Polish veneer of innocent victimhood. By 1939, Poland was isolated, weak, and internationally discredited by its previous actions. Hitler revoked Poland’s honorary Axis membership when Germany’s territorial demands were refused, and partitioned Poland with the help of the Soviet Union. Poland, as the result of some very bad decision-making, brought on its own disaster.

As for anti-Semetism, it was quite endemic in Poland. A Jew in Poland could only be viewed as better off relative to what they would have experienced in Nationalist Socialist Germany before the Second World War.

Worry01 on May 30, 2012 at 10:14 pm

Norman i dont know what to say. You are just completly ignorant and have no knowledge about second world war. It’s just sad.

Polisch guy on June 5, 2012 at 6:27 am

Hi,
good job offending me, my family, my country and all people that died during WW2 helping Jews while Germans was committing mass murder.
Wait for a lawsuit since your IQ wont accept any arguments.

Just be aware one thing. Jews in Europe sold their own people to gas chambers just to stay alive and secure their wealth. I’m talking about ones that had enough money to buy their freedom in exchange for lives of their brothers.

You should be ashamed. Your ignorance and lack of knowledge is just unbelievable. Go back to school. Learn history. Try again later…

G on June 5, 2012 at 6:29 am

You too don’t even know history. My granfather and most of our past family were fightning against Nazis, and you even didn’t move your a$$ in 1940’s cause you weren’t even a $permatozoid these days. Go back to school LIAR.

ppp on June 5, 2012 at 6:57 am

Poland was the death penalty for helping Jews that brought the German invader.

Key Schlüssel on June 5, 2012 at 7:54 am

NormanF@ but ghettos, camps were built by inmates (Jewish or Polish or from other countries), but all of them were inmates. You are repeating example of Jedwabne, but if you want I can give you similar example, where Jews (with Russians) were aggressors and Poles where victims.

Try to think: will you build a camp with other inmates when somebody is threatening you with a gun?

Krzysztof Jankowski on June 5, 2012 at 8:08 am

Dear Mr NormanF,

It is an undoubtful truth, that there was a group of Poles that helped Germans during World War II. However, the information presented in the article suggests that this gruoup was the vast majority of Poles. Therefore, in my opinion, this article cannot be considered as controversial- it’s just a manipulation. The article, just the same as your response, presents no historical data: no numbers, just a few names, just a few camp names. Germans killed 6 millions of Polish citizens (3 million polish Jews). Why did they kill 3 million non-Jewish polish citizens, if Poles were suuporting German Holocaust machine, as Debbie suggests? You may also wonder why so many camps were located in occupied Poland. I’ll tell you: Poland is located just in the middle of the Europe- just beetween Ural mountains (in Russia) and the coasts of Portugal. Germany planned to control the whole Europe, so this location would allow them to transport Jews to camps really fast.

You say that our wisdom is conventional. I say that our European wisdom is closer to real knowledge than your (and miss Shlussel) American wisdom. If you are willing to understand us, you’d better read some Norman Davies books. I reccomend Uprising ’44.

KP on June 5, 2012 at 8:41 am

You do know, that there was a death penalty for helping Jews in Poland, not only for you, but for your entire family ( kids included ). How about whole neighbours families being send to concentration camp for not informing Germans about it? Want more “lies” like that? Do your digging, find sources, read books. I am very interested in stories about Proud Americans and your help for Jews during WWII. Found anything?

przemn on June 5, 2012 at 9:06 am

This is not just stupid, this is total ignorance…
During Second World War Polish fought against Nazi forces all over the world. Also in the territory of occupied Poland.
Do you know what ‘Zegota’ was? There was a part of conspiracy organisation helping Jews being kept by Germans in ghetto.
And many Poles died for helpig Jews to surrvive.
The list of camps you mentioned were German camps and Polish were kept there as well. There were no Polish guards (maybe Ukrainian and Latvian, but defenetely no Polish). In fact, in all ocupated countries there were colaborative regimes and local army forces figting together hand by hand with German SS-forces against Soviets f.ex.Denmark, Slovakia, Ukraine, Russia, Holland and even your so beloved France.
There was only one nation that did not do it. You want to know wchich nation? I will tell you – Polish!
BTW 6 mln Jews were killed during that war and 6 mln Poles were killed during that war. The both nations were victims, none of them were agressors.
If you don’t know the facts, don’t write about them. This is humiliating for yourself.

Bartek on June 5, 2012 at 9:41 am

“Debbie is quite knowledgeable about history”

The death toll of 6 Mio relates th 2 historic facts.

1/ 6 000 000 Jews killed becouse Germany has begun war. Almost all of them killed by Germans. Half of this Jews lived in Poland before 1939.

2/ 6 000 000 of Polish citizerns (half of them Jews) were killed during WWII

Try to hide 3 Mio people in 32 Mio nation. Every 10th person in Poland was Jew.

If you need more start at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_concentration_camp

and go further

Finally please – do not bullshit about “knowledgeable Debbie”

kmkoval on June 5, 2012 at 9:58 am

Polish people also died in those camps. Polish land was occupied by Germans (Nazi’s) but Poles (most of them) tried to help Jews as much as they could. They saved hundreds of children from ghettos (btw. ghettos weren’t build and run by Poles).

What’s stated in this article is offensive and disrespectful to millions of Poles who died during WWII (including camps).

B on June 5, 2012 at 10:09 am

Go back to primary school, learn some history and then make comments Norman.

John Reynolds on June 5, 2012 at 11:58 am

I heard that jewish people were killing jewish people for a buttle of whisky.

Damian Dr?gowski on June 5, 2012 at 1:39 pm

“Debbie writes about things that are the opposite of the conventional wisdom”.
Yes,It’s opposite indeed but of this time continuum so that makes her either brilliant SF author or rubbish and ignorant blogger.

Wojtek Wu on June 5, 2012 at 2:11 pm

Norman, I don’t see were Debbie deployes her historical skills. She gives no references, no links (EXCEPT OF ONE). There was no collaboration of Poles with Nazis. Sad how it is, there was in turn guilt of American Jews whio did nothing to support Polish attempts to press Germany to stop Holocaust. WHy, Norman, why??? I think America or American Jews should pay some indemnisation for Polish Jews for this collaboration in Holocaust.
cheers

Wojciech Miara on June 5, 2012 at 2:26 pm

All this thinks what she told in not wisdom but ignorant stupidity etc, etc ….. and leak of basic historic knowledge.I advice to read aboat it, best will be books by Norman Davise .

rafal on June 5, 2012 at 7:06 pm

You are the same ignorant as Debbie is (about this period of the history). I advice reading more books (instead of FACEBOOK).

teacher on June 5, 2012 at 7:34 pm

Norman – wish I had all the brains that you are lacking :)

artek on June 5, 2012 at 7:58 pm

Sorry, Norman, but there is no such thing as “conventional” or “unconventional” wisdom. Either you know something about the problem you write about, or no. Debbie’s knowledge is extremely miserable in spite of Google existence.

I can easily understand surviving old Jews remembering, when they looked for help in despair and couldn’t get one, sometimes meeting cruelty of shmaltzovniks or ordinary crooks and today remembering this every day panic fear, and in consequence hating and blaming those, who didn’t help.

But expecting and demanding heroism is immoral, expecting and demanding from the people to risk their and their families lives is immoral too, as such was the punishment for hiding Jews in Poland during WW2. I once watched a French film, where a man is convicted for 2 years imprisonment for hiding his Jewish friend; I checked it ’cause I didn’t believe it – and yes, such were the sanctions for hiding Jews in France. Is there any comparison? No. And in spite of this French Jews were killed as well.

Many times Poles are mistakenly identified with so called “volksdeutsch”, “reichsdeutsch” (Germans with Polish before-war citizenship), Ukrainians or Lithuanians – they frequently spoke Polish, because before-WW2 Poland was multi-ethnic. These nationalities could serve in Waffen SS, as there were organised regiments for them. But there was not a single SS regiment manned by Poles.

Debbie wrote about Poland “easily losing war against Germans”, which is a proof of her ignorance. Poles kept their lines of defense until September 17th, 1939, when soviets attacked from the other side according to Ribbentropp-Molotov treaty. The last organized greater Polish troops surrendered in the beginning of October fighting both against Germans and Russians because of lack of ammo and supplies. Poland defended on two fronts for 36 days and Polish government never signed capitulation. First German murders on Poles started in the very beginning of the campaign (see for one of numerous examples the execution of 200 civilian dwellers of Z?oczów by SS Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler or Zimnowoda and Parzymiechy with 120 casualties by regular Wehrmacht troops). Not a single case of murdering Jews by Poles has been revealed in that time.

Much more powerful France fought for only a week longer on only one front and having a significant help of Brits, Belgians and Dutch as well as some Polish troops hurriedly organized from the remnants evacuated from Poland via Romania.

It is therefore obvious that Debbie drivels at the very beginning of her note and is incompetent and/or ill-willed.

Piotr Kulas on June 5, 2012 at 11:50 pm

she spreads lies – didn’t that escape your notice?

ianus on June 6, 2012 at 1:22 am

helping the Germans to build and run the camps?? are you an idiot?! If someone will poina a gun in your haed and tell you to do something, would you name it “helping” or beeing forced?! Debbie is quite knowledgeable about history?! maybe but only the history she’s been taught!!
I agree that this f..ing theater with Obama is not quite right move from Polish side but placeing polish eagle next to nazi swast is sick.

bart on June 6, 2012 at 1:55 am

Well, I agree with you that she is not stupid.
She is just a liar and not honest. She is against Polish by purpose.

Of course there were Polish that were criminals, murderers or just helping to kill Jews. Yes. In USA today – dint you have murderers? So, can I say that all Americans are criminals? No? Why?
Becouse criminals are only a small part of citizens? Hmm, do you know (know doesnt mean “I heard someone who saw a photo of a person who possibly said someting about this”) how many Poles help Germans by their will. Becouse you of course know that Poland was invaded and under brutal occupation. That Poles were sent to GERMAN camps as well as Jews. That for helping Jews all Polish families were sentenced death. BTW – Would you risk your family life to save someone?

In other post you wrote also:
The Poles were not only Hitler’s victims, they were his willing fellow accomplices and executioners. No rewriting of history can conceal this truth.
If it was like this there whould be hundereds of documents, historical articles, photos, generally PROOFS. Show it, link it.
Against your point I can give 2 proofs (there are more but this 2 should be ok for start):
– article is related to Mr Karski (Pole) who allarmed Allies about Jews extermination (by Germans).
– many Poles heleped Jews (risking the death penalty for whole families) and they were named by righteous ones by Yad Vashem (http://www.yadvashem.org/)

Show your proofs or admit you were wrong.

Maciej ?wiek on June 6, 2012 at 5:00 am

I’m under great impression of your historical ignorance also debbie’s. No wonder that rest of the world laughs at american stupidity and ignorance. But thats the way you’ve been raised up in a country with so little history that you think you don’t need to know history at all.Only to remind you, as probably your school didn’t mention that: it was Us who first said no to hitlers demand and occupied it with blood streams while Our allies couardly left us alone. People with no honor, that back in 1938 choosed hitler as a man of the year. Don’t make me laugh no more please. Start to study history if you want to speak about history

Lech on June 6, 2012 at 9:35 am

no, debbie has no knowledge of history, because she contadicts FACTS. death camps in poland were GERMAN death camps and also over 3 million poles-non jews were killed during ww2 [together with 3 million of polish jews [these jews regarded themselves as poles of jewish faith]], many of them for helping jews, together with their whole families – from granny to newborns.
and it is not “common wisdom” that camps were GERMAN and poles were actually HELPING jews, not KILLING them, no no, these are FACTS.

jew from poland on June 6, 2012 at 9:58 am

Dear NormanF.
On that War was one simple rule :’Kill or You will be killed’
I believe You will not die. So You think it’s Your fault You want to save Your life??
How Debbie could blame Poland? I believe Amerinan people will save his life too in this situation!

Alex on June 6, 2012 at 11:59 am

Where is “widespread Polish anti-semitism”? Plesae, tell me, because i’m Jew, i’m Polish, i live in this country – and i don’t know.

proud&patriot on June 6, 2012 at 12:44 pm

Norman, you mean Debbie knows the truth but she is a lier?

Andy Pieniazek on June 6, 2012 at 2:06 pm

Debbie, In case you missed my post on your Facebook page:

Debbie,I am quite disturbed by your article. You are an educated woman and should learn to exercise sound judgment and respect. Have you no shame? How can you blame an ENTIRE nation and tell them they have no just reason to defend themselves from your misguided claims or those of anyone else? I am a first generation American with Polish parents and am saddened to see the pain you have caused them and so many others. These people (and not just a righteous few) bear scars from a
time one could only wish to forget. Were you there? Were you present during WWII, the Holocaust? You declare anti-semitism,
fraudulence…you are such a HYPOCRITE! I think your moral compass needs to be replaced…it doesn’t seem to be pointing you in the right or should I say “true” direction. Let me help you find a starting point in whatever it is that you are trying to accomplish (because it’s not absolute truth). For a
moment, pretend you are completely ignorant (I’d set aside the sarcasm if your article wasn’t entirely offensive and denigrating), look up terms like “Lebensraum”, “Zentralstelle IIP Polen”, “Lebensborn”, “Sippenhaft”…shall I continue? Make sure to search those terms in the context of non-Jewish Poles and let all of us know what you find(now, now, don’t be biased). Truth and honesty seem to evade you yet you try so hard to be a beacon of justice – I read some of your other
articles and while I respect your resolve, I do opine that you’d better serve yourself by taking an extended time-out (please no talking during this time). Have you ever been to Poland? Maybe it’s time you go. Have you any idea how many Poles are estimated to have aided the Jews? Are you aware of the consequences? How could you be? You state, “Yes, there were a few righteous gentile Poles who saved Jews. A very tiny few. The majority were all too happy for the Judenrein, especially in the way it took place”. HAHA! I think you
should consider a career in stand-up comedy. That statement alone is as preposterous as those made by people who claim the Holocaust never even happened (maybe you should go after them instead). It is estimated in various sources that 500,000 to upwards of 2,000,000 million Poles aided the Jews whether providing them food, shelter,clothing, protection…and they put their lives on the line, many were executed for doing what they believed was morally right (even though Polish people are probably too ignorant and stupid to have morals,
right? There’s that darn sarcasm again!) I won’t deny the
possibilities or facts that non-Jewish Poles were responsible for the deaths of Jewish families out of selfish motives or self-preservation,but how dare you fault an entire people, discount the atrocities they suffered and the risks they took to save the lives of Jews. The facts may not be as compelling to you because unfortunately, records of those who gave their lives to save Jewish families are not as prominent (many records/accounts were destroyed under Stalin’s rule), but why waste the effort on you, you lack faith beyond your
own self-righteousness. For your information, Auschwitz was initially reserved for Poles, not Jews. Later, Birkenau was erected as a killing camp for Poles and Soviet war-prisoners and then became a “Final Solution” for Jews. Poles were killed hand-in-hand with Jews and there are millions of Poles who can recount stories of sisters, mothers, brothers, fathers, aunts, and so on that were killed in a camp or anywhecan else. I can tell my own on behalf of my ancestors. You overlook the torture Hitlers men utilized…kill that man or watch me
shoot your wife or child in the head. Think you would have been so strong and convicted then? Grow up and get over yourself.

It is tragic that your family had to endure and suffer and it is tragic that it was at the hands of Poles as you say (in addition to the Nazis), but you are no better than those brothers and sisters that turned on your very family. Your “accomplishments” and “education” do not make you an intelligent individual, in fact, you are an exemplary symbol of ignorance. Your Jewish brothers and sisters are so innocent? As an example, consider The Sonderkommandos who “tend to be regarded very negatively by most survivors, and to a certain extent the Jewish establishment in general. In the camps, the Sonderkommandos were seen as unclean, and the writer Primo Levi described them as being “akin to collaborators.” He said that their testimonies should not be given much credence, “since they had much to atone for and would naturally attempt to rehabilitate themselves at the expense of the truth.” Those who were members of the Sonderkommando, however, state they had no choice in their job, and they were as much victims of Nazi oppression as other prisoners in the concentration camps”.
Did you not state that, “Yeah, I know–they were “just taking orders. Just taking orders when they helped round up Jews and helped man gas chambers.”. Oh really, so The Sonderkommando were forced and oppressed to do the same by the Nazis but the Poles were simply “eager”. It’s just a bit ironic that you would think so. What do you make of Jews hired by the Russian KGB to murder participants in the Polish underground movement? Do you not realize that many atrocities were part of the “plan”? Hitler was a cunning man who knew what he was doing and exactly how to promulgate the first ripple of his strategy – the rest fell into place like dominos. Oppression, degradation, death and despair made men and women behave like dogs, but this alone is not reserved for Poles. PEOPLE (not just Jews, Poles, and etc.) were stripped of their dignity and human rights so don’t act as if though the tragedy of the Holocaust is solely reserved for your Jewish ancestors.
You defame an entire nation by calling it ignorant and Anti-Semitic, among other things I mention in my first post, but you exude the very hatred that flowed through the veins of the darkest of men and women and made them capable of objectionable, moral crimes. So your studies and history really have taught you nothing because it is not about humanity to you. You still make it an issue of US vs. THEM.
It is out-right selfish, narrow and childish.
I am sad for you because it seems you only use facts that support your argument while anything counter to your OPINION is garbage. It really is a waste of talent and hard work. You are venomous and your judgement will come.

Kuki on June 6, 2012 at 3:17 pm

its logical mistake if u stretch knowledge about few members of x population to whole population. its basic, stupid and wise people dont do that. this gives us right to call her silly blond woman… another thing is that history doesnt have anything to do with someones opinion, it’s all about facts. u can judge facts and but u cant make them up, its another stupid mistake. its shame someone like her calls himself a journalist but its even bigger shame if dailies aspiring to be reliable print these rubbish writing. what do they think about their readers? is it all about money? what she does? i wouldnt be surprised, all jewish culture is based on money…

marcin on June 6, 2012 at 3:35 pm

quote- Let’s see: widespread Polish anti-Semitism, the Jewish ghettos, helping the Germans build and run the camps, turning Jews over to the Germans and helping to kill them, I guess all that escapes your notice.

1. widespread Polish anti-Semitism – not a fact, just an opinion. There is no such a thing as widespread Polish anti-Semitism. Where did you get it from. I am sure you did not learn this from experience, you are just repeating wrong opinions it does not have anything incommon with reality
2. the Jewish ghettos – what about them. they were build and run by Germans during WW2. Poles did nothing to build ghettos, actually they helped jews in ghettos (eg Irena Sendlerowa – check this name in wikipedia you moron)
3. Poles did not help to build and run concentration camp – what a bullshit. Why are you saying that.
And so on. Everything you wrote is a complete bullshit. Try to form your opinions on true knowledge, facts and best on your experiences, dont repeat stupid opinions because than you are just a stupid puppet

Michal Goralczyk on June 6, 2012 at 5:15 pm

Dear NormanF

Maybe you don’t know it, but in Poland before IIWW Polish, Jewish, Ukrainian, Belarussian and other nations lived together peacefully. There were Jewish districts in some Polish cities just like Chinese had their Chinatowns in American metropolies – but it wasn’t a rule. There wasn’t any Jewish ghettos in Poland before Nazi-Soviet invasion in 1939. First ghettos were build by Germans after fall of the Polish State.

The truth about Polish collaboration with Germans during WWII is that it never happened. Poland was the only country in entire Europe which was occupied by Germany and never established collaborationist government (French, Norwegians, and others did). Instead of that Poles established underground state in opposition to German occupation, run the strongest and the best organised resistance in entire Europe – about 380 000 soldiers in 1943. Polish underground state issued also sentences for traitors who cooperated with German occupant – the only possible sentece was death penalty. Nevertheless these underground organisations couldn’t exist without support of the entire nation. The spirit of fight against Germans was so widespread that even teens and kids wanted to kick them out from our home. For example: uncle of my father shoot german soldier when he was only 7 years old; look at little soldiers of Warsaw upraising – they have even their monument here in Warsaw.

Jewish weren’t the only people condemned by Germans for extinction. Jews, Poles, Gypsies, Czech, Russians, Belarussians were killed in Death Camps as well. And these camps were never run by Polish! The only reason why death camps were placed on Polish soil is that about 50% of Jewish population in Europe lived there. And as you know they didn’t leave Poland before the WWII while German Jews did.

Poland occupied by Germany was also the only country where helping Jewish people was prohibited under the threat of death. And once again you may be suprised of the fact that Poles saved more Jewish than any other European nation did – check the Yad Vashem Institute from Israel. As far as I remember Polish citizens were honoured more than 2500 times with the medal “Righteous among Nations”. But many heroes who helped Jewish famillies under the threat of being killed by Germans remain unknown.

You may heard a lot about so-called “Polish anti-semitism”, “Polish death camps” and Polish collaboration with Nazis. Consider it once again, becouse you might not heard everything that is worth to know. All we want is not to put on good front. We want only the truth – some disgraceful things like giving out Jewish to Germans also happened. But you should know that it wasn’t common among Polish people, and much more Poles fought agains Nazism and Communism, helped Jews and perished with them in death camps!

Adam on June 6, 2012 at 6:48 pm

“In a new context,” not “in a new content.”

skzion on May 30, 2012 at 11:47 pm

The German demands were essentially for Poland to become a satellite state of the Reich. That was too much for the Poles to bear and the Germans annexed it by force opening World War II.

When it came to dealing with Poland’s large Jewish minority, the German and Polish interests were identical.

The country became the killing fields of Jews from all over Europe. Polish complicity allowed the Germans to eliminate the Jews further and faster than would otherwise have been possible.

The Poles were not only Hitler’s victims, they were his willing fellow accomplices and executioners. No rewriting of history can conceal this truth.

NormanF on May 31, 2012 at 1:24 am

If Poland was so terribly anti-Jewish before the war (I don’t deny the right parties ant Church-pushed antisemitism) why the hundreds of jewish newspapers, many jewish deputiers to the Polish parlament (Sejm), Jewish players in Polish national teams ? Ones want to see only the golden (not true) legend in Polish-Jewish relations, others try to present before the war world without any comprehension of the history. What does mean “Poles were”. We have as well bad Poles and the good ones, anti and pro- Jewish. And some ignorant Debbie, using history for a personal/political purposes tries to write a new history. Debbie – Guantanamo is on Cuban land, do you call it “cuban concentration camp” ?

qrek on June 5, 2012 at 2:57 pm

Dear “worry01″!

You should defenitely worry about you total ignorance… unless you are willingly lying, just as this nazi blond bimbo, who calls herself a journalist…

Debbie!

Do Dallas – that’s the only good thing you could do, as our poor brain is damaged beyond repair…

1of1 on June 6, 2012 at 11:10 am

Norman, you are dealing with wounded national pride and anti-Semitism. It is a toxic mix. The French had to prop up a cocktail general like Charles de Gaulle and the French Resistance to cover up the shame of their surrender and defeat in 1940. The French government formally surrendered to Germany, and never gave a thought to forming a government in exile. Instead, these brave souls set up the Vichy Regime in what was left of France in the south. General Charles de Gaulle was a useful frontman for the Allies, did little else regarding France itself until the time of the D-Day Invasion in 1944. He was allowed to march into Paris with his Free French forces. The French Resistance is an even more noxious story when fully told. Its membership was composed almost entirely of Marxists, or their sympathizers. The Communist Party of France, under the orders of Joseph Stalin, actively assisted and collaborated with the invading Germans. In fact, the party organ, L’Humanité, advised the people of France to cooperate rather than resist. This position only changed when the Soviet Union was invaded by Germany in 1941. The French Resistance, which derived most of its leadership from the Communists, was not an independent or organic French growth, but a Stalinist Popular Front entity. Those are the less than wonderful things that France has tried to put a blanket over for decades now. Poles and Poland face an even worse problem with their history, which makes France look comparatively pure.

Worry01 on May 31, 2012 at 4:44 am

Tell it to my family – I mean that Polish were colaborating. Tell it thousand of Polish teenagers and young people who died while fighting German Nazi during Warsaw Uprising. Ask from Jews from ghetto taken guns to fight Nazi. And finally ask French peoole why so smoothly were telling Nazi where French Jews were sentencing them to death in death chambers in O?wi?cim when there was na death penalty for French people for helping Jews as it was in Poland. And finnaly read something more than tabloids.

Barbara on June 6, 2012 at 11:59 am

Some hard facts for you …

http://www1.yadvashem.org/yv/en/righteous/statistics.asp

I do belive those people know what they talk about … don’t you think.

Borys Abakarov on June 6, 2012 at 10:10 pm

Lexi wrote: “No one remembers the ‘good’ Poles because there were so few and far between.”
Oh really? What if I told you that more than 50% of those who saved Jews from Holocaust were Polish gentiles? At least that’s the amount of the trees growing in Yad Vashem and bearing the names of Polish gentiles. How about it? And all of them risking not only their own lifes, but lifes of their families and communities…

Janusz Andrzejewski on May 31, 2012 at 6:28 pm

Jews were complicit in Holocaust too – as concentration camp’s capos, jewish police helping Germans in ghettos, camps, etc., etc. Surprise!

Piotrek on June 6, 2012 at 1:01 pm

Janusz, because you seem to be interested in history, may I suggest that you rent the DVD “Shoah,” or borrow it from your local library if they carry it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoah_(film)

Although some gentile Poles came to the rescue of Jews in Poland, the grim fact remains that the majority of Poles had no objections whatsoever to their annihilation. Do you still dispute even that?

The reason you should see Shoah is that you can see interviews first-hand of Poles who were there at the time. When those Poles describe the fate of the Jews, you will see not see or hear signs of shame, regret, sadness, trauma, disgust, revulsion, nor anything like that. Rather, those Poles seem to take considerable pleasure in recounting the annihilation of the Jews in Poland. While not quite at the level of the Palestinians on hearing the news of the 9/11 attacks on the USA (much time has passed since WWI ended), the expressions of joy and satisfaction from the Poles being interviewed will be unmistakenly evident to any reasonably objective viewer.

Check it out, and then get back to me.

Ralph Adamo on June 1, 2012 at 7:59 pm

Ralph, you are dealing with someone with fixed notions in their head that are no longer susceptible to alteration.

“What if I told you that more than 50% of those who saved Jews from Holocaust were Polish gentiles?”

You are dealing with an unsupported claim that would be laughable in the context of what we have read, if the matter were not so serious. It is akin to the Muslim mentality regarding similar things. Shame cultures believe that it is preferable to lie than to admit fault. Confessing or acknowledging a sin is far worse a crime than concealing it. For example, Mohammed after the death of his first wife became a highway robber who preyed mostly upon Meccans whose caravans came within his range with a pretty nasty bunch of fellows. These were not bloodless holdups. However, if you pointed out to a Muslim that such activities were criminal then as they are now, you would get the most violent objections and actual threats. Calling Mohammed what he in fact was would be shameful. It would undermine Mohammed’s claims to be a prophet of Allah. Why would a holy god select a man to be his prophet, and at the same time encourage him to engage in theft, rape, and pillage? These acts of Mohammed had to be justified in some way, or at least obscured. That is what you are dealing with in another form when you encounter the more irrational Polish nationalists.

Worry01 on June 1, 2012 at 8:59 pm

to Ralth Adamo

Evidence you submitted, have been cleverly crafted. These are not authoritative, the more the film made ??to order. Germans and Russians were the aggressors, do not forget the basics. It was German Camp establish in Poland.

Piotr on June 5, 2012 at 8:01 am

These comments are not by me, the Ralph Adamo who lives in New Orleans. Please note, I have nothing to do with these comments.

ralphadamoneworleans on June 5, 2012 at 8:54 am

Ralph, I will ask son of the one of Jews that actually survived in Warsaw during Holocaust about what you said before (Shoah and everything). Polish neighbors hid his father through entire war. I think he will be amused by the fact that only some gentiles helped Jews. His father as I remember always said in one of moments like this (if i translate that correctly): “If only a quarter of allies would do a quarter of what Poles did for Jews – there would be no holocaust at all”.

voice on June 5, 2012 at 10:39 am

@ Ralph Adamo

Here you can find a lot of information about Shoah.

http://niniwa2.cba.pl/BIKONT.HTM

You can use google translate if you don’t believe me but there is a long list of stories that Mr. Lanzzman didn’t show in this movie. Stories that would change the image of this movie.

Here is a quote that should explain everything:
“French journal “L’Evenement” asked Lanzmanna, why you didn’t show the story how main characters survived, who helped them. The Director said: “I was not interested with that. “Szoah” is a movie about death. (…) “

Anotherone on June 5, 2012 at 2:57 pm

Worry, you indeed worry me with your concept of “fixed notions”… Perhaps you should consult the Yad Vashem records and enlighten me as to the percentage of Polish gentiles among the righteous ones (those who saved Jews from Holocaust) and I will stand corrected but until you do so, I stand by my figures, which are not first hand, I admit. But please, prove to me that percentage of Polish gentiles among righteous ones is so miniscule as you imply. I dare you! Give me the citations! I believe years ago the figure was even close to 60%, but it all fluctuated with additions of new names of the righteous ones. I am not familiar with Hebrew and am not sure whether those records are available in English, although I would imagine they must be. On another note, it perplexes me that Jews were always lauding so much Oscar Schindler, deservedly so though, for his noble efforts to save Jews from Holocaust, yet they totally neglected for years to mention a tiny Polish catholic woman by the name of Irena Sendler, who saved 2,500 Jewish children, by smuggling them out of Warsaw Ghetto with the help of “Zegota” (Codename for Polish Council to Aid Jews), organization operated under the auspices of Polish Government in Exile, the one which controled Polish Home Army (AK) and she herself was arrested by Gestapo, tortured and was ordered to be put in front of execution squad. Luckilly, “Zegota” bribed the guards and saved her from death. She became known only after Norman Conrad, a teacher from one of Kansas schools, inspired a school play about her and after she was nominated to Nobel Prize. Yet, despite the recognition, she was not embraced by the Jews the way Oscar Schindler was. Care to explain, why? Perhaps, because Poland was for centuries Jewish “der Haym”?
Worry, perhaps you might start to worry about your own “fixed notions”?
To Ralph Adamo, regarding “Shoah”. Soon after Claude Lanzman made it, it was shown on Polish TV and as from what I remember it was a huge event, with a lot of discussions conducted in then Polish communist media. I remember that Lanzman categorized people as Perpetrators (no Poles among them), Bystanders and Others. The Polish gentiles belonged to Bystanders and Others. Were there anti-semites among the Bystanders: Yes. Were they happy with Jewish fate: some of them, majority not, even though as one peasant in Shoah said in a typical peasant way: “Does it hurt me when somebody cuts your finger? No, it hurts only you.” Most of the Bystanders were Polish peasants with simple values, who heard through ages that Jews killed Christ. If I am correct, Vatican only in the 1960-ies rejected the notion of Jews as Christ-killers. So I do not blame the uneducated peasants for it, rather the Church interpretation of Christ’s teachings. “Shoah” shows a lot of anti-semitism among peasants, mostly, simple anti-semitism, not built on any sophisticated racial theories but on attitudes formed to some degree by Catholic Church, and enhanced in 19th century by the Russian, Austrian and Prussian partioners of Kingdom of Poland and Lithuania, who fomented all the conflicts they could in former Poland just to keep those stupid, independence hungry Poles out of battlefields. 14th, 15th and 16th centuries were golden for the Jews in Poland, they had special privileges granted to them by Polish kings (even if they could not owe land), that’s why half of Jewish population of Europe fled for Poland. 17th century broght invasions of Poland, including Chmielnicki’s Ukrainian revolt and pogroms of Jews, in additions to pogroms of Polish noblemen, who employed Jews at their latyfundia in Ukraine and Lithuania. In 18th century Poland became xenophobic, weak because of “liberum veto” and it ceased to exist.
Again, regarding “Shoah”, since I have seen the movie 26 or 27 years ago, I have to revisit it to observe the Bystanders more closely to study their attitudes.
On a final note, I used to read as a boy in Poland a lot of Isaac Bashevis Singer stories, and was always into Jewish arts, mostly literature. Always thought that Poles and Jews are brethren and that our relations should have been much better, for our cultures are so intertwined (literature, music, food, family values, etc.). However, after coming to US and after encountering, mostly from American Jews as opposed to other Jews, many acts of anti-polonism, in reverse to Polish anti-semitism, I started to question the roots of same. Perhaps, Worry, you should read more of real books as opposed to those which crystalized your own “fixed notions”. Anti-semtism in Poland, yes, it existed, Polish Complicity in Holocaust, not true (look up again my citations provided in the pieces submitted hereinabove).

Janusz Andrzejewski on June 1, 2012 at 11:27 pm

I don’t know that Are you so dumb from day you were born, or you just faking it?
Read the true historical facts. And listen to people who survived holocaust and then write such stupid sentence. You are so ignorant that it is funny and upseting simultanously.

eljochi on June 5, 2012 at 1:49 pm

Worry and Ralpf Adamo, I direct you to the piece written by Jim Przedzienkowski, added to the comments herein on June 2, 2012. What an extensive, scientifically supported effort to raise the level of the discussion. Enjoy it, and then you can respond in kind. Let’s see whether you can change your “fixed notions” of Polish complicity in Holocaust (not true) as opposed to many incidents of Polish anti-semitism built on attitudes flowing from wrong interpretations of Christ teachings rather than any racial theories (true). If you are looking for historical truth and constructive discussion, you will appreciate Mr. Przedzienkowski valiant effort. If you are interested in perpetuating the myths, do not bother to respond.

Janusz Andrzejewski on June 2, 2012 at 10:12 am

Mr Janusz Andrzejewski.
Someone has exchange my post that it looked like I was insulting you. I was but people who are attracted to this stupid article.

eljochi on June 5, 2012 at 2:44 pm

The various quotations that Jim Przedzienkowski cites are not new, and these have been collected and dispensed many times in the past by those who wish to apologize for the complicity of the Poles in the Holocaust.

And, as Przedzienkowski has done, he sprinkles among the quotations those from some Jews that purport to support the argument that the Poles were not complicit.

This is as though to say, “hey, if a Jew supports our argument that the Poles were innocent, it must be true.” But those tactics are absurd, because I could cite you Jews that actually claim that the Holocaust was as much a myth as Nazi-supporting Poles. (I assume that you are not in that camp, but, you never know.)

Again, nobody here is arguing that the Nazis were not the PRIMARY criminals. The argument is whether or not the Poles as a group were complicit in those terrible crimes. And the fact that some Jews, for political reasons, chose not to directly confront the Polish complicity in the Holocaust, and play down their role, avoid it, or even deny it, does not address the historical record.

But to get to the truth often takes small steps. So let’s take them one at a time.

Tellingly, Janusz, you do not answer my question so that you do not even disclose know where YOU truly stand. I told you that the “grim fact remains that the majority of Poles had no objections whatsoever to their annihilation.” I then asked–and this wasn’t rhetorical– “Do you still dispute even that?” But you remain silent.

Does the following encapsulate your position?–“Yes, the Poles hated the Jews, and they were happy to see them annihilated; just so long as some other group, like the Nazis, is blamed for most of the dirty work. The Poles bear no responsibility. We just went along with program and were innocent victims ousrselves.”

Or perhaps, you would feel more comfortable telling us whether you agree or disagree with the following quotation from a famous Polish writer:

“Our feelings toward the Jews haven’t changed. We still consider them the political, economic and ideological enemies of Poland.”– Zofia Kossak-Szczucka, 1942.

Do tell.

Ralph Adamo on June 2, 2012 at 5:21 pm

Ralph, had you been reading with an open mind what I have written so far, you would not have come up with your self-serving thesis, attempting to corner me without setting the context of Polish gentiles being the victims of Nazi Germany, paying heavy sacrifices in blood, destruction of whole cities and towns, and facing extermination along Polish Jews in the same concentration camps. Notwithstanding that Holocaust was unique to Jews. You do not want to see us as victims, as a nation which paid the heavviest toll out of any European nation during World War II. Rather, you want to see us as collaborators of Nazi Germany notwithstanding that historical sources say we were not. No Polish SS divisions, no Polish gentiles running the death camps, no inustrialized killing of Jews by the catholic Poles.
Let’s be explicit then. No, Ralph, not all the Poles hated the Jews, even though some of them clearly did, as there are some who do now (but now, its mostly their response to Jewish anti-polonism). It’s up for debate what was the percentage of the haters. Happy to see Jews annihilated? Only psychopaths could have been happy to see anybody annihilated, more so your neighbours, people with whom you have lived in small towns and villages. Were there psychopaths among the Poles? Yes, as in every nation. The Poles bear no responsibility as far as we talk about Polish complicity in Holocaust, using false premises of “Polish death camps” or “Polish collaborators”, for history clearly says there were none except for Volksdeatsches (Polish citizens of German origin). Do we bear responsibility for the Holocaust? Yes, as part of christian Europe, we do, for anti-semtitic attitudes must have made Holocaust possible. Hitler and the Nazis, by embracing and pursuing their racial theories did not act in vaccum. Despite Germany being such an educated and highly cultured nation, the nazi ideology seduced the masses. So how to be surprised by anti-semitic attitudes of Polish victims, many of them uneducated peasants, living in fear of their own death? POLAND WAS THE ONLY OCCUPIED BY GERMANY COUNTRY WHERE FOR HIDING A JEW PENALTY WAS DEATH. No other occupied by Germans country had such a penalty! Check the sources! Did we go along with the program? No. Again,go to historical sources, Polish gentiles are the nation with the highest amount of the righteous ones honored by Yad Vashem Institute. Were we innocent victims? No, not all of us. There were “szmalcownicy” (those who pointed the Jews to Germans for food, alcohol or other material gains) among the Polish gentiles as well as there were “szmalcownicy” among Polish Jews (those who betrayed or gave out the Poles to NKVD after Soviet Union back-stabbed us and invaded the eastern Poland on September 17, 1939) while we were fighting German invasion. What Zofia Kossak-Szczucka wrote is nowadays true only partially. Current anti-semitism in Poland concerns mainly skin-heads and other right wing elements of soccer hooligans, in addition to some fringe right-wing movements. People like those who rioted on soccer stadiums in England in 1980-s.
Personally, I always supported the state of Israel, which does not mean that I condone all of its actions and policies. But, my discourse with a Jew from Israel is always easier than with an American Jew who is less open, less educated and sees world through channel vision of labels and stereotypes.
I am disapointed with you Ralph, for I know that you have read the blog on The New York Times website (it appears you have took from there your “history lesson” regarding various anti-semitic meusures undertaken by National Democrats in Poland after death of Marshall Pilsudski in 1935). The discussion on New Yor Times blog (Caucus) contains a reat number of meritorious comments yet you chose to discard them all and have stuck to your “fixed notions” of Polish complicity in Holocaust. Let’s evolve, have an open mind and change our “fixed notions”.

Janusz Andrzejewski on June 3, 2012 at 1:51 am

None of these comments are by the Ralph Adamo who lives in New Orleans. I object to having my name hi-jacked by this opinionated _____________. (fill in the blank yourself)

ralphadamoneworleans on June 5, 2012 at 7:45 pm

Polish citizens have the world’s highest count[1] of individuals awarded medals of Righteous among the Nations, given by the State of Israel to non-Jews who saved Jews from extermination during the Holocaust. As of 2011[ref], there are 6,266[1] Polish men and women recognized as “Righteous” to this day, amounting to over 25 per cent of the total number of 22,765 honorary titles awarded already.[2][3]

I do not think anyine can deny the fact that there were a lot of anti semites amongst the Poles but this does not mean they regularly supported the extermination of Jews, indeed it was an exception rather than the rule. Even St Kolbe, who died by volunteering to get gassed instead of a Jew in Aushwitz, had had a very anti semitic newspaper before the war.

Martin on June 5, 2012 at 8:14 pm

“Our feelings toward the Jews haven’t changed. We still consider them the political, economic and ideological enemies of Poland.”– Zofia Kossak-Szczucka, 1942

And yet, Kossak-Szczucka was actively involved in saving Jews during the war:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zofia_Kossak-Szczucka

How that it fit your simplified view of polish antisemitism? She said this EXACTLY because she was separating her nationalistic, political views from simple humanitarian need to help.

Wojtek on June 6, 2012 at 7:08 pm

Sorry but you have no clue about the history.

After WW1 the piece of Polish territory (90% of Poles) was taken by Czech Army while Poland was figting against Red Army in the East. Czech Republic broke the Versaille Treaty.

In 1939 Poland just took this territory back.

2mek on June 5, 2012 at 1:44 pm

Another crap, lack of basic historical knowledge.

Hubert on June 6, 2012 at 9:56 am

Before writing anything it is usually a good thing to check your facts. Especially that in this case checking them would not take long and is very simple…
Since you give the full German name for the General Government, then you probably know what it means – General Government for the Occupied Polish Territories. Does “occupied” ring any bells? As in Poland was occupied by Germany, with some parts of it directly incorporated into the Third Reich (Nazi Germany), while other parts were treated as a separate region of the Third Reich – this was the General Government. It was not a Polish government, nor any form of a Polish state. There never was a Polish state or government collaborating with Hitler.
You write that this General Government would not function without a Polish speaking bureaucracy. You are probably right but perhaps you could show me an occupied country from any time in history where such a thing did not happen. Where the local population had no other option but to find a way to go on.
If you bothered to check your facts you would not say that “some Poles served honourably abroad”. Numbers varied throughout the war but around 200,000 Polish soldiers served under British command as part of the Allied Forces.
Dismissing the Polish Resistance as a mere propaganda tool for the Allies again speaks volumes about your compelete lack of kwowledge of the facts.

Andrew on June 6, 2012 at 10:34 am

I agree generally, but you’re wrong about Maximilian Kolbe.

He wasn’t gassed in exchange for a Jew in Auschwitz. He volunteered to die in a bunker (no food, no water) in exchange for a father to a children:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franciszek_Gajowniczek

Oilrig on June 6, 2012 at 4:38 am

Good response!

Leslie Warszawski on June 6, 2012 at 7:43 am

Since 1926 Poland was an authoritarian fscist regime, close ally to the III Reich, there is no question that there was a lot of ideological paralellism between two countries. Polish society was a product of that policy. No wonder that so many keen executors of nazi policy were easily found in the country. At the same time there was a waste number of people risking their lives to save Jews for no rightful reward at all. Coming to Polish camps better name would be Jewish death camps, as both Gypsies, Jews, Poles and soviet POW’s were exterminated there by their keen compatriots and Germans.

Cando on June 6, 2012 at 9:40 am

current US ‘democracy’ is much closer to authoritarian fascist regime than Poland ever was. But how would a brain-washed burger gobbler ever know that?!. whenever yanks open their mouths on affairs outside of the US is as pathetic and ridiculous as it gets

KC on June 6, 2012 at 10:20 am

CLOSE ALLY? You ppl do not comment things you don’t know nothing about, jeez, that lady fotgot that the whole 13 th department of the Gestapo were Jews, and also a lot Jewish ppl colaborated with the Nazis, so do we call the camp Jewish camps as well as polish? she says that all 6 milions of Jewish killed in Shoah were Polish Jews, and that is so ignorant thing to say…

Forget it, this post is so stupid, so untrue, I just can’t read it with no bad feelings for the author.

Shalom.

Zev Goldstein on June 6, 2012 at 10:24 am

Read first the bullshit Debbie is writing then check the names of Polish Communist Party leaders before 1939. There was a lot the decent Jews were shame about. Thus with help of Poland they created Army which later created Israel. more and more Debbieli are in the interent we more an more regret we helped this poor nation so much.

Krzysztof on June 6, 2012 at 1:29 pm

One cannot be THAT ignorant. It is a joke, you are a troll, right?

Stop-Ignorance! on June 6, 2012 at 3:32 pm

Since 1926 Poland was authoritarian – yes, but it’s ideology was far from Nazi Germany and under that regime there were other opposing political parties – so not so authoritarian regime. Almost nobody take care about German Nazi ideology of Aryan supremacy. Surprisingly it was National Democracy Party (polish party in opposition) which has elements of anti-semitism in program and in real activity (most anti-jews actions were undertaken by their activists before WWII) – something about 20% support. The progam of this nationalistic party was not to exterminate but to limit Jewish influence on economy, politic, culture, education in Poland. Well there was even idea to send Jews abroad and to create a country for them (on Madagascar).

Germany after WWI was hostile to Poland (inc. economy war) and when Hitler got the power he stoped hostilities for some time – but there was no alliance at all – it was normalization, for some time.

About 1935 Polish politicians started to recognize Germany as a great threat. At this time the ally of Poland was France (not Germany) which was not intresetd in any energetic activity to stop Germany (Frech gov. didn’t want to risk another war because of heavy casaulties at WWI). Unfortunately there was another great threat – on the east (Soviet Union).

Conditions under German occupation in Poland were extremely tough (agree for Jews were worse). Typically in such conditions people take care about themselves and their family and only part risk their lives to help others. As many noted that ‘fraction of brave’ was quite high in Poland. Do not expect that whole nation will storm occupant in suicide attack to protect other victims.

Luke on June 6, 2012 at 3:51 pm

Israel was created by orchestrated effort of soviet leadership and zionists from Eastern Europe – mostly Poles and Russians. Even today Polish and even more Russian languages are commonly spoken by Israel’s elite. Most of it’s citizens are of Khasar origin – tribe from Kaspian sea area.

Dare on June 6, 2012 at 3:09 pm

Amen!

Julia K. on January 12, 2013 at 10:29 pm

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