May 30, 2012, - 12:59 pm

Poles Were Complicit in Holocaust: Outrage Over Obama “Gaffe” is Fraudulent, Ignorant

By Debbie Schlussel

Barack Obama has done enough legitimately bad things that we don’t need to manufacture phony outrage over things he does that really aren’t so bad. Such is the case with the feigned shock and fake moralizing over his comments, yesterday, about German Nazi death camps in Poland being a Polish death camp. Here’s a tip for Poland and ignoramuses in the lumpenconservatariat who now engage in revisionist history: Poles murdered millions of Jews, they maintained several death camps, and they wiped out almost all of both sides of my family, as well as those in hundreds of thousands of other Jewish families. This wasn’t just the Nazis. It was tens of thousands of eager Poles and more. Obama made no gaffe here. Poland’s willing executioners took their significant place among Hitler’s willing executioners.


Poland’s Warsaw Ghetto Existed Because of Polish Complicity

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Two Things That Weren’t Exactly Mutually Exclusive

There is a reason why Poland was so easily occupied by the Germans. Yeah, I know–they were “just taking orders.” Just taking orders when they helped round up Jews and helped man gas chambers. As if Nazis from Germany did this alone! Polish police all too happily worked with the SS to round up Jews. Polish police all too easily took their place in helping run and operate the death camps. Facts are stubborn things. But, sadly, not as stubborn as morons and blind partisans.

I had to laugh when I read this:

Poland’s Prime Minister Donald Tusk said Wednesday Obama’s words had hurt all Poles and he expected more from Washington than just “regret”.

Are you kidding? Someone needs to remind Mr. Tusk that his people were the ones doing the hurting and the turning over to the Nazis and the mass murder of at least half of the six million Jews killed in the Holocaust, some of them from my family. You are “hurt” by calling Nazi death camps, “Polish”???? Um, where were they? Who helped operate them and round up and turn in the camps’ Jewish occupants, soon to be turned into ash and fumes?


There is a reason that President Obama, yesterday, awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom posthumously to Jan Karski, the former Polish underground officer who provided early eyewitness accounts of Nazi Germany’s genocide of European Jews. And that’s because Karski was unlike most of his fellow Poles, who hated Jews just as the Nazis did and proudly turned them over to the Nazis and/or participated in the mass murderous Judenrein. Even in the Polish underground, hatred of Jews was legion. My great-uncle was in the Polish underground, until they slit his throat while he was sleeping because, one day, the head of the Polish underground demanded a cleansing of its Jews, too.

My paternal grandmother had eleven brothers and sisters. Only one brother survived the Holocaust after the Poles murdered the rest along with her parents, after Poles seized their farm. (Grandma Marilyn was brought to the U.S. before the Holocaust began.) My maternal grandmother had only one surviving sister and brother, out of ten siblings. All the rest–and her parents–were murdered by the Poles. My maternal grandfather’s entire family was wiped out by the Poles. Grandpa Isaac’s father was mayor of the town and owned a hardware store. He hid in the haystacks of a Pole who owed him money and had bought tools on credit, but my grandfather escaped and was ultimately rounded up to the camps, after he heard the Pole tell neighbors he was going to trade my grandfather to the Nazis for a bottle of whisky.

My family and the millions of Jews wiped out in Poland never identified as Polish because the Poles never treated them that way. They were subject to centuries of pogroms and extreme anti-Semitism by the country in which they lived, before they were ultimately rounded up to the camps and mass-murdered with Polish cooperation. They were treated as subhuman all along the way, never as fellow “Polish.” So it’s beyond hilarious now to hear that the Poles are “hurt” by Obama’s description of a German Nazi death camp as “Polish.” As if there weren’t any Polish ones or as if the Poles had zero part in the Holocaust they all too eagerly participated in. Read the 93 pages of “Bystanders, Blackmailers, and Perpetrators: Polish Complicity During the Holocaust” for just a taste of what the Poles wrought on the Jews.

Yes, it is laughable that the Poles, Rush Limbaugh, self-hating Jew Matt Drudge, and a gazillion Republicans and incredibly obtuse and ignorant members of the lumpenconservatariat–most of them no different from the Obamabots in their lack of intelligence, knowledge, and common sense and decency–are incensed over this “gaffe” that really ain’t a gaffe at all. It’s intellectual dishonesty to insist that these death camps on Polish soil were not at all Polish and merely “German Nazi.” Here’s a list of the Polish ones–did they not exist? Did they exist in Poland only because the Germans did this and the Polish had no part? Only a liar or a moron would make these claims. The White House should have made no apology to Poland. These major death camps existed in Poland for a reason: Polish complicity in the Holocaust and willing cooperation with the Nazis.

* Auschwitz

* Belzec

* Chelmno

* Gross-Rosen

* Majdanek

* Plaszow

* Sobibor

* Stutthof

* Treblinka

Keep these names in your mind when you read this quote:

Poland’s government keenly watches the global media for descriptions of former Nazi German death camps as “Polish” because it says the term — even if used simply as a geographical indicator — can give the impression that Poland bore responsibility for Nazi Germany’s World War II genocide.

Although located in Poland, Auschwitz for example was set up and run entirely by German dictator Adolf Hitler’s occupying forces from 1940 to 1945.

Huh? The Poles were not just forced into this by the Nazis. They were active participants, many of them gleeful and eager to murder Jews. To call these camps Polish is no “gaffe.” Poland DOES bear responsibility for the Nazi genocide of Jews.

It’s just fact. And it’s denial and fraud for Poland and others to argue otherwise.

Yes, there were a few righteous gentile Poles who saved Jews. A very tiny few. The majority were all too happy for the Judenrein, especially in the way it took place.

That was the real Poland during World War II. Anyone who says otherwise is a fraud.

And if you wonder why so many Jews are liberal and won’t vote Republican, BS, like the absurd denial that Nazi Death Camps were Polish, certainly doesn’t help in endearing Jews to the GOP.




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2,053 Responses

When one watches Claude Lanzmann’s “Shoah” – the important thing to keep in mind is the Germans could not have murdered the Jews alone.

They are certainly the perpetrators. But without the help of millions of Poles and other Europeans, the Holocaust would not have been possible. In exterminating the Jews, the Nazis had a lot of eager help.

Any one who pretends otherwise denies the truth, is a hypocrite and a fraud. Obama does many bad things – acknowledging reality here isn’t one of them and he should never have apologized to Poland. It was part of the “Final Solution” right to the very end.

NormanF on May 30, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    I think I will exercise my Freedom of Speech today.

    “You are “hurt” by calling Nazi death camps, “Polish”???? Um, where were they? Who helped operate them and round up and turn in the camps’ Jewish occupants, soon to be turned into ash and fumes?”

    You fucking POLLACKS are guilty of murdering Jews. Blame in on Hitler? Why? You joyfully engaged in such mass murders. Rot in hell, POLLACKS!

    As Goes... on May 30, 2012 at 2:19 pm

      My ( Yankee) hubby’s great uncle was a Polish POW in Aushwicz for almost 4 years then taken to a slave labor camp in Germany where he worked with dangerous explosive componates. His health was affected and he suffered all his life. His older brother was a physician who had been murdered by the Soviets at Kathyn forest. Nobody ever found out what happened to his wife and 3 children..to this very day.

      His other 2 brothers lived in the USA and after being liberated by the American Army the POW, was brought to America by his brothers.He was a locksmith in the USA until he passed away. He never married.

      All this man’s other close relatives in his home village died in GERMAN death camps… they were his parents, his two younger sisters, their husbands and their small children. Even two very elderly aunts were murdered by nazis.

      At least 3 million non-Jewish Poles died in Nazi camps. And thousands died at the hands of the Soviets, especially the devout Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox in the Katyn Forest massacres.

      What were the crimes that my husband’s relatives according to the German records? Records that we have been able to obtain say things like anti-social behavior and aiding the enemy. WHAT enemy? Jews, Romas, underground anti-nazis.

      I know some Poles were EVIL collaborators, but my dear Debbie these people in my husband’s died for something other than being Jewish. We think the whole small village disappeared.

      You will find us to be great friends of Israel. We love you too. That being said, please do not lump all POLES into the same noxious brew.

      Oh! That dear man, surviving Great Uncle traveled to Israel twice and even considered getting permission to live there, but his health was so bad he died before he could attempt to retire there. Far from hating Jews, I believe he felt he was also a man who wanted NOBODY TO EVER FORGET WHAT HAPPENED IN POLAND!
      He made sure all his great-great grand nephews and nieces KNEW the evils of nazis. ALL of us are VERY PRO-ISRAEL. When my hubby was in the navy long ago, on one of his cruises he visited Israel while the other friends took off for Cyprus!

      AP: Facts are stubborn things. The majority of the Polish were AND STILL ARE anti-Semitic. They engaged in centuries of anti-Jewish, murderous pogroms and helped round up the Jews to the camps. They also helped operate the camps. The “Noxious Brew” was the majority of the Poles. That there were a tiny few good people is meaningless. Your husband’s great-uncle (hilarious you must reach that far and cite some modern day cruise in a pathetic attempt to refute actual history) is one person who is not representative of the vast majority of Poles who were Jew-haters and complicit with Hitler and the Nazis, gleefully and enthusiastically so. As one commenter wrote above, it’s as absurd as saying, “don’t lump us with the anti-Semitic Muslims,” because there are a scant few good Muslims. There were several large, happy Polish divisions of the SS for a reason. And it wasn’t because they were “just taking orders” or “loved the Jews.” DS

      Alabama Pride on May 30, 2012 at 2:56 pm

        Debbie, You missed the point of the cruise. My husband wanted to see Israel because of things he was taught by the Uncle he was named for.

        This was an important visit for him. He loved the place and brought home little baby clothes handknitted in Israal for our fist baby. They are in the cedar chest now. Treasured things.

        It is horrid that a majority of people in Poland were hate filled bigots. That being said, you understand there were good people who cared enought to remember what happened and never wanted it to ever be forgotten. And that man taught his family JUST THAT.

        We will keep shopping for online Jewelry from Israel, donating to Israeli causes and REVEL in being called a “dirty Jew” by an Iraqi refugee woman employee with the headscarf in a local grocery store( WINN-DIXIE)because I asked her to move over so I could get by and she looked down and saw the 24 packs of Kadeem Tea biscuits from Israel in my cart… ( my grandkids kids were having a picnic with 12 friends and they love them)… the woman called me that “name” and when I reported her…I was called a liar and told to leave. Let’s see, that was 13 months ago and I have NEVER spent a dime in any of their stores since.

        I know, hard to believe but SOME of US will put our money where our hearts are. Me and the hubby are two of them.

        AP: Nope. YOU missed the point. The cruise is irrelevant. Your anecdote about your husband’s great-uncle is irrelevant. The fact remains: Poles were mostly Jew-haters and complicit in the Holocaust. Period. The Israel stuff is irrelevant. Israel wasn’t even around then. But centuries of pogroms and many death camps on Polish soil, operated by Poles, were. There is a reason most Polish Jews–the few who survived at the hands of their Nazi-complicit countrymen–chose to stay in Poland. And it wasn’t because the Poles were their best friends, and only the Nazis perpetrated the Holocaust. Please wake up. DS

        Alabama Pride on May 30, 2012 at 3:40 pm

          Hey Alambama Pride,

          You’re lucky DS is handling you because I am controlling my urge to practice me some free speech on YOU.

          As Goes... on May 30, 2012 at 5:17 pm

          WHERE did I say that the vast majority of Poles were NOT antisemitic and where did I say that they did not help the NAZIS?

          This old Scot feels really sad that a friend like me is being accused of not getting it when it comes to POLES being anti-semitic.

          I was expressing what happened to a man who lost most of his own family to nazis and suffered till his dying day what nazis did to him. ?

          DOES my husband’s desire to visit Israelin 1966, as a young naval officer INSULT you so much that you insult me?? WHY are you mad at us… WE ARE ON YOUR SIDE. CHEESE AND CRACKERS, Debbie are you trying to push away this gentile who likes you and appreciates your blog?
          Frankly I am hurt by your comments and will now leave for awhile. Stay safe and remember I am still a fan.

          Alabama Pride on May 30, 2012 at 10:06 pm

        Debbie, I don’t disagree that many Poles were antisemitic and behaved less than honorably and even murderously during the Second World War. My issue with the President’s remarks is that this ceremony was for Jan Karski, and nothing should have been said by President Zero to create discord or to take the focus away from Karski. If anyone out there has not read Karski’s first person account, “Story of a Secret State”, I highly recommend this book. There is an audiobook version available at Audible.com that has a fantastic narrator. Karski was arrested and tortured by the Gestapo, and he experienced the horror of having many of his friends arrested, tortured and murdered by the Nazis. Karski risked his life countless times to oppose the Nazis. He traveled to the West to urge the Allies to take action to halt the Holocaust, and “Story of a Secret State” was published in the U.S. in 1944 so that anyone who wanted to know the truth could do so. He married a Jewish Holocaust survivor after the war, and his efforts to save Jews, and his forceful advocacy for Jews, is morally unassailable. In fact, I would assert that Karski’s heroism and advocacy for Jews was far superior to that of most of the Jewish leadership in the U.S. at the time, who believed that it was more important to support FDR and to stay quiet for political reasons, than it was to advocate for forceful action to halt the Holocaust.

        Jase on May 30, 2012 at 7:25 pm

        If vast majority Poles hated Jews- why so many Jews (in absolute and per capita terms) lived in Poland between the Great Wars and before???Were they forced by anybody??? You argument fails when confronted with simple logic.

        timo on June 5, 2012 at 7:33 pm

        polish ss divisions??? woman, you are sick, stop spreading those lies!

        ianus on June 6, 2012 at 1:27 am

        Who told you there was Polish SS division? Are you nuts? Maybe you mean Ukrainian division, which was on Nazi side. But Polish. Wow, I’ve never heard such a bullshit.

        Kristof on June 6, 2012 at 10:51 am

        It seems that you have no idea about the topic on which you are writing. Instead of posting such rubbish you may want to ask yourself how come such a large minority of Jews happened to live in Poland. Where did they come from? How come they thrived in Poland for centuries?
        Instead of repeating slanders you might have taken some time to check the facts. For centuries Poland was regarded by Jews as one of the most open and friendly countries in Europe, with Jews fleeing from persecution in Western Europe and settling in Poland. Things started changing after Poland lost its independence at the end of XVIII century and notably so in the part occupied by Russia.
        Poland only regained its independence following the 1st World War and lost it again after Germany and Soviet Union invaded Poland in 1939 at the beginning of the 2nd World War.
        It is true that in the 1930s anti-semitism in Poland was becoming prominent but the same was true of the whole of Europe and also countries in other parts of the world, including the U.S.
        Still, there was a world of difference between the pre-war anti-semitism in Poland and elsewhere and the ideology promoted by Hitler’s Germany which led to the Holocaust.
        Were there Poles who participated willingly or unwillingly in the Holocaust? No doubt there were such people. But does this mean that Poland and Polish people can be considered as those responsible for planning or carrying out the extermination of the Jewish people? Definitely not!
        You may just as well say that since there was a Jewish police in the ghettos and Jewish kapos (overseers) in the concentration camps this means that Jews collaborated or were responsible for the Holocaust. Anybody in their right mind would say that this is absurd.
        And so is your post…
        And just to be clear – since you seem to know so little about this period in history – both the ghettos and the concentration camps were set up, organized and operated by Hitler’s Germany.

        Andrew on June 6, 2012 at 11:07 am

        Hmm, after reading you and Debbi I now know that I am antisemitic. That my friends are. That most Poles are.
        I congratulate you on your knowledge if Poles and Poland and assure you that majority of us, who were not antisemites can easily became after reading your “garbage”.

        ella on June 6, 2012 at 2:44 pm

        They engaged in centuries of anti-Jewish, murderous pogroms
        – to show you how stupid you are please list here all these pogroms and tell me how many Jews were killed. Can you, you stupid puppet

        Michal Goralczyk on June 6, 2012 at 5:22 pm

      Archie Bunker was right about pollocks. In fact, I stay away from all eastern Europeans….

      As Goes... on May 30, 2012 at 4:58 pm

        As Goes, all so called eastern Europeans, and not only, must be staying away from you, Archie Bunker clone. And for the sake of your limited (history and geography) education information, the Poles are not eastern Europeans for geography places them in Central Europe. They were called eastern Europeans, in political terms, during the times of subjugation by Soviet Union. Do not touch the keyboard before checking out your facts, bigot…

        Janusz Andrzejewski on May 31, 2012 at 6:58 pm

        It is not new to anybody in the world that Americans are ignorant as hell. You people know nothing about the world you live in. Absolutely nothing. And what you don`t know, you make up. I don`t think any of you understands the horrors that took place during WWII on polish soil. Those Jews dying in German camps were also Poles after all, they were polish citizens living here for ages. And why did they live here? Because they had an ASYLUM in Poland. They lead a good life here. Of course there was local anti-semitism now and then but one must be insane to say that Poles as a whole nation were helping Germans in organizing Holocaust. Life is not black and white. There were Poles and Jews collaborating with Germans but they were the minority. When there are no laws and you find yourself in hell, you fight for survival and hope for a better tomorrow. I don`t blame the ones who did just that making the wrong choices in fear and terror. Most of people would rather die then collaborate. And many millions died.

        ps people didn`t die just in concentration camps, entire villages were burned down to the ground and all inhabitants killed for helping/hiding a Jew or a guerilla. Entire families slaughtered for the same reasons. People shot on the streets. Fear, terror and horror.

        Not all memories from these times are dead. There are some people who can actually tell you how it was. There are fewer of them every year but some are still alive. And they`ve been there, they`ve seen things that you can`t even imagine and your puny mind is unable to grasp. So stop spreading lies. At least wait until all of those people who witnessed those horrors die. Than you can lie all you want because there will be none to oppose. But not know.

        Phill on June 5, 2012 at 8:10 am

        Good for all Europe! I propose: stay at home for the rest of your life.

        fine on June 5, 2012 at 8:25 pm

      3 million Poles died in Nazi concentration camps
      300,000 documented cases where Poles hide Jews family during the war. Most were found out and executed along with Jewish family.
      3000 Poles denounced Jews, around 50% was executed for it by Polish residence, Zegota.

      Now, how would you like to challenge these facts. They are all well documented.

      Kristof on June 6, 2012 at 10:42 am

      U talk about going to hell…better think about going to school!

      Alex on June 6, 2012 at 12:04 pm

      I hope you have some arguments, because now, everything what you doing it’s proof for your stupidity, my sweet haters.

      proud&patriot on June 6, 2012 at 12:54 pm

      You better excercise your right to medical (psychiatric) treatment, jerk.

      Andy Pieniazek on June 6, 2012 at 2:08 pm

      Internet shows us how many idiots lives around

      Michal Goralczyk on June 6, 2012 at 5:26 pm

    The Poles, the Uks, the Croats, the Lituanians… but not the Italians. There were no camps in Italy.

    lexi on May 30, 2012 at 7:48 pm

      That’s because they were shipped off to NAZI death camps in Poland to be exterminated, dipshit. The NAZIS needed someone else to blame for their work, just in case they failed. Judging from the comments on this site it worked! All hail the great propoganda machine!

      theShadow on May 30, 2012 at 9:43 pm

      Because Italy was a german aliant! – they fight together against other contries. That is one of the reasons why germans didn’t build the death camps on the italian land.

      teacher on June 5, 2012 at 7:41 pm

    Miss Schlussel, Norman F and all others in the same vein. This one is for you:

    Yes, as soon as Hitler came up with the final solution, he e-mailed the news to all Polish anti-semites (the whole gentile population of Poland) asking them for help. They all replied at once, blocking the broadbands for quite a while, along the lines: dear Adolf, do not doubt us the Poles, just have it started. Invade Poland at once, we have nothing better in our life to do, so count us in. You know, our country was partitioned in 18th century and did not exist for 123 years, so now we look only for revenge. Total carnage. After initial attack by battleship Bismarck on Gdansk, send then those junkers and stukas planes and bomb all the cities, towns and villages. What? The Polish gentiles would die, too? The Polish gentile children? Do not worry, we Poles will die gladly for the sake of our anti-semitism. Then, send the tanks in, preferrably the tigers, and finish off whoever survived. What? That the Poles would die again? We told you, do not worry, we are ready to sacrifice gentile lifes for the sake of your goals. We will send cavalry against your tanks. What you are saying Adolf? It would be unfair? Again, you are so neurotic, we only enjoyed 20 years of independence and didn’t build yet enough tanks, the horses must do for now. And besides, the Rotschilds refused to finance rebuilding of free Poland. Haven’t you heard that they were against recognizing rebirth of Poland at Versaille Conference? You did. Well, you are not so hopeless…Also, why you are at it, why don’t you advise Stalin through Mr. Ribbentrop and Molotov to attack Poland from the east, we Polish gentiles will have more fun that way. But make that pact secret. By the way, tell Stalin not to forget to use Jews in the Soviet security apparatus to round up Polish aristocrats, doctors, lawyers, professors, generals, engineers and millions of healthy Polish gentiles in the east and have those Poles sent by trains to Siberia.What, no first class. The trains with pigs and cows will do for us Poles. Let them die there. Use only Jews to round up the Polish gentiles, to provoke them later on into anti-semitic reprisals. They will riot in Jedwabne and Kielce without inhibitions. Also, with the cream of Polish gentiles, tell Stalin not to bother with sending them to Siberia. There are nice forests near Smolensk, near place called Katyn… How about shooting in the back of the head at least 20,000 of our professors, lawyers, doctors, engineers and generals. That would rile all the Poles for centuries (tell Stalin that later on the Russians will have a chance to down a Polish plane there, again with the cream of the nation. Give Stalin guarantees, the West will never believe it for by then they will be preoccupied only with Holocaust. The German, the Swiss, the French, they all will be so full in guilt that they would not listen about Polish gentiles being victims of genocide. The Jews will make sure themselves nobody in the world will talk about Polish catholic victims. Who would care about Polish victims? Have no doubts, Adolf, we guarantee that Polish gentiles will be no more than bystanding witnesses, if not willing helpers. You think we will resist German occupation, will have the biggest resistance movement in occupied Europe. Common Adolf, you know it better. It just for the sake of keeping appearances. You complain that Poles will go to the west and will fight Germany from Narvik, Norway to Tobruk and Kairo in Africa? That they will be the most effective pilots aiding English in the Battle for Britain (Division 302, 303, etc.), that they will liberate Italian, French or Dutch cities in the west and some will aid soviets in the march on Berlin? Adolf, there are some stupid pollacks, don’t you know? So, how to make us Poles complicit in your final solution? Well, why don’t you scare the Polish gentiles by decreeing that each of us who will hide or help a Jew would be shot on the spot, without court proceedings. That what? That it is unfair to the Poles? That we will live in fear of death? Do not preoccupy yourself with us. We wil take it. We reckon the Polish gentiles will represent more than 50% of the righteuos, honored in Yad Vashem, anyway. We lived in fear all the time. In thousand years of our history we met death constantly. First your brethren invading us from the west, then the Tartars and Turks from the east. Incidentally, you know, we owe gratitude to Tartars, for after they fully destroyed Krakow in 1241 we rebuilt it as one of the most beautiful cities in the world. So, thank you Tartars. Then the Swedes from the North, then the Russians from the east, the Austrians from the south and Prussians from the west and north. Do not worry about our fear we will take it for the sake of your goals Adolf. What? That Polish gentiles would not follow you as you have placed them at the bottom of your racial totem pole? Just above Jews and Gypsies? Do not fear about us, we will follow, we will be complicit anyway. You are worried that we Polish gentiles will find out about your final plans for us, after you are done with the Jews? Ridiculous, we know about it, Adolf, but we still love you. But you have to understand, that we pollacks are not grateful and some will fight you. Be assured though, we will gladly die after the Jews and Gypsies. After all, we are stupid pollacks? After us, you can take care of homosexuals, you know there is a lot of them in your own society, even in Gestapo. Then, you can take care of all the colored people, including the japs, after you done with Europe and USA, you can turn on them. Do not thank us Adolf, for the ideas. We are just being complicit. Why? Don’t you know, we will take over all the riches after you are done with the Jews? What, you will take it yourself? We will help anyway. You want to erase Warsaw from the face of the world? Well, it will create a problem, we will have to rise up against you Adolf, but it just for the sake of keeping appearances. But do not be neurotic again, we will rebuild it. Perhaps, it won’t be as beautiful as Krakow for this time the Soviets will help us with reconstruction. But we will end up with that “beautiful” Palace of Science and Culture, a gift from uncle Stalin. You plan to arrest all gentile professors at Jagiellonian University in Krakow? And take them to death camps? Well, if you must, but perhaps you can finally admit that Copernicus was Polish? A little concession, Adolf? No? Well, we just had to ask… Perhaps, you can leave couple of professors from Jagiellonian Iniversity? No? About killing Polish gentiles? How many we would have to sacrifice? Three million Polish gentiles for three million of Polish Jews? If you must, butit is kind of unfair Adolf, don’t you think. It’s almost the whole Jewish population in Poland. You call me a Jew helper, Adolf? I just worry how can the Poles (meaning anti-semites) live without Jews, how can our anti-semitism thrive without them? You have ideas?

    Janusz Andrzejewski on May 31, 2012 at 8:33 pm

    NormanF: many Poles were killed by undeground army for collaboration with Germans, also for turn over Jews to Germans.

    And you are saying, that Poles are responsible for Jews’s massacre?

    Yes, of course just as Americans are responsible for 9/11.

    Krzysztof Jankowski on June 5, 2012 at 8:14 am

    Ludzi takich jak ty powinno si? wsadza? do wi?zienia. S? niebezpieczni.

    Pablo on June 5, 2012 at 9:46 am

    yes – nazis got help mainly from american IBM, before the war. learn the truth, for it will set you free.

    ianus on June 6, 2012 at 1:23 am

    Sir, don’t forget the help of Jews themselves. There is a wonderful movie that I saw in Amsterdam that speaks of hundreds of thousands of people with guns to their head being told that they are being organized to work in labor camps. (The movie is about a German Jewish man who moved to Amsterdam and had to put 400 Jews a day on a train. It detailed how he saved 2 or 3 thousand human beings but in his role still had to send tens of thousands on the train. That’s what makes Jan Karski’s contribution so phenomenal he assisted in bringing assistance to not only Polish Jews but European Jews as well with the Allied effort.

    Otto on June 6, 2012 at 12:27 pm

    @NormanF

    “They are certainly the perpetrators. But without the help of millions of Poles and other Europeans, the Holocaust would not have been possible. In exterminating the Jews, the Nazis had a lot of eager help.”

    It was possible without the help of millions of Poles and Europeans. There was not ‘a lot’ of eager help. All extermination was done under the threat of the gun, in a war torn country, where terror reigned. Either there is something wrong with your imagination, knowledge and capacity to comprehend the facts or you are deliberately spreading vicious lies. I hope it is not the latter.
    Best regards,
    Adam

    Adam Kosterski on June 6, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    I understand. Of course you know that many Poles also died in concentration camps. Therefore I understand that you also want to say that Poles helped Germans with concentration camps. Probably because they hated their own compatriots. Now, following your own logic, if Poles could help Germans to kill their own people then why Jews could not help Germans in killing their own people? Or are you telling me that Poles could do it and Jews could not?

    ella on June 6, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    norman dont forget about american jews.u seem to be knowledgeable guy. for sure u know about american support for nazis. without them holocaust would never be possible either. but we all know what money means for jew…

    marcin on June 6, 2012 at 3:47 pm

    So you base your opinion on 1 stupid movie! Go to Poland, visit Auschwitz concentration camp, talk to survivors, learn both sides, read different books and than form your opinions. I know Poland is accused of anti-Semitism, but this is not true. This is bullshit.

    Michal Goralczyk on June 6, 2012 at 5:19 pm

Debby, you are the Truth Teller. As much as I despise Obama for hundreds of reasons you are right that Poles helped run the death camps and they were Polish Death Camps.

bobby99 on May 30, 2012 at 1:29 pm

    Anybody who feels of Polish ancentry in the USA:
    NO VOTE FOR OBAMA.
    let him thanks to supporters like Debbie.
    I hope Polonia Congress will react soon.

    Wojciech Miara on June 5, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    unfortunately you was not there.
    The main question is WHAT AMERICAN’S JEWS HAD DONE TO STOP HOLOCAUST ,WHAT WAS RESPONSE FOR JAN KARSKI(ONE WHO RECEIVED POST MORTAL ORDER FROM BARACK OBAMA) SHOUT FOR HELP , WHAT? WHAT? WHAT WHAT? WHAT? NOTHING YES, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

    rafal on June 5, 2012 at 7:23 pm

    Bobby99, go back to school. German death camps were guarded (and running) by german soldiers. Polish people were there as the prisons – the same as jewish, gypsy, russian…

    Truth on June 5, 2012 at 8:10 pm

The Poles were co-participants at best – at worst they were accomplices.

They weren’t innocent! The millions of dead Jews who are ashes on the territory of their country is proof of it.

Its understandable they don’t want to face up to their own history. The rest of us should not pretend the Holocaust took place in some “nulla terra.”

It took place in Poland! And Jews should remember the Europeans who either helped the Germans kill the Jews or were passive by-standers, remain the same to this day and Poland’s reaction is an illustration of why Jews don’t believe Europe has ever had a true reckoning with its sordid anti-Jewish past.

NormanF on May 30, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    You asshole most of the people who died in concentration camp were polish poeple. You disgusting liar.
    You know nothing about history dumb McDonald eater. You should change your diet beacuse by fastfood and Coca-cola fat is taking most of your head instead of your brain.

    eljochi on June 5, 2012 at 2:31 pm

The thing that struck me about the Polish reaction to Obama’s comments: It is very similar to the faux outrage and indignation and victim status that Muslims exhibit when they don’t like the truth about their religion coming out.

Norman F: “And Jews should remember the Europeans who either helped the Germans kill the Jews or were passive by-standers, remain the same to this day and Poland’s reaction is an illustration of why Jews don’t believe Europe has ever had a true reckoning with its sordid anti-Jewish past.”

The proof they haven’t is the fact that they continue to let in so many Muslims and refuse to deport them, who they know want another genocide of Jews. Anyone who doesn’t have a problem with modern Nazi, Muslim immigration is a modern Nazi sympathizer.

JM on May 30, 2012 at 1:45 pm

DS thanks for this piece maam, anti-semitism wasn’t just limited to Hitler and his Nazi regime, nor it wasn’t limited to the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem (Yasser Arafat’s late uncle), but as you clearly explained in this article, there was virtulent anti-semitism in Poland during the holocaust and WWII era.

And yes, there were death camps in Poland, not just Germany, and I saw this story on Yahoo News earlier on today, and I said to myself, “I wanna know if Debbie Schlussel is going to write an article about this, because she’s Polish-American and of the jewish faith”, little did I know that Debbie did write an article on this story and did an excellent job on it. As Bobby said minutes ago, Debbie, you are indeed a “truth-teller”, and I completely appreciate it!

“A nation is defined by its borders, language & culture!”

Sean R. on May 30, 2012 at 1:50 pm

My dad ( may his soul rest in peace) , told me the polish people were worse than the Germans .He he was a Holocaust Surviver , who lost his first wife and two sons in Auschwitz.And just survived because they needed him to work for them .

Ruthi on May 30, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    Ruthi,

    I believe your father!

    Those stinking Pollacks were, and are, anti semitic. Rot in hell, Pollacks.

    As Goes... on May 30, 2012 at 4:54 pm

      Rot in McDonalds and boil in Coca-Cola anty-polish fat Americans.

      eljochi on June 5, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    Working for who? For German Nazis or for Polish people? Did your father was in Nazi camp or Polish camp?
    I thought that Hitler invade Poland and created there concentration camps but from American point of view Polish people attacked themselves to create concentration camps and kill there ohter Polish people and Jews? lol 😀 Americans are dumb.

    eljochi on June 5, 2012 at 2:36 pm

I remembered when I watched the documentary when I was in my late 20s, two things stayed with me: one was the beautiful countryside. And the other was that Claude Lanzmann reserved his harshest scorn for the Poles. There were certainly a handful of Poles who saved Jews here and there. But they were a small minority. In their country, it couldn’t have happened had they resisted it. Since they didn’t resist it, the rest was history. We can’t go back and change the past. What we must do today is be on guard against the falsification of history to whitewash the dirty deeds of the accomplices and willing collaborators who in Poland and most of Europe, where in the vast majority. More than being a German Nazi project, the Holocaust was above all a European one, the fin de siecle of European civilization.

NormanF on May 30, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    Norman,

    I think you’re brilliant. You said the same thing I said, “it couldn’t have happened had they resisted it.”

    LOL

    As Goes... on May 30, 2012 at 5:27 pm

    Poland resisted – in 1939 for about month. Later the full power was in German hand.

    Please explain how the Poles should resist.

    Luke on June 6, 2012 at 4:04 pm

Debbie,
I usually agree with you and agree with the facts that the poles are and were antisemitic participants. The Nazis were responsible and should be held liable for this, not the abetters for them. Thats like saying the gun killed a person not the murderer or with this rationalization we could hold FDR as responsible for these atrocities. Interesting that a few days ago we just honered a Polish Gentile into the Righteous among the nation that didnt save one soul but was given the honour for putting himself in danger by going into the Ghetto and coming all the way to Washington and speaking to President FDR about what was going on in poland to your family like to all our families. We can also blame him for the deaths of all but a handful of jews on the SS St louis. You say “And if you wonder why so many Jews are liberal and won’t vote Republican, BS, like the absurd denial that Nazi Death Camps were Polish, certainly doesn’t help in endearing Jews to the GOP”. I have a better thought its a wonder that so many Jews turn a blind eye and vote Democrat with all the proofs of the hatred to them.

YosefV on May 30, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    Hey JosefV

    Who said “The Nazis were responsible and should be held liable for this, not the abetters for them.”

    Are you NUTS? What is wrong with you? They did it willingly. If they had resisted, it couldn’t have happened. You, sir, are an idiot.

    As Goes... on May 30, 2012 at 5:07 pm

      As Goes – same we can tell about Jews in America, who did nothing to help Jewish people in Europe. It is not that they didn’t know… They just didn’t want to take a part. Same goes with rest of the European countries. Allies of Poland knew about EXTERMINATION since ’41 at least, and they calmly waited… Why? Cause Jews weren’t their business.

      Read a little bit about Alyiah Bet (it really doesn’t hurt). What Brits, Soviets and HAGANA did to European Jews who escaped from the war terror.

      karo on May 30, 2012 at 5:19 pm

        Karo

        You continue to be a punk fool making up facts or creating fictions to bolster your positions.

        Blow it out your whatever.

        As Goes... on May 30, 2012 at 5:37 pm

      You sir are the idiot since you take what I posted out of context. I will go very slowly for you since you are an idiot.
      As I mentioned the poles were and are anti semites but lets not change and call them Polish Camps when they were German Nazi death camps. Everyone should be held resp[onsible for their complicity in the massacre, the whole world is to blame including FDR. The Nazis perpetrated their mass killings in Poland for many reasons, the first being that the highest concentration of Jews in all Europe was Poland. Second that the Poles were very anti semitic in nature and wouldnt protest.
      Thirdly that if you would read history the Germans were founded in efficiency and they believed that it would be better to ship all the Jews to one centrally located country and liquidate them and after they could liquidate the Poles there too. after they were done with the undesirables. If we start calling it the Polish Death Camps we deminish the brutality of what the Nazi regime did. After calling it the Polish Death camps lets call it the American death camps since they didnt stop them, or the French Death camps since they helped put the Jews on the trains, as did every nation in Europe.
      I will restate my position for you Lets call it what they are German(Nazi)Death Camps.

      YosefV on May 30, 2012 at 6:03 pm

      You McDonald f@#$er. We were the only country who resisted to German invasion but we were outnumbered and lost. We were occupied over 5 years you idiot.
      What would you do? You would have stick your fat American ass and save all Europe. Yeah I see it clearly now.
      Now I understand why Americans are most hated nation in the world. You are so dumb that this is uncountable and still you think you are the most clever and know everything.
      I feel a little sorry for you. You are so stupid that this is immesurable.

      eljochi on June 5, 2012 at 2:54 pm

Yes, this is all true. But the point is that this is the same president that claimed his uncle helped liberated Auschwitz. These “mistakes” clearly show he is an historical illiterate at worst, and a lazy-assed SOB at best.

FK: HUH? Clearly, you didn’t get the point or the facts. No, the point is that Obama was 100% historically accurate and the faux-outrage over this is BS and revisionism. There was no “mistake” here. The lazy-assed SOB here is anyone who claims this shows anything about Obama or that he is “an [sic] historical illiterate.” Facts are stubborn things. And those camps were POLISH Death Camps. Period. They were in Poland and manned by Poles for a reason. DS

FrenchKiss on May 30, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    Obama told the truth! Its his critics that are trying to make people believe he was misinformed or misunderstood.

    Its a rare day I agree with Obama. For the critics, scoring political points is more important than respecting the truth.

    And they wonder why Jews have a low opinion of them.

    NormanF on May 30, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    “manned by Poles”…????
    Who told you that, where did you read it????
    You probably wanted to write “by germans”… -this is the fact.
    Polish people where prisons there.

    what??? on June 5, 2012 at 8:23 pm

The germans very cleverly made sure to build most of these camps in places other than germany, so fools like yourselves would blame other nations (in this case Poland) for the holocaust. Why is it that most of the “Righteous among the Nations” awards were given to Polish families?

Approximately 3 million Jews were murdered in Poland….and 3 million non-Jewish Poles were murdered right alongside them.

Learn your own history.

T: Give your lecture about learning history to the very ignorant image in your mirror. Your “the enemy of my enemy” is my friend “logic” is pitifully fallacious to even the utmost naif. Shi’ite and Sunni Muslims kill each other by the hundreds of thousands. Does that mean that either one is my ally and loves Jews? Only a moron would come to that stupid conclusion. In fact, at this time there are only a 6,339 “Righteous among Nations” who were Polish because the rest and vast majority of the Poles–a population of 35 million of them–were NOT righteous. That’s why they (these scant few) were given these awards–because they were RARE. That Poles were killed by the Nazis is no excuse for Polish anti-Semitism which spanned centuries (and to date) and the Polish gleeful and enthusiastic participation with the Nazis in their Judenrein. Wow, you are clueless. DS

truth on May 30, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    There are certainly Righteous Gentiles to whom Jews owe their lives.

    Its just that there weren’t enough of them to make a difference for the millions of Jews who were murdered.

    Where were the rest? Until Europe faces up to it honestly, conveniently blaming it on the Germans is nothing more than an evasion.

    The evasion the Polish government forced Obama to take part in.

    NormanF on May 30, 2012 at 2:09 pm

    That pollocks were also killed by Nazis illustrates the point that appeasers are eaten last…

    As Goes... on May 30, 2012 at 5:10 pm

    “The purge of Jews is not only a Nazi crime. In this country, you and I and the president of the US and the Congress and the State Department are accessories to this crime, and share Hitler’s guilt. If we behaved like humane and generous people instead of complacent, cowardly ones, two million Jews lying in the earth of Poland and Hitler’s other crowded graveyards would be alive and safe. And other millions yet to die would have found sanctuary. We had it in our power to rescue these doomed people and did not lift a hand to do it.”

    http://www.jpost.com/Magazine/Books/Article.aspx?id=139215

    karo on May 30, 2012 at 9:12 pm

    Polish anti-semitism??? So why there were milions of jews in Poland before WWII? Learn the fact, stupid american!

    Bart on June 6, 2012 at 12:33 pm

YosefV,

No one is excusing the perpetrators. But to overlook their collaborators and accomplices does violence to history, the truth and justice.

Had Europeans been against the mass murder of Jews, the whole thing might have been aborted. We need to look at the entire picture and for the Poles its not a very pleasant one.

That doesn’t give them the right to controvert the truth to excuse their guilty conscience.

NormanF on May 30, 2012 at 2:05 pm

Polish anti-semitism did not end with the Holocaust or World War II. While the Communists were in the process of taking over, they removed Jews from positions of responsibility in the Polish Communist Party, and winked at pogroms such as the Kielce pogrom in 1946. They knew that anti-semitism was rampant in Poland, and used it as a tool to help take over. They thought if they were too accommodating to Jews it would hurt them in taking over the country. Of course the Communists were anti-semitic to begin with so this wasn’t hard to do. Poland certainly had responsibility for the Holocaust and accommodated Germany. Even the Government in Exile was antisemitic for the most part.

That being said, there is also no doubt that Obama does not like Catholics or Poles, just as he doesn’t like Jews. He did not hesitate to throw Poland under the bus in sabotaging the anti-missile defense in 2009. He is also not hesitating to antagonize Catholics e.g. the contraception issue. He should not have in effect absolved Germany re the death camps, but he is relying on Germany and Merkel to help bail out the spendthrift Southern European countries, so is going out of his way not to antagonize the Germans. He probably thought that this ceremony would reverse some of the contraception damage, and probably believes that most people don’t think about the Holocaust any more, just as he doesn’t. He probably just thought about his Jewish supporters who will go along with him whatever he says.

Little Al on May 30, 2012 at 2:06 pm

And of course FDR had responsibility. It is well known that he was anti-Semitic, and the facts are too obvious to have to repeat them here. (hopefully)

Little Al on May 30, 2012 at 2:07 pm

I was thinking the same thing this morning when I heard about this, so kudos for Debbie for writing about it. So far, I think she’s the only one.

David on May 30, 2012 at 2:40 pm

Thank you for including the link to this paper, Debbie. I was rather proud to see that this gentleman hails from Iowa State (aka Moo U.).

cirrus1701 on May 30, 2012 at 2:50 pm

Upon my Grandfather’s liberation from the Concentration Camps he returned home to Czenstochova Poland with very few other Jews. A week after trying to reclaim his family’s home, as he was the only one to survive, a fellow Jewish townsman also tried to re-open his store that he had owned before the war. A few days later, this man was murdered. He was murdered by the Polish people of the town, not the Germans. My Grandfather fled back to Germany to a displaced persons camp in fear for his life, in fear of the Polish People.
While there were Polish people that were good, they also played a large part in this tragedy. Although I happen to agree with Obama, and don’t think a ‘correction’ was necessary, I think the bigger issue is battling the antisemitism that still exists today all over the world. We need to spend more time battling that issue and less time finger pointing.

Concerned 3G on May 30, 2012 at 3:25 pm

    Yes, the pollocks murdered Jews surviving death camps and trying to rebuild their destroyed lives.

    Pollocks live under a curse from God.

    As Goes... on May 30, 2012 at 5:14 pm

Rush described Jan Karski as a proud Marxist and Socialist. Is there any substance to that?

Or is he a Marxist simply b’cos Obama gave him an award?

Infidel on May 30, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    Hey, Infidel

    You’re off topic, but if Rush said it, it is true.

    AG: HUH? I hope you are joking. Rush constantly says false things on his show.. He says the United Arab Emirates are a good place, as is Dubai, and had no problems with them running our ports. He said that Jews have a fear of stadiums because it reminds them of the Holocaust, which is absurd. He said John Dingell lost his re-election bid. He claimed America didn’t care about European art during World War II and blew up stuff no matter what, which is false, as the US military had a special unit to preserve and protect art and tried to avoid blowing up art or buildings with artistry, etc. If Rush said it, you have a 50/50 chance it is true. DS

    As Goes... on May 30, 2012 at 5:15 pm

Sorry, during the Nuremberg trials, the court found that the responsible party for the extermination camps were Nazis. And the reason for so many extermination camps on poland’s soil was because a huge population of Jews lived in poland. Poles were absolutely complicit, but the establishment, administration, design, transportation and financing of the camps was the sole responsiblity of the Nazis.

FK: The Nuremberg trials found no such “responsible party.” The trials put on trial a scant few perpetrators who were mostly Nazis, but even the Nuremberg Judges said it was impossible to try more than just a few people as examples. Trying these few makes no finding as to who was responsible. And even the Polish Holocaust Center notes that the Poles were complicit and heavily involved in the camps. They helped run them and helped round up the Jews they murdered in them. You cannot produce any absolute “finding” from any Nuremberg trial that says, “the camps [were] the sole responsibility of the Nazis.” Just wasn’t the case. But nice try. DS

FrenchKiss on May 30, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    Hey FrenchKiss,

    I disagree with DS. It wasn’t a “nice try”. It was bogus BS. You’re busted.

    As Goes... on May 30, 2012 at 5:22 pm

    There was nothing like humanity. When you are closed in those camps, you just want stay alive and do what leaders want you to do to have something to eat and just be alive.
    Your thinking just killing me frenchkiss. Obviously there were polish who were doing the worst job (like putting jews and other polish to furnace or other type of mass killing equipment). Do you think, they though of the whole process, or that the poles were doing because they want? People were making the orders because the human feeling were out and there was only think to EAT and stay (somehow) ALIVE. Read books what people can do when they are hungry or in environment which is out of humanity.

    Some of brainless people will not understand it, till end of their life. I think those people should be out of society and should not be allowed to vote or anything else for goodness of their country.

    Adam on June 5, 2012 at 7:57 am

sunrises is correct. The camps were completely under Nazi control: establishment, design, financing, administration, and transportation. The Nuremberg trials have made this abundantly clear. Are the Poles anti-semitic? Yes in general. Were they complicit? A lot were. The Jews in the Warsaw ghetto begged for firearms from the outside, yet the poles never helped on a large scale to get them to the Jews, even though the Jews paid money for them.

FK: WRONG. Poles operated many of the camps. The Nuremberg trials made no such thing clear, abundantly or otherwise. And even the Nuremberg judges said they tried only a scant fraction of a fraction of Nazis and others complicit. Poles conducted murderous pogroms against Jews for centuries without Nazi involvement, and when the Nazis came, they willingly helped round up and massacre Jews. Anyone who thinks the Nuremberg trials established anything to the contrary is inventing fiction. DS

FrenchKiss on May 30, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    DS – be kind and name any camp operated by Poles, don’t foregt also to give us names of those Poles….

    I still cannot believe that anybody follows your bullshits.

    karo on May 30, 2012 at 9:38 pm

My Jewish aunt never talked much about this. Public school never got into it either. Shameful that this stuff isn’t more commonly known. Good article.

samurai on May 30, 2012 at 4:04 pm

Some Poles were of German origin…. Yes some Poles helped Hitler. Most fought. It is not rational to claim “Poles killed Jews.” That is like saying American soldiers are baby killers. Such generalities merely rape history.

Ronald Hinton on May 30, 2012 at 4:12 pm

    Hey Ronald

    You JUST DON’T GET IT, DO YOU? It is like this, if the majority had resisited this wouldn’t have happened.

    This isn’t a “nice try”. You’re BS

    As Goes... on May 30, 2012 at 5:31 pm

Thanks Debbie
As soon as I saw the outrage over this, I thought “well it’s not as if the Nazis already had the addresses of every Jew in Poland!” And what about the ghettoes? Were the Poles (and Belorussians, Ukrainians, etc) completely unaware AND incurious about what was behind those walls and fences? Puh-lease. The story of the Holocaust isn’t just the Nazis. It’s also all the people who willingly singled out one group of people for horrible death.

Sean M on May 30, 2012 at 4:15 pm

    Oh yes, baby, and why Poles taking part in a free and untamed election didn’t vote against Mr. Hitler, if they knew, what was going on behind the death camp wires? It would be so nice to depose him without using violence…

    Well, I must say American education is a real crap. I heard the same when I met American group of tourists in Poland in communist times. They asked me “why won’t you vote on someone else, if you disapprove communists?” I discovered then, why the United States must brain-drain other countries to survive.

    Piotr Kulas on June 6, 2012 at 12:11 am

the only country that did not give up it’s jews willingly were the Italians who said to hell with mussolini and hitler.they said they may be jews but they are our jews and hid thousands from the fascist bastards.

BRUCE on May 30, 2012 at 4:18 pm

As an American of Polish descent, I know that it is true that there has been an anti semitism problem amongst the Poles for years. Poland once had a very large Jewish population, and I have heard the Jews being blamed for the usual things, everything from bolshevism to predatory capitalism and everything in between. I have other beliefs about the causes of anti Jewish ism other than that they simply get blamed for some things that some (but not all, or even a majority of) their people are involved in, but those complaints about wrongs, real or imagined appear to have been used quite often as an excuse to persecute Jews. I know a little about Polacks, since I am one, and I have always noticed that a lot of them do not like Jews, and when this is discussed, the only things I can recall being used as excuses are the things I mentioned here already. One thing I do firmly believe, is that G_d comes down hard on individuals and nations that persecute the Jews and/or Israel. While I don’t care for the idea of throwing a guilt/blame/pity party every few days, I think there is a lot of truth in the saying that “Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it”.

RT on May 30, 2012 at 4:23 pm

My late father (z”l), his mother and his younger sister were the sole survivors of an exited family of roughly 250 persons… They survived the war with the help of a Polish peasant (who was aided by his sister) who was so simple he never learned to read or write even in Polish…

Having said that, and as attested to by my father as well as my aunt, the Polish population by and largely actively aided the German Nazi killing machine… In fact, there were antisemitic pogroms in Poland even after WWII…

Last but not least, though for all intents and purposes today there is no Polish-Jewish community antisemitism is alive and well in Poland… Yes, one could say that these are only soccer hooligans but one would have to be pretending to be blind to do so…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z93iQgI3_Iw&feature=player_embedded

Hans on May 30, 2012 at 4:28 pm

The era of modern Jew killing can be said to have occurred in early 17th century Poland with Chmielnitzki.

Read here (but not while eating or with food in the stomach):
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/features/the-genocide-before-the-holocaust-1.215917

Louie Louie on May 30, 2012 at 4:33 pm

    FOR YOUR INFORMATION!
    Chmielnitzki was UKRAINIAN. And he has started ANTIPOLISH and ANTISEMITIC raise.

    His raise ended COMMONWEALTH era in Poland. Times, when only Polish Jews had been given RIGHTS. “This period led to the creation of a proverb about Poland being a “heaven for the Jews”. According to some sources, about three-quarters of all Jews lived in Poland by the middle of the 16th century”

    Well… Methods of Chmelnitzki’s rebels were alike to those that UPA used during II WW. It seems Ukrainians like sophisticated forms of killing. ARE ALL UKRAINIANS MURDERES?!
    Reading doesn’t hurt.

    karo on May 30, 2012 at 5:56 pm

    google Salomon Morel

    karo on May 30, 2012 at 6:26 pm

I couldn’t agree with you more. When I heard this on the news this morning I was aghast. My mother lived on a small farm in a tiny village of Lemno in Poland. Luckily she and her immediate family were able to get out at the last minute and escaped to America. Unfortunately most of her other relatives in Poland were massacred. They did not even make it to the concentration camps. The Poles were only too happy to come in march the Jews to the forest, have them dig their own graves and shot and killed them all. My grandmother (may her memory be blessed) received a letter from a gentile neighbor in Poland after the war who let her know what happended to all her relatives. They also then moved into my mother’s farm and house and took over all the other Jewish properties as well. I am outraged by this revisionist history! Thank you Debbie for telling the truth!

Rebecca on May 30, 2012 at 4:34 pm

    Rebecca, Poland and its Poles stood out as exceptionally bad at a time when there was little or no glory to pass around.

    This map shows that even Germany itself was a bit squeamish about having the extermination facilities in Germany proper: http://frank.mtsu.edu/~baustin/holocamp.html

    Germany occupied virtually all of Western and Eastern Europe until 1944. One would have expected a dispersion of such facilities, if only for the sake of convenience and savings transport. The amazing thing is that during the Second World War, troops and desperately needed ordinance were given secondary priority to the transporation of mostly Jews to concentration and extermination camps even as the war turned decisvely against the Third Reich. This Holocaust only began to wind down when Heinrich Himmler realized in late 1944 that the game was over, He came to the realization that he would most certainly have been executed for war crimes if he were ever captured, which was no longer a distant possibility.

    The death camps were in Poland: http://0.tqn.com/d/history1900s/1/0/D/6/EasternEurope3.JPG

    One has to assume that the Third Reich had met various forms of resistance to siting the actual extermination camps in other occupied areas of Europe or in Germany itself. One could argue that the Nazis were trying to conceal the worst of their genocidal policies from their own public, but that does not explain why such camps were not located in other parts of occupied Europe, aside from Poland, during the war. It could only be that the Germans felt that the Poles would be more accepting of extermination facilities for Jews than other countries under their control. I doubt that that assumption came out of thin air, due to the sheer expense involved. Poland was different, but not in a good way.

    Worry01 on May 31, 2012 at 9:30 am

The Nuremberg Trials brought charges against all the major NAZIS and only NAZIS for

crimes against humanity–“namely, murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation, and other inhumane acts committed against any civilian population, before or during the war; or persecution on political, racial, or religious grounds in execution of or in connection with any crime within the jurisdiction of the Tribunal, whether or not in violation of domestic law of the country where perpetrated

Sorry counselor, its a conclusion even a lawyer can arrive at.

FK: Thanks for making my point with your (false) sophistry. 1) The Nuremberg Trials did NOT bring charges against “all” the major Nazis. Many major Nazis were never charged, in absentia or otherwise (and the Nuremberg judges and prosecutors admitted that they simply did not have the resources or time to go after everyone or even more than SOME of the major examples). 2) As you note, the trials went after only Nazis, and didn’t seek to find fact about Polish involvement and complicity, so the trials hardly ever declared or concluded, as you falsely claimed, that ONLY the Nazis ran and controlled the camps. It’s simply false. I only come to conclusions based on evidence. DS

FrenchKiss on May 30, 2012 at 4:34 pm

How could Poles operate Nazi camps when they were concEded as under-people?

karo on May 30, 2012 at 4:45 pm

The Poles loved the Jews so much they had pogroms _AFTER_ the Holocaust when Jews tried to return to their homes.

I have so much affection for what the Poles did (Both after the war and for centuries before) that when Solidarity was just gaining a foothold in Poland and there was talk the Soviets might intervene to crush them, I was HOPING that the Russians would move in and massacre the locals.

If any of you have a problem with that, you can go F*CK yourselves.

I_AM_ME on May 30, 2012 at 4:49 pm

    Well, I hope I’ll make you happy with the information that Soviets murdered hundreds of thousands Poles after II ww. Also, to make you even more happy, Ukrainians exterminated approx. 200000 Poles in Wolyn, Galicia and Eastern Lower Poland.

    Oh, and they have had really sophisticated methods of killings… For example, they could rip unborn from mother’s belly and seal a cat inside… Or cook babies… Rape women with knifes… The more somoene was creative, the biggest was the prize.

    karo on May 30, 2012 at 6:27 pm

As Goes – I hope you aren’t Jewish, only some stupid troll.

karo on May 30, 2012 at 5:02 pm

Debbie, this is an insightful and well-supported piece. You are correct that the righteous were far outweighed by the anti-Semites in Poland.

Gwen Orel on May 30, 2012 at 5:15 pm

Bruce, you are semi correct. Actually while Mussolini was giving lip service to Hitler, he was telling his Generals to ignore the deportation orders which actually didn’t go into effect in Italy until he was forced to accept the Nuremberg Laws. After Mussolini was deposed, the Generals absolutely refused to do anything and the Germans had to move in and actually do it themselves. There were only a few Northern Italians who are more German than Italian anyway, who embraced Hitler’s policies. I studied Hebrew on a Kibbutz that was founded by Italian and German Jews and the old Italians told me there were no problems in Rome prior to 1939. MY own mother was a student at the University there in the early 30’s and because of a lucky break, got to live among the elite. She saw these things up close.

As for the Poles, to this day, it is only the Poles who took in Jewish children and raised them as Catholics who refuse to identify who they are and these “lost” Jews who are now in their 60’s and 70’s, don’t even know that’s what they are.

Italkit on May 30, 2012 at 5:16 pm

Thanks to Debbie and all the comments here. I learned a lot from this exchange.

PDMac60 on May 30, 2012 at 5:19 pm

Even with a minimal Jewish population left in Poland, the antisemitism that still is rampant there is mind-boggling. You are right, Debbie. The Holocaust would never have occurred to the extent that it did without serious Polish complicity. Deservedly, much of the country is stuck somewhere in the early 20th century. Good riddance.

Betty on May 30, 2012 at 5:24 pm

    Have you ever been in Poland? I don’t have to guess it beacuse i know you don’t.
    We are stuck in the beginning of XX century. Yeah right and we still live in hutlol:D.
    It remindes me about one American when I was watching fireworks on 4th July in Louisville. She told me” You know this light that are fireworks we were first who created them”. Lol 😀
    And It were Chinesse people few thousand years ago. Or maybe Americans made time machine and back in time and created them.

    eljochi on June 5, 2012 at 2:19 pm

thank you, for not postin my comment about salomon morel and UPA executions on Poles (:

This is what we call freedom of speech, isn’t it?

karo on May 30, 2012 at 6:05 pm

Karo’s comment reflects the antisemitism of so many Poles. Notice the counterposition of Poles and Jews. Even though many, many Jewish people and their ancestors lived in Poland for centuries upon centuries, people like Karo consider them “Jews” rather than Poles. Just like Hitler didn’t consider Jews to be Germans.

That’s the thing about posts like this — they really bring the bigots out of the woodwork.

Little Al on May 30, 2012 at 6:41 pm

    You have really no idea what you are talkng about. Calling me antisemit is not only cheap but also hurts. First of all, by Poles I mean Polish Catholics. And I made a difference between Poles and Jewish people to make things easier to understand. Most of the Jewish people in Poland didn’t call themselves other names but Jews. Attempts to change that thinking were popular among assimilated Jews.

    I hope I don’t have to remind you that Poland didn’t exist as an country for over 100 years.

    Well. What is the most painful thing, the same way I try to fight with stupid and uneducated Poles, I must use here. They call me Jew, Hasbara apologlet, here, Pollack, antisemit… Shame on you!

    You are no different than antisemitic people!
    And calling me antisemitic just proves what kind of people I’m dealing with…

    Layla tov khaverim.

    karo on May 30, 2012 at 7:04 pm

Debbie …. I grew up Orthodox in Monsey NY ( in fact, Richie Schlussel was in my class …any relation?)! My wife and I have traveled to Poland many times( as well as to many other holocaust countries incl Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Belarus, Ukraine, Hungary, Czech Rep, Russia, Germany, Austria etc etc)

We are also avid holocaust readers and movie watchers.

Your claims and findings about Poland could not be more incorrect. We too, were misinformed about Poland’s role. Other than personal family experiences, you state no facts to back up your outrageous claims.

If the Nazis had not invaded Poland, there would probably be 6-8 mill Jews living there today!

You are really so misguided, arrogant …it is breathtaking!

How many times have you visited Poland to see what really went on?

You as others, are doomed to repeat the past….as you have not learned any of the proper lessons from the Holocaust ( which is not simply having an IDF and air force)!

Curse me out all you want, so I can quote you on my facebook holocaust survivor’s page!

MBH on May 30, 2012 at 6:52 pm

Reading some of these posts helps us to see how Holocaust denial could become a mass movement in the US. It probably wouldn’t spread by people just denying that the Holocaust ever happened.

Rather, they would deny the Poles, Italians, etc. etc. really had anything to do with it. The circle of responsibility would become smaller and smaller. We have already seen in this post, commenters who deny Polish and Italian responsibility (after all, only 20% of Jews in Italy were killed in the Holocaust, and Mussolini only facilitated the passage of some of them to death camps, not all of them, so was he really so bad?)

So comments like those of Karo and Italkit should be read as preliminary steps towards Holocaust denial — they are instructive in showing us the methods that will be used more and more by antisemites.

Little Al on May 30, 2012 at 6:52 pm

    Holocaust denial?! Are you out of your mind?! Have I deniad anything what happend in any of many comments? What you say is outrageous! I admit that Poles have done many bad things, but you cannot deny that they’re also most frequently honored as righteous among the nations! And yes, it is little number, but what have done Jewish people in USA to save European Jews? WHAT?! Allies turn their back on Poland, even tohugh everyone knew what’s going on! Poles were killed too! And Roma people, Soviet, homosexuals, mentaly ill and others.

    You are just so blind that it is even beyond my comprehension.

    karo on May 30, 2012 at 7:15 pm

I’ve never seen more slinging of racial slurs and bigotry from one post. No one here seems to have much of a grasp of any history orther than perhaps NormanF. No one should feel too bad for the Jews at this point. They got a great country out of it and still receive billions in US aid for the foreseeable future. In terms of actual blood spilled before and during WWII, I’d say Stalin beats the Germans with nearly three times the number of his own people slaughtered (including many Jews). Everyone speaks of the Jews as if they are innocent parties to the world’s atrocities… They were elbows deep in the slave trade and do their share of human rights violations in Gaza and the West bank. This blog would be an interesting place to discuss things if it werent a Klan rally most of the time.

MuchObliged on May 30, 2012 at 6:54 pm

    MO, don’t pretend you object to the Klan.

    skzion on May 30, 2012 at 7:35 pm

Where is Kenny Powers when you need him..?

funtimez on May 30, 2012 at 7:03 pm

Debbie as soon as I saw this news item I knew the Poles were trying to rewrite history. But they’re about the same as every other country that assisted in the Final Solution. Aside from Germany I’m not aware that any European country has done much to accept responsibility and help repair the Jews. B’H the IDF’s best submarines are German built. I just hope they’re less leaky than my BMW. BTW DS the shidduch date couple I set up are still courting.

A1 on May 30, 2012 at 7:05 pm

This thread is on fire. And full of interesting stuff (on DS’ part). She knows her stuff and you better too when debating her. A keeper, for sure!

Love this word: Lumpenconservatariat. These sorts are bringing me down these days. Getting easier to spot them and I must pay closer attention to my intuition and facts ( I was pondering this this morning).

This subject is certainly not my best known subject (by far!!) but after reading what DS posted, it’s painful to hear the so-called Conservatives having a head explosion because of the so-called gaffe. DS’ first sentence is so true and her knowledge of the facts (on the issue) makes them look ridiculous!

Again, I know almost nothing about this but it is a topic we should all properly look into. I love to learn but we also must admit when we are not well versed in a topic. This has been something I have been thinking about a lot these days. Gotta get crackin’ because there is so much to KNOW and it doesn’t serve us to be ignorant on topics we need to know.

I just wish the Lumpenconservatariat would just honestly cop to having little knowledge on certain topics and do more research before they have head explosions. I wanna know the TRUTH more than anyone. And more than ever it’s clear that not all Conservatives are on our side!

Skunky on May 30, 2012 at 7:16 pm

    You know Skunky that certain members of the lumpenconservatariat who shall remain nameless(like certain Fox News hosts who come on at 8 and 9pm) will do in regards to research. They will take Debbie’s, use it and not give her any credit for it. A pox on all of these bozos and those two especially.

    Ken b on May 31, 2012 at 9:07 am

    The truth will make you free.

    Krzysztof on June 6, 2012 at 1:35 pm

let´s nor forget that in 1969 all remaining Jews living in Poland were thrown out of the country by the communist gov´t. This resulted in a complete disappearance of qualified doctors, professors, other academics and craftsmen.

jerry1800 on May 30, 2012 at 7:23 pm

Facts are stubborn things. The historical record is that Christians of good will saved well over 500,000 Jews during The Holocaust. Even if it was 1 or 2 or 3 million Debbie and the rest would still minimize it. What about the USA , a Christian nation, airlifting arms to Israel during the Six Day War….helping turn the tide, the 6 billion iin aid the US gives annually to Israel and the hundreds of millions in tourism? I know “small peanuts”. Just as the affirmative action in chief thinks its 1965, many still think its 1940. BTW, there are more jews from a % standpoint by far who are anti -Christian than Christians who are anti-Semitic. But hey, facts are stubborn things.

Righteous Gentile on May 30, 2012 at 7:25 pm

Wherever evil exerts its power, there will be cowards who become complicit. That’s the nature of fallen man. Poles may have even have been worse than other nationalities, although I could give you a treatise on the blind eyes turned by Frenchmen, Englishmen, Americans, and any number of other nationalities during the Holocaust. For the most part, everyone refused to admit what was happening, because admitting it would make for difficult choices.

But this is about a president standing in front of Polish officials and insulting them. Practical politics says that’s stupid, and if the president was really so smart that he knows what you know about Polish complicity, then the occasion of an award to a Polish hero is simply the wrong time to make that point.

J.P. Travis on May 30, 2012 at 7:59 pm

The pollacks helped turn the Jews over to the Nazis. They even pointed out infants the Nazis missed.

Jonathan E Grant on May 30, 2012 at 8:27 pm

    Yes you were there and saw everything on your own eyes.
    Dumb American you have no idea how it was in that time. When I read your comment about my own notion I want to puke.
    You are the most hated nation in the whole wide world and now you loose one of your biggest allies. We loose our pacience and our stupid president and prime minister won’t win another election beacuse it loves you so much.
    But we normal people start to think rationaly. We help in wars and you still lay about our history. Your president doesn’t do antyhing about it and doesn’t do antyhing with idiots like you. Maybe it is time you find some new friend.

    eljochi on June 5, 2012 at 2:08 pm

They were not Polish death camps but Nazi death camps located in Poland and your ignorance of history is astounding and pathetic. The death camps were German run with the help of Ukrainians and other Soviet occupied peoples such as Lithuanians. Yes there is a history of anti-Semitism in Poland but to clam that the Poles were allies in the Holocaust with the Nazis is absurd. The death camps were located in Poland because a majority of the Jews of Europe were living in the East.

Repeat on May 30, 2012 at 8:47 pm

    Repeat, there is no ignorance here. It is just that people are not buying the blame shifting anymore. Poles lived under a military dictatorship prior to Germany’s invasion, and had done so since the 1920’s. The links have already been provided in other posts by myself and others regarding Polish history and collaboration. Polse were notorious for their anti-Semitism from the Middle Ages onward, even by the fairly low standards of Eastern Europe at the time.

    Worry01 on May 31, 2012 at 5:00 am

      Worry01 – it was so antisemitic that 3/4 of entire European Jeisj population has found home in Po-lin.

      What links? About Chmielnitzki? Google Chmielnicki. He wasn’t Polish and he has started ANTIPOLISH/ANTINOBLE/ANTISEMITIC raise…

      You all here are bunch of ignorant assholes. And no different from antisemits. Full of sick prejudice, based on 0 knowledge.

      Have fun in hell with your antagonists!

      me.me.me on May 31, 2012 at 8:53 am

      Worry, you should indeed worry about the state of your education. What schools have you attended? Your reference to Polish anti-semitism from Middle Ages is funny, to say the least. In fact, when the Jews were purged and thrown out in medieval ages from Spain, Portugal, England, France, Germany and Italy, Polish king Casimir the Great saved them, by giving Jews refuge in Poland. The Jews were relocated to the lands Poland gained in the east and were used as craftsmen, administrators for aristocrats, money lenders, etc. They were granted by the Polish kings special privileges and enjoyed tolerance they never had in Spain, Portugal, England or France. All of it until the end of 18th century, when Poland was partitioned by Prussia, Austria and Russia.

      Janusz Andrzejewski on May 31, 2012 at 6:49 pm

If Obama claimed that there were lots of people helping the jews that was inaccurate. it should also be pointed out that Jew should have been in the land of Israel which was prevented by British ass hole and Arab violence. In fact the right treatment should have been the complete expulsions of Arab from the land of Israel and land that Israel won in defensive war against Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon et al. This is the only way to have peace is let the Arabs they loose land if they start a war. By the way it is also time to include Reagan in politician ho undermmine Israel. His promise to move the embassy to Israel, arms to the Saudi and recognizing the PLO.

madman on May 30, 2012 at 9:03 pm

Hitler and the Nazis took advantage of a millenium of Jew-hatred in Europe…the Nazis knew they had eager and willing collaborators and executioners. POLAND, RUSSIA, (INCLUDING UKRAINE AND LITHUANIA), HUNGARY, CZECHOSLOVAKIA, FRANCE, HOLLAND, to name a few, all had vast majorities of their Jewish populations murdered. The largest percentage of murdered Jews was from Poland. No surprise that the Nazis built every single death camp (with crematoria) on Polish soil. Message to Poland: we don’t forgive and we shall never forget.

nailsagainsttheboard on May 30, 2012 at 9:32 pm

    Kid, tell it to families that risk their life protecting your people. Tell them this in the face. Tell it to mothers that were in camps where they lost so much. Tell that to families that were exterminated just because they help Jews.
    You pathetic little prick, be ashamed of yourself. You will never forget ? YOU ALREADY FORGOT. You just too stupid to admit it.
    You Jews also forgot how some of you sold your own people just to keep your pathetic life.
    Attack on Poland start WW2. Also Poland was free country that never look down on other nations. There was so many Jews in Poland BECAUSE we accept them. Germans had time to build camps here because we were hit first and because there was so many Jews in our country.
    There was no single person that willingly helped Germans. And not only Jews were in camps but Poles to.

    So get back to your pathetic life because and treasure it. Who knows ? Maybe you can spread your lies you idiot just because some family lost their life helping your family. Treasure it while you spit on their graves and their country. Pathetic fool.

    G on June 5, 2012 at 6:39 am

    Both Lithuanians and people of Ukraine would be sad to name them Russians. American idiot, thinking that USA is a salvation for the whole human race. Pathetic.

    KP on June 5, 2012 at 8:44 am

    There was no CZECHOSLOVAKIA in that time! (you ignorant!).

    Germans built the death camps in that countries because there was the bigest population of jewish people.
    There were so many of them there bacause they could live there in peace for houndreds years before the war (after they had to escape from western Europe from anti-semitic persecution).
    Read the historical books!

    teacher on June 5, 2012 at 7:56 pm

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