July 16, 2012, - 11:03 am

Obamacracy in Egypt: Wealthy Arab Tourists Buy Under-Aged Egyptian Girls for Sex Slaves

By Debbie Schlussel

I loved that Egyptians threw shoes and other items at Hillary Clinton (and shouted, “Monica! Monica!”), the mother of Muslim Brotherhood “democracy,” during her visit to Egypt. That’s how Muslims experess their “appreciation” to the Western liberator. We saw it in Lebanon, Iraq, Gaza/HAMASastan, etc. And we’ll continue to see it, even as America continues to shower billions on these America-hating ingrates while whining about Israel. These newly liberated Muslims–liberated to their savagery–just hate us more. And laugh at us . . . and throw shoes and shout the names of their Western liberator’s husband’s extramarital concubines. And now there’s yet another great development of Muslim “civilization” in newly-“democratized” Egypt.


Wealthy tourists from the Persian Gulf are paying to marry under-age Egyptian girls just for the summer, according to a report.

These temporary marriages are not legally binding and end when the men return to their homes in Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Kuwait.

The tourists pay a ‘dowry’ to poor families through intermediaries with prices ranging from £320 to £3,200.

The young victims – some under 18 – suffer sexual slavery and are forced to be servants to their ‘husbands’, claims the U.S. State Department report ‘Trafficking in Persons’.

No foreigner can marry an Egyptian girl if there is an age difference of 10 years, according to state laws. But parents and marriage brokers are getting round the restriction.

They will forge birth certificates to make the girls appear older and the men younger. In 2009, a court in Alexandria jailed two registrars for conducting temporary marriages of hundreds of girls under 18.

Now that Mubarak (who was tougher in stamping this out) is out, don’t look for any more sex-slavery-enabling registrars to go to jail. Their people–the Muslim Brotherhood–are now in power in Egypt.

Sex before marriage is banned under Islamic law and most hotels and landlords demand proof before allowing a couple to share the same room.

But the report found that many parents will marry their daughter without her consent and often the girls agree to the arrangement because their families have no money.

Some of the victims are taken back to their husband’s country to work as maids while those left in Egypt are shunned by the conservative society – particularly if they have children during their temporary marriage.

The shame leads many of the girls to dump these youngsters in orphanages or abandon them with thousands of other Egyptian street children.Many of these ‘brides’ are also targeted by Egyptian men and forced into prostitution.

Yup, that’s “Islamic modesty” for ya. Muslim families who farm out their daughters into sex slavery to make a buck. Sounds modest to me.

It should be noted that Islamic temporary marriage, known as “mut’ah,” used to be the province of Shi’ite Muslims. Saddam Hussein outlawed them, but when we paid with American lives to hand Iraq back to Iranian-backed Shi’ites, the mut’ah was legalized and is common there now. But, now, the mut’ah is a common practice among all Muslims. The only difference is that with Shi’ites, the mut’ah involves no dowry. It can last only an hour or a few weeks and the mut’ah woman has no legal rights as a wife under Islam. She’s just a sex toy to be thrown out on the street when it’s over. It’s just a phony “marriage” for sex, so that Muslim men can pretend they are modest and not sleeping around with every skirt they see. The mut’ah began to be permitted during the Muslim battle for Mecca, and under Islamic law, mut’ahs are permitted with Muslim and Jewish women, b/c Islam sees Jewish women as good only for sex slavery.

Uh-huh, more of the “Islamic modesty” that faux-conservative Jeff Jacoby lectured us that we must respect, even at the cost of American national security.

Oh, and before you blame only Obama and Hillary for this new, “democratized,” Muslim Brotherhood Egypt, don’t forget that Bush is the father of Islamic democracy and Arab Spring. This was his dream. Now, it’s our nightmare.

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45 Responses


kirche on July 16, 2012 at 11:12 am

Bush really did mess things up. I think he probably meant well but was just naive, unlike Obama who embraces our enemies. I think Bush really thought by promoting democracy in the middle east that the people there would value that freedom like we do here. That comes from not really understanding Islam. I wish our leaders would read this site and others that expose islam for what it truly is.

J: Stop making excuses for Bush. He knew exactly what he was doing. He recently penned an op-ed in the Wall St. Journal praising all of this Arab democracy Springtime crap. You clearly have a double standard when it comes to Bush and will excuse all, when he was no different than Obama. No different at all. DS

John on July 16, 2012 at 11:34 am

    Sorry Debbie, not trying to make excuses. I said he messed things up, of that there is no doubt. I just personally believe his motivations were different than Obama’s. I am agreeing with you. I know that doesn’t make it any better. Bush also pushed amnesty, just like Obama. When it comes down to it, it seems they are all the same no matter who we elect. Sorry if you think I am defending Bush, I am not.

    John on July 16, 2012 at 12:23 pm

      John, have you ever heard the expression, “the road to hell is paved with good intentions?” Doesn’t matter what he intended if he achieved the wrong result.

      Italkit on July 16, 2012 at 12:27 pm

        ITALKIT, Yes, very familiar, you and Debbie are both right. Bush was dead wrong. Back in the early days of the Iraq war, sad to say, I drank the kool aide myself and thought bringing democracy to the mid east was a good idea. I can admit I was wrong. Back then I was naive as well. So I am coming from that point of view. That is why I love reading Debbie’s work. She presents a side that you will not hear anywhere else. Even when she takes me to the wood shed I don’t mind. I come here to get information and get educated. I don’t have to agree with her 100% all the time. I don’t. More times than not, I do though.

        John on July 16, 2012 at 12:41 pm

        Hamastan should have given people the clue about where Arab democracy was heading. This is what happens when you allow free elections in Muslim countries. Every time, they will vote for extremists. If there is a Muslim country that has elected a liberal government, I’d love to hear about it. The truth the “democratizers” like Bush, Condi, Obama and Clinton have condemned millions of people to tyranny and decades of slavery, torture and death. But they will still get to collect their pensions and write about how “prescient” they are. None of them have a clue as to what is actually happening in the lands now run by the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda and the Taliban. Let’s hear it for “democracy” in the Muslim World!

        NormanF on July 16, 2012 at 12:55 pm

      How Bush’s grandfather helped Hitler’s rise to power:

      Miriam on July 19, 2012 at 8:15 am

    Absolutely right, Debbie!

    Italkit on July 16, 2012 at 12:25 pm

Typo – should be Wealthy Arab Tourists buy Under-Aged Egyptian Girls for Sex Slaves. In fact, make it rent – buy would imply that it’s permanent, but there are no marriages here.

Anyway, about the story about the demonstration, it wasn’t a bunch of Muslim Brotherhood ingrates demonstrating (not that they’d have shown any gratitude), but a bunch of pro-Mubarak, pro-Nasserite demonstrators who are pissed that Obama seems to be supporting the Muslim Brotherhood instead of them. However, these people wouldn’t otherwise be our allies either – just like Mubarak himself was a very toxic for Israel in terms of creating a Judeophobic atmosphere in Egypt, if these people came to power, it would be like having Nasser all over again. I just want to point out that they were not doing anything out of any ingratitude.

On the part about the sex trafficking, the only thing exclusive to the Shia about mu’tah marriages is the terminology used, not the practice itself. Sunnis don’t call it mu’tah, they call it urfi and misyar marriages. An urfi marriage is an unofficial marriage that is activated by signing a document in front of witnesses, but can be nullified by simply ripping apart the paper. Misyar, or traveller’s marriage, is what it suggests – a visitor to a place gets a local as a wife for the duration of his stay, and he gets to leave after that w/ zero marital obligations. In short, little different from one night stands here in the West, except that non-Muslims here don’t pretend that it’s ‘marriage’.

The truth is that while Sunnis love to pretend that all the depravity in Islam is an exclusive privilege of Shia, fact remains that they are every bit as vile as Shia in just about every aspect (except maybe the self-flaggelation during ashura). No need to take any of their claims about ‘We don’t do this, only the Shia do’ seriously at all.

Infidel on July 16, 2012 at 12:12 pm

    They ALL do it.

    What is really funny is Egyptian liberals and Arab nationalists being upset with the Muslim Brotherhood win. The Muslim Brotherhood doesn’t believe in democracy but they do know how to win elections and they have a coherent program.

    Their opponents don’t know how to do it and don’t have one and are shocked when they lose. And blaming America is really making them friends abroad. The opposition is just as anti-Israel and anti-American as the Muslim Brotherhood – the only difference is they aren’t in power.

    There isn’t a lot in the Muslim World that commends itself to us and the one thing no one should ever expect is for the extremists there to moderate in power. Hasn’t happened under Fatah, Hamas and Hezbollah and it won’t happen under the Muslim Brotherhood.

    NormanF on July 16, 2012 at 1:06 pm

Islamic “modesty” in real life means backdoor prostitution. Muslims like to slam us for prostitution and porn while claiming to have sexually chaste societies. We’re not morally perfect but at least we are not hypocrites and pretend there is something morally justifiable about sex outside marriage like Islam does! We don’t have Jewish rabbis and Christian priests use Jewish and Christian religious laws to sanction the molestation and rape of children and women. Islamic clerics sanction “marriages” for no reason than to allow a man to sleep around. Keep that mind when you hear Muslim shills tell us their societies are not full of vice and sin like America. Its there but they just pretend it doesn’t exist. And we’ll see more of it under “Islamic democracy” in the future.

NormanF on July 16, 2012 at 12:47 pm

John, one can only believe that Bush did not realize what he was doing IF that person does not understand the history of the ME and the TRUE politics of the person one is trying to excuse (Bush).

The left demonized Bush with a whole lot o’ fake sh**. That can confuse some Conservatives because they don’t want to agree with the Left. The thing is that although they whipped themselves up in perpetual “2 minutes hate” for GWB (never even getting close to the “good-guts” material) they missed all the VALID stuff that would bolster and prove why they hated Bush with a passion. There is plenty of that and DS knows and has documented it. You should use her archives to fill in the blanks for yourself.

Hillary Clinton is lucky she did not get gang raped in Egypt.

I wish I knew what I know about Islam now back in 2001. One can’t puff out their chest and talk about going to war (the wrong way) with Mooooooooslims without knowing some certain and stark facts. And lets face it…the clues were always there…just few knew ’em (and now they ignore them or make excuses for them).

So much in this column. The fraud and faux-chastity of perverted Islam, the Western apologists and know-nothings who look the other way and the very evil and satanic backwards ways of Islam. The Religion of Sociopathy.

Time we get SOMEONE in leadership who understands these dangerous and evil things. And is willing to meet it with an iron fist and sharp sword.

Skunky on July 16, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    Skunky, you write that Hillary is lucky she did not get gang raped.

    I disagree. Even Muslims have some standards.

    Jonathan E. Grant on July 16, 2012 at 1:07 pm

      Jonathan, you sir took the words right out of my mouth regarding Hillarious Clinton.

      Ken b on July 17, 2012 at 11:10 am

    True Skunky. I had high hopes for Bush. I was very let down by many of his policies. And to risk sounding like I am making again exuses for him again, unlike Obama, at least Bush seemed to love this country. I know that sounds like making excuses, but after 3 plus years of Obama-Putin..LOL… Again, let me state. Bush was wrong, and so was I.

    John on July 16, 2012 at 1:22 pm

      Hi John – appreciate your thoughtful/polite responses.

      BTW, Mr. Bush desperately wanted to turn the security of America’s ports over to his Dubai friends.

      brickwood on July 16, 2012 at 2:05 pm

        Brickwood, thanks for reminding me about that one. That was outrageous. At the time, I chalked that one up to Bush being totally out of touch. He was perplexing to me. He seemed so right on some issues, and on others, well….oy! At the risk of being taken to the woodshed again, I still believe that Bush loved his country. He was just dead wrong on some very important issues. Let the flogging begin.

        John on July 16, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    Islamic modesty is as scarce as air on Mars.

    Worry on July 16, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    To Skunky: ‘Hillary Clinton is lucky she did not get gang raped in Egypt’. Now that’s saying something….

    Mrs Clinton’s PA, Huma Mahmood Abedin Wiener, daughter of Pakistani mother, Saleha Mahmood Abedin, has MBH allegiances.The mother is supposed to be a voice for women in MBH.

    In 2010, Abedin was included in Time’s “40 under 40”, a list of a “new generation of civic leaders” and “rising stars of American politics.” At a celebration prior to Abedin’s wedding to Anthony Weiner, Clinton said in a speech, “I only have one daughter. But if I had a second daughter, it would be Huma.”

    Another Clinton cringe worthy moment. Nevertheless, whilst females in the ME continue to be abused and morally degraded as trivial trash, these ‘rising stars’ with leverage look on and do nothing about the Gender Apartheid and related brutality. The same two faced people will throw red herrings to divert attention by casting aspersions on the only democratic country in the ME, Israel, getting the billions of Muslims to bay in the background in unison.

    Some while ago DS wrote about the young British journalist who was physically attacked by the local Egyptian barbarians and there was an outrage of trolling commentators,let’s see whether they surface now in defence of these young women/children whose lives have been sordidly abused and damaged.

    Eyes Wide Open on July 16, 2012 at 5:25 pm

      Indeed Eyes. Thanks very much for pointing out about Huma’s Mama who is a female member of the MB. Conservatives should be clucking full-tilt boogie on that topic but they’d rather stick to the boring “talking points” the rest of the Lumpenconservatariat are clucking about.

      Great point JEG!

      John, I know what you’re trying to say…that Obama-Putin is an America hater to his core. And those Conservatives not in-the-know may try to stick up for GWB just to be contrary to the Liberal idiots but the Conservatives have better start doing some finger-pointing in their own backyard.

      I’m glad to say this site has opened my eyes in that area (especially about Islam…which I think is the number one topic USA should be worried about). Others took Bush to task for his Liberalism but as DS has stated, he himself has put the USA in a world of hurt with his Islamopandering. When I look back on it now (knowing more) it scares me very much. It was never talked about until I started reading DS’ columns. She still is one of the few who talks about it but has her PhD in it.

      Skunky on July 16, 2012 at 6:39 pm

Where is the UN? Where are all the American feminist organizations like NOW? Where is George Soros?

I_AM_ME on July 16, 2012 at 1:13 pm

    You might well ask, where these people are. Your list should include Bishop Tutu, Navi Pillay/ UN trouble maker de luxe, EU Baroness ‘smell under the nose’ Catherine Ashton, chief Israel basher, and all the other do-nothings veiled by Human Rights. They’re all sitting on the sidelines watching Syria burn, bunch of good for nothings.

    Eyes Wide Open on July 16, 2012 at 6:53 pm

“Sex before marriage is banned under Islamic law and most hotels and landlords demand proof before allowing a couple to share the same room…”

Yeah, that’s why I bet that many of these “marriages” are man/boy arrangements a’la (sounds like allah, get it?) like the bacha bazi boy custom.

CornCoLeo on July 16, 2012 at 1:14 pm


CornCoLeo on July 16, 2012 at 1:21 pm

One thing I forgot to mention in my last post – the sex trafficking would probably be Egypt’s main income source once they are done blowing up the pyramids and the Sphinx, just like they want to.

Infidel on July 16, 2012 at 1:22 pm

Im a Muslim and you will be see me commenting on this site from now on.. First of such actions are present in all poor societies. And just as Shias has this kind of marriage which is wrong, Europeans had mistresses so no much difference

Regarding sex slavery; although Im a Muslim and Arab all people I knew stood against me when I told them Im in favor of Gaddafi and Mobarak. Why is that? because uncivilized people need to be ruled by dictators. Look at Turkey, Tunisia, Malaysia and even Mauritania, they deserve democracy because they can understand it (in Turkey for the exception of the Kurds who are the people who “honor” kill their families) . On the other hand, the Libyan rebels and some Egyptian rebels proved to be savages thus needing a dictator to rule them. Thats why Im against foreign countries entering our countries, the US sent Al-Qaeda to power by aiding them with weapons and fielding agents from the military and in Iraq they handed it to the fascist Iranians…..

Pop on July 16, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    @pop – Please do not confuse underage children of poor families being forced before some bureaucrat to submit to a temporary “marriage” for money, with European mistresses of legal age who enter an arrangement with full knowledge.

    Rochelle on July 17, 2012 at 12:29 pm

Its more of Bernakes fault then anyone else. We keep outsourcing our inflation to the rest of the world.

max on July 16, 2012 at 2:19 pm

Debbie this is an outrage. Do they have any pretty blonde lawyers in need of summer employment?

A1 on July 16, 2012 at 2:24 pm

Pop, Malaysia is another country that is barely 60% Muslim, but they’ve completely institutionalized discrimination against Christians, Hindus and Buddhists. Had this been a White Christian/Jewish nation, you’d have heard howls of ‘apartheid’.

Right now, Malaysia is busy using zoning ordinances amongst other laws to demolish churches and Hindu temples. There have been cases where dead non-Muslims were declared as having converted to Islam on their deathbed, and their family members being overruled on both cremation rites, as well as on property issues. All Malays are legally defined as Muslim and disallowed from changing their religion on their ID cards. Yeah, Malaysia is years ahead of more savage countries like Egypt or Saudi Arabia, but by no means is it as civilized as you claim.

Turkey used to be fine under Kemal, but after seeing its repeated attempts to join Europe get rebuffed, not on grounds that it’s Muslim but on grounds that the army held power, it’s now seen the more democratic government it has enable a return to islam. It’s not just Kurds who honor kill – Turks do it as well, it’s just not common in Ankara and Istanbul. At any rate, having failed to join the EU, Turkey is now one of the contenders for leader of the Muslim empire. Along w/ Saudi Arabia, they are backing the Sunni jihadis in Syria, and are essentially competing w/ Iran, Saudi Arabia and the new Egypt for that title. Iran’s chances are slim unless Shia take over in other countries like they have in Iraq, but Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and even Pakistan have good chances.

Mauritania – have no idea what goes on their. But neighboring Mali seems to be in a civil war b/w Jihadis who now own Timbuktoo, vs their regime.

About the tu quoque references to European mistresses, aside from that being a thing of the past, in the West – Europe and Americas – women have the same rights as men. While some may argue that it’s been detrimental to a good degree given the chickification of both continents, certain things, such as having sex w/ minors, is still reviled throughout the rest of the world – outside Islam. Of course, Islam can’t condemn it since Mohammed himself married a 6 year old Aisha and consumated the marriage when she was 9. And since Mohammed is thought of as uswa hasana, there is no way you, as a Muslim, can criticize his act or even call it anachronistic for today’s world, w/o being accused of being unIslamic and targeted by a fatwa – or worse.

Infidel on July 17, 2012 at 4:06 am

I will have to disagree with you “Infidel?” (why that name?)

I will just comment about the thing of Prophet Muhammed and Aisha, the talk that he married at 6 is 1: controversial, 2: unagreed on by most Muslims.

Once again we go on to who twists history…. Wahhabis aka Qaeda aka Saudi Arabia and some Shias.

Wahhabis say that what u claim is true, but they are the same people who stone women and gays and force women to wear a viel..
Can I take you back to the times were Muslims were not controlled by Wahhabis? The Ottoman Empire, the Spanish Andalusia and the Arabs that until today do not live under Wahhabis (like Sunnis in Iraq under Saddam, or Libya under Gaddafi or even countries like MALI (majority Muslims fighting Wahhabis, see a pattern?)

Just for u to know, Wahhabis are the only people who claim they got married at 6. It all comes from the Hadith that they follow this is never proven, the only thing a Muslim follows is the Quran and according to other groups of Islam, he married her at 9 (in order for it to be legal to live with him) taught her Islam for 10 years THEN consumated the marriage as per instruction of Allah because Islam required some one closely associated with prophet during last 10 years of concluding Islam who should live long after prophet so that the doubts about the Islamic way of life can be cleared for new comers to Islam after Prophet. OH and BTW, at 19 she CHOSE to get the marriage consumated. And still, this is only based on Hadith which is never reliable.

Pop on July 17, 2012 at 9:12 am

Pop, the accounts about Aisha’s age are pretty well documented in the Sahih Hadiths of both Bukhari & Muslim, which, as you know, are next only to the Quran as far as their acceptance amongst Muslims go.

You can disown and denounce the ‘Wahabis’ all you like, but they happen to be the main practitioners of the Hanbali school of Islamic jurisprudence. They were founded in the 17th century to go back to the roots of original islam. As you probably know, there are 4 schools of Sunni Islamic jurisprudence (I won’t muddy the water here by discussing Shias, who are limited to Iran, Iraq, Bahrein and Azerbaijan) – Hanafi, Shafii, Hanbali and Maliki. Wahabi is simply an implementation of the Hanbali doctrines.

But there ain’t different Hadiths within Sunni Islam itself whose credibility is disputed, and Bukhari and Muslim, which I cited above, are considered next only to the Quran. All schools of Islamic jurisprudence – Sunni or Shia – accept this child marriage aspect of Mohammed for that reason (which are not just there in the Hadiths, but also the Sira of Ibn Ishaq). The Islamic movements that have just taken over Tunisia, Libya, Egypt and Yemen are not Wahabi – none of them. Tunisia and Libya (along w/ much of West Africa, including Mali and Mauritania) are Maliki, Yemen is Shafii, while Egypt is mainly Hanafi, but the Shafii school comes from Cairo’s al Azhar university. So while you seem to be loosely putting all Islamic campaigns throughout North Africa and West Asia as ‘Wahabi’ campaigns, fact remains that they’re not, since Wahabi is exclusively Hanbali (and al Qaeda follows it), whereas most of the world’s Muslim countries follow either Hanafi or Shafii doctrines. But Jihadi campaigns happen in all of them, regardless of which doctrine they follow.

Incidentally, don’t think that Shia don’t follow this just b’cos Bukhari or Muslim ain’t among their main Hadiths. Ayatollah Ruhoolah Khomenei married a 6 year old girl when he was 28 (better than Mohammed, who married his 6 year old when he was 59), and among the first acts of the Islamic revolution in Iran was to lower the minimum marriage age to 9 years.

Stoning women and gays, similarly, is an Islamic concept based on Mohammed’s own examples. Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran and Sudan all have it – examples of Hanafi, Hanbali, Khomeniei and Shafii implementaions of Shariah law.

P.S. The name ‘Infidel’ is something I picked b’cos:
1) it is shorter than “non-Muslim”
2) it provides the Muslim view of what we are, but clearly devoid of the Muslim sting
3) it gets us, the Infidels, used to thinking of how many Muslims think of us — and inuring us to that thought.
4) it confuses and disturbs Muslims when non-Muslims, in writing, call themselves “Infidels”
5) use of the word “Infidel” makes clear the vast abyss, in Muslim terms, between Believer and …. Infidel.

I previously went by the name ‘Infidel Pride’, but shortened it to ‘Infidel’ since nobody else claimed the glorious title. 🙂

Infidel on July 17, 2012 at 11:39 am

    @Infidel – Thank you for your very insightful and enlightening posts which clarify the misinformation so often posted here.
    Yes, the name Infidel does indeed speak for me as well.

    Rochelle on July 17, 2012 at 12:47 pm

Another good post Debbie. First off I did have high hopes for Bush when he became President instead of that moron Al Gorelioni. Sadly a big part of his time on office will be remembered as how he and his foreign policy team screwed to pooch in the Middle East. As much as it pains men to say it Obungler and Hillarious aren’t the only ones responsible for this mess. It also was funny when our jet setting Sec of State got a tomato taste of Muslim thanks by those appreciative dirtbags. I wish that I was a fly on the wall in her car. Dumb liberal politicians will never learn.

Everytime I hear the doofus Muslims decry the US for being decadent and weak I just scratch my head. I guess sex trafficking of innnocent young children is height of strength.
No you Muslim dirtbags it just further shows me and a good number of posters on this site what pathetic barbarians that you are. Still we have apologists for the followers of the “peaceful” religion on both sides of the political spectrum. The dunderheaded liberals and RINOs like Oblamo and Bush I can understand their stupidity. It’s the so called conservative talking heads cheering on the Arab Spring that really had me going. It’s funny now hearing these frauds backpeddling like fools. I guess all of these guys think that the Muslim Brotherhood will make nicey nice with Israel. Yeah right.

Ken b on July 17, 2012 at 11:48 am


Bob on July 17, 2012 at 1:03 pm

Debbie, another excellent expose of taking advantge by the mooooselambrains of underage females for sex. There are so many “of age” and some more than willing to perform whatever sex acts they’d like for money and some even for free. Nuthin like a good Arab hypercrite. Debbie, you spot ’em coming a mile away. good job !

Bob on July 17, 2012 at 1:07 pm

You are so right..why don’t you send your wife over to Egypt?? She could make a fortune on her knees and save all those underage inexperienced girls and let her do what she does best. ooopps, well, it IS a soution lol.

becky_canon68@yahoo.com on July 17, 2012 at 1:18 pm

Rochelle, thanks. Those 5 reasons for describing us as Infidels originally came from Hugh Fitzgerald, and like you, I found them insightful enough to make a note of it. While the original explanation was his, I fully agree w/ it.

Infidel on July 17, 2012 at 2:15 pm

“Infidel” I actually spoke with two Muslim scholars today and they denied the credibility of this; again no. Wahhabis are Qaeda. they might have already originated from the Hanbalis but they have affected the rest of the Islamic world with their views unfortunatelly. They created Qaeda and Taliban (by working with the US to defeat the Soviets) and now al-Qaeda are in control of Libya.

BTW, I really think you have a swerved point of view regarding how the majority of Muslims look at you as a non-Muslim. Let me tell you somehting, I might be one of the very few Muslims who will actually admit that there is a remarkable portion of Muslims (still a minority thuogh) that do support al-Qaeda and their actions. But prejudice against the rest of Muslims due to this is simply wrong and does nothing in order to break the walls between us.

Ima Muslims who prays, fasts and actually read a lot and I dont listen to what anyone says in order not to follow anyone blindly. I wont refer to you as an enemy of mine. maybe 90% of my friends are Muslims are most surely no one of them will refer to you as an enemy of theirs. Why? because we simply have education; would the poeple in Dubai fight you for who you are or support al Qaeda? no because they are civilized. Brain washed poeple who are mostly uneducated people regard you as an enemy because its easy to brainwash them but again how much are those? u find them in some rural places in maybe afghanistan, pakistan, syria, jordan and the rest of the Islamic world, but again they are a minority in their communities. I would like to speak more with you so plz send me ur email.

Pop on July 17, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    @pop – Unfortunately one uneducated brainwashed Muslim with a backpack full of explosives creates enough mayhem for many.
    I don’t see those civilized, educated followers of Islam you refer to making any progress towards controlling this “minority” who are programmed to carry out these evil deeds in your places of worship! This is documented information.

    Rochelle on July 17, 2012 at 4:11 pm

@Rochelle I really would like to invite you to any Islamic country that is not controlled by a crazy government and see how u will be treated in a really freidnly way and face no dicrimination.

dont u think we are being hurt by those extremists?!? they blow up places here too and innocent poeple die here too! who said we’re not working to stop them? we cant stop them by military so we stop them by educating their children and putting them through schools and universities. Im Lebanese, and Rafic Hariri, a Muslim worked a lot to stop them. He spent over 60,000 students to universities in and out of Lebanon for free just to stop them.

The thing is, i come often to this website; i agree about some stuff and i dont agree on some; but what hurts more are the comments and the prejudice that i see. my mum is a Muslim too, whos veiled, she was not forced to do this; but the thing is, we also find it weird when the bortherhood guys in Egypt made nicrophelia (however u spell that) legal, do u think the Muslims wanted this? you talk about it as if we live here on camels and fight each other with swords all day long; thats why i really invite u to come here and see how things are really different; i live 15 minutes away from the AUB (american univeristy of beirut) where hundreds of foreign Christian students and teachers live in/ regarding Dubai, its the same case, the same thing in Doha, Istanbul, and Jordan.

we need to break the barriers between us and not build them; i once saw on TV that a guy from the US said that “we have a nig*** in the white house”; does this mean i should say Americans are racists?! ofcrs not; and the same thing is here. U know, i have a lot of American channels here and when i watch the news they put about my country on TV i feel like im wathcing news about afghanistan or something; then i meet an afghani friend and he told me that when he sees his country on TV its only the negative that is shown! search for urself and see the truth; go to yahoo answers and ask in the UAE or lebanon section if u as a Christian or Jewish American would be unwelcomed in Beirut or Abu Dhabi…

Pop on July 17, 2012 at 4:52 pm

Well Pop
Your so called educated muslims are the worst sort and the most die hard of jihadist and you can deny until your blue in the face, it still does NOT change the fact that we infidels will be at war with you muslims soon enough and nobody is going to care which brand of islam you subscribe too, it is not going to matter to us because we infidels are going to give you the Serbian option. When all hell breaks loose in the mid and far east and spreads to Europe the lamposts will be filled with the muslims and their Quisling leftist enablers. We infidels will be playing a whole new game called cowboys and muslims or in the European venacular a Crusades on steroids.

Drakken on July 17, 2012 at 10:20 pm

Pop, I didn’t deny that the Wahabis have managed to, thanks to the Saud owned Aramco billions, penetrate and influence dawa activities worldwide. All I was disagreeing w/ was your calling all Muslim fanatics as Wahabis.

There are 2 things about Muslims that have convinced me that the overwhelming majority of them are intolerant. First of all, look at all the Islamic countries there are worldwide – about 50 of them (exlude OIC members like Guyana, Suriname, Cameroon, Mozambique that are only 5% Muslim but for whatever reason have chosen to join the OIC). In all of them, there are either no non-Muslim minorities, or wherever there are, they are at the receiving end of persecution. Whether it’s Mali or Nigeria or Sudan or Egypt or Syria or Iraq or Lebanon or Iran or Pakistan or Bangladesh or Malaysia or Indonesia.

If it was just a random case in a few select countries, I wouldn’t have drawn that conclusion. But when it’s true about all Muslim countries, and is coupled w/ the restive nature of Muslim minorities in India, Myanmar, Thailand, Russia, China, Europe, US, Australia, and other places, there is enough statistical weightage to conclude that in general. Combine that w/ actual material in various Islamic texts – be it the Quran, Tafseers, Hadiths (yeah, I know about the classification of Hadiths), Sira, Umdat al Saliq and so on that endorses such behavior (do you really want to invite us to dig up Quranic verses and what they say about Infidels?), and you have a complete picture, w/ cause and effect.

Also, combine all of the above w/ individual Muslim outrages in the West, such as honor killings for girls who seemingly stray from Islam, and it explains why people who criticize or condemn Islam/Muslims are not safe, be it from Nazi regimes like the ones in Sudan or Saudi Arabia, or from vigilante Muslims in the West, like those who threatened cartoonist Molly Norris for her ‘Everybody draw Mohammed’ day contest. That poor girl now lives undercover.

As for yourself, what you describe is what Hugh Fitzgerald once called your ‘own private Islam’. Yeah, you follow the 5 pillars all right, but in general, there is a 6th pillar (which you do not follow), which is jihad (oh, and spare us the ‘inner struggles’ doohickey). As for your 90% of friends who are ‘not our enemies’, the same had been said at one time or another about people like Meher Hawash, John Walker Lindh, David Hicks, Jose Padilla, Richard Reid, Hassan Akbar and so on. And they came from a wide variety of backgrounds – White, Black, Hispanic, Arab, Bosnian (the Salt Lake Mall shooter), Iranian (Taheriazar), Albanian, Yemeni and so on. Very random, but a common thread – all Muslims.

I disagree that we have to break down any barriers – if anything, we need to build more to protect ourselves from Muslims in general. As you said, you may not be among those who wish us dead. But guess what, the practice of taquiyya is well known among Muslims (and no, it’s not restricted to Shia), and for Infidels, there is no reliable way of distinguishing a genuinely harmless Muslim from a stealth Jihadi. If you were in a room in front of a table w/, say, 100 coffee cups, and you knew that even one of them contained cyanide, but you had no idea which one, would you even dare to risk it? Let alone if a random percentage of them had it? Why should Infidels play Russian Roulette w/ their lives and that of their fellow citizens?

I do have an interesting litmus test for you. Let’s say you have a sister or daughter or neice or cousin who falls in love w/ an Infidel, lets say a Jew, and wants to marry him and convert to Judaism. Would you be:

a) Completely okay w/ it and supportive of it?
b) Not okay w/ it, but let her go her own way?
c) Not okay w/ it, and do what you can to prevent it – including smuggling her back to the Islamic country her family came from?
d) Not okay w/ it, and do everything – including getting her killed – to prevent it from happening?

You needn’t give us the answer. Just toss it around in your mind, and see which ones you’d choose. The option you choose will tell you whether you are indeed as tolerant as you claim to be.

Infidel on July 18, 2012 at 1:12 am

If you base your beliefs on the lies of Muhammad, Kadijah, and Waraqah, then how can anything go right?
Their lies formed a religion (I call it a Mafia) that hurt other people, promoted beheading of villages of people who would not convert to Muhammad’s ways, beastiality, homosexuality, slavery, and many other horrible practices. I see nothing in Islam that could appeal to anyone, yet people love it.
Please read about the early days of Islam. “Muhammad” by Martin Lings is a good start. Lings was a muslim scholar.

Miriam on July 19, 2012 at 8:39 am

Infidel you are very well informed to the dangers of Islam. I can proudly say I am an Infidel as well. Regardless of what sect of Islam any muslim embraces they are all warrior religions. Islam is Nazi Fascism on steroids. When the rest of the world wakes up to this there will be war, but it will be a righteous war removing this cancer upon western civilization.

Canadian Steve on December 11, 2012 at 5:44 am

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