January 6, 2014, - 2:39 pm

Tiger Mom & Hubby: “8 Cultural, Ethnic, Religious Grps Are Superior” – Are You in One of Them?

By Debbie Schlussel

The Chinese “Tiger Mom,” Amy Chua, and her Jewish husband, Jed Rubenfeld, argue in their new book, The Triple Package: How Three Unlikely Traits Explain the Rise and Fall of Cultural Groups in America, that eight cultural, ethnic, and religious groups are superior to the rest in America. They say that Jews, Chinese, Cuban exiles, (Asian) Indians, Iranians, Mormons, Nigerians, and Lebanese Americans are the superior ones, and everyone else is contributing to the downfall of America. And they are, predictably, already under fire. I’m sure they don’t mind because controversy sells books. And, unlike previous, far more substantive authors on the topic, they are liberals, so they’ll get away with it.


Certain ethnic groups have, indeed, shown they have higher IQs than others. That’s not new. Nor is it new that authors who bring this out will be attacked scurrilously. See Drs. Richard J. Herrnstein and Charles Murray and their groundbreaking book, “Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life,” (which said that Asians and Ashkenazic Jews (Jews primarily from Europe) possessed the highest IQs), and Dr. Jason Richwine, who wrote his Harvard dissertation on the inferior IQs of non-European immigrants (particularly Hispanics) and was forced to resign from the Heritage Foundation, under fire from pro-illegal-alien-amnesty Washington Post faux-conservative Jennifer Rubin and FOX News Latino. But facts don’t lie, and no one has ever refuted the findings and data of either Herrnstein/Murray or Richwine.

Yes, there are exceptions–a lot of them. So people shouldn’t be offended by the findings of studies based on a large volume of data. And intelligence and IQ increase among ethnic groups in America (the “Flynn Effect”), while those of others lag. Some of the most sagacious and innovative Americans do not fall into any of these ethnic/religious groups designated by Chua and Rubenfeld. Drs. Thomas Sowell and Benjamin Carson, for instance, are Blacks who are not of Nigerian descent. And there are plenty of Whites–like Bill Gates–who are not in any of Chua’s and Rubenfeld’s chosen eight groups. The Founding Fathers were not in any of these groups, but they were brilliant and incredibly insightful.

I am an Ashkenazic Jew and have a very high IQ (I was a member of MENSA–the 98th percentile IQ society–until I stopped paying the exorbitant dues). And you cannot deny the contributions–inventions, medical advances, business acumen, and intellectual contributions–of Ashkenazic Jews who are less than 2.1% of the American population. While I see many smart and highly educated individuals when I enter my synagogue’s sanctuary, I can show you many dumb Ashkenazic Jews (a good percentage of whom voted for Obama–twice) and plenty of very smart Hispanics. There are many self-identified Hispanics who read this site, and I find their comments erudite. The ones I’ve been in contact with are brilliant.

But Chua and Rubenfeld identify three attributes about the eight groups they cite, which are kind of offensive. They say that the eight groups have three things in common: a superiority complex, insecurity, and impulse control. The superiority complex thing? Well, everyone has that today, in our society which is the most narcissistic and self-esteem-afflicted ever. People watch the Kardashian reality shows and think they are geniuses for the “effort.” The other two things, though–insecurity and impulse control–are useless without a good work ethic, good values, and some sort of common sense.

And while some of the groups Chua and Rubenfeld put in their chosen eight have been shown to have a higher IQ and/or stronger work ethic, as well as values, I can show you two whole American cities that disprove at least the “Lebanese American” claim.

Most of Dearbornistan and Dearbornistan Heights are Lebanese Shi’ite Muslim Hezbollah supporters, and a very high percentage of them are illegally on welfare, AFDC, Bridge Cards/food stamps, and other entitlements. Money laundering, welfare and food stamp fraud, and mortgage fraud are common practices by these “Lebanese Americans.” So are polygamous marriages and mutas–or Islamic legalized prostitution posing as temporary marriages. The cities are dominated by Lebanese American losers and leeches. Clearly, these aren’t the characteristics of “superior Americans.” What Chua and Rubenfeld didn’t have the guts to say is that the “Lebanese Americans” who tend to be productive are usually Christian Lebanese Americans who’ve long been assimilated and have been here a few generations.

Moreover, Helen Thomas a/k/a Helen tHAMAS was a (Christian) Lebanese American. Would you include her among superior Americans?

Only if you’re a dumbass. (She’s definitely squat in the middle of Superiorly Ugly Americans–on the inside and out–though.)

I haven’t read Chua and Rubenfeld’s book. They aren’t scientists, and their book relies not on studies and hard data but on anecdotal evidence and their conclusions regarding income, occupational status, test scores, and other similar socio-economic indicators to single out and elevate these eight groups.

I may read this “new” book, though I’m sure it won’t top the pioneering, much-unduly-pilloried, and superior work of Herrnstein (who, sadly, passed away before his book was published) and Murray on this. Or even come close. That’s whom you should be reading to get some real insight on this topic, not a trendy liberal couple who made a name for themselves through the “Tiger Mom” fad.

Get Yours . . .

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68 Responses

These two people (Rubenfeld and Chua)are two self-important twits.

First, her list left out Koreans, Vietnamese, and Filipinos. Many are scientists, economists, physicians etc. To place the Chinese above other Asians is arrogant, to say the least (Note: I am married to a Filipina Jewish woman who keeps me on my toes!)

I do note that certain cultures, particularly the Jewish and Asian cultures, emphasize education more than many other groups. However, look at any third or fourth generation American, and you will see that no matter what “group” they are from, most have become intellectually lazy.

I would rather judge a person for what they have accomplished, than what “group” they are from.

Putting it succinctly, I believe that Rubenfeld and Chua are a couple of arrogant twits. Neither are scientists. Neither have changed the world, invented any device that changes the course of mankind, and neither have made any positive change in the world of any notable kind.

JEG: Amen, Bruthah!–to most of what you said. However, having lived and worked in Wisconsin and having worked in community service among the Hmong (Vietnamese) immigrants, you cannot generalize that many Vietnamese are successful. Some are, some are not. Though they are Asian and Vietnamese, many among the Hmong are very poor and do not rise above it. It all depends. But, like you said, I do not judge based on what group you are from, but what you do. DS

Jonathan E. Grant on January 6, 2014 at 2:53 pm

    Deb, Hmong are not Vietnamese. They are a separate ethnic group that migrated down from China in the 18th and 19th centuries. They ended up in Vietnam, Laos (where most of them settled), and Thailand. They speak a separate language and have a very different culture from the Nam people.

    Jonathan E. Grant on January 6, 2014 at 3:30 pm

Exactly Jon, being American is distinctly about individual accomplishment and Debbie hit it on the head with, “good work ethic, good values, and some sort of common sense”, and that is up to each individual, regardless of the ethnic group they are identified as being a part of.

Dave Chavez on January 6, 2014 at 3:12 pm

While there are exceptions to the IQ Bell curve that Herrnstein and Murray published (outliers such as Walter Williams, Shelby Steele, and Thomas Sowell), blacks and hispanics as a group have an average IQ much lower than the white’s group average. This explains our current violent crime statistics. The bottom line is that IQ is destiny, that is why Western Civilization has contributed vastly more knowledge to humanity than any other group.

Its pathetic that low IQ scum run across our southern border and receive free benefits. Its pathetic that the morons in Congre want to give these people amnesty. The will contribute nothing to our society. Stop EBT, SNAP, TANF and other giveaways to these parasites. Stop affirmative action, quotas and set asides for those that will never compete because of their IQ. Liberals constantly espouse the theory of evolution, yet they never want to allow its consequences. This is how they guarantee their power: buying votes.

FriscoKid on January 6, 2014 at 3:13 pm

“I am an Ashkenazic Jew and have a very high IQ (I was a member of MENSA–the 99th percentile IQ society–until I stopped paying the exorbitant dues).”

I have been in MENSA for a long time and have never had to pay any dues.

EC: HUH? That cannot be true. MENSA has dues you are required to pay and they are very expensive (when I first joined they were nearly $45 per year and now they are much more). I recently got a letter asking me to come back, and they wanted $100 for nearly 1.5 years (to finish off the current year and include a full following year). I doubt you are in MENSA. They don’t send you a membership card and two monthly magazines and a directory for free. Per the MENSA Constitution: “CONDITIONS OF MEMBERSHIP
1. As conditions of membership, members must: . . .
d. pay the dues as set or modified from time to time by their national Mensa Committee,
or by the International Board of Directors if they are Direct International Members.” DS

Eric Chin on January 6, 2014 at 3:17 pm

    It is common for those who disagree with the posts to brag (in most cases falsely) about having high IQs. Remember Joshua with the 160 IQ? And, of course, Italkit.

    Little Al on January 6, 2014 at 4:42 pm

      It is not false, Al. Sorry if you don’t like it. I left MENSA for similar reasons to Debbie.

      Meira on January 7, 2014 at 5:24 am

        Meira, for someone with Mensa-level intelligence, either your reading comprehension is poor or your emotion trumps your intelligence.

        I said it was ‘common’ for dissidents on this blog to speak about high IQs, in most cases falsely. I didn’t say all cases, I said most cases. I will stand by what I said.

        Re ‘teaching to the test’? Anyone with half a mind knows that this is an excuse for mediocrity. If the teachers are dumb, and the students unmotivated, dumb, or what have you, the kids will mess up the tests. Teachers on the whole are afraid of objective indices of evaluation so they came up with this canard. It has about as much legitimacy as the prior one about tests being culturally biased. One theory after another — the only constant is the fear of objective standards of measurement.

        And you better not let the women’s libbers hear you talk about your theories of intelligence by patrimony. Look what happened to Larry Summers. In a few years, the way this country is going, expressing theories like that might get someone imprisoned.

        Little Al on January 7, 2014 at 7:07 pm

          Al, you cited “Italkit” as an example. Did you forget that was one of my stupid attempts at finding a screen i.d?

          You misunderstood what I was saying about patrimony but hey! If it gives feminists fits, bring it on. I certainly don’t identify with them. What I was saying was that Judaism counts Jewishness thru the mother not the father. Ashkenazim have Jewish DNA from their fathers, so presumably that’s where Ashkenazim get there smarts but that’s not how a dyed in the wool Jew would see it. They would say the mothers are converts so therefore there is no JEWISH DNA link to their IQ’s. The idea is based on not being sure of who the father is, so Halacha keeping Jews don’t count paternity as proof of Jewishness.

          Meira on January 8, 2014 at 4:52 am

          Also, Al, you make a good point about emotion. I’m not totally burned out but it’s been a rough ride. I’m sure I could do better in that area and that’s the sort of thing I was thinking about when I said a lot of things bring to bear on “success” not just IQ. There is also an Asperger’s factor which does cloud comprehension at times. I’ve noticed since I got into my 60’s, that has dropped to some extent. I actually did better on the logic part of the LSAT than I did the reading section. That is a reversal of earlier life test performance. We age, things don’t work as efficiently. I HATE to read large amounts of text online. I find it hard to follow but that’s largely an eye problem. Nonetheless, sometimes meaning gets lost.

          Meira on January 8, 2014 at 4:57 am

    There are always exceptions to the rules. Have you ever asked them to waive your membership fee?

    Eric Chin on January 6, 2014 at 5:17 pm

      Not in MENSA, Eric. I mean, when you’re in the top 1% you ARE already the exception so rules are rules. My issue was zip codes. I lived in a part of NJ that was a few minutes thru the Lincoln tunnel to Manhattan and even Brooklyn. But they wouldn’t let me join the NYC chapter unless my NJ chapter head let me. Well, The guy never answered my calls and he was in some god forsaken boonie that would take me well over an hour to get to and NYC wouldn’t take me unless NJ released me. All these brilliant minds couldn’t look at a map and figure out that Central NJ was pretty distant and hard to reach in those pre I 287 days from the Big 3 Northern counties and that we had a much more NY focus anyway in terms of activities and interests. A few years after my brief membership, they had to lower the bar to take the top 3% because there weren’t enough 1-2%ers interested in their pseudo-intellectual posing.

      Meira on January 7, 2014 at 2:23 pm

    EC, the problem is that there is an implicit generalization in your 3:17 post. You are generalizing from your statement that you never had to pay dues. The suggestion is that just as you did not have to pay dues, Debbie did not necessarily have to pay dues. Why else would you phrase your comment as you did?

    Then, when Debbie nailed you, you claimed to be an exception, But even agreeing, arguendo, that you were an exception, it is an exception that proves the rule. Most people aren’t exceptions. Therefore, most people have to pay dues, and Debbie’s comment is valid.

    With such silliness, you are definitely too dumb to be in Mensa, even if membership extended to the top 50%.

    Little Al on January 6, 2014 at 7:51 pm

    Eric and Debbie:

    I recall there were dues when I joined. Once I joined, I realized that I was going to do something with my life and not simply discuss my genius, so I let membership slide. The purpose of Mensa is to join and get your card (I have lived in 2 hemispheres, so my card is long gone), and then forget about it, unless you go into Neurology or Psychology research on people with high IQs.

    Of course, like you, Debbie, I was a teen when I joined. It’s a good thing to do if you’re having a bad day.

    In 1979 my ACT composite was 33, my SAT math was 690, and my Verbal was 730. TCU gave me a full tuition scholarship based on these scores and my position in my huge graduating high school class, and from TCU I took the MCAT in 1983, with a score composite of 68. (Higher than Harvard’s Average).

    I recall these minutiae, because MDs are good at that.

    But, Debbie, you’d be a genius whatever your scores were. The Jewish gene pool lost out when you didn’t marry and have kids, because I looked at your appearances on Maher, and you were beauty and brains, all in one package.

    But Hashem has his purposes for us all.

    Occam's Tool on April 16, 2014 at 11:20 am

I can show you many dumb Ashkenazic Jews (a good percentage of whom voted for Obama–twice)

ha ha, Debbie got a dig in, too funny.

@ Eric, better come correct, get your facts straight, you must not know whose blog you are on! Lol

Big D on January 6, 2014 at 4:26 pm

In a way affirmative action is symbolic of the whole problem with the drift to the left in this country.

Ironic what happened to Jason Richwine. The Heritage Foundation, which pretends to be conservative bounced him. His dissertion was almost immediately posted on line, and as you point out, his methodology has not been challenged effectively by anyone.

But the point of affirmative action is to aid those individuals and groups that are too stupid to make it on their own. The premise is that we are all equal, and the Government and those it pressures will do everything possible to enforce such equality, when it does not exist (i.e. all the time.)

And if conservatives cannot challenge even affirmative action, how can they possibly challenge the broader application of the same principle, i.e. the leveling of society under Government auspices?

I have a more charitable view of the current authors. Yes the book is anecdotal, and there are a number of flaws, such as those pointed out in the post and the comments. But, in general, even though they wrote it primarily for selfish reasons, they hit a raw nerve, and are on track in general terms. They have raised a question that is virtually taboo to raise today. I guess the test will be whether they hold on to their current position for any length of time, given the tremendous pressure they will be subjected to.

The problem is that when issues like this aren’t raised by serious scholars, or only very rarely, it opens the way for less competent people, like the current authors to raise them.

Little Al on January 6, 2014 at 4:55 pm

    This book is pop culture. However, there are underlying facts of culture to support their “Findings.” Generalizations? Yes. However, the book will call attention to the important fact that we are CREATED equal, but that does not mean that we are ALL “Equal” – as according to liberal dogma. When my son in law was studying for his Master’s Degree, he would spend his weekends in the library of a prestigious university. Weekend after weekend, he would tell me that he was the only Caucasian studying in the library. Everyone else was either Oriental or Indian. The realization that education trumps hanging out at the mall is paramount to the survival of our society. The “Lowinfomofos” believe that reality shows are “Reality.” Too “Stoopid” to realize that they are roughly scripted. Reading history, studying for the future trumps watching the moronic “Housewives” show. Chua and her husband are bringing a message that is food for thought.

    Victoryman on January 7, 2014 at 9:19 am

How come Debbie is one of the very few people who has the courage to even discuss this book and this subject ??
Why can’t we discuss this subject–especially when there is scientific evidence (such as the Herrnstein and Murray book or Dr Watson’s discussion of Africans and intelligence) ???

The truth is the truth !! For the record I also have an Ashkenazic Jewish ancestor (my Great Grandma), but my other Great Grandma was an American Indian. I also have Irish, Italian, and Armenian ancestors. I also have a very high IQ and several advanced degrees. Now do I have a high IQ because of my ancestor’s nationalities (my genes) or was it also a result of a wonderful childhood and having very intelligent parents who constantly stimulated my mind ?? Did my Mom always making sure that I ate healthy food with plenty of vegetables and little junk help ??
I think that all of the above helped. Still, I think that this should be discussed and researched. Imagine if they could find the genes that cause high intelligence and could “turn them on” in people that currently have them turned off (and have a low IQ). This could change the World and all of human society !! But no, this subject is forbidden because it is not PC and may hurt people’s feelings.

jimmyPx on January 6, 2014 at 5:09 pm

    I think it’s all of the above but I also think the tests are skewed to those with a broader knowledge base and exposure beyond their native culture. I’ve known many smart people but because of their limited backgrounds, don’t perform well on standardized tests. This is not supposed to happen but it does. I remember on question on the MENSA pre-test. It was supposed to be an encrypted sentence and it was presumed one would use standard code breaking kets but I was never into codes and didn’t have the time to fuss with it. HOWEVER, it was actually something written in the Cyrillic alphabet and because I had been trying to learn Russian, I was able to figure it out from knowing the alphabet. I lost interest in Russian but I know I got the answer right because of my interest in exploring it. I come from an area that is highly blue collar and immigrant. I have noticed that the college offspring of these folks often have a harder time correctly pronouncing difficult and unusual words. Or even some no so difficult ones but polysyllabic. “Interesting” often comes out “inSTRESTing,” among others. This is not a matter of IQ but cultural reinforcement that makes the person sound less intelligent.

    Meira on January 7, 2014 at 2:36 pm

Actually, as I recall, The Bell Curve made clear two noteworthy sets of findings, regarding means and regarding standard deviations. The latter related to sex differences: while the mean was the same between sexes, men a much greater standard deviation. This helps explain why most of the idiots and most of the geniuses are men.

skzion on January 6, 2014 at 5:12 pm

    Yes, that’s what got Summers in trouble, speaking about larger standard deviations for men.

    Little Al on January 6, 2014 at 5:45 pm

      Speaking any non-PC truths in today’s society will always get you into trouble…….

      Victoryman on January 7, 2014 at 9:22 am

      I assume that s a sarcastic remark.

      Summers got in trouble for actually stating that there are differences between men and women. Who knew this was a debatable issue?

      FriscoKid on January 7, 2014 at 12:52 pm

Of course part of the problem discussing these issues today stems from the prolonged existence of segregation and its accompanying abuses.

The eugenics movement was also very widespread until the 30s, and the discrediting of that movement, which was dominant internationally for many years, has also made it more difficult to discuss these issues today.

Liberals take advantage of this, and lurking in the background, ready to be thrown at anyone who raises questions such as those raised by Debbie and the authors of this book, are the accusations of racism, given seeming credibility by the past existence of segregation, the eugenics movement, and, of course, Hitler.

Part of the reason for the demise of the eugenics movement was the racial aspects of Hitler and Nazi Germany (and the fight against Hitler also indirecty helped challenge segregation), and there is an implicit, though undeserved, association between those challenging affirmative action and ‘intellectual equality’ today, and Naziism.

Little Al on January 6, 2014 at 5:20 pm

Some positives and some negatives. Tiger mom has treated her children poorly. She never let them explore. She always wanted them to do what she wanted. Some things she did bordered on abuse.

Many Asians lack passion and imagination by her style of parenting. I have even seen children resent their parents for the style she advocates.

Glen benjamin on January 6, 2014 at 5:23 pm

“They say that Jews, Chinese, Cuban exiles, (Asian) Indians, Iranians, Mormons, Nigerians, and Lebanese Americans are the superior ones, and everyone else is contributing to the downfall of America.”

Hm. My main objection is that it’s nonsensical to ignore such things as identification with Islam in assessing the likelihood of causing the downfall of America. This is separate from the whole issue of IQ. The justification for generalizing from individual- or family-level economic success to the success of the economy or the polity overall is also apparently not being taken seriously.

These are no empirical social scientists (but we already knew that).

Then there’s the whole idea that if some mix of people’s is good in one proportion, it will doubly good if the proportion is doubled. This too is dumb. In fact, there is some reason to believe that our system was designed to harness the (relatively) unintelligent to counter nonsense from the so-called intellectual/urban class.

skzion on January 6, 2014 at 5:26 pm

You know what else is approximately 20yrs old, in regards to I.Q, I remember in the mid 90s or so, California, I believe it was centered around Oakland, but these self appointed Black leaders began the demand to change the language in the SAT tests because it was culturally biased. Talking about dumbing down America.

I remember back then thinking, learn the god damn language, unbelievable. How could these so-called leaders and intellectuals argue the point, when we have people that have learned English as a second language and have no problem with the SAT, yet the people they are trying to represent have spoke English all their lives. Insane.

Now we have the issue I believe in Philly, where the fire department lowered the eligibility requirements for the entrance test to 60% (for black folk). I don’t know if blacks were whining or if liberal whites believed they were helping, but this is pathetic. I don’t want a D student trying to resuscitate me. I.Qs will remain low with behavior like this. This crap just reinforces bigotry and the belief that blacks are mentally helpless. 60% is disgraceful.

Big D on January 6, 2014 at 5:32 pm

And, ironically the teachers’ unions and other liberals hate standardized tests for students because of the evils of ‘teaching to the test’.

Duh, what about those poor educators who teach to the the Bar Exam, the CPA exam, etc.?

Little Al on January 6, 2014 at 5:51 pm

    Al, that is not a valid comparison. Elementary education is not only supposed to cram your head with data. It is supposed to teach you how to think and synthesize the data you acquire. When you teach to the test before College, you are simply programming living computers to acquire data and spit it back. There is no critical thinking involved. It is hoped tha by the time one reaches the Bar or CPA exam, one has learned to think and apply specific knowledge and having taken the LSAT and done well, I can tell you that THINKING is part of the process of doing well. The Bar and CPA exams, as well as the Medical Boards are to test specific knowledge that is required for the candidate to be able to practice his/her profession properly and without injury to those s/he serves.
    Kids in school need skills, of course, and they need to be tested to see if they have acquired those skills but in districts that “teach to the test” too much time is spent on drilling and rehashing info that the good students have gotten and are bored to tears with while not learning anything beyond the minimum requirement and not having the time to investigate KNOWLEDGE on their own.

    Meira on January 7, 2014 at 2:44 pm

The whole premise is wrong in one vital parameter: the cultural milieu in which these supposedly superior and successful groups succeed was uniquely the creation of America and could not have been reproduced anywhere else or at any other place in time.

Aside from Jews and Mormons, all of these superior groups’ native lands are hellholes that people are desperately clawing to get out of to come live in America.

DS_ROCKS! on January 6, 2014 at 6:09 pm

Mr. and Mrs. Chou (come on everyone, you know she rules the roost) are two privileged people, who has wealthy educated parents that were able to provide them with everything and what did they become? Law professors, a profession I hold in rather low esteem. With all of their gifts, why didn’t they become scientists? Patent Attorneys? Artists? Financial analysts? Or even garbage collectors, a job which, which, unlike that of law professors, at least serves a useful societal purpose?

What contributions did these two make to society?

Jonathan E. Grant on January 6, 2014 at 6:37 pm

    JEG: Lol.

    skzion on January 6, 2014 at 7:09 pm

What can I say?
If they’re the new saviors I don’t think we’ll get saved.

Frankz on January 7, 2014 at 12:08 am

“What contributions did these two make to society?”

I know! The only thing they’ve managed to do is raise two girls who are also going into law. I read her absolutely foolish book “battle hymn of the tiger mother.” I was entertained, but her absolute lack of introspection is sad and pathetic. She seems to think there are only two ways to raise kids:
Her way (“The Chinese Way”) which involves yelling at your kids if they get an abysmal 98% on a calculus exam
letting them smoke weed at age 8.

Not much in between.

It really is a shame that she didn’t get her fathers brains – as an electrical engineer the Chua circuit is extremely interesting to study and allows one to see chaos in action.

Sam on January 7, 2014 at 12:34 am

Far more important than which particular groups do well for themselves is where the culture is as a whole because some groups always do well for themselves but if the culture is wrong then nothing can be learned from their success.
That’s part of the reason many of the “superior” groups listed immigrated in from another culture in the first place.
So do I think Amy Chua and Jed Rubenfeld are capable of drawing meaningful lessons even from their own success whatever that may be?
No, not really.
This is just another silly self help book to cash in on aspirational wannabes.

Frankz on January 7, 2014 at 12:56 am

Hey I am slacker and like that role. However I have banged 3 of those types in that group. Now I feel like banging at least one of each that group. Wonder who has the higher IQ then?

The Chosen One on January 7, 2014 at 1:37 am

skzion, agree w/ ya! They left out the association of Islam w/ the likelihood of causing the decline of the West b’cos they’re probably scared of death threats, but the presence of 2 Muslim groups in that list undermines its credibility.

As Debbie pointed out, the Lebanese Americans would probably be the Christians who’ve distanced themselves from their larger community’s Judeophobic activities. As for Iranians, the only Iranians I’d put in that bracket are those who’ve left Islam. In Sunnyvale, CA, I’ve seen a couple of Iranian churches, so there are a good number of them who’ve converted either to Christianity, or are Jews or Zoroastrians to begin w/.

Infidel on January 7, 2014 at 2:22 am

Far more interesting is the fact that college educated (presumably higher IQ than average) marry only college educated. Eventually, this will create two distinct strata, a higher average IQ upper income group and a lower average IQ poorer income group.

adam on January 7, 2014 at 2:37 am

    Adam, ‘college educated’ today does not mean the same as ‘college educated’ prior to the 60s. During the first part of the 20th century, I would have agreed, with some modifications, with what you are saying.

    Little Al on January 7, 2014 at 2:47 am

      Al and Adam. Both my parents were physicians but as I say in my comment below, written earlier, my mother was no genius. She was above average and failed the MENSA test. My Dad was truly brilliant, definitely a genius but my mother was a hard worker and plugged away at it til she got it. So they had equal educations but their IQ’s were miles apart. It caused a lot of problems I don’t need to go into here.

      Meira on January 7, 2014 at 2:48 pm

How can you publish this scurrilous eugenic tripe about Ashkenazim having higher IQs? Tell that to Nobel winner Dr. Rita Levi-Montalcini. However, IQ’s are meaningless in terms of success. There are many factors that go into success besides pure intellectual ability. I am an underachiever. I still don’t really know who I am and by any normal standard, particularly regarding “career,” I am a failure. However I not only got into MENSA, I am in the top 1% of the population. I accept this about myself. Some of it was because of sever dysfunction and abuse from my mother and the interesting part of that is that she FAILED the MENSA test even tho she was a “successful” physician. Even tho her IQ was not MENSA standard, it was up there. As a human being, she wasn’t much and as a mother, she was a disaster. I don’t see her as being successful. She nuked her marriage after promising my father she would retire once he got his practice up and running and then changed her mind. I wouldn’t be her for all her achievements if you paid me. I also take responsibility for not being “successful” on my own. i should have tried harder to overcome parts of my past but OTOH, I never really had “career” aspirations. I was happy to be a traditional woman as a wife and mother.

Meira on January 7, 2014 at 5:22 am

    Meira: please don’t think of yourself as a failure. From my observations, it seems to me that people who are very intelligent put a lot of pressure on themselves, and at times I think that they are overly introspective. You seem to have come to the realization that a “successful” career does not equal a happy life, so give yourself some credit for being wise enough to know that raising children is an important job. A meaningful life is not a failure!

    Valentina on January 7, 2014 at 5:46 pm

      Thank you Valentina, you really nailed my personality. On top of it, I’m an artist so can we say “perfectionist?” haha.

      Meira on January 8, 2014 at 5:02 am

Who has changed the world for the better? That is the Talmudic Jewish measure of success, not the size of one’s wallet or the amount of education one has.

I think it is fair to say that Salk, Sabin, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Mother Teresa were successes. The man who invented Xerox. The various people who created antibiotics. Van Gogh, who never sold a painting in his life. Rabbi Schneerson. Pope John (the one who preceded Pope Paul VI).

Most of us fail at meeting the Talmudic standard, including Mr. and Mrs. Chua (again, Rubenfeld is the woman in the relationship, in my opinion).

Jonathan E. Grant on January 7, 2014 at 9:46 am

nature v. nurture. an old argument. meanwhile, such a genius you don’t have to be to make a really decent living in america. right now, folks who work on boilers are doing pretty darn good. better than those college grads with degrees in sociology.

bikerrich on January 7, 2014 at 9:53 am

I took a test one time that the average MENSA member finished in two hours with a passing score. I finished it in 15 minutes with a perfect score while I was driving. MENSA, schmensa. Nothing personal, peeps, IQ is a big help, but not everything. Now, I’m just an old, stupid white guy.

Pray Hard on January 7, 2014 at 10:11 am

“What contributions did these two make to society?”

“I know! The only thing they’ve managed to do is raise two girls who are also going into law.”

This is so true. This reminds me of an article I read in USA Today a few years ago. Every year USA Today has their top High School students of the year. Each kid says that they are going to go into medicine, engineering, teaching, etc.

Well they had an article looking at “where they are today” for these students. Were they great engineers, scientists, doctors or teachers ?? NO–90% of them were lawyers suing people !!!
What does that say about our society that our best and brightest become lawyers ?? Even Debbie who is so brilliant and could have done so much became a lawyer. I’m not slamming her (indeed if I lived in Michigan I would want her as my attorney), but what does this say about our society and what we produce ??
Hint the same thing happened to ancient Athens and what happened to them ???

jimmyPx on January 7, 2014 at 10:20 am

I wonder what percentage of the 8 groups cited vote Democrat? It’s not the lack of IQ that’s bringing down America. It’s leftist politicians and the ethnic and racial groups that support them so they can receive goodies from the government, along with the p*ssy RINO’s who go along to get along.

Some of the smartest people I have known do not have high IQ’s or a college education. And many of the dumbest people I’ve known or have observed have apparently high IQ’s and college+ degrees. Just because you’re intelligent doesn’t mean you’re smart.

Years ago, a female Asian elementary school classmate of my son came in 2nd place in a math competition. She was crying because she did not take 1st place. We tried to console her, but she was crying because her mother was apparently going to severely discipline her for not winning first place. Her mother had told her not to come home if she didn’t win 1st place. A few years ago, an Asian father was so upset with his daughter – under the age of 18 – because she was failing some subjects that he packed her up in his car, drove her to another township, and dropped her off with her clothes, saying he had disowned her. He did this in the middle of winter and gave her no money. He was arrested. Apparently, that’s what they did in the old country from which the father had moved to enjoy America. Moron.

I have ancestors on my mother’s side who were Ashkenazic Jews from southern Germany. However, my math ability comes from my father, a Scots-Irish American.

P.S. I’m sorry if this is un-PC, but I have notice a lack of driving ability among Asian drivers. And I am routinely exposed to NJ and NY drivers, who drive as if they’re unconscious or having an epileptic seizure.

Concerned Citizen on January 7, 2014 at 1:20 pm

    Well, CC, I’m not denying there are brilliant Ashkenazim. Jon Grant named several but I can’t claim any inheritance of brilliance from Ashkenazim since I am Sephardic so all my MENSA smarts come from that background. Why am I an underachiever? I never figured it out and in my 68th year, there’s no point in doing so. I simply own what I am and go on from there.

    By the way, recent studies show that Ashkenazim are patrilineal meaning their Jewish DNA comes from their father’s lines and that their mothers were European non-Jews who converted. That’s perfectly ok because a convert is a Jew but when discussing nature and genetics, the picture isn’t so clear for Ashkenazim. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/09/science/ashkenazi-origins-may-be-with-european-women-study-finds.html?_r=0

    Meira on January 7, 2014 at 2:58 pm

Any takers on who wears the balls in that household?

IceNoMore on January 7, 2014 at 5:34 pm

It would seem that the Chua-Rosenfeld couple is a smarter, academic version of Michelle and Jesse Malkin. And despite her small size, Mrs. Malkin completely dominates that relationship. What is it with nice Jewish men who marry dominant Asian females? Is it some fetish?

S: So you are saying that Jed Rubinfeld writes and instructs his wife on everything, and she’s just a dumbass plagiarist? Puh-leeze. Don’t insult Chua and Rubinfeld by the comparison with that dummy and her peckerless wife Jesse. DS

Seek on January 7, 2014 at 7:08 pm

    I don’t know what’s up with that Seek. I saw this at my first command in the Navy. Men Jewish or otherwise married to dominant Asian females. Also if the woman was Hawaiian you could forget it. I saw grown men who commanded sailors on the ship get ruled by their wives. It was too funny.

    Ken B on January 7, 2014 at 7:56 pm

I’ve done some quick searching on the web, and it seems that most “reviews” are summaries of someone else’s summary of someone else’s summary. I would not willingly sentence Debbie to read this book, and I fully expect that it is dumb for the reasons mentioned already, but I am a bit uneasy nonetheless.

OT, what is all this about Chinese superiority? I don’t get it. The Chinese haven’t exactly impressed for hundreds of years, and even then, their culture was operating on fumes. China has never produced what we would call even a half-way decent system of government. Its people seem content with tyranny even now. Most of today’s Chinese “innovation” comes from spying and industrial theft. The place shoots prisoners to harvest organs. Creativity is simply not a very important feature of Chinese culture. With such huge numbers, there will always be creators, but I’d say the Chinese lag far behind the West generally. In fact, they lag far behind Japan as well.

skzion on January 7, 2014 at 8:28 pm

I will say a few words in defense of Mensa. These are my personal views only, and I am not speaking as an official representative of Mensa.

As far as testing, there are any of about 200 tests that a person can use to qualify for membership. Many of them are tests that have been taken during the course of peoples’ education or professional development. Our national website indicates a number of these tests. If someone wants to use another test, he or she can discuss this with the appropriate Mensa staff. Since we want to increase our membership, we are reasonably accommodating. We do not discriminate on the basis of race, nationality, ethnic background, political belief or any other non-objective criterion.

Mensa has hundreds of chapters, and people frequently transfer from chapter to chapter. While membership is generally based on geographical area, exceptions can be made. Of course I don’t know what happened in Meira’s specific case, but I am aware of cases where people can preference one chapter over another. Members can always contact national representatives if a problem cannot be solved locally.

One of our aims is to function as a social organization. Many members join for such social aspects as dinners, field trips, socials, lectures, games nights, and regional get-togethers. While I am sure there are some who join for boasting rights, most of the members I know are fairly reticent about their membership because they know that Mensa membership almost automatically stirs up unjustified antagonism on nothing but the existence of the membership itself.

Mensa also supports charitable activities related to intelligence, such as scholarships. We also sponsor research into issues dealing with intelligence, and regularly organize conferences and symposia dealing with these issues.

I am not aware of any instances of ‘lowering the bar’ for admission, nor were any of the other members I spoke to. In fifteen years of membership, I have never heard of such a thing.

Our dues are $70 a year. We are a volunteer organization, and are not subsidized by anyone, aside from a few minor contributions and some bequests. Our dues barely cover our expenses. These expenses include a national monthly publication, and monthly publications for more than 100 chapters. We are converting as much as possible to paperless communication, but some members want hard copy magazines. Our leadership is geographically spread out, and elected at regular intervals by our membership, one member, one vote. Since we are a volunteer organization, we do pay reasonable travel expenses for elected leaders to attend national conferences to further the aims of our organization.

The dues also cover a national administrative staff that puts out our newsletter, oversees continuity and expansion of membership, markets the organization, and helps arrange national meetings and conferences of and for the membership. The dues are also used to pay for the activities of local organizations including meeting halls, outside speakers and expenses incurred by members for carrying out and organizing our activities. Budgets are available for membership inspection on our website at all times.

While we encourage members to take out long term memberships, dues are generally for a period of one year, and must be renewed annually to maintain membership. People wouldn’t continue to remain members if they weren’t pleased with the organization.

Mensa takes no political positions. We have Republicans, Democrats, libertarians, socialists, and almost everything else you can imagine.

I invite any of your readers to visit our website, us.mensa.org, to learn more about our organization.

Isabelle Sutka on January 7, 2014 at 9:14 pm

    Isabelle, I took the test in 1972 maybe early 73. Although I resigned over the zip code stupidity, I was still getting the newsletters for a couple of years. I definitely remember, and maybe it was in the news too, that they were not getting enough qualified candidates restricting membership to the top 2% so they dropped it to the top 3%. Maybe it’s changed now, but the structure was that they assigned your chapter by zip code. As I said, in theory I could change but I could never reach the top guy in my chapter and I needed for him to sign off on the transfer. National kept passing me back to local and Debbie is right about rejoining. I wanted to try after my divorce because the chapter was close by, but it was around $100 to do so and that was 1985.

    Meira on January 8, 2014 at 5:18 am

      Meira, I’m sorry your experience in Mensa wasn’t more rewarding.

      I went back and checked with one of our long time members. Her recollection is that at one time the only qualification test used was one administered by Mensa, itself. At some point, in the 80’s or early 90’s this was expanded, and candidates could qualify based on certified scores of certain tests they had already taken, such as the GMAT or Miller Analogies Test. A partial list of these tests is on our website, us.mensa.org, and if anyone has questions about other tests they can certainly call our office.

      I want to emphasize that costs for rejoining include only pro-rated dues. There is no penalty charge, fee or other type of surcharge for rejoining.

      Our membership year runs from April 1 through March 31. So, for example, if someone were to rejoin on January 1, they might want to pay $87.50 which would include $17.50 for the final three months of the current membership year (1/4 of $70) and $70 for the next year. Conversely, if someone were to join or rejoin on July 1, they might only have to pay $52.50 for the final nine months of the current membership year. My guess is that the $100 Debbie spoke of involved some type of pro-ration like that. I again emphasize that no part of the cost of joining or rejoining involves a separate fee or penalty assessment. The cost consists entirely of dues.

      Lower rates are available if someone takes out a membership for a longer period of time, such as a three or five year membership, and family rates are also available.

      Isabelle Sutka on January 8, 2014 at 11:42 am

I live in Mexifornia. I know when dealing w Mexicans to be very careful. I dislike paying for their mistakes.

And, I have learned there is a shrewd intelligence rooted in evil. While dumber people rely on shrewd intelligence to gain unfair advantage, smart foreigners carry this tool in their arsenal.

I stay away from foreigners for survival. 75% recently failed drivers license test in Nevada. Yet, they live well off the rest of us. Who is REALLY smart? Who is the DUMMY?

Don’t bother to flame and call me racist. I don’t care. This is based on my real life experience.

Darrell L. Hicks on January 8, 2014 at 10:51 am

Oh, wow. The ethnic group I belong contributed St. Francis of Assisi Dante, St.Thomas Aquinas, the humanists, Leonardo, Michelangelo, Tiziano, Galileo, Palestrina, Pergolesi, Caravaggio, Vico, Vivaldi, Canaletto, Spallanzani, Arduino, Galvani, Volta, Avogadro, Garibaldi, Verdi, and Puccini; we invented diplomacy, international law, maritime law, classical music, universities, history as a discipline, philology, and several sciences; and we codified manners for the whole Western world. (Look up “The Book of the Courtier” and “Galateo” and see where they came from.) We are the world centre of the Catholic Church, but we also boast the most ancient Protestant church in the world – the Waldensians, look them up – and the most ancient continuing Jewish community, the Bene Romi. Finally, even when it comes to evil and villainy, we have invented and codified them: Napoleon, Fascism and the Mafia were and are Italian. So, for these brilliant people, we are genetically inferior and a burden on Lebanese and Cubans? With all due respect, I don’t quite feel so very crushed by the comparison.

Laura Latini on January 8, 2014 at 11:46 am

I grew up in the 1950s and 1960s in a community dominated by the Automobile Industry. Within one long city block of where I lived, there were FIVE children in my age range who grew up and became Ph.D.s and holders of various health care doctorates. The post World War II era brought engineers to the Auto Industry and educators to the schools, which became a model for the nation. Amateur Radio antennas dotted the skyline above the engineers’ houses. Arabic Christians and Jewish people lived side by side in peace. Test scores brought out three students in the 99th Percentile on the SRA tests in a classroom of thirty. Where was this? In FLINT of all places. And not in the neighborhoods with houses that rival the Grosse Pointes and Bloomfield. Just a solid Middle Class area. Then it all fell apart. So you can’t say that things are only good in certain cultures and countries and religions. And just when you get too proud of your culture and origins, things change.

Historian Approximately on January 8, 2014 at 2:04 pm

I tend to disagree with these assertions, based on unscientific principles, and on the celebrity status the author enjoys which may have been the motivation (Mr. Obama penned 2 books after riding the headlines, but then so did the Kardashians).
If higher income is the measure of success, as is asserted, then the early pioneers in this country set the bar so high that no one will ever reach it. Also, there are many Phd’s out there that can’t find work or pay their student loans, yet the marketplace is full of foreigners on visas that come here to work, and they don’t have student loans; all those 7-11’s? It is very easy to scam immigration and open up a franchise, a business that is basically already set up, a turn-key business. Ultimately the Indian/Pakistanis run it to the ground. Both of those countries have the atomic bomb, but can’t feed their people or provide medical care, ultimately American doctors go there to feed and heal them. If one thinks that all Chinese are so smart, why? Is every Chines a doctor or engineer? Why can’t they invent something, instead of just knocking off something? What is their economic success based on? Coolie labor. The Cuban middle class raped and pillaged Cuba before they ran to the U.S. (they expected Americans to fight and die for Cuba). Most of the Cubans on the island (of African descent), 98%, lived in squalor and poverty in the countryside outside of Havana, where all Cubans say they lived (the “white” Cubans). Cubans are Hispanic whether they admit to it or not.
They leave out the WASP’s, and rise of the Irish-Catholic to political, economic and business success in the 20th century. And most of the early universities in the U.S. were founded by Christians, Harvard and Yale; and are pre-dated by universities in Latin America by at least one hundred years.

Dr. I.M. Kookie on January 9, 2014 at 10:20 am

Your writing style is so disorganized it’s hard to see any coherency in all this gibberish. I will respond only to one point: unemployed PhDs.

While there are still some PhDs with striking intellectual achievements, and while some fields, like the sciences and math (although even there…) but in a widen sense, especially for the social sciences and humanities, there has been a dumbing down of PhDs, just as there has been a dumbing down of academics and society in general.

I have actually been a little disappointed in the overall character of the comments for this post.

Little Al on January 9, 2014 at 10:35 am

I covered a lot, without having to publish a book on this blog; but please tell what “in a widen sense”, as you put it, means. And, what scholarly references did you use to propose your ridiculous assumptions and stereotypes? Perhaps you belong to the “dumbing-down” academia.

Dr. I.M. Kookie on January 9, 2014 at 12:56 pm

Obviously that was a typo. If you had an IQ above 90 you would have understood that ‘in a wider sense’ meant that I was making a generalization beyond the narrow range of PhDs that deserved that title and really had impressive intellectual achievements. The American Studies Association is the latest woeful example.

Little Al on January 9, 2014 at 1:25 pm

And you look at the idiocy that so many professors are putting to print these days, the silly courses that are being offered, the pathetic topics of all too many of the dissertations, the tendentious and overly flowery language used by them and by yourself:

‘tend to disagree’; what is the difference between tending to disagree and just disagreeing?

Mr. Obama penned 2 books — numerals below 10 should generally be written out.

Your use of semi-colons would cause you to fail a decent 12th grade grammar exam. Are you the example of a PhD who supposedly has earned the designation?

Little Al on January 9, 2014 at 2:06 pm

And furthermore, fool, look at the academic work (sic!!!) of recent Fulbright Grant, Marshall Scholarship and Rhodes Scholarship winners. A really disproportionate amount of their interests revolve around politically correct and meritless topics, climate change, women’s lib in its various forms, diversity in its various forms, and so on. Who would want to hire people like that other than Government enforcement agencies, universities or corporate diversity departments?

Little Al on January 9, 2014 at 2:57 pm

Like all nitwits, you lapse into obscenity and your response is devoid of any substance. As I’ve said, your unsuccessful sarcasm is meant to mask your pathetic lack of substance.

Little Al on January 11, 2014 at 8:23 pm

But I guess the most irritating aspect of your 10:56 comment is the phony intellectual reflection — the tendentious ‘Hmmmm’, meant to convey deep thought. This is what the nonentity PhDs do.

Little Al on January 11, 2014 at 9:18 pm

I should have known you would support the racist Bell Curve. Many, if not most, of you Republicans believe black people and non-white Hispanics are generally dumb. Then you have the gall to complain that most minorities won’t vote Republican. I don’t agree with Liberals on every issue, but at least they don’t support books saying blacks and.non-white Hispanics are genetically inferior.

Lee on February 16, 2014 at 9:11 pm

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