April 21, 2006, - 6:57 pm

Islamic Imperialist Workout Comes to America: Your Gym is Now Allah’s Gym

By Debbie Schlussel
**** UPDATE: AMMERAH SAIDI, MUSLIM WOMAN PROTESTING THE GYM, DEFENDS ISLAMIC TERRORISTS, WON’T DENOUNCE HOMICIDE BOMBINGS, SAYS, “IF IT [AMERICA] FALLS TO ISLAM, SO BE IT.” (SEE COMMENTS.) ****
Americans must decide if we are going to willingly accept the imposition of others’ religious rules, or if we will stand up for our own freedoms while we still have them.
That is the debate at the center of America’s culture clash with Mid-Easterners who want to impose their Islamist mores on us–on our own shores. At least, it would be a debate, if we would not just immediately fold every time there is a challenge.
The latest example of the debate is Fitness USA gyms. The nationwide chain of gyms (headquartered in suburban Detroit) is the latest target of Islamic extremists who insist it impose separate workout days or a partition of the sexes.
But the name of the company is clearly “Fitness USA,” not “Allah’s Gym USA.” A Detroit Free Press article, written by resident Islamist reporter Niraj Warikoo, does not tell the whole story, but it is useful as background (if you can read between the lines).

fitnessusamuslimwomen.jpgjanefondasworkout.jpg

Time for Arrwa Mogalli, Ammerah Saidi to Find Hanoi Jane Useful

(Left Photo by DAVID P. GILKEY/Detroit Free Press)

While it is true that many Fitness USA gyms have separate workout days for men and women, not all do. The gym’s Lincoln Park facility has an expensive cardio area that it has chosen to make available to both sexes at all times. Muslim women who do not want to work out at Fitness USA’s Dearborn crowded facility are now demanding that nearby Lincoln Park use gender-specific workout days or impose a partition in the middle of the cardio area. It cannot be done and would prevent non-Muslims who want to work out every day from doing so to meet the Muslim women’s self-centered demands.
The Muslim women told Detroit’s local NBC affiliate newscast that if Fitness USA does NOT meet their demands, they will stage pickets in front of the gym. While Dearborn is a 30% Arab city (not 30% Muslim), Lincoln Park is much less so. Yet these women want to impose their will on the gym. They signed an agreement that did not provide for their stringent single-sex sequestration requirements. As an attorney who has represented gyms, I know well that there is a reason the gym has a contract (which the Muslim women apparently don’t think applies to them–they’re special).
There is a solution for the Muslim women, which they selfishly refuse to utilize. They can work out completely covered up (as a Muslim woman at my gym does) just as they are covered up when they walk in front of men on the street and elsewhere. But they don’t want to. The women showed a the local Detroit TV newscast that they prefer to wear their skimpy, immodest work-out clothes, which they do not want to wear in front of men. And, hey, they don’t want to get their hijab headscarves all sweaty. They would rather impose their will on the gym than discomfort themselves in the least.
Too bad. That’s not the way America works. This is a private business that has chosen its own rules, not Islam’s rules.
If there is such a large market for what these women want, then the free market will take care of it–perhaps they can open their own single-sex or partitioned gym. Or they can always rent an old Hanoi Jane Fonda video and work out (well, Fonda actually binged and purged and pretended to work out) at home.
But that’s not, unfortunately, what many American Muslims want. They want to impose their will on the rest of us. And therein lies the problem of which the gym story is just a microcosmic example. We can either be a free country or an Islamic one, not both. They want the latter.
Ready to wear your burqa to the gym and have the cardio room partitioned? Me neither. Tough luck for those who want it that way for all of us. For now.
**** UPDATE, 04/26/06Weakness USA: Dhimmi Gym Caves to Extremist Muslim Chicks

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83 Responses

Let us also not forget to include that much of that state of Israel was purchased legally by Jews from Muslim land owners, and when the Jews decided to consolidate that land and build a state of it legally under UN guidance (1948), the arab countries declared war on the state and told the arab muslims living on that land to leave despite Israel praticaly begging them not to leave. They left anyway knowing (hoping rather) that Israel would be destroyed, and of course it never was. Even after the 1948 war, Israel asked the arab refugess to return as citizens as long as they recognize Israel and becomes peacefull citizens. These “Palestinians” naturaly said in one form or another “F OFF!” In other words, they refused hoping that Israel would still be destroyed. And here we are today, Palestinians living in a world they created for themselves and from the sound advice from surrounding Arab countries who told them to leave, and of course today these host countries refuse to legitimize their own Palestinians into citizens of the these countries (except Jordan) and continue to use the Palestinian situation as propoganda against Israel.
How exaclty did Israel steal this terriroty Ammerah?

Avatar on April 24, 2006 at 5:45 pm

Ammarah, a/k/a the Pro-Terrorist Beauty Wannabe, vomited the following;
“And Palestinians are victims of Western Imperialism.”
She left out one very important fact about the “dilemma” the Palestinians are facing, and that is that the Palestinians have been used as political pawns by Arabs and Muslums all over the Middle East for DECADES.
She knows how utterly abused they are in Jordan, Syria, Kuwait, Iran, etc., but she won’t mention it. No, she blames the Palestinian situation on the West. LMFAO!
That’s all the Moslem can parrot: Blame the West! Blame the West! Blame the West! Polly want a falafel! AAAAACCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!
She knows DAMN well how the rest of the Arab and Muslum world treat those people. How ever badly anyone thinks the Israelis treat them, the Arabs and Mosloms treat them FAR, FAR worse! Google the net for how Palestinians are physically and psychologically abused in the refugee camps in those places. They can’t vote, they can’t earn a living, they can’t go to school, they can’t drive, they can’t travel within those countries’ borders, they live in dire and utter squalor.
So, the next time Ammerah spews her Islamic propaganda, let’s all tell her to admit how one group of Mosloms treat another group as worthless political pawns all for the sole purpose of wiping Israel off the map.
She and ofthebrainless are Islamic phonies and frauds.

Thee_Bruno on April 24, 2006 at 6:09 pm

Ammerah also vomited;
“Oh, but wait, Mozlooms DOOOO recognize Jesus and we actually value him…”
I never said that Muzlums don’t acknowledge Jesus. However, they don’t believe He is the Son of God. According to Mohammad, Jesus was just another Muzlom prophet. See how that deceiving bastard Mohammad tried to hijack Christianity? God forbid anyone tries to hijack Islam, and all you barbarians start rioting and murdering. Remember the Mohammad cartoons?!
she also vomited;
“Fitness USA…is susceptible to wills and wishes of its PAYING members…”
Typical Moslom mindset. In Islam, Mosloms must submit to the will of Mohammad (allah is just a tool). In Moslom countries, the Infidel must submit to the will of Mosloms. But here in a civilized country like America, private institutions don’t have to bend to the “wills and wishes” of its customers (especially Moslom ones). Here in America, if you’re not pleased with the service, then you get a refund, move on, and join another gym!!!!
But, as I said earlier, you’re not interested in exercise. You’re interested in having America submit to Sharia Law one step at a time. But, Ahkmed-ee, it ain’t happenin’!
LMFAO!

Thee_Bruno on April 24, 2006 at 6:23 pm

Well, I guess after all is posted, Amerrah Mohammad is just your typical, average, America-loving, moderate Moslum that we always keep hearing about from the Muslum propagandists and the LIBS.
But, wait a minute, Debbie asked her;
1) WHAT IS YOUR VIEW OF HAMAS? WILL YOU CONDEMN IT AND ITS HOMICIDE BOMBINGS OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS? HOW ABOUT HEZBOLLAH, WHICH MURDERED HUNDREDS OF AMERICANS AND IS TRAINING INSURGENTS IN IRAQ?
2) DO YOU RECOGNIZE ISRAEL’S RIGHT TO EXIST?
3) DO YOU CONDEMN ANTI-SEMITISM (AGAINST JEWS)?
4) DO YOU BELIEVE AMERICA SHOULD REMAIN A SECULAR DEMOCRACY?
5) DO YOU BELIEVE A PRIVATE BUSINESS HAS THE RIGHT TO SET ITS OWN RULES AND NOT BE ENCROACHED UPON BY A SPECIFIC RELIGION?
However, Ammerah Mohammad didn’t answer. So, I guess Ammerah Mohammad isn’t one of those millions of so-called moderate Mosloms who don’t buy into the “extremist” wing of Islam (LMFAO). All those “moderates” who don’t agree with all that violence and deception that the Religion of Peace is all about.
Ammerah Mohammad agrees with the jihadists. Either that, or she’s afraid of an honor beating. Either way, Islam is no Peaceful Religion.
And, let’s not forget her “Christian” friend, ofthebrainless, who defends this “moderate” Moslom.
LMFAO!

Thee_Bruno on April 24, 2006 at 7:39 pm

@ sjhernan, ofthebrainless, and Ammerah MohammadÖ”He who hurts a Non-Muslim citizen of a Muslim state, I am his adversary, and I shall be his adversary on the Day of a Judgement.” (Bukhari)
WellÖthere will be that DAY of JUDGMENT for all the ìhurtsî MUSLIM states have brought upon their Non-Muslim citizens.
BUT what about the MUSLIM NATIONS that threaten to bring nuclear destruction upon their neighboring nation, or the world?
St. Paul, THE APOSTLE, answered that question long ago in his Epistle to the Romans, specifically Romans 13: 3-4.
3__For RULERS (like President Bush and the Coalition of the Willing) are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good (Iran and Palestine!) and you will have praise from the same;
4__for IT is a minister of God to you for good. But if YOU do what is evil, be afraid (Iran); for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings WRATH on the one who practices evil.
IRANÖlisten to the SANE part of the worldÖand put down your nuclear arms~
OrÖLOOKÖthe ìSpirit of New Yorkî is comingÖwith the DESTRUCTION you have ALREADY EARNED by your defiance and threats:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0972880&size=L&width=1020&height=692&sok=JURER%20%20%28nvepensg_trarevp%20%3D%20%27Abeguebc%20Tehzzna%20O-2%20Fcvevg%27%29%20%20beqre%20ol%20ivrjf%20QRFP&photo_nr=9&prev_id=0280245&next_id=0211888

The Canadien on April 24, 2006 at 7:59 pm

Still waiting for Ammerah, a/k/a Ahkmed-ee (who really knows who she is) to answer Debbie’s questions. For all we know Ahkmed-ee and ofthemany are one and the same. Funny how neither of them posted of late.
I’d like to know how many “moderate” Muslums are truly Hitlers-in-headscarfs. Their silence is astounding.

Thee_Bruno on April 24, 2006 at 8:24 pm

Again for the people who are supposed to be rabid hate mongers its not us who are insulting and name calling. If you can’t keep a civil tongue maybe you shouldn’t post at all. As I Muslim I am REQUIRED to have the highest respect for all the prohpets and I all this name calling and anger sad and distrubing
I can’t speak for Ammerah but I can speak for mysself
Going back to what I said about the Rahman case of course countries like SaudiArabia and Pakistan that have a very strong extermists element are going to support a BS case like the Rahman thing. They would rather cater to the extermists in their midsts than deal with them and risk a civil war which they should be ashamed off.
But remember our own counrty catered to Pro – Slavery extremists in an attempt to avoid Civil War so this is not special to these countries.
Is the West and Israel to blame for all the problems in the mideast? Of course not that is way to simple of an answer and I argue against any one who would say otherwise.
As a hispanic I am proud of the contributions Jews and Muslims made to me culture and to that of Europe don’t belive me read: Dogs of God or The Last Apocalpyse.
But wait weren’t we talking about Gyms? I think number of the posters here need to relax actually talk to some REAL Muslims ( Bin Laden and any one who supports his madness is no Muslim to me) I am not being silent who wants to ask me any questions?

sjhernan on April 24, 2006 at 9:11 pm

`I think number of the posters here need to relax actually talk to some REAL Muslims`
Well, here are the real muslims:
This is what the M`sian DPM says:
`Dato’ Seri Najib kicked the ball first to insist to insist none should openly debate if Muslims could slander the followers of other religions`
AND
`Non-Malays living in the vicinity of mosques in Kuala Lumpur hear this call to arms against the non-Muslims through high-pitches megaphones`
http://mggpillai.com/print.php3?sid=2049&pda=0
OBL is not mad. He is a good muslim following in the footsteps of his prophet. Anyone saying otherwise is a lying hypocrite.

hutchrun on April 25, 2006 at 12:01 am

`any one who supports his madness is no Muslim to me`- posted by sjherman
You are not a real muslim then.

hutchrun on April 25, 2006 at 12:07 am

Whoever said Muslim women aren’t attractive is lying. They are very attractive. I think that the gym owner would be better served to make the gym all Muslim and video tape the hot muslim women working out in their leotards and sell the tapes to Western men under the name of “Burkhas Gone Wild.”
Just thinking outside the box. . . . .

Spidy on April 25, 2006 at 1:20 am

“If America falls to Islam, so be it”
Ammerah SaidiÖyour ANTI-AMERICAN statement is being heard around the worldÖfirst Debbie Schlussel highlighted what you said, and now ++ relapsed catholic ++ religion politics entertainment blog has:
http://www.relapsedcatholic.blogspot.com/
And Dhimmi Watch: http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/011185.php
AND so onÖ
Probably a good time to run and hide~

The Canadien on April 25, 2006 at 8:00 am

Thank goodness the people of USA are not dhimmified like those in Europe and have the good sense to see that Islam is an insidious cancer that eats away at its host country either through war or through rabid intimidation through a vocal minority. When it is weak, this is what you get. But when Islam becomes stronger be prepared to see a war erupt between Muslims and non-Muslims just like what’s happening in Sudan, Southern Thailand, Indonesia, India. In Malaysia where I live Muslims make it very difficult to build churches and temples. I GUARANTEE you, you will soon see demands from Muslims in the US that no churches and temples be built in neighbourhoods where they form a significant part of the population. Soon after you will see them frown at you for eating while they are fasting during ramadhan. Then you will see them start to attack ex-Muslims who left the cult of Mohammad. This is all happening in Malaysia which the world considers a moderate Muslims country (a country which illegally increased its Muslims population by letting in millions of illegals from Indonesia and southern Phillipines) even though the Muslim population stands at only 54% leaving non-Muslims 46%. They will use democracy as a weapon to vote syariah law into existence. So watch out.

paladin on April 25, 2006 at 8:09 am

Ammerah – if Islam is so important to you, why don’t you move to the Middle East or Pakistan or Afghanistan.

paladin on April 25, 2006 at 8:12 am

ñ paladin…Thanks for enlightening us about the development stages of the ISLAMIC CANCER and the TANGIBLE signs we can watch for.
APPLY to Canada for REFUGEE STATUS…you should be accepted~

The Canadien on April 25, 2006 at 9:34 am

Sure, Islam doesn’t advocate violence.That’s how it swept the Arabian peninsula, North Africa, and half of Europe in record time. It had nothing to do with it’s blood thirsty, womanizing, self-serving pediphile of a “prophet.”(It’s hard to imagine Jesus Christ marrying a nine year old girl.) I judge by common sense, and common sense tells me that terrorists profess Islam, whether or not it is “true” Islam; obviously enough muslims believe islam gives them permission to indiscriminately kill infidels to carry out attacks–that’s enough for me. Any peaceful passages in the q’uran apply to muslims, not to “non-believers”
How about these women join “Curves?” or start their own gym? (One of the women insisted there is a market for this) We don’t do gender apartheid in America, ladies. No, Debbie’s right–this isn’t about “respect” it’s about jihad. If these ladies insist on wearing their own garb, they will stand out. When people stand out, they attract attention, pure and simple. If religion is so important to these women that they have wear their native dress in this country, then maybe they shouldn’t be here. (Something tells me that they’re doing quite well financially, yet these women can’t do the first thing to assimiate.)
This is the future. Muslims will demand more and more “respect.” Get ready for your kids to take muslim holidays at school. Every country that has allowed mass muslim immigration has had a problem with non-assimilation. Time to wake up.
Thank God for Charles Martell! I am off to write my last will and testament.

melati on April 25, 2006 at 9:43 am

Still not hearing anything but fear and hate speech

sjhernan on April 25, 2006 at 10:03 am

Also interesting that when I say I reject the violence and extermism of the terrorists I am not beleived but if I gave my support to such madness I would be shouted down ( and rightfully so) as nut so I am in a lose – lose situtation.
I have nothing to prove – as a convert I am often the only Muslim in my group of friends and last time I checked I haven’t bombed any of their homes or killed them. But I have helped move into their new home and find jobs thats what REAL beliviers do
I have Catholic,Jewish, Buddist, Atheist, Evangelical and Muslim friends and again shock of shocks we allget along fine.
Having an open mind will do that for you

sjhernan on April 25, 2006 at 10:15 am

sjhernan,
How about this…Unlike some others, I am aware there are peaceful muslims that just want to leave in their lives without a care for sharia law infecting their lives or just want peace in the middle east with israel. Maybe that is you. But here is a wake up call for you, you are in the VAST MINORITY. If you dont believe in sharia law and only accept small portions of the Quran while rejcting others then you are not practicing pure Islam.
That being said, since Akhmed-ee chickened out on answering at least one of Debbie’s questions and instead spewed out BS such as, “If America falls to Islam, so be it”, maybe you can answer them for her so we know YOUR stance on Islam.
Here they are with some questions I’ve added:
1) WHAT IS YOUR VIEW OF HAMAS? WILL YOU CONDEMN IT AND ITS HOMICIDE BOMBINGS OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS? HOW ABOUT HEZBOLLAH, WHICH MURDERED HUNDREDS OF AMERICANS AND IS TRAINING INSURGENTS IN IRAQ?
2) DO YOU RECOGNIZE ISRAEL’S RIGHT TO EXIST?
3) DO YOU CONDEMN ANTI-SEMITISM (AGAINST JEWS)?
4) DO YOU BELIEVE AMERICA SHOULD REMAIN A SECULAR DEMOCRACY?
5) DO YOU BELIEVE A PRIVATE BUSINESS HAS THE RIGHT TO SET ITS OWN RULES AND NOT BE ENCROACHED UPON BY A SPECIFIC RELIGION?
Expanding on Question 4…
6) Do you believe Muslim women should have the right to refuse to wear the Hijab and even dress like Western Women?
7) Do Muslims have the right to reject Islam and convert with no consequences?

Avatar on April 25, 2006 at 10:54 am

@sjhernan__Maybe you are a REAL MuslimÖa man of peace.
Well thenÖyou are a ìdifferentî GRAIN of SAND on a vast BEACHÖhard to see, and hard to find again!
And what can YOU doÖto effect that LARGE Islamic SAND DUNE of ìHATRED and MURDERî that CONSTANTLY blows across ALL of HUMANITY?
And your sister, Ammerah Saidi, calling Debbie a ìsilly gooseî obviously showing us that SHE is emotionally arrestedÖlikely, moderately retardedÖand lacking in ANY TYPE of EMPATHY for the ongoing HORRORS your ISLAMIC NAZI brothers and sisters CONTINUE to scourge mankind with. But thatís what your co-religionists LOVE to seeÖ the GRIEF of others.
Thatís why B-2 bombers are SO necessary.
A THREAT of DESTRUCTION from IranÖIS GOING to bring REAL DESTRUCTIONÖto Iran.
And REAL grief~
(Weíre ALL open-minded hereÖOPEN-MINDED to the TRUTH gathered by our observations and UNMOVED by empty talk of peace…when all we see IS violence)

The Canadien on April 25, 2006 at 11:38 am

If we are going to bomb Iran, which is one of the supposed reasons for the high rise in gas prices, let’s go ahead and do it now.

Jeff_W on April 25, 2006 at 12:37 pm

Re;arabs at this site,how do you teach your kid ,killing is o,k.?

danny on April 25, 2006 at 3:52 pm

Avatar, you posed a good question for sjhyman to answer. However, don’t hold your breath waiting for it. And, by answer, I mean that he has to answer each one specifically, and without the usual Moslom double-speak and evasions.
I love these Mosloms – They demand that everyone else have an open mind, except themselves.
The key tipoff to any cult is when they say: “Please have an open mind”. They say so because it’s a lot easier to brainwash the person if he’s unquestioning and accepts what they say as fact.

Thee_Bruno on April 25, 2006 at 5:51 pm

Thee_Bruno
LOL! Funny you should say that, because just at the end of my post, I typed “Patiently waiting for your response, but not holding my breath”.
Then I deleted it! I did it so it would not come off as antagonizing, in case sjhyman would actually be motivated to answer the questions, even though deep inside I knew he wouldnt. But alas, his sensitivities have taken him over and he has not answered. Nor has he given me an islamic based answer to my arguments against his COPY AND PASTED recycled articles he posted on this page defending Islam.
HE said he would discuss these things but not with people who insulted and hated on him and I’m one of the few who have not. Well now he’s MIA…or RESEARCHING his canned responses

Avatar on April 25, 2006 at 6:26 pm

Avatar,
You’ve nailed sj-hymen, just as I have. He’s just your average lying, duplicitous Muzlum. Don’t worry about being antagonistic towards him (that’s what I’m here for) because that’s all Islamists understand – antagonizing people. They do it with a smile on their face and with a knife at your back. After all, their “profit Mohammed” was an expert in deceit, plunder, murder, and revenge.
sj-hymen will say that he abhors violence on this blog, but he probably celebrated as the twin towers collapsed, killing thousands of people.
Let’s sit and wait for his answers to your very poignant questions. And, by that, I mean that he has to answer EVERY question in FULL without the usual Muzlum equivocations, moral relativeness (as Ammerah, the four-eyed freak did), and the usual Muzlim bullshit.

Thee_Bruno on April 25, 2006 at 10:36 pm

1) WHAT IS YOUR VIEW OF HAMAS? Hamas is to be like the IRA it has a political wing that has garnered support from the populace by provinging the services that the PA could not or would not. But it also has a militant no ñ peace no compromise wing again like the IRA. Its Election was a shock to everyone including Hamas this came about by a number of different factors. First and foremost the corruption and lameness of the PA, the current administrations lack of support for the PA further undermined its power. On the eve of the elections the admin pumped in huge amounts of last minute aid to counter the expected strong showing of Hamas but it was too little too late. WILL YOU CONDEMN IT AND ITS HOMICIDE BOMBINGS OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS?
2) Of course any taking of innocent life is disgusting to me and totally against Islamic law
3) HOW ABOUT HEZBOLLAH, WHICH MURDERED HUNDREDS OF AMERICANS AND IS TRAINING INSURGENTS IN IRAQ? ñ Same answer BTW within Iraq and else where there have been tensions and outright violence between nationalist groups some of which like the baathist in Iraq are secular and generally do not attack civilizians and extremists groups like Al queda which are ultra ñ crazy fundamentalist and attack without any restraint.
4) DO YOU RECOGNIZE ISRAEL’S RIGHT TO EXIST? Yes they have suffered terrible throughout history (See Spanish inquisition, expulsion of the Jews) Any one who denies the fact of the holocaust is an idiot. I separate Judaism from Israel as they are not the same just like so ñcalled Muslim countries do not often represents the religion they claim to. A number of Christian and Jewish groups and myself of course recognize the RIGHT of Israelís to leave free of random and brutal attacks. But at the same time we most recognize the illegal settlements,sepration wall and general heavy handedness of Israel are a constant sore point that will have resolved with compromise on BOTH sides sadly neither side seems wiling to give right now.
3) DO YOU CONDEMN ANTI-SEMITISM (AGAINST JEWS)? Again of course
4) DO YOU BELIEVE AMERICA SHOULD REMAIN A SECULAR DEMOCRACY? Yes very much so it is a personal fear of mine that extremists are gaining more and more power which is why communication and dispelling this culture of fear is so important. So again my friends protests against the gym hardly represents an assault on our basic freedoms
5) DO YOU BELIEVE A PRIVATE BUSINESS HAS THE RIGHT TO SET ITS OWN RULES AND NOT BE ENCROACHED UPON BY A SPECIFIC RELIGION? See above.
5) Do you believe Muslim women should have the right to refuse to wear the Hijab and even dress like Western Women? Yes, and a number of my female Muslim friends donít wear it and an equal number of my friends do wear it some of them over the objections of their parents ñ its up to the woman which is it how should be
7) Do Muslims have the right to reject Islam and convert with no consequences? As I said to about the Rahman case the ì clericsî of Afghanistan had no legal leg to stand on. A Muslims duty is to present the Message and rest is up to the person if they accept it or not is their business.
Now a couple questions for you:
Why the need to insult and belittle? Thatís just childish
Do you REALLY think a small group of women who want to exercise is a threat to their homeland? Why arenít you more concerned with our ballooning debt, erosion of civil rights and corporate outsourcing and corruption?
Have any of you actually met and had a real conversation with a Muslim? Or any other groups that have a different views than your own? Try it its very helpful.
I am going to guess my honest words will penetrate very little but I felt the need to say them. If they didnít then I am sadden for you. If they did keep learning more NPR had a great series on Islam and the Quran that was very popular because many people just donít know that much about Islam check it out:
http://www.wamu.org/programs/dr/06/04/21.php#10246
Finally donít let fear blind you, it makes us no better then people we claim to hate.

sjhernan on April 26, 2006 at 11:14 am

sjhernan,
Thanks for answering. Regarding your responses.
Answer 1: Regardless of the number of political vs. military wings in Hamas, they all share the same idea that dedicates several sections of its charter promising the destruction of Israel. No compromise. The IRA just wanted Northern Ireland back. They didnt dedicate themselves to take back Norther Ireland while promising to destroy all of Great Britain by “pushing all of the protestants into the sea” like Hamas would like to do to the Jews of Israel.
The IRA’s agenda was completely political nor could any of the IRAs actions based on religious doctrine.
Answer 2: “Of course any taking of innocent life is disgusting to me and totally against Islamic law”
You did not answer the question. Would you publicly condemn these organizations. I assure you the previous poster Akhmed-ee would not. The question is would you. If you did, you would not be like minded to other muslims like Akhmed-ee who would never condem these organization, rather they just say the condemn all taking of innocent life, which is what you said…
Answer 4: Are you saying you dont believe what your muslim friend Akhmed-ee feels? and I quote ” If it falls to Islam (America), so be it. If it doesn’t, so be it.”
Answer 6: Regarding the Hijab. Thats good to hear..seriously. Unfortunately, your friends would not survive long in a Muslim country. They’ve executed woman in the streets for not wearing proper clothing including the Hijab. If not execution then stoning, beatings and rape are common occurences. You are in the minority on this one but I comend you for thinking this.
Answer 7: This was a yes/no question and your answer is very fuzzy. As I said in a previous post, the Taliban did have a leg to stand on, he was considered an apostate and the Quran is very clear on what apostates are how apostates are dealt with. “No compulsion in religion” is and never has been enough to argue this issue.
You said “A Muslims duty is to present the Message and rest is up to the person if they accept it or not is their business.”
We’re not talking about a Muslim who delivers the message and chooses how live their life as a Muslim, we’re talking about rejecting outright and choosing christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Paganism or whatever…
sjhernan, you seem to have more “Moderate” ideals than your average muslim who they themselves might label themselves as Moderate, but as I said before, you do not represent true Islam. You would be in the minority.
If you truly wish to reform your religion, your time would be better spent convincing other muslims, a TRUE moderate form of Islam which requires reformation, rather than trying to convince non-muslim that your ideal of Islam is the true Islam, and do all this based on islamic doctrine. This doenst include talking about this things with like minded Muslims. Start off in places like Saudi Arabia…
Its not us who needs to change our ideas on Islam, that responsibility falls on Muslim themselves.
Unfortuntately, anyone calling for reform is an uphill battle that places their life at risk.

Avatar on April 26, 2006 at 4:09 pm

PS. Regarding Hamas…There is little or no difference between a political only Hamas and a militant one.
When you elect “Mother of the Year, Umm Nidal, Mariam Farhat” to one the Palestinian Legislative Council, there clearly is no distinction between military only and political only. This is a “mother” who sits in a political seat yet proudly sends her own sons to kill innoncent civilians in Israel. She said she wished she a had hundred or more children to kill jews.
Hamas in nothing like the IRA…Thats an insult to the IRA

Avatar on April 26, 2006 at 4:31 pm

sj-hymen,
Overall, not TOO bad. However, I hear a lot of the moral relativism argument that all Muzlumz make when they talk about Muzlum violence and whether Israel has a right to exist.
As far as your response to question 1 – You make Hamas sound like the Red Cross when you say Hamas has a political wing and it’s altruistic in the services it provides to Palestinians.
Hamas’ only objective is to sread terrorism through murder and to wipe Israel off the map, pure and simple.
Response to question 2 – In Islam, there is a distinction of what and who is considered “innocent”. Innocent life, as in the Qur’ an pertains only to Muzlums. It does not pertain to the Infidel.
Secondly, the taking of life is NOT against Islamic Law. Now here’s where the distinction comes in: It’s against Islamic Law to take “innocent” (meaning, Muzlum lives), but the Qur’ an is chock full of instructions to take the life of the Infidel (Infidels are not considered “innocent”). I posted a bunch of references to this earlier on this thread. Every time a Muzlum talks about the Qur’ an and murder, they ALWAYS use the wording “innocent lives”, knowing DAMN well that most Infidels are unaware of this distinction.
Gotcha!
Response to question 4 – More moral equivalency between Israel and its enemies. Muzlumz always love to do this.
Response to the next question – You said the following; “Yes very much so it is a personal fear of mine that extremists are gaining more and more power which is why communication and dispelling this culture of fear is so important.”
What extremists are you talking about? The Religious Right (Christianity), perhaps?
You also said; “So again my friends protests against the gym hardly represents an assault on our basic freedoms”
Their protests DO represent an assault because our freedoms (mine and yours) are being slowly eroded via the use of these tactics. So, you’re very wrong in your assessment.
Response to question 7 – You still didn’t answer it. Do you believe a Muzlum can leave Islam of his free will without the risk of retribution?
You also said; ” A Muslims duty is to present the Message and rest is up to the person if they accept it or not is their business”
Who are you speaking about when you say it’s up to the person to accept it or not? Are you talking about a non-Moslum who is introduced to Islam?
Be specific.
Now, I’ll answer your questions.
Q – “Why the need to insult and belittle?”
A – WE speak the truth about what we see. If you’re offended by it, well, too bad.
Q – “Do you REALLY think a small group of women who want to exercise is a threat to their homeland?”
A – I already answered that and gave you my reason why.
Q – “Why arenít you more concerned with our ballooning debt, erosion of civil rights and corporate outsourcing and corruption?”
A – Ballooning debt, corporate outsourcing and corruption are not even on the topic. This thread is about how a bunch of Muzlums want to put America under Sharia Law one step at a time.
As far as erosion of civil rights goes, well, are you offended, as a Moslom, of the way we’re fighting the war on terrorism?
Secondly, please list what civil rights are being eroded.
Q – “Have any of you actually met and had a real conversation with a Muslim?”
A – Yes. If the topic is the weather, then they can be honest. If the topic is anything political or about Islam itself, then they engage in the tactics I already outlined in this thread.
Q – “Or any other groups that have a different views than your own?”
A – Yes. I usually don’t get the hostility and anger from Hindus, the Amish, and anyone else who isn’t Muzlum that I get from people who are Muzlum.
You also said;
“Try it its very helpful.”
It is. I feel like a big load’s been lifted from my shoulders.
“I am going to guess my honest words will penetrate very little…”
You guessed correctly.
“If they didnít then I am sadden for you.”
Please don’t…I’m actually very happy and content.
“…NPR had a great series on Islam and the Quran that was very popular because many people just donít know that much about Islam…”
NPR is an ultra-LIBERAL, America-hating organization, so it’s no wonder why they would air a sanitized version of Islam.
Secondly, I know all TOO well about what Islam is all about.
“Finally donít let fear blind you…”
I have perfect 20/20 vision. It helps me to see who America’s true enemies are.
“…it makes us no better then people we claim to hate.”
You must’ve gotten that from the Qur’ an…right before Mohammad commands the “believers” to slay the Infidel.

Thee_Bruno on April 26, 2006 at 4:33 pm

@sjhernanÖWhy donít you watch JESUS of NAZARETHÖand discover a religion that will change your heartÖand not just a religion that changes oneís garb.
Then watch MASADA, the 10 COMMANDMENTS and THE CHOSENÖand learn to RESPECT the JEWS!! You will see that AGAINST ALL ODDSÖthe JEWS have survivedÖNOW, is that just an accidentÖor SOMETHING MORE? And there are MANY who will continue to help that end~~
ISMAELITES just canít produce good movies~
VATICAN CITY and ISRAELÖtwo of the SMALLEST nations in the worldÖYET so much of what ACTUALLY MATTERSÖthe LIFE of the SPIRIT revolves around these two little nations.
We live in the ERA of MASS COMMUNICATION and the SECRET IS OUT about ISLAM.
WE learned about NAZI GERMANY after the warÖ
WE know about NAZI ISLAM right nowÖBUT we were told in Genesis 16!
Your religion is DEAD…simply because it CANíT move the human soul.
ISLAM kills the soulÖand SOONER rather than later, FEAR and MIND CONTROL of the local imam will stop working.
And FREE PEOPLE will THROW AWAY Islam just like COMMUNISM has been thrown away.

The Canadien on April 26, 2006 at 6:19 pm

First off, I think Debbie needs to address what an ìextremist Muslimî is exactly. To state repeatedly, that these women are extremist in nature is unnecessary when the women have not shown so called ìextremist behaviour.î A request to exercise freely without the roaming eyes of men would not be called an ìextremistî idea if it was stated by a Christian.
It is sad to see such ignorance read on such a wide scale. Little things such as the word ìIslamistsî or ìmohammadensî only prove the lack of knowledge one has in regards to this topic. There is no such thing as an ìIslamist.î To respond so judgingly without knowledge is a dangerous thing. It is also dishonourable to discuss these women in such a bad manner. I doubt they were ìwhining about the gymî at all.
As well, to state that a movie should be a basis for the prejudgement of millions of Muslims is a horrible thing to state. The acts of a few do not determine the merits of all.
That is why it is extremely embarrassing as a human being to see how immature some of these responses are to this article. Being a Muslim does not mean you are a terrorist. These replies make me believe that the authors have never actually met a Muslim person before or discussed their beliefs with them. Would it make sense for me to ask the leader of the KKK his beliefs about humanity and then stereotype his character to the rest of his religion. No. It wouldnít.
If the only way to counter debate a Muslim is insulting their looks or using stereotypes or someone elsesí fault against them, then it is a weak argument and shouldnít be taken seriously at all.
And to answer CobraKai, gym equipment can be used to maintain a healthy body. Your body does not need to be displayed in front of others, it can be for yourself.
So, all in all, if people could just educate themselves first about ALL the beliefs of the Muslim people and show some compassion, maybe this page would be worth the time to read.

loudsilence on April 29, 2006 at 4:51 pm

Let me tell all of you that islam is the best thing that could happen to anyone.It is a life changing experience. I am a spanish born in america, and although I’ll admit that I had the same point of view and perhaps even worst then most of you I decided to have an open mind. Yeah and open mind what do you have to say about that? If you decide to study the religion from the aspect of accepting something through science and not faith you would be able to see beyong your small opinions. The quran speaks of things have recently been discovered only in the last few years, things that even a scientologists accepts. But no matter what religious background you are from you would probablt believe that there will be a judgement day and the best thing you can do for yourself is be your own person and not accept somethings simply because yu were reaised in it. Be your own person and question your religion seek the truth and don’t be among those who speak what they hear and not what they learn. good luck to all those who don’t let hatred govern their lives.
As for my fellow muslims Asalamu Aleikum, don’t let these people get to you remember what Allah says he guides whom he will, and let’s go astray those whom he wills. they are so full of hatred that their is a blindfold on their eyes, but it will be taken off on a day when there will be no hope for them, nor a chance to repent. On judgement day Allah will ask them to call on their Gods, and that day my brothers and sisters will be the day we get everything Allah has promised us for our patience and perseverance.
I tell you I thank Allah for showing me the way istead of clubing and wasting my life away as the world is doing today.
Allahu Ekbar
Asalama Aleikum Waratmetula Wabaraketu
THE DUMBING DOWN OF AMERICA CONTINUES.
DEBBIE SCHLUSEL

foreverchanged on January 12, 2007 at 5:02 pm

the jews surviving all odds?
How long will anyone live in this world 70, 80, 90 years let them survive. Let them live and enjoy. Greater punishment will come on judgement day for not heading Allahs(sub) warning.They were sent more messengers than any other people ans still decide to be hard -headed. An eternity of punishment in hell will be enough.
BOY WILL YOU BE SHOCKED WHEN YOU FIND OUT THERE ARE NO 72 VIRGINS WAITING FOR YOU.
DEBBIE SCHLUSSEL

foreverchanged on January 12, 2007 at 5:08 pm

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