September 8, 2010, - 7:01 pm

The Koran Burning and the Sudden Excess of Outrage

By Debbie Schlussel

Many readers have asked my opinion on the planned Koran burning on Saturday, the ninth anniversary of the 9/11 Islamic terrorist attacks on America, by Pastor Terry Jones of the Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Florida.

While I do not support, embrace, or endorse the International Burn a Koran Day, and it is meant to unnecessarily provoke (and does a disservice to the efforts of those of us who oppose Islam but do not engage in offense like this), I view it as far less offensive than those who burn an American Flag on regular occasions all over America.  The American Flag is far more holy to me than a book which inspires mass murder of all of those who do not adhere to the strictest observance of Islam and its sharia (and often the mass murder of rival Islamic factions).

I also see the burning of the Koran as far less offensive than “art” sponsored by the U.S. government, such as “Piss Christ,” featuring a cross in a bottle of urine.  But Hillary Clinton and Eric Holder never spoke out against that.    Neither did the mainstream media.  Instead of saying to the Islamic world, “this is what America is about–we say and do what we want, no matter how offensive,” they are cowering to those who have already vanquished us on the anniversary of the planned event.  Cowering to the enemy never works.  It eggs them on.

I view the planned burning of Korans as far less offensive than the mass murder of Jews and Christian on a regular basis all over the Islamic world on the basis of the contents of the Koran and its related Hadiths, considered the word of Mohammed.  But Hillary Clinton and Eric Holder never spoke out against that.    Neither did the mainstream media.

I view the planned burning of  Korans as far less offensive than the building of a mosque on top of the holiest Jewish site, the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, and the ongoing excavation of that Temple, which further destroys what is left.  I view the planned burning of Korans as far less offensive than the use of Jewish gravestones as sidewalk pavement and Jewish graves as urination receptacles, all done by Muslims who took over “Palestine” before it was recaptured by Israel in 1967.

I view the planned burning of Korans as far less offensive than I view the Sunni-dominated Saudi destruction of Sh’ite Korans,  in which the leather binding is purposely transformed into thong sandals to denigrate and embarrass Shi’ites and show them their Koran is the lowest of the low, gracing the dirt on the streets.   But Hillary Clinton and Eric Holder never spoke out against that.  Neither did the mainstream media.

Here’s what I view as far more offensive than the burning of Korans:  that the outrage over this is more so than the outrage of any Islamic murder of Americans, any jihadist beheading videos featuring Westerners being slaughtered in the name of the Koran.

And it is offensive that the same liberals who constantly tell me that burning the American flag and denigrating Christianity with urine jars is “free speech” and “that’s very American,” suddenly don’t seem to like free speech.

I also view it as offensive that frauds and whores like Hanan Tudor, the fake whose entire story is false and who goes by the porn name “Brigitte Gabriel” (and who raised money for an organization that praised Muslim death, rape, and torture threats against me, my Holocaust survivor grandmother, and my parents) is using this as an opportunity to condemn free speech, raise money so she can have more expensive designer perfumes and clothes, and engage in moral equivalency comparing this mere burning to the jihadist mass murders of Christians and Jews and destruction of churches and synagogues all over the Islamic world. In her latest shameless fundraising letter, she (actually, her ghostwriter, since they write everything for her including her books) asked:

What is the difference between his actions and the actions of Islamists destroying synagogues in Gaza or churches and Bibles in Lebanon, Bosnia and Egypt?

Yup, Hanan Tudor a/k/a “Brigitte Gabriel” sees burning the Koran as the same as destroying synagogues and churches. Only a moron wouldn’t know the difference and would send out such a cowering statement followed by, “Send me money” (the money being sent for no particular achievement other than being the Zsa Zsa Gabor of Arab pseudo-anti-jihadists).

That to me is far more disgusting than burning a Koran or even many Korans for three hours, even if I don’t support that act. But, then, this is the same fake who told Black churches how happy she was that Barack Obama was elected and who told Bill O’Reilly on FOX News that she praises Obama’s Muslim outreach efforts and that “he’s done a better job than Bush” on it.

After all, anyone who is intellectually honest and knowledgeable will admit that there is one book that inspired 9/11’s mass murder of 3,000 Americans by Muslims.  One book that inspires constant death, rape, and torture threats against me and my family.  One book that inspires planned underwear and Times Square bomb attacks.  IT’S. THE. KORAN.

What if a child or widow of a 9/11 victim was the one who burned the Koran instead of a fringe Florida pastor?  Would we dare tell them that the outrage over the burning of the book is much greater than the outrage over their loved one’s mass murder inspired by and on behalf of that same book?

Sorry, but while I don’t condone the burning of the Koran, I don’t condemn it either.  It’s simply an exercise of the First Amendment . . . an exercise you’ll never see in any of the Islamic world.

And that’s the point.  The Koran burning is VERY American.  Suddenly, the heretofore loquacious First Amendment crowd has been reduced to just crickets chirping.

And that’s soooo very American.  At least, that’s what the liberals told me.

When the Muslims around the world condemn the mass murder of Jews and Christians, the expelling and deportation of them from Muslim countries and regions, the destruction of synagogues and mosques, the spilling of blood of even secular Muslims and gays, then I will worry about condemning an irrelevant preacher in Florida exercising the First Amendment and not killing anyone or taking anyone’s property and reducing it to rubble or expelling anyone from his/her country.

But only then. Until then, I will embrace the First Amendment, which they don’t have anywhere in the Muslim world . . . unless you are the Caliph or the Sheikh.

Remember, liberals:  that’s what being American is all about.  Isn’t it?

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174 Responses

The thing that bothers me most about this Qu’ran-burning episode is that it is being endorsed by a church. There’s something nearly comically immature about responding to the ninth anniversary of a tragedy like 9/11 by burning a book. The fact that an entire community of faith seems to think this is a good idea breaks my heart.

If this church really wanted to help, they could have tried to bring comfort to the victims of 9/11, or pulled together to support those on active duty.

Instead, they choose to whip up a furor and imitate Westboro Baptist. It’s a stupid stunt like Piss Christ, but without US government funding. And I really do think any right to free speech is diluted when called on to defend that sort of juvenility. We grown-ups have ways of dealing with things. =/

Kate on September 11, 2010 at 8:40 am

    Kate sez:

    “The thing that bothers me most about this Qu’ran-burning episode is that it is being endorsed by a church.”

    I note the PC spelling of “Quran.” Must show respect for the Bnei Amalek! Oh yes! Anyway, what bothers me most is that churches (and synagogues) have been overwhelmingly silent about Islam. I guess your favorite church is one that doesn’t stand for anything.

    “There’s something early comically immature about responding to the ninth anniversary of a tragedy like 9/11 by burning a book.”

    Well, a small church has limits to its resources. If only “mainstream” churches were active on this issue, the actions would not be nearly so “comical” and far more effective.

    “The fact that an entire community of faith seems to think this is a good idea breaks my heart.”

    Oh spare me. If only we saw more from this “community of faith.”

    “If this church really wanted to help, they could have tried to bring comfort to the victims of 9/11, or pulled together to support those on active duty.”

    So you advocate treating the symptoms and not the cause? Churches can offer both palliative care and be defenders of non-Muslim values. Sometimes, doing the latter requires high-profile protest, which you should know from the example of the civil rights protests.

    “Instead, they choose to whip up a furor and imitate Westboro Baptist.”

    Uh, no. Nice try. Phelps’s outfit ridicules dead soldiers, being entirely consumed with gay people. This church, while obviously anti-gay, has other issues as well, and it is not a hotbed of America-hate.

    “It’s a stupid stunt …”

    See my comment about civil rights protests.

    “And I really do think any right to free speech is diluted when called on to defend that sort of juvenility.”

    That’s because you do not understand the concept of free speech.

    “We grown-ups have ways of dealing with things. =/”

    Yeah, you deal with such things by bending over.

    skzion on September 11, 2010 at 2:40 pm

      skzion

      I, too, was rather put off (nauseated) by kate’s condescending pedagogical lecture. Some people are just so sure they have the morality market cornered.

      Actually, I think the Pastor in question was making a brilliant point and it’s not difficult to imagine his flock in total support of the motives behind the proposed Koran burning.

      For the longest time, we’ve been subjected to liberal sponsored and PC protected Muslim intimidation, threats and lies. Between the lib and the Muslim fascists, they both take turns urinating on us, all the time assuring us it’s only raining.

      By his proposed act of desecration, the only one amid countless, unsubstantiated claims of Islam desecration by talking head Muslims and allied, supporting liberals, accompanied by numerous acts of desecration and intimidation on their part as well, the Pastor brought several of the ruling elite fascists from both sides out into the open, allowing them an opportunity to put their outrageous hypocrisy on full display. Also note how quickly the Muslims reneged on the deal they had agreed to – Muslims do not believe they owe Westerners and non Muslims any sort of Civil and Honorable behavior i.e. the same MO employed by liberals.

      ‘Freedom of religion, free speech, etc. for me, but not for thee. We are free to provoke but how dare you think you can provoke.’

      It was a teachable moment and a lesson learned by the entire nation – this is the nature of our enemy.

      Beboper on September 12, 2010 at 7:51 am

ramjordan Bin laden made attack before 1996. He also attacked Britain, Spain, Australian in Indonesia, Buddhist etc etc Muslim destroyed Pan Am 103, etc etc. This had nothing to do with Israel. In fact forcing Israel to make concession to murdering Muslim just encourages them more. Remember that 9/11 planning occurred during Clinton push to MAKE “PEACE’. Winston Churchill over 100 years ago had it exactly right about the curse of Islam. Of course Nazi like Pat Buchanan hates Churchill. American foreign policy is actually controlled by the evil Saudi government who should have been wiped out after 9/11. Those Saudi asshole even broke the agreement they signed with oil companies who found that oil. These countries should have no 20 century advance electricity, water phones, modern medicines, etc etc. Their oil resources should be used as compensation for the people they have terrorized and should be Muslim free. Muslim faking peace in Western nations should be sent back to countries of origin Oriann Fallaci had it exactly right. The supposedly peaceful Muslim want to take over the west by population in western countries.

madman on September 11, 2010 at 11:13 am

The Islamist pukes can burn all the Bibles they want. The Bible doesn’t need me or anyone else defending it in order to prevail:

“The Word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to and diving asunder the soul from the spirit, the joint from the marrow, and is a critic of thoughts and intents of the heart”. Hebrews 4:12

Maybe the Islamist scum feel that their “holy book” is somehow inferior, and thereby threatened by us infidels who know what the Koran really is – The propaganda rag of a pagan, moon-god cult that was founded by a pedophile.

If anyone could bring me a pile of Korans I would be up for using them to make some whole hog BBQ.

CornCoLeo on September 11, 2010 at 11:18 am

Sorry, made a typo. “piercing even to and DIVIDING asunder”.

CornCoLeo on September 11, 2010 at 11:32 am

How about everybody look at the big picture. If I burn a drawing of the koran, is that OK? Or how about I just burn a picture of a mosque. Is it OK to burn the flags of predominantly muslim countries or effigies of their despotic leaders? This PC sh#t will never stop until you can’t even think about burning the koran or say anything negative about islam.

Does anybody think that burning Mein Kampf, the film reels of An Inconvenient Truth or Mao’s Little Red book are bad things that should be avoided because of the backlash? I didn’t think so. These are all bibles that many degenerate people take to heart, just like the koran. I refuse to submit to BHO or any of the muzzie-loving criminals that work for him. They will never be able to stop me from burning any of these things until the pry my Zippo out of my cold dead hands.

Just remember this as well. What else will these sh#theads that supposedly represent us do to websites like this one where people are still free to slam the muzzies? Is this website inciting violence and will it be shut down due to national security interests? I wouldn’t put such a thing past BHO.

Jarhead on September 11, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    Bravo, Jarhead. Just because the followers of some doctrine proclaim their doctrine divinely authored, it doesn’t follow that we should admire it or defend its sanctity. Nor should we allow ourselves to be painted into a corner because of threats originating in this doctrine. As you point out, the Koran is no better than any number of totalitarian doctrines, none of which we are urged to pander to.

    skzion on September 11, 2010 at 2:23 pm

    There is NOTHING divine or holy about the koran.

    Islam is NOT a “faith” or “religion.” It’s a barbaric totalitarian tribal code…PERIOD!

    I refuse to accept the narrative that says I must respect islam or the koran because someone claims it’s a noble and ancient “religion of peace.” Like hell it is.

    This mischaracterization of islam and the koran, putting islam on par with Judaism or Christianity, or even many other eastern religions, is all bogus.

    Putting the koran on trial, finding it guilty, and sentencing it to burning seems remarkably appropriate, given islam’s violent track record.

    Someone got a problem with that? Too damn bad!

    Aurora on April 2, 2011 at 10:31 pm

Burning the American flag is the First Amendment at it’s finest, and theologically, such an action is religiously correct since adulation of the flag is equivalent to IDOLATRY!

Burning ANY book, though, is not only contrary to the First Amendment, but it’s almost always sinful…no matter WHAT the book is!

MY favourite story in the Bible was when Adonai asked Solomon what he wanted most in life, Sol replied WISDOM…and most wisdom has to be gleaned from books.

EminemsRevenge on September 11, 2010 at 1:48 pm

    EminemsRevenge: another Muslim “philosopher.”

    “Burning the American flag is the First Amendment at it’s finest, and theologically, such an action is religiously correct since adulation of the flag is equivalent to IDOLATRY!”

    By “religiously correct,” I assume you refer to the Religion of Peace? Both Judaism and Christianity recognize that a state’s flag is NOT a religious symbol and therefore does NOT involve idolatry. For Islam, however, anything other than Mo 24/7 is indeed idolatry.

    “Burning ANY book, though, is not only contrary to the First Amendment. . . ”

    Utterly ridiculous. On what basis do you make this claim? There is no question whatsoever that the First Amendment allows burning one’s own books, no matter what they contain.

    “but it’s almost always sinful…no matter WHAT the book is!”

    “Sinful”? Again, true only for the RoP.

    “MY favourite story in the Bible was when Adonai asked Solomon what he wanted most in life, Sol replied WISDOM…and most wisdom has to be gleaned from books.”

    Talk about sin! You think you’ll dazzle anyone by using a name of G-d for this unseemly purpose? Why don’t you use the Muslim name of Allah, as this is what you have in mind anyway?

    It’s not that I think book burning is generally a good idea. But it becomes a good idea when it serves a good political and moral purpose. In this case, the purpose is to assert the right to reject the perfidy of Islam.

    Now, I know you finished your month-long pagan ritual, so you finally have some energy, but can’t you use it more profitably elsewhere?

    skzion on September 11, 2010 at 2:54 pm

      Given the chance, muslim “philosopher” EminemsRevenge and his kind would burn every book they could get their hands on that doeesn’t agree with islamic philosophy. Which BTW doesn’t leave much except the Queeran and his latest issue of Dancing Boy Monthly.

      theShadow on September 11, 2010 at 5:12 pm

One more thing. The USMC knows the score with the muzzies quite well from over 200 years of fighting them. If only the Marines of today had the rules of engagement that they had in 1801, we might not have the problem with the muzzies that we do now. They would cower in fear of the US.

My suggestion for the next koran desecration – let’s have a Wipe Your Ass With Some Pages Out of the Koran Day?

Jarhead on September 11, 2010 at 1:49 pm

To the Jews that are supporting this pastor. Did you know that he contends that all people of non-Christian faiths are from the Devil? You can read this in his deposition, in which he also recommended Torahs be burnt as well.

Zionist Muslim on September 11, 2010 at 5:49 pm

    Zionist Muslim, as a rule I believe nothing that a Muslim says. However, in the case of your name, I believe 50% of it.

    What “deposition” are you talking about? Can’t you even lie effectively? And where precisely did he urge Torahs to be burned? In fact, your imam instructed you to say “Talmuds,” because that is the libel now being circulated. But hey, both begin with “T.” (I’d like to see a Christian of any kind burn the “Old Testament. What rubbish!)

    I listened to an interview the pastor had with a fairly agile Jew-hater. The pastor obviously lacks experience dealing with this type. He knows almost nothing about Judaism and hasn’t given it much thought, but he knows a bit about Islam. As he has not had contact with Jew-haters, he doesn’t know their ploys. But he utterly refused to say what the Jew-hater wanted him to say. I expect he will go back and try to do a bit of homework in preparation for next time.

    You get an “F” for your infiltration here. I hope your imam isn’t watching.

    skzion on September 11, 2010 at 8:54 pm

@skzion
The deposition you asked for is in this link: http://www.scribd.com/doc/37212095/Deposition-of-Terry-Jones
If you turn to page 106 of the above, you will see that Jones clearly states that Hinduism, Buddhism, and Judaism are all inspired works of the devil. And to address your point about Jones’ “knowledge, or lack thereof, Jones admits in the same deposition that the only basis for his hatred against Islam is from YouTube videos, and “his stay in Germany”. On a sidenote, the church he worked for in Germany is trying to distance themselves from him on the grounds that he is an egotistical maniac.
You also say that I’m a liar. I get that a lot. People in the Internet aren’t used to seeing Muslims who coincidentally are Zionists. I’m a Muslim and I still believe in Israel’s inherent right to exist, regardless of what its Arabic neighbors want the world to believe.

Zionist Muslim on September 11, 2010 at 9:15 pm

    Zionist Muslim, when I am wrong, I admit it. But I doubt I am wrong about you.

    In the first place, I notice that you have dropped that whole “Burn the Torah–I mean Talmud” business. This matter shows you for what you are. It is, as they say, “dispositive.”

    Second, the link you gave is some gif from Youtube. But I did a web search. Yes, the poor pastor was badgered by a well-paid lawyer in a deposition that, so far as I can tell, is unrelated to the present issue. The lawyer started off with polytheistic religions to get the momentum up, then asked about Judaism. As I have said earlier on this blog, the pastor is not a brainiac. But of course, the pastor is not suggesting burning Torahs, Hindu, or Buddhist religious texts, is he? No, he reserves this for Islam.

    BTW, I notice that you do not come around here except when you are on the “Muslim side.” I think that tells me everything I need to know about you.

    Finally, no doctrinally correct Muslim can be a Zionist. If you had been here before and established a track record, I could believe that you misunderstand your religion and are not doctrinally correct in your thinking. However, I see no reason to cut you any slack.

    Try fooling someone more gullible.

    skzion on September 11, 2010 at 10:16 pm

The 10 international medical aid workers listed below were murdered without provocation in Nuristan Province, Afghanistan, on August 5, 2010, without a single Koran being burned.

Dr Tom Little, 61, Delmar, NY, optometrist
Dr Thomas Grams, 51, Durango, CO, dentist
Dr Karen Woo, 36, UK, surgeon, engaged to be married
Dan Terry, 63, WI, getting aid from org to those in need
Cheryl Beckett, 32, Knoxville TN, nutritional gardening
Glen Lapp, 35, Lancaster, PA, nurse
Brian Carderelli, 25, Harrisonburg, VA, videographer
Daniela Beyer, 35, Chemnitz, Germany, translator
Mahram Ali, 50, Wardak province, security
Jawed, 24, Panjshir province, cook

The lone survivor – the Afghan driver – was spared because he quoted the Koran.

2008: 4 International Rescue Committee workers were murdered by islamoterrorists outside of Kabul. Also not involving Korans.

2009: Ft Hood mass murder by a Muslim in the name of Islam was not preceded by burning Korans and was attributed to workplace stress.

2009: The attempted Christmas Day bombing (the date coincidence of course) was not provoked by burning Korans.

2010: The attempted mass murder of anonymous people in Times Square was not provoked by burning Korans.

2001: Mass murder of close to 3000 people by Muslims in the name of Islam without a single Koran being burned.

On and on.

How many outreach programs from the Muslim world work with non-Muslims in any capacity in the US?

Is there a single outreach program sponsored by the Muslim world anywhere in the world that has absolutely nothing to do with Islam?

The issue has nothing to do with burning the Koran. The Muslim world would have heard nothing about it if the media wasn’t pushing islamophobia propaganda.

Evil begets evil. There is no need for incitement – only to find justification for the act. And saying that anything anyone in the US does or doesn’t do will prevent or provoke what hate-filled islamoterrorists do is giving them that justification. Worse, it is giving them power. It is showing them that their burning of the American flag (which no one in the media has a problem with) and yelling Death to America! works (even though no one has actually done anything) and that the American media is more than willing to push the “islamophobia” propaganda for them.

The pastor has the right to do whatever crazy thing he wants within the law on his property. Just like the 9-11 mosquites have a right to do whatever they want.

The real issue: Why is the media pushing the man’s propaganda at this very moment? And why aren’t they telling the Muslim world the full truth about him, starting with the fact that he speaks for only 50 people in a nation of over 300M and has been talking anti-Islam for years.

Who do you believe is responsible for causing outrage in the Muslim world: the pastor or the media?

NancyB on September 11, 2010 at 10:34 pm

@skzion

In an interview with a video podcaster online, Terry Jones agreed to “throw in a couple Talmuds” in the fire. I would link the source, but that would cause you to accuse me of linking “some gif to Youtube”, so use your apt Google skills if you want proof of this.

Second, you seem to defend Jones’ bigotry and chalk it all up to ignorance. As a Jew, I would expect you to be a bit more offended when he says that Judaism is of the Devil. But you just let it slide and admit he’s no brainiac.

Thirdly, I’ve been on this site several months ago, when I first read Debbie’s article on the flotilla incident. I was heavily supportive of the Palestinian side until I started reading more and more of Debbie’s articles and realized that the Israelis were the ones who were bullied by the International community into a state of forced limbo. She changed my views on the situation in the Middle East, and although I’ve been quiet in the forums, I supported her views on Israel 100%.

“Finally, no doctrinally correct Muslim can be a Zionist”. That’s where you’re wrong. I discovered several verses in the Koran which does point to the fact that the Jews were given their own land by the Lord of the scriptures. And if you’re going to berate me about not being “religious” enough, I would point you to many Orthodox Jewish sites that insist the Talmud condemns the state of Israel. But again, you would probably accuse me of linking “some gif to Youtube”.

I don’t know you, and you don’t know me. I’m not asking for your respect, but please don’t try this patronizing, “holier-than-thou” rhetoric on me. It won’t work.

Zionist Muslim on September 11, 2010 at 10:43 pm

    Zionist Muslim, I’m not going to make a habit out of chasing down evidence for your claims. I will simply note here that when I tried to find this alleged video podcast days ago (before you mentioned it), I could not. If you want to provide a link, all you need do is be sure that the linked source is what you describe it to be. Do you find this unfair?

    As for the pastor, I seriously doubt he even knows what a Talmud is.

    I see that you’ve backtracked from the “burn a Torah” accusation. Look, you come on here and say something that I know to be extremely unlikely (i.e., the Torah burning). Even if I believe that you’ve had second thoughts about Israel in one particular, you still identify yourself as a follower of Mo. I am sure there were a few “good Germans” in Nazi Germany who joined the party for practical reasons but who did not want Jews killed. Right now, in my eyes, that is your position, at best.

    [Second, you seem to defend Jones’ bigotry and chalk it all up to ignorance. As a Jew, I would expect you to be a bit more offended when he says that Judaism is of the Devil. But you just let it slide and admit he’s no brainiac.]

    If I wanted to be sensitive, I could also be offended by his anti-gay comments. But you see, I have my priorities. As there was only one (1) religious figure in this country who was temporarily willing to burn a Koran, I cut him some slack. It is vitally important for messages like his to get out there, even if the messenger is not ideal.

    [“Finally, no doctrinally correct Muslim can be a Zionist”. That’s where you’re wrong. I discovered several verses in the Koran which does point to the fact that the Jews were given their own land by the Lord of the scriptures.]

    If I take you at your word, you have just established that you do not know your own religion. You cannot just pluck out some verses (which?) and proclaim that the Koran or Islam supports Zionism. First, the Koran is not the only source of canonical Islam–you need to add the hadiths and the authoritative biographies of Mo. Second, some very important verses of the Koran are abrogated by later verses. As I said, canonical Islam is not Zionist. That is why the top Islamic scholars (e.g., at Al-Azhar University) are not Zionists.

    [And if you’re going to berate me about not being “religious” enough, I would point you to many Orthodox Jewish sites that insist the Talmud condemns the state of Israel. But again, you would probably accuse me of linking “some gif to Youtube”.]

    Irrelevant. We are discussing canonical Islam, not Judaism. There are various Jewish opinions regarding the formation of the state of Israel. There is no AUTHORITATIVE source of Islamic jurisprudence that is Zionist.

    [I don’t know you, and you don’t know me. I’m not asking for your respect, but please don’t try this patronizing, “holier-than-thou” rhetoric on me. It won’t work.]

    I don’t know you, but I have met, in person and online, so many Muslims that I have pretty much seen it all. Of course I am holier than you are, as you are a Muslim. I also either know more about Islam than you do, or you are lying about what you know. If you want to renounce Islam and adopt a decent religion, more power to you. At that point, I will reevaluate.

    skzion on September 12, 2010 at 4:31 pm

Thank you for all that Debbie! I will go ahead an plan for the next offense. you really opened my eye’s. and what do they say…hand me the flag and I’ll carry it from here! Watch and see!

Amedeo Bianchi on September 11, 2010 at 11:40 pm

wow thanks for the heads up on Brigitte Gabriel, she really made up the story about herself in lebanon? i retweeted her act for america shit, oops

K: Yes, the whole story about her hiding in a cave or whatever and getting water for her parents with the pantyhose is fraud, and she got caught changing her story, when she got caught lying and needed to, um, “amend” it. Wake up. She’s a fake. The only thing true about her story is that she was born in Lebanon and later lived in Israel. The rest is fiction. DS

keithmobile73 on September 12, 2010 at 12:02 am

Yes, after much thought on the subject I decided that the proper leadership response should be something like this: “While it is not a government sanctioned event, every American has the right to free speech. While it is not something I would do, we uphold the right of every American to protest and speak their mind, and we even protect the right of non-American citizens to do the same. That is America…that is why people come here, why they raise their children here, and why they love America, because Americans are free. That may challenge the thought patterns of other people, but it does not threaten them physically. Physical threats and harm are not tolerated here, but freedom of thought is. Let freedom ring.” If I were a leader, that is what I would say.

Mz Brown on September 12, 2010 at 12:15 am

I note the PC spelling of “Quran.” Must show respect for the Bnei Amalek!

skzion on September 11, 2010 at 2:40 pm

Tell me, does Robert Spencer also refer to it as the “Qur’an” in order to be PC?

Get your facts straight. One of the best ways to know Islam for this oppressive miserable belief system it is, is by studying it and knowing its terminology. It’s good for people to build their vocabulary of Islamic terms.

Don’t knock people who are on your side for nothing.

SG: Robert Spencer sure ain’t on my side. He’s on his own side. And that’s it. He’s been contacting people and websites telling them not to link to my work and he’s behind Scamela Geller’s attempt to invite a co-honor killer mother to their self-promoting Rifqa Bary rally. DS

Shy Guy on September 12, 2010 at 12:44 am

    Shy Guy asks:

    “does Robert Spencer also refer to it as the “Qur’an” in order to be PC?”

    In part yes, SG. Spencer uses this spelling, I’d guess, because he thinks it allows him to go after Islam more effectively. Our Kate–whom you think is on our side, though you supply no evidence–has not shown any evidence of a similar motivation. Rather, her use of the spelling seems affected and preachy, in favor of Islam.

    “Get your facts straight. One of the best ways to know Islam for this oppressive miserable belief system it is, is by studying it and knowing its terminology. It’s good for people to build their vocabulary of Islamic terms.”

    Tilting at windmills again, SG. I am not suggesting one shouldn’t build up a vocabulary of Islamic terms. How exactly, though, does adopting a particular spelling of a term (e.g., “Koran”) constitute “building a vocabulary”? Unlike you, I have regularly posted important links here for key readings (including some by Spencer). “Koran,” however spelled, is the same term. One can study Islam without suggesting in any way a deference to its practitioners.

    Please think more carefully in the future before unloading. In particular, you might actually read the relevant comments before setting pen to paper.

    skzion on September 12, 2010 at 1:43 pm

Is it some sort of a secret code?

Shy Guy on September 12, 2010 at 1:20 pm

That was unintelligible, Jerry.

Anyway, Ted Belman supported the Disengagement and now lies about have done so. I’ve provided a link.

http://my.opera.com/skZion/blog/2008/09/09/ted-belman-he-supported-the-disengagement-expulsion-before-he-was-against-it

skzion on September 12, 2010 at 3:51 pm

As Imam Rauf declared victory today and did his victory dance on the Sunday morning shows, Muslims will see this as another brick in the wall as we continue to surrender to Islamic terrorism. He boldy states that the Koran burning and mosque relocation would only inspire terrorism. Our response was to cave into fear. KING HUSSEIN OBAMA played the fear card on the masses with his PSYOPS campaign to muzzle dissent. According to OBAMA, if you protest Islam you are now not only a bigot or hater but now you are unAmerican because you support putting troops in harms way.

CaliforniaScreaming on September 12, 2010 at 4:31 pm

    Disgusting news, Screamer. Haven’t we all seen this movie before? Islam makes an outrageous incursion. Some people don’t like it. Muslims then say that they are being attacked in some way (which they instigated by their original outrage) and “defensively” must wage war.

    Of course, the appropriate response would be to begin shutting down mosques, as they are the nerve center of this mafia.

    skzion on September 12, 2010 at 4:40 pm

@skzion
Read Quran 5:20-21 and 7:137. Again, you accuse me of being a liar, and equate me to a “good” Nazi, which is one of the worst insults a person in the planet can designate another. So far, my views and your views don’t seem that much different. I see you support the state of Israel; I do to. You consider the pastor a dim-witted idiot. I do too. But you seem to insist that I’m lying or don’t follow my religion correctly. Believe it or not, we’re on the same side of the debate.

Zionist Muslim on September 12, 2010 at 4:49 pm

    ZM, you say

    “Read Quran 5:20-21 and 7:137.”

    You are simply not following accepted interpretive practices, ZM. Your mistake is comparable to that of a lawyer who cites a ruling that has since been reversed. I do not know the ins and outs of the history of those suras, whether they have been abrogated, how they have been viewed against the authoritative volumes of hadiths, or how they have been related to the biographies of Mo.

    However, all that said, your interpretation would have to take into account, at minimum, that Mo considered Moses (Musa) and all the rest of the Jewish biggies Muslims. The Jews then living in Arabia (let alone Eretz Israel) were said to lie about their texts, to hide the “fact” that all the Jewish biggies were really Muslims, leading the way to Mo, the final Muslim prophet. How then could Islam accept a state where the same Jews who lied about the Torah are in control? How can any Muslim scholar accept that this land, which was once Dar al-Islam, is now Dar al-Harb? This latter fact is precisely what keeps all the money and support flowing to the Fakestinians.

    “Again, you accuse me of being a liar, and equate me to a “good” Nazi, which is one of the worst insults a person in the planet can designate another.”

    Actually, I said that either you did not know your religion or you were lying about it. I now think the former is more likely.

    “Believe it or not, we’re on the same side of the debate.”

    ZM, I now think you are sincerely in a crisis of faith. The problem is that only a few fringe Muslims agree with your take on Islam. So the question in my mind is simply whether you will eventually be subsumed back into the umma or will become an apostate. The religion you take to be Islam is NOT Islam, any more than Reform Judaism is Judaism. The difference is simply that lots of Jews are Reform Jews, but few Muslims are Zionist Muslims.

    skzion on September 12, 2010 at 7:20 pm

Seriously when was the last time a President or General ever interfered with civilian matters regarding a free speech matter? This President has decided to side with Muslims. If the government has now decided to take sides on individual personal liberties then we MUST decide how we will individually respond to our government.

CaliforniaScreaming on September 12, 2010 at 6:16 pm

And to think, this poor excuse of a woman actually gets paid to keep on spreading the internet, with her skewed grasp of politics, truly baffles the mind.

Just goes to show, someone may look beautiful, but contain a brain the size of a raisin.

M. Wasiq Sheikh on September 12, 2010 at 6:30 pm

@skzion, I appreciate the concern, but no, I’m not shaken from my faith. I think I know my faith well enough, having studied it weekly during my childhood, and having taken a Comparative Religions course, as well as reading several books on religious studies. So in reference to your point, I’m not in a crisis.
The verses I have shown you above give no reason to believe that the land of Israel is reserved to Muslim Jews only, otherwise it would have made the distinction of saying something to the effect of “except for the Children of Israel who have turned to paganism”. Furthermore, I don’t know if you know this, but Muslims do not consider Moses and the other “Jewish biggies” to be Muslims, per se. Judaism and Christianity were both, in Muslims’ opinion, the respective religions that the prophets practiced, UNTIL the rogue pagans edited the Injeel and the Tawrat in order to avoid doing their religious duties.
Not to be snide, but you must really be uninformed to suggest that I am not practicing TRUE Islam. The fundamental pillars of Islam are the Shahada, Sawm, Zakat, Hajj, and Salat, all of which if done regularly and correctly guarantee entry into heaven, provided one’s sins do not outweigh good deeds. I believe (and I know for sure that you’re going to disagree, but bear with me) that my religion has been hijacked to the point of incredulity by terrorists and fanatics who want to exterminate the world order. I’ve no doubt in my mind that these people are going straight to hell. And no, this is not some “fringe babble” by some “progressive reformist” (I’m as conservative as Debbie), this is a commonly held point of view shared by hundreds of millions of Muslims who would like nothing less than the termination of these fanatics. Statistics alone prove my point of view.

MS on September 12, 2010 at 7:45 pm

    MS, I was mildly sympathetic, but then you squandered your capital in making patently absurd claims about the Muslim mass (“this is a commonly held point of view shared by hundreds of millions of Muslims who would like nothing less than the termination of these fanatics”). I direct you to Bostom’s two books (The Legacy of Jihad: Islamic Holy War and the Fate of Non-Muslims, and The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism: From Sacred Texts to Solemn History).

    “The fundamental pillars of Islam are the Shahada, Sawm, Zakat, Hajj, and Salat, all of which if done regularly and correctly guarantee entry into heaven, provided one’s sins do not outweigh good deeds.”

    Ah yes, but sins such as befriending Jews against Muslims will send you straight to hell. I’m reminded of Clinton: “that depends on what the meaning of ‘is’ is.” Shahada: Mo as a prophet? Have you read Ishaq’s authoritative biography of Mo? You want to defend Mo as a ideal man? Zakat: only to Muslims, and commonly used to underwrite the subjugation of non-believers. Hajj: circumambulate around that meteorite, and cherish the Apartheid of Arabia.

    MS, I have no interest in communicating with those who deny the genocides perpetrated by Muslims from the first days of Islam (against the Jews of Arabia, for example) to the present day. You are an apologist for a murderous cult. Since you have no crisis of faith, I can see you only as a tool of murder. Sorry, but our back-and-forth is at an end.

    skzion on September 12, 2010 at 9:13 pm

This is Zionist Muslim.

MS on September 12, 2010 at 7:46 pm

There is something about Bridgette Gabriel that I don’t trust, for a long time—( long before I read your comments Debbie,) I had a check in my spirit about her.
Your documentation has confirmed my suspicions about her–Thank You.

From some experiences on Facebook and a personal experience with a former Muslim friend who called herself a Christian, I have learned that those who call themselves Christians from the Middle East, consider Christianity far different than I—
What they say and do are two different things.

I have found these middle eastern Christians to be very political, Not really for Israel, or the true Christianity of America (between Jews and Christians)
If have found them to talk the talk, but they don’t walk the walk—deceptive.

About Mr. Jones…
I respect Mr. Jones right to burn a Q’uran, but there is something about his motive that I am not trusting.
Also his history is not good, He claimed to have a doctorate, until he was confronted about it. It proved to be false after all….as well as many other disturbing facts about his past church in Germany.

That’s not someone I would trust as a Pastor.

I agree that there should be “More Outrage at the death threats” this man received, than there should be at the suggestion of him burning a Q’uran…

But there is a question that lingers with me…
If burning a Q’uran was so important to Mr. Jones…why didn’t he and his church members have their own “Burning of a Q’uran” on the grounds of his church?

He could have done that….What was stopping him from doing that at his own church without all the Hoopla?

Again, It is Mr. Jones motives that I don’t trust.

Either way great confrontation is coming between America and the Islamic world ~
I beleive the beginning or the first confrontation was in OKC, OK with the bombing of the Murrah Building– We have been at war ever since. The attacks keep getting bigger and bigger.

We need to develop security measures such as Israel, and we need to do it as of Yesterday!– in order to survive the next few years as a country.

Miss Truth on September 12, 2010 at 8:13 pm

From Israel National News:

“Despite the cancellation of the Koran burning by Jones, several similar incidents took place: In Springfield, Tennessee, evangelical pastors Bob Old Danny Allen burned Koran books, while in New York an unidentified man ripped pages from a Koran and lit them near the proposed site of the Islamic centre. “If they can burn American flags, I can burn the Koran,” he said.”

Alas, does an action occur if only an Israeli settler newspaper prints it?

skzion on September 12, 2010 at 9:25 pm

@skzion Scroll up to my previous comments and remind me when I supposedly denied the genocides perpetrated by Muslims. Go ahead. But you really can’t, because I haven’t defended those murderers in any way.

“You are an apologist for a murderous cult”. By “cult”, are you referencing Islam? By its very definition, a cult is a “relatively small group of people having religious believes perceived by others as strange”. I would hardly be inclined to refer to 1.5 billion people as “relatively small”. I would be even less inclined to paint everyone as a terrorist or even an apologist to evil people. It’s no secret that the radicals hide behind the moderates; the problem is that moderates are also unjustly categorized as being the same as the fanatics.

Our back and forth is over? Ok. I didn’t feel this was going anywhere either, given your repeated attempts to vilify me despite my condemnations of the fanatics, and without knowing the first thing about me.

MS on September 12, 2010 at 9:32 pm

It seems that Jerry is quite mad.

skzion on September 12, 2010 at 10:00 pm

@skzion, though I disagree with you on issues regarding sexuality , I do agree with you on issue regarding Islam. At some point we MUST challange Islam as a Civilized group of people. I respect your voice. Your voice is above the narrative being put out by the MSM.

CaliforniaScreaming on September 13, 2010 at 5:52 am

    Thanks for the kind words, CS.

    skzion on September 13, 2010 at 6:39 pm

Hey Jarhead long time , still doing what is neccessary, but unfortunately things are going to get a lot worse. Things are deteriorating, but as they say one bullet at a time. Keep the faith brother.

Drakken on September 13, 2010 at 5:50 pm

As we say back home, Revend Jones knows where the media keeps their goat, and he got it.

burt on September 14, 2010 at 8:40 am

This is a difficult discussion because it evokes unconscious fears and images, and elides essential distinctions.

Let me be clear:
Government burning of books is anathema. Individual burning of books one owns (providing no violence occurs at the time, and there is no incitement to violence) is a property right of those who own those books. Burning books another owns, without their permission, is a violation of law.

The Constitutional principles are related to some other comments here as well. There is no right to have one’s screed published on another’s blog. Freedom of the press, as one wag remarked, belongs to those who own presses. Freedom of the press, like freedom of speech, is a physic against government interference.

As to all those arguing that it may be legal but it’s not smart, surely such statements should be couched as suggestions, not prescriptive injunctions. It is up to the actor involved to decide if it is “smart” or not, and it is up to the courts to decide if it is legal or not. Since I am neither, I do not posit that it’s not smart. If I think so privately, my recourse is to refuse to have anything to do with the individual involved or those who agree with him, and to refuse to support them financially.

Let me be clear: This post is not about the Koran (Qu’ran for purists) itself. Having read it, and checked some of the original arabic rather than the apologetics of some revisionist interpreters, I find it a book filled with injunctions to prejudice, religious, racial, and gender discrimination, subjugation, murder, and other reprehensible practices, and I find some of “the Prophet’s” own official history to be no better. And I find from the evidence that many of these injunctions are seen by many of today’s Islamists as currently valid in practice, not some historical artifact no longer relevant.

As to those who would defend Islam through denial or outright falsification, let us recall that a key doctrine of Islam is Al Taqiyya–that it is no sin to lie to advance Islam. In the words of the old joke, “How can you tell that an Islamist is lying?” “His lips are moving.”

Finally and more generally, in extremis one should bear in mind the words of a wise Justice: “The Constitution is not a suicide pact.”

Note: I use “Islamist” in the currently accepted context of one who supports radical islam, including terrorism, murder, violence, dhimmitude, subjugation, and other reprehensible practices in the name of the Islamic religion.

Commentator on September 16, 2010 at 3:56 am

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