May 16, 2012, - 3:24 am

MORON: Bush Praises Arab Spring; George W. – Father of Islamic “Democracy’

By Debbie Schlussel

Al-Dubya-mockracy (emphasis on the “mock” part) is a deadly failure. But its brainless creator still doesn’t get it–that he did the jihadists’ work for them.

I would say the moron of the day award goes to George W. Bush for praising the Arab Spring bloodbath that ushered in Al-Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood in Tunisia, Libya, Syria, Egypt, and so on and so forth. But, actually, in this case, he’s the moron of the decade, since he preached Islamic democracy ever since 9/11 and even before that. He’s the father of the Arab Spring, NOT Obama. I warned against this back in 2006, and predicted back then that the Muslim Brotherhood would take over Egypt. And I noted again and again that democracy ain’t for Muslims–savages and barbarians who need an authoritarian dictator to keep them in line. It is only for civilizations, something Bush just doesn’t get.

missionaccomplished.jpgislamiccrescent.jpg

Praise allah: Bush’s Worldwide Jihad Accomplished

George W. Bush drove out the only Sunni obstacle to the Middle East’s Shi’ite Crescent and Shi’ite Revolution, sending American boys to die in the name of Islamic “democracy” in Iraq that put in place Hezbollah-supporting, Iran-backed Shi’ites and drove the Christians and many Sunnis out. He’s the father of the Arab Spring because he insisted on free elections in Gaza, then–after spending gazillions in your tax money to campaign for Fatah/PLO terrorists, he and Condi Clueless were shocked–shocked!–when HAMAS was elected. He also pushed Hezbollah into power in Lebanon, insisting on more liberalized elections there, too.

So, the “Arab Spring” now is his doing, something I warned against during his administration, but no one listened. And now we have the fruits of his idiocy. And, yet, despite all evidence to the contrary, Bush insists his Islamic democracy experiment worked . . . the claim only a moron or a liar–or both–could make. Funny, though, that Bush doesn’t insist on democracy and free elections in Saudi Arabia or any of the Gulf States. But, then, if his Sheikh and Royal friends were driven out of these places, who would pay for his–and Bill Clinton’s and Barack Obama’s–Presidential Library or many hundred-thousand dollar speeches? Interesting how that push for democracy in the Muslim world works, isn’t it?

The United States must stand by reformists in the Middle East and North Africa as the euphoria of revolution gives way to the tough work of building democratic societies, former U.S. President George W. Bush said on Tuesday.


Bush, who launched the 2003 invasion of Iraq that deposed Saddam Hussein, called the Arab Spring “the broadest challenge to authoritarian rule since the collapse of Soviet communism.”

Uh, no, moron. It’s the broadest challenge to the survival of the West since ever. And the broadest destabilization of the Middle East since the creation of the Mohammed myth and the enshrinement of the moongod cult now known as Islam.

However, he warned that the difficult path to democracy would test those societies and their supporters.

Wow, insightful stuff. How ’bout a more relevant term than “difficult”: impossible. Islam + “democracy” = tyranny.

“There are no guarantees, and there will certainly be setbacks,” he said in a speech in Washington. “But if America does not support the advance of democratic institutions and values, who will?”

Hey, here’s another similarly bright rhetorical question: If America does not support the bottling and selling of snake farts, who will?

Bush dismissed the arguments of those who saw inherent risks in democratic change in the Middle East and North Africa and felt the United States should be content “with supporting the flawed leaders they know in the name of stability.”

Um, a-hole, you are the one who made the agreement with Qaddafi that we then broke for no reason after a rapprochement and de facto peace with him. Yup, stability–who cares about that? What an over-rated concept when you can have anti-American Al-Qaeda yahoos elected all over the place . . . which is so much better, right? Whatta schmuck. But then we knew that . . . those of us with a brain not posting imbecillic, “Miss Me Yet?” billboards enshrining this idiot.

“It is not realistic to presume that so-called stability enhances our national security,” he said.

HUH????? And it’s not realistic to presume that monkey entrails taste like crap. This guy was really President of the United States?

Bush called on the United States to help reformers build civic institutions and political parties, draw up constitutions, hold elections and establish the rule of law and property rights.

Um, we already did that, you dolt. And look at the result. This guy is truly the moron the left claimed he was and worse.

“It takes courage to ignite a freedom revolution,” he said. “But it also takes courage to secure a freedom revolution for future generations through structural reform.

“Both types of bravery deserve our strong support.”

WHAT?! Structural reform. Hey, dumbass, look at the Egyptian parliament dominated by extremists. That’s your structural reform. Ditto for HAMASastan, which came to “life” under your watch.

G-d, this guy’s a putz.

The 65-year-old Bush . . . made the remarks at an event where he accepted the papers of late Czech leader Vaclav Havel for the “Freedom Collection” of documents and artifacts from dissidents at the George W. Bush Institute in Dallas, Texas.

Vaclav Havel is spinning in his grave asking this dumb American to shut the bleep up. The nerve of this ignoramus to compare the European overthrow of Communism to the Muslim world’s self-rapture in Islamic extremism (a redundant phrase).

Still miss that idiot? If that brainless spouting wasn’t enough, here’s a reminder: his eight years of crap brought us at least four of Obama and maybe four of Bush extra-lite a/k/a Romney. And it changed the Middle East forever, and not in a good way. In fact, George W. Bush is the father of the destabilization of the Middle East forever.

Pat yourself on the back, Dubya. Heckuva job, stupid Habibi.

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43 Responses

“Pat yourself on the back, Dubya. Heckuva job, stupid Habibi.”

Funny, but sad.

Thanks for this great story, Debbie.

DS_ROCKS! on May 16, 2012 at 5:39 am

Yup.

Take a look at Abdel Fotouh (Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood presidential candidate) – he’s a “moderate” Islamist who hates Israel and admires Bin Laden.

And he could well be Egypt’s next President. That is what mindless support for democracy (brought to us by former President George W. Bush) in the Arab Muslim World will get us.

We can’t say we should be surprised when extremists rise to power there.

The handful of Islamic countries that are moderate and stable – such the Stans of Central Asia that have good relations with Israel are all governed by authoritarian regimes. We aren’t insisting they adopt democracy.

The Saudis and Gulf Arabs have repressive regimes but they are moderate compared to the newly emergent Arab Spring regimes. There is a reason they aren’t enthusiastic about Western democracy: their societies aren’t ready for it.

Americans have a provincial conceit that every one wants to be like us to have limited government, individual freedom and market economies. In some parts of the world that simply isn’t true at all and when the masses are given the chance, they vote themselves in an Islamic dictatorship.

Bush is a moron: democracy may be the worst of all forms of government and it doesn’t mean all peoples appreciate or want the blessings of freedom. And since Islam rejects Enlightenment values that gave rise to democracy in the West, the chances for it taking root in that part of the world are practically non-existent.

Its up to the critics to demonstrate democracy will moderate and civilize the Muslim World. To date no evidence exists to support the theory that is true. Just the opposite and Arabs and Muslims under “democracy” will be worse off and less free than before.

But don’t look for our former President to get why the Arab Spring is not going to usher in the kind of changes he wants. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out the Middle Eastern revolutions aren’t going to copy the post-Communist Eastern European revolutions and the twin casualties of it will be Israel’s ability to moderate things in the region and Western influence on what goes on over there.

Developments that will make us truly nostalgic for the pre-Bush “stability” days.

NormanF on May 16, 2012 at 5:45 am

Islam is only under controlled when it is confined to authoritarian states where the secular authorities have laid down the law ruthlessly. Societies that fail to do more than superfically shake off their tribal and sectarian characteristics cannot advance to a higher form of governance. Islam actively discourages any sort of social advance, and in fact finds even the notion of it extremely threatening. A society’s religious choices can either provide an enormous boost to the creation of civil society, or deprive a nation of any hope or future. Even when Islam began, it was one of the most reactionary and backward faiths, since it insisted upon reviving plygamy and energize what had been a declining slave trade beofre Islam’s arrival. Allah was never been compassionate or merciful, except when it was simply for show.

Worry01 on May 16, 2012 at 6:54 am

They don’t say too much about democracy in China either. And meanwhile, Chen Guangchen is waiting and waiting to hopefully travel to the US, and his family is suffering. The press has, by and large dropped this, including the Republicans and most conservatives. The State Department was embarrassed about it.

Great political thinkers in the 18th and 19th century warned constantly about the excesses of democracy, and the preconditions needed for it, such as a developed country with stable historical traditions, political homogeneity, and so on.

There have been a few liberals who have spoken about the need for Saudi democracy, but they have done so only sporadically, and their motives were short-term political gains, giving no thought to what would happen if ‘democracy’ were unleashed in Saudi Arabia.

And Democracy is taking its toll here in the US also. As many have said, we have over half the population getting government handouts — in places like California and Illinois it is even more, and of course in democratic elections they will vote for candidates who will give them more and more handouts at the expense of the evil capitalist taxpayers who foot the bill.

And Europe? On the verge of disintegrating into a group of warring cliques, with the Muslims ready to pounce. And of course they will continue to ask the overtaxed US taxpayers, those who are left, to pay for their democratic excesses.

Would Churchill have made his famous epigram today, if he had had more than 50 years to see the further excesses of democracy?

Little Al on May 16, 2012 at 7:59 am

Democracy only works if the population is educated (not indoctrinated) and virtuous morally and religiously (not enslaved to pop culture or to a cult like Islam).

Bush was a total failure because he surrounded himself with Jimmy Carteresque advisors, such as Condoleeza Rice. Does anybody remember that book that the Bush administration kept pushing, so that Americans would understand the philosophy behind their foreign policy? It was Natan Sharansky’s The Case For Democracy. He really believed that if only Muslim mothers could vote, then there would be peace throughout the Middle East.

JM on May 16, 2012 at 8:22 am

Absolutely spot on, Debbie – not only did Bush believe this hogwash about the Arab Spring, but he actually implimented its blueprint in Iraq. Today, Christians have fled there, and the government is a vassal of Iran.

But Debbie, I don’t know that removing the opposition to the Shia crescent was itself such a bad thing, and nor was Saddam’s opposition to it the ‘lone’ opposition. As can be seen by the opposing line-ups in Syria, there are plenty of Sunni taqfiris lined up on the side of Syria’s Sunnis – Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar and the Arab League in general, and among Jihadi groups, you have the Muslim Brotherhoods, al Qaeda, and even Hamas is said have switched sides and is now actively opposing the Assad regime, despite being in bed w/ them all these years. Heck, even a whole bunch of Pakistani Jihadis from the UK landed up in Syria to fight the Shia. So it’s not like the Shia crescent has a cakewalk, particularly in the most active battleground out there.

I also hope that the Sunnis do not manage to wipe out the Shia/Alawite opposition in Syria, and following that, Lebanon, Iraq and Iran. If they’re allowed to get a sole victory, the result will be a Sunni monolith, all set to threaten Israel again, but this time, w/ unlimited strategic depth – from Libya to Iraq, Turkey and Emirates, and 2 Muslim Brotherhood regimes in both Cairo and Damascus. That’s the last thing we need. I don’t pretend to like the Assad regime, which backs and is backed by Hizbullah, but if they fall, their replacement will be a clone of the new Egyptian regime, Hamas and al Qaeda. That too is one of the last things we need, even though Turkey and Saudi Arabia may be salivating at the prospects.

In Syria, the last few days, there have been Christian villages emptied of Christians by the Syrian Sunni forces. So the situation there is not good, and hopefully, they continue to massacre Sunnis, causing more Sunni Jihadis from outside to pour into Syria. Hope it escalates, and lasts as long as the Lebanese civil war did, or the Iran-Iraq war in the 80s, if not longer.

And I agree w/ you Debbie – why not have Arab Spring elections in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrein, Emirates and Kuwait? Right now, Yemen seems to be the most democratic country in the Arabian peninsula, and that’s saying something! Instead of the al Sauds and the al Hanafas and the al Thanis and the al Sabahs and the al crappas funding mosques, CAIR, dawa artists and other activities worldwide, encourage their ouster and let their democratic successors solely fund al jihad, starting w/ the Shia. In Saudi Arabia, a good portion of the population is Shia, and in the entire Middle East, Shia are 40% of the population. So let their money be solely spent of weapons, which can be used in fighting that war.

Back to Bush – and Natan Sharansky, who inspired that streak in him (incidentally, is Sharansky still a part of Netanyahu’s government?) – how about moving to, and living in, those high rise towers on the Gulf of Hormuz, where the lifestyle would be a lot luxurious than here? Same advice goes for Clinton and Obama. In fact, all of them can freely visit mosques @ will, and repeat even more inanities about Islam.

Infidel on May 16, 2012 at 8:28 am

    I just looked up Natan Sharansky in a search engine. He still doesn’t get it, as his comments on the Arab “Spring” show:

    “I believe that the free world—including Israel—will be responsive to the Arab street. Democratic reforms will produce great partners for peace negotiations and conditions for an agreement very quickly—in just a few years. In 1993, in 1996, in 2000, people said, “a few years is too much time,” and all we ended up with was terror. I say the peace process has no chance without democracy, with dictatorships whose people hate Israel.”
    http://www.momentmag.com/moment/issues/2011/06/IsraelsNextMove.html

    This is one reason that logic should be taught in schools. If a dictatorship happens to have people that hate Israel, the problem might not be the dictatorship, it could be the people themselves and the religion itself.

    But the Bush administration based their entire foreign policy on this logical fallacy because they refused to believe that Islam was anything but a peaceful religion.

    JM on May 16, 2012 at 9:07 am

      Natan Sharansky didn’t read the Arab Spring correctly.

      Democracy works fine when people preserve civilized values and freedom with their votes.

      It never works when people vote in another dictatorship to enslave themselves and make their society even more fanatical and oppressive.

      When people decide freely decide to do that, its not democracy. One man, one vote, one time.

      Everyone got Egypt and the liberal Facebook kids wrong and no one is willing to admit it was a disastrous mistake to throw out Mubarak. But don’t expect humility from Bush and the rest of the crowd that sold “democracy” as a cure-all for all the Arab World’s ills.

      They aren’t any different from the snake oil salesmen of an earlier age.

      NormanF on May 20, 2012 at 9:13 pm

Hey, wasn’t Bush the cretin who wanted to give our ports to Dubai? The people who facilitated 9/11? Maybe his ‘commission’ would have equalled the resultant carnage.

brickwood on May 16, 2012 at 8:53 am

Even though “W” had and has many flaws, just think what the world would be like now if Gore or Kerry had become POTUS. I’m not defending Bush, but I think those other two clowns would have completely surrendered to our enemies without the U.S. firing a shot.

Jarhead on May 16, 2012 at 9:23 am

Jarhead, I supported Bush at the time, but looking back now, neither Gore nor Kerry would have had us so involved in Islamic countries as Bush has. They were moronic in other major ways, but not this

Infidel on May 16, 2012 at 9:36 am

President G.W.Bush was in office Eight years! He was empowered to made decisions! Those decisions whether they worked out with good results,kind of ok results,or Oh no! we’ve got trouble now! results, were his to make having Congress with him,or not with him! The positives and negatives of his presidency are out there for all to debate if they choose! I like President Bush! I believe he made decisions based on what was best for America! The Irag invasion went forward! I had hoped containment would have been the continued call! The President had information that told him a positive result would come from his course of action! I’m not in command of information that the president had! If I was, that wouldn’t have made any difference, because I am not the president! President G.W. Bush was in command! His choices were good regardless of my opinion! WE have a current President who is leading the country down a path to totalitarianism! I have thoughts about names I could use for him! Each time I try to find a word or words to show my disagreement with him, I remember how fragile I am in this society! The current President is not some fragile Lily that forcefull raindrops will damage or destroy! The former President,President George W. Bush is a hearty flower,plant,tree, that also is not damaged by forcefull raindrops! debbie Schlussel is articulate,and her first name is the same as my former wife! I am hard pressed to think with word names that are a reproach about debbie when I think of her warm smile; that’s not to say I’m in agreement with her finding a new husband! I like debbie Schlussels’ SPUNK! I just don’t care to talk that way myself if I can help it! I’ll let the BIG GIRLS talk for me!

williamwalter on May 16, 2012 at 10:34 am

    William, YOU DON’T GET IT!

    C’mon! If you come here and read DS I hope you would be smarter than your rambling post!

    You or I may not have know all this back-in-the-day but DS DID! That tells you that there was something to KNOW and UNDERSTAND! We were ignorant of the FACTS but DS was NOT!

    And if DS was NOT than the President SHOULDN’T BE IGNORANT…or bowing to Saudis against the best interest of USA.

    C’mon! The truth is the truth. The Liberals did make GWB out to be a monster but don’t let the fact that they had no idea of the FACTS convince you that he didn’t do something that may hurt America for a long time! Wise up!

    (Little Al, thanks for bringing up Chenguan Chen. I noticed the Obama-Putin media has conveeeeeeeeniently forgotten about him.)

    Skunky on May 16, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    Skunky! I think I understood the former President G.W. Bush, made a decision that was not a good one! I said, I had hoped containment would have been the continued call! Concerning Former President George H.W.Bush, I believe he was asked for help by Kuwait! Maybe if he had refused, Sadam Hussein would have kept Kuwait and then swept north to Syria, etc! Would have been great! I believe Sadam should have been left to his own devices, and he would have dealt with the religion he was part of as he chose! I believe Sadam was counting on us to back him in a sweep of Islam! He then would have been our ally who we would always watch carefully with greatfulness! That’s my opinion! The point is: To disparage a former President with names I don’t feel are appropiate,doesn’t help the situatuion!The reasoning with courteous talk keep tempers in check, and let’s people focus on the issue which has troubled many! A case in point! My brand new wife tried to spoon(or fork) feed me wedding cake in front of our guests! I politely said “Don’t do it Deb!” She proceeded to try! I reached gently out and took her hand with the cake and utensil in mine! As I smiled at her and gently moved the cake towards my face, she relaxed! I then quickly and gently smeared the cake all over her mouth!
    She was sport enough to put on an expression of mild annoyance, and her eyes glared at me! I then gently started to wipe the icing from her lips, and though she resisted, I gathered her in one arm tenderly and finished it! She still was angry! but she waited three years to leave me! I got three years with a wife I might never have gotten, and since then never have! I didn’t call her a nasty name, or roughly grab her hand! I just firmly stopped her action! I disagree with the attack on Iraq, I disagree with rough language, when a smile with sweet words bite just as deep! Skunky is your name for this reply you gave me? I was once sprayed twice by a skunk from over forty feet away on a twenty five degree night in Rhode Island, the skunk was of who knows what gender! It hit me across the chest and the second shot got me across my left cheek and ear! Terrible! But that skunk respected me! It never said an unkind word! or any word! I, Skunky, believe I get the issue of subtefuge with information, and the wrongness of what went on with Kuwait and Iraq! If you feel I still don’t get it; don’t worry; I like reading this posting place! I’m sure in time I’ll see more clearly on issues presented for discussion! wallyworkswell.

    williamwalter on May 16, 2012 at 5:32 pm

      OMG, WW I wish you wrote better and used paragraphs! Not that I wasn’t amused at some parts but c’mon! If you wanna be heard (and read) being coherent goes a loooooooong way! Even if you’re missing the point, a well written sentence (and paragraph) is hard to ignore!

      Skunky on May 16, 2012 at 5:58 pm

Infidel, Gore would have been a pussy and would have hid under his desk, and Kerry would have done like his french comrades and surrendered. I prefer to die standing, not on my knees. I also supported Bush, and I am not defending him for the stupid shit that Debbie so brilliantly points out in her great posts. But,.. we all had a choice and did the same with Bush like we will do with Romney, we will go into the voting booth and pull the lever for the RINO.

Jarhead on May 16, 2012 at 10:34 am

George Bush was a major failure who defeated the war on terror on his own and directly led to Obama’s massive victory.

His appearance at the 9/11 memorial with Clinton where no mention at all was made of the Islamic terror was very symbolic of the total defeat of the American anti terror effort at his hands.

facts of life on May 16, 2012 at 10:49 am

Anyone looks good compared to Obama.

burt on May 16, 2012 at 11:14 am

Again, this posting is right on the button. Immediately after 9/11 then President Bush spoke about Islam being a religion of peace. At the prayer ceremony following the attacks the Muslim spokesperson was Muzamil Siddiqui, a known Muslim Brotherhood figure.

Also it should be mentioned that President Bush and his foreign policy team acquiesced in permitting the Iraqi constitution to acknowledge sharia as the primary engine of the state. That was the death knell for any sort of democracy, though truly, one would not be possible anyway. Islam and democracy are incompatible.

Gloria Stewart on May 16, 2012 at 11:30 am

Boy Debbie I’d hate to get on your editorial bad side. You once again hit one out of the park. GWB like GHWB was not a conservative. His big spending domestically and his horrible foreign policy were both destructive to our nation. That’s just putiing it mildly. His blind faith in “democracy” in Gaza(Hamas), Lebanon(Hezbollah)and Iraq(Al-Qaeda) was a good thing? Says who. It was strange that he didn’t push this “democracy” on that crap country of Saudi Arabia. He also thought that, along with certain talk show hosts that the Dubai ports deal was a good idea. This is what you get when you have advisors like numbskulls Karl Rove and Condi Rice.
His fecklessness in my humble opinion is why we have an inexperienced moron in the White House now. As Doktor Phil would say, “Howzat Arab Spring in Egypt workin’ for ya?” I’m sure the White House guesses the Muslim Brotherhood think that it’s going great. Methinks the lesser intelligent of GHWB’s sons became president back in 2000. But that’s not saying much when compared to the genius currently in office.

Ken b on May 16, 2012 at 12:54 pm

Debbie – bulls eye! One of the greatest mistakes that Ronald Reagan made was to select George H.W. Bush as his VP running mate in 1980. That selection has led to HW and W as Presidents and given the “family” more power than it deserves or should have. Now some in the Stupid Party, I mean the GOP, are talking about recruiting Jeb Bush as Romney’s VP running mate. This would be a disaster, as the Bush name has many negatives associated with it and Jeb is probably in league with his dad and brother in pretending to be conservatives when they are anything but. I still try to correct others when they say that W was a conservative. He was not, as neither was his dad or Nixon.

Our idiot leaders somehow believe that we can remake cultures and societies. General MacArthur remade Japan after WWII, but that was the exception to the rule that you cannot remake a non-Western country, particularly a Muslim society and country/society – unless you convert them to Christianity or Judaism, which is the exact opposite of what W and Obama have accomplished to date.

Concerned Citizen on May 16, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    You may recall that President Bush referenced Japan’s successful democracy when he was questioned about his plan to bring a democratic government to Iraq. While it is true that Japan was not a Western country, there was nothing in Japanese society or culture that was inherently contradictory to a democratic state. With Muslim countries Islam is inherently incompatible to a democratic nation based on the rule of law.

    Gloria Stewart on May 16, 2012 at 2:02 pm

Spot on and tragic! And you’ll NEVER hear the Leftist dolts who hate GWB with a passion say ANY of the things DS has pointed out. This is a very important post and if you’re not privy to what DS highlighted, you’re far behind and need to get to steppin’. If you’re gonna blame GWB there are VERY great reasons to and listening to Leftists spew a bunch of fake crap ALWAYS pisses me off and reminds me of the TRUTH (which they haven’t a clue about!)

Wish I was a regular here in 2006…at that time I think I was still trying to understand why the Left was obsessed with hating GWB…they seemed to make things up and lie (like Obama-Putin does) to make their deranged hatred for him legitimate and I didn’t get it. I was far behind then but not any longer BECAUSE I come HERE!

If you hear a Conservative today still praising GWB (and I know it is tempting to think of him better BECAUSE of the disgusting Obama-Putin Regime) you MUST always remember how he pandered to Islam (and that the so-called Conservative is a poseur!). DS is so right….and the ONLY Conservative I hear telling it like it is! That’s important to acknowledge! And amazing in 2012!!!

Remember, don’t get let behind by the frauds. The truth is out there and more people gotta know it.

Yesterday my local am show had Robert Spencer on and he is always touted as a very serious Islam expert who “tells it like it is” but in his interview with Jeff Katz, he was saying stuff about changing Moooooooslim minds and getting them on our side. Those of you who know this site know why that is a problem! And the host and some in the audience will think the stuff Slobbert is spewing is correct and that he’s more hardcore than the average Conservative. HARDLY. It’s hard to know everything but when I hear hosts believing good Conservatives are Grover Norquist, Darrell Issa and Robert Spencer I lose it!

Skunky on May 16, 2012 at 1:02 pm

Geert Wilders…Fitna.
See it.
Believe it.
Coming to(or already in)a town near you.
Courtesy of GWB and the “compassionate conservatives.”

BilboBaggins on May 16, 2012 at 1:09 pm

And of course these nitwits believe that if we throw money at them it will ‘help’ the process of democracy. Lot that it has accomplished in Egypt, Iraq, and Afghanistan. They also think that if we have economic relationships with these countries, like with China, it will liberalize them — or maybe they don’t believe it, but just say it to justify their appeasement policies.

But clearly, throwing money at them or trading with them doesn’t change things in these countries. It hasn’t during any other time in history either.

Little Al on May 16, 2012 at 1:34 pm

You know what DS (as our pal Gamal R. Schobarium says at the beginning of his message) you’re correct about George W Bush Jr. and the so-called “Arab-Spring”, back in his day as president it wasn’t called the Arab-Spring, it was called “Operation Iraqi Freedom”!

I’ll be honest with all of you here, I bought into the moronic neo-conservative kool-aid talking points of “yadda yadda where bringing democracy in the middle east yadda yadda”, and I went for this other neo-con line, “yadda yadda liberals support muslim dictators and hate the USA yadda yadda”, I had that dumbass knee-jerk conservative viewpoint while I at the time was listening to a little too much of Sean Hannity’s gung-ho, neo-con talking points, etc. And when I was listening to Michael Savage’s show (I still listen to Savage today, he’s the ONLY conservative talk show host I listen to these days, the rest are GOP shill-hacks), he at times criticized Bush Jr’s middle east policies of bringing democracy to the arab-world, and when Dr. Savage criticized Bush’s mid-east policies, I would disagree with Savage and say to myself, “Is Savage insane or what?”. Then I read his book, “Liberalism is a Mental Disorder” and guess what, Dr. Savage was right and spot on on what he said about Bush’s middle east policies.

Then a few years ago I came here and couldn’t agree with Debbie on her views of Bush’s idiotic middle east policies. Right now Iraq is an unstable state with barley anytype of leadership, christians in Iraq are being persecuted and killed, and a few months ago about 90 teenagers in Iraq where murdered because they dressed up in western clothing and had unique looking hairstyles, etc. and you call that democracy? If you call that democracy and support such evil acts, then you ought to get you’re head examined!

“A nation is defined by it’s borders, language & culture!”

Sean R. on May 16, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    I hear you Sean! I was like that too and part of the reason was I had finally found out that the Left had been lying to me for years and they were all horrible phonies. Goes to show you have to research yourself so you’re not led astray by ANYONE. I’ve learned that lesson.

    I listen to Savage too and his pointing out about Iran was a wake up call to me (in one of his books) and he was the only one I heard saying so (before I re-discovered DS!).

    But really, the BEST show on radio is “Quinn & Rose”. Jim Quinn knows his stuff and EDUCATES his audience. If I had to pick one show to listen to (and I listen to many) THAT is the one to pick. He gets it on Israel better than anyone I have heard (usually, some equivocate…he never does (that I have heard) because (as a post-ers handle says “As goes Israel….”.

    And the Podcast is free! Check it out…you’ll not be sorry!

    (I also like Brett Winterble on foreign policy but I have not been able to download this podcasts for a month now…not sure why it won’t download.)

    But the rest, Sean, are mostly like you say. I have to listen to a ton to get some parts of the puzzle. DS should have her own radio-show again…I’d drop all most all to hear her take!

    Skunky on May 16, 2012 at 2:08 pm

      Skunky,

      I agree with you about Debbie getting her own radio show. When I had Sirius Radio I listened to an excellent talk show host by the name of Mike Church. The conversations between him and Debbie were both insightful and funny. And all that she was doing was giving movie reviews. Church knows his stuff and puts on a good show. C’mon Debbie you need to get your own show. Preferably at 3pm EST right after Rush. That way I won’t have to listen to Vannity. If putzes like him, Stern, Wilkow and O’Really can have/had their own shows then you should be a shoe in.

      Ken b on May 17, 2012 at 8:32 am

Many of you, like Bush, are missing a central point. Germany and Japan bowed to our will, not because democracy was better, or a brighter light, but because we stomped the s–t out of them. Their major cities lay in ruins.

Now, in the wars in Iraq and in Afghanistan, and in Vietnam, and in Korea, we did not try to win, except their “hearts and minds.”

Had we leveled each of these countries, everyone would have been better off, particularly the people of those countries we leveled. Only then would democracy have flourished, and only maybe, just maybe, in the Arab world. In any event, they would fear us, and in the Middle East, fear is better than respect or love.

If you go to war, win. Otherwise, stay home.

Jonathan E. Grant on May 16, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    Jon E. Grant I assume the point you made goes w/out saying (by those who agree with DS’ column)! I hope at least. That’s where I am at now and NOTHING brought it more home more than this ME fiasco (along with now knowing what Islam is all about at this time).

    Again, the 60′s freaks who “turned on, tuned in and dropped out” brought us to this place. Look at the rules of engagement in Afghanistan. I agree with your point 100% but the trouble is the people in power do not and at this point we are the farthest away from such a common sense approach. It is sick and sad.

    Skunky on May 16, 2012 at 6:08 pm

    Jonathan E. Grant, That statement”If you go to war,win. Otherwise,stay home.” That is very important for all Americans to realize! You are so right! The people who see the crisis looming with other countries, are bringing information to wake Americans up to what might,or will happen! In our country we have elected officials who weigh the information of concern that may necessitate a call for war! Our Congress really, really makes me sit up straight in my chair with some of the decisions they make! I must confess, I get so excited I yell at the TV! Then I look around and am so glad I live alone! I wouldn’t want my quick responses to button pushing people from Congress out in public! The Korean conflict as some would call it, The Viet Nam Conflict as some would call it, and our most recent combat actions from The Gulf War, to Iraq, has left our American society with loss of life! Please forward to Congress your Statement about war! Please have as many of us who realize the absolute truth in your statement, sign on! Congress will get the statement! It is up to Americans who voted these people into office to ensure they understand it, and act on it properly!

    williamwalter on May 16, 2012 at 6:22 pm

    Within living memory Germany and Japan had liberal constitutions and were law-ruled societies.

    That meant dictatorships that sprouted in them was the product of peculiar historical circumstances.

    It helped that we defeated them and made clear they had no say in the kind of government they preferred. We imposed our values and democratic institutions on them.

    That is why they are civilized people today and valued democratic allies.

    The Arab Muslim World is the exact opposite. Its always been run by dictators.

    An upheaval usually brought in more venal and brutal dictators to rule their unruly societies.

    We have never thoroughly defeated them and re-educated them to accept our values nor did we tell them they would have choose government we thought appropriate for them.

    We’re dealing with savages who continue to be a threat to world peace and who continue to remain our enemies both in thought and in deed.

    Unless we’re prepared to remake the Muslim World, we probably will neither see democracy flourish there or make them want to work together with us.

    At worst, we’ll lose ground and at best we’ll have a grinding stalemate that will go on for decades. Unlike the Communists, the Muslims are not ready to throw in the towel. That means we can expect skirmishes with them all over the world.

    The only thing we’ve got going for us is our faith and our values. It was inevitable a new Cold War would emerge to replace the one that ended in the last decade of the Twentieth Century.

    NormanF on May 20, 2012 at 9:32 pm

Jonathan is right, and Gloria Stewart is missing the point. Japan was altered in a big way after WWII – in Shintoism, the emperor’s divine status was ended, the country was occupied and everybody was deprogrammed from thinking that they were a master race.

The wars on Afghanistan and Iraq would have made sense had this psyche of muslims been factored in. That way, the moment Afghanistan or Iraq wanted Shariah to be in their constitution, the occupation should have put its foot down and said, ‘No F__ing way!’ In fact, it would have involved a crackdown on all Islamic education, and also, Pakistan too would have been identified as an enemy, along w/ Iran, PA, Syria and Saudi Arabia.

So don’t compare the Muslims w/ post war Germany and Japan. Nobody has occupied their countries and permanently altered islam in ways that non-Muslims living in those countries don’t have to live in fear again.

Infidel on May 16, 2012 at 3:38 pm

No clearer voice than D.S.’s in exposing the region’s unmerciful realities while our sleep at the switch leadership work hard at pedaling appeasement, or at best wishful thinking, disguised as prudence. Stubbornly, against all evidence of its futility, our policy makers mount effort after effort to approve of and gain the approval of our planet’s most evil human infestation. We’re offered a warm soothing bath of B.S. by our highest elected officials while the tap for the cold shower of truth has only the fingerprints of Debbie Schlussel and the few others willing and able to speak what sorely in need of being spoken. May their numbers multiply by the dozens…and soon!

lee, of the lower case "l" on May 16, 2012 at 4:40 pm

“…in the Arab world. In any event, they would fear us, and in the Middle East, fear is better than respect or love.

If you go to war, win. Otherwise, stay home.”
Well said, Mr. Grant

Not Ovenready on May 16, 2012 at 4:57 pm

I am well aware that in World War II we insisted on unconditional surrender. We decimated Japan and had the luxury of rebuilding it in a manner we chose with the consent and support of nearly 100% of the American people. In five years we left Japan and left it a functioning democracy. Whatever obstacles Japanese culture theoretically put in the path of a democratic state could be overcome.

This is not true with Islam. Islam permeates every phase of an adherent’s life. The religious aspect is only one aspect and is a convenient fig leaf. I cannot imagine what would happen if Iraq were in the same position as Japan was after World War II. There is not much point in speculating on alternate history. As things stand now, Islam is an impenetrable wall when it comes to accepting democracy. Its basic doctrines keep its people barbarians. Even the concept of nationhood, the starting place, is unknown to Muslims. Their loyalties are first, parochial and second, to Islam. If George Bush was envisioning democracy for Iraq, he might as well have been looking for a unicorn. But how many American soldiers died or were injured and, at the very least, had their lives forever changed, because of his illusions?

Gloria Stewart on May 16, 2012 at 8:01 pm

Bush has always lived in the world of wishful thinking. He has to take this position because it is validation of his efforts, as the grand shaper of the middle east. He spent years lying to himself, why should anyone expect any intellectual honesty now?

A truly dispassionate and objective viewer can only observe what Bush did and conclude that his policies and those policies’ legacies have made us less safe. Foreign policy has to be pragmatic and at times coldly calculating to be successful, there is no place for ideologues and their fantasies. While we can all hope for win-win outcomes from our foreign policy, I am only really interested in preserving and protecting our own interests and those of our future generations. If that coincides with what’s good for the Arab street, fine, otherwise – f ‘em.

Please on May 16, 2012 at 8:23 pm

Debbie, sorry to rain on your parade though I do give you that GW is a knee jerk idiot. Saddam was not exactly pro-Israel, though he did provide a protective umbrella of fear and terror to minorities in Iraq including Jews and Christians.
Remember he did give 20-20k awards to Palistinian families who sent their sons as suicide bombers.
He no doubt would have decimated the corrupt but greatful Kuwaites (greatful at that time). We would have lost not only oil but a valuable base making Israel more vulnerable. In his fashion Saddam wanted to emulate Saladin as Nasser tried before him.
His scud missless were about as effective as junkyard cars propelled by a giant slingshot, however they did give us a chance to try the new patriot technology.
In retrospect this was a disaster, Saddam would never have swung over to us. There is no telling how far he would go to distabilize America’s oil supply if you remember his last ditch effort to burn his own oil fields.
Crazy is crazy. Israel not needing additional tsuris thought America would make short work of Saddam. We did, but our geniuses did not leave enough boots, or equipment on the ground to neutralize the thousands of bombs and shells left over. Ditto for not using Saddam’s former troops to maintain order ostensibly because they were tainted with Bathist ideology. Despite the fact that there no longer existed any semblance of a Bathist infrastucture. Mea Culpa, like Israel I thought we could handle it. Hindsight would be genius if it was foresight.
Using hindsight I blame Cheney et al as well for dreaming up the idea of a new smaller army that could get in and out cheaply. Ironically, we could have saved Iraq from itself if we only used Saddam’s in place infrastructure and molded it to be self sufficient. I think Israel would have assisted if it could have seen into the future. The only drawback might have been inteferance from Israel’s most unstable enemy at that time which was Syria.

Ron Wolf aka "Columbo" on May 16, 2012 at 9:49 pm

I want to discuss one aspect of the Democracy in the Middle East that is missing from this discussion.

Re: The 2006 elections in Gaza.

No matter where one stands on the question of whether or not there should have been/should be elections in Iraq or elsewhere in the Arab/Muslim Middle East, either way the “Palestinian” elections in Gaza should never have taken place–either in 2006 or in any other year. The reason is that the notion that there should be any elections in Gaza is to accept the premise that Gaza is Palestinian territory, that Israel was right to withdraw from the territory and now that the territory has been liberated (according to this thinking), the Palestinians now should have elections be held in their own territory of Gaza. Of course that premise is complete BS from start to finish. Israel should not have withdrawn from that territory, and if that’s true (and it is), then that means even if the “Palestinians” were a real people (they are not), they still should no more have had elections to determine who their own leaders are and then to have their government be established in the Israeli territory of Gaza than–as one example–Mexicans should have elections in the U.S. territory of Texas to determine who their leaders of Mexico are and to have their government be established in that U.S. State.

JeffE on May 16, 2012 at 11:19 pm

I tried to think of GWB as a conservative until the 2006 midterms, it was then that I could no longer avoid reality. Shortly after that disaster GWB says something to the effect that having a democrat majority would be good because it would help to get his “Comprehensive Immigration Reform Bill” passed! My analogy: A football team is expected to make it to the Super Bowl, or at very least the playoffs. Instead they go 1-15. Imagine the coach being interviewed the day after the team’s season ends and he says “Oh well, at least now we’ll get the first pick in the draft”. Could you imagine something like that ever happening? The headline of the post starts with the word “MORON”. That might be an understatement.

CornCoLeo on May 17, 2012 at 12:21 am

“And I noted again and again that democracy ain’t for Muslims–savages and barbarians who need an authoritarian dictator to keep them in line. It is only for civilizations, something Bush just doesn’t get.”

I worked with a Palestinian woman who said the exact same thing.

Phil M on May 17, 2012 at 7:24 am

I read your article, or even better yet your rant Debbie. I tried to read all of the comments posted, but the time needed is just hard to give. I want to inform all of you here that it is imperative for us to know that if anyone doesn’t understand what both Bush’s of the Bush dynasty are about & have done, then they should not be given your ear. For to listen to someone who thinks that the Bush’s were or are CONSERVATIVES , tells you that they are totally clueless of what has been going on for many decades. The Bush’s came from the East and are not Republicans, but Democrats parading as Repubs. When GH bush came to Texas he made his way into the Republican party, where it was still very small here & not having much growth. Our state still had a majority of old school Democrats, of which all would be made more knowledgeable to gain this understanding of how the old school southern Democrat thought. The Democrats of the North and especially the onew who came from priviledge, were in no way like the Southern Democrat. Nevertheless GH managed to gain entrance to the very small Republican party, where he eventually usurped it. This is when the party really began to observe the moderate,the one who is now understood to be a Rhino. These now own the party, due to their monetary influence, and being that the Bush’s have played such a large part in this party, They now have great influence. I would advise all to completely shun all of their influence, as they are only doing what they do for sake of the establishing the UN goals. They believe in the establishing of a one world Government via the UN, and they are not finished yet. They still have one Bush yet, to buy him an election for the Presidency. The Bush’s have a powerful alignment with the Saudi’s and will do whatever is needed for them, to have influence, while they seek to spread their Wahabbism beliefs. If you want to locate soldiers to change the Paradigm’s existing in civilizations, then you have to look no farther than a Muslim. They are now the hired guns of those who would create a new world order, where there is a false sense of Democracy, while a totalitarian killing machine will truly exist. Like I said,do not trust the Bush’s any further than you can Obama, because they both are working for the same goals. The overthrow of the earth, in order to replace all authority with en evil authoritarian dictatorship, which is so prophecied in the Bibles book of Revelations. These people are Luciferianist’s. I do not see Romney doing anything different, and since our nations members cannot possess the vision of David, we will elect another man who is as deeply involved in globalism as those before him. If only our nations members could have faith enough to see what we truly can do, if we knew our heritage, or our father, and what he would do for us if we were to begin once more to obey his instruction. Just like our American CIA has in past times appointed disctators to rule a people such as these Muslim barbarians, so has Our God appointed men to rule over we who have forsaken him, otherwise Babylon would have been rebuilt long ago. What is happening now is no different that what was spoken to our ancestors the children of Israel, where it is recorded in Deuteronomy Chapter 28. God has blessed America, where she has given Gods children refuge from her captors, but now we have turned aside from being America the great Eagle, and are killing our own from inside, and God, who is Jehovah, has finally loosened the foreign enemy to attack & destroy us, unless we turn back to worshipping God as taught us by Jesus, who established the new covenant, since the old one had been totally usurped by the enemy, who infiltrated the temple & corrupted the worship of God & created a substitute based on the traditions of men. Learn of this & help save our world from the future subjugation by evil & lawless men, who have the darkest of hearts. You must become able to see the bigger picture of what has been going down in history since the beginning of mans creation. We have an enemy who is not man, & he is clever, so clever,as to cause you to believe that he doesn’t exist. He sends another to do his bidding, while he lurks in the shadows. Usurpations, usurpation, usurpations via infiltrations is how it is done. Put a happy face on it, give it a kind name, assign it good goals, while using the facad to infiltrate in order to usurp leadership positions, buy what you cannot achieve otherwise. appointed controllable men & women. look for the one who seeks wealth & has ego, drive those out who stand against you with bodily threat of themselves, or their families. These are his teachings to obtain it, & he enslaves those to it’s accomplishments for life. They pretend to be happy with all they possess, but are most miserable in their slavery, where they are required to lie, steal, and murder, or be murdered themselves. Unless they get so sick of it that they cannot live any longer, and someone teaches them how Jesus sets the captives free, they will persih while living this way. Our God loves us, while most of us know it not.

Joe Myrick on August 31, 2012 at 12:14 pm

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