May 28, 2009, - 1:15 pm

In Observance of Shavuot, the Jewish Festival of Weeks

By Debbie Schlussel
To my friends and readers, tonight at sundown, the Jewish holiday of Shavuot ["Shah-Voo-Oat"] (also called, Shavuos–in Yiddish), or the “Festival of Weeks,” begins. It is also referred to as “Pentecost,” not to be confused with the Christian “Pentecost.” It is one of the three Jewish harvest festivals.
However, I’ve prepared my movie reviews and some other columns and blog posts about newsworthy and pop culture events, which will be posted in my absence tomorrow. (The holiday ends at nightfall, Saturday Night.) So, while I won’t be here in actuality, I’ll be here in spirit and print, and, as usual, you will see new things here (even in my absence) that you won’t read elsewhere.

shavuot.jpg

To my Jewish friends and readers, Chag Shavuot Sameach [a Happy Shavuot Holiday]. To everyone else, the holiday is basically, a celebration of G-d giving the Torah and the Ten Commandments to the Jewish people. On the holiday, men traditionally stay up all night, the first night, in Bible (Torah) study, and we eat dairy foods. Women can stay up all night, too, and some liberal Jewish women do. But since we’re not obligated and I’m not a feminist, I take (and enjoy) my non-obligations very seriously.
To learn more about the holiday, go here and here.
In the meantime, I still have plenty of other stuff to put up today. Stay tuned and keep yourselves posted. Again, you won’t notice I’m gone, as tomorrow, new, unique stuff–on issues you and I care about and inane pop culture stuff we don’t necessarily care so much about–will be up.

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21 Responses

Wishing you a Chag Shavuot Sameach!

BB on May 28, 2009 at 6:49 pm

Debbie, there are some of us Christians (albeit a small group) who hold that ALL the Feasts are Jewish (and prophetically connected to Israel) and that the Pentecost of Acts 2 was wholly Jewish. Jewish Christians in the Acts Age observed the Feasts (and did so by conviction, instruction and with the approval of G-d and the Apostles). We hold that the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31 is reserved for Israel (primarily because it clearly says so!).
Much has been robbed from Israel and her covenants with G-d (including Pentecost), but there are some of us who seek to draw lines correctly in the scriptures and preserve for Israel what G-d has reserved for Israel.
It is true that we believe that since the destruction of Jerusalem, the plans for Israel have been on hold… but ALL the promises of G-d are assured and Israel shall have ALL her covenants and promises fulfilled in a day to come.
In the Christian scriptures, Peter writes to “the dispersion,” James writes to “the twelve tribes scattered” (who meet in “synagogues”) and Paul in the Acts Age writes to “Hebrews” and includes himself (“we”).
http://bibleunderstanding.com/church.htm

bleechers on May 29, 2009 at 8:14 am

In the Christian scriptures, Peter writes to “the dispersion,” James writes to “the twelve tribes scattered” (who meet in “synagogues”) and Paul in the Acts Age writes to “Hebrews” and includes himself (“we”).
Posted by: bleechers at May 29, 2009 08:14 AM
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“Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of god is sent unto the gentiles and that they will hear it.”
- Acts I 28:28
Unable to convert the Jews, Paul turned to the gentiles. In fact, as the Jerusalem Bible translates it:
“salvation of god is sent unto the PAGANS and that they will hear it.”
This, of course, is against the Prophets of the Tanach and illustrates Paul’s intention to convert all and any he could. He did convert the pagans by promising them heaven through belief in a dead Jew on a stick – no other parts or accessories required. Very comforting pie in the sky before you die promotion.
You do not share in our Covenant. Your is a poor plagiarism. But all is good, for………
“Thus saith the LORD of hosts: In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold, out of all the languages of the nations, shall even take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying: We will go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”
- Zechariah 8:23
See you then!

Shy Guy on May 31, 2009 at 6:38 am

Zech 12:10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. 11 On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be great, like the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo…”
Hey “Shy Guy” I am glad you are expressing the “orthodox main line view.” The problem is… the one you call the dead Jew on a stick. hmmm. You know, Paul was just as aggravatged with him as you seem to be before he was knocked off his horse. Why doh’t you challenge HIM, Shy Guy?
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts%209;&version=31;

BB on June 1, 2009 at 7:00 am

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Zech 12:10
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They just keep coming back for more! Once again, knowing the original Hebrew grammar and reading verses in their actual context is of no interest to Christians playing the scriptural equivalent of pin the tail on the donkey. After all, we can’t let facts get in our way!
http://jewsforjudaism.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=314&Itemid=228
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Hey “Shy Guy” I am glad you are expressing the “orthodox main line view.”
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No. I am expressing what G-d said in His Torah and through His prophets, which you can’t seem to disprove. So you instinctively feel the need to toss more nonsense in our direction. Go right ahead.
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You know, Paul was just as aggravated with him as you seem to be before he was knocked off his horse. ==================================================
Paul was knocked off his horse? So was Madonna. That would impress you, wouldn’t it! I mean, even their names go together.
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Why don’t you challenge HIM, Shy Guy?
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I’m glad you find Paul challenging. Why am I not surprised:
“Consider, brothers, how you were called; not many of you are wise by human standards, not many influential, not many from noble families.
No, God chose those who by human standards are fools to shame the wise; he chose those who by human standards are weak to shame the strong,
those who by human standards are common and contemptible — indeed those who count for nothing — to reduce to nothing all those that do count for something”
- I Corinthians 1:26-28 (Jerusalem Bible)
That used to work with ignoramuses who couldn’t read, didn’t have original texts in front of them and couldn’t google on the Internet to check out the veracity of various snake oils being sold to them.
The party’s over.

Shy Guy on June 2, 2009 at 1:15 am

OK Shy Guy–(who definitely ain’t shy)–first
Your link does nothing to disprove the main point shown here–Israel will mourn bitterly for the one whom they have pierced–you can’t cut that out of the word of God. BTW–that hasn’t happened yet either. It reminds me how Joseph was rejected, and Moses too–before the people learned of G-d’s choice.
Mock as you will–Saul of the Sanhedrin Jewish ruling council took to persecuting all Jews who believed in Jesus– to then become the greatest evangelist in the history of the church. So–Since you consider Jesus the dead Jew on a stick–let’s watch and see how he answers your mocking. I just want you to realize whom you real beef is with…Jesus said to Saul, “I am Jesus who you are persecuting.” He is able to defend himself–get ready, my friend–I’M PRAYING FOR YOU!!

BB on June 2, 2009 at 11:46 am

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Posted by: BB at June 2, 2009 11:46 AM
Your link does nothing to disprove the main point shown here–Israel will mourn bitterly for the one whom they have pierced–you can’t cut that out of the word of God.
==================================================
So? Had you read the article I linked to, you should have understood that the one pierced is us, the Jews. It’s in plain English, no knowledge of biblical Hebrew required.
And what are you excited about? That you found the word “pierced” somewhere in the Tanach? Like I said, you folks love to play scriptural pin the tail (or tale) on the donkey.
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BTW–that hasn’t happened yet either.
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How is that relevant? Of course the Tanach’s prophecies of the “End of Days” haven’t come to pass yet. Is that news to you? Try concentrating on the subjects you’ve already brought up.
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It reminds me how Joseph was rejected, and Moses too–before the people learned of G-d’s choice.
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How are you comparing 2 qualified figures in Jewish history to your dead drop-out? Does Shabtai Zvi qualify for the same reason? How about the late Lubavitcher Rebbe, according to the crackpot sect within Chabad Hassidus?
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Mock as you will–Saul of the Sanhedrin Jewish ruling council took to persecuting all Jews who believed in Jesus– to then become the greatest evangelist in the history of the church.
==================================================
He’s all yours. You guys seem to love our rejects. But as I mentioned above, Paul looked for rejects. It’s a common tactic for cults today. What a coincidence!
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So–Since you consider Jesus the dead Jew on a stick–let’s watch and see how he answers your mocking.
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No knock at the door. Not even an email in my inbox. Maybe an SMS came in………
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I just want you to realize whom you real beef is with…Jesus said to Saul, “I am Jesus who you are persecuting.” He is able to defend himself–get ready, my friend–I’M PRAYING FOR YOU!!
==================================================
That’s all you’ve got? Don’t you understand the NT and your entire theoligical track don’t get off the ground when (any)one learns exactly what is written in the Torah, Prophets and Scriptures?
1 Not unto us, O LORD, not unto us, but unto Thy name give glory, for Thy mercy, and for Thy truth’s sake.
2 Wherefore should the nations say: ‘Where is now their God?’
3 But our God is in the heavens; whatsoever pleased Him He hath done.
4 Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men’s hands.
5 They have mouths, but they speak not; eyes have they, but they see not;
6 They have ears, but they hear not; noses have they, but they smell not;
7 They have hands, but they handle not; feet have they, but they walk not; neither speak they with their throat.
8 They that make them shall be like unto them; yea, every one that trusteth in them.
- King David, Psalm 115
Recommended reading for you:
Why the Jews Rejected Jesus: The Turning Point in Western History, by David Klinghoffer
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0385510225/ref=s9_simz_gw_s0_p14_t2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1285YT313BY4N7HBR0T8&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846
Don’t worry. Unlike me, Klinghoffer is relatively shy.

Shy Guy on June 2, 2009 at 12:46 pm

Hey Shy Guy–thanks for the thoughtful response. One thing (that I know you will think is a cop out, but it’s still true) a person cannot deny what reality that has come upon him–been shown to him.
Moses did not know JHWH before the burning bush–but he could not deny him afterward–the same is true for those of us who have found the Jewish Jesus of Nazareth to be the Messiah of God crucified for our sins, buried, raised on the thrid day to eternal life–I didn’t go looking to become a believer, but I am one.
Anyway, I just want to say, that I appreciate the note back–Debbie can get you my email if you want it–happy to dialog if you care to. In the end, one of us is and will be proven right, the other wrong on Jesus.

BB on June 3, 2009 at 8:41 am

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Posted by: BB at June 3, 2009 08:41 AM
One thing (that I know you will think is a cop out, but it’s still true) a person cannot deny what reality that has come upon him–been shown to him.
Moses did not know JHWH before the burning bush–but he could not deny him afterward
==================================================
This is simply not true, according to what numerous Medrashic texts say. Moses knew his people, its history, the covenant between G-d and the Patriarchs, etc.
But for argument’s sake here, let’s assume the bible story portrayal of Moses as depicted in Cecille B. Demille’s movie classic…..
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the same is true for those of us who have found the Jewish Jesus of Nazareth to be the Messiah of God crucified for our sins, buried, raised on the thrid day to eternal life–I didn’t go looking to become a believer, but I am one.
==================================================
Moses saw what he saw (and knew what he already knew, when discarding the Charlton Heston image of Moses you have stuck in your mind).
You haven’t seen anything. Not Jesus’ crucifixion, burial, resurection, yada, yada. And you’re dependent on a handful of people and assumptions that the heavily-edited and compiled writings of your cult’s promoters, decades plus after the stories supposedly took place, are true to begin with.
In any case, what you really seem to be saying to me is what so many a Christian express quite often; that you have Jesus in your heart and his knowledge in your being.
Do I really have to give you a guided tour of the world to show you the many worshippers of Hare Krishna, Hinduism, Scientology or Islam who will proclaim with no less ferver than you that their religion, whether they were born into or converted into it, has transformed their lives and given them a true elation and inner peace? Do you really think that’s a patent of Jesus worshippers only?
In essence, there is no relationship between spiritual transformation which occurs in the heart of the faithful believer and the spiritual truth which he espouses. I’ve got it, too. You, me and millions of people around the planet, all of us associated with completely conflicting theological claims, have got it.
The Bible contains a record of many individuals and nations who possessed fervent devotion to their idolatry. Nonetheless, their spiritual adultery is condemned as an utter abomination, regardless of the spirituality and transformation they derived. Why would G-d permit religions, whose fundamental teachings have no basis in truth, to produce life-transforming experiences and miraculous occurrences in the lives of their devout followers?
The answer can be found in Deuteronomy 13, with that very same, real Moses speaking to the people of Israel just prior to the entry into the land of Israel:
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9977
(Note: I am not affiliated with Chabad in any manner. Their online library is just a usefull reference to me)
Note the 2nd half of verse 4 there:
“for the Lord, your G-d, is testing you, to know whether you really love the Lord, your G-d, with all your heart and with all your soul.”
If we lived in a world where only one religion could produce spirituality and miraculous life-altering experiences, that precious balance of free will we have been granted could not exist. This is your choice in a world where free will hangs in its perfect balance. Mose here warns the Children of Israel: Will you worship the G-d of Israel alone or turn to gods whom the nation of Israel has not known?
Similarly, Jeremiah states in 28:8-9:
“. . . for thus says the Lord of hosts, the G-d of Israel, “Do not let your prophets and your diviners who are in your midst deceive you, nor listen to your dreams which you cause to be dreamed; for they prophesy falsely to you in My name. I have not sent them, says the Lord.”
Jeremiah’s message is clear. If a prophet’s message has so permeated your being to the point that you are having dreams of these false prophets and their false teachings, you alone are the one who is responsible for these improper apparitions. G-d has not sent them.
G-d permits man to become enraptured with false religions for the same reason He permits a married man to be attracted to women other than his wife. Don’t look to spirituality and miraculous life-changing events as your guide to truth in faith. Look to the Bible alone for this eternal instruction.
If you read OUR bible carefully, without twisting the meaning of words, without taking verses out of their context and without the pre-prejudices of your present beliefs and assumptions, you will begin to see that your present beliefs cannot possibly have a foothold in G-d’s Torah.
And remember: the truth will set you free!
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In the end, one of us is and will be proven right, the other wrong on Jesus.
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I have already been through most of the NT, using fundamental Christian commentaries.
When you have read through Tanach, using an accurate translation from the original Hebrew and with classic Jewish commentaries, come back and make the same claim. And, seriously, get that Klinghoffer book to have a deeper understanding of where we’re coming from, even should you remain a committed Christian to your dying day.

Shy Guy on June 3, 2009 at 11:05 am

Question for the Shy Guy. In Gen 18
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8213
We read of THE L–D coming to meet Abraham at his tent. He was with 2 men,angels. Abraham met him and fell at his feet. He talked with him about the birth of Isaac next year and also about destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, imminently.
We see read of these “theophanies” (appearances of G-d)throughout the OT–and through the descriptions of glory we see that it is in the form of a man–(many examples could be given here). Who is this man? He speaks and acts as G-d. Is this an imposter? What is going on here?

BB on June 4, 2009 at 12:09 pm

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Posted by: BB at June 4, 2009 12:09 PM
Question for the Shy Guy. In Gen 18
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8213
We read of THE L–D coming to meet Abraham at his tent. He was with 2 men,angels.
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No. G-d “presence” was already “there” (verse 1). At some point, 3 angels came – not 2 (verse 2).
If you’ll click on the checkbox “Show Rashi’s Commentary” on the selection bar on the link above, Rashi’s commentary in English will be displayed:
http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8213/showrashi/true
I suggest you read the explanation in verse 2 on the words “and behold, three men”, as a further introduction to the verses to follow.
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Abraham met him and fell at his feet.
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No. He fell at THEIR feet. The plural is used and you can read it in plain English at the link you supplied above.
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He talked with him about the birth of Isaac next year and also about destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, imminently.
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Remember that Rashi back on verse 2?
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We see read of these “theophanies” (appearances of G-d)throughout the OT–and through the descriptions of glory we see that it is in the form of a man–(many examples could be given here). Who is this man? He speaks and acts as G-d. Is this an imposter? What is going on here?
==================================================
There is no form of a man here other than the angels. They are not G-d. They are G-d’s messengers.
Fun fact: the word Mal’ach in Hebrew means both an angel and a messenger. Hence the foundational meaning of the word “evangelical”, in case you didn’t know.
Back to your desparate need for “theophanies”, we’ve knocked one down. Do you want to toss a few more my way? Ready but to save us some time and typing, read this first:
http://outreachjudaism.org/genesis1-26.html

Shy Guy on June 4, 2009 at 1:00 pm

1. Now the L-RD appeared to him in the plains of Mamre and he was sitting at the entrance of the tent when the day was hot…
So what you just did was go through all that to contradict this verse. Brilliant.

BB on June 5, 2009 at 9:46 am

I thought I explained myself clearly when I said:
“No. G-d “presence” was already “there” (verse 1).”
After that, we have the appearance of the 3 angels in verse 2.
Please show me the contradiction you think exists here.

Shy Guy on June 6, 2009 at 4:15 pm

OK. I think I see what’s bothering you. You view verses 1 and 2 as one event, where Judaism states they are two: the visit of G-d’s divine presence upon Abraham and the appearance of the angels.
As has been pointed out already, angels are G-d’s messengers. They are not G-d Himself. Does the NT state that the trinity consists of 3 angels or that they are represented by 3 angels?
Like I said, you continue to play scriptural pin the tail (tale) on the donkey. If you would remove your blindfold, you might actually understand what your problem is.

Shy Guy on June 6, 2009 at 4:40 pm

You do err not, knowing the scriptures or the power of G-d. Your presuppositions are the real blinder. Read:
Gen 18:33. And the Lord departed when He finished speaking to Abraham, and Abraham returned to his place.
Try as you might, the dead Jew on a stick is the one with whom you have your real problem. We could look at several other passages which clearly demonstrate the LO-D appearing as a man–with varying degrees of glory being manifested–but seeing what you do here, it is a waste of time. Remember what happened to Saul of Tarsus–and be ready.
Ex 33:11 The LO-D would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend. 18 Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.”
19 And the LO-D said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LO-D, in your presence.”you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”
21 Then the LORD said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”

BB on June 8, 2009 at 7:20 pm

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Posted by: BB at June 8, 2009 07:20 PM
You do err not, knowing the scriptures or the power of G-d. Your presuppositions are the real blinder. Read:
Gen 18:33. And the Lord departed when He finished speaking to Abraham, and Abraham returned to his place.
Try as you might, the dead Jew on a stick is the one with whom you have your real problem.
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Like it or not, there’s no dead Jew mentioned in that verse. Nor a stick. Nor a father, nor a son, nor a holy ghost. Nor the name Jesus or Yeshua or Yeshu – or Kukamonga for that matter – not in this verse nor in any verse throughout the entire Tanach.
So, yes, I have a problem superimposing such a mediocre character in a book 1000s of pages long, where there are no such mentions – not even one. You should, too.
But I’ll continuing playing pin the tail (tale) on the donkey with you. Once again, we need to remove your blindfold. This time, however, I’ll just paste a link to a an article written by Christians on the subject:
http://reslight.net/gen18-1.html
Obviously I don’t agree with much of what’s said there but their conclusion, at least regarding this chapter 18 of Genesis, is honest and rational. I think we’ve exhausted the subject of Genesis 18. Let’s move on to your claims of Exodus 33.
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We could look at several other passages which clearly demonstrate the LO-D appearing as a man–with varying degrees of glory being manifested–but seeing what you do here, it is a waste of time. Remember what happened to Saul of Tarsus–and be ready.
Ex 33:11 The LO-D would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend. 18 Then Moses said, “Now show me your glory.”
19 And the LO-D said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LO-D, in your presence.”you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”
21 Then the LORD said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”
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***cough***
“No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”
- John 1:18 (KJV)
***cough***
But let’s play a little bit more anyway:
Verse 11: Backup to verse 9. “Face to face” is obviously metaphorical. Or are clouds people, too?
Verse 19: Make up your mind. If “face to face” is literal, then how can it say “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live”? Oopsee again, BB. Context, baby, context!
Verse 21: So now G-d has a Jolly Green Giant kingsize hand which covers up people in rock clefts. Once again, the Torah always refers to G-d’s spiritual attributes in a metaphorical manner, comprehendable in language to the average human being. I’ll end off with a copy and paste from fellow Jew Yamit, who posted this elsewhere:
God is not a man that he should be deceitful nor a son of man that he should relent. (Numbers 23:19)
This verse states four things. God is not a man, God is not a son of man, God is not deceitful, and God does not relent. For our purposes we need to focus on the first two.
The words translated to son of man are ben adam. They are also adequately rendered mortal man or human being in many translations. While this verse states that God is not a son of man, Jesus uses this title for himself repeatedly in the gospels. Therefore, Jesus is not God according to the Torah.
I will not act on My wrath, will not turn to destroy Ephraim. For I am God, not man, The Holy One in your midst. (Hosea 11:9)
A similar verse; the same applies here as above. This states that God is not a man, while from the gospels we know that Jesus was a man. Therefore, according to Hosea Jesus is not God.
Moreover, the Glory of Israel does not deceive or change His mind, for He is not human that He should change His mind. (1 Samuel 15:29)
Once again we see that God is not a human. However, as noted above, the favorite title for Jesus in the gospels is one that is equivalent to Ôø?human being.Ôø? According to Samuel, Jesus is not God.
He is not a man, like me, that I can answer him, that we can go to law together. No arbiter is between us, to lay his hand on us both. (Job 9:32-33)
Once again, we see the declaration that God is not a man (while Jesus was). This verse is interesting because it also states that there is no mediator between God and man, contrary to Christian claims that Jesus is a mediator. According to Job, Jesus is neither God nor mediator.
Will you still say, Ôø?I am a godÔø? before your slayers, when you are proved a man, not a god, at the hands of those who strike you down? (Ezekiel 28:9)
This is an interesting verse. It demonstrates that mortality is one sure sign that someone is not a deity. JesusÔø? mortality was quite clear – he was struck down. While Christians would claim that he rose again, this verse would debate that God could be struck down at all. It seems that according to Ezekiel, Jesus canÔø?t be God.
For your own sake, therefore, be most careful Ôø? since you saw no shape when the Lord your God spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. (Hosea 4:15)
This was a warning for Israel. In essence, it states never to worship anything that has an image, because they saw on image on Mt. Sinai. However, Jesus had an image. In addition, the Jews did not see God on Mt. Sinai. Jesus seems to be implicated in this warning by Hosea.
If there appears among you a prophet or a dream-diviner and he gives you a sign or a portent, saying, Ôø?Let us follow and worship another god Ôø? Ôø? whom you have not experienced Ôø? even if the sign or portent that he named to you comes true, do not heed the words of that prophet or dream diviner. (Deut. 13:2)
This is an important verse for two reasons. For one, it demonstrates that Jesus is not God because the Israelites did not experience Jesus in the desert with Moses. It also demonstrates that false prophets can do miracles, and thus the miracles of Jesus (including his resurrection) do not prove a thing. The Torah seems to warn about Jesus, or people like him.
For I am the Lord, I change not. Therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. (Malachi 3:6)
Jesus, as a human being, was in a constant state of change. Only something incorporeal can avoid change. JesusÔø? human nature excludes the possibility of Jesus being an unchanging God. And God never changes, according to Malachi. Jesus must not be the God Malachi is speaking of.
There is so much Scriptural evidence against Jesus being God, that entire websites are dedicated to this fact alone. Therefore, I wonÔø?t present a detailed commentary on New Testament texts and how they relate to Jesus divinity or the lack thereof. I will only present a few that are absolute and exclusive in nature.
Then Jesus was led up by the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. (Matthew 4:1)
God cannot be tempted, but Jesus was.
But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the son, but only the father. (Mark 3:32)
Jesus was not all-knowing.
The son can do nothing of himself, but what he sees the Father do. (John 5:19)
Now he could do no mighty work there, except that he laid his hands on a few sick people an healed them. (Mark 6:5)
Jesus was not all-powerful.
Why do you call me good? No one is good but one, that is, God. (Matthew 19:17)
Jesus was not all-good.

Shy Guy on June 9, 2009 at 2:08 am

BB, since you’re constantly hurling endless claims my way, maybe I’ll just do the same.
Here’s an entire online book for you to refute, chapter by chapter, paragraph by paragraph:
Their Hollow Inheritance: A Comprehensive Refutation of the New Testament and Its Missionaries
http://www.drazin.com/messiah.phtml
I can play the same game.

Shy Guy on June 9, 2009 at 2:26 am

Alright Mr. Shy Guy,
We could go tit for tat forever, but I do not have the time to do that. Let’s be clear here–
I believe in ONE G-d—the LO-D. There are abundant passages, as you have pointed out, that the LO-D is not a man–yet there are many that indicate that he IS. Your attempts to disown the plain truth of those verses is your own undoing–and plenty more can be given. When you put them all together–you get this:
One God seen in 3 different ways–the unsee-able, unapproachable, all powerful G-d,
G-d in the form of a man who speaks and communes with his people, and
G-d in the form of a spirit which cannot be contained in all of heaven and earth–who is omnipresent.
Right in Genesis we reread of G-d’s amazing power–we read of his Spirit hovering over the deep and creating all things. He says “Let US create man in our image.”
We read of the covenant with David and how he will have a Son who will rule on his throne in Jerusalem and his kingdom will never end. (verses furnished upon request). His plan since the beginning was to dwell with his people and to be their G-d. And in the person of his Son, through whom he created all things–through whom he provided atonement for sins–this will come to pass.
However, just as the people rejected Joseph, rejected Moses, rejected the prophets–though they brought the word of G-d–to be eventually vindicated–that is the way this pattern works.
Please save your insults–I love the Jewish people and always will. I married one, by the way.
As I have said to you, in the end, we both cannot be right–so keep your eyes open. Recall that G-d revealed who Jospeph was during a 7 year period of severe famine/testing where his brothers bowed at his feet–though they thought they had gotten rid of him for good. Likewise, Jesus the Messiah will do the same–when Israel as a nation acknowledges its error and calls upon him.

BB on June 13, 2009 at 11:55 am

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Posted by: BB at June 13, 2009 11:55 AM
I believe in ONE G-d—the LO-D.
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Perhaps, but you don’t believe in the oneness of G-d as known to the Jewish nation, from the lifetime of the Patriarchs, over the span of some 3800 years.
http://www.aish.com/spirituality/philosophy/Gods_Unity_Maimonides_Second_Principle.asp
http://www.aish.com/spirituality/philosophy/Maimonides_Third_Principle_Gods_Incorporeality.asp
You can believe in any newfangled defintion of the Creator of the World you want but it’s not what Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Aaron, David, Solomon, all of the prophets and every Jewish family knew before the fabrication called Christianity.
In fact, it took the Church some 350 years to forcefeed the doctrine of the trinity to the masses of pagans turned “Christians”:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity#Origin_of_the_formula
Just read. It’s pathetic. This is what you’ve grown accustomed to over 2000 years.
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Your attempts to disown the plain truth of those verses is your own undoing–and plenty more can be given.
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You need to give more because I have shown you the blatant contradictions in every one of your “poofs”. Judaism has an explanation for them. Always had. You have to live with your contradictions.
Oh! Here you go…….
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Right in Genesis we reread of G-d’s amazing power–we read of his Spirit hovering over the deep and creating all things. He says “Let US create man in our image.”
==================================================
You’re so behind the times. Even your own Christian coreligionists have stopped pretending that this verse proves the trinity:
http://www.outreachjudaism.org/genesis1-26.html
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We read of the covenant with David and how he will have a Son who will rule on his throne in Jerusalem and his kingdom will never end. (verses furnished upon request). His plan since the beginning was to dwell with his people and to be their G-d. And in the person of his Son, through whom he created all things–through whom he provided atonement for sins–this will come to pass.
==================================================
Are you perhaps referring to Jeremiah 33:17? Do you want to see the mistakes of those that teach you again? You should, because remember: the truth will set you free!
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However, just as the people rejected Joseph, rejected Moses, rejected the prophets–though they brought the word of G-d–to be eventually vindicated–that is the way this pattern works.
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The pattern that works is that G-d will never reject his people even though they have severely disobeyed Him throughout history. Your false claim is no more valid than the same claims made by the followers of Mohamed, Shabtai Zvi or L. Ron Hubbard, for that matter.
Since there is no mention of your favorite dead Jew on a stick not even once anywhere throughout the history of the giving of the Torah, nor through every last prophecy that followed, and since no Jew throughout the 1000s of years prior to the advent of Christianity would have associated any of your major theological beliefs with Judaism, there was no reason for Jews – any Jews – to take up the false beliefs espoused by the heretics whose falacies were simply nonsense, as far as any average Jew at the time was concerned.
And so, as I mentioned, Paul states very clearly that to win a following, he had to lure the rejects of society. And here you are!
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Please save your insults–I love the Jewish people and always will.
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That’s very nice. We just don’t appreciate the strings attached to your fraternity clause.
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I married one, by the way.
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Traguc. May Hashem allow the Neshama of this lost Jewish women and any of her Jewish descendants to permanently find their way back to their rightful place with their Jewish bretheren, G-dspeed.
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Recall that G-d revealed who Jospeph was during a 7 year period of severe famine/testing where his brothers bowed at his feet–though they thought they had gotten rid of him for good.
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Joseph is dead and will arise at the end of days.
Jesus is dead and will not.
There is no connection between our Joseph and your Jesus. Joseph’s story was a brotherly spat. We have lots of lessons learned from their mistakes. These lessons were understood by all the generations of the nation of Israel prior to the advent of your false and failed “messiah”. You are not our brothers. Not even a bastard one, though Jesus was.

Shy Guy on June 15, 2009 at 11:16 am

Shy Guy, What I wrote stands.
you are brilliant–and you got the last word!

BB on June 16, 2009 at 10:37 am

Shy Guy, What I wrote stands.
Posted by: BB at June 16, 2009 10:37 AM
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Great rebuttal. This is indeed the standards of your “truths”.
Thanks for confirming in writing.

Shy Guy on June 16, 2009 at 3:03 pm

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