October 7, 2013, - 5:11 pm

Ovadia Yosef Z”L: Important Israeli Leader Dies; Opposed Camp David, But Backed Oslo Disaster

By Debbie Schlussel

Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, formerly Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi, died today at the age of 93. For those who do not know, Sephardic Jews are those Jews who primarily come from Asia, Africa, the Arab world, and Spain (“Spharad” means Spain in Hebrew). Jews from the rest of Europe (other than Spain) are generally Ashkenazic Jews, as I am (“Ashkenaz” is Germany). Sephardic and Ashkenazic Jews have different customs and religious traditions and observances. The majority of Jews in Israel are Sephardic, and even those who were not religious and/or Sephardic respected Rabbi Yosef.

ovadiayosefnetanyahu

Rabbi Ovadia Yosef w/ Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu

Yosef is generally considered a great and righteous man. He led the powerful Shas religious party in Israel. When Menachem Begin was about to enter into the Camp David Peace Accords with Egypt and give up the Sinai, Rabbi Yosef threatened to withdraw his support from the Likud/Herut government and Begin. But when the far more harmful and deadly Oslo Accords (negotiated in part by Caroline Glick) were on the horizon, Rabbi Yosef endorsed them, and that was his biggest mistake.






Some will consider me sacrilegious and disrespectful for saying so, but the Rabbi’s “religious ruling” that it was okay to give up Jewish land for false promises of peace was purely political and a perversion of Jewish law, which he claimed to be interpreting in supporting Oslo and other similar overtures that followed. I remember how disappointed and upset my father was when Rabbi Yosef made this “religious dictate.” After that, however, the Rabbi apparently saw the errors of his ways and moved back to the right.

When Ariel Sharon was pushing his plan for unilateral withdrawal from Gaza in 2005, Rabbi Yosef said, “God will strike him with one blow and he will die; he will sleep and not awake.” (Mr. Sharon suffered a devastating stroke in early 2006 and remains in a coma.) In 2009 Rabbi Yosef cursed the former president of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, saying he hoped he got sick. In 2010 he described President Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian Authority as “evil” and called on God to strike “these Ishmaelites and Palestinians with a plague, these evil haters of Israel.”

Rabbi Yosef was born in Baghdad, Iraq in 1920 and became a rabbi at age 20. He lived in Egypt for several years and was elected Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi from 1973 to 1983, but his power and influence remained strong until his death. Most major candidates for Prime Minister of Israel sought his support.

Today, reports say that as many as ten percent of Israelis poured into the streets in mourning of Rabbi Yosef. He was that influential.

Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, Zichrono LiVrachah [Blessed Be His Memory].

Related Posts with Thumbnails
Print Friendly



Tags: , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

57 Responses

May he rest in peace.

worry01 on October 7, 2013 at 5:19 pm

“Rabbi Yosef said, “God will strike him with one blow and he will die; he will sleep and not awake.” (Mr. Sharon suffered a devastating stroke in early 2006 and remains in a coma.) ”

Great tidbit of history. Thanks for this story, Debbie.

DS_ROCKS! on October 7, 2013 at 5:31 pm

Thanks for this article DS, and to be honest with you, I never heard of this guy, Rabbi Yosef, in any event, thanks for the synopsis historical facts of Mr. Yosef DS, really appreciate it, and may he RIP!

“A nation is defined by its borders, language & culture!”

Sean R. on October 7, 2013 at 5:34 pm

    “This guy” was/is one of the most — probably the most — influential Jewish authority in the last 300 years. Calling him “this guy” in the streets of Jerusalem, even in non-religious neighborhoods, could have the same effect as calling someone a n—er in Compton…

    Johnny on October 7, 2013 at 8:47 pm

      Johnny, we are not in Israel. Stop picking fights.

      skzion on October 8, 2013 at 12:32 am

        skzion: “…we are not in Israel.”

        Who do you think would be the American equivalent (to give those of us ignorant of him) as a reference point? Reagan> JFK? Elvis?

        BTW, I replied to that other thread.

        DS_ROCKS! on October 8, 2013 at 2:43 am

          DSR, there really isn’t an equivalent in the US. Some rabbis decided that one shouldn’t tell the full truth about … rabbis. This has served to protect real stinkers–e.g., Yosef. It has made the biggies impervious to popular control, and men being men, that has led to extremely serious misconduct.

          skzion on October 8, 2013 at 6:23 pm

        No one is picking fights. Just explaining that talking like this is deeply offensive to a lot of people.

        Johnny on October 8, 2013 at 10:01 am

        And I don’t need to be in America to know I have to show, at least, a bit of respect when talking about the founding fathers, WWII vets or national American symbols cherished by its people. It’s just common sense.

        Johnny on October 8, 2013 at 10:05 am

          Johnny, the American Founding Fathers are worthy of respect. The mere fact that Shades gained a position of power does not mean that he is worthy of respect–and I do not respect him. I have explained why.

          Anyway, the FFs are routinely denigrated. I do not expect morons to know any better or knaves to appreciate them.

          skzion on October 8, 2013 at 6:27 pm

      Thank you, Johnny. I was going to say the same thing. Also, Debbie, in her story refers to him simply as “Yosef” and that is not right. He wasn’t some obscure pulpit rabbi, he was the Gadol ha Dor for Sephardim and many others. It should be noted that Sephardi Jews also include a good many Italian Jews although they are mixed including some Ashkenazim in the North and B’nei Roma who have been there since Second Temple days. It also includes ANY Jews from Asia and Africa although they are not descended from Spanish Jewry because they follow the rites and teachings of the Sephardim.

      Bat Devorah (ha neviiah) on October 8, 2013 at 3:54 am

Thanks for this info Debbie.

Mario on October 7, 2013 at 5:38 pm

Get ready for the next State Funeral in Israel…..the “father” of Israel’s Nuclear
Reactor. Not a minute to soon.

Nomis101 on October 7, 2013 at 6:11 pm

Great Pity Maran Joseph Ovadia didn’t “Bless” George Soros with a similar “blessing” he did Ariel Sharon. The GREAT SPONSOR of Anti Israel trash group, JStreet.

nomis101 on October 7, 2013 at 6:16 pm

I posted strong responses to a black Arab on the JP Ovadia Yosef thread.

Its pretty hilarious to see Arab racists accuse Jews of racism and who knew the bootheel of Arab racism and oppression over the centuries better than the Mizrahi Jews Yosef embodied?

He had his failings to be sure but he was a “hacham” – a wise man – in Hebrew and he will be deeply missed! There are few people like him in our world in upbringing, learning and stature.

May his memory be for an eternal blessing!

NormanF on October 7, 2013 at 8:09 pm

The honorable Rabbi Yosef erred profoundly in supporting the Oslo obscenity. One can only wonder how a man of his stature went off the rails on an issue not requiring a crystal ball to see where that garden path would lead. Ah, but to whom has perfection ever been planted in?

“…After that, however, the Rabbi apparently saw the errors of his ways and moved back to the right.” Such a reversal isn’t to be taken for granted in the estimation of a man. How many prominent officials have the depth which allows them to spit in the face of human nature, concerned over all else with setting truth back upon its throne?

“Experience: The wisdom that enables us to recognize as an undesirable old acquaintance the folly that we have already embraced.”–Ambrose Bierce

“Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, Zichrono LiVrachah [Blessed Be His Memory].” Amen to that.

lee of the lower case "l" on October 7, 2013 at 8:41 pm

Re:

“Some will consider me sacrilegious and disrespectful for saying so, but the Rabbi’s [Ovadia Yosef] ‘religious ruling’ that it was okay to give up Jewish land for false promises of peace was purely political and a perversion of Jewish law, which he claimed to be interpreting in supporting Oslo and other similar overtures that followed.”

Anyone who says that you’re being sacrilegious and disrespectful is an idiot. There is nothing either sacrilegious or disrespectful about telling the truth. This is why you’re the best–you are not afraid to tell the truth whether one likes it being told or not. In any event, Rabbi Yosef fortunately saw the error of his ways and returned to his calling a spade a spade–including his being correct about Sharon. Accordingly:

“Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, Zichrono LiVrachah [Blessed Be His Memory].”

Amen!

JeffE on October 7, 2013 at 10:59 pm

    The greatest rabbi in the world is still a man and still susceptible to the whims of a man and is fallible as we all are. Sometimes the greater the man, the greater the error.

    Bat Devorah (ha neviiah) on October 8, 2013 at 3:57 am

Ovadia “Shades” Yosef was at the very center of the corruption of Orthodoxy in Israel. Whenever his opinions touched on anything outside Halachic minutia (i.e., whenever he considered the most important political and social issues of the day), he unfailingly supported whatever political players would grow his power.

For example, I recall that he justified giving parts of the Land to Muslims because it “saved lives,” by which he meant Jewish lives. But of course, the one thing that endangers Jewish life is kicking Jews off their land and bringing in the Bnei Amalek (Muslims). He also asserted that the goyim shouldn’t be tempted toward violence, when in fact this is generally thought to be a principle no longer relevant–and certainly not relevant to Jews living in Eretz Israel. Anyway, weakness only tempts Muslims to further violence.

Indeed, anyone who has even a passing familiarity with Rambam’s Mishneh Torah (Laws of Kings) knows that Arabs in Eretz Israel have created a situation of milchemet mitzvah, requiring their annihilation from all of Eretz Israel. Now if one wants to argue that simple expulsion would be satisfactory under the circumstances (given the attitudes of goyim elsewhere and those of libtards in Israel), fine. But land for piss? Lol! Now, if I know all this, surely “Shades” Yosef knows this. But he refused to act on it. It’s disgusting.

Some Jews will argue that we’re not supposed to speak ill of rabbis, and certainly not of a Posek haDor. I say baloney. We see the consequences of keeping quiet every day–and Jewish life is more important than following a rule that may have made sense in the shtetl but not in the modern world.

skzion on October 8, 2013 at 12:08 am

    Oh Right! We should listen to you, you SODOMITE! Pot calling the kettle black much? You’re sin is far worse than Rav Ovadia’s. He can find repentance and actually so can you if you start now but if you die unrepentant, there is no help.

    Bat Devorah (ha neviiah) on October 8, 2013 at 3:59 am

      Batshit Devorah is back spreading chesid. Some will remember the crone as “Italkit.” In her previous incarnation, “mk750,” the last thing she did here was attack Debbie regarding “Lady” Gaga (mk750 defended the “Lady” because mk750 considers herself Italian) before storming off. She returned under the nick “Italkit” just to make clear to anyone watching that she was right to go all Rumpelstiltskin on Debbie before regarding the Italian “Lady.” Now she goes by Batshit, ur, Bat Devorah, likening herself to the Prophetess Devorah (Deborah) and choosing to compete via her new nick with our own blogress (Debbie), as if that were possible. I’m providing a couple of links that expand on my summary, but I expect most of you do not need them (please replace “[dot]” with “.” to activate the links).

      www[dot]debbieschlussel[dot]com/62156/would-you-date-martha-stewart-putting-herself-into-online-matchmaking-has-to-be-publicity-stunt/

      www[dot]debbieschlussel[dot]com/65124/video-w-hasan-ft-hood-trial-start-victims-say-obama-gave-them-substandard-med-care-bc-he-wont-call-it-terrorism/

      Note that only a Catholic school graduate (like Italkit) would use “Sodomite” as a synonym for “homosexual.” Equating the two has nothing to do with the Jewish Halachic tradition; it was done by Christians. In the Jewish tradition, the Jews of Sodom were destroyed because they were so murderously vicious to fellow Jews (reminds me of someone on the blog), in direct violation of “the fundamental principle of Torah” (Hillel/Akiva).

      Finally, I am reminded of Balaam who attempted to curse the Israelites but whose words came out as praises. For if you notice, Italkit’s own words basically support my take on Yosef. She just doesn’t like it that I was the one who said it.

      skzion on October 8, 2013 at 12:53 pm

      “You’re [sic] sin is far worse than Rav Ovadia’s.”

      -Batshit Italkit

      Uh, not quite. “Shades” is personally responsible for the deaths of thousands of Jews, the continued presence of the Bnei Amalek in Eretz Israel, the abandonment by Jews of the Temple Mount, and on and on.

      skzion on October 8, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    ‘“Shades”’

    :heh:

    DS_ROCKS! on October 8, 2013 at 4:56 pm

(Obviously, I do not agree that Yosef “moved back to the right.” However, one of his sons seems a better sort. He wrote an opinion in support of the halachic reasoning in a book that was confiscated by the Israeli police called The King’s Torah, as I recall. Among other things, this book argued against the so-called “purity of arms” doctrine of the IDF whereby soldiers’ lives are to be risked to protect the Mooooslims.)

skzion on October 8, 2013 at 12:42 am

    “Experience: The wisdom that enables us to recognize as an undesirable old acquaintance the folly that we have already embraced.”–Ambrose Bierce

    sk: After taking in your posts, I looked in the mirror and read the Bierce poem aloud….Twice.

    lee of the lower case "l" on October 8, 2013 at 1:05 am

      quote, not poem. It’s late in the evening.

      lee of the lower case "l" on October 8, 2013 at 1:07 am

Finally, if Yosef thought he erred, he need to correct the error in his reasoning as publicly as he propagated the error. He didn’t. “Predicting” that bad things would happen to Sharon after the Disengagement does not qualify. Nor did Yosef stir up trouble when the Amona pogrom occurred.

Frankly, his “reasoning” on political matters is so transparently flimsy that I’d be surprised to find anyone defending the substance of it.

At least he could have ruled that Moooslims had no business playing soccer and littering the Temple Mount.

skzion on October 8, 2013 at 12:50 am

    JUst shows how little you know about the workings of the rabbonim. It is not up to rabbis to judge goyim. What he might have done was ruled that the state and specifically Moshe Dayan were wrong to cede the Temple Mount in the first place and in fact, I believe he has done so.

    Bat Devorah (ha neviiah) on October 8, 2013 at 4:02 am

      “It is not up to rabbis to judge goyim.”

      -Italkit

      Lol! Ridiculous. Italkit just pulls this stuff from her arse. When the Rambam ruled that all members of a non-Jewish tribe were responsible for the crime of one of their members, did the Rambam err in “judging goyim”?

      “What he might have done was ruled that the state and specifically Moshe Dayan were wrong to cede the Temple Mount in the first place and in fact, I believe he has done so.”

      Oh she “believe[s] he has done so.” Hm. Notice that Italkit supplies no cite supporting this claim, which I have never heard of before. In fact, Yosef could have ruled at any time that the “leaders” of Israel were sinning terribly in allowing such hijinks on the Temple Mount, and he could have forbidden Arab presence there. But no, he was much more concerned by secular Jews driving on Shabbat.

      In fact, Yosef wanted Jews to have nothing to do with the actual Temple Mount. Rambam tells us that upon return, one of the first things Jews should do is rebuild the Temple. Yosef doesn’t even want Jews near the Temple Mount!

      skzion on October 8, 2013 at 2:03 pm

Thank you all, who, unlike the resident sodomite have been able to separate the GREAT man from his erroneous deeds. We all sin and fall short but we are weighed in the balance when we begin our journey into Olam Ha’Ba (the world to come) (Jewish version of “heaven” = The Garden of Eden.”) on our way to Gan Eden. I have no doubt that Rav Ovadia Z”L, will be found to weigh heavily on the righteous side of the scale, while still having to do tshuva (repentance) for his sins as we all will in our time. May it be an easy and speedy journey.

Bat Devorah (ha neviiah) on October 8, 2013 at 4:07 am

Rav Ovadia zt’l did retract the ruling in about surrendering land in 2005. But of course by then the then the damage had been done.

Of course the initial ruling went against centuries of consistent rulings by the Gedolim following the opinion of the Ramban and the same opinion though for different reasons of the Rambam.

Jew613 on October 8, 2013 at 6:00 am

    Yes, he erred grievously and he is probably paying for it right now. The Jewish view of the afterlife is more like purgatory. It’s not Heaven or Hell and that’s all folks. But he was a man and we all sin. Even Rambam sinned, count on it. The merciful teaching of “purgatory” allows for eventual repentance because life is the spirit, not the body. The supposed loving teachings of Christianity tell you that you’d better get it right in your flesh or ”Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.” Thank the Master of the Universe, blessed be He, for his mercies, unlike the harsh unbending demands of the false man-god that must be met in the flesh.
    As for the ruling, it could be undone but that would take our politicians listening to the correction and recantation. They choose to hear what they will.
    That such a Chacham Gadol of Torah could be corrupted by politics to this degree should be a warning to all of us who do not even come close to his knowledge and wisdom.

    Bat Devorah (ha neviiah) on October 8, 2013 at 6:45 am

    Jew613, I’m not at all convinced that Yosef retracted anything in 2005. Specifically, he did not reject his own justification for supporting land for piss. Instead, he claimed to oppose the Gaza expulsion because it was “unilateral.” Huh?

    skzion on October 8, 2013 at 1:05 pm

As an atheist, I know that only man can do and undo damage unto others.

DS, as an orthodox Ashkenazi, probably knew that as she called out Rav Yosef on his support for Oslo, if only because he failed or refuse to recognize the centuries-long tribal enmity between Arabs and Hebrews/Jews.

When you sell out your own people without understanding those to whom you’re selling, you might as well consider yourself a marked man.

And if the sellout were to result in the loss of lives, then you would surely have a lot to answer for in the Hereafter.

Happy trails, Rav Yosef. My Dad (z”l) would surely like to have words with you.

(Disclosure: my Dad’s family are Sefaradim who spent generations in Arzew before being expelled by Arabs in the Algerian Civil War in the 60s. Where the f–k was Rav Yosef at the time? My Dad would like to know.)

The Reverend Jacques on October 8, 2013 at 10:26 am

    Rev, Rav Ovadia was a teacher in Jerusalem. Have you researched it? At the time, there was no SHAS party and he was not a politician. It was probably the plight of Algerian Jews and others from Arab Countries that propelled him into politics later on when he saw how Sephardim go no respect and more than that were looked down upon. We’re still being called “svartzes” and in Yiddish, that is not simply “black” it is the N word.

    I don’t think he “sold out” Jews even tho he was wrong about Oslo. I don’t think his reasons were venal, I hope not anyway. But he was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, in his halachic reading of what was permissible to gain peace and save lives.

    BD: Rabbi Yosef was ALWAYS a politician from the beginning of his career as Chief Sephardic Rabbi of Israel (and actually before, since he ran a “campaign” to be elected the Chief Rabbi). That position is completely political. While you are right that there was no Shas Party at the time, he did instruct religious Jews to withdraw their support from Begin on the eve of the Camp David Accords. He sold out the Jews and the Sephardim especially when he absolutely fabricated Jewish law and claimed it supports land for non-existent peace via Oslo. DS

    Bat Devorah (ha neviiah) on October 8, 2013 at 12:19 pm

The Meran is spoken of in hushed tones of respect.

I can’t think any one who has been more admired than the Mori among Mizrahi Jews. Until now.

And you know what I think of Shalom Shabazzi’s poetry! But Yosef was more than a halachist – he made Zionism kosher among haredi Jews.

Shas became a Zionist party only a few years ago. And in the funeral we saw Jews from all walks of life come to pay their last respects to such a towering figure – almost 10% of Jewish Israelis. Its like 22 million Americans would go to the funeral of a celebrity.

I don’t think we will ever see anything like this again in Israel!

NormanF on October 8, 2013 at 10:30 am

Their was No Shas during the Camp David Days- Shas abstained during OSLO vote Which was essentially a vote for

GL: You are correct, but Rabbi Yosef threatened to pull support from the Likud/Herut coalition on the eve of Camp David. DS

G Laniado on October 8, 2013 at 10:41 am

Speaking of the guy Yosev in “hushed tones of respect” without critical thinking of his legacy is akin to worshiping a person. That is paganism.

It reminds me of fellow conservative Catholics who keep respecting and refusing to criticize Pope Francis, even though it is apparent the guy is a flaming socialist and liberal.

JM on October 8, 2013 at 11:32 am

I don’t think you were in the least bit disrespectful,…just nicely telling it like it is.

EA: Exactly. We Jews do not have a Pope. Anyone who elevates someone to that height in Judaism is asking for trouble. Everyone is fair game to be called out for their transgressions. DS

Esser Agaroth on October 8, 2013 at 12:20 pm

When it came to Oslo, I think that the Rav and many like Rabin and Peres so wanted a lasting peace that that desire overruled their common sense and judgement.

They should have known that you cannot negotiate in good faith with a foe who only wants your death and destruction. They should have known that the PLO could not be trusted. They should have known the Slick Willie Clinton was doing this to score political points and wasn’t looking out for his ally the Israelis, but they all wanted peace and the violence to end and instead they got neither from the Palistinians just more violence and a corrupt and dysfunctional enemy nation on their doorstep (Palistinian Authority).

jimmyPx on October 8, 2013 at 2:03 pm

Stepping back a bit, I notice that the criticism of Yosef elsewhere focuses some of the absolutely justified things he said about the Arabs. If only he really were so opposed to the Arabs.

I repeat: in visiting the Temple Mount (under rabbinic guidance), I personally saw the trash spewed all around, the Muz walking into and out of their Amalekite temples (“mosques”), all without any interference. As I wore a kippah, I waited in the “Jewish line,” where an anti-Jewish Jew kept me waiting; meantime, the goyim were allowed through immediately.

skzion on October 8, 2013 at 2:09 pm

May at this moment be with GOD

Jonathan Gartner on October 8, 2013 at 3:27 pm

I heard some bad things he said about Jews who were in the Holocaust. So I do not care about him passing on.

Glen Benjamin on October 8, 2013 at 4:09 pm

Again the sodomite reveals his ignorance of Hebrew and Judaism. Being a Bat or Ben (daughter, son, or child) of someone is not equating herself with that person, it is saying she is a daughter of and that can be a physical daughter or a SPIRITUAL daughter. IOW, one who aspires TO BE LIKE the Prophetess Devorah, even if I have a long way to go.
I did not graduate from Catholic school, I did attend but it is your equating the term “Bat or ben” with being someone that is Christian to the core. That is what christians don’t understand about their false messiah. If he called himself “son of God” he didn’t mean he was God but that was a nice claim to twist so they could justify their deceeptions.

You are a sodomite. That is the technical term for what you do, even if you don’t like it. The men of Sodom wanted to have sex with Lot’s sons in law. That was the sin they were destroyed for. And according to Torah, it is a CAPITAL OFFENSE.

Bat Devorah (ha neviiah) on October 8, 2013 at 5:12 pm

    “Again the sodomite reveals his ignorance of Hebrew and Judaism. Being a Bat or Ben (daughter, son, or child) of someone is not equating herself with that person, it is saying she is a daughter of and that can be a physical daughter or a SPIRITUAL daughter.”

    -Italkit, who wrote to me for advice about a homosexual family member

    If someone is a “SPIRITUAL daughter” of someone one is certainly likening oneself in some way to that person. Duh.

    “You are a sodomite. That is the technical term for what you do, even if you don’t like it. The men of Sodom wanted to have sex with Lot’s sons in law. That was the sin they were destroyed for. And according to Torah, it is a CAPITAL OFFENSE.”

    Sodomite sodomite sodomite! SODOMITE! Dearie, you sure write like someone with a genius IQ. First, “sodomite” is not a “technical term,” it is a religious term, and its specific use for homosexuals originated in Christianity. It is significant, no doubt, that in the very passages of Lev. that La Bat alludes to, there is no noun meaning “homosexual,” but only certain proscribed acts.

    Anyway, so that no one is swayed by this malignant dingbats’s “Judaism,” I will supply a link (from Chabad.org):

    http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/246615/jewish/The-Destruction-of-Sodom.htm

    As Italkit should also know, she is herself guilty of capital crimes. In fact, it’s easy to be guilty of them, or of very serious crimes. But Halacha does not actually implement capital punishment for these crimes. In any event, it is not a crime to be a homosexual, only certain acts (unclear, by the way, which acts) are forbidden. As Italkit used to admit on Israel National News (before her degree of evil fully manifested), one is not to assume that a fellow Jew sins or, if he sins, that he will always sin. Evidence is required. The overriding purpose is to reduce animosity and evil speech among Jews, and the purpose of making a conviction on a capital crime nearly impossible is to avoid the execution of large numbers of Jews for transgressing. Even a neophyte like me knows this.

    But here is the most important point: none of Italkit’s attacks have any relevance to the matter at hand. Good grief, if Bilaam, someone whose personality was fully as appealing as Italkit’s own, and who was a non-Jew, could be a prophet, surely li’l ol’ skzion is capable of offering up basic halacha. Even if confused and malicious Bat were right about Sodom, it doesn’t follow that I am wrong about Yosef.

    I repeat that Italkit considers herself a genius.

    skzion on October 8, 2013 at 7:22 pm

And the sodomite quotes Rambam and compares Rav Ovadia to him. Even Rambam as great as he was, was a man and fallible, especially if looked at in light of his time and place. In fact, he could not remain in Israel but had to flee to Egypt. He did not raise and army to prosecute a preemptive war. There is only ONE who is perfect. And there are many great rabbis, both Ashkenazi and Sephardi who believe we should not ascend the Temple Mount because we do not know where the Holy of Holies is and we might desecrate it. Some people are spiritually great enough to let Hashem have control and do things in HIS timing.

BTW, I thank Hashem for my Catholic education. It taught me how to think, it taught me history that most Americans don’t know and that as far as religion goes, Judaism is the one that makes sense. Sephardim have routinely sent their daughters to Catholic schools for this very reason. We got educations that girls in Russia were denied even into the last century. Most of the older North African women I know can speak French as well as Arabic and Hebrew, and some learned Italian too. They can read and write and they are acquainted with many other subjects. They ALL can recite the prayers by heart. They learned these skills in CATHOLIC schools. Can you say this of your Russian or Polish great-grandmothers? No, you cannot.

Bat Devorah (ha neviiah) on October 8, 2013 at 5:25 pm

    The Tsar is to blame for female illiteracy among Jews. Just want to clarify it’s not a matter of intelligence but when Jews were forbidden from receiving state education in Arab countries, they were permitted to use the Catholic schools and they did.

    Bat Devorah (ha neviiah) on October 8, 2013 at 5:29 pm

      Illiteracy among Jewish females goes back to well before the Tsar, to a time when most Jews were illiterate. As argued in the recent book “The Chosen Few”, it was in the aftermath of the destruction of Jerusalem that Rabbi Ben Gamla decreed that all Jewish *male* children be educated so they could read and study the Torah. (Many could not, or chose not to, follow that edict and were ultimately lost to the Jewish people.)

      As to restrictions on Jewish education in Arab lands, that brings to mind a family of traditional North African Jews that belonged to our small minyan long ago whose sons, I was told, spent several years studying in a Jesuit school before emigrating. The three sons all went on to excell. The one I knew best went on to Princeton and the World Bank. The second became a historian at Ben Gurion U (he wrote “The Jews of Libya”, which I haven’t read yet). And the third became a mining engineer in South America.

      Can’t keep educated Jews down. Of the eight Nobel winners announced so far this week, *six* are Jews. Among them, an Israeli who won for Chemistry.

      Raymond in DC on October 9, 2013 at 10:32 am

    “And the sodomite quotes Rambam and compares Rav Ovadia to him.”

    Actually, I do not “compare” Yosef to the Rambam. I simply paraphrase Rambam to show how Yosef’s rulings violated halacha. As Yosef was supposed to be this great scholar, I then pointed out that, if so, he must have known that his rulings were dead wrong and that dead Jews would result.

    “Even Rambam as great as he was, was a man and fallible, especially if looked at in light of his time and place. In fact, he could not remain in Israel but had to flee to Egypt. He did not raise and army to prosecute a preemptive war.”

    How dumb is La Bat? I never said the Rambam was infallible. It would be idiotic, in fact, for him to try to raise an army. And suicidal. But this is irrelevant because, for the the Jews of 20th century Israel, it was idiotic for them not to finish off the enemy that had already started a war against the Jews!

    Yes, Italkit is a genius.

    La Bat here takes a swipe at Ashkenazim. Given her previous racist comments about Ashkenazim, she treads delicately.

    skzion on October 8, 2013 at 7:32 pm

Can anyone answer this question.
What became of the very obese Iralie official
who went into a coma several years ago?
Sorry I can’t recall his name.
Cara

Cara on October 8, 2013 at 6:40 pm

http://youtu.be/LY_8NNcIb64?t=5m2s

Frankz on October 8, 2013 at 7:09 pm

The New York Post today reported a statement the Rabbi stated to Haaretz in 2010: “Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the people of Israel.” And here I thought that all of us – Goyim included – were born to serve and worship God. Too bad he wasn’t subjected to some scholarly questions about where this part of his theology came from in the Old Testament. And exactly how are the Israelis going to make billions of others serve them? And what would the Rabbi do to those who refused to serve only the Israelis? I guess it’s a moot point, for him at least. He has made an accounting to Him who walked the earth as a man (and as a Jewish rabbi) and will come again to rule the universe with a rod of iron from Jerusalem.

Concerned Citizen on October 8, 2013 at 8:40 pm

    CC, it’s obvious that I am no fan of “Shades” Yosef, but you should not rely on the anti-Semitic Haaretz for ANYTHING.

    skzion on October 9, 2013 at 12:20 am

It’s very telling that you didn’t comment on his widely known statements about “Gentiles”…

In an October 2010 sermon, Yosef stated that “The sole purpose of non-Jews is to serve Jews”. He said that Gentiles served a divine purpose: “Why are Gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat. That is why Gentiles were created.”

In the same article on the Jerusalem Post, according to the journalist who interviewed him, Yosef compared Gentiles to donkeys whose life has the sole purpose to serve the master: “In Israel, death has no dominion over them… With gentiles, it will be like any person – they need to die, but [God] will give them longevity. Why? Imagine that one’s donkey would die, they’d lose their money. This is his servant… That’s why he gets a long life, to work well for this Jew. Gentiles were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovadia_Yosef#Remarks_regarding_gentiles

Sorry, but as a “Gentile” myself, do you really expect me to respect someone who’s essentially calling for my enslavement?

That he’s one of the most important leaders of Jews is extremely disturbing. Can you really blame anti-Semites when Jewish leaders are making statements like the ones above?

That you didn’t condemn his remarks means that you support them and that you didn’t want we “subhuman Gentiles” to know about them…

Dampwaffles on October 9, 2013 at 3:10 am

    Gooey pancakes, it’s interesting that you show up suddenly on this topic. I don’t give a damn about Shades, but YOU are a scum.

    skzion on October 9, 2013 at 3:27 am

Yosef had his political representatives in Israel’s Knesset *abstain* over the Oslo Accords – the equivalent of voting “Present” – but had he come out against them, it’s likely they would have been rejected.

As to his subsequent shift to “the right”, I see them as an abandonment of his earlier disposition toward leniency and raising the status of Sephardi Jewry to its former glory. Sephardi schools were not pushed to be centers of scholarly achievement. Many in fact went in the direction of the Ashkenazi ultra-Orthodox, promoting full-time Torah study rather than gainful employment. That’s had a spill-over effect on the otherwise business oriented Syrian Jewish community in the US, many of whose sons return from a year or two studying in Israel now wanting to spend their time “learning Torah” instead. And in the wake of Yosef’s death, one of his sons is again promoting an exemption from IDF service. That’s also part of his legacy.

Raymond in DC on October 9, 2013 at 10:49 am

    “As to his subsequent shift to “the right”, I see them as an abandonment of his earlier disposition toward leniency and raising the status of Sephardi Jewry to its former glory. Sephardi schools were not pushed to be centers of scholarly achievement. …”

    Raymond, I’m not sure I understand you here.

    skzion on October 9, 2013 at 4:39 pm

Leave a Reply

* denotes required field