January 27, 2017, - 3:55 am

How Mary Tyler Moore Hurt America for Generations

By Debbie Schlussel

Is it just me . . . or are you tired of hearing about Saint Mary Tyler Moore? What did she do that was so great or important for America? Nothing. In fact, her “contribution” to America’s pop culture was a negative one . . . and nothing to be wistful about. Nope.

In the last month the gushing over and beatifying of Carrie Fisher, George Michael, Debbie Reynolds, and now Mary Tyler Moore, has really been absurd and over the top. You’d think these mere celebrities were gods or that they cured cancer. Here’s a tip: they weren’t and they didn’t. Not even close.

For two days now, we’ve been treated to the Mary Tyler Moore bandwagon (and it hasn’t ended yet, as tonight ABC News’ “20/20” will air an hour special gushing over this showbiz Mother Theresa). We’ve been told what a great woman she was because she was a decent-looking, perky actress who approvingly played a feminist along with America-hater Ed Asner on her own eponymous “Mary Tyler Moore Show.” The media, including PAWNN (the Prince Al-Waleed News Network a/k/a FOX News), instruct us that MTM was “revolutionary” because she was a single working woman. ABC News and NBC News informed us that she helped American women’s lives because she wore capri pants instead of a skirt. Yes, really, they “reported” this pearl of wisdom.

We were also told that MTM’s “major” contribution to the silver screen was “Ordinary People.” But that movie stank. It was dark, it explored and branded attempted suicide and the death of a teen child as entertainment, and it helped birth nearly four decades (so far) of dark, awful movies that treat overwrought, melodramatic, strife-riven garbage as “thoughtful and sophisticated.” Ordinary People also glorified the destruction and breakdown of the upper-middle-class American family. Today, we see repeats of this kind of movie in “Manchester By the Sea,” where the disintegration of American families is celebrated in film and given awards (the crappy movie–read my review–was nominated for several Academy Awards this week). That’s not to mention the cultural softness in which every teen seems to be in therapy, after movies like Ordinary People glorified teens in perpetual counseling.

I wish I could say that Mary Tyler Moore’s star turn–as an angry, distressed mother and wife in a bitter marriage and bitter relationship with her surviving son–contributed nothing to America with this movie. But instead, she created a template for cinematic darkness and cultural despair that has diseased real-life American families to make this the current status quo, with broken families dominating our country’s landscape. It was to be expected, though, because that’s the natural progression of the single working woman feminist of the Mary Tyler Moore. She got older and bitter about how life turned out after following the feminist siren call and not having life turn out her way. In a way, you might say that Mary Tyler Moore got the ball rolling on Hillary Clinton’s November disappointment. Feminists liked Mary Tyler Moore because she put a pretty, friendly, palatable face on ugly feminists. But, later, with Hillary reality TV, we saw what they really look like. And, now, Mary Tyler Moore is hardly even a memory. Most Americans today–including Millennials and the generation after them–never heard of her.

In the end, Mary Tyler Moore’s own life was one in which she longed for the traditional in contrast with the example she set on TV for America’s women. She looked for love with a husband repeatedly, marrying three times. She had one son, who died in an accidental self-inflicted gun shot. He was her only child. And when asked in an interview what she regretted as she looked back on her life, Moore said that she wished she’d had more children. She talked about how her father researched the history of the Moore family which arrived in America in the 1700s and that she was now the last of them because she didn’t have enough children to leave any descendants. Funny how she didn’t mention that she wished she’d had more freedom and independence as a woman and . . . worn more capri pants with Ed Asner. Or had equal pay for equal work. These aren’t the things women remember on their deathbeds.

Moore, who was a vegetarian animal rights activist and endorsed Jimmy Carter in 1980, said that she later watched FOX News and refused Gloria Steinem’s calls to join her movement. Moore said that she believed women should raise children and Steinem didn’t. But while she may have kinda sorta seen the light, her attempt to differentiate her TV feminism from Gloria Steinem’s real life version is a distinction without a difference. Her TV show complemented and reinforced Steinem’s movement on America’s streets. She said she disagreed with Steinem’s belief that women should have a career. But that was the whole raison d’etre for Moore’s show and her claim to fame–playing a driven career woman. It’s now too late to put the genie back in the bottle.

It’s fitting that just as Melania Trump becomes the First Lady, Mary Tyler Moore is gone. Sadly, I don’t think America will ever return to the days when women could stay home and raise children, as the new First Lady has done and has returned to New York to do. The economy has adjusted to two-income households–in the dwindling number of homes not headed by single mothers. And it’s not hip to be just a mom. Or at least it isn’t supposed to be.

But how many women would rather be in the shoes of Mrs. Trump than in the capris of Mary Tyler Moore? Poll after poll shows the answer is A LOT.

Thanks to what the late-but-not-really-so-great Mary Tyler Moore set into motion through her TV show, it’s too late.

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58 Responses

The review of Moore’s work and it’s effects are spot on, sadly enough. She was cast as the progressive women on the go, in the know character for her last show and that hurt her own life as Debbie pointed out. But I do disagree as to the effect of the movie ‘Ordinary People’, but I’m no movie critic. For me, and I have some personal experience with such events, the movie showed how important it is for families to maintain and build their own connections and solve their problems. The character played by Moore wasn’t for me the denigration of the homebound women but rather the blase’ indifference that the women couldn’t or wouldn’t escape. That the husband, and the son both did accomplish the difficult personal reunion didn’t for me destroy the idea of the meaning and strenght of family but rather, how fate can pose enormous challenges to the family and the individual and how people need to learn how to deal with such trauma. And the character of the shrink wasn’t of the need for permanent therapy, but rather to learn how to cope with great loss and go on and live as a family. Maybe I’m off base here but other movies of course do denigrate the family and mean to do just that, but I thought that one movie although dark, did open the door on how important it is for families to navigate tragedy individually and together. JMO

mgoldberg on January 27, 2017 at 7:30 am

    you seem to whine more than you actually analyze. What’s your favorite movie anyway?

    Cary on January 27, 2017 at 10:01 am

      How was Debbie whining? She basically pointed out how the Mary Tyler Moore Show and Ordinary People were really putdowns of stay at home moms and traditional families. Debbie also pointed out that Mary Tyler Moore herself recognized the limits of Feminism herself after it was too late. That is hardly whining.

      Worry01 on January 27, 2017 at 5:26 pm

    I so agree with you. Ordinary People was awesome.

    DaveB on January 27, 2017 at 9:06 pm

What was spotlighted in this article was somewhere in the back of my mind, as well, in light of all this drumbeat of how Ms. Moore was a “pioneer” of TV sitcoms (in a sense, she was – but in the wrong way). My own pet cat (whom I’ve had for over 17 years) has more spunk – true spunk – than MTM.

I predict a similar deconstruction of her onetime “Mary Tyler Moore Show” co-star, and later star of the spinoff “Rhoda,” Valerie Harper, when she finally meets her maker. Because in a true sense she is part of at least a trifecta (along with Ms. Moore and “One Day at a Time’s” Bonnie Franklin) who helped contribute to the sorry state of America as we’ve come to up to the point President Trump was elected and took office. (Notice I brought up the world of TV. In print media, we all know about Helen Gurley Brown’s [R.I.H.] role in destroying the moral and social fabric in America – and certainly those familiar with this site sure do.)

Concerned Patriot on January 27, 2017 at 8:46 am

I think there are some broader reasons why so much is made of the death of these entertainers.

First, of course, a number of people mourn them since they enjoyed their entertainment (or politics, or whatever).

Then, there is the profit motive. Keep people interested in spending money on people like these.

But the third reason is a little more devious. Glorifying all these dead liberals helps perpetuate the myth that entertainers should be listened to politically when they spout their nonsense. This amplified mourning is designed partially to elevate the political pronouncements of entertainers, especially those still alive, to a lofty pedestal.

Incidentally, it seems to me that the entertainers (sic) who have attacked President Trump the most vocally (Jane Fonda and others like her come to mind) are those who are past their prime and have less to lose.

Little Al on January 27, 2017 at 8:53 am

    Little Al,

    Speaking of Jane Fonda. Do you think that anyone will give a care when she finally buys the farm. I know several veterans who will gladly line up to how do I put this delicately “tinkle on her headstone.”

    Ken B on January 27, 2017 at 11:53 am

      She will be treated in an iconic way by the mainstream media, and the whole liberal establishment.

      BTW, almost complete silence regarding the recent passing of Mike Connors, and what there is manages to get in a few digs, like calling him a “B Actor”.

      While Mannix was not completely free of political correctness, it was nothing like the garbage identified with Moore, and Mike Connors, as far as I know was a patriotic American his entire life.

      Little Al on January 27, 2017 at 2:11 pm

        Actually, Connors was an interesting fellow, and he served in the Army Air Corps in WWII. http://www.nndb.com/people/016/000022947/

        KENT on January 27, 2017 at 2:47 pm

        Mike Conners was a Republican and we know Hollyood and the media don’t like that!

        SSgt Preston, USMC on January 30, 2017 at 2:10 pm

When I was young I enjoyed the entertainment provided by The Dick Van Dyke Show, Mary Tyler Moore, etc. But I never saw her as a “movement,” as some others did. As the years went by, I became rather distressed at what Debbie rightfully refers to as the beatification of MTM.

Fast forward a few decades, and two night ago I was in a once well known restaurant space that a close friend’s grandfather started in 1904. We have been cleaning out the space recently, after the place was closed down by the state due to the owner’s evasion of taxes last summer.

My friend’s family has not been part of the restaurant’s operations since the early 90’s. It went to a new owner with an agreement to keep the name, then eventually to the schmuck that ran it in to the ground and besmirched the family name of my friend.

After supervising the debris and rubbish removal crew, I waited for my friend to come pay me, lock up and give me my marching orders for what will be one final day in the space next week, the very last of the clean ups.

I already had seen the news on my phone during the day. He walked in and told me that Mary Tyler Moore died. I said “it’s about time.” He looked at me, chuckled and inquired quite surprised, “it’s about time?” Such a statement is COMPLETELY out of character for me. But I nodded and affirmed that I did indeed say that.

Because that’s how I felt, and all I could think of to say.

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on January 27, 2017 at 8:55 am

“It was dark, it explored and branded attempted suicide and the death of a teen child as entertainment”

What does this even mean? How would you adapt that (best selling) novel to film without having those elements? Should all movies (and books) just ignore anything unpleasant about life?

Vic on January 27, 2017 at 9:38 am

So true Vic! It was an excellent movie. So many movies and TV show make it seem like life moves on quickly after the death of a family member. It takes years and some people never get over it at all. When people ‘Ordinary People’ this they know they aren’t alone feeling this way.

Lee on January 27, 2017 at 9:50 am

You’ll be happy to know that I and most of my friends ate stay-at-home moms and homemakers. The reason you think that we are extinct or a minority is probably because of the media and its refusal to show that we exist. There are many more of us out here than you will know. And our husbands are 100% behind our managing the home and raising our children. Thanks for all that you do.

DinaK on January 27, 2017 at 9:52 am

I didn’t even like OP (the film) all that much. I thought it was trite and shallow. But that was a stupid reason to object to it. What’s next? “‘Long Day’s Journey into Night’ branded morphine addiction as entertainment!”

Vic on January 27, 2017 at 9:56 am

Hi Dear Debbie thanks for all the Info! and God bless you always! very sincerlly yours Tirdad G.

TIRDAD GHARIB on January 27, 2017 at 10:38 am

I disagree with your analysis of Mary Tyler Moore. She was a strong woman who helped women by showing she was strong and independent. She and her husband produced TV shows. Yes she may have regretted having more children but sometimes that happens.

Her life was a tragic one filled with alcoholic parents, the early death of her sister and son by overdose and gunshot. Also the early death of her brother. At least she did charitable work to fight diabetes of which she had. You see life to often thru your lens of being an Orthodox Jew. Yet many Orthodox Jews are much worse than she ever was. Having a large family and being religious does not make one a saint. Mary Tyler Moore lived life to the fullest and shoukd be acknowledged for hoeing that women can be all they can be.

GB: Actually, I do not come from a large family and don’t advocate that. You seem to approach Orthodox Jews through the lens of the ignorant and misinformed. My view of MTM has to do with the liberal progressive woman archetype she pimped on America, then pretended she didn’t. It didn’t bode well for the country, now that so many women are forced to work and are single, “independent” mothers. You fail to address that. This doesn’t have to do with being Orthodox–and I’m modern Orthodox, the most liberal version of Orthodox Judaism, which many other Orthodox Jews do not consider religious enough. Rather than being a result of my religious beliefs, my view of MTM has to do with bad social policy that’s wreaked havoc on America for decades after pop culture elements like the MTM Show made progressivism seem glamorous. So unfortunate that you don’t get that and missed the point of the column in order to attack Orthodox Jews (who are not monolithic, BTW), with whom you seem to have an unexplained axe to grind. DS

Glen Benjamin on January 27, 2017 at 10:47 am

And MTM’s “strong” character on her eponymous show, in many ways, was anything but. Some critics, both in the years since the show left the air and then in the wake of her death, noted how “timid” in certain situations her Mary Richards character was, and in a sense her “Mr. Grant!” cry on that show was as emblematic of her TV persona as “Oh, Rob!” had been when she was playing capri-wearing Laura Petrie on “The Dick Van Dyke Show.” I doubt, though, that Ms. Moore was unique in terms of the cognitive dissonance between what she was “pimping” on America in the guise of “entertainment” and her own divergent private life.

Some of the copycat shows that followed in the MTM Show’s wake were, if anything, worse for America in hindsight in terms of the “bad social policy” that hath been wrought since then. British actress Diana Rigg (a.k.a. “Emma Peel” on “The Avengers”) helmed a very short-lived sitcom where she played a divorcee who was working for a fashion designing firm, and where one of the characters was gay (this was right at the point PBS was running “An American Family”). It was shot at the same studios where the MTM Show was filmed, but only lasted half a season.

Concerned Patriot on January 27, 2017 at 12:18 pm

The thing that I find interesting in the Trump family is that while the women who have married into it – Melania and Vanessa – are stay at home moms while Lara is a housewife, Ivanka is anything but that.

Another thing is that a lot of the companies that are being enticed back into the US have automated much, if not most, of the grunt work. All those car factories coming back to MI won’t rehire either the past nor newly graduated workers in assembly lines, since most of that would be done by robots. It’s more likely to be in higher levels of operation that people get hired.

In other words, as more jobs get automated, there will be less jobs available for people, which explains the trend towards the support of something known as ‘universal basic income’. Once that happens, not only will you have more stay at home moms, you’ll have more stay at home parents as well

Infidel on January 27, 2017 at 3:20 pm

thanks Debbie

I was wonder when you would address this. MTM and company and the likes of Alan Alda and MASH did more to destroy the Judeo Christian underpinnings of the west than the entrenched communists in the white house since the 30, 40s and 50s (and yes there still are some there today).


General P. Malaise on January 27, 2017 at 3:33 pm

Anyone remember ‘That Girl’? The (1966-1971) Marlo Thomas sitcom that MTM was very influenced by? Thomas admitted that she was inspired to do the show by the work of Betty Friedan.

Vic on January 27, 2017 at 3:53 pm

I was a regular watcher of That Girl.

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on January 27, 2017 at 4:36 pm

Thank you Debbie! I found this article beautifully written…

PDMac60 on January 27, 2017 at 4:54 pm

Though I haven’t watched the series for quite a while, I remember “The MTM Show” as being the antithesis of the strident, political Norman Lear shows- I certainly never felt it had an “agenda.” The nonsense about “feminism” seems to come more from the likes of the NY Times’ obit; everything to them is viewed through the filter of far-Left politics. It’s also striking that the oft-mentioned “capri pants” are absurdly mentioned as some sort of “modern woman” statement- the “Van Dyke Show”‘s initial success was as much due to her physical attractiveness as anything else, something which is un-PC to acknowledge in the Liberal media! I thought she was funny, charming, and (in her first series) stunningly sexy- RIP!

Robert Morgan on January 27, 2017 at 6:33 pm

    I’d say that at least part of the initial success of “The Dick Van Dyke Show,” especially regarding its two leads, may have had something to do with the afterglow of the JFK and Jackie era – and cult worship thereof that was generated even then. After all, the two leads – Mr. Van Dyke and Ms. Moore – were relatively young at the time, and projected a vibe not unlike the then-President and “glamorous” First Lady. And it premiered later in the same year as Kennedy’s inauguration.

    ConcernedPatriot on January 28, 2017 at 11:48 am

You’re single, childless and have a career, Debbie…Can you get a credit card or a mortgage or buy a car without a husband? Could you have worked if you were married and pregnant if you didn’t work for yourself? Can you work for yourself? How did you get business loans for yourself, alone? All those things only happened in the 1970’s to near 1980, and due in no small part to portrayals of independent unmarried women.

L: I don’t owe MTM or any of these fraudulent pop culture portrayals of single women for anything I’ve achieved in life. I owe it to hard work and strong parents who told me to go out and get what I want, something many other women did before it was on TV or anywhere else. However, it’s a good argument–as I’ve already made here–that these fraudulent, glamorous portrayals of independent single women have caused the social breakdown of America and the American family, something you don’t seem to think is a problem. MTM and the others did nothing for women who wanted to earn money and do something with their lives. DS

Lisa on January 27, 2017 at 7:34 pm


Looking forward to your critique of the (((creator))) of Good Times, All in The Family and the Jefferson when those cast members start going tits up.

malibu on January 27, 2017 at 8:01 pm

A short blurb…

As a kid in the 1970s, I would wind up watching the MTM show. I never got into that, but I could never get that theme song out of my head.

In the old days, when an actor died old age (& treachery), there would be a lengthy article on achievements including a bio and filmography. And that would be the end of that.

In this age of social media and instant news, today’s celebrity deaths are now treated with overkill. Yes, I still miss Bowie, Prince and Cohen a lot. But life goes on, and I have to trend to my own pressing issues.

I’ll shed a tear for MTM, just like I did for Princess Leia and her mom, but I will eventually get on with my own life. Because in the end, all dead people look alike, and I know that soon, I’ll be joining their ranks.

The Reverend Jacques on January 27, 2017 at 8:03 pm

I agree with you, Debbie, to a point but Mary Tyler Moore spent her whole adult life being an advocate for Juvenile Disbetes raising millions of dollars for funding research for a cure with that advocacy. To say she did “nothing” is offensive. Saying that, yep, she was a 100% crazy liberal and doesn’t deserve the ridiculous over the top accolades and certainly all the gushing over any of them is ridiculous. Being Hollywood “stars” doesn’t make them eligible for sainthood.

JT: MTM had diabetes as an adult, so this was in her own self-interest and also served to mask how she probably got diabetes. She was an alcoholic, and many alcoholics get diabetes because of their heavy drinking. Raising money for the Juvenile Diabetes Relief Fund is more of the fraud she put over on America. Instead, she should have said, “America, I was a drunk and probably because of it, I got diabetes. Don’t drink and end up like me.” She didn’t do that, preferring to pretend she was some sort of saint, instead. DS

Judy Turner on January 27, 2017 at 8:15 pm

    So what. My late paternal grandmother (whom I adored) got diabetes in her 40s and she wasn’t a drinker. I know many people who got diabetes later in life. Most have weight problems though. My late grandmother didn’t. Diabetes charities thought MTM would make a good spokesperson. Clearly you beg to differ.
    Yes, it would be convenient if more mothers stayed at home to raise their children. These feminists shouldn’t attack them.
    Moving along, my parents were raised in Jewish American working-classed families in where both of their parents worked. My grandmothers and my mom aren’t feminists either. They didn’t feel abandoned by their working mothers when they grew up, they felt loved by their mothers. Though many children of career women do feel neglected.
    By the way MTM production company produced Hill Street Blues which I believe Debbie is one of your favorite shows.

    M: I’m not saying adults with diabetes got it from being alcoholics. I’m just saying that MTM probably got it that way as she was an admitted alcoholic and checked into Betty Ford. You are correct that until recently, I was a huge fan of Hill Street Blues. But, now, I think maybe that was just nostalgia. I’ve recently tried to watch the reruns on the H&I (Heroes & Icons) Channel, which is digital and free to those of us without cable (it’s on most local FOX stations’s digital channels). And I think the show doesn’t really pass the test of time. I no longer think it was such a great show. It was just okay, if that. That said, there were a lot of great actors on the show and I still love the theme music. But I guess my tastes have changed since that time. DS

    Matthew on January 28, 2017 at 9:14 pm

    Debbie brings up something that is exactly what Mickey Mantle said. I don’t really think anyone has made this a forum for bashing MTM. My rather gruff remark to my friend a few nights ago, and some of the comments here were not necessarily made out of a dislike for Mary. She seemed like she was probably a very nice lady.

    Speaking for myself, I had simply become rather tired of what Debbie’s salient point was, the beatification of people who have done nothing except lived lives in the entertainment field.

    That’s not necessarily all the celebrity’s fault, but they sure do play in to it. It’s a combination of things, like the song the media plays in wooing us to worship these people. It’s also a combination of how we let our minds be captured by the glitz and glamour of the shadow they cast over the culture.

    MTM was an entertainer, that’s it. She didn’t invent new tools, cure diseases, or lead people in to any promised land. She lived in the Hollywood land of make believe. Her personal life had tragedies which I recognize, and respect her grief and that of the others affected.

    But regarding Debbie’s comment to JT, if anyone wants to see someone who stood up to take responsibility for their foibles, simply, quickly and without fanfare, just look at Mickey Mantle’s last press conference. A gaunt looking, weak voiced Mantle stepped up to the microphone in front of a shocked world and said “you want to know what a role model is, take a look at me, I’m a role model, don’t be like me.”

    Straightforward, truthful, taking full responsibility, and making sure to point out his own bad example. Anyone know of any other major cultural entertainment personality who did something like that? No spin, just the facts.

    Alfredo from Puerto Rico on January 29, 2017 at 10:00 am

I hate to disagree with you Debbie, but the MTM show is still funny and watchable is because it does NOT preach feminism. OK, sometimes it did wade into those waters, but it was mostly about Mary and her friends. It was about work and relationships. Check out some episodes on You Tube. Sometimes the show actually made fun of feminism and liberalism (the one where she hires a sportscaster who only wants to report on swimming is a hoot). Those shows are non-political, unlike All In the Family and others. Ordinary People was a great movie that revealed how we hide our true selves behind mere words and day-to-day routines. It was about how tragedy ultimately reveals who we really are. Beautifully done. So much truth. The love of the father for his son was moving. The mother was so emotionally barren as to be a tragic figure. But she was very real. MTM was no saint, but who is? RIP

DaveB on January 27, 2017 at 9:05 pm

I completely agree with your points. Her character was hard to watch even for a kid. I look at her example as sad as well. Probably had a house full of cats.

Samurai on January 28, 2017 at 9:33 am

As a matter of fact Samurai, she did. I know someone who went to the same vet as MTM.

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on January 28, 2017 at 1:39 pm

Mary Tyler Moore wasn’t the first single working woman to be on television. Eve Arden portrayed a single working woman in the show “Our Miss Brooks” which aired back in the early 1950’s. Doris Day played a single working woman in her show that ran from 1968 to 1973.

Samantha on January 28, 2017 at 1:43 pm

Come to think of it, the MTM show, as Debbie noted, did indeed project an agenda. But it was more subtle compared with the obviousness of Norman Lear’s soapboxes – er, programs.

ConcernedPatriot on January 28, 2017 at 2:09 pm

I’m okay with a house full of cats, by the way. I’ve had a bunch in my lifetime. Going to visit a friend who has requested my presence for the Super Bowl, although I’m no longer interested in, or watching the NFL. He and his girl have a house full of cats. It would have been fuller if two hadn’t died shortly before she moved in.

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on January 28, 2017 at 3:17 pm

I’m not going to be as harsh on Mary Tyler Moore as many of you have been. She was a very funny woman. She deserved a lot better from life than what she got. Sure,feminism opened a lot of doors for women,but the way it was done with a lot of male bashing rhetoric did no one any good. It could have been done A LOT better.
While MTM brought a lot of smiles into people’s lives,she sure could have used some herself. She lost her brother,sister,and son at early ages. I’m going to save my vitriol for people who genuinely deserve it,like Fidel Castro or Hugo Chavez. Those guys left little,if anything positive for the world. Mary Tyler Moore left behind two great sitcoms that’ll be enjoyed forever. A shame she couldn’t have had more kids or a family to have gone along with it.

Ghostwriter on January 28, 2017 at 9:27 pm

Depicting is not the same thing as “glorifying.” A movie showing the disintegration of a family (as if this doesn’t happen in real life), like Ordinary People,” is not denigrating the institution of the family. It’s merely dramatizing an overwhelmingly difficult situation. The movie was based on a novel — was the novel anti-family as well?

Primetime on January 29, 2017 at 1:21 am

Speaking of celebrities who have been elevated to godlike status, we all know about the Million P_ssy March recently. I just read Debbie’s article about Ashley Judd for at least the third time.

The article is about 8 1/2 years old. It just goes to show ya, . . .

once a whack job, ALWAYS a whack job.

Ashley Judd. At least MTM DID something, BIG things in front of TV cameras. Ashley Judd?!??!??!?!!!! How did SHE get her cache?


Never mind.

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on January 29, 2017 at 10:41 am

Okay, the article is about 7 1/2 years old. I need to drink this coffee and smoke this joint faster. Breakfast is the most important meal of the day, and I’m letting it (them) go stale. Time to get those cranial neurons going.

Anyone ever give a thought to my riddle? It’s back there now. Karl was a coward. He never came back to guess it. I can always resurrect it, but I’d prefer to throw it at a Muslim troll.

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on January 29, 2017 at 10:44 am

Just when you thought it was safe to go on the net again, much less go outside. A headline from a “news” web site. Kim and Khloe get political.

Uhhhhhhh, why can’t they just go away? Or stop having “news” outlets fill their space with what I don’t want to hear from two people I never wanted to know about.

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on January 29, 2017 at 11:39 am

Per Debbie’s points about MTM’s alcoholism and the possibility of its contributing to her diabetes (with which she was diagnosed as ‘Type I’ while working on the very first season of her own self-titled show): Ms. Moore admitted she began drinking while working on “The Dick Van Dyke Show.” It was while working on that same program that Mr. Van Dyke, himself, developed a drinking problem that he would more or less “conquer” in the 1970’s. Whereas MTM kept on drinking like a fish until the early to mid-’80’s and her Betty Ford stint.

ConcernedPatriot on January 29, 2017 at 7:19 pm

Against my better judgement, I saw Ordinary People and thought it was ridiculous. I usually don’t see movies like that b/c I can spot sanctimonious, absurd movies a mile away. I don’t remember why I saw it. Maybe someone recommended it to me. Whatever. We live in a culture that worships celebrities. It’s sad.

Hillel on January 29, 2017 at 9:13 pm

Yes, Hillel, the school bus driver, the carpenter, the lady on the auto assembly line, the plumber’s apprentice, the party of da woikin man, da little guy, they ignore those people and turn their attention to the likes of Ashley Judd, Madonna, Gwyneth Paltrow and Rosie O’Donnell.

Quite sad.

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on January 29, 2017 at 9:58 pm

My mother divorced my very successful but much older father when she was 29 in 1966 “because she missed out on life getting married at 18”. Us three children went from filet mignon and a housekeeper to TV Dinners and “Mommie Dearest” style house cleaning as my mother had to go back to the work force; her last job at 18 was as a secretary, so she became a secretary again followed a few years later with a career as a real estate agent. The MTM Show was her favorite show; I realize know that’s probably because it validated her selfish choice to divorce my bread winning father.

Todd on January 30, 2017 at 2:32 pm

You are no longer allowed to wear slacks again, ever. Only dresses, kitten heels and pearls for house cleaning.
You have NO idea, young lady, what freedoms others won for you. Including having a voice online.

LC: Hilarious. Nobody won ANYTHING for me. Everything I got was from hard work. NOT dumb characters on TV. Period. DS

Liz Comeriato on January 31, 2017 at 12:35 am

    No, you don’t understand, Liz. Debbie goes along with how ALL conservatives view women. It’s like George Carlin (RIP) once said, they believe a woman’s primary role is to function as a brood mare for the state.

    Brad Ribelin on February 1, 2017 at 12:14 am

      Actually Brad, the statists are the Democrats, and the brood mares are the illegals they bring in with y’know, the “anchor babies” trailing in front and back of them on their trek. Gotta have a steady voting base, and since Democrats are out to see that as many black American women have abortions as possible, their chosen brood mares are in fact, the so called Hispanics, or Latinos, the illegal ones.

      Alfredo from Puerto Rico on February 1, 2017 at 12:21 am

Liz, Debbie’s already given you the perfect answer, but SERIOUSLY?!??!?!??!!!! I don’t know how old you are, but Mary Richards and Laura Petrie were MAKE BELIEVE CHARACTERS!!! THEY WON NOTHING FOR ANYBODY!!!

It’s folks like you who THINK so, that are what’s really holding society back from seeing the UNVARNISHED TRUTH about life. It’s bad enough our celebrities wind up believing their press clippings, but a populace who believes them too, . . .

winds up getting America right where it’s at, . . .

on the brink of destruction.

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on January 31, 2017 at 8:41 am

I’ve been re-watching the Mary Tyler Moore shows since her death, and realizing the terrible results in my own life, and especially my mom’s life, from buying into the show’s world view.

I’m so happy that women are changing their priorities, and rediscovering the importance of putting the family first.

Laura D on February 3, 2017 at 7:42 am

I was going to ask Debbie about this privately, but as long as this thread is still fairly active, how about this? It can perhaps be argued that the MTM show paved the way for Maude, and the creation of Maude made it okay for women to start kicking ass, figuratively and literally.

Maude helped kick the door open not just for independent women, but for them to be domineering battle axes at home. Husband stays demure, keeps his mouth shut, upon penalty of a verbal ass kicking. And just in case they didn’t, women started kicking ass for real also.

I like strong (physically and mentally), independent women, but there’s a point at which a needle goes to a range on the scale which reads “burnt, please remove from oven.”

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on February 3, 2017 at 9:26 am

    I thought, even then, that the Maude character seemed to have been patterned after another obnoxious loudmouth “feminist” of the time – hat-wearing Congresswoman Bella Abzug, whose husband, from what I read, was likewise emasculated. And their daughter, Liz, a second-generation politician, became a lesbian. Go figure. It was also the period when the media made a big deal of such politicians as Shirley Chisholm and Barbara Jordan (which in their case, was a kind of two-fer, as they were also, as we would refer today, African-American).

    ConcernedPatriot on February 6, 2017 at 7:13 am

The masculinization of women, my salient point.

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on February 3, 2017 at 9:27 am

I’m sick of la la land and it’s filthy liberal “stars” who can’t seem to stay in their lane. I no longer watch movies, buy music or books, or patronize the entertainment business of liberal t.wats….they better hope the stupid azz moron masses are still buying their brand of bull crap so they can sustain their extravagant lifestyles….would love to see them get a big fat reality check, like everyone boycotts them and stops buying their crap and going to their movies and shows, and they become the poverty stricken turds they deserve to be. Nasty Madonna,ugly Sarah,idiot Ashton, creepy Ashley, hag Meryl,vagina-fixated Gwyneth, insipid Scarlett….oh, the list goes on and on, but they can all take a fast train to the devil and I hope they enjoy their duties with him.

Sofa king on February 4, 2017 at 6:22 am

Btw: I don’t mourn any “stars” passing into the great beyond…didn’t personally know any of them, so don’t personally give a crap that they’re gone. The only ones who seem to get their knickers twisted over famous people dying are their sycophantic hangers-on and the liberal media, who adore all things reprobate and anti-conservative. The only thing the “stars” need us for is to support them and their extravagant, over the top lifestyles….it’s bad enough my tax money goes to support deadbeats and baby breeders, I’m not using my own money to help a liberal butt-wipe “star” get another house in the Mediterranean or wherever they’re buying these days.

Sofa king on February 4, 2017 at 8:05 am

“. . . who adore all things reprobate and anti-conservative.”

How sadly true, Sofa king. The worship and admiration of such is the downfall of “this once great republic.”

Alfredo from Puerto Rico on February 4, 2017 at 9:06 am

How sad that you have the need to write something so negative about Mary Tyler Moore. I would think if you didn’t like the attention her death received that you would respectfully ignore it. Sometimes it isn’t completely about the actor but how that person reflects upon our own lives. I happen to have loved the Mary Tyler Moore Show and now in looking back and reminiscing, it was a part of my life which I thoroughly enjoyed. You don’t have to like her or the show. That’s fine. But to focus, especially after she’s dead on everything you didn’t like is meaningless. There’s no constructive value in it. A negative blogger. Hope I never meet you in person Debbie Downer!

Cathy on March 31, 2017 at 7:12 am

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