October 8, 2009, - 12:06 pm

EXCLUSIVE: Man Slated to be Obama’s Top Immigration Agent Investigated for Embezzlement

By Debbie Schlussel

DebbieSchlussel.com has learned that Robert Schoch, the Special Agent in Charge of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) for Los Angeles, is under investigation for alleged embezzlement and/or misuse of ICE funds used in undercover operations.  Mr. Schoch and the Los Angeles Deputy Special Agent in Charge, Jennifer Silliman, were escorted from the ICE federal offices in Long Beach, California, and their badges and guns were taken from them (standard procedure when an agent is under investigation and put on leave).  They were both put on administrative leave pending a continuing investigation.  A search warrant was reportedly executed on Agent Schoch’s home, and sources say his computers from both his LAX and Long Beach offices were seized.



Normally, this would be inside baseball stuff.  But Schoch was slated by Obama Administration officials running ICE to be Director of Investigations of ICE, meaning that he would be running and overseeing all ICE investigations worldwide.  His appointment to that position was imminent, even as he was reportedly being investigated by ICE’s Office of Professional Responsibility and, reportedly, the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Los Angeles.  The right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing at ICE. . . and doesn’t care.

I contacted ICE’s PR people, yesterday afternoon, regarding this story, and they would neither confirm nor deny it.  However, it’s all over ICE.  Agents are wondering why a man who was, himself, under investigation was chosen and about to be named their agency’s chief investigator.  It sounds like a joke, but it’s very real and, sadly, very typical of the agency for which they work and where morale continues to plummet.

It’s more bad news about an agency that continues to be mismanaged, without aim or specific purpose, and cannibalized by inept and dishonest supervisors and bureaucrats, who use the agency as their own personal harems, “The Bachelorette” show sets, and nightly falalafel dinner opportunities with Muslims galore (that means you, Abu Moskowitz).  And you wonder why illegal aliens continue to laugh at them . . . and us.  I’ll be writing more about ICE’s, um, “leadership” under the Obama/Napolitano regime in the near future (stay tuned).

Schoch is 39 or 40 according to differing accounts.  His rise in ICE with little concrete investigative experience was meteoric and rife with cronyism, NOT law enforcement experience.  Back in 2004, under the Bush Administration, he was briefly Deputy Assistant Director of ICE.  He comes from the former INS.  The same goes for his Deputy, the inexperienced Ms. Silliman, his close friend.

To make matters worse, Agent Schoch’s acting replacement, Kevin Kozak, is another senior manager who not only skipped any practical experience, but he has a history of EEO gender discrimination cases–some of which were proven, sustained by the Equal Employment Opportunities Commission, and settled, with the government paying your tax money (a lot of it) to at least one woman.  He’s no David Letterman, and the cases do not involve any sexual malfeasance, but male v. female promotion and disciplinary decisions (which in many cases in ICE, seem to now discriminate against men in favor of unqualified women).

While I have no idea of Mr. Schoch’s innocence or guilt and have been unable to reach him for comment, you have to ask yourself how this guy could be considered to be the nation’s top investigator in immigration and customs fraud cases.  He doesn’t have the experience.  And now, he’s suspected of something criminal.

The investigation might be prompted by a politically motivated personal grudge by a rival faction within ICE or the competition for the job he was slated to get.  But I doubt it.  Most ICE Special Agents in Charge–like Michigan/Ohio top ICE cop Brian Moskowitz–get away with doing everything but murder.  And they don’t go after them . . . unless it’s very, very serious.

We shall see.  Stay tuned.

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253 Responses

The Los Angeles Times has gotten hold of the story and will be reporting it soon, from what I have heard. Watch out, SAC/LA, you’re about to be in the eye of the hurricane. One former ASAC will be indicted and that means more will fall, both on criminal charges for some and administrative charges for others. OPR is a joke, it will be OIG doing the heavy lifting. The only thing that’s heavy lifting with OPR in SAC/LA is their butts off their chairs. Some of them are getting to be wide load, if you know what I mean. One agent in particular. That agent needs to get bigger size pants.

fedupinlaandwantstoleave on October 20, 2009 at 6:21 pm

I heard about this and searched online to see if it was true and that’s what led me here. I knew Jennifer Silliman a couple of years ago and I just am floored by this news. I just don’t understand how someone in law enforcement could ever consider doing something illegal that could land them in jail. She’s a young mother, like me! How could she do that to her family! Well, I hope it’s not true, but I’m not too optimistic about that.

ICE is a joke. The problem from the get-go is that after 9-11 DHS was formed because Immigration needed to be disbanned since they were so screwed up. So what do the intelligent powers that be do? They combine US Customs and US Immigration and then go and put all the idiot Immigration supervisors in the top spots! How does that make sense! Immigration agents hate working Customs cases and Customs agents hate working Immigration cases – morale is beyond bad. The Gov’t never seems to do anything that makes sense – I think that must be their goal! US Customs was a great agency; it really too bad it’s gone.

Lily on October 20, 2009 at 9:54 pm

    No one ever grew up be a Immigration Special Agent. Nor, ICE for what it’s worth.

    Old School. on October 20, 2009 at 11:04 pm

    A Deputy AUSA once told me don’t you think ICE sounds like something that would melt.

    Old School. on October 20, 2009 at 11:21 pm

    Lily, are you on hallucinogens? There is almost nobody from the old INS still in ICE. The management is 99% former Customs agents. There were bad managers in both former agencies. Any problems now are all on ICE, not INS or USCS. At t]least this manager apparently cheater on vouchers (I don’t condone in the least) – but he didn’d get caught exposing himself to girls in a mall liek a former USCS ASAC did. That case was swept away by the powers that be.

    Mike Johnston (yes, my real name) on October 27, 2009 at 5:43 pm

Actually, in my AOR (as well as most of the SAC offices and the top spots in HQ), it is the idiot Customs supervisors in all the top spots. There a few low level idiot Immigration supervisors, but the top spots are all blue, blue, blue.

Of course, none of them have been tossed from the office and face indictment. Maybe the idiot Customs supes here aren’t as motivated as the idiot Immigration supes in SAC LA.

SouthernICE1811 on October 20, 2009 at 11:40 pm

What is a Deputy AUSA? Is it an assistant to the Asisstant United States Attorney? Was this person a permanent Deputy like Barney, or just a temp Deputy like Gomer on occasion?

Nobody grew up intending to be a moron, but some achieve it anyway. Then they insist on posting on message boards and the like to prove it. Old Fool.

SouthernICE1811 on October 20, 2009 at 11:47 pm


    Thanks, you just said it all. Some day (sic) I hope you can make it.

    Old School

    Old School. on October 24, 2009 at 12:30 am

ICE Manager,

Promotion? is it really? when you are offered a 14 slot in DC from say a 13 in Houston? Where is the promotion in that? Monetary it is not. Sure, I understand you gotta make the HQ tour, and it makes sense, but not when your house will no longer be purchased by the governemnt and in todays market, most of us would lose a ton trying to sell what we have and then trying to find a decent place to live with a family anywhere near HQ. Then it is at least 1hr commute each way let alone what the price of a decent home goes for near D.C.

So lets see……whats my motivation to accept a spot in DC? Financial hardship? Getting to see my family 1hr a day if I’m lucky? Next I’ll hear the, well you gotta pay your dues at HQ and if you are not willing to make the sacrifice then to bad…etc….The point is there a lot of agents that would make great supervisors but there is no truly viable career path laid out. The way it is right now, to climb the promotional ladder all you need to do is go to HQ, it doesn’t matter what your experience is, what your work ethic is like, what you have accomplished in the field, how many cases you have made, you can be the village idiot a few years in, go to D.C., pretend like you do something, make the necessary contacts and eventually get promoted to a DSAC or SAC, hence we have the issues and embarassments we currently have.

I would be nice though if more ICE managers like yourself exsisted, you seem to actually care and maybe even be qualified to hold your position.

The Truth!

Ground Pounder on October 21, 2009 at 3:52 pm

I agree with “Ground Pounder”. I am currently at HQ and took a financial bath to do so. I came from a no income tax state to a state (VA) that taxes everything to death, so, even as a 14, I’m not making much mor than when I was a 13 – that, plus the fact that I am renting my house at a loss has created a real financial hardship that I will not emerge from until I get my 2009 tax refund and am able to sell my house and recoup some of my debt.

Well, why did I come to DC? Mainly because I wasn’t going to be picked up as a GS in my local SAC office (too much politics at play), and I am already in my early 40’s; I would like to try to work hard and make a difference here in D.C. before it’s too late. That said, while I don’t think promotions should be handed out to people like water (and I know they are), I think that I and others who made the sacrifice to come to HQ and who work hard and show competence should be afforded the opportunity to compete for a 15 here at HQ, with at least “save pay” back out to the field and for our houses in MD/VA to be purchased as part of a GHS program so we can gain our 1st level GS experience in a field setting before further advancement.

Problem is that, with no $$$, how is ICE going to accomplish this? Are they going to start forcing field 14’s to HQ for a 2-3 year tour? Will I get my choice of duty location after I busted myself for 3 years here, 12 hours a day 5 days a week? How is ICE going to pay for moves in and out of HQ? I don’t have any answers to these questions, at least not easy answers, anyway … Maybe someone can help me here?

Still Shaking My Head on October 21, 2009 at 5:32 pm

The agency should be chosing the strongest GSs possible, who can do/learn all of the different tasks involved — law enforcment and admin. But you’re not going to get the highest quality GSs if the only set of agents that’s even looked at for promotion is the group willing to make the HQ move. I posit there’s a high correlation between that willingness to move to DC and later being found unfit for duty.

Still Working Everyday on October 21, 2009 at 10:23 pm

Lily, shut up about the ins bashing. customs was just as screwed up. the new sac from san d in la has been investigated for stuff too.

fedupinlaandwantrstoleave on October 22, 2009 at 1:27 am

    Like what? Maybe he is just like you? No?

    Old School. on October 24, 2009 at 12:18 am

Listen to you old Leagcy bittermen! Stabbing each other in the back, while glorifying the “good old days” that never existed. On behalf of everyone in ICE under the age of 40: Shut up and do your job.

The great news is, within a few short years, YOU’LL ALL BE GONE, and we won’t have to listen to this crap anymore.

Time is on my side, yes it is . . .

ICE Baby on October 22, 2009 at 2:34 am

To “Still Working Everyday” …

I read your post and smiled. I’ve heard the arguments before that you are making, and I’d like to respond …

I’d like to think that perfection would reign here and that we’d have a coherent promotion policy that ensures the best people get selected for GS slots, and that those people will move on to HQ and then back out to the field as higher-level managers. Unfortunately, that’s not the way it is now, and did nothing to help me when I had to decide whether to remain a 13 or move up in rank – the decision was made for me: I was NOT going to get promoted at my prior SAC office (again, as previously noted, due to politics and/or favoritism), so, it was either make the move to D.C. or stay put and probably be a 13 for the remainder of my career.

The decision was not easy: After almost 20 years of Federal service, most of it as a legacy Customs Inspector and Special Agent in one geographical area I, along with my wife, decided to move out of our “comfort zone” so I could advance in my career. We uprooted my younger son from the middle of his school year, left another behind as a new college student and left my recently widowed father-in-law (along with my wife giving up a decent paying job), all for not that much more money, but a heck of a lot more aggravation and stress on family life – I get up at 5:15 every morning, am at HQ by 7:30 and don’t leave until 6:30 at night, getting home at 7:30; not a great QOL, is it? I don’t see too many other people running to fill cubicles here, which brings me to my next point …

I am a firm believer in the maxim: “To the victor goes the spoils”, that meaning for those of us made the sacrifice and gave up much to come here to HQ, we should be given the opportunity, if we work hard and demonstrate competence,to be given at least a fair shot, if not preference, in getting our 15’s. I’m not saying that promotions should be doled out like candy but, sadly, they have been in the past, and I am left to wonder if a 30-something with 6 or 7 years on the job can get a 15 or SES, why can’t I in my early 40’s with almost 20 years on the job? Finally, I am concerned and take issue with your comment that there is a correllation between being willing to move to DC, then being later found unfit for duty – that is one of the most flippant statements I think one can make, and one that has no empirical basis in fact.

And, to “Ice Baby”, yes, you and others under 40 will be the future of this agency. Sadly, those of us who could teach you a thing or two about “the ropes” are bleeding out rapidly, and I lament not having more seasoned agents above me to look to for advise and counsel in what are now my management years; furthermore, I also sadly suspect that your tenure as a senior ICE agent will be marked more by administrative cases than criminal cases, and I see that job getting boring very fast. Finally, again, you should think before you speak -I am in my early forties, but did not have 6(c) coverage until I got the job as a legacy Customs agent at age 36-1/2; that means I don’t have a “few short years” to go (I wish !!!); no, I have until December 31, 2022 until I retire and that, my friend, is a LONG time.

Still Shaking My Head on October 22, 2009 at 8:55 am

To Still Shaking My Head :
Let me get this correct-You volunteer to go to HQ to you get your 14. Now you want to get your 15 or a SES with no first line supervision.
Yes. you work long hours but I imagine you knew that BEFORE you left the field. We in the field work plenty of hours, get call outs and pull duty that cause us to respond to the field.
By choice I stayed many years a 13, with a car and no disruption to my family. When I did receive my GS14 my pay increase was minimal. I have realized that after 24 years in the field I still did not all the admin responsibilities a G/S has. I also have to make field decisions during enforcement actions.
In summary, your HQ time does NOT prepare you to be a 2nd line supervisor.When you leave HQ get some 1st line experience and then reflect this- that your long hours of “clerk work” in HQ does not make you a viable candidate for an ASAC or above!

managerofone on October 22, 2009 at 6:20 pm

Dear “Manager of One”

I respect your position, but beg to differ in some respects. The current policy as is being contemplated at HQ for career advancement would also exclude Section Chiefs and Assitant Attaches, both 1st line supes by definition (they do send them to Supe school, you know, because they manage BOTH people and processes). Are you saying that you are any less of a supe because you managed people and proceesses here versus there? I can also make the argument that I can “punch my ticket” after my HQ tour and do one year as a field supe in a BS RAC office doing the bare minimum and be qualified for a 15. I also take issue with field 14s who became field 15s without so much as a TDY to HQ. If memory serves me correctly, as current policy states, you’re NOT supposed to be promoted to a 15 UNLESS you have BOTH 1st line supe experience AND a 3 year HQ tour under your belt – I can give you MANY examples where that rule dis NOT apply.

Sorry, but NO DICE-If a 30 year old with 7 years of experience can get a 15, then I think I should be able to compete for a 15 at age 43 with 20 years of experience. And, while I think HQ tours ought to me mandatory, I realize that, under the current economic situation, that is unlikely to happen, where HQ will force 14s to HQ.

BTW, interesting to note the following personnel changes today at HQ:

Kumar Kibble to SAC-Denver

John Torres to SAC-DC

Jim Dinkins to Director, OI

Janice Ayala to Asst Director, Investigative Programs.

Note 3 of the 4 (Mr. Kibble excepted) are all local commuting area – no need to pay for anyone’s move to fill slots. Does that mean they selected the best candidates to fill these positions? Who knows? I hope they did, but I think the decision is as much economically expedient as anything else.

Still Shaking My Head on October 22, 2009 at 8:31 pm

We should be envious of the Denver folks, huh.

Still Working Everyday on October 22, 2009 at 10:06 pm

Still Shaking My Head,
Correct me if I have this wrong but what I see is a person who has spend 3.5 years as a Criminal Investigator and you volunteered to go to HQ as a GS-14. Now you are complaining that you got yourself into a situation you don’t like.

SO the remedy for this is for someone in HQ to give you a GS-15 or SES and move you to the garden spot of your choice, as long as it isn’t some “BS” office, when you are not even qualified to be a GS-9 Criminal Investigator.

All the years you spent as a Customs Inspector is good background experience, but it is not qualifying experience for a GS-13 let alone a management job, first line or otherwise as an Agent.

This is the problem with ICE, and legacy Customs, they have thrown the baby out with the bath water and have way too many inexperienced, unqualified people in management positions.

I don’t mean to attack you personally but what you and 75% of the rest of management in HQ and the field need to do is go to one of those BS RAC offices, as you described, and simply spend some years working some cases, big and small, and get the necessary experience to be a competent agent. After that is accomplished apply for management.

Shaking My Head Too on October 23, 2009 at 11:29 pm

Man, you guys are bitter. Just work hard and put some criminals in jail, and you will be rewarded. I am a legacy INS agent in LA and love working here.

LA boy on October 24, 2009 at 4:30 am

To “Manager of One”

Wrong … I was an agent for 7 years in a major office before coming to HQ – assigned to Narcotics (2 years), JTTF (2 years) and Financial (3 years) and worked over 60 complex cases before going to HQ (pretty good experience, you think?)

To “LA Boy””

Not bitter, my friend … I work harder than you (14 hours a day, every day) supporting your work from the firebrand that is DC and HQ. BTW … Can’t wait until DC sends a review team to shake down LA in wake of the Schoch/Silliman affair – it’s going to get real dicey, real fast: Better make sure your case files, CI files and anything to do with UC funds is in order, because cases or no, THAT is what HQ worries about – accountability – something we have to ensure happens when we get called on by Congress (which is right up the street, not 3000 miles away) to answer for.

That said, I respect both of you and hope I ca support you in your efforts. But you will not convince me otherwise that I am not deserving of the chance to apply for and be given a preference for a 15. If you mae the sacrifices I have and have served the time I have, you’d feel the same, too, and you’d be lying if you say you wouldn’t.

Still Shaking My Head on October 24, 2009 at 11:39 am

Correction to last post:

1st paragraph should have benn addressed to “Shaking my Head Too”

Still Shaking My Head on October 24, 2009 at 2:09 pm

Still Shaking My Head,

If going to HQ and supporting the field for 3 or 4 years qualifies you as a 15 for a plum duty location, why shouldn’t everybody who goes to HQ come out as a 15 at a plum duty station? Shouldn’t everybody who made the sacrifice get that, or is there something about you that is more special than the other folks in the same position? The sense of entitlement is scary. Your sacrifice got you a 14. Go be a good boss in the field for a few years, then maybe you’ll be ready to be a 15 or higher.

The thing is, spending a few years in HQ (while no doubt a sacrifice) doesn’t qualify someone to be a ASAC or even a GS. 7 years of case work, no matter how stellar, doesn’t qualify someone to be an ASAC or a even a GS. Some combination of the two might make an agent eligible to be a GS, but it doesn’t qualify them to be one. This agency is full of folks in management who have done the above things and are sorry managers.

The bad news is that as bad as ICE is screwed up now, it is going to get worse real soon. There are many, many 6 and 7 (or even less) year wonders in DC who are going to be dumping back to the field in the next couple of years. They are going to fill ASAC, RAC, and GS slots in big and small offices all over the country. And while some may turn out to be stellar supes, most are just not seasoned enough to deal with being boss and aren’t knowledgeable enough to guide cases. It is gonna be ugly, ugly, ugly…

SouthernICE1811 on October 24, 2009 at 5:20 pm

Southern Ice 1811

I NEVER said that anyone should get a PLUM duty station as a 15; if you are refering to my earlier comments about getting GS experience, I guess any of us could go to a BS RAC office as a field GS and “punch our ticket” enroute to a 15, if HQ’s policy under consideration is that myopic.

You say my sense of entitlement is scary, but also scary is the fact that there are many people who got promoted in the field to a 14 and are too comfortablw where they’re at to volunteer for an HQ tour. Furthermore, what is scary AND insulting is when a field 14 gets promoted to a field 15 (ASAC/DSAC) and has never so much done a BS, 90 TDY to HQ (YES, I have seen that, and it’s AGAINST policy) – then, they b**ch when they get the “RRR” letter to HQ. Sorry -if it’s good for the goose, it’s good for the gander.

You want scary? Here goes. HQ has already stated, albeit unofficially, that, if a SAC wants to promote a field agent to a 14 and there is someone at HQ who wants to go back to that office as a 14 field GS, HQ is “going to win every time” (quote from senior management at HQ) – well, there goes someone’s GS slot … Furthermore, HQ honors, within reason, office of prefernce letters for HQ staff rotating out, which means this: If I am rotating out, and let’s say I want to go to, hmmmm … 1. Ft. Lauderdale, 2. West Palm Beach and 3. Miami, and they have no open slots, well, guess what? It’s called the “RRR” letter to some poor slob at one of those offices who has never done an HQ tour. And, frankly, if that’s your feeling that I should do a field GS tour before getting a 15, then I have NO sympathy when HQ forces someone out to HQ from the field to accomodate me after I did my wretched time here.

So, before you complain, be careful what you wish for – my return to the field might screw you out of your promotion or, if you’re already a 14, force yur happy, never-done-an-HQ tour, behind right up to 3 wretched years of freezing your butt off on the Metro, no G-ride, high real estate and taxes and 14 hour days.

Again, I have no sympathy for you all – lead, follow or get out the way. There are PLENTY of empty cubicles at the PCN …

Still Shaking My Head on October 24, 2009 at 7:38 pm

Follow-up to my last post ..

There are 400 14’s here at HQ who have never done a field GS tour. If HQ enforces the contemplated policy, then you have 400 agents who are going to have to be placed in the field as a 14 GS. I reckon that it may be a long time before any field 13’s get promoted to field 14’s, andI also reckon thate is going to be a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth when field 14’s get the force leter to accomodte those of us coming out.

Again, NO sympathy from the HQ brother/sister hood.

Still Shaking My Head on October 24, 2009 at 7:42 pm

“Wrong … I was an agent for 7 years in a major office before coming to HQ – assigned to Narcotics (2 years), JTTF (2 years) and Financial (3 years) and worked over 60 complex cases before going to HQ (pretty good experience, you think?)”

I’ll bet that “major office was glad to see you go!

Nope, I do not think you are qualified. The above paragraph screams of task force cases of which everyone claims the stats. Not impressive in the least bit.

The only reason you are at HQ is that people of substance do not want the hassle of putting up with people like the former Director of Investigatons (MF).

The worst thing about all of your comments is you reek of an extremely arrogant attitude. Typical HQ. You guys get in the way of the field more than you help. Do your self a favor and loose the attitude move your family to a good environment and forget the ladder climbing BS. After your career is over no one will care who filled what slot etc.

Shaking My Head Too on October 24, 2009 at 8:54 pm

I stand by my comments and make no apologies.

My prior office will welcome me back if I wanted to return – the SAC and every ASAC has said so.

Your comments regarding substance are unwarranted – you know nothing of me or of my work. Marcy is gone. Jim Dinkins is coming in from DC and Janice Ayala is taking one of the deputy slots; Al Pena has the other – 3 good people, so that BS doesn’t fly anymore. People don’t want the hassle not of MF, but of having to uproot their lives – they want it easy; no sacrifice.

We get in the way because we are on the front lines regarding the politicians who reside right down the street and breathe down our necks EVERY day. I don’t want credit for your freakin stats – they are yours; you did the work, But respect the fact that we here at HQ have to put controls in place that you see as getting in the way because sometimes field staff do stupid things that we have to answer for. I can’t tell you how much aspirin has been consumed ancd martinis downed dealing with the Schoch/Silliman BS unfolding in LA, and it’s only goingto get worse.

No attitude here, my man – I just want what I feel I deserve: A chance to advance and make a difference. And, don’t worry about my family – they are very proud of me and what I do, and support me all the way, and that’s all that matters.

Still Shaking My Head on October 24, 2009 at 9:07 pm

Hmm, my own complex cases, which do result in criminal prosecutions, take about 3-4 years each. Some months I can do significant investigative work on say 2 or 3 of them, some months, like when I’m writing affidavits, I may only work on one. My LEA time includes some Saturday and Sunday every month so don’t think I’m just not putting in the time, complex cases are a lot of work! And, I keep getting significant cash awards and time off awards, so I must be on par with other at least decent agents.

Still Shaking My Head: You couldn’t have done 60 complex cases in you short time as an 1811. Not possible, can’t get the ROIs done…I’m not suggesting you don’t know what a complex case is…but maybe someone in your office didn’t explain the difference between what you were doing and what the rest of us do.

Here’s my real rub with the 14 promotions to HQ. We need good GSs who know/remember the steps agents need to take to do an investigation. Three years in HQ doing admin work doesn’t help our GS 5/7/9s get on track when you get that cushy rotation to the field. It would make a lot more sense to require the 3 years in the field 1st and then the mandatory move to HQ if you want a 15. We have a serious agent brain drain with the system the way it is and for some reason we only get 14s out of HQ who scored an 83 on the assessment and they’re like you and think the’ve earned the right to a 15 and spend their time trolling usajobs. The few local promotions we’ve had have worked out fairly well — only 2 in the past 3 years for out whole AOR. At least they know the job and had 95+ scores to justify their selections.

Still Working Everyday on October 24, 2009 at 10:49 pm

ICE SA’s, get back to the point, the problem at SAC/LA. Is it true that “JS” got indicted and fired?
Be concern with the possibility that other FED’s do not want to work cases with ICE, noticed the gang sweep at LA?

hank on October 24, 2009 at 11:41 pm


    Half of the ICE agents don’t want to work cases with the other half of ICE agents. When we fix that, maybe we can start worrying about whether other agencies want to work with us.

    SouthernICE1811 on October 25, 2009 at 12:09 am

Still Shaking My Head,

You got me all wrong. I’m not a 14, don’t want to be a 14, and don’t want to supervise anybody anywhere. I suppose I might get a move letter to HQ, but it will be as a 13 unless they force me to promote to a 14 at the same time. At the first available opportunity, I would bust back to a 13 in the field.

I agree with you about the 14s in the field who have never been to HQ and get a 15. I don’t think an HQ tour qualifies you to be a 15, but it is the stated policy and it should be enforced. I also don’t think you should have to go to HQ to get a 14, but since it is the stated policy, it should be enforced. If you get a 14 or 15 slot without going to HQ, you should be at the top of the list for the next rotation to HQ. If they don’t want that to be the policy, all they have to do is change it.

When you make a policy and then deviate from it on what appear to be whims, it calls all policy into question. Maybe it is that kind of thing that leads to the issues in LA. Rules and policy are generally there for a reason. When they become optional, bad things tend to happen. If the policies and rules are outdated or aren’t working, change them.

By the way, I have no personal thing about you and your abilities as a 14 or 15 field supervisor. You might be a good one or you might not, but I think spending time in HQ has very little to do with it. The same way that being a great case agent and doing big cases has very little to do with someone being a good 14 or 15. I respect and appreciate those who do good cases, I respect and appreciate those who go to HQ (even though I do question their sanity), and I respect and appreciate those who don’t do the big cases but always step in to assist others with surveillance, evidence/alien processing, and all the other thousands of things that have to be done so the case agent can make a good case. I’ve seen good and bad supervisors from each of those categories, and I’m hoping you are one of the good ones when you get back out in the field.

SouthernICE1811 on October 25, 2009 at 12:07 am

Lots of complaining going on at ICE, if you can get out, go to another agency, one with a better reputation, and a better name. Face it, things are not going to get better anytime soon; it’s been bad since 2003.

JIM on October 25, 2009 at 12:52 am

Rumor is indicted has been handed down, LA Times waiting to report the story. More to come…… But since JS has been on job for a while, one can assume continue to be on paid leave until charges see their way through. Inditcment wont be enough to be fired..

CoolasICE on October 25, 2009 at 1:22 am

Its ashame they dont reopen the case into that DSAC in NY who ran JFK. Plenty of info there to warrant a criminal indictment. Thats ripe now since a certain family member is no longer there to protect…

CoolasICE on October 25, 2009 at 1:23 am

How many of the SAC LA ASACs and GSes will get taken down by this investigation of Bobby and Jenny? Funny how they all lasted without getting pulled to HQ like they hsould have been since they are 14s. Hmmm makes one want to think. LAX? OC? Ventura? San Berdoo? We shall see. Come on, LA Times! Get investigating! The new SAC LA has web entries for getting stopped by the police in DC. What up with that?

fedupinlaandwantrstoleave on October 25, 2009 at 1:35 am

Yeah, lets stay on point here. Who else is going down in LA?? Frank, KK, the FIG intel tools?? By the way, I don’t think Schoch and Silliman did anything. Too smart.

LA boy on October 25, 2009 at 8:45 am

There are more dirt if one looks probably. Lots of 14 and 15s. Don’t know if they are tied in with the investigating, but I am sure that LR, KK, SL, ST, AZ, JG, DR, TC, et al will get the hard look by OIG and USAO. Not OPR.OPR was compromised once Customs IA brought in their rules and rotation policy. How can OPR be good investigators if they have to investigate the same people they will work under when they have to get rotated back? You think OPR ASAC will investigate his wife who is a GS in OI for LA? You think OPR’s RAC will investigate KK or JG, his good buds in OI? Hell no, they won’t. I am not saying they are dirty, but this just shows how screwed the whole system is and why no one has called them on it is beyond me. God this sac office is getting embarasing. I was on TDY a week ago and was asked if my office is getting raided every day. this is so sleazy and embarassing.

LAboyandunhappy on October 25, 2009 at 3:55 pm

Ive always said the grass isnt always greener on the other side….all agencies have their problems but they do a good job of keeping it in house and outsiders only learn about it when they have close partners or family members in those agencies.
DHS was an abomination, the Bureau and ATF cant get along… Im glad ATF is standing strong on protecting their turf!
As far as L.A. is concerned, JG, AZ, TC and LR are certainly concerned as to where this investigation might go, some more than others.
As to other agencies wanting to work with ICE because of this scandal, ICE has so many authorities that it really doesnt need to work with other FEDS. STL is different and the relationship is and has always been mutually beneficial.

KarateMens on October 25, 2009 at 5:30 pm


Remember this will work it self out either way. A federal law enforcement agency is no place for politcians or people “what ever” that would get any agent into harms way. This list includes: bullies, management and you that discriminate by age, minotity, sex, level of experience, body type or what any profane thing they can thing of right now. You had to think about that one?

All this happened because you did not understand the U.S. Constituation. Maybe you should take the oath again. H.Q. is as always for the agents that can’t make it the field. Send them to some real place to work like Texas or Azizona as a investigatior. So they can also lean how to become human. First.

IA/OPR should only be a place for people that deserve the right or chance to get there. The 14 in OPR thing was not only illegal but most of all just wrong. OPR did not become a closed shop until you all let it happen.

When blogging don’t talk using initials just use real names so DOJ dosen’t need a Garmin to fiture things out.

Old School

Old School. on October 25, 2009 at 8:04 pm

Hey Old School …

Looks like someone needs a nice refreshing HQ tour … I’ll introduce you to myself and those of us who you say “can’t make it in the field”.

Correction, we are up here touting your successes when warranted, fighting off other Federal agencies from totally evicerating us and covering your behinds when y’all screw up – you’re not the one headed up to Capitol Hill to answer some Senator’s/Congressperson’s questions via their snotnose 21 year old staffer who seems to think they have more power than G-d because of who they work for – WE ARE. Again, per my previous posts: 2 years legacy INS Inspector at a major POE, 12 years legacy Customs Inspector at a major POE and 7 years CI experience at a major office, not some BS RAC office in the middle of nowhere. Besides that, I am 43 years old, so I think the mix of age and experience (along with my work record) speaks for itself – I’m not some 39 year old like Schoch who got an SES with barely G-d knows how many years of Federal service COMBINED (???).

Believe you me, someone stated in an earlier post that he/she questions my sanity in coming up here, but who else is going to do it – YOU? Tell me, Daddy (since you call me and others here “kids”), are you going to uproot your life and stand the watch? If not, don’t complain. If you want to get off the Southern Border, I respect that – you’ve done your time. Honestly, I think they ought to pay for transfers off the SB for those who busted their behind there, but I don’t see that happening, unfortunately, due to budgets. If you are interested, and you can swing it, the Self-Funded Lateral announcement just came out last week – try to take advantage of it; I’ll support you if I can.

But don’t denigrate and insult us who answered the call to service by voluntarily coming up to HQ – I didn’t have to come, and I lost a lot to do so. But, I feel I didn’t have the right to continue complaining about how so many 30-somethings with 5 years total Federal times were getting 14’s and higher if I wasn’t going to take the plunge myself.

Still Shaking My Head on October 25, 2009 at 8:23 pm

“My prior office will welcome me back if I wanted to return – the SAC and every ASAC has said so.”

Maybe you should check with the people who matter – the little people who worked with you or tolerated you. I’ll bet you get a diffrent story.

I agree with Still Working Everyday, as one who has worked and observed real agents working complex cases. Your stats may be impressive to you and the empty suits who promoted you, but they are not to those of us who make up the majority of agents in the field. So roll-on cowboy keep telling yourself you are great. I’ll bet you hear an echo, of yourself.

Don’t kid yourself about Schoch and company in LA. Nothing of substance will happen to them. The lowest person on the pole will be fired, maybe, the rest will be buried back there at HQ, maybe in the cube next to you. Just look at how HQ protected Figaroa in Tampa, truly disgraceful.

Still Shaking My Head Too 2 on October 25, 2009 at 9:07 pm

Still Shaking My Head 2X

No problems at my prior office with large majority of my colleagues. Yes, there will ALWAYS be people who you won’t get along with, but that’s the human condition, no? No fear, my friend – my conscience is clean and my heart is peaceful …

Regarding LA, Schoch and Silliman, even if they don’t get indicted or fired, will have miserable existences for a VERY long time – word is that the “misappropriation”, if not embezzlement was in the amount of $ 1.3 million – NOT chump change. How are they going to answer for that? I’m not sure Dinkins as an incoming Director is going to want that cloud over his head – they just may make him and her the 1st of many examples of the new way of doing business.

Yes, I agree, Figgy should have been fired – I was shocked by his conduct and dishertened by the response; should have been stronger, bar none.

As for your empty suit comment, sounds like sour grapes my friend – you don’t want to give up the G-ride, the 20 minute commute to the office, the nice weather, the great COL or no taxes where you are, yada, yada, yada for the promotion. Seems like a shame – we could use more of you “gung-ho” types up here to shore up national programs/ops but, alas, you are happy and comfortable where you are at. No worries, I respect that – just don’t trash us who made the sacrifice to try and make HQ and the agency a better place (does anyone see a recurring theme in my comments, here???)

Good night – 5:15 for the 1 hour commute and the 14 hour work day comes soon enough … Be safe !!!

Still Shaking My Head on October 25, 2009 at 9:24 pm

Peppermint Patty protected Franki the fig for playing with his fig in an orlando area shopping mall. Peppermint patty should be investigated by OIG for that. ICE OPR should be absorbed by DHS OIG> too much influence from ICE OI..

Frankiethe fig on October 25, 2009 at 11:43 pm

Whoah nellie, what’s this about LR that you mention,KarateMens? LR is the master of fake doc seizure, isn’t he? Millions of cards seized in that one case that made his career and since then he did NOTHING except golf with Schiltgen and then Bobby? oh, and also golfed with Frank. So, what has he done that makes him worried? LR did absolutely nothing in national security, so why is seen as a savior to LAX? What inside baseball 411 do you have , KarateMens?

fedupinlaandwantstoleave on October 26, 2009 at 2:32 pm

Man, I don’t know what’s wrong you guys. All this complaining about supervisors and ASACs and SACS and directors. Who gives a f*ck who’s in charge. As long as the guy cranking out the paychecks is halfway competant, it’s all good. If your supervisor is f*cked up or retarded, that just makes it better for you.

All you have to do in this agency to get by is stay one step ahead of the most f*cked up guy in your office. When they’re more worried about agents losing guns, duecing their G-Rides, and “working from home” they won’t be looking for you, asleep in the cube!

Remember, these are good times. With the microscope on other people, there’s less of a spotlight on those who just wanna cruise. Now’s the time to relax, kickback, and work a little less. F*ckin’ base liberty!

All you guys with your: I work 14 hour days and weekends and I have 100 complex cases and I’m such a kick ass agent. If that’s you, you’re a f*cking fool. All you’re doing is working yourself to death for no reason, time away from your spouse and kids and enjoying the things you like to do. But I guess it’s a good thing you work so hard, so I don’t have to.

This is the greatest job in the world. We get paid over a 100,00 with a free car and the work’s not hard, it’s realitively easy. You shouldn’t be complaining about the idiots in charge, let them stay. The more efficient/better they try to make this agency, the more they f*ck it up and the less we have to work.

And when all this stuff with BS and JS pans out, and if they’re able to come back as agents, well, there’s a place for them. It’s called the Dumping Ground. All turds are welcome here. It was founded on the bedrock of INS legacy agents who were (are) the epitome of retarded, intoxicated, and incompetant. Lazy too. But every one of them could process an alien when it came down to it.

Aloha, Mr. Hand

MoneyForNothing on October 26, 2009 at 3:55 pm

Okay, I admit it MoneyForNothing, I like EARNING the taxpayers’ money. You work in my office, don’t you?

As for legacy agency specific whining, forget it. Same people are still pulling the load and we worker bees get along, regardless of where we started. No putrid code of green or code of blue, and glad to leave that all behind.

BTW, there is no DHS OIG involvement when it comes to ICE internal investigations. They all get delegated to ICE OPR. Try the system, send a complaint to DHS OIG and watch your allegation get assigned to the same OPR office where the spouse of the dirty agent your reported works.

Still Working Everyday on October 26, 2009 at 10:01 pm

i bet js will come back with a promotion….as the new SAC LA

laughing on October 26, 2009 at 10:19 pm

Does anyone know if anyone has been indicted yet on this? Then shut up. I always knew of Jenn and Bob to be upstanding people and good street agents. Better than the ASAC at LAX, that’s for damn sure. I think they are both innocent of all allegations and will be cleared. and then they will return to their old jobs and continue toget stuff done.

LAboyandunhappy on October 26, 2009 at 10:41 pm


    Grow up are you real in about ten years or less you will see this happen again. It’s not nice to see this in law enforcement. Think about your own self be a man or a woman. Work hard and put this behind you. Stand up in law enforcement. Means dirty. Sorry.

    Old School

    Old School. on October 26, 2009 at 11:46 pm

In my career I’ve seen so many like Money For Nothing. At least he (or she) is honest. There is a place for that agent in a surveillance group or taking inventory in the basement. Too bad he will never know the thrill of making a good case.

Look at your career as 25 years of coming to the office in excahnge for an eventual pension. During that time you can hide from work and always be afraid that somebody will ask “what are you working on right now?”.

Or you can get out and make some cases because a) it makes the time go by faster, and b) that is what Joe Sixpack is paying you the big bucks to do.

Cool Blue on October 27, 2009 at 12:58 am

Well Cool Blue, why don’t you tell us about your biggest case and your highest award. I bet I got you beat, and working on beating you now. Not that I want a complex case (or anymore awards), but I do what I’m told. Even though I’d rather come to work and just cruise.

Now I don’t know where you work, but we don’t have a p*ssy surveillance group in my office (not big enough). Each group does their own surveillance (with help from others), and we sure as hell don’t have any basement here.

How can agents expect to get anything done when they have to complete about six different reports and send them to everyone from the G/S to the Director of OI everytime an agent wants to leave the office. Come on! Tell me we’re not micromanaged.

Don’t get me wrong, I love my job. But Cool Blue, you can’t honestly tell me you want to come to work and bust your ass everyday. Unless you’re young and don’t have a family, then I guess I can understand it. But if I’m given a choice between hanging out with my kids or working, well I’ll take my kids everytime!

The way I see it, you’re paid to do what you’re told to the best of your ability. Or, do just a little bit more than the biggest f*ckup in your office.

MoneyForNothing on October 27, 2009 at 1:08 pm

I think the truth falls somewhere between cool Blue and Money for Nothing. We are definately micromanaged from the “Q”, SIRs, SPEARs, all the CI paper work and bosses who are afraid and want to get 151s done after a warrant at 2 am… We spend way too much time in the office and not enough on the streets. We should be more like STL LEOs. Notifications and reports are needed but to what extent and time constraint? even in the legacy Customs days, we did’nt have this much nonsense. This is all off the topic, which one of you connected insiders knows who is gonna be the nxt SAC LA?

Billy Ballentine on October 27, 2009 at 4:56 pm

Boy’s and Girl’s

Four of them count them (4) DEA agents died in Afganistan (sic) on a drug mission. Right now who in the world cares about what you think.

Please take all of your enery for what it’s worth. Please, use against real criminals and not the people who you have the honor to serve with.

Old School

Old School. on October 27, 2009 at 6:54 pm

Old School,

STFU! You are en effing moron, we all care about what we think that’s why we are on this blog, if you don’t like it then go to a DEA blog. Four of them count them (4)!?!?!? How in the hell are we going to count them? Are we on the ground? Are you on the ground? Ya maybe you’re on the ground in your studio apartment passed out drunk after reading your stupid ass comments on this site! Get an effing life you effing mope!

Mr. McCockiner on October 28, 2009 at 10:13 pm

Old School, Ur reading and contributing on this cartoon blog just like the rest of us…As far as our DEA colleagues, may they rest in peace and God bless their families. BUT, we pick our poison and its no different than when we volunteer to work in Mexico or Colombia or when we do UC work or go number one thru a door. This is what we’ve chosen and we know the risks and we get danger pay to do it. Its no more tragic than when a GI dies in theatre. Get with it.

Johnnie Quest on October 30, 2009 at 12:03 am

Guys. Lets get back to the subject of SAC/LA. Are Schoch and Silliman back to work?? What are the new rumors on why they were suspended?

la boy on October 30, 2009 at 8:44 am

I heard both are TDY until?

joe on October 31, 2009 at 12:11 am

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