March 14, 2013, - 1:16 pm

New Pope “Friend of Argentina’s Muslims,” Didn’t Stem Tide of S America’s Largest Muslim Pop, 80%+ Lapsed Catholic Rate

By Debbie Schlussel

**** SCROLL DOWN FOR UPDATE ****

One thing I know about new Pope Francis is what I knew about the previous Popes before him: that he will have the same anti-Israel position of the previous Popes and that he will be unable to stem the tide of lapsed Catholics that is ever growing concomitant with the ever growing population of Islam in the world. His track record on the second count was not good in Argentina. And Argentina’s Muslims count him as a “friend.” While one of the Pope’s assistants took Israel’s side during the 2006 Israel-Hezbollah war, the new Pope assured Argentinian Muslims on whose side he was.

popefrancisislamiccrescent.jpg

Pope Francis Lost the War Against Islam in Argentina; That Won’t Change @ the Vatican

In fact, Pope Francis, as Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio in Argentina, was unable to stop a rate of lapsed Catholicism that reached 80% of Argentina’s Catholic population. And he was unable to stop the Muslim religion which grew–during the time he was Cardinal–to be the largest Muslim population in South America, some of it through immigration, but a good deal of it via conversion by lapsed Catholics to Islam. Under Bergoglio, Argentina’s Muslim population grew to be the second largest Muslim population in the Americas led only by the United States, with even more Muslims than Canada has. If you expect that he will be able to do throughout world what he was unable to do in Argentina, think again. He has a poor track record. His record is one of dhimmitude and capitulation toward Islam. Don’t look for that to change now that he’s on the world stage. People don’t change in their 70s, not even Popes.

While 92% of Argentina is Catholic, fewer than 20% of that 92% are practicing Catholics (according to the CIA Factbook), a number that got to that point under Pope Francis’ leadership as a Cardinal. And, also during his reign, Argentina’s Muslim population became the largest in Latin America, with estimates ranging from 500,000 Muslims (by the International Religious Freedom Report) to one million (by the more reliable Pew Research Center). Again, expect that to be the same now that he is at the Vatican.


And maybe long-term survival as a worldwide religion is not the goal of the Vatican. Maybe the Pope has no desire to stem the shrinkage of Catholicism and stop its biggest competitor. The capitulative actions of the Catholic Church–such as getting rid of pork at Rome’s soup kitchens to pander to Muslims–certainly aren’t the actions of a religion that wants to stay in business in the long run. And as I’ve pointed out, the Vatican put out a report decrying the persecution of Catholics in the Middle East . . . and blaming Israel–NOT Muslims–for the problem.

**** UPDATE: Reader I Am Me adds,

The other thing he apparently has not done is speak out against the disgusting deal the current government of Argentina made with Iran over the Iranian backed Hezbullah/Revolutionary Guard bombings of Israeli and Jewish institutions in Argentina during the 1990s. I find this especially troubling.

SPOT. ON. As I’ve noted on this site, in the mid-1990s, Hezbollah bombed the Jewish Community Center and Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires, Argentina. The Arab former Muslim then-Prez of Argentina, Menem, covered the whole thing up after he was paid off with $5 million by Iran. How sad that the new Pope went along with that. END UPDATE ****

There is an arms race of houses of worship throughout South America, and the Catholic Church is persona non grata in that arms race. It’s between mosques and Mormon churches. Islam and the Latter Day Saints church are the fastest growing in South America. Not Catholicism, which is losing its members to non-practice or to Islam and Mormonism. Pope Francis had no record of stemming that tide. Don’t look for something different now that he’s Pope. Argentina’s Muslim community tells us who is having the last laugh:

Argentine Muslims have welcomed the election of Argentine cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio as the head of the Roman Cathoilic Churhc. [sic] In an interview with Buenosairesherald.com, Sheij Mohsen Ali and CIRA Secretary General Dr.Sumer Noufouri praised Pope Francis’s “pro-dialogue” nature. “He always showed himself as a friend of the Islamic community. He visited the At-Tauhid Mosque (located) in the neighborhood of Floresta and the Arab-Argentine Ali Ibn Abi Talib School strengthening our relations”, the Director of the House for the Diffusion of Islam Sheik Mohsen Ali said . . . .

More sensitive issues, political arguments, also seem to prove the nature of the two times president of the Argentine Episcopal Conference. “By the time of the 2006 Lebanon War, I held an argument with one of his assistants. He received me and understood my position. He acted like a friend . . .,” the Muslim leader affirmed. . . .

“With joy and expectation of strengthening dialogue between religions”, Secretary General of the Islamic Center of the Republic of Argentina (CIRA) Dr. Sumer Noufouri told Buenosairesherald.com to resume how news about Bergoglio’s appointment were received by the institution he presides.

Considering ties between the CIRA and now Pope Francis “excellent”, Dr. Noufouri explained that the one-decade relation has helped to build Christian-Muslim dialogue, something “really significant in the history of monotheistic relations in Argentina”. A “joint work”, CIRA head added, “that we have never given up on”. Mario Jorge Bergoglio is a “respectful, pro-dialogue person who knows the Islam”, the CIRA Secretary General said and, just like Sheij Mohsen Ali. he chose an anecdote to picture the personality of the elected pontiff.

“When Bergoglio attended the CIRA to have lunch with the board, he told us that in Rome, when he talked about the relation he had with Muslims saying that he came to the CIRA . . . . “Argentina is a model of dialogue and coexistence that, God willing, could be exported to the world.”

Co-existence? More like pandering to the religion that is growing by the one that is dying. Let’s hope this model won’t be exported to the world. Sadly, this Pope will do that. That’s his history.

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Pope Benedict Dons Keffiyeh Given to Him by Palestinians

***

Some faux-conservatives, such as Former Miss USA contestant Shannon Bream at FOX News and Elisabeth Hasselbeck at ABC’s “The View,” decried Pope Francis’ opposition to gay marriage and gay adoption of children. But these are basic views of the Catholic Church. Of course they are his positions. What’s interesting–and not news–is that they don’t decry that these are the views of Islam. I’ve noted this hypocrisy and double standard before, such as when gays attacked Mormon churches in California for backing Proposition 8 against gay marriage, but didn’t attack or vandalize mosques, which were also strongly in support of Prop 8.

Same old, same old here. And don’t hold your breath expecting so-called “Fair and Balanced” to ever actually be fair and balanced on this issue.

Also, don’t expect anything different from the Catholic Church on Islam or Israel. Even though the biggest threat to Catholicism worldwide is, in fact, Islam–and the Middle East’s Catholics are dwindling, this Pope, like the others before him, will attack Israel and whine about the Palestinians.

Count on it. That’s his and his church’s track record. It won’t change.

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98 Responses

“Also, don’t expect anything different from the Catholic Church on Islam or Israel. Even though the biggest threat to Catholicism worldwide is, in fact, Islam–and the Middle East’s Catholics are dwindling, this Pope, like the others before him, will attack Israel and whine about the Palestinians.”

Sadly, this is very succinct and true.

DS_ROCKS! on March 14, 2013 at 1:27 pm

The other thing he apparently has not done is speak out against the disgusting deal the current government of Argentina made with Iran over the Iranian backed Hezbullah/Revolutionary Guard bombings of Israeli and Jewish institutions in Argentina during the 1990s.

I find this especially troubling because in the past he has made statements supportive of the Jewish Community regarding those bombings. Perhaps those statements were a mere smokescreen and he had always preferred to be a dummy, err I mean dhimmi.

I_AM_ME on March 14, 2013 at 1:32 pm

For the life of me, I do not know why either the Christian or Jewish “leaders” continue to kiss the tushies of the Muslims. What does it get them? All it does is make the Christians and Jews look weak and wimpy, and emboldens psychotic Muslims to push harder to turn Christian nations into Muslim vassals (such as England, where the most common birth name for a boy is now Mohammed).

Jonathan E. Grant on March 14, 2013 at 2:04 pm

    Jon,

    Exactly!

    The Church needed someone like Julius II, the Warrior Pope who fielded armies to maintain and expand Christendom.

    Christianity no longer commands the loyalty of the faithful and in a time which Islam is youthful and growing very fast – all the Catholic Church appears to be content to do is to fight to stay relevant.

    Hard to do when the other side – Islam – is playing for offense and the Church is playing defense. When you play defense, you lose.

    Both Christian and secular Western leaders send the same message of dhimmitude and surrender and of course as you and Debbie acutely observed, they’re all too willing to sacrifice the Jews and Israel in a desperate move to make sure the Islamic crocodile doesn’t eat them first.

    But they’ll still get eaten! It may not happen in our lifetime and with the way are going, Christianity is going to face in Europe, in Latin America and here the same fate its now facing in the Middle East – extinction. Blaming the Jews and Israel for it isn’t going to stop it from happening in the future. That’s what no one in the Catholic hierarchy or any one else in the Western World appears to understand and the irony of it all is that its a preventable tragedy.

    NormanF on March 14, 2013 at 3:59 pm

      Norm, Francis may be the Pope to do it. He’s a Jesuit and he is the head of sovereign nation. Only he won’t do it AGAINST Muslims, he’ll do it WITH Muslims.

      I suggest everyone look up “Jesuits” and “Liberation Politics” if they don’t already know. All this oohing and aahing about a “pope for the people” fits right in with that philosophy, even if the media is spinning the stories to say he was against LP. He was a young priest at the right time to embrace this policy.

      Italkit on March 14, 2013 at 5:27 pm

Terrific article Debbie, and I also pity the lasped catholics embracing islam and muslims, IMHO, all religions are man-made, flawed and have had histories of ugliness (genocide, war, homophobia, misogyny, you name it), as for me who’s a so-called “lasped” christian (I sorta consider myself a “pagan”), I clearly will NOT embrace islam and muslims, because fortunately for me, I use tons of critical thinking and know what islam is and what it represents, etc.

Debbie, overnight I was reading an article from “Newsmax” (I assume you have you’re differences with Newsmax Ms. Schlussel) and they said that this new pope was a strong opponent of Argentina’s President Kristina Kirchner, mainley because she’s been allegedly been at war with the church in her nation in South America. Newsmax also said that Mr. Bergogliohas been animated by the rising protestant evangelical movements across Latin America and has encouraged the church to concentrate on tradition while allowing the faithful to express their emotions and so forth.

DS, I’m glad you wrote this piece about the new Pope on who he really is, what he exactly stands for and represents, etc. because nobody either on the left wing or the right wing will bring these statistical information to the table like what you’ve did in this link!

“A nation is defined by its borders, language & culture!”

Sean R. on March 14, 2013 at 2:40 pm

Since Elisabeth “Hasseldumb’s” condemnation of Pope Francis’ “gay” marriage stance was mentioned, I’d say it’s much ado about nothing that (according to various rumors) she is slated to be axed from The View at season’s end (at the same time uber-leftist “Joy”[sic] Behar is to leave), ostensibly because her “conservative”(sic) views are considered to be unpopular with the closed-minded, borderline brain-dead, overly left-wing audiences that see that show of yapping yentas on a daily basis. However, there is reason why the term “faux-conservative” is applied to Ms. Hasselbeck on this site – and not just on this issue but on many, many others.

But let me join the chorus of those who find these facts about the new Pope an eye-opener, however sobering.

ConcernedPatriot on March 14, 2013 at 2:52 pm

i won’t defend the pope
or anyone else
for stupid aquiescence

what we’re seeing is
worldwide cowardice
in the face of a
self-declared enemy

decades ago people marveled at how
a small group of thugs ( the nazis )
took over not only
the germanic speaking countries
but nearly all of europe

why be astounded
it was cowardice
at its most fulfilling moment

neville chamberlain was just
its visible face of it
but it was group cowardice by
nearly all of europe’s leaders
as well as the usa

prestigio on March 14, 2013 at 3:16 pm

Great research on this new pope Debbie.

Anti-semitic Chuck Hagel, John Brennan and now the new pope.

Was the Catholic Church silent on Hitlers rampage way back when?

Maybe SNL will have a find the pope in the halal pizza gag in rememberance of old Father Guido.

Panhandle on March 14, 2013 at 3:35 pm

I suppose it should be flattering for a Catholic that people expect so much from the Church. If memory serves, we DID try taking care of the Muslims once. It was called the Crusades. They mostly failed because of widespread apathy, and because people were unwilling to deal with the threat until it was literally at the city gates. Sound familiar?

With all due respect to Debbie, a practicing Jew should be the last person to speak about “lapsed” members of a religious body—considering that one can actually be an Orthodox Jew without even believing in God. What do you think that says for the Reform, Conservative, and the rest?

The only “threat” to the Church is the same one that we’ve always had, and that is the World. There is nothing particularly unique about the problems the Church is experiencing at the moment. If things were so great back in the day, tell me why St. Paul had to write all his epistles? Why did Jesus himself tell our new pope’s namesake, St. Francis of Assisi in a vision, to “rebuild his Church,” back in the 12th century?

People leave the Church all the time, and give plenty of excuses for it, but there is really only one reason: They left because of some personal sin, and even though Catholics have available the sacrament of Reconciliation (Confession), some choose to not face the sins, and simply leave. Thus, they become Muslims and can simply pray five times a day with no other personal responsibility. How ironic that they are driven to this regimentation.

They can also become various shades of Protestant, in which nothing at all is expected besides “accepting Jesus as your personal savior.” Funny, how Prots, who always tell us that they don’t believe in salvation by works, in fact believe exactly that. They are saved by the mere “work” of accepting Jesus.

The Church will likely not save the world, and that is not its mission. Rather, it will save souls, but “some assembly is required,” and many would rather opt out.

RR: As a longtime reader and commenter on this site, you know better unless you have a short memory, as I repeatedly attack lapsed Jews on this site. Regardless of that, my religious status and my religion do not bar me from commenting on major issues in the news, such as the appointment of a man who not only leads one of the world’s major churches/religions but is also a head of state. The fact is that if your congregants lapse, you are losing customers. CEOs of companies and businesses are judged by market share–including how many customers they lose or gain against competitors in their regions. And that’s how any church/religion that wants to stay in business should think. The Catholic Church is losing customers and the biggest competitor who is stealing those customers is Islam. Certainly Judaism is shrinking to intermarriage and lapsed Jews. I’ve written about that a lot. But that has nothing to do with the price of tea in China with regard to the new Pope and his track record. It’s just a red herring on your part. DS

Red Ryder on March 14, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    Thanks Red Ryder for that very informative reply. I’ve learnt much from it.

    Also….it seems the new Pope has indeed already vowed to work with Jews…and has made contact with them on his first day in office!

    MCS: What difference does it make if the Pope “works with Jews” or “made contact with them” as you say? In the last few decades the Popes have always done that, and at the same time been extremely anti-Israel and pandering to Muslims. You are mistaking meeting with groups of people with policy and conduct. In fact, most of the Jews the Vatican officials meet with are liberal and anti-Israel anyway. Doesn’t make a difference. The points you raise are irrelevant to the points in this column. DS

    ms Catholic state on March 14, 2013 at 3:44 pm

      Debbie’s point to pro-Israel Catholics is that they miss the bigger picture. Its not what the Pope and Vatican officials say, its what they do. About the twin problems I mentioned which challenge the Catholic Church’s standing as the oldest institution in the Western World.
      .

      And her point is the Church’s Islamo-pandering and stand against Israel that has been in place for decades is something that’s not going to change – it hasn’t in the past and it won’t in the future. We’d like to see that happen and the matter of fact is inter-faith dialogue between Catholics and Jews is not going to get the Church to see its real problem isn’t with the Jews and Israel but with the fear it has of Islam.

      Its the fight with the latter faith on saving souls that the Church is sadly, MIA. Its not even evangelizing large parts of the world that are off limits to it because Islam had made Christian outreach there impossible. And when your enemy has the home turf advantage, things go downhill – and they are.

      NormanF on March 14, 2013 at 5:22 pm

    Red Ryder, Debbie has written many times about JINOs (Jews in name Only). The fact is that Catholics, a group much larger and more powerful than the Jews, have been as complacent as, or even more complacent, than the Jews I meeting the Islamic onslaught. The Muslims are persecuting the Christians in every Islamic country and yet the Vatican went out of its way to criticize Israel, falsely claiming that Israel is persecuting Catholics, which is pure crap.

    In fact, when Israel regained Jerusalem and Bethlehem in 1967, Israel spent millions of dollars of its own money to help make repairs to the Church of the Nativity, which had fallen in disrepair while the Jordanians were in control.

    Like the left wing JINOs, the Church often seems more interested in making friends with Muslims, than in welcoming back the flock.

    Jonathan E. Grant on March 14, 2013 at 3:47 pm

      @JEG and Norman–

      Here again, a modern day Crusade will not work. Better–within reason of course–to keep relations as friendly as possible.

      Sadly, many Catholics have left the Middle East because of persecution, but–as Stalin famously said–“How many divisions has the Pope?”

      To put things very close to home for Debbie, why did white people leave Detroit and flee to the suburbs? Why did they not stay and “fight”?

      It’s because many of us exercise the virtue of prudence.

      As to “And preaching love and brotherhood to your enemies sounds like a message of theological disarmament”—-this seems kind of reminiscent of the teachings of the greatest Jew of all time. You might know him by the Latinized form of His Greek name….Jesus.

      Red Ryder on March 14, 2013 at 4:08 pm

        “Here again, a modern day Crusade will not work. Better–within reason of course–to keep relations as friendly as possible.”

        RR, you are the same RR who is a regular participant here, aren’t you?

        skzion on March 14, 2013 at 4:18 pm

          @skzion–

          I hope so!

          Red Ryder on March 14, 2013 at 4:23 pm

      Jon,

      Sadly, that’s true. Muslims are playing for keeps and the Catholic Church is turning the other cheek.

      What does Christianity have to offer to Western man today? How can one live the good life and please G-d?

      I think that’s a very good question. We want people to be more than they are and to be aware this life is a pilgrimage to eternity. In the Middle Ages, people knew the meaning of life.

      Today, that’s completely disappeared. And while the Holy Father may be a Jesuit, he isn’t a warrior Jesuit like Ignatius and Francis Xavier. Islam is a much tougher and more relentless foe to the Church than the Protestants ever were at their height.

      NormanF on March 14, 2013 at 4:37 pm

    “a practicing Jew should be the last person to speak about “lapsed” members of a religious body—considering that one can actually be an Orthodox Jew without even believing in God.”

    Huh? No. You mean perhaps that one can be a Jew, according to the Orthodox definition, and not believe?

    skzion on March 14, 2013 at 4:12 pm

      @skzion–

      I had this discussion with a number of Chabad types a few years ago, and the best they could come up with was:

      Well…yes, you *could* be a practicing Orthodox Jew and not believe, but who would want to?”

      Red Ryder on March 14, 2013 at 4:14 pm

        RR, I take Chabad seriously, but unless these sources were poseks, their say-so is just that.

        skzion on March 14, 2013 at 8:03 pm

    RR,

    With all the problems the Catholic Church, the one thing it is has left is that it keeps its core teachings. It has the problem of convincing the faithful to remain true to them.

    In our American marketplace of religious free ideas, liberal faiths such as the mainline Protestant churches and Reform/Conservative Judaism are shrinking rapidly because they make no demands of their believers and they’re content to accept whatever the dominant secular culture wants.

    Faiths like the Mormon LDS, evangelical Protestant churches, Orthodox Judaism and of course Islam – are fast growing because they do stand for something greater than themselves. And they don’t take secularism just lying down in the fetal position. What the Catholic Church has to decide is if it wants to be more like them or more like the liberal religious faiths that have lost relevance and which are dying. So far, its opted to join the latter side – not intentionally but by accommodation to the secular culture, retreat in the face of Islam and bureaucratic sloth and drift.

    Reversing those trends is a herculean task indeed and its probably beyond the reach of the new Pope or for that matter any man to turn around. Pope Benedict failed at it and the new Pope Francis probably won’t do any better in that department. As Debbie pointed out – people especially in their 70s have already have done what they can and with the Church’s established track record, I wouldn’t look for it to go off in a new direction that it desperately needs to do if it wants to see the next millennium.

    NormanF on March 14, 2013 at 4:27 pm

      @NormanF–

      Ipse dixit—but in a good way! The Church evangelizes, but as you say, maintains core beliefs–unlike most others.

      People still have their free will, and can accept it or not. We call it the gift of faith.

      Red Ryder on March 14, 2013 at 4:31 pm

    Debbie-

    I surely appreciate that you condemn JINOs. However, you err when you speak of “customers” and market share.

    If the Church were reduced to the Pope and two followers, it would still be the Church. On other postings, I explained why Catholics will “lapse.” Inasmuch as we have standards, which they do not wish to follow, good riddance.

    Red Ryder on March 14, 2013 at 5:45 pm

    Quote …. “The Catholic Church is losing customers and the biggest competitor who is stealing those customers is Islam……the Church have given up on challenging and competing with Islam and its losing the spiritual arms race…… Islam is trailing behind by a slight margin. Guess which way the future is trending.’

    Why is this happening …Read the Quran with an open mind and willing heart and you will see the reason why ?

    Islam is destined to conquer all ….isms and religions as it is by far the better truth …

    No religion is comparable in offering such simplistic and real world values for a peaceful and spiritual lifestyle …. ISLAM is simply a beatiful way of life , Period

    Islam is not a threat but simply a better choice … as said earlier ….Read the Quran for your enlightenment !!! and you will see the reason why .
    Dont make judgements without research on this reading !!!!

    MNM on April 25, 2013 at 10:58 am

The main problems the Church faces are Islam and also rampant secularism.

No matter who is Pope, I don’t expect it to fight those dangerous developments that threaten the existence of the Western World today.

The Catholic Church is so politically correct, it seems like it doesn’t want to survive in the long run. And preaching love and brotherhood to your enemies sounds like a message of theological disarmament.

Pope Francis, I’m sure is a decent man but decent men get eaten for breakfast, lunch and dinner in our world. The Church needed a wolf and instead it chose a very lovable puppy! That isn’t going to help it turn around the future of Christianity in our post-Christian world.

And electing an elderly man as a pope is not sign the Church is going to aggressively tackle the real twin threats that it now confronts in this century. Which Pope Francis or no Pope Francis, will remain hanging like dark shadows over the West for a long time to come.

NormanF on March 14, 2013 at 3:46 pm

    Norman, I was gonna give big props to JEG (and I still do) for really getting to the truth and gist but your last post was excellent. It really tied up nicely the feelings I have regarding this and you hit the bulls eye. Nicely done.

    This was a very good and provocative column. I really do think the Islam problem is the be-all end-all problem the world over and this column really highlights it well (along with JEG & Normans posts).

    Sean R., I just think it’s important that I remind you all the issues you have with religion are TENFOLD under communism. I don’t have problems with religions other than Islam (of course!), Santeria (sp?), fricken’ VooDoo and a big, fat fraud like Scientology. Otherwise, I couldn’t care less about people’s religions. I like the freedom of choice…just as God gives us.

    Also, I don’t mind Atheism either as long as peeps are not arrogant about it and don’t want to infringe on MY religious liberty (and others’ as well). I will put out there that in 2013 I am convinced most Atheists are out of control NARCISSISTS and if that is the case just as “Sweet Brown” says…”Ain’t Nobody Got Time For That”. I am bored with it and annoyed by the narcissism. I refuse to indulge narcissists anymore.

    RR, I really liked some of what you said but like usual, the quote that left Skzion gobsmacked left me gobsmacked too. I just don’t get that and it did beg the question Skzion asked.

    DS pointed out a VERY uncomfortable truth. At the end of the day it MUST be reckoned with and I hope Catholics will NOT be offended by what she quite, rightly pointed out. The Pontiff IS the head of the Catholic Church and HE has the power. Hope peeps won’t blame the messenger but you know how low-info dopes can go.

    And in the end, the world’s problem (ISLAM) is STILL coalescing with so many ignorant to it and now PANDERING to it.

    THAT’S what peeps should get emotional about but it is 2013 and presently, it’s Karshaians uber alles.

    Skunky on March 14, 2013 at 4:47 pm

      Agreed Skunky, and you’re right about the communists part, yes in the past communists (and socialists regimes) regimes in the world have viewed folks who practice and follow a faith as enemies of the state. Now yes I have some issues with religion and some folks who are fanatically religious, but at the very sametime I do NOT support or condone persecutions based on what you’re religious views are, and you know in the past Skunky on this blog that I’ve defended those who where persecuted due to their faith when DS has written stories of people being persecuted based on what religion they believe (mainley muslims/islam are guilty of persecutions regarding faith).

      Now regarding atheistism and secularism, I to don’t have a problem with them and their views either, for the most part, many secular people mind their own business and could careless for religion and spirituality, but here’s the punch line regarding the atheists who you referred to as “arrogant”, those types of secular people happen to “anti-theists”. Anti-theists mainly rejects theism in a somewhat hardcore way and not all anti-theists people think and behave like that, about a small percentage of them act like that, in which they give other anti-theists a bad image, just as they give the average atheists, agnostic, secular-humanists, etc. a negative image.

      “A nation is defined by its borders, language & culture!”

      Sean R. on March 14, 2013 at 5:57 pm

Satan got into the Vatican after the reign of Pope Pious X. Pious X was the last true leader of the Catholic Church. I totally agree with Norman F. that the Catholic Church needs another Warrior Pope. I agree with Julius I and I would go back even further than that.

Someone who will absolutely crush Liberalism and Islam.

Confederate South on March 14, 2013 at 5:03 pm

Skunky,

Debbie isn’t an enemy of Catholicism and Christianity.

As a Jew, she’s sounded an alarm – a wakeup call that hopefully will shake up Catholics and Christians. What I mean is that when you’re too close to the problem – as they are – you can’t really see it for what it is and appropriately treat it.

Perhaps some people are listening! Debbie’s advantage is that as an outsider she can call it as she sees it and doesn’t have to pull her punches out of fear of offending someone as a Catholic thinker might be inclined to do. Its human nature for people leading a large institution not to rock the boat. But that’s what the Catholic Church has to do to not only attract new adherents but to also welcome back people who are dropping out of it as committed Catholics.

For the record – a Catholic hospital saved my life and the Church has done its share of good works of mercy as well as having the dark side of its history, as we’ll all too aware. If it wants to continue to serve as a beacon of hope to a troubled world, it essentially has two choices: to change and fight or to remain as it is and eventually die. The writing is on the wall.

All we can do is pray someone is listening to that message.

NormanF on March 14, 2013 at 5:04 pm

@Skunky–

I guess I have to be more explicit. Orthodox Judaism–notoriously–involves following hundreds of often arbitrary rules. As was suggested by Jesus and others, it was quite easy for the tail to start wagging the dog. Recall his debates with the scribes and Pharisees. The current-day Orthodox are the descendants of the Pharisees.

That is, you could become completely obsessed with following those rules, and in some cases not have to “worry” about God at all.

Even if we forget about the Orthodox, we have all the other spin-offs, and they are still called “Jewish.” While I grant that only a few Orthodox Jews are actual atheists, the majority of Reform Jews are, and consider themselves “cultural” rather than religious Jews–whatever that means.

All this is saying that a Jew like Debbie should be the last person to speak of lapsed Catholics–and why the Church is not “doing something” about these people.

In our case, if you leave the Church, you are a Protestant and not a Catholic!

Red Ryder on March 14, 2013 at 5:06 pm

    Another great job Norman. Well said!

    RR, my apologies…I wasn’t more specific when I should have been. This is what shocked me…

    “Here again, a modern day Crusade will not work. Better–within reason of course–to keep relations as friendly as possible.”

    RR, you are the same RR who is a regular participant here, aren’t you?

    skzion on March 14, 2013 at 4:18 pm”

    But I am glad you posted more on the other question at hand. I agree with your last sentence, indeed!

    Skunky on March 14, 2013 at 5:26 pm

      @Skunky–

      On an earlier posting I said..

      They (the Crusades) mostly failed because of widespread apathy, and because people were unwilling to deal with the threat until it was literally at the city gates. Sound familiar?

      Clearly, there is no way that we could have a Crusade now–not the least of which reason is that the Pope cannot raise an army. Thus, we *must* be prudent and try to maintain reasonable relations with our enemies. What choice do we have?

      More than that, unlike earlier times, all Western governments are openly secular–if not completely hostile to the Church, but via the Stockholm syndrome (in this case started by the French after the Algerian war) pander to the Muslims.

      Debbie can complain about this all she wants, but there is no other course. Besides, the World can–and probably will–go to Hell. The Church can still save individual souls.

      Saving the world is literally a fool’s errand.

      Red Ryder on March 14, 2013 at 5:39 pm

        RR, I just don’t know what to say. You said it again…

        “Thus, we *must* be prudent and try to maintain reasonable relations with our enemies. What choice do we have?”

        You know better. It goes against what *I* like to call DS’ first rule on Islam. The fools errand is being nice to Islam. I know you read this site regularly but that belief makes all the NEEDED warnings and the facts on Islam futile. I just don’t know what to say.

        In a previous post I warned those comfy Mooooooslims they have no respite either. Sunnis will get you for not being Shi’ite and vice versa.

        I just don’t know what to say.

        Skunky on March 14, 2013 at 5:50 pm

          @Skunky–

          OK. Let me try to say this another way. We can still be the Church Militant, without getting into an actual war with the Muslims. As I stated before, we tried that before–under much more favorable conditions–and it failed.

          I never said that we should give in to their hegemony. You might recall that the Concordat was forced on the Church by the Nazis, and it was the most prudent course at the time.

          You’re just going to have to believe that “The gates of Hell will not prevail” against the Church. So said the founder of the Church to our first Pope.

          Red Ryder on March 14, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    [Red Ryder - guess I have to be more explicit. Orthodox Judaism–notoriously–involves following hundreds of often arbitrary rules. As was suggested by Jesus and others, it was quite easy for the tail to start wagging the dog. Recall his debates with the scribes and Pharisees. The current-day Orthodox are the descendants of the Pharisees.

    That is, you could become completely obsessed with following those rules, and in some cases not have to “worry” about God at all.]

    There are many laws we do not know the reason for that we follow. All we can state with certainty about those laws is that the reason(s) for them have yet to be revealed. That we do not know the reason for them does not make them arbitrary nor does it mean there is no reason for them.

    We observe those laws because G-d commanded us to do them and it is part of our service to him. Period. At no point does not having to worry about G-d a part of (or a derivative of) us not having to “worry” about G-d.

    I_AM_ME on March 15, 2013 at 9:30 am

      [Me - At no point does not having to worry about G-d a part of (or a derivative of) us not having to “worry” about G-d.]

      In thislast paragraph I meant:

      At no point does not having to worry about G-d a part of (or a derivative of) us following these rules.

      I_AM_ME on March 15, 2013 at 9:35 am

The fact that Abe Foxman of the ADL warmly endorses this pope should raise a red flag.

Italkit on March 14, 2013 at 5:32 pm

    That was absolutely deadly, Italkit.

    skzion on March 14, 2013 at 8:13 pm

      Sorry, SK, my Aspie brain doesn’t understand your comment. Really.

      Italkit on March 15, 2013 at 4:30 am

        I meant touche, great point.

        skzion on March 15, 2013 at 10:17 am

          Thanks, SK, I thought so but as I said, Asperger’s. Combine that with a shirav and my head didn’t work at all. ;p

          Italkit on March 16, 2013 at 2:34 pm

Will the new pope be called “Pope Frank” by his friends?

Jonathan E. Grant on March 14, 2013 at 5:41 pm

    “Papa Chico” would be the Spanish nick name.

    Italkit on March 15, 2013 at 4:37 am

Well I don’t know much apart from some glimpsed headlines and I haven’t even read the article being happily sloshed.

Looks like Debbie’s pretty much confirming my instinctual suspicions.
Plus the media’s been salivating over the nomination for weeks so that can’t be a coincidence, what goes, goes. They really are a bunch of hapless hacks these days but who notices?
Well, look out for the come around kid.
I’ll read this properly when I can be bothered to pay attention.

Frankz on March 14, 2013 at 5:51 pm

Debbie, i think this time you are wrong, i live in buenos aires and this pope is a good guy, he was with jews in januka, he used to meet bergman rabi and is member of intefaith gruop in argentina with muslim, evangelistics, jews and catholics.
He was in AMIA too.
regards

Arturo on March 14, 2013 at 6:17 pm

Arturo, these guys love to chat and powwow, it’s what they do for a living – which is to worship the nothing, like the UN.
If you want to understand the meaning of nothing in all of its infinite variety follow this link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qypnQkdg89g

Frankz on March 14, 2013 at 6:27 pm

RR,

Debbie pointed out a very serious problem, one in which you’re in denial about. And as long as you and other Catholics remain in denial, the Church is not going to do what it has to do to save itself.

You have to admit you have a problem before you can fix it. And as long as the Church doesn’t do something about losing adherents to its left and right, its not going to stem the tide of empty Churches in Europe and around the world.

As a Jew, Debbie has no dog in this fight. But its something that should concern Christians – maybe not you and your family and the larger point is the religious freedoms you now enjoy and being a Christian is something that future generations can no longer take for granted.

Just something to be aware of.

NormanF on March 14, 2013 at 7:00 pm

    @NormanF–

    I think the difficulty here is that you and Debbie think that what is happening currently is a problem, and that the Church must change to “save itself.”

    As Catholics, we must believe that.. (Matthew 16)

    13 When Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?”

    14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

    15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

    16 Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

    17 Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.

    18 And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.

    So far, this has seemed to work out….

    Red Ryder on March 14, 2013 at 7:25 pm

      RR,

      Christianity became the state religion of the Rome Empire in the 4th Century. It survived the disintegration of the Western Roman Empire, disseminated the Bible, established moral law, preserved the best of the classical pagan culture and it created the basis for European medieval civilization.

      For its first 2000 years the Catholic Church had a definite calling. What does it seek for the future? That is a question to which no one knows the answer. And that is at the very heart of the crisis besetting the Church today.

      NormanF on March 14, 2013 at 7:40 pm

        Bravo, Norman.

        skzion on March 14, 2013 at 8:16 pm

        We must not forget the old saw that, “The more things change, the more they remain the same.”

        Victoryman on March 18, 2013 at 9:12 am

      RR, I am not competent in Catholicism. However, there are important common elements between Christianity and Judaism. In the latter, it is a great sin to require Hashem to perform miracles when followers do not do serious heavy lifting first. One does not coerce the Big Guy into solving problems.

      So far as I know, the Church has always understood that individual turning of the cheek does not imply that collectively any attack against is to be met with passivity. Historically, the Church has certainly seemed to implement this understanding.

      Muslims are not primarily waging a war with armies. Their success is based on ideological warfare. The Catholic church can indeed wage this kind of war against Islam.

      I want to point out that I have bashed Orthodox rabbis in just this way. But really, there are far more Catholics, and numbers matter.

      skzion on March 14, 2013 at 8:36 pm

I actually was surprised that they chose a 76 year old pope. One would have thought that w/ his predecessor retiring, that his successor would be someone who would be there for a while.

However, if this is his record on Muslims, one, if one is a Catholic, can only hope that he, like his predecessor, doesn’t last long. It would be wonderful if the Vatican could get a pope who is both young and smart about Islam, and has a goal of at least seeing to it that the Catholic church remains dominant wherever it is the majority – be it Western Europe, Latin America, Philippines and so on.

However, if in Argentina, Catholicism is lapsing and there is an arms race b/w Islam and the LDS Church, I sincerely hope that the LDS church wins. A Mormon Argentina or Brazil or Venezuela or Nicaragua doesn’t bother me. A Muslim one sure does!

Infidel on March 14, 2013 at 7:02 pm

Infidel,

Evangelical Protestanism and the LDS are making deep inroads in Latin America.

If Christianity is going to survive there as a faith, this is its future. Its far to be preferred to Islam if the Catholic Church falters in re-evangelizing it.

The Pope warned today the Church is in danger of becoming a “compassionate NGO” so maybe he does get it.

If he can’t turn things around at top, I bet that no one could. In the Catholic World, the Jesuits aren’t called “G-d’s Marines” for nothing.

NormanF on March 14, 2013 at 7:21 pm

Red Ryder Hood, keep praying buddy you’ll need it, discretion may be the better part of valor but you need some valor to begin with.
One day you’ll have nowhere left to run fool.

Frankz on March 14, 2013 at 8:00 pm

    Frankz, you’re a great guy who makes excellent points here. I agree that RR is dead wrong this time. But please, avoid insults.

    No offense intended. :)

    skzion on March 14, 2013 at 8:22 pm

      @skzion–

      With all due respect, what am I wrong about? Might I suggest that a number of commenters here have some wrong ideas about the Church.

      The sentiment seems to be that the Church needs to “get with it,” or…die, I suppose. Never mind that it has somehow survived for more than 2000 years, withstanding far worse than it faces now.

      Debbie and others here surely were supporters of Vatican II. Perhaps they do not realize that the net effect of this “wonderful” Council–if you are speaking of building market share–was a substantial loss of people, a significant drop in Mass attendance, and a massive exodus of ordained personnel. Nowhere was this more apparent than in Quebec, which went from being one of the most Catholic places in the world to the least Catholic in about five years.

      More than that, it has been suggested that several key documents of this Council were purposely written to be not only difficult to understand, but in a way that would mislead people. I can only say that if you actually read the source documents, you will tend to agree with this point of view.

      One example is the elevation of “conscience” as being all important—which led to untold doctrinal misunderstandings, and further writings many years later had to re-address this in terms of a “properly-formed conscience.”

      Indeed, the English-language Mass itself had to change recently–based on purposeful mistranslations in the Novus Ordo. Less well known is that the “non-charismatic” Pope Paul VI worked diligently to overcome SOME of the mistakes of Vatican II, and wrote what is perhaps the most prophetic church document in the last 100 years: Humanae Vitae.

      While I am not questioning the religious values of any commenters here, to dismiss the notion that the gates of Hell will not prevail against the Church–as said by Jesus Himself–betrays at least a functional atheism.

      Finally, the tragic but overblown sex scandals are absolutely a direct result of reaching out—in this case to homosexuals to be ordained. I could list many high Church officials, quite respected in the secular world, who bear grave responsibility for these abuses.

      A few names would include: Cardinal Cushing of Boston, who dismissed the warnings of Fr. Leonard Feeney, and took great delight in ruining the career of this priest, once the top Jesuit scholar in America. Cardinal Bernadin of Chicago, who was portrayed as a hero (I suppose for dying with some dignity), but was one of the all-time biggest American cheerleaders for gays in the Church. Many suggest that he was not exactly celibate in that area himself.

      And, who can forget Cardinal Carlo Martini of Milan, the definite champion of gays? Some have suggested that he was the de facto leader of the lavender mafia at the very seat of power within the Church.

      Needless to say, these three men were all heroes to those who wanted the Church to “get with it.”

      Dozens more historical examples could be cited about how “changing with the times” has NEVER worked in this eternal institution.

      Red Ryder on March 15, 2013 at 8:59 am

        RR, my response on March 14, 2013 at 8:36 pm explains my position on your position. Please read it carefully.

        No one here has said the Church should be more hip. Rather, the recurrent theme is that it should recognize its deadliest enemy and use it bully pulpit and grassroots organization appropriately.

        skzion on March 15, 2013 at 10:41 am

          @skzion–

          “Getting with it” in this context means responding to what you have pronounced as the Church’s “biggest problem” at the moment. The Church’s biggest problem will always and forever be the world.

          The bully pulpit is ultimately used to evangelize, and to save individual souls. If Muslims (or Jews for that matter) wish to convert, good for them. For us to also be aware of the dangers of Islam–and so many other occasions of sin–so much the better.

          Red Ryder on March 15, 2013 at 11:30 am

          RR, you still have not responded to the relevant post:

          RR, I am not competent in Catholicism. However, there are important common elements between Christianity and Judaism. In the latter, it is a great sin to require Hashem to perform miracles when followers do not do serious heavy lifting first. One does not coerce the Big Guy into solving problems.

          Does Catholicism differ in this regard? Are you allowed to sit passively and wait for G-d to save your church?

          So far as I know, the Church has always understood that individual turning of the cheek does not imply that collectively any attack against is to be met with passivity. Historically, the Church has certainly seemed to implement this understanding.

          The Catholic church has not taken adopted your fatalistic passivity historically. Do you disagree? While it did not have the means of finally reconquering the land the Muslims stole, it’s not like this was seen to be pointless or a bad idea.

          Muslims are not primarily waging a war with armies. Their success is based on ideological warfare. The Catholic church can indeed wage this kind of war against Islam.

          You think that the Church will win no matter what. Naturally, as a Jew, I think you are (ultimately) quite wrong. However, your church can fail earlier rather than later.

          I want to point out that I have bashed Orthodox rabbis in just this way. But really, there are far more Catholics, and numbers matter.

          skzion on March 14, 2013 at 8:36 pm

          I’m not singling out the Pope.

          Finally, this time around you say:

          “The bully pulpit is ultimately used to evangelize, and to save individual souls. If Muslims (or Jews for that matter) wish to convert, good for them.”

          Uh, no. The bully pulpit is used to exhort people to behave virtuously. It is no “individual” than any other means of persuasion.

          skzion on March 15, 2013 at 4:45 pm

In 2005, Bergoglio was the first public personality to sign a petition for justice in the AMIA Jewish community center bombing case. He also was one of the signatories on a document called “85 victims, 85 signatures” as part of the bombing’s 11th anniversary. In June 2010, he visited the rebuilt AMIA building to talk with Jewish leaders.

fs on March 14, 2013 at 8:34 pm

I forgot to mention, the aforementioned quote is from an editorial from today’s jpost.com

fs on March 14, 2013 at 8:36 pm

    Oh, jpost. That explains it.

    skzion on March 14, 2013 at 8:38 pm

ok skzion

Frankz on March 14, 2013 at 8:54 pm

Argentina is mostly Italian-Argentine.

It suffers from many of the same problems as Italy. What’s the novelty with an Italian who speaks Spanish?

Good question.

NormanF on March 14, 2013 at 10:01 pm

Ya know Deb… I know a little bit about Catholics who left the church. Not all of them become Muslims. Some of them embrace Judaism.

Some Jews let that little Halacha thingy complicate the matter.

The RCC murdered itself by seeking an empire by coupling church and state. 2000 years later, the population of Catholics have grown cynical due to corruption. The RCC is just hanging on to what little they have left; all the time knowing that their religion is dying. Few Catholics will say this, but I have the luxury of having half a family of Catholics and I can just sit there silently while they bring up the subject and draw this conclusion without my saying a word. After all! Why should I contribute to the discussion? It’s not my (or Mrs. TINSC’s) problem.

Muslims are making the same mistake. It might take another 500 years for Islam to whither and die, but it will happen.

You see! The difference between Judaism, Christianity and Islam is simple. One religion is a nationalist religion based on Eretz Yisrael; a rather small and easily managed place (by today’s standards). The other two are imperialist movements based on conquering the world.

Over time, this will become evident to all. You know! “Adonai will become ruler over the entire earth. On that day Adonai shall be One and The Name One.” … and all that other good stuff.

You’re column tells me that the “new Pope” is just one microscopic step in that direction.

Regards,

There is NO Santa Claus (aka TINSC)

There is NO Santa Claus on March 14, 2013 at 10:06 pm

When the Pharaoh flies in to l’eretz on Airforce 1
before Pesach, he may bring the new Papal impostor.

It will be a rush to wash the feet of the dispossessed
in the occupied territories.

jay on March 14, 2013 at 10:09 pm

Debbie the new pope is already having some PR problems (check The Daily Mail) as he was in bed with Argentina’s military junta along with the rest of the Church and didn’t seem too interested in abuses brought to his attention. Hopefully this gets interesting.

A1 on March 14, 2013 at 11:51 pm

The most pressing issue of the Catholic Church is the corruption of the Curia. If he cleans out those who covered up sex abuse and helped the Vatican bank launder money,during what will probably be a short papacy, he would have done his job.

Kim on March 15, 2013 at 12:32 am

Typical Schlussel hate crap. You don’t like him because he won’t bow down and grovel before Israel and support everything they do,

Jedediah on March 15, 2013 at 2:52 am

    Jedediah,

    Debbie only pointed out the Vatican’s pro-Islamic policies are leading the Catholic Church to a dead end. And its attacks on Israel won’t win over its Muslim enemies.

    This is not what it ought to be doing. Noting that won’t change isn’t an attack on Catholics, its simply recognition that despite the Church’s spiritual character, its also always been a political animal and will continue to be one in the future.

    After all the Pope is not just a religious leader, he’s a head of state. And criticizing his foreign policy is not the same as criticizing pious Catholics to try to live according to the teachings of the Gospels and who peform works of mercy in the world.

    NormanF on March 15, 2013 at 3:53 am

Due to his age, I suspect that he will be just another placeholder.

Worry01 on March 15, 2013 at 3:32 am

    Worry,

    Its a very strenuous job. Leading over a billion people is no easy task. The Church has grown over the millenia from a small scattered movement of Christians into a global empire managed by a vast bureaucracy in Rome.

    Pope Francis strikes me as one of those rare people who is almost a human saint. Human nature being what it is, few people have the kind of qualities essential to being great leaders. The Pope might be spiritually impressive. But that is not a characteristic suitable to be a talented administrator of a large organization. Running a vast church is an enormous undertaking. With all that, you wonder why any Catholic cardinal still wants the job. It can wear down the stoutest of souls.

    And at 76, as Debbie noted, people don’t change much especially the new Pope. Its possible he might well surprise us but as things stand, I doubt it.

    NormanF on March 15, 2013 at 4:07 am

You need not be a mensch to know that the Catholic church was one of the Nazi’s greatest pillars of support .(pope benedict,former nazi .)
A more hateful Organization has never existed in this world than the catholic church and although I maybe wrong,it is the catholics treatment of the muslims that has bought us to where we are today. One only needs to read the history of popes to see a foul bunch of corrupt self serving individuals throughout the last 1800 years
The numbers of followers of the catholic faith had nothing to do with people wanting to be catholic,it was always about politics and subjugation. Note the countries which are predominately catholic and I will show you counties mired in poverty and superstition etc. This also makes for a firm breeding ground for islamic fundamentalism …
. A subject ,I am sure DS has a firm grip on .

Pope Francis has already been named as being complicit in the disgusting carryings on in Argentina by turning a blind eye . So much for adopting the name of their Francis of Assisi.

Aron B on March 15, 2013 at 9:39 am

    @Aron–

    Such concentrated and no doubt willful ignorance.

    Red Ryder on March 15, 2013 at 9:43 am

      RR, Aron Boring is one of the meshuganah (sp?) babbling idiots who bore people here with solipsistic prose and not a cogent point in sight.

      The crashing bore has his hate on but that’s it. He’s a bloody bore with no point and just foolish hate of anyone and anything in his quiver. *YAWN*

      Skunky on March 15, 2013 at 10:18 am

The new Pope does not seem to be a proponent of Free Market Capitalism Jerry Bowyer Pittsburgh Pennsylvania.

The Catholic Church has been moving Left since Quadrogessimo Anno authored, in large part, by German Jesuit Socialist Oswald Von Nell-Bruening.

South American Catholic Church has been significant proponent of “Social Justice”, a form of anti-capitalist socialism and not inconsistent with Argentinean political philosophy

All in all, one is not thrilled and one needs to be wary.

It is interesting that Pope Benedict gave up power. Very, very unusual for any incumbent to to that.

bobguzzardi on March 15, 2013 at 10:20 am

…and just when I was starting to warm to the guy…

CG on March 15, 2013 at 10:28 am

it is yet another disappointing turn of events. no light in the tunnel. I fear we will descend into the default position …which is strong man rule, not democracy or anything resembling it.

keep writing DS your voice is one of the few that has not compromised. Regards

General P. Malaise on March 15, 2013 at 10:48 am

Nobody should be surprised at all. Does anybody remember Godfather III. The movie fictionally re-enacted the assassination theory concerning the sudden death of Pope John Paul I f/k/a Cardinal Albion Luciani who died in his sleep at the age of 65, after only 33 days in office. What they did not tell you was that this Pope wanted to visit Jerusalem and address the Israel Knesset among his initial projects. Thank you Debbie for remaining vigilant in presenting the truth about this new Pope.

Paul Y on March 15, 2013 at 10:49 am

    @Paul Y–

    And now, we’re down to conspiracy theories. Wouldn’t it have been easier to just not have voted him in–in the first place–rather than kill him?

    Red Ryder on March 15, 2013 at 11:00 am

Learn to protect yourselves in armed and unarmed combat.

Pray Hard on March 15, 2013 at 12:00 pm

These guys are simply too old to change anything. They couldn’t change if they wanted to. I mean, one foot in the grave and another on a banana peel. I’m not defending them, just saying that to expect anything sane or progressive out of them is just trick-f’ing our own minds. Now, maybe an openly gay Pope with a good lookin’ boyfriend or a straight Don Juan Pope with a constant stream of cutie hookers in and out of the Vatican, both in their thirties, who’d make the tabloids every day … something might change … if they’d read Debbie.

Pray Hard on March 15, 2013 at 12:20 pm

Well, the veritable plethora of Comments submitted by so many readers has left me with a crass capitalistic set of questions I hope Mr. Grant would address:

1. If, as it is beginning to be more plausible, what will happen to the VATICAN LIBRARY / ARCHIVES if Islamists overrun Rome?

2. Same question for the LOUVRE in Paris?

DEBBIE – PLEASE ALLOW MY LINK BELOW:

http://www.sfsite.com/~silverag/canticle.html

Please note the name of the Priest / Monk….. “FRANCIS”

St Malchy’s predictions are quite interesting as well as the novel, WINDSWEPT HOUSE, by Rev Malachi Martin (1998)

Norman: Perhaps it is not a question of which Religion will win, but rather which ones WILL MERGE. I have a scarey feeling that Jews and Judaism will find they have been dealt the “Dead Man’s Hand”.

Dennis on March 15, 2013 at 12:48 pm

This marxist commie pope is the last one. Best prepare for the coming armagedon people!

MRobs on March 15, 2013 at 3:05 pm

I feel the Catholic church was infiltrated several scores ago by weak Communists and pacifists. As an anecdote, I first learned; “Thou shall not murder.” In the late ’80’s, that commandment was changed to; “Thou shall not kill.” A vast immense difference no?
As an adult, and conducting training and operations with the G’Vati (hope I spelled that correctly), I spent a day or so in the Old City and all of it’s history. One learns, and gets the idea, that they (we) have been lied to with regards to factual history of/in the “Holy Land.”
I believe the Catholic church-and Christianity in general-has allowed/permitted the pacifistic view/slant that “we” must “…turn and offer the other cheek.” It does NOT mean stand there and take it. The parable and context of that day associated withthat cliche means one still has the God given right/rite of self-defense. Makes one wonder if this bullshiite has been going on since Daniel.
I pray for my church, and hope “we” can truly reconcile and return to it’s foundation(s). If the Volvo Catholics and “newage” “American Catholics” do not like/believe in the Roman church- leave.
The “Jerusalem” crosses etched into the stair wells of the Holy Seplecure weren’t scrawld there for homosexual “marriage,” “liberation theology,” or “go along to get along.”
God bless this mess.

ick_Boy on March 16, 2013 at 9:50 am

    oops, left off the “S.”

    Sick_Boy on March 16, 2013 at 9:53 am

    @Sick Boy–

    The tide is turning in the Church, thank God. The liberals are gone forever, with the destruction wrought by the Lavender Mafia as their legacy.

    Moreover, the 2011 change in the liturgy text is the first step of walking back from some of the worst “reforms” of Vatican II.

    Red Ryder on March 16, 2013 at 11:50 am

      RR, this is now the second time I have asked you to respond to a series of points I have made. How do you explain your failure to do so?

      In your latest reply, to sick boy, you again focus on the gayz. This reminds me of how the gayz keep focusing on the Catholic Church rather than on Islam.

      Since you kept harping on the Catholicism of old, I was reminded of the comment by Machiavelli regarding Pope Alexander and his son Cesar Borgia. Wait!, a Catholic colleague of mine said. His son?! Yes indeed. Borgia was begot when old dad was a bishop. That didn’t seem to affect Alexander’s career trajectory, however, or the continuation of the Church.

      Sexual shenanigans are not the cause of the modern deterioration of the Catholic Church. There have always been such shenanigans. Nor, frankly, can I see how Vatican II was the cause. In both Argentina and in Nazi Germany the Church has suffered for its being in bed with killers. Vatican II was a response to that. (By the way, since you don’t like V2, may I assume you support the deicide charge against Jews and recommend their persecution today?)

      Maybe the problems of the Catholic Church derive from its failure to promote the Good in any meaningful way that is discernible to a potential church goer. It does not even protect it flock against the major threat of Islam.

      Finally, like some rabbis, you are inclined to blame individual sinfulness for a drop in observance. Perhaps though–just thinking out loud here–observance has dropped because of inadequacies of the messenger.

      skzion on March 16, 2013 at 8:54 pm

      The liturgical reformation is a longtime coming. However, I do NOT support laypersons handling ANY of the sacraments. Nor, do I support/endorse the way Judaism was treated by the church period. Professing faith is one thing, malicious discremination is another thing all together.
      Funny thing, “all” of the people along the Italian, Sicilian, and Spanish coast of the Meddeterraenean (sp?) seem to forget where their complexion originates from- it “ain’t” from sun and fun; Ishmail’s spawn.
      Bulldoze al Aqsa.

      Sick_Boy on March 17, 2013 at 5:49 pm

The damning documents that show new Pope DID betray tortured priests to the junta

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2294580/Special-report-The-damning-documents-new-Pope-DID-betray-tortured-priests-junta.html#ixzz2NlwvpCk9

Jan on March 19, 2013 at 9:20 am

Debbie, please leave the pope out of this. He is a source of pride for Italians in the Americas and you have zero proof he is supporting Islam. Pope Francis just doesn’t want conflict. Some opinions can not be voiced openly, especially when you are pope. Also, the Argentinians are proud of their faith, but many young people are just not going to Church every Sunday. Babies are still baptized and people are still receiving the sacraments. Please do more research. I know you have written better articles on Catholics in the past, but this one is just uncalled for.

E on April 25, 2013 at 2:16 am

Finally, why don’t you mention that the people in the picture with Pope Benedict are Christian Palestinians not Muslims?

E on April 25, 2013 at 2:21 am

Every Muslim is a preacher….so war is on individual level

There is death penalty for leaving Islam…for homosexualty ..for pork..for alcohal…

Every Muslim child is taught Islamic practices the day he is born…

Every other religion is infidel for them…and every Muslim is supposed to convert non Muslims to Islam…
And praying is compulsory …
Sadly…this makes them invincible…
Until unless Christians adopt the above mentioned methods , they are going to be annihilated…

judd on June 27, 2014 at 5:32 am

Ricky,

Nowhere did Debbie write Pope Francis isn’t a decent man and that he wants every one – Christian and non-Christian to live a life worthy of our Father In Heaven.

That isn’t the real issue! The real issue is the Pope and the Church have given up on challenging and competing with Islam and its losing the spiritual arms race. Its not even on the field.

And this is a powerful institution with 1.2 billion followers. Islam is trailing behind by a slight margin. Guess which way the future is trending.

As Debbie likes to say often on this site, facts are stubborn things. Deal with them!

NormanF on March 14, 2013 at 7:34 pm

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